Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Am 19.04.2014 01:53, Kay Schenk wrote: > Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted > things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of Linux, > or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. > Hi, 2 reasons why someone like me may want stick with LibreOffice on Linux: Show stopper since OOo 3.2, fixed in LO 3.4: > https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121312 (Linux/JDBC/Base Extension destroying all Calc charts on Linux: > https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124470 (Report Builder Greetings, Andreas Säger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: > * An interesting academic study would be to evaluate the effect Google has > had in popularizing open standard formats, like ODF, which for > unconscionably long it referred to as "openoffice" format, as well as in > popularizing Linux, albeit sans any prominent community engagement > (Android). My guess is that the effect has been: who cares, represented by, > "I just want it to work!" which of course is what we all want, especially > those of us really very interested in open standard formats. > 1. You mean Google Docs, that doesn't support ODF and forces users to convert documents back and forth?. https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/docs/S6IkdnuH91E 2nd, Android is not Gnu/Linux FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On 13 May 2014, at 08:04, Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: > >> * An interesting academic study would be to evaluate the effect Google has >> had in popularizing open standard formats, like ODF, which for >> unconscionably long it referred to as "openoffice" format, as well as in >> popularizing Linux, albeit sans any prominent community engagement >> (Android). My guess is that the effect has been: who cares, represented by, >> "I just want it to work!" which of course is what we all want, especially >> those of us really very interested in open standard formats. >> > > 1. You mean Google Docs, that doesn't support ODF and forces users to > convert documents back and forth?. > https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/docs/S6IkdnuH91E I haven't checked the latest iteration of Google Docs. At one point—and I write this prior to checking—one of the options to save was "OpenOffice Format" (maybe they didn't include capitals). I was able to open and save as ODT (or other ODF files, but I didn't try them all). This was early in Google Docs' life. I'll check out the latest iteration, but I have no reason to doubt you; I just am curious as to what a Mac OS X user can expect to experience, even using Chrome but not only. > > 2nd, Android is not Gnu/Linux Indeed it is not GNU/Linux. It is generally regard, however, as "… an operating system based on the Linux kernel with a user interface".* But then I never said it was based on GNU/Linux. (I have issues with Wikipedia all the time but we can provisionally accept their language here as acceptable, yes? This does not mean that Android is "free" as accepted by FSF, which of course also has had issues with Linux itself. I mean GNU/Linux. ;-) > > FC > -- > During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary > act > Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto > Revolucionario > - George Orwell * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system) cheers, Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Alexandro Colorado wrote: Users shouldn't need to uninstall LibreOffice just like Windows users dont need to uninstall Microsoft Office to try OpenOffice. I thought this issue was solved. It is a packaging issue. So it varies from distribution to distribution. The official packages, last time I checked, did not conflict. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
> > On 4/21/14, Rory O'Farrell wrote: >> On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 03:35:15 -0700 >> Jose R R wrote: >> >>> Niltze- >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Hagar Delest >>> wrote: >>> > Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : >>> > >>> >> Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the >>> >> twisted >>> >> things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of >>> >> Linux, >>> >> or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. >>> >> >>> >> 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some >>> >> of >>> >> our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- >>> >> Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO >>> >> and >>> >> how >>> >> did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their >>> >> existing repositories. >>> >> >>> >> -- or -- >>> >> >>> >> 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, >>> >> what >>> >> Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and >>> >> why >>> >> they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, >>> >> I'm >>> >> thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. >>> >> >>> >> I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this >>> >> topic, >>> >> and >>> >> hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. >>> >> >>> >> Thoughts? >>> >> >>> > IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too >>> > buggy. >>> > So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still >>> > not >>> > available in the standard packages? >>> > >>> > As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing >>> > another >>> > application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to >>> > install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). >>> [..] >>> >>> On an initial Debian installation, if GNOME is selected, it will >>> install LO by default. >>> >>> Accordingly the burden falls on the user to remove LO: >>> >>> $ sudo su >>> $ apt-get purge libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-common >>> libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk >>> libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math >>> libreoffice-writer >> >> I have no experience with Debian as a distro, only with Debian derivatives >> such as Ubuntu. As far as I know, it is only necessary to >> sudo apt-get purge libreoffice-core >> to remove all libreoffice, before installing OpenOffice. >> >>> >>> Note, however that, once downloaded, it is not intuitive for a >>> relatively novice (i.e., Ubuntu user) to install ApacheOO since after >>> expanding its *.tar.gz file, there appears a directory: en-US (or >>> whatever the locale selected). >>> >>> The user then must become root (super user) or prefix su to install at >>> /opt/ privileged directory: >>> >>> $ sudo su >>> $ dpkg -i en-US/DEBS/*deb >>> >>> AND then still there is no link for the the user with normal >>> privileges to start up ApacheOO from the normal PATH directory >>> /usr/bin/. And thus root privilege is required again to create the >>> appropriate symlink there; the most simple one (I think) and that >>> would not be overwritten by an subsequent (accidental installation of >>> LO) would be: >>> >>> $ sudo su >>> $ cd /usr/bin >>> $ ln -s /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice apacheeoo >>> $ cd /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice >>> $ ln -s soffice.bin apacheoo.bin >>> >>> The above just creates a symbolic link required due to our use of >>> apacheoo instead of the default soffice/soffice.bin that is used by LO >>> as well. >>> >>> Now the Ubuntu user would have to create executable icons for the >>> ApacheeOO productivity apps to match the default LO that is now >>> removed. On the other hand, those of us who don't care simply start >>> ApacheOO from a shell as a normal user now: >>> >>> $ apacheoo & >>> >>> Is it obvious now -- as MS did before by preinstalling its own >>> constrained software and denying users the freedom of choice -- why >>> ApacheOO may be lacking traction on GNU/Linux? >>> >>> >>> Best Professional Regards. >>> >>> -- >>> Jose R R >>> http://www.metztli-it.com >>> - >>> NEW Apache OpenOffice 4.0.1! Download for GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Windows. >>> - >>> Daylight Saving Time in USA & Canada ends: Sunday, November 02, 2014 >>> - >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rory O'Farrell >> [...] On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > Users shouldn't need to uninstall LibreOffice jus
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Hagar Delest wrote: > Le 12/05/2014 20:53, Damjan Jovanovic a écrit : > >> For Ubuntu, please register / log into Launchpad and visit >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1131253 where you can subscribe >> for notifications and select that the bug affects you too and thus >> generate a higher bug heat, hopefully persuading packagers that AOO is >> important to package into the (universe?) repository. The bug gets 4 >> points of heat per person affected and 2 points per person subscribed >> to receive notifications, so we only need 9 more people to do this, >> for it to get > 60 points which will put it on the first page of >> "needs-packaging" bugs ordered by bug heat :). > > > Thanks! > My 2 votes added. > > Hagar Ditto! -- Jose R R http://www.metztli-it.com - NEW Apache OpenOffice 4.1.0! Download for GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Windows. - Daylight Saving Time in USA & Canada ends: Sunday, November 02, 2014 - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Le 12/05/2014 20:53, Damjan Jovanovic a écrit : For Ubuntu, please register / log into Launchpad and visit https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1131253 where you can subscribe for notifications and select that the bug affects you too and thus generate a higher bug heat, hopefully persuading packagers that AOO is important to package into the (universe?) repository. The bug gets 4 points of heat per person affected and 2 points per person subscribed to receive notifications, so we only need 9 more people to do this, for it to get > 60 points which will put it on the first page of "needs-packaging" bugs ordered by bug heat :). Thanks! My 2 votes added. Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Users shouldn't need to uninstall LibreOffice just like Windows users dont need to uninstall Microsoft Office to try OpenOffice. I thought this issue was solved. On 4/21/14, Rory O'Farrell wrote: > On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 03:35:15 -0700 > Jose R R wrote: > >> Niltze- >> >> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Hagar Delest >> wrote: >> > Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : >> > >> >> Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the >> >> twisted >> >> things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of >> >> Linux, >> >> or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. >> >> >> >> 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some >> >> of >> >> our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- >> >> Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO >> >> and >> >> how >> >> did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their >> >> existing repositories. >> >> >> >> -- or -- >> >> >> >> 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, >> >> what >> >> Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and >> >> why >> >> they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, >> >> I'm >> >> thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. >> >> >> >> I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this >> >> topic, >> >> and >> >> hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. >> >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> > IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too >> > buggy. >> > So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still >> > not >> > available in the standard packages? >> > >> > As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing >> > another >> > application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to >> > install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). >> [..] >> >> On an initial Debian installation, if GNOME is selected, it will >> install LO by default. >> >> Accordingly the burden falls on the user to remove LO: >> >> $ sudo su >> $ apt-get purge libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-common >> libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk >> libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math >> libreoffice-writer > > I have no experience with Debian as a distro, only with Debian derivatives > such as Ubuntu. As far as I know, it is only necessary to > sudo apt-get purge libreoffice-core > to remove all libreoffice, before installing OpenOffice. > >> >> Note, however that, once downloaded, it is not intuitive for a >> relatively novice (i.e., Ubuntu user) to install ApacheOO since after >> expanding its *.tar.gz file, there appears a directory: en-US (or >> whatever the locale selected). >> >> The user then must become root (super user) or prefix su to install at >> /opt/ privileged directory: >> >> $ sudo su >> $ dpkg -i en-US/DEBS/*deb >> >> AND then still there is no link for the the user with normal >> privileges to start up ApacheOO from the normal PATH directory >> /usr/bin/. And thus root privilege is required again to create the >> appropriate symlink there; the most simple one (I think) and that >> would not be overwritten by an subsequent (accidental installation of >> LO) would be: >> >> $ sudo su >> $ cd /usr/bin >> $ ln -s /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice apacheeoo >> $ cd /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice >> $ ln -s soffice.bin apacheoo.bin >> >> The above just creates a symbolic link required due to our use of >> apacheoo instead of the default soffice/soffice.bin that is used by LO >> as well. >> >> Now the Ubuntu user would have to create executable icons for the >> ApacheeOO productivity apps to match the default LO that is now >> removed. On the other hand, those of us who don't care simply start >> ApacheOO from a shell as a normal user now: >> >> $ apacheoo & >> >> Is it obvious now -- as MS did before by preinstalling its own >> constrained software and denying users the freedom of choice -- why >> ApacheOO may be lacking traction on GNU/Linux? >> >> >> Best Professional Regards. >> >> -- >> Jose R R >> http://www.metztli-it.com >> - >> NEW Apache OpenOffice 4.0.1! Download for GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Windows. >> - >> Daylight Saving Time in USA & Canada ends: Sunday, November 02, 2014 >> - >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> >> > > > -- > Rory O'Farrell > > - > To unsubscribe,
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: > > > On 04/20/2014 11:53 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: >> >> >> On 20 Apr 2014, at 14:02, Hagar Delest >> wrote: >> >>> IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is >>> too buggy. So I think that basically, we are back to the question: >>> why AOO is still not available in the standard packages? >> >> >> There are several ways of answering your question. I'll take the high >> road, and presume, for argument's sake, that the main Linux >> Distributors (the "distros") are acting in good faith and chose to >> align themselves with what they believed to be a sustainable >> community organization ca. 2011. >> >> These main distros that most in the West think of when they think of >> Linux, I'd guess, include Canonical's Ubuntu, Red Hat's Fedora >> Project, and KDE.* (I didn't check SuSE.) None includes Apache >> OpenOffice. > > > Well KDE is a window system and not a distro. It is used on a variety of > distros including openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu (Kubuntu), etc. But, your > statement is true enough that no major Linux distribution includes Apache > OpenOffice. For Ubuntu, please register / log into Launchpad and visit https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1131253 where you can subscribe for notifications and select that the bug affects you too and thus generate a higher bug heat, hopefully persuading packagers that AOO is important to package into the (universe?) repository. The bug gets 4 points of heat per person affected and 2 points per person subscribed to receive notifications, so we only need 9 more people to do this, for it to get > 60 points which will put it on the first page of "needs-packaging" bugs ordered by bug heat :). Damjan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Le 25/04/2014 19:07, Kay Schenk a écrit : I've created a wiki page to highlight some of the suggestions. PLEASE feel free to edit it as you see fit! At some point, we can link this in to an FAQ I guess -- https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Linux+@+Apache+OpenOffice Nicely put. I've added a link in the EN forum tutorial for GNU/Linux isntallation: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=50119 Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Hello, Am 21.04.2014 12:42, schrieb Rory O'Farrell:> On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 03:35:15 -0700 > Jose R R wrote: > > I have no experience with Debian as a distro, That is a problem of this discussion > only with Debian derivatives such as Ubuntu. As far as I know, it is only necessary to > sudo apt-get purge libreoffice-core > to remove all libreoffice, before installing OpenOffice. > If you install the desktop-integration of Apache OpenOffice you can start Apache OpenOffice from the start menu. Kind regards Mechtilde - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Hello, Am 21.04.2014 21:22, schrieb Hagar Delest: > Le 20/04/2014 20:53, Louis Suárez-Potts a écrit : > > But the job now is to convince distros that it's not anymore the case. > It does not mean that AOO should claim to be default suite again. But > there should be a FAIR choice given to the user. And encouraged people to do the packaging. Don't expect the distro project will do the work. We have to do it for the project. Kind reagrds Mechtilde - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: > > > On 04/23/2014 03:16 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > > On 20/04/2014 Kay Schenk wrote: > >> Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its > >> easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration. > > > > Not to diminish this thread (on the contrary, there were a number of > > good messages, insightful remarks and a very diverse participation, I'm > > finding it very inspirational so far!), but indeed it would be time to > > stop talking and start doing. > > Indeed! :) > > I will be summarizing this thread and putting it on cwiki in our > planning area just to make it easier to again find all these good ideas. > > > > > The "community repositories" solution outlined by Kay above is the > > simplest one in our case. As a project, we are able to do (and we > > actually do!) things that are much more complex than that. > > Onward and upward to learning how to build and put AOO into the > community repository at openSUSE! :) > > > > > Official support in distributions is more difficult to obtain and > > requires obeying different policies, so I see it as a second step. But a > > first, feasible, step, is to experiment with unofficial repositories > > that allow terminal-averse Linux users (they exist, it seems) to get > > OpenOffice 4.1. I'm interested in doing some work personally in this > > direction, and I've already taken some basic steps; if anyone wants to > > join the effort, please say so and we may get it done sooner! > > > > Regards, > > Andrea. > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > > -- > - > MzK > > "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." >-- Helen Keller > > I've created a wiki page to highlight some of the suggestions. PLEASE feel free to edit it as you see fit! At some point, we can link this in to an FAQ I guess -- https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Linux+@+Apache+OpenOffice -- - MzK "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On 04/23/2014 03:16 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > On 20/04/2014 Kay Schenk wrote: >> Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its >> easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration. > > Not to diminish this thread (on the contrary, there were a number of > good messages, insightful remarks and a very diverse participation, I'm > finding it very inspirational so far!), but indeed it would be time to > stop talking and start doing. Indeed! :) I will be summarizing this thread and putting it on cwiki in our planning area just to make it easier to again find all these good ideas. > > The "community repositories" solution outlined by Kay above is the > simplest one in our case. As a project, we are able to do (and we > actually do!) things that are much more complex than that. Onward and upward to learning how to build and put AOO into the community repository at openSUSE! :) > > Official support in distributions is more difficult to obtain and > requires obeying different policies, so I see it as a second step. But a > first, feasible, step, is to experiment with unofficial repositories > that allow terminal-averse Linux users (they exist, it seems) to get > OpenOffice 4.1. I'm interested in doing some work personally in this > direction, and I've already taken some basic steps; if anyone wants to > join the effort, please say so and we may get it done sooner! > > Regards, > Andrea. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > -- - MzK "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On 20/04/2014 Kay Schenk wrote: Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration. Not to diminish this thread (on the contrary, there were a number of good messages, insightful remarks and a very diverse participation, I'm finding it very inspirational so far!), but indeed it would be time to stop talking and start doing. The "community repositories" solution outlined by Kay above is the simplest one in our case. As a project, we are able to do (and we actually do!) things that are much more complex than that. Official support in distributions is more difficult to obtain and requires obeying different policies, so I see it as a second step. But a first, feasible, step, is to experiment with unofficial repositories that allow terminal-averse Linux users (they exist, it seems) to get OpenOffice 4.1. I'm interested in doing some work personally in this direction, and I've already taken some basic steps; if anyone wants to join the effort, please say so and we may get it done sooner! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On April 21, 2014 4:04:30 AM PDT, Detlef Nannen wrote: >May be it is possible to serve a AOO-Package including a Startscript. >Looking for the needed Version, asking for permission and running all >this for a easy Installation. A Job for specialists, but possible? +1 I don't remember the program, but the Ubuntu PPA is nothing more than a shell script, which downloads the current version of the software, and installs everything in the correct place, with the appropriate desktop icons. This script does not need to be changed when the program is updated. It also gives users the option of selecting the current stable version, the bleeding edge version, or the previous stable version. (The developer removed the ability to install the daily build, on the grounds that people who need this script, should not do any type of testing.) Other distro PPAs have a similar install/update script for that software. jonathon -- Your documents, your language, your way. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Le 20/04/2014 20:53, Louis Suárez-Potts a écrit : But I believe that, however loudly we hear the cry of community, what really determines things for Ubuntu and Fedora is what the sponsoring corporation wants and thinks is in its best interests, or at least those of its financial backers. Well, yes and no I would think. Yes, best interests of companies linked to distros are at stake. But no, I don't think that is what drove distros to select LibO. My understanding is that LibO team managed to convince distros that AOO would be soon dead. Remember that it was just after the donation from Oracle to ASF. Then followed almost a year of silent work for AOO. I mean very few communication was made whereas LibO released several versions. The lack of visibility was enough I think to convince distros that LibO was the best bet. But the job now is to convince distros that it's not anymore the case. It does not mean that AOO should claim to be default suite again. But there should be a FAIR choice given to the user. It's like the IE ballot on Windows: remember the screen proposing different web browsers to avoid monopolistic installation of IE? There are several free suites, since they are rather heavy (MB point of view), we can't just install 1 component (the word processor, the much used application) of each suite so that the user choose by himself. But why not propose the distros not to install anything by default and then give users a kind of ballot screen for selecting the suite? It would spare some room for the installer BTW. Mobile devices show nowadays that users won't care using command line to install something, they want an application to install easily, that's all. As long as the default application is locked by creating problems for removal, competition is biased. So back to the distros best interests, if it means better user focus/UX, then it may interest them. Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Hi, i am a User, Windows an a little Ubuntu. Every new installation (60% of our PCs runs with Ubuntu) gets AOO as the first new Installation. I am nit a Ubuntu/Linux Guru, Google helps. sudo apt-get purge libreoffice* sudo dpkg -i de/DEBS/*deb sudo dpkg -i de/DEBS/desktop-integration/*deb My Son made a script (with parameters) for this, including downloading and unzipping the AOO-File. Works fine Debian Wheezy and Ubuntu, and I think it would run with Mint. May be it is possible to serve a AOO-Package including a Startscript. Looking for the needed Version, asking for permission and running all this for a easy Installation. A Job for specialists, but possible? -- Detlef 2014-04-21 12:35 GMT+02:00 Jose R R : > Niltze- > > On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Hagar Delest > wrote: >> Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : >> >>> Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted >>> things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of >>> Linux, >>> or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. >>> >>> 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some of >>> our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- >>> Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO and >>> how >>> did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their >>> existing repositories. >>> >>> -- or -- >>> >>> 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, what >>> Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and why >>> they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, I'm >>> thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. >>> >>> I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this topic, >>> and >>> hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >> IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too >> buggy. >> So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still not >> available in the standard packages? >> >> As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing another >> application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to >> install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). > [..] > > On an initial Debian installation, if GNOME is selected, it will > install LO by default. > > Accordingly the burden falls on the user to remove LO: > > $ sudo su > $ apt-get purge libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-common > libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk > libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math > libreoffice-writer > > Note, however that, once downloaded, it is not intuitive for a > relatively novice (i.e., Ubuntu user) to install ApacheOO since after > expanding its *.tar.gz file, there appears a directory: en-US (or > whatever the locale selected). > > The user then must become root (super user) or prefix su to install at > /opt/ privileged directory: > > $ sudo su > $ dpkg -i en-US/DEBS/*deb > > AND then still there is no link for the the user with normal > privileges to start up ApacheOO from the normal PATH directory > /usr/bin/. And thus root privilege is required again to create the > appropriate symlink there; the most simple one (I think) and that > would not be overwritten by an subsequent (accidental installation of > LO) would be: > > $ sudo su > $ cd /usr/bin > $ ln -s /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice apacheeoo > $ cd /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice > $ ln -s soffice.bin apacheoo.bin > > The above just creates a symbolic link required due to our use of > apacheoo instead of the default soffice/soffice.bin that is used by LO > as well. > > Now the Ubuntu user would have to create executable icons for the > ApacheeOO productivity apps to match the default LO that is now > removed. On the other hand, those of us who don't care simply start > ApacheOO from a shell as a normal user now: > > $ apacheoo & > > Is it obvious now -- as MS did before by preinstalling its own > constrained software and denying users the freedom of choice -- why > ApacheOO may be lacking traction on GNU/Linux? > > > Best Professional Regards. > > -- > Jose R R > http://www.metztli-it.com > - > NEW Apache OpenOffice 4.0.1! Download for GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Windows. > - > Daylight Saving Time in USA & Canada ends: Sunday, November 02, 2014 > - > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscri
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 3:42 AM, Rory O'Farrell wrote: > On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 03:35:15 -0700 > Jose R R wrote: > >> Niltze- >> >> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Hagar Delest >> wrote: >> > Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : >> > >> >> Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted >> >> things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of >> >> Linux, >> >> or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. >> >> >> >> 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some of >> >> our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- >> >> Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO and >> >> how >> >> did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their >> >> existing repositories. >> >> >> >> -- or -- >> >> >> >> 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, what >> >> Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and why >> >> they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, I'm >> >> thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. >> >> >> >> I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this topic, >> >> and >> >> hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. >> >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> > IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too >> > buggy. >> > So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still >> > not >> > available in the standard packages? >> > >> > As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing another >> > application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to >> > install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). >> [..] >> >> On an initial Debian installation, if GNOME is selected, it will >> install LO by default. >> >> Accordingly the burden falls on the user to remove LO: >> >> $ sudo su >> $ apt-get purge libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-common >> libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk >> libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math >> libreoffice-writer > > I have no experience with Debian as a distro, only with Debian derivatives > such as Ubuntu. As far as I know, it is only necessary to > sudo apt-get purge libreoffice-core > to remove all libreoffice, before installing OpenOffice. > Indeed, it picks up most (if not all) of the relevant packages, I just make sure that all, and not only LO core, is *purged*. Cheers! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 03:35:15 -0700 Jose R R wrote: > Niltze- > > On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Hagar Delest > wrote: > > Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : > > > >> Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted > >> things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of > >> Linux, > >> or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. > >> > >> 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some of > >> our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- > >> Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO and > >> how > >> did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their > >> existing repositories. > >> > >> -- or -- > >> > >> 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, what > >> Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and why > >> they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, I'm > >> thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. > >> > >> I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this topic, > >> and > >> hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> > > IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too > > buggy. > > So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still not > > available in the standard packages? > > > > As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing another > > application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to > > install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). > [..] > > On an initial Debian installation, if GNOME is selected, it will > install LO by default. > > Accordingly the burden falls on the user to remove LO: > > $ sudo su > $ apt-get purge libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-common > libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk > libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math > libreoffice-writer I have no experience with Debian as a distro, only with Debian derivatives such as Ubuntu. As far as I know, it is only necessary to sudo apt-get purge libreoffice-core to remove all libreoffice, before installing OpenOffice. > > Note, however that, once downloaded, it is not intuitive for a > relatively novice (i.e., Ubuntu user) to install ApacheOO since after > expanding its *.tar.gz file, there appears a directory: en-US (or > whatever the locale selected). > > The user then must become root (super user) or prefix su to install at > /opt/ privileged directory: > > $ sudo su > $ dpkg -i en-US/DEBS/*deb > > AND then still there is no link for the the user with normal > privileges to start up ApacheOO from the normal PATH directory > /usr/bin/. And thus root privilege is required again to create the > appropriate symlink there; the most simple one (I think) and that > would not be overwritten by an subsequent (accidental installation of > LO) would be: > > $ sudo su > $ cd /usr/bin > $ ln -s /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice apacheeoo > $ cd /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice > $ ln -s soffice.bin apacheoo.bin > > The above just creates a symbolic link required due to our use of > apacheoo instead of the default soffice/soffice.bin that is used by LO > as well. > > Now the Ubuntu user would have to create executable icons for the > ApacheeOO productivity apps to match the default LO that is now > removed. On the other hand, those of us who don't care simply start > ApacheOO from a shell as a normal user now: > > $ apacheoo & > > Is it obvious now -- as MS did before by preinstalling its own > constrained software and denying users the freedom of choice -- why > ApacheOO may be lacking traction on GNU/Linux? > > > Best Professional Regards. > > -- > Jose R R > http://www.metztli-it.com > - > NEW Apache OpenOffice 4.0.1! Download for GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Windows. > - > Daylight Saving Time in USA & Canada ends: Sunday, November 02, 2014 > - > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- Rory O'Farrell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Niltze- On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Hagar Delest wrote: > Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : > >> Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted >> things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of >> Linux, >> or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. >> >> 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some of >> our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- >> Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO and >> how >> did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their >> existing repositories. >> >> -- or -- >> >> 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, what >> Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and why >> they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, I'm >> thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. >> >> I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this topic, >> and >> hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. >> >> Thoughts? >> > IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too > buggy. > So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still not > available in the standard packages? > > As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing another > application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to > install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). [..] On an initial Debian installation, if GNOME is selected, it will install LO by default. Accordingly the burden falls on the user to remove LO: $ sudo su $ apt-get purge libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-common libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math libreoffice-writer Note, however that, once downloaded, it is not intuitive for a relatively novice (i.e., Ubuntu user) to install ApacheOO since after expanding its *.tar.gz file, there appears a directory: en-US (or whatever the locale selected). The user then must become root (super user) or prefix su to install at /opt/ privileged directory: $ sudo su $ dpkg -i en-US/DEBS/*deb AND then still there is no link for the the user with normal privileges to start up ApacheOO from the normal PATH directory /usr/bin/. And thus root privilege is required again to create the appropriate symlink there; the most simple one (I think) and that would not be overwritten by an subsequent (accidental installation of LO) would be: $ sudo su $ cd /usr/bin $ ln -s /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice apacheeoo $ cd /opt/openoffice4/program/soffice $ ln -s soffice.bin apacheoo.bin The above just creates a symbolic link required due to our use of apacheoo instead of the default soffice/soffice.bin that is used by LO as well. Now the Ubuntu user would have to create executable icons for the ApacheeOO productivity apps to match the default LO that is now removed. On the other hand, those of us who don't care simply start ApacheOO from a shell as a normal user now: $ apacheoo & Is it obvious now -- as MS did before by preinstalling its own constrained software and denying users the freedom of choice -- why ApacheOO may be lacking traction on GNU/Linux? Best Professional Regards. -- Jose R R http://www.metztli-it.com - NEW Apache OpenOffice 4.0.1! Download for GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Windows. - Daylight Saving Time in USA & Canada ends: Sunday, November 02, 2014 - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Hello, Am 20.04.2014 21:41, schrieb Kay Schenk: > > > On 04/20/2014 11:53 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: >> >> On 20 Apr 2014, at 14:02, Hagar Delest >> wrote: > ...well this is an interesting statement. > > Getting back to both this and Hagar's response. If we see that getting > AOO back into distro repositories is our job, then that's that. FACK the main reason for me is the lack of people doing it. If we find some people with the essential skills I will encourage them. My preferred distribution is Debian > > Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its > easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration. > Kind regards Mechtilde - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Top post….
I propose that in addition to reaching out to distros we also look to
enterprise installations; and that we also work closely (if possible) with the
Linux Foundation.
As to enterprise Linux distributions…. Besides RHEL, there is Univention's
Univention Corporate Server. I mention them for a couple of reasons. One
relates to disclosure obligations: I may be consulting for them. Another, more
powerful, is that they are affiliated with the Germany-vased Open Source
Business Association (OSBA) and have are very desirous in getting ODF editors
to work with MSFT office suite files. ("ODF editors is cryptospeak for LO and
AOO.)
Enterprises also offer some benefits that focusing on the quicksilver consumer
market can't equal. It promises large scale adoption. It also gives us some
credibility that would be needed to be taken more seriously, I daresay, in
Japan and China. Else, there, we may only be regarded as highly as our primary
big corporate sponsors choose.
-louis
On 20 Apr 2014, at 16:41, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> I agree there should be a more concerted efforts to add desktop
> specific features (not only distros). Meaning a better integration
> with KDE and Gnome notification system and others. Having libraries
> that can route messages to the Kdialog (from the libnotify library)
> and Gnome's Notifications.
>
> The specification is well documented on freedesktop AFAIK.
>
> On 4/20/14, Kay Schenk wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 04/20/2014 11:53 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>>>
>>> On 20 Apr 2014, at 14:02, Hagar Delest
>>> wrote:
>>>
IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is
too buggy. So I think that basically, we are back to the question:
why AOO is still not available in the standard packages?
>>>
>>> There are several ways of answering your question. I'll take the high
>>> road, and presume, for argument's sake, that the main Linux
>>> Distributors (the "distros") are acting in good faith and chose to
>>> align themselves with what they believed to be a sustainable
>>> community organization ca. 2011.
>>>
>>> These main distros that most in the West think of when they think of
>>> Linux, I'd guess, include Canonical's Ubuntu, Red Hat's Fedora
>>> Project, and KDE.* (I didn't check SuSE.) None includes Apache
>>> OpenOffice.
>>
>> Well KDE is a window system and not a distro. It is used on a variety of
>> distros including openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu (Kubuntu), etc. But, your
>> statement is true enough that no major Linux distribution includes
>> Apache OpenOffice.
>>
>> (KDE's office apps,
>>> http://www.kde.org/applications/office/, differ from the seemingly
>>> more advanced—I don't know—Calligra Suite,
>>> http://www.calligra-suite.org/, which just released 2.8.2 16 April;
>>> there was a fork a few years ago.) Fedora Project office
>>> applications, https://fedoraproject.org/en/features/#office, include
>>> LibreOffice, as do Ubuntu's. Getting Apache OpenOffice and replacing
>>> the default suite is, to my mind, more difficult than it ought to be.
>>> (When i first started using Linux, it was KDE and I was excited that
>>> I could select the packages I wanted installed and that it was
>>> actually really easy to do so. About the only equivalent I can think
>>> of now that recaptures that sort of ease and also excitement, is the
>>> process for installing packages on jailbroken iOS devices.)
>>>
>>> Once upon a time—before the LibreOffice fork, all save KDE included
>>> OpenOffice.org axiomatically. Sun's, and then Oracle's missteps and
>>> the LO fork put in place a strategic realignment. It's main
>>> effect—Linux users are the losers, if only because "choice" and "free
>>> markets" have been deprecated--has probably not been the primary
>>> advocates' wished-for outcome.
>> At least, I hope not.
>>>
>>> Getting the primary distros back to supporting choice and free
>>> markets for users would be nice. But I believe that, however loudly
>>> we hear the cry of community, what really determines things for
>>> Ubuntu and Fedora is what the sponsoring corporation wants and thinks
>>> is in its best interests, or at least those of its financial
>>> backers.
>>
>> ...well this is an interesting statement.
>>
>> Getting back to both this and Hagar's response. If we see that getting
>> AOO back into distro repositories is our job, then that's that.
>>
>> Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its
>> easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration.
>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I maintained a program of reaching out to Linux distros around
>>> the world to include OO. These included (but were not limited to) the
>>> very big and popular ones in Russia, Turkey (Pardus), Africa, Japan
>>> and of course China. (I later also tried with South East Asian Linux
>>> efforts. What mattered hugely was having localized builds of OO; that
>>> made a telling difference in India, for instance, but also Brazil.) I
>>> ha
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
I agree there should be a more concerted efforts to add desktop specific features (not only distros). Meaning a better integration with KDE and Gnome notification system and others. Having libraries that can route messages to the Kdialog (from the libnotify library) and Gnome's Notifications. The specification is well documented on freedesktop AFAIK. On 4/20/14, Kay Schenk wrote: > > > On 04/20/2014 11:53 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: >> >> On 20 Apr 2014, at 14:02, Hagar Delest >> wrote: >> >>> IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is >>> too buggy. So I think that basically, we are back to the question: >>> why AOO is still not available in the standard packages? >> >> There are several ways of answering your question. I'll take the high >> road, and presume, for argument's sake, that the main Linux >> Distributors (the "distros") are acting in good faith and chose to >> align themselves with what they believed to be a sustainable >> community organization ca. 2011. >> >> These main distros that most in the West think of when they think of >> Linux, I'd guess, include Canonical's Ubuntu, Red Hat's Fedora >> Project, and KDE.* (I didn't check SuSE.) None includes Apache >> OpenOffice. > > Well KDE is a window system and not a distro. It is used on a variety of > distros including openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu (Kubuntu), etc. But, your > statement is true enough that no major Linux distribution includes > Apache OpenOffice. > > (KDE's office apps, >> http://www.kde.org/applications/office/, differ from the seemingly >> more advanced—I don't know—Calligra Suite, >> http://www.calligra-suite.org/, which just released 2.8.2 16 April; >> there was a fork a few years ago.) Fedora Project office >> applications, https://fedoraproject.org/en/features/#office, include >> LibreOffice, as do Ubuntu's. Getting Apache OpenOffice and replacing >> the default suite is, to my mind, more difficult than it ought to be. >> (When i first started using Linux, it was KDE and I was excited that >> I could select the packages I wanted installed and that it was >> actually really easy to do so. About the only equivalent I can think >> of now that recaptures that sort of ease and also excitement, is the >> process for installing packages on jailbroken iOS devices.) >> >> Once upon a time—before the LibreOffice fork, all save KDE included >> OpenOffice.org axiomatically. Sun's, and then Oracle's missteps and >> the LO fork put in place a strategic realignment. It's main >> effect—Linux users are the losers, if only because "choice" and "free >> markets" have been deprecated--has probably not been the primary >> advocates' wished-for outcome. > At least, I hope not. >> >> Getting the primary distros back to supporting choice and free >> markets for users would be nice. But I believe that, however loudly >> we hear the cry of community, what really determines things for >> Ubuntu and Fedora is what the sponsoring corporation wants and thinks >> is in its best interests, or at least those of its financial >> backers. > > ...well this is an interesting statement. > > Getting back to both this and Hagar's response. If we see that getting > AOO back into distro repositories is our job, then that's that. > > Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its > easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration. > >> >> FWIW, I maintained a program of reaching out to Linux distros around >> the world to include OO. These included (but were not limited to) the >> very big and popular ones in Russia, Turkey (Pardus), Africa, Japan >> and of course China. (I later also tried with South East Asian Linux >> efforts. What mattered hugely was having localized builds of OO; that >> made a telling difference in India, for instance, but also Brazil.) I >> have no idea what these regional distros are carrying now. >> >> However, a program that would *now* reach out to Linux distros—and >> also other open source centres and repositories—would be, I think, >> useful to would be users and also us. > > In this sense, it's good that our binaries are hosted on SourceForge -- > a very well known and accessible open source repository! > > "Would-be" is not an immaterial >> consideration. It's been repeatedly estimated that in the next ten >> years billions more will start using computers. They'll be using >> versions of Linux, probably—Android. But they'll also be using >> versions of other free software for regular productivity, and that >> free productivity software could very well be a good enough ODF >> editor able to run on a variety of devices. Could even be us. >> >> cheers Louis > > Thanks for the insights. > >> >> * An interesting academic study would be to evaluate the effect >> Google has had in popularizing open standard formats, like ODF, which >> for unconscionably long it referred to as "openoffice" format, as >> well as in popularizing Linux, albeit sans any prominent community >> engagement
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On 04/20/2014 11:53 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: On 20 Apr 2014, at 14:02, Hagar Delest wrote: IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too buggy. So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still not available in the standard packages? There are several ways of answering your question. I'll take the high road, and presume, for argument's sake, that the main Linux Distributors (the "distros") are acting in good faith and chose to align themselves with what they believed to be a sustainable community organization ca. 2011. These main distros that most in the West think of when they think of Linux, I'd guess, include Canonical's Ubuntu, Red Hat's Fedora Project, and KDE.* (I didn't check SuSE.) None includes Apache OpenOffice. Well KDE is a window system and not a distro. It is used on a variety of distros including openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu (Kubuntu), etc. But, your statement is true enough that no major Linux distribution includes Apache OpenOffice. (KDE's office apps, http://www.kde.org/applications/office/, differ from the seemingly more advanced—I don't know—Calligra Suite, http://www.calligra-suite.org/, which just released 2.8.2 16 April; there was a fork a few years ago.) Fedora Project office applications, https://fedoraproject.org/en/features/#office, include LibreOffice, as do Ubuntu's. Getting Apache OpenOffice and replacing the default suite is, to my mind, more difficult than it ought to be. (When i first started using Linux, it was KDE and I was excited that I could select the packages I wanted installed and that it was actually really easy to do so. About the only equivalent I can think of now that recaptures that sort of ease and also excitement, is the process for installing packages on jailbroken iOS devices.) Once upon a time—before the LibreOffice fork, all save KDE included OpenOffice.org axiomatically. Sun's, and then Oracle's missteps and the LO fork put in place a strategic realignment. It's main effect—Linux users are the losers, if only because "choice" and "free markets" have been deprecated--has probably not been the primary advocates' wished-for outcome. At least, I hope not. Getting the primary distros back to supporting choice and free markets for users would be nice. But I believe that, however loudly we hear the cry of community, what really determines things for Ubuntu and Fedora is what the sponsoring corporation wants and thinks is in its best interests, or at least those of its financial backers. ...well this is an interesting statement. Getting back to both this and Hagar's response. If we see that getting AOO back into distro repositories is our job, then that's that. Many Linux distros maintain "community" repositories and perhaps its easiest to use that sort of mechanism for reintegration. FWIW, I maintained a program of reaching out to Linux distros around the world to include OO. These included (but were not limited to) the very big and popular ones in Russia, Turkey (Pardus), Africa, Japan and of course China. (I later also tried with South East Asian Linux efforts. What mattered hugely was having localized builds of OO; that made a telling difference in India, for instance, but also Brazil.) I have no idea what these regional distros are carrying now. However, a program that would *now* reach out to Linux distros—and also other open source centres and repositories—would be, I think, useful to would be users and also us. In this sense, it's good that our binaries are hosted on SourceForge -- a very well known and accessible open source repository! "Would-be" is not an immaterial consideration. It's been repeatedly estimated that in the next ten years billions more will start using computers. They'll be using versions of Linux, probably—Android. But they'll also be using versions of other free software for regular productivity, and that free productivity software could very well be a good enough ODF editor able to run on a variety of devices. Could even be us. cheers Louis Thanks for the insights. * An interesting academic study would be to evaluate the effect Google has had in popularizing open standard formats, like ODF, which for unconscionably long it referred to as "openoffice" format, as well as in popularizing Linux, albeit sans any prominent community engagement (Android). My guess is that the effect has been: who cares, represented by, "I just want it to work!" which of course is what we all want, especially those of us really very interested in open standard formats. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller ---
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
On 20 Apr 2014, at 14:02, Hagar Delest wrote: > IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too buggy. > So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still not > available in the standard packages? There are several ways of answering your question. I'll take the high road, and presume, for argument's sake, that the main Linux Distributors (the "distros") are acting in good faith and chose to align themselves with what they believed to be a sustainable community organization ca. 2011. These main distros that most in the West think of when they think of Linux, I'd guess, include Canonical's Ubuntu, Red Hat's Fedora Project, and KDE.* (I didn't check SuSE.) None includes Apache OpenOffice. (KDE's office apps, http://www.kde.org/applications/office/, differ from the seemingly more advanced—I don't know—Calligra Suite, http://www.calligra-suite.org/, which just released 2.8.2 16 April; there was a fork a few years ago.) Fedora Project office applications, https://fedoraproject.org/en/features/#office, include LibreOffice, as do Ubuntu's. Getting Apache OpenOffice and replacing the default suite is, to my mind, more difficult than it ought to be. (When i first started using Linux, it was KDE and I was excited that I could select the packages I wanted installed and that it was actually really easy to do so. About the only equivalent I can think of now that recaptures that sort of ease and also excitement, is the process for installing packages on jailbroken iOS devices.) Once upon a time—before the LibreOffice fork, all save KDE included OpenOffice.org axiomatically. Sun's, and then Oracle's missteps and the LO fork put in place a strategic realignment. It's main effect—Linux users are the losers, if only because "choice" and "free markets" have been deprecated--has probably not been the primary advocates' wished-for outcome. At least, I hope not. Getting the primary distros back to supporting choice and free markets for users would be nice. But I believe that, however loudly we hear the cry of community, what really determines things for Ubuntu and Fedora is what the sponsoring corporation wants and thinks is in its best interests, or at least those of its financial backers. FWIW, I maintained a program of reaching out to Linux distros around the world to include OO. These included (but were not limited to) the very big and popular ones in Russia, Turkey (Pardus), Africa, Japan and of course China. (I later also tried with South East Asian Linux efforts. What mattered hugely was having localized builds of OO; that made a telling difference in India, for instance, but also Brazil.) I have no idea what these regional distros are carrying now. However, a program that would *now* reach out to Linux distros—and also other open source centres and repositories—would be, I think, useful to would be users and also us. "Would-be" is not an immaterial consideration. It's been repeatedly estimated that in the next ten years billions more will start using computers. They'll be using versions of Linux, probably—Android. But they'll also be using versions of other free software for regular productivity, and that free productivity software could very well be a good enough ODF editor able to run on a variety of devices. Could even be us. cheers Louis * An interesting academic study would be to evaluate the effect Google has had in popularizing open standard formats, like ODF, which for unconscionably long it referred to as "openoffice" format, as well as in popularizing Linux, albeit sans any prominent community engagement (Android). My guess is that the effect has been: who cares, represented by, "I just want it to work!" which of course is what we all want, especially those of us really very interested in open standard formats. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Le 19/04/2014 01:53, Kay Schenk a écrit : Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of Linux, or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some of our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO and how did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their existing repositories. -- or -- 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, what Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and why they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, I'm thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this topic, and hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. Thoughts? IMHO, most users just take what's provided by default. Unless it is too buggy. So I think that basically, we are back to the question: why AOO is still not available in the standard packages? As long as it is not easily available, users won't bother removing another application to install AOO. Especially if it involves command line (to install but also sometimes to remove the default suite). So I don't really see the point for first question. And second question is the project's job, not sure any press would be interested in that. I've not followed all the post of the dev list from some time but I don't remember any discussion about that for a long time ago. What do need the distros and have we the manpower to do that? Once we can make sure that we can do it, let's talk about the technical problem with the distros (who can use soffice). Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
[DISCUSS] possible blog topic -- AOO and Linux: a marriage made in heaven! :)
Ok, maybe the subject is bit melodramatic but after some of the twisted things we read about, basically how non-supportive either AOO is of Linux, or Linux is non-supportive of AOO, here's what I'm thinking. 1) We do a blog whose main subject is AOO and Linux and interview some of our Linux volunteers/users (hopefully a nice dstro cross section -- Fedora, Ubuntu. openSUSE, Mint?) and ask them why they're using AOO and how did they find the installation given that it isn't available in their existing repositories. -- or -- 2) We do a Linux centered blog on what support we provide for Linux, what Linux packages AOO provides wtih additional distribution details, and why they're not in repositories for distributions. On the latter point, I'm thinking talk about whose job this is, etc. I think we really should do something a bit more visible on this topic, and hopefully some of the open source press can pick it up. Thoughts? -- - MzK "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller
