Re: [dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
André Schnabel wrote: > >well, I guess matters are a bit more complicated here. From past > >years, it was quite customary to pay travel & accomodation for > >volunteer contributors; in fact the conference submission site > >mentioned as much. > So we seem to have different memories, what was "customary". As I > remember, last years conference was the first one to have a very > generous budget for travel & accomodation. This was explicitly > mentioned by the main sponsor when the application was sent in. The > years before, the reimbursements were much lower and always bound to > "active community members who really need the reimbursements". > But my memory might fail, as I never got full reimbursements for any > of the conferences I attended. > Hi Andre, nah, your memory seems correct, that's what I remember, too. But I thought the amount was kind of adjusted to the actual need; anyway, was not actually involved in such stuff, so you will know better. > Most of the time I payed the full costs myself. (Maybe this makes > me one of the evil stupid, who find OOo Conferences interesting > enough to go there on their own risk and costs :) ). > Oh, count me in with the stupids, too - though I guess there's likely a difference between normal attendance, and speakers (and CC members, FWIW). ;) > >I guess the ones not being timely in this case were the people > >deciding/announcing on the reimbursements. Travel/accomodation > >usually gets noticeable more expensive even 6 weeks before ... > > > > Agreed - final rules for reimbursements were given very late. But > this does not mean, that you can expect to get reimbursements, as > long as no one told something different. Still I think, it is only > honest to say "I'll join the conference only if I get the > reimbursements". This would help to mak decisions and put some > pressure on the conference team. > Yeah; past years IIRC had this mentioned on the CfP. > There is indeed another problem for the Conference Team: OOoCon > never had any budget assigned form the OOo project. We used to plan > the Conferences as self-sustaining (means every cost related to the > conference needs to be backed by dedicated sponsoring). You might > imagine, that it was harder to find sponsors this year than any > other before. > I definitely believe that. But this also cuts the other way around, means community contributors may be more cautious with spending. > Budgeting is actually a task of the council - so > anybody who is not fine with this, should raise this to the council. > Or - much better - apply for a council seat. You'll get the next > chance some weeks after the Conference ;) > Noted. ;) Cheers, -- Thorsten pgpxQGvhrRu1B.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
Hi, Thorsten Behrens schrieb: Hi Andre, well, I guess matters are a bit more complicated here. From past years, it was quite customary to pay travel & accomodation for volunteer contributors; in fact the conference submission site mentioned as much. So we seem to have different memories, what was "customary". As I remember, last years conference was the first one to have a very generous budget for travel & accomodation. This was explicitly mentioned by the main sponsor when the application was sent in. The years before, the reimbursements were much lower and always bound to "active community members who really need the reimbursements". But my memory might fail, as I never got full reimbursements for any of the conferences I attended. Most of the time I payed the full costs myself. (Maybe this makes me one of the evil stupid, who find OOo Conferences interesting enough to go there on their own risk and costs :) ). In preparation of the conference, you often complained, that the education project did not get enough attention. So - now the project got attention, the project lead got a session, people maybe prepared to have some chats with the education lead ... and now exactly this project lead find, ha cannot attent, because he was to late with looking for imburesements? I guess the ones not being timely in this case were the people deciding/announcing on the reimbursements. Travel/accomodation usually gets noticeable more expensive even 6 weeks before ... Agreed - final rules for reimbursements were given very late. But this does not mean, that you can expect to get reimbursements, as long as no one told something different. Still I think, it is only honest to say "I'll join the conference only if I get the reimbursements". This would help to mak decisions and put some pressure on the conference team. There is indeed another problem for the Conference Team: OOoCon never had any budget assigned form the OOo project. We used to plan the Conferences as self-sustaining (means every cost related to the conference needs to be backed by dedicated sponsoring). You might imagine, that it was harder to find sponsors this year than any other before. Budgeting is actually a task of the council - so anybody who is not fine with this, should raise this to the council. Or - much better - apply for a council seat. You'll get the next chance some weeks after the Conference ;) Best, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
André Schnabel wrote:
> > In fact, it was -probably- already too late, and I should have posted
> > before (too busy, my fault). Since, I verified yesterday : the
> > EducOOo (our non profit association) received less than 300 euros.
> > The fact is, the npa received not enough to help me, so my
> > participation is canceled.
> >
> > That's completely normal.
>
> Maybe to you - to me it seems rather unfair to many of the other
> people who apllied for a slot.
>
> If your participation is bound to some restrictions, you could have
> stated this much earlier. Remember that you even could have applied
> for imbursements here at the Ooo project (from what I read, you did not).
>
Hi Andre,
well, I guess matters are a bit more complicated here. From past
years, it was quite customary to pay travel & accomodation for
volunteer contributors; in fact the conference submission site
mentioned as much. The mail announcing the actual _specifics_ of the
bursaries went out to the pleads list on Oct. 9th ("[project leads]
OOoCon 2009 Bursaries"), so I guess Eric attempting to raise
additional funds after that for 11 days & then warning publicly that
he won't come was quite timely.
> In preparation of the conference, you often complained, that the
> education project did not get enough attention. So - now the project got
> attention, the project lead got a session, people maybe prepared to
> have some chats with the education lead ... and now exactly this project
> lead find, ha cannot attent, because he was to late with looking for
> imburesements?
>
I guess the ones not being timely in this case were the people
deciding/announcing on the reimbursements. Travel/accomodation
usually gets noticeable more expensive even 6 weeks before ...
Cheers,
-- Thorsten
pgpOdfm6u6y4Y.pgp
Description: PGP signature
[dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
Andre Schnabel a écrit : Hi Eric, Hi Andre, Von: eric b In fact, it was -probably- already too late, and I should have posted before (too busy, my fault). Since, I verified yesterday : the EducOOo (our non profit association) received less than 300 euros. The fact is, the npa received not enough to help me, so my participation is canceled. That's completely normal. Maybe to you - to me it seems rather unfair to many of the other people who apllied for a slot. I proposed to people who had no correct slot to replace me already, like the students who participated to the go-oo Google Summer of Code: things were unclear for them until very recently. Now, please ask them whether it looks unfair to replace me ;-) If your participation is bound to some restrictions, you could have stated this much earlier. First, any proposal must respect a deadline, and you often have to send the proposal before the time to book planes/hotels. This is true every year (due to fly reservation system), for all the conferences I participate(d). In the same time (submitting the proposals), I started the discussion with several people, but finally nobody confirmed the promises. Last, we (EducOO.org) created a Paypal account at mid september, but the donation never reached the expected level. That's the point. Remember that you even could have applied for imbursements here at the Ooo project (from what I read, you did not). First, since my request for attending FOSS.in last year was refused (while we had one conf and one big workout accepted !), nor received any encouragment, I decided the FOSDEM would be the last time I ask something to the project. That's even the reason why the association was created: become independant from that. For memory, my proposal, was about do the first step with India and meet young devs face to face for OpenOffice.org future. The result was: not accepted, but nothing done instead, and the money never used. Second, well ... 300 euros (including 2 x50 euros for nights) does not really cover the price, for most of the people concerned. This is not what I expect of such a projet like OpenOffice.org. the project lead got a session, people maybe prepared to have some chats with the education lead ... and now exactly this project lead find, ha cannot attent, because he was to late with looking for imburesements? FYI, Alexandro, Co-Lead of Education Project will attend Orvieto. Conclusion: there is no problem. Nevertheless, my absence is not that important Maybe to you. But what is with all the other people who prepaed to meet *you*? If this is really important, they can meet me on IRC, or contact us using d...@education.openoffice.org ? That's easy, really. Maybe it is not important if you are there or not. But it is (imho) imporant to communicate open and early, under what conditions you are there. Since years, I say exactly the same : regular contributors travels, should be founded by the project for important confs. Working hard for OpenOffice.org without being paid, with the goal to share the knowledge is what I do** since years. That's why I don't fear to ask. André (being a little upset) And me more, because I spent an hour to answer your agressive mail point by point ... End of Topic for me (really) Eric Bachard Lead, OpenOffice.org Education Project **For the one wondering, I listed some of my contributions (all made in my spare time), on my personnal (and chaotic) wiki page : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb -- Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
Hi Eric, Original-Nachricht > Von: eric b > > In fact, it was -probably- already too late, and I should have posted > before (too busy, my fault). Since, I verified yesterday : the > EducOOo (our non profit association) received less than 300 euros. > The fact is, the npa received not enough to help me, so my > participation is canceled. > > That's completely normal. Maybe to you - to me it seems rather unfair to many of the other people who apllied for a slot. If your participation is bound to some restrictions, you could have stated this much earlier. Remember that you even could have applied for imbursements here at the Ooo project (from what I read, you did not). In preparation of the conference, you often complained, that the education project did not get enough attention. So - now the project got attention, the project lead got a session, people maybe prepared to have some chats with the education lead ... and now exactly this project lead find, ha cannot attent, because he was to late with looking for imburesements? ... > > Nevertheless, my absence is not that important Maybe to you. But what is with all the other people who prepaed to meet *you*? Maybe it is not important if you are there or not. But it is (imho) imporant to communicate open and early, under what conditions you are there. André (being a little upset) -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
Le 27 oct. 09 à 10:28, Davide Dozza a écrit : Eric, Hello Davide, eric.bachard ha scritto: Hi John, John McCreesh a écrit : There is still time to apply for the Euro 300 bursary if that is any help http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoCon2009_Bursaries Thanks a lot for your concern, but I won't apply. Please help other people, who certainly need more than me. from your post it seemed you needed funds for participating. Indeed. One week ago (the 20th October), on my blog, I invited people to donate, to avoid the cancelation : http://download.ooo4kids.org/en/ Donate (all funds go to the EducOOo association, dedicated to the OpenOffice.org Education Project) In fact, it was -probably- already too late, and I should have posted before (too busy, my fault). Since, I verified yesterday : the EducOOo (our non profit association) received less than 300 euros. The fact is, the npa received not enough to help me, so my participation is canceled. That's completely normal. Moreover your presentations were rather interesting. Thank you very much :-) Nevertheless, my absence is not that important : if you have questions, or whatever, you can use the d...@education.openoffice.org list, or ask us directly on IRC, and I'll be glad to answer you anything I can. It's really a pity you don't want to come. I'm not sure to well understand what you wrote -probably my bad english- but I assume I do not want to pay for contribute : more than 310 days over 365 a year counts, you can reach me on IRC, where I help students, discuss code, work on the Education Project, and do my best to contribute, and share. That's enough for me. Now, if we (the association) did not receive anything (I mean donations) in return, it simply means that what we do is wrong, or not what the people expect, and maybe it's time to stop. For the one who have the memory, it was exactly the same last year ( OOoCon 2008, Beijin), with the difference I didn't apply. Strange, nobody considered I had some important role to play (while I was doing exactly the same). Yet another reason to not consider this annulation as something important. Just sad, nothing more. At least this will make some students who will inherit of the slots happy :) End of topic for me. Regards, Eric Bachard Lead, OpenOffice.org Education Project -- qɔᴉɹə
