Re: Project Etiquette
Marnie McCormack wrote: Hi Rafi, Thanks for taking the time to write these. I think they're a good idea to have for new people. At risk of incurring your wrath - I found it them a little long, at first reading. I wonder if you'd consider a more concise version - be happy to have a shot at it if that'd be helpful and not cross making ? Please feel free, I'm not actively working on anything right now. I'll try to keep my wrath in check until I see what you produce. ;) I'd like to think we should welcome people in, tell them what they might need to know but I'm hoping we won't scare them off. What do you think ? I don't want to scare people too much. At the same time I don't want to have only a very dry list of process points that people can end up following to the letter with no real understanding of the spirit, and I think the most direct way to understand the spirit is to gain some real context in terms of the sorts of things that have and do actually happen. This may cause the length to grow a bit, but I don't think that's an issue. I would expect reading this material to be a tiny fraction of the overall time anyone who is serious is going to spend getting involved in qpid, and I think it is worthwhile time spent as it can give people a leg up. Those of us who have been around for a while have a long and complex shared history that shapes how we interact as a group, and while on the one hand it may be daunting to ask people to read the entire thing before they get involved, at the same time it puts them at a significant disadvantage not to give them any of it. --Rafael - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org
Re: Project Etiquette
2009/12/10 Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.com Marnie McCormack wrote: Hi Rafi, Thanks for taking the time to write these. I think they're a good idea to have for new people. At risk of incurring your wrath - I found it them a little long, at first reading. I wonder if you'd consider a more concise version - be happy to have a shot at it if that'd be helpful and not cross making ? Please feel free, I'm not actively working on anything right now. I'll try to keep my wrath in check until I see what you produce. ;) I'd like to think we should welcome people in, tell them what they might need to know but I'm hoping we won't scare them off. What do you think ? I don't want to scare people too much. At the same time I don't want to have only a very dry list of process points that people can end up following to the letter with no real understanding of the spirit, and I think the most direct way to understand the spirit is to gain some real context in terms of the sorts of things that have and do actually happen. This may cause the length to grow a bit, but I don't think that's an issue. I would expect reading this material to be a tiny fraction of the overall time anyone who is serious is going to spend getting involved in qpid, and I think it is worthwhile time spent as it can give people a leg up. I agree that while brevity is always desirable, we don't necessarily want this to look like a list of rules. I think that this needs to be cast as an introduction to project etiquette rather than as prescriptive law. That said the existing format does look rather overwhelming. Maybe it can be broken up, or using folding sections on a web page... or simply use less words :-) People are much more likely to read if it looks easily digestible. -- Rob Those of us who have been around for a while have a long and complex shared history that shapes how we interact as a group, and while on the one hand it may be daunting to ask people to read the entire thing before they get involved, at the same time it puts them at a significant disadvantage not to give them any of it. --Rafael - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org
Re: Project Etiquette
Hi Folks, Personally I think Carl's idea is a good one, as I am new :) I was involved with QPID and AMQP a few years ago and have only just come back to the fold. I think having a getting involved - etiquette section is a good idea. As has already been mentioned, there is a lot of latent awareness about how to go about things, but as a new member of the community it would certainly be of benefit to me to be able to read about it! cheers, Sam. Carl Trieloff wrote: Robert Godfrey wrote: 2009/12/8 Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.com A number of recent threads have made it clear that we have a fair amount of unspoken etiquette about how we do things around here, and the fact that it is unspoken can be confusing to newcomers and old-timers alike. Looking at a few other apache project web sites, they often seem to have a page or two devoted to documenting their project etiquette. I think this would be a good thing for us to have as well, and I've taken the liberty of trying to seed this effort with some content. I think there are some obvious places where it would make sense to formalize some of this etiquette into some lightweight process, e.g. having maintainers files in svn, having a sandbox for new code contributions, etc, however this text is *not* intended to be a proposal for that sort of thing, merely an attempt to put into words what I believe most of us consider to be the status quo wrt the unspoken etiquette of the project. Of course the problem with unspoken etiquette is that we might not all have the same concept of what it actually is, so please let me know if you disagree with something I've written or you think something important is missing. --Rafael All this sounds very sensible to me; and there's nothing I can immediately think of that I would like to add. Having this on a Getting Involved section of the website, along, perhaps, with a list of the Big Ideas people are currently working on would seem to make a lot of sense... -- Rob Should we also add a getting involved Etiquette section, i.e. if you are new, how should I work with the team... Carl. - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org
Re: Project Etiquette
FWIW, the stuff I wrote was all intended for the benefit of new guys especially, even though I think it is equally good for us to have it written down for ourselves. I'm happy to add to it with some guidelines specifically for new contributors, I'm just less sure of what those are since it's been a while since I was a new contributor. If anyone has specific suggestions, please post and I'm happy to try to incorporate them somehow. As I mentioned, this wasn't intended to be a complete and definitive document, just a start that can evolve. --Rafael Sam Joyce wrote: Hi Folks, Personally I think Carl's idea is a good one, as I am new :) I was involved with QPID and AMQP a few years ago and have only just come back to the fold. I think having a getting involved - etiquette section is a good idea. As has already been mentioned, there is a lot of latent awareness about how to go about things, but as a new member of the community it would certainly be of benefit to me to be able to read about it! cheers, Sam. Carl Trieloff wrote: Robert Godfrey wrote: 2009/12/8 Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.com A number of recent threads have made it clear that we have a fair amount of unspoken etiquette about how we do things around here, and the fact that it is unspoken can be confusing to newcomers and old-timers alike. Looking at a few other apache project web sites, they often seem to have a page or two devoted to documenting their project etiquette. I think this would be a good thing for us to have as well, and I've taken the liberty of trying to seed this effort with some content. I think there are some obvious places where it would make sense to formalize some of this etiquette into some lightweight process, e.g. having maintainers files in svn, having a sandbox for new code contributions, etc, however this text is *not* intended to be a proposal for that sort of thing, merely an attempt to put into words what I believe most of us consider to be the status quo wrt the unspoken etiquette of the project. Of course the problem with unspoken etiquette is that we might not all have the same concept of what it actually is, so please let me know if you disagree with something I've written or you think something important is missing. --Rafael All this sounds very sensible to me; and there's nothing I can immediately think of that I would like to add. Having this on a Getting Involved section of the website, along, perhaps, with a list of the Big Ideas people are currently working on would seem to make a lot of sense... -- Rob Should we also add a getting involved Etiquette section, i.e. if you are new, how should I work with the team... Carl. - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org
Re: Project Etiquette
Hi Rafi, Thanks for taking the time to write these. I think they're a good idea to have for new people. At risk of incurring your wrath - I found it them a little long, at first reading. I wonder if you'd consider a more concise version - be happy to have a shot at it if that'd be helpful and not cross making ? I'd like to think we should welcome people in, tell them what they might need to know but I'm hoping we won't scare them off. What do you think ? Regards, Marnie On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.comwrote: FWIW, the stuff I wrote was all intended for the benefit of new guys especially, even though I think it is equally good for us to have it written down for ourselves. I'm happy to add to it with some guidelines specifically for new contributors, I'm just less sure of what those are since it's been a while since I was a new contributor. If anyone has specific suggestions, please post and I'm happy to try to incorporate them somehow. As I mentioned, this wasn't intended to be a complete and definitive document, just a start that can evolve. --Rafael Sam Joyce wrote: Hi Folks, Personally I think Carl's idea is a good one, as I am new :) I was involved with QPID and AMQP a few years ago and have only just come back to the fold. I think having a getting involved - etiquette section is a good idea. As has already been mentioned, there is a lot of latent awareness about how to go about things, but as a new member of the community it would certainly be of benefit to me to be able to read about it! cheers, Sam. Carl Trieloff wrote: Robert Godfrey wrote: 2009/12/8 Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.com A number of recent threads have made it clear that we have a fair amount of unspoken etiquette about how we do things around here, and the fact that it is unspoken can be confusing to newcomers and old-timers alike. Looking at a few other apache project web sites, they often seem to have a page or two devoted to documenting their project etiquette. I think this would be a good thing for us to have as well, and I've taken the liberty of trying to seed this effort with some content. I think there are some obvious places where it would make sense to formalize some of this etiquette into some lightweight process, e.g. having maintainers files in svn, having a sandbox for new code contributions, etc, however this text is *not* intended to be a proposal for that sort of thing, merely an attempt to put into words what I believe most of us consider to be the status quo wrt the unspoken etiquette of the project. Of course the problem with unspoken etiquette is that we might not all have the same concept of what it actually is, so please let me know if you disagree with something I've written or you think something important is missing. --Rafael All this sounds very sensible to me; and there's nothing I can immediately think of that I would like to add. Having this on a Getting Involved section of the website, along, perhaps, with a list of the Big Ideas people are currently working on would seem to make a lot of sense... -- Rob Should we also add a getting involved Etiquette section, i.e. if you are new, how should I work with the team... Carl. - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org - Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation Project: http://qpid.apache.org Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscr...@qpid.apache.org
Re: Project Etiquette
2009/12/8 Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.com A number of recent threads have made it clear that we have a fair amount of unspoken etiquette about how we do things around here, and the fact that it is unspoken can be confusing to newcomers and old-timers alike. Looking at a few other apache project web sites, they often seem to have a page or two devoted to documenting their project etiquette. I think this would be a good thing for us to have as well, and I've taken the liberty of trying to seed this effort with some content. I think there are some obvious places where it would make sense to formalize some of this etiquette into some lightweight process, e.g. having maintainers files in svn, having a sandbox for new code contributions, etc, however this text is *not* intended to be a proposal for that sort of thing, merely an attempt to put into words what I believe most of us consider to be the status quo wrt the unspoken etiquette of the project. Of course the problem with unspoken etiquette is that we might not all have the same concept of what it actually is, so please let me know if you disagree with something I've written or you think something important is missing. --Rafael All this sounds very sensible to me; and there's nothing I can immediately think of that I would like to add. Having this on a Getting Involved section of the website, along, perhaps, with a list of the Big Ideas people are currently working on would seem to make a lot of sense... -- Rob
Re: Project Etiquette
Robert Godfrey wrote: 2009/12/8 Rafael Schloming rafa...@redhat.com A number of recent threads have made it clear that we have a fair amount of unspoken etiquette about how we do things around here, and the fact that it is unspoken can be confusing to newcomers and old-timers alike. Looking at a few other apache project web sites, they often seem to have a page or two devoted to documenting their project etiquette. I think this would be a good thing for us to have as well, and I've taken the liberty of trying to seed this effort with some content. I think there are some obvious places where it would make sense to formalize some of this etiquette into some lightweight process, e.g. having maintainers files in svn, having a sandbox for new code contributions, etc, however this text is *not* intended to be a proposal for that sort of thing, merely an attempt to put into words what I believe most of us consider to be the status quo wrt the unspoken etiquette of the project. Of course the problem with unspoken etiquette is that we might not all have the same concept of what it actually is, so please let me know if you disagree with something I've written or you think something important is missing. --Rafael All this sounds very sensible to me; and there's nothing I can immediately think of that I would like to add. Having this on a Getting Involved section of the website, along, perhaps, with a list of the Big Ideas people are currently working on would seem to make a lot of sense... -- Rob Should we also add a getting involved Etiquette section, i.e. if you are new, how should I work with the team... Carl.
