Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I saw a truck with this logo earlier this week and it made me think about Racket: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/clubedotrecho/11-0013.jpg http://www.gruporaupp.com.br/logotipos_raupp/raupp_transportes.png -- Rodolfo Carvalho _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Thu, 2012-03-01 at 10:29 -0300, Rodolfo Carvalho wrote: I saw a truck with this logo earlier this week and it made me think about Racket: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/clubedotrecho/11-0013.jpg http://www.gruporaupp.com.br/logotipos_raupp/raupp_transportes.png A very good idea for start. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I for one like both designs a lot. On Feb 19, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Neil Toronto wrote: On 02/18/2012 08:49 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: An hour ago, Neil Toronto wrote: That's why after several attempts to connect the paren to the rest of the R I went back to Michael's original thing and left it disconnected, and instead used the pointy serifs that match the pointy tips of the paren, making the R a result of your brain connecting the pieces. In this image, I think that there are several problems in that direction: separating the lambda into two parts make it look less lambda-ish, and the low point of connecting the leg makes it look less R-ish. I found that using round lines helps in making it possible to lift the hip with it still looking like a lambda. Is the attached SVG better, in your opinion? I've thickened the left leg, attached it to the slash, changed the angle to more R-ish, and also attached the top of the round bit. (There's also something else that bugs me, but probably not many others: de-emphasizing the line at the top makes it look too much like an aleph (ℵ), in some army-like style.) Yeah, but aleph is cool. If you're seeing aleph, I call that a bonus. In fact, we should see how many letters from different alphabets we can cram in there! Uh, not really. :D Neil ⊥ lambda+racket-logo.svg_ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I've attached my entry into the lambda + R prototype series. I went for symmetry on the lambda body, mimicked the round part of the Times New Roman R, and compromised as little as possible on the angle of the left leg. This is a very tricky logo idea, FWIW. The left-leg angle is always hard to get right, and it's hard to make a round shape that's forceful and balanced but not overbearing. (That's why I deferred to the pros on that part. I think it was a good move.) Neil ⊥ attachment: lambda+racket-logo.svg_ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
An hour ago, Neil Toronto wrote: I've attached my entry into the lambda + R prototype series. I went for symmetry on the lambda body, mimicked the round part of the Times New Roman R, and compromised as little as possible on the angle of the left leg. This is a very tricky logo idea, FWIW. The left-leg angle is always hard to get right, and it's hard to make a round shape that's forceful and balanced but not overbearing. (That's why I deferred to the pros on that part. I think it was a good move.) Yes, tricky it is. (The below is only if anyone cares about these details.) That's why after several attempts to connect the paren to the rest of the R I went back to Michael's original thing and left it disconnected, and instead used the pointy serifs that match the pointy tips of the paren, making the R a result of your brain connecting the pieces. In this image, I think that there are several problems in that direction: separating the lambda into two parts make it look less lambda-ish, and the low point of connecting the leg makes it look less R-ish. I found that using round lines helps in making it possible to lift the hip with it still looking like a lambda. (There's also something else that bugs me, but probably not many others: de-emphasizing the line at the top makes it look too much like an aleph (ℵ), in some army-like style.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Yesterday, Neil Toronto wrote: I decided to play with this one a bit. I used PLT's lambda, put the r in the same style, and then made it into a lambda r.acket banner. Here's the deal, though. This one, even just the lambda r. in a circle, is pushing complexity. We've been approaching logo design too much like language design, trying to cram as much semantic content as possible into a small space or into the fewest shapes. A logo exists primarily to make a good impression on outsiders. Filling it with too much meaning works actively against this. +8.5. My first thought when I saw this was that it goes in the direction of the Haskell logo that looked more like a homework problem than a logo (seems that it's almost extinct now -- found one here: http://blog.webspecies.co.uk/2011-05-31/lazy-evaluation-with-php.html). I tried a whole bunch of things with the version I suggested earlier, but they all suffer from looking like they're trying too much. (There were also similar suggestions, like the pregnant lambda, or the cult symbol, or the mirrored-2 symbol.) I finally went back to the simple thing that Michael did, tweaked a lambda to look a little more like a part of an R (pointy serif-like ends, higher hip for the leg). The result looks like a clear R on a brief look, and at the same time the λ is also very clear: http://tmp.barzilay.org/logo/1-=-ipage.html The only thing that bugged me about it was that when it's placed in the usual circle border, the ) part touches the circle in a bad way. I've played with two solutions that look nice: use a slanted ellipse instead (which also adds a dynamic look), and use a textured background. You can see that too in the same directory. BTW, the images will look bad since they're resized badly, there's an [original] link that goes to the unresized version. All of this was following a night of looking through *all* of the fonts on my machine, and choosing a λ and an R to model this on. There's a logo.xcf.bz2 file there if anyone wants to play with this. (The important part is the topmost path.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: A logo exists primarily to make a good impression on outsiders. Filling it with too much meaning works actively against this. I second this too. And I actually do like Eli's direction. But it does need color. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: I tried a whole bunch of things with the version I suggested earlier, but they all suffer from looking like they're trying too much. (There were also similar suggestions, like the pregnant lambda, or the cult symbol, or the mirrored-2 symbol.) I finally went back to the simple thing that Michael did, tweaked a lambda to look a little more like a part of an R (pointy serif-like ends, higher hip for the leg). The result looks like a clear R on a brief look, and at the same time the λ is also very clear: http://tmp.barzilay.org/logo/1-=-ipage.html +pi Of all the logos I've seen in this discussion, the ones I've liked the best are the ones that look like a clear R at first, and then you realize it's also a clear lambda. Nothing more. We've had several candidates like that, and I would suggest choosing among them based on how they fit into the desired background. Stephen Bloch sbl...@adelphi.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Greetings. On 2012 Feb 14, at 20:37, Neil Toronto wrote: Here's the deal, though. This one, even just the lambda r. in a circle, is pushing complexity. We've been approaching logo design too much like language design, trying to cram as much semantic content as possible into a small space or into the fewest shapes. A logo exists primarily to make a good impression on outsiders. Filling it with too much meaning works actively against this. That's very true. Also, there's quite a lot of visually arresting features in that banner -- the lambda in a circle, the artfully mismatched brackets, the shape of the letters, the margins on the letters, the colours -- each one of which would be distinctive by itself. Here's another banner-shaped suggestion: http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambdas.html. Perhaps I just like white space, but this seems to say quite a lot, and be distinctive, without looking busy (the 'r' is different from the previous suggestions, being Optima rather than Gill Sans). Scheme is all about letting a little say a lot, and so it seems to me that really pared-back minimalism is a great look for Racket. Logos should be designed not by piling feature on top of feature, but by removing Best wishes, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I'm no graphics designer but I've been playing with Eli's logo a bit. I went gradient-happy; sorry. Here it is with a silvery sheen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/whitesilver-subtle.png Less subtle, darker silver: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silver.png I've been experimenting with a few colors on it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverblue.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverred.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverred-altshine.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/bluesilver.png Here are two attempts at the circular logo, but I'm out of time to play for today. Classic PLT: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle1.png Flipped color (not too sure about this one): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle-bluewhite.png Here's the SVG if you want to play around in inkscape: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/eli-racketlogo.svg Just open the layer dialog with Ctrl+Shift+L and hide/show various layers to mess with it. 3 hours ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: A logo exists primarily to make a good impression on outsiders. Filling it with too much meaning works actively against this. I second this too. And I actually do like Eli's direction. But it does need color. -- Onward to Alaska! _mike _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle-bluewhite.png Thanks You! I would love it if Neil and John put their mind to the above and turned into something they like. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Michael W wrote: I'm no graphics designer but I've been playing with Eli's logo a bit. I went gradient-happy; sorry. Here it is with a silvery sheen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/whitesilver-subtle.png Less subtle, darker silver: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silver.png I've been experimenting with a few colors on it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverblue.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverred.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverred-altshine.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/bluesilver.png Here are two attempts at the circular logo, but I'm out of time to play for today. Classic PLT: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle1.png Flipped color (not too sure about this one): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle-bluewhite.png Hey! Finally a suggestion with high production value! If you have time to grab Neil's shiny 3D code, I bet you could do something really cool with this. John smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On 02/15/2012 12:21 PM, John Clements wrote: On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Michael W wrote: I'm no graphics designer but I've been playing with Eli's logo a bit. I went gradient-happy; sorry. Here it is with a silvery sheen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/whitesilver-subtle.png Less subtle, darker silver: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silver.png I've been experimenting with a few colors on it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverblue.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverred.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/silverred-altshine.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/bluesilver.png Here are two attempts at the circular logo, but I'm out of time to play for today. Classic PLT: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle1.png Flipped color (not too sure about this one): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle-bluewhite.png Hey! Finally a suggestion with high production value! If you have time to grab Neil's shiny 3D code, I bet you could do something really cool with this. John Well, the API ain't public yet, but sho' 'nuff will be after I beat the stupid out of it. (Sorry, been reading Brer Rabbit to my kids. Did you know there's a story where Brer Rabbit tricks Mrs. Fox into cooking her husband's severed head? That rascally trickster!) Aanyway, I'll play with it. Neil ⊥ _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
11 hours ago, Michael W wrote: I'm no graphics designer but I've been playing with Eli's logo a bit. I went gradient-happy; sorry. [...] I've added them to the sequence in my directory -- start from http://tmp.barzilay.org/logo/whitesilver-subtle-=-ipage.html and hit right to go in sequence. (Also, the down key goes to the plain original image.) Classic PLT: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle1.png (Oh, it looks like it works even with a circle there...) Flipped color (not too sure about this one): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/219506/racket-logo/circle-bluewhite.png I think that it's best to keep the paren and the lambda with the same colors, otherwise the R-ness is not as obvious. I have simplified the path, so there are very few points now. (It also improves the result a bit, but nothing that would be visible at a screen-logo size and below.) It's at http://tmp.barzilay.org/logo/logo.svg It's what gimp made up, which works fine in inkscape too. An hour and a half ago, Neil Toronto wrote: Well, the API ain't public yet, but sho' 'nuff will be after I beat the stupid out of it. [I had a fight with it for a while, trying to figure out why it was rendering it as some weird drunk line... then I realized that there's a difference between capitals and lower case symbols...] The relevant parts are below, using the original names from the planet logo since that's how I tried it. (BTW, it would be nice to have an option for `draw-path-commands' that automatically fits the input into a 0,0--1,1 square, or something similar.) --- (define continents-path-commands '((M 353.00 193.00) (C 400.67 188.33 478.00 207.33 501.67 273.67 525.33 340.00 473.67 406.33 427.67 429.33 479.33 420.67 588.67 342.67 558.56 255.00 528.45 167.33 384.33 179.67 353.00 193.00) (M 406.67 557.00) (C 412.50 575.50 420.38 596.22 438.00 605.68 455.00 616.75 515.66 610.64 518.55 605.09 503.42 596.38 492.75 600.25 474.25 585.00 464.25 577.50 459.25 559.50 452.25 539.75 446.50 524.25 386.67 323.67 375.77 288.83 364.87 253.99 356.67 230.67 334.33 209.67 327.33 203.67 284.33 180.33 246.84 213.41 278.67 206.33 298.67 213.67 323.87 289.35 323.87 289.35 240.55 559.82 233.50 584.00 226.45 608.18 230.16 607.90 254.17 608.77 278.18 609.64 282.09 605.00 284.06 597.63 286.03 590.26 344.00 351.00 344.00 351.00 344.00 351.00 400.84 538.50 406.67 557.00))) (define (continents-flomap color height) (define scale (/ height 32)) (draw-icon-flomap 32 32 (λ (dc) (send dc set-pen lambda-outline-color 3/8 'solid) (send dc set-brush color 'solid) (draw-path-commands dc (scale-path-commands continents-path-commands 0.06 0.06) -7 -9)) scale)) --- -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Upon startup of DrRacket, create an animation that moves the lambda onto an r, and then complete with 'acket' as per Eli suggestion. That would be awesome, even though I don't know how hard would be to produce such animation. On 11/02/12 18:27, John Clements wrote: On Feb 11, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: John and Neil, we seem to have lost momentum on this discussion. For the record, I like the idea of changing our logo a bit. I like the direction in which is evolving, though I will admit that losing the lambda completely. Have you guys considered a small change that makes the 'r' more lambda-ish? In any case, I am all for keeping the new logo around for a while so that we can check whether we get used to it or not. Would it be productive to choose one randomly on startup? Also, in case it's not obvious, a rotated and flipped version of the logo does recall the lambda pretty clearly: Re-rendering the image with the lighting in the right place might change or improve this, though I agree that the weighting of the strokes is all wrong here. John _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev -- PMatos _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
So do I. Ending it with a dot makes it feel like an unfinished program to me, parameterized on a Racket. Neil ⊥ On 02/13/2012 10:03 AM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: I do actually like the combination of lambda and r, though I am sure the color scheme could benefit from some variation. On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Norman Gray wrote: On 2012 Feb 13, at 14:54, Philippe Meunier wrote: For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. Whoa! Doesn't it just! Another thing that occurred to me, on the same model as before, is to go for an almost completely typographical logo. Athttp://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r5.pdf is a possibility. It's just '\r.', really, but with the lambda in a cursive font, the 'r.' in a modern one (Gill Sans), and some pretty aggressive tracking to make it into a unit. That doesn't have the shinies of other suggestions, but it's obviously very adaptable and (to my aesthetic at least) matches the chiselled restraint of a Scheme. I think that's exhausted my visual creativity for the day, so I'll shut up now All the best, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I decided to play with this one a bit. I used PLT's lambda, put the r in the same style, and then made it into a lambda r.acket banner. Here's the deal, though. This one, even just the lambda r. in a circle, is pushing complexity. We've been approaching logo design too much like language design, trying to cram as much semantic content as possible into a small space or into the fewest shapes. A logo exists primarily to make a good impression on outsiders. Filling it with too much meaning works actively against this. Neil ⊥ On 02/13/2012 10:03 AM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: I do actually like the combination of lambda and r, though I am sure the color scheme could benefit from some variation. On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Norman Gray wrote: On 2012 Feb 13, at 14:54, Philippe Meunier wrote: For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. Whoa! Doesn't it just! Another thing that occurred to me, on the same model as before, is to go for an almost completely typographical logo. Athttp://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r5.pdf is a possibility. It's just '\r.', really, but with the lambda in a cursive font, the 'r.' in a modern one (Gill Sans), and some pretty aggressive tracking to make it into a unit. That doesn't have the shinies of other suggestions, but it's obviously very adaptable and (to my aesthetic at least) matches the chiselled restraint of a Scheme. I think that's exhausted my visual creativity for the day, so I'll shut up now All the best, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev attachment: racket-logo.svg_ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Neil Toronto wrote at 02/14/2012 03:37 PM: Here's the deal, though. This one, even just the lambda r. in a circle, is pushing complexity. We've been approaching logo design too much like language design, trying to cram as much semantic content as possible into a small space or into the fewest shapes. A logo exists primarily to make a good impression on outsiders. Filling it with too much meaning works actively against this. Good point. This full banner would be good printed as a big stripe across light gray T-shirts and hoodies (like university-branded merchandise using unofficial visuals), but is pretty busy as the canonical logo. It's not a bad allusion to Racket's quality of we've crammed a lot of clever stuff into this thing, and you'll need to spend a lot of time going through all of it. The lambda r. in a circle part alone is not bad. I wonder how well it could work with more of a nod to the long-time red and blue of the PLT logos. And I still like the only-slightly-odd-looking parenthesis added to current logo, to make an R idea. -- http://www.neilvandyke.org/ _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Hi all, Graphic design is not a strength of mine, but I had an idea that I don't think I've seen incorporated into any of the designs so far. Maybe someone will want to take it further. http://i.imgur.com/ExgM6.png A couple of points: My original idea was simply an italicized R and a λ. Then I noticed the λ is suggestive of an A, so I added the CKET at a smaller size. I am not really fond of Rλ by itself, at least with my attempts at it. Also, the λ/A could be an actual combination of λ and A, like: http://i.imgur.com/50Df8.png David _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Greetings. I've no real standing here -- this is an observation from the sidelines On 2012 Feb 13, at 06:05, SF wrote: Another way to combine lambda and capital R: http://i.imgur.com/PuGTE.png Combining the lambda and the R in this way looks like a very good idea to me. I can see the point to the original 'r' logo -- it picks up the previous PLT colours, it looks nicely informal (though that particular example perhaps went a little too far, and could look childish), and of course it picks up the 'r' of Racket. I'm also one of those who thinks it'd be a shame to lose the lambdas, and I think that SF's suggestion here marries several of these desiderata. With that in mind, I'll suggest a variant of it (born analogue, I'm afraid, rather than as pixels) http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r.png The first three seem to be tending towards the florid, but some more rhythmic version of the other three -- variants of 'λr.' -- might be worth closer examination. I'm aware the last one of the six is starting to look more like lambda-tau. Best wishes, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
2012/2/12 Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org An hour ago, Michael W wrote: Or something with the parenthesis echo motif on the main site: http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5233/lambdarechopng.jpg This one is great! Here's a rough sketch that shows what I'm thinking of (using the shiny bg): http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png From all the suggestions so far, this is the concept I like the best. (Imagine it rendered in the style of the new r-logo). Pros: * it is clear it is an R * it is clear R builds on lambda * a black and white version is easy to make * it will work in small sizes too Who cares about unbalanced parentheses in logos? -- Jens Axel Søgaard _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
+1 for something like http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png On 02/12/2012 04:50 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: An hour ago, Michael W wrote: Or something with the parenthesis echo motif on the main site: http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5233/lambdarechopng.jpg This one is great! The noisy parens are not important as the R itself which is very recognizable as an R even with a clear λ. It inherits the benefits of the λ logo and maintains continuity. It even has a semi-hidden visual pun: it combines λ and ) to get an R. All of this is just from the basic shape, which means that it will work well in other contexts and forms (printed on paper, shirts, and those ads that little piper planes drag around). Here's a rough sketch that shows what I'm thinking of (using the shiny bg): http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png The pun can even be taken further by adding a ( on the left, smaller and fading out, so it looks like a curl on the top-left: http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr2.png -- Eduardo Bellani omnia mutantur, nihil interit. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 13, 2012, at 6:16 AM, Jens Axel Søgaard wrote: http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png From all the suggestions so far, this is the concept I like the best. (Imagine it rendered in the style of the new r-logo). Pros: * it is clear it is an R * it is clear R builds on lambda * a black and white version is easy to make * it will work in small sizes too Who cares about unbalanced parentheses in logos? Hear, hear! When people are looking for something to complain about in Scheme, the parentheses are the first thing they point to. Racket is not about parentheses, so I'd prefer towards a logo that DOESN'T have any obvious parentheses (balanced or otherwise). If we build an R from a lambda, the added bow should be sufficiently curvy that parenthesis isn't the first thing one thinks of. Stephen Bloch sbl...@adelphi.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
At Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:05:57 -0500, SF wrote: While trying to refine that sketch I had the idea to extend the stem for a dynamic look, perhaps this would fit better in a circle: http://i.imgur.com/IywqK.png +1 That's my new favorite. Vincent _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
How about combining the ideas of http://i.imgur.com/PuGTE.png http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r.png (the one in the upper right) and http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png (forgetting about an explicit parenthesis) into a single, simple, new symbol like the one attached? (okay, it looks more like a lambda merged with a P rather than with an R but I think the trick would just be to find a font where lambdas and italic Rs combine more nicely than in my quick example). For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. And that's all I'll say on the topic... Goodnight. Philippe attachment: lamket.jpg_ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
At Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:54:58 -0500, Philippe Meunier wrote: For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. Were you thinking of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho Vincent _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On 2012 Feb 13, at 14:54, Philippe Meunier wrote: For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. Whoa! Doesn't it just! Another thing that occurred to me, on the same model as before, is to go for an almost completely typographical logo. At http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r5.pdf is a possibility. It's just '\r.', really, but with the lambda in a cursive font, the 'r.' in a modern one (Gill Sans), and some pretty aggressive tracking to make it into a unit. That doesn't have the shinies of other suggestions, but it's obviously very adaptable and (to my aesthetic at least) matches the chiselled restraint of a Scheme. I think that's exhausted my visual creativity for the day, so I'll shut up now All the best, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I do actually like the combination of lambda and r, though I am sure the color scheme could benefit from some variation. On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Norman Gray wrote: On 2012 Feb 13, at 14:54, Philippe Meunier wrote: For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. Whoa! Doesn't it just! Another thing that occurred to me, on the same model as before, is to go for an almost completely typographical logo. At http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r5.pdf is a possibility. It's just '\r.', really, but with the lambda in a cursive font, the 'r.' in a modern one (Gill Sans), and some pretty aggressive tracking to make it into a unit. That doesn't have the shinies of other suggestions, but it's obviously very adaptable and (to my aesthetic at least) matches the chiselled restraint of a Scheme. I think that's exhausted my visual creativity for the day, so I'll shut up now All the best, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Greetings. On 2012 Feb 13, at 17:03, Matthias Felleisen wrote: I do actually like the combination of lambda and r, though I am sure the color scheme could benefit from some variation. Less might be more, but http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r6.pdf shows an adjustment. The blue is a bit too light, the red a bit too pink, and the text could perhaps be a shade bigger, but the shape is not, I think, unpleasing. All the best, Norman On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Norman Gray wrote: On 2012 Feb 13, at 14:54, Philippe Meunier wrote: For some reason it slightly reminds me of a symbol for some religious cult or political party, which might or might not be a good thing. Whoa! Doesn't it just! Another thing that occurred to me, on the same model as before, is to go for an almost completely typographical logo. At http://nxg.me.uk/temp/lambda-r5.pdf is a possibility. It's just '\r.', really, but with the lambda in a cursive font, the 'r.' in a modern one (Gill Sans), and some pretty aggressive tracking to make it into a unit. That doesn't have the shinies of other suggestions, but it's obviously very adaptable and (to my aesthetic at least) matches the chiselled restraint of a Scheme. I think that's exhausted my visual creativity for the day, so I'll shut up now All the best, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev -- Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Sun, Feb 12 2012, David Van Horn wrote: [...] Maybe an 'r' in different scripts can be considered? For example, an R rotunda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda FWIW, I like this quite a bit. I think if you put this on the new background, you'd have a winner. For the very little it's worth, i agree. To my taste, it's the most elegant option by far. jao -- How many Zen Buddhist does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to change it and one not to change it. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
http://i.imgur.com/glpGB.png _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
Eli Barzilay wrote at 02/12/2012 01:50 AM: An hour ago, Michael W wrote: http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5233/lambdarechopng.jpg http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png Yes! I think that cr.png has nailed the design. lambdarechopng.jpg especially got my attention before, but I thought it needed major aesthetic changes to fit Racket better. I think cr.png is a big step in the aesthetic fit direction. cr.png also has nice continuity of evolution from the current Racket logo and preceding PLT Scheme logos. cr.png is a bit geeky and slightly awkward -- moreso than the current Racket logo -- but it's supposed to represent a computer programming platform that grew out of Scheme, so a bit geeky is appropriate. And it has more character (no pun) than the current Racket logo. I could see cr.png as a rough draft of a good final version of the logo, with the design being pretty much complete, and needing only some experimentingtweaking of subtleties of the rendering (in the graphic artistry sense). (I don't mean to discourage further ideas with this opinion; maybe someone has an even better refinement, or some different ideas.) -- http://www.neilvandyke.org/ _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 12, 2012, at 1:50 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: Here's a rough sketch that shows what I'm thinking of (using the shiny bg): http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png I like this. I haven't looked at all the various drafts people have come up with, but I would much rather not lose the lambda, and haven't been impressed by the lower-case r. If we can fit in a parenthesis that turns it into an R, that's fine too. The pun can even be taken further by adding a ( on the left, smaller and fading out, so it looks like a curl on the top-left: http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr2.png Interesting idea. This one isn't there yet, but has promise. Stephen Bloch sbl...@adelphi.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
At Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:50:33 -0500, Eli Barzilay wrote: http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr.png I like this one. I really like the idea of combining lambda with parentheses. The unbalanced paren bothers me a bit though. The pun can even be taken further by adding a ( on the left, smaller and fading out, so it looks like a curl on the top-left: http://tmp.barzilay.org/cr2.png Adding an opening paren makes me more comfortable, but I don't like the fading. Here's an attempt at making the parens look balanced: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/stamourv/cr3.png Vincent _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
At Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:01:44 -0800, John Clements wrote: I like this general idea. It seems to me that we're headed toward some kind of translucent ball with bands around it. If the sideways band is more visible through the ball, you get the R effect that people are seeing. This loses the parentheses, and doesn't really look like an R anymore. The band effect on my sketch was an accident, I was going for parentheses. Vincent _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
FWIW, I think it is hard to tell what John sees by just reading a paragraph. So, how about holding off on the naysaying until you see what he actually produces? Robby On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Vincent St-Amour stamo...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: At Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:01:44 -0800, John Clements wrote: I like this general idea. It seems to me that we're headed toward some kind of translucent ball with bands around it. If the sideways band is more visible through the ball, you get the R effect that people are seeing. This loses the parentheses, and doesn't really look like an R anymore. The band effect on my sketch was an accident, I was going for parentheses. Vincent _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
20 minutes ago, Vincent St-Amour wrote: At Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:01:44 -0800, John Clements wrote: I like this general idea. It seems to me that we're headed toward some kind of translucent ball with bands around it. If the sideways band is more visible through the ball, you get the R effect that people are seeing. This loses the parentheses, and doesn't really look like an R anymore. The band effect on my sketch was an accident, I was going for parentheses. +1, at least in that sketch. (The translucency seems like it would get in the way of making it back into an R.) I had tried the plain parens first (just mirrored and flipped the one on the RHS), and got pretty much the same thing you posted. But the lambda with arms result wasn't looking well, and it certainly lost the R-ness of the one-paren version, hence the attempt at fading it. I also agree that that doesn't look good, I was hoping that someone would have an idea on how to make it work. Overall, I think that the single-paren version really works well, especially in terms of the simplicity feature (which can work in less capable mediums). Neil(T): Is there an easy way to dip it in plastic? (I want to play with it more and see how it would look in a less sketchy way.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Neil Toronto neil.toro...@gmail.com wrote: (Robby already said no to animations, but he has to do what you say, right? :p) For the record, I don't oppose animations. I said that privately in a series of messages to John and Neil to get the r logo (that John sent me _ages_ ago... sorry) going before the initial post in this thread. I was really hoping to save some kind of animation between the r the lambda for an easter egg, but maybe that's not a good idea. Anyways, I like the discussion and alternatives we're seeing here. I'm one for shiny stuff, tho, so I'm hoping someone who can actually produce cool candy picks up one of the ideas and shows us something. Robby _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On 02/12/2012 05:58 PM, Robby Findler wrote: On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Neil Torontoneil.toro...@gmail.com wrote: (Robby already said no to animations, but he has to do what you say, right? :p) For the record, I don't oppose animations. I said that privately in a series of messages to John and Neil to get the r logo (that John sent me _ages_ ago... sorry) going before the initial post in this thread. I was really hoping to save some kind of animation between the r the lambda for an easter egg, but maybe that's not a good idea. Anyways, I like the discussion and alternatives we're seeing here. I'm one for shiny stuff, tho, so I'm hoping someone who can actually produce cool candy picks up one of the ideas and shows us something. Let me clarify, then. I haven't liked anything better than the lambda or r *so far*. Keep 'em coming, peeps. Neil ⊥ _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
[racket-dev] new logo
John and Neil, we seem to have lost momentum on this discussion. For the record, I like the idea of changing our logo a bit. I like the direction in which is evolving, though I will admit that losing the lambda completely. Have you guys considered a small change that makes the 'r' more lambda-ish? In any case, I am all for keeping the new logo around for a while so that we can check whether we get used to it or not. -- Matthias _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 12:27 PM, John Clements cleme...@brinckerhoff.org wrote: On Feb 11, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: John and Neil, we seem to have lost momentum on this discussion. For the record, I like the idea of changing our logo a bit. I like the direction in which is evolving, though I will admit that losing the lambda completely. Have you guys considered a small change that makes the 'r' more lambda-ish? In any case, I am all for keeping the new logo around for a while so that we can check whether we get used to it or not. Would it be productive to choose one randomly on startup? FWIW, in the current drracket you can type 'plt' to get the old logo back (just the weekday version) to make a quick comparison. Robby _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 11, 2012, at 1:27 PM, John Clements wrote: Would it be productive to choose one randomly on startup? Also, in case it's not obvious, a rotated and flipped version of the logo does recall the lambda pretty clearly: racket-logo-plastic-rotflip-256x256.png Re-rendering the image with the lighting in the right place might change or improve this, though I agree that the weighting of the strokes is all wrong here. How expensive would it be to rotate the logo from 'r' to 'λ' during start up? Now *that* would be wonderful! -- Matthias p.s. or in the other direction _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo [and 1 more messages]
An hour ago, John Clements wrote: Would it be productive to choose one randomly on startup? (That's avoiding the issue, since a logo is something that eventually needs to be a distinct thing.) Also, in case it's not obvious, a rotated and flipped version of the logo does recall the lambda pretty clearly: [...] That's exactly what I tried to figure out why I didn't see any obvious lambda when looking at the r logo. The resulting lambda (the one you attached) is far enough from a proper one that it is not immediately recognizable, way less when flipped and rotated. (BTW, the first thing that I see in the flipped+rotated image is a τ.) An hour ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: How expensive would it be to rotate the logo from 'r' to 'λ' during start up? Now *that* would be wonderful! -- Matthias Pretty expensive, since that's when the machine is already fighting with loading everything. (And it will need to be a smooth transformation to make it clear.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo [and 1 more messages]
Eli, with due respect, but I think we know where you stand. If my memory serves correctly, you have collectively sent as many emails/opinions as the rest of the people together :-) -- Matthias p.s. conceptual art is good art -- helga says so. In that sense, making people think about your logo is *very* good. Good job John and Neil. On Feb 11, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: An hour ago, John Clements wrote: Would it be productive to choose one randomly on startup? (That's avoiding the issue, since a logo is something that eventually needs to be a distinct thing.) Also, in case it's not obvious, a rotated and flipped version of the logo does recall the lambda pretty clearly: [...] That's exactly what I tried to figure out why I didn't see any obvious lambda when looking at the r logo. The resulting lambda (the one you attached) is far enough from a proper one that it is not immediately recognizable, way less when flipped and rotated. (BTW, the first thing that I see in the flipped+rotated image is a τ.) An hour ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: How expensive would it be to rotate the logo from 'r' to 'λ' during start up? Now *that* would be wonderful! -- Matthias Pretty expensive, since that's when the machine is already fighting with loading everything. (And it will need to be a smooth transformation to make it clear.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On 2012-02-11 13:23:46 -0500, Matthias Felleisen wrote: Have you guys considered a small change that makes the 'r' more lambda-ish? Maybe an 'r' in different scripts can be considered? For example, an R rotunda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda Or perhaps a script capital R: ℛ (if that unicode shows up) Both look more like lambdas than a lowercase Latin 'r'. (OTOH: you might lose the pun for most viewers) Cheers, Asumu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Feb 11, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:27 PM, John Clements cleme...@brinckerhoff.org wrote: Also, in case it's not obvious, a rotated and flipped version of the logo does recall the lambda pretty clearly: And here I thought this [attached] was the lambda. That, in fact, is a much nicer lambda than the other one. Furthermore, it doesn't require reflection, which is nice. Thanks for showing me that! John smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo [and 1 more messages]
20 minutes ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: p.s. conceptual art is good art -- helga says so. In that sense, making people think about your logo is *very* good. This is not art (not in the same sense that you're using here). A logo is not art in the sense of making people think. Logos are identities first, and if there's thinking involved later (like the fedex arrow) then that's a cute bonus but far from the main goal -- and that makes it very different from art. Random two links on logo design: http://ibrandstudio.com/articles/good-logo-design-criteria http://www.logobird.com/the-principles-of-good-logo-design/ Both mention simple as an important requirement. (They also have a bunch of additional features that are needed for making a good logo, which the r doesn't have.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo [and 1 more messages]
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: (They also have a bunch of additional features that are needed for making a good logo, which the r doesn't have.) I realize this is a judgment call, but the link with 5 bullets you sent seem to all be met by the current proposal. There's always room for improvement sure, but I really like the direction this is going. Robby _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: For the record, I like the idea of changing our logo a bit. I like the direction in which is evolving, though I will admit that losing the lambda completely. First, I really like the new logo -- the improvement is obvious when you look at old and new side by side. The only concern I have is that it looks kid-oriented. Currently, I think our number one perception issue is that Racket is only for teaching programming, and I wouldn't want our logo to contribute to that misimpression. (Compare the clojure, or scala, or node.js logos, for example.) Regardless of that, I think we should build on the logo in other ways. For example, we could use the r in the title of the web page, even if we don't use the whole logo. Or we could create a d in the same style, and use it for a dr logo for DrRacket. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo [and 1 more messages]
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:00:48 -0500 Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: In that sense, making people think about your logo is *very* good. r: Oh look, they molded a r into the red/blue circle, because it's called racket. I guess everybody will get this immediately and most will probably push the logo into their mental eye candy folder and ignore it down the road. Not many people will think about the logo beyond the obvious interpretation. lambda: Oh hey, they used one of the fundamental concepts of their programming paradigm in their logo. I guess everybody will have got this after their second day using racket and then, after filing it under eye candy still receive a subconscious call It's lambda time when starting up DrRacket. I'm for lambda, the flip and rotate r to get a lambda is way to forced to make a connection for me. Not that the logo will influence my using racket or not ... s. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
On 02/11/2012 11:40 AM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: On Feb 11, 2012, at 1:27 PM, John Clements wrote: Would it be productive to choose one randomly on startup? Also, in case it's not obvious, a rotated and flipped version of the logo does recall the lambda pretty clearly: racket-logo-plastic-rotflip-256x256.png Re-rendering the image with the lighting in the right place might change or improve this, though I agree that the weighting of the strokes is all wrong here. How expensive would it be to rotate the logo from 'r' to 'λ' during start up? Now *that* would be wonderful! -- Matthias You could help me quantify this. If you have a recent nightly, try this program: #lang racket (require images/tests/effects-tests) It will output four lines of timing info, then open a GUI frame and whirl-morph between the PLT and Racket logos a few times. The first three lines are compile-time-only costs. The last line is a runtime cost: how long it takes to load the compiled JPEGs that comprise the animation. On my computer, it takes 200ms. Could you try that program and reply with the numbers? (I wouldn't mind if a few other people tried it as well. :)) Using adaptive frame skipping, I think I could guarantee that the animation takes less than 1/4 second, not including loading time. (Robby already said no to animations, but he has to do what you say, right? :p) Neil ⊥ _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] new logo
I also wonder if we couldn't combine both the R and the lambda in interesting ways. The left part and the stem of a capital R sort of looks like a lambda, if you squint right. Could we exploit this property somehow? http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6555/scriptr.jpg Going from the other direction, adding a curve on a lambda letter yields something that looks like a convincing letter R, like this perhaps: http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9954/anotherlambdarpng.jpg Or something with the parenthesis echo motif on the main site: http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5233/lambdarechopng.jpg We might be able to make trivial changes to the existing logo to bring this property out: http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8018/lambdarpng.jpg All just wild speculation of course. 9 hours ago, Asumu Takikawa wrote: On 2012-02-11 13:23:46 -0500, Matthias Felleisen wrote: Have you guys considered a small change that makes the 'r' more lambda-ish? Maybe an 'r' in different scripts can be considered? For example, an R rotunda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda Or perhaps a script capital R: ℛ (if that unicode shows up) Both look more like lambdas than a lowercase Latin 'r'. (OTOH: you might lose the pun for most viewers) Cheers, Asumu -- Servus, _mike _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
