Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[Eric Pugh]

Thanks for the link….   I don’t think anything I read in the thread suggested 
that merely changing the default to cloud mode instead of standalone mode 
(sounds like we are going back to that term!) would raise any issues.
Obviously deprecating standalone is a much bigger deal and not part of the 
scope of this thread….

> On Feb 26, 2024, at 7:35 PM, David Smiley  wrote:
> 
> Whoops; bad URL.  Here it is:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/r7mh069t5zvqv3o3ymglm627pcdgjzfw
> 
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 3:59 PM David Smiley  wrote:
>> 
>> Also reference a bigger discussion of August that same year:
>> "SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate Standalone Mode"
>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@solr.apache.org
>> 
>> (reading past conversations on a topic should be required reading when
>> introducing again)
>> 
>> RE "user-managed" I recall Cassandra was working on the ref guide and
>> tried to get us to harmonize on some terminology.  Ultimately "user
>> managed" was chosen and thus this term is widespread in the ref guide
>> despite "standalone" clearly being used for many years.  Personally, I
>> *much* prefer "standalone" and continue to use it (sorry?).
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the default 
>>> option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
>>> 
>>> Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
>>> 
>>> Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as the 
>>> best way to run Solr.
>>> 
>>> Jan
>>> 
 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh :
 
 During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting to 
 SolrCloud mode came up.
 
 The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an 
 embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If 
 you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would 
 connect to the external ensemble instead.
 
 If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then bin/solr 
 start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
 
 Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have both 
 SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud content is 
 at the top instead of at the bottom.
 
 To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 Eric
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
 http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
  | My Free/Busy 
 
 Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
 
 This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
 Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
 whether attachments are marked as such.
 
>>> 
> 
> -
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___
Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
http://www.opensourceconnections.com  | 
My Free/Busy   
Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 


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Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[David Smiley]

Whoops; bad URL.  Here it is:
https://lists.apache.org/thread/r7mh069t5zvqv3o3ymglm627pcdgjzfw

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 3:59 PM David Smiley  wrote:
>
> Also reference a bigger discussion of August that same year:
> "SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate Standalone Mode"
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@solr.apache.org
>
> (reading past conversations on a topic should be required reading when
> introducing again)
>
> RE "user-managed" I recall Cassandra was working on the ref guide and
> tried to get us to harmonize on some terminology.  Ultimately "user
> managed" was chosen and thus this term is widespread in the ref guide
> despite "standalone" clearly being used for many years.  Personally, I
> *much* prefer "standalone" and continue to use it (sorry?).
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
> >
> > Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the default 
> > option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
> >  https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
> >
> > Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
> >
> > Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as the 
> > best way to run Solr.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > > 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh :
> > >
> > > During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting to 
> > > SolrCloud mode came up.
> > >
> > > The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an 
> > > embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If 
> > > you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” 
> > > would connect to the external ensemble instead.
> > >
> > > If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then bin/solr 
> > > start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
> > >
> > > Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have both 
> > > SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud content 
> > > is at the top instead of at the bottom.
> > >
> > > To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
> > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
> > >  | My Free/Busy 
> > > 
> > > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
> > > 
> > > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
> > > Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
> > > whether attachments are marked as such.
> > >
> >

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Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[Jan Høydahl]

I too refer to it as "standalone".
"User-managed" was mainly invented to have a name for distributed "standalon", 
in which case standalone could be confused with "singlenode"?

Thanks David for the other list reference. Useful context for sure.

Jan

> 26. feb. 2024 kl. 19:05 skrev Eric Pugh :
> 
> Can you re-share that link to the thread "SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate 
> Standalone Mode”. I took a look and didn’t find it.
> 
> We could change to standalone ;-).  We have a nice glossary in our ref guide 
> https://solr.apache.org/guide/solr/latest/getting-started/solr-glossary.html 
> that doesn’t actually include “Standalone” or “User Managed”.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 26, 2024, at 3:59 PM, David Smiley  wrote:
>> 
>> Also reference a bigger discussion of August that same year:
>> "SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate Standalone Mode"
>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@solr.apache.org
>> 
>> (reading past conversations on a topic should be required reading when
>> introducing again)
>> 
>> RE "user-managed" I recall Cassandra was working on the ref guide and
>> tried to get us to harmonize on some terminology.  Ultimately "user
>> managed" was chosen and thus this term is widespread in the ref guide
>> despite "standalone" clearly being used for many years.  Personally, I
>> *much* prefer "standalone" and continue to use it (sorry?).
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the default 
>>> option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
>>> 
>>> Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
>>> 
>>> Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as the 
>>> best way to run Solr.
>>> 
>>> Jan
>>> 
 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh :
 
 During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting to 
 SolrCloud mode came up.
 
 The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an 
 embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If 
 you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would 
 connect to the external ensemble instead.
 
 If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then bin/solr 
 start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
 
 Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have both 
 SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud content is 
 at the top instead of at the bottom.
 
 To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 Eric
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
 http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
  | My Free/Busy 
 
 Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
 
 This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
 Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
 whether attachments are marked as such.
 
>>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org
>> 
> 
> ___
> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
> http://www.opensourceconnections.com  
> | My Free/Busy   
> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
> 
>   
> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
> Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
> whether attachments are marked as such.
> 


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Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[Eric Pugh]

Can you re-share that link to the thread "SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate Standalone 
Mode”. I took a look and didn’t find it.

We could change to standalone ;-).  We have a nice glossary in our ref guide 
https://solr.apache.org/guide/solr/latest/getting-started/solr-glossary.html 
that doesn’t actually include “Standalone” or “User Managed”.



> On Feb 26, 2024, at 3:59 PM, David Smiley  wrote:
> 
> Also reference a bigger discussion of August that same year:
> "SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate Standalone Mode"
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@solr.apache.org
> 
> (reading past conversations on a topic should be required reading when
> introducing again)
> 
> RE "user-managed" I recall Cassandra was working on the ref guide and
> tried to get us to harmonize on some terminology.  Ultimately "user
> managed" was chosen and thus this term is widespread in the ref guide
> despite "standalone" clearly being used for many years.  Personally, I
> *much* prefer "standalone" and continue to use it (sorry?).
> 
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
>> 
>> Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the default 
>> option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
>> 
>> Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
>> 
>> Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as the 
>> best way to run Solr.
>> 
>> Jan
>> 
>>> 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh :
>>> 
>>> During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting to 
>>> SolrCloud mode came up.
>>> 
>>> The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an 
>>> embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If you 
>>> have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would 
>>> connect to the external ensemble instead.
>>> 
>>> If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then bin/solr 
>>> start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
>>> 
>>> Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have both 
>>> SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud content is 
>>> at the top instead of at the bottom.
>>> 
>>> To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> Eric
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
>>> http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
>>>  | My Free/Busy 
>>> 
>>> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
>>> 
>>> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
>>> Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
>>> whether attachments are marked as such.
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org
> 

___
Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
http://www.opensourceconnections.com  | 
My Free/Busy   
Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 


This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of whether 
attachments are marked as such.

Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[David Smiley]

Also reference a bigger discussion of August that same year:
"SolrCloud Alone: Deprecate Standalone Mode"
https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@solr.apache.org

(reading past conversations on a topic should be required reading when
introducing again)

RE "user-managed" I recall Cassandra was working on the ref guide and
tried to get us to harmonize on some terminology.  Ultimately "user
managed" was chosen and thus this term is widespread in the ref guide
despite "standalone" clearly being used for many years.  Personally, I
*much* prefer "standalone" and continue to use it (sorry?).

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
>
> Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the default 
> option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
>  https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
>
> Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
>
> Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as the 
> best way to run Solr.
>
> Jan
>
> > 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh :
> >
> > During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting to 
> > SolrCloud mode came up.
> >
> > The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an 
> > embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If you 
> > have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would 
> > connect to the external ensemble instead.
> >
> > If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then bin/solr 
> > start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
> >
> > Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have both 
> > SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud content is 
> > at the top instead of at the bottom.
> >
> > To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
> > http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
> >  | My Free/Busy 
> > 
> > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
> > 
> > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
> > Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
> > whether attachments are marked as such.
> >
>

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Re: MixedCase or dashed-case for long options in Solr CLI?

[Walter Underwood]

Long options are dashed-case, following the GNU convention. POSIX only 
specifies single character options. The “—“ prefix for long options is a GNU 
invention, as far as I know. Older Unix commands with long option names, e.g. 
find, only use a single dash.

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Argument-Syntax.html
https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

> On Feb 26, 2024, at 5:29 AM, Eric Pugh  
> wrote:
> 
> I hear a vote for dashed-case, how about some more votes?   —solr-update-url 
> versus —solrUpdateUrl ?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 26, 2024, at 7:29 AM, Jason Gerlowski  wrote:
>> 
>> My guess is that "dashed-case" is slightly more common -- at least,
>> that's my sense from haphazardly checking a few tools I use often
>> ("curl", "kubectl", "git", "docker").
>> 
>> But I don't have an opinion as long as we're internally consistent
>> about using one convention or the other.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 11:35 AM Eric Pugh
>> mailto:ep...@opensourceconnections.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I wanted to get the communities input on formatting of long options for the 
>>> Solr CLI.   I noticed on https://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-cli/ 
>>> that their examples all are —dashed-case.
>>> 
>>> However, we have —solrUrl or —zkHost as our pattern.   Though in working on 
>>> the PostTool, I used —solr-update-url as the parameter because I had been 
>>> reading the commons-cli docs...
>>> 
>>> I’d like to get this sorted so that I can get 
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-16824 over the finish line.   So 
>>> please do speak up with preferences!   (And please let’s not support both!)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The changes to the formatting will be a 10x thing.
>>> 
>>> Eric
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
>>> http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
>>> 
>>>  | My Free/Busy 
>>> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
>>> 
>>> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
>>> Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
>>> whether attachments are marked as such.
>>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org 
>> 
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org 
>> 
> ___
> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
> http://www.opensourceconnections.com  
> | My Free/Busy   
> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
> 
>   
> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
> Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
> whether attachments are marked as such.
> 

Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[Eric Pugh]

I’ll inline my responses...

> On Feb 26, 2024, at 7:34 AM, Arrieta, Alejandro  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Eric,
> 
> 1) The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an
> embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If you
> have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would
> connect to the external ensemble instead.
> If Solrcloud is the new default, this sounds good to me from a user
> perspective.
This is correct.   Jason G and I started looking at how we could handle 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SOLR/SIP-14+Embedded+Zookeeper as 
part of this.

> 
> 2) bin/solr start —standalone
> I have always known the modes as standalone and solrcloud. But current
> documentation uses "user-managed" instead of "standalone":
> https://solr.apache.org/guide/solr/latest/deployment-guide/cluster-types.html#solrcloud-mode
> Mail thread shared by Jan uses "standalone" too.
> IMHO, standalone describes it better, but if all users know it as
> "user-managed" and documentation uses that name.

I have to agree that “standalone” makes more sense to me as well.  I think the 
idea of “user-managed” was to really highlight “hey, you are doing all the 
management of coordination”….  It feels like a bit of very in the weeds 
specification that most folks won’t care about.

> 
> 2) Ref Guide changes to put Solrcloud first and standalone/user-managed
> second.
> Not all docs have solrcloud at the end. Some point to a different page for
> solrcloud at the start, like Backups:
> https://solr.apache.org/guide/solr/latest/deployment-guide/backup-restore.html
> The new/current default should appear first in the documentation, including
> the starting guide. I know from my experience users will not read the
> complete page and use/test the first part.
That’s a great perspective, and I agree.  

> 
> Kind Regards,
> Alejandro Arrieta
> 
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 9:23 AM Jason Gerlowski 
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for the link to that 2021 discussion Jan - had forgotten about that.
>> 
>> I agree that SIP-14 (or some portion of it) goes a long way towards
>> making SolrCloud (w/ embedded ZK) a more serviceable default.
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the
>> default option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
>>> 
>>> Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
>>> 
>>> Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as
>> the best way to run Solr.
>>> 
>>> Jan
>>> 
 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh <
>> ep...@opensourceconnections.com>:
 
 During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting
>> to SolrCloud mode came up.
 
 The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up
>> an embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If
>> you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would
>> connect to the external ensemble instead.
 
 If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then
>> bin/solr start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
 
 Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have
>> both SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud
>> content is at the top instead of at the bottom.
 
 To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 Eric
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467
>> | http://www.opensourceconnections.com <
>> http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy <
>> http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal>
 Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed <
>> https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw
>>> 
 This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to
>> be Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of
>> whether attachments are marked as such.
 
>>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org
>> 
>> 

___
Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
http://www.opensourceconnections.com  | 
My Free/Busy   
Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 


This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
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Re: MixedCase or dashed-case for long options in Solr CLI?

[Eric Pugh]

I hear a vote for dashed-case, how about some more votes?   —solr-update-url 
versus —solrUpdateUrl ?



> On Feb 26, 2024, at 7:29 AM, Jason Gerlowski  wrote:
> 
> My guess is that "dashed-case" is slightly more common -- at least,
> that's my sense from haphazardly checking a few tools I use often
> ("curl", "kubectl", "git", "docker").
> 
> But I don't have an opinion as long as we're internally consistent
> about using one convention or the other.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 11:35 AM Eric Pugh
> mailto:ep...@opensourceconnections.com>> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I wanted to get the communities input on formatting of long options for the 
>> Solr CLI.   I noticed on https://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-cli/ that 
>> their examples all are —dashed-case.
>> 
>> However, we have —solrUrl or —zkHost as our pattern.   Though in working on 
>> the PostTool, I used —solr-update-url as the parameter because I had been 
>> reading the commons-cli docs...
>> 
>> I’d like to get this sorted so that I can get 
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-16824 over the finish line.   So 
>> please do speak up with preferences!   (And please let’s not support both!)
>> 
>> 
>> The changes to the formatting will be a 10x thing.
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> ___
>> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
>> http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
>> 
>>  | My Free/Busy 
>> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
>> 
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Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 


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Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[Arrieta, Alejandro]

 Hello Eric,

1) The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an
embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If you
have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would
connect to the external ensemble instead.
If Solrcloud is the new default, this sounds good to me from a user
perspective.

2) bin/solr start —standalone
I have always known the modes as standalone and solrcloud. But current
documentation uses "user-managed" instead of "standalone":
https://solr.apache.org/guide/solr/latest/deployment-guide/cluster-types.html#solrcloud-mode
Mail thread shared by Jan uses "standalone" too.
IMHO, standalone describes it better, but if all users know it as
"user-managed" and documentation uses that name.

2) Ref Guide changes to put Solrcloud first and standalone/user-managed
second.
Not all docs have solrcloud at the end. Some point to a different page for
solrcloud at the start, like Backups:
https://solr.apache.org/guide/solr/latest/deployment-guide/backup-restore.html
The new/current default should appear first in the documentation, including
the starting guide. I know from my experience users will not read the
complete page and use/test the first part.

Kind Regards,
Alejandro Arrieta

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 9:23 AM Jason Gerlowski 
wrote:

> Thanks for the link to that 2021 discussion Jan - had forgotten about that.
>
> I agree that SIP-14 (or some portion of it) goes a long way towards
> making SolrCloud (w/ embedded ZK) a more serviceable default.
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
> >
> > Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the
> default option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
> >  https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
> >
> > Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
> >
> > Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as
> the best way to run Solr.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > > 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh <
> ep...@opensourceconnections.com>:
> > >
> > > During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting
> to SolrCloud mode came up.
> > >
> > > The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up
> an embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If
> you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would
> connect to the external ensemble instead.
> > >
> > > If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then
> bin/solr start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
> > >
> > > Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have
> both SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud
> content is at the top instead of at the bottom.
> > >
> > > To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467
> | http://www.opensourceconnections.com <
> http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy <
> http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal>
> > > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed <
> https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw
> >
> > > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to
> be Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of
> whether attachments are marked as such.
> > >
> >
>
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>

Re: MixedCase or dashed-case for long options in Solr CLI?

[Jason Gerlowski]

My guess is that "dashed-case" is slightly more common -- at least,
that's my sense from haphazardly checking a few tools I use often
("curl", "kubectl", "git", "docker").

But I don't have an opinion as long as we're internally consistent
about using one convention or the other.

Best,

Jason

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 11:35 AM Eric Pugh
 wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to get the communities input on formatting of long options for the 
> Solr CLI.   I noticed on https://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-cli/ that 
> their examples all are —dashed-case.
>
> However, we have —solrUrl or —zkHost as our pattern.   Though in working on 
> the PostTool, I used —solr-update-url as the parameter because I had been 
> reading the commons-cli docs...
>
> I’d like to get this sorted so that I can get 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-16824 over the finish line.   So 
> please do speak up with preferences!   (And please let’s not support both!)
>
>
> The changes to the formatting will be a 10x thing.
>
> Eric
>
> ___
> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
> http://www.opensourceconnections.com  
> | My Free/Busy 
> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
> 
> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
> Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
> whether attachments are marked as such.
>

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Re: Moving to bin/solr start defaulting to SolrCloud mode?

[Jason Gerlowski]

Thanks for the link to that 2021 discussion Jan - had forgotten about that.

I agree that SIP-14 (or some portion of it) goes a long way towards
making SolrCloud (w/ embedded ZK) a more serviceable default.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:14 PM Jan Høydahl  wrote:
>
> Cross referencing earlier discussion "[DISCUSS] Make Cloud mode the default 
> option in bin/solr" from May 2021:
>  https://lists.apache.org/thread/79xp2xfvqwhr9zccmsvjvj0hckgg5m6w
>
> Some valid arguments for an against in that thread.
>
> Ideally I'd prefer SIP-14 to be done before embedded zk is promoted as the 
> best way to run Solr.
>
> Jan
>
> > 23. feb. 2024 kl. 19:06 skrev Eric Pugh :
> >
> > During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting to 
> > SolrCloud mode came up.
> >
> > The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up an 
> > embedded zookeeper.   Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5.If you 
> > have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would 
> > connect to the external ensemble instead.
> >
> > If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then bin/solr 
> > start —user-managed maybe?   Or bin/solr start —standalone ???
> >
> > Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have both 
> > SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud content is 
> > at the top instead of at the bottom.
> >
> > To me, this feels like a change that would go on main.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | 
> > http://www.opensourceconnections.com 
> >  | My Free/Busy 
> > 
> > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed 
> > 
> > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be 
> > Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of 
> > whether attachments are marked as such.
> >
>

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