Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Yes but he is entitled to his opinion... wether it is good or bad! There is no need to insult him! Ross Laver [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I think Ken's motives have been clear from the moment he popped up on this list. And they clearly have nothing to do with helping the open source community. Ross Ken Yuinipo wrote: Ok Charlie, then why wasn't the IPSEC VPN Service released GPL? I don't mean SWAN... there was NO support from Esmith re: the IPSEC/SWAN stuff on the devinfo list. The truth is managagement gave you the green light on your log program because log programs don't threaten the bottom line. Am I right? Charlie, I believe that you take GPL very seriously, but frankly you are not in charge. Ken Y. Did anyone look at the license on my view log files add-on released (with management blessing) on Friday? Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Ross Laver Director, Marketing Communications Mitel Networks - Network Server Solutions Group direct: +1.613.368.4384 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Regards Brandon Friedman Product Manager Tech-Knowledgy Advantage Ph: +27 (011) 486-0626 Fax: +27 (011) 486-0629 Cell: +27 (083) 408-7840 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.techknowledgy.co.za PO Box 1909, Houghton, 2041 South Africa No. 1 Mowbray Road, Greenside, Johannesburg, South Africa e-smith Authorised Partners -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Are there any significant feature changes to the core server or just the addition of the services and underlying design? Justin. -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Subscription fees? That's some expensive DNS monitoring fees. The only customers who are going to pay this outragous fee is big business, which makes sense for Mitel. SME Server V5 (or whatever you call it now) smells a lot like Windows XP... Yes, let us RENT you our SERVICES/ADDITIONAL FEATURES. Make all checks payable to e-smith inc.. Oh, so that's what the whole e-smith gang has been working on so hard lately... but of course we can't forget Charlie's open-source log panel in the e-smith manager. Ken. From: Kirrily Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:21:13 -0400 Folks, Mitel Networks is pleased to announce the forthcoming release of SME Server V5 (the product formerly known as the e-smith server and gateway) with ServiceLink (a suite of services related to managing your server). From the press release: OTTAWA, Ont.- Aug. 22, 2001 - The Network Server Solutions Group of Mitel Networks Corporation, formerly e-smith, inc., today announced its groundbreaking network and security solution for small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and remote offices. This new solution, SME Server V5 with ServiceLink, brings together award-winning Linux-based server software with advanced network-delivered services to provide unparalleled network security and reliability. The introduction of SME Server V5 with ServiceLink represents a new class of offering in the small business server arena. It combines a secure, robust network server with enhanced functionality that can only be provided via an integrated network-connected service. Through ServiceLink, customers receive 24 x 7 server monitoring and reports, virus protection with automatic updates, point-and-click IPSEC Virtual Private Networks, DNS services and guaranteed email. Together, these services improve the security, reliability and performance of the customer's network to levels previously associated with large enterprises. The complete package is available to customers at an entry price of $595 (U.S.) for a three-month subscription. (for more see http://www.e-smith.com/news/news_220801.php) Quite a few of you (our partners, specifically) have been involved in the beta testing process for this, and the rest of you may at least recall the email I sent round a few months ago describing future directions. But just to provide a quick overview for everyone: - SME Server V5 is basically the e-smith sg version 5. It's open source as always, and will be available for download Real Soon Now (2 weeks). The major change you'll notice is that it no longer has the e-smith brand, and of course there are a variety of improvements, especially under the hood, but basically it's pretty much what you're used to. - ServiceLink is a suite of services/applications/etc which are add-ons to the basic open source server system. Basically, now we have a fairly stable server platform, we're using it as the foundation for building more specialised applications, and this is how we're delivering them. - The services provided by ServiceLink are: 24 x 7 Alerts and Reporting Virus Protection Guaranteed Email DNS Services IPSEC VPN Service These are delivered and administered via the Network Operations Centre (NOC) which we've set up. We charge for these services, and the software is proprietary, but they're *separate* from the underlying server software, which has *not* been made proprietary in any way. - Additionally, V5 introduces the concept of blades which are add-on applications. The ServiceLink software is actually a set of blades, and just about any add-on software can be turned into a blade. It's the natural extension of our contrib RPM collection from earlier versions, but much, much slicker. Stand by for a bunch of docs and information about how this all works and how to turn contrib RPMs or any other software into blades. We're hoping to make it as easy (easier in fact) to add software to the server as it's ever been, and the blades architecture's going to be as open as possible to help you do that. Anyway, you'll get to see it all soon, and I think everyone'll be pretty excited for it. We're sorry we couldn't make the beta more widely available for download and fiddling, but we had to make sure of some licensing issues before we could make it available for general download. K. -- Kirrily Skud Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developer website: http://www.e-smith.org Corporate website: http://www.e-smith.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
I was wondering who would go first :) Subscription fees? That's some expensive DNS monitoring fees. The only customers who are going to pay this outragous fee is big business, which makes sense for Mitel. I have two comments here. There is much more than just DNS monitoring. It looks like there will be an Intrustion Detection System (hopefully both network and host based), better VPN support, and some guaranteed availability services. The monitoring is a bit vague it can mean anything from Counterpane to Joe's cousin down the street pinging servers - I am going to hold off on that one. As far as pricing I also think it is a bit steep at this point for many companies but it all depends on what these services are. If they are enterprise services this is a bargain. If they are SMB services - it may be tight. Regardless - e-smith has to charge for something at some point so if this is means survival and a v6.0 some day, so be it. SME Server V5 (or whatever you call it now) smells a lot like Windows XP... Yes, let us RENT you our SERVICES/ADDITIONAL FEATURES. Make all checks payable to e-smith inc.. This isn't necessarily a bad idea. Again - it all comes down to pricing. Oh, so that's what the whole e-smith gang has been working on so hard lately... but of course we can't forget Charlie's open-source log panel in the e-smith manager. I suspect the developers have very little say in e-smith the business. I don't think it necessary to drag them into this. They are still free to release other GPL packages on their own (I hope). My question is in regards to the GPL licensing with this. What happens if someone releases the exact same blade as a GPL version or for $50/quarter instead of $500. Will this void support contracts etc? -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
I'm assuming that the subscription fees are if the end user buys direct from Mitel/E-smith. I would also assume Mitel will charge the integrators less for the subscription and they they set their own price for their customers, just like in the past. Service link is a value add for all. It doesn't smell at all like XP, because you can still have a choice as to what you install, run, etc. Whereas XP, without your choice or decision, will, with direction from Redmond, prohibit you from installing certain software/hardware if MS sees fit. That is really an unfair comparison. The reality of the situation is that companies are in business to make money, and volunteer effort/programming, while it does produce some good products, doesn't always produce software that businesses need. Mitel, IMHO, is trying to do a balancing act between the two, still offereing the base product for free, but trying to do a value add for businesses who don't have the time or resources to manage those items themselves, yet identify that they have the need. Additionally, Mitel is trying to build it's channel of integrators, because, as they quote in their release on SV5, most small/medium businesses want someone local they can build a relationship with who will help them along the way. And lets not forget that, Mitel isn't the sole source of these services/addons. (unlike XP/Redmond) Many of the features listed in the servicelink addon have been available as seperate packages from other sources. There is nothing to stop a customer or integrator from adding these themselves. Yes, I think this is a far different experience than XP. bh Ken Yuinipo wrote: Subscription fees? That's some expensive DNS monitoring fees. The only customers who are going to pay this outragous fee is big business, which makes sense for Mitel. SME Server V5 (or whatever you call it now) smells a lot like Windows XP... Yes, let us RENT you our SERVICES/ADDITIONAL FEATURES. Make all checks payable to e-smith inc.. Oh, so that's what the whole e-smith gang has been working on so hard lately... but of course we can't forget Charlie's open-source log panel in the e-smith manager. Ken. -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
The price seems to have gone through the roof. Can customers still only purchase support or has the price really gone up by 400% ? If the later is the case then this product will now be out of reach of many small businesses. The idea of additional services that could be offered is a great idea but if the basic package of 12 months support for £595 has gone then so will many of the customers. -Original Message- From: Justin Funke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 August 2001 15:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced Are there any significant feature changes to the core server or just the addition of the services and underlying design? Justin. -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Blades sound a lot like un-GPL contribs. Watch out developers, you might get dragged into court by e-smith/Mitel. Jason, you go ahead and try undercut e-smith and you will see what might happen. By The Way: Blades sound a lot like Sun's SunBlade UNIX Workstations. My question is in regards to the GPL licensing with this. What happens if someone releases the exact same blade as a GPL version or for $50/quarter instead of $500. Will this void support contracts etc? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
The reality is businesses pay developers money. Everyone works for free on ES, ES sold out to an 800lb gorilla (Mitel) and now you are feeding us this GPL/opensource garbage, Blake? Get real. Mitel's investors are not going to be happy if they hear the word linux or opensource mentioned in their board room. They want to hear unfair competitive advantages and other exec-speak. Mitel is stuck with most of the ES linux package as GPL. But everything else from now on is going to become propietary (you know with patents, trademarks, lawyers, etc). I know ES has to make money, and so does Mitel. Just don't believe everything their PR dept. is pumping out. I would do the same thing if I was Mitel. Ken Y. The reality of the situation is that companies are in business to make money, and volunteer effort/programming, while it does produce some good products, doesn't always produce software that businesses need. Mitel, IMHO, is trying to do a balancing act between the two, still offereing the base product for free, but trying to do a value add for businesses who don't have the time or resources to manage those items themselves, yet identify that they have the need. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
I hope that you are wrong about this Ken... can anybody confirm? Mitel is stuck with most of the ES linux package as GPL. But everything else from now on is going to become propietary (you know with patents, trademarks, lawyers, etc). -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Trevor Ouellette wrote: I hope that you are wrong about this Ken... can anybody confirm? Mitel is stuck with most of the ES linux package as GPL. But everything else from now on is going to become propietary (you know with patents, trademarks, lawyers, etc). Did anyone look at the license on my view log files add-on released (with management blessing) on Friday? Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Ken, I am often surprised at your posts. Blades sound a lot like un-GPL contribs. Watch out developers, you might get dragged into court by e-smith/Mitel. You know, the original e-smith server was created in its entirety by Joe Morrison - by himself and on his own time - and unlike Cobalt, NetWinder and all those other appliances - he released the whole thing into the GPL and set out to build a profitable business that existed in harmony with open source. Any benefit you get from the e-smith project has - at its root - what Joe did, and from that point going forward, the on-going contributions of other community members. I assume you get some benefit from it or you wouldn't hang out on a mailing list you so happily whine on. Your continued antagonism baffles me and frankly pisses me off because it's not justified. Do you think we are funded by some social organization to help you personally out of the goodness of our hearts? We are a business committed to being profitable using a business model that exists in harmony with open source. Is there an example of a company out there that could sponsor an open source project that wouldn't be the object of derision for you? What on earth are your expectations? Jason, you go ahead and try undercut e-smith and you will see what might happen. Blades can be either GPL or proprietary. Take our GPL code and make it proprietary, and you're right - we'll come after you. Compete with us in good faith or derive business by creating products or services on our platform or deploying our solution, then we actually wish you well as someone validating what we are doing. My question is in regards to the GPL licensing with this. What happens if someone releases the exact same blade as a GPL version or for $50/quarter instead of $500. Will this void support contracts etc? If we create a proprietary blade, and someone steals our property then we will protect our IP rights, of course. But many of our blades will be GPL'd, many will be proprietary belonging to us, and many will be proprietary belonging to other companies. The diversity of the offering benefits everyone. We are bound to and we are committed to keeping the server GPL'd and continuing to support this open source community, which we view as such an important part of what we do. -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Ok Charlie, then why wasn't the IPSEC VPN Service released GPL? I don't mean SWAN... there was NO support from Esmith re: the IPSEC/SWAN stuff on the devinfo list. The truth is managagement gave you the green light on your log program because log programs don't threaten the bottom line. Am I right? Charlie, I believe that you take GPL very seriously, but frankly you are not in charge. Ken Y. Did anyone look at the license on my view log files add-on released (with management blessing) on Friday? Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
I believe that you take GPL very seriously, but frankly you are not in charge. No, but I am. We don't need to release everything we do by ourselves to the GPL in order to support open source. We have created a *service* around providing IPSEC VPN with pattern updates for which we charge. Part of that service involves proprietary code. Ken, I invite you to do a FreeSWAN blade. Assuming it's of good quality, we'll host it on our NOC. - Kim - Original Message - From: Ken Yuinipo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced Ok Charlie, then why wasn't the IPSEC VPN Service released GPL? I don't mean SWAN... there was NO support from Esmith re: the IPSEC/SWAN stuff on the devinfo list. The truth is managagement gave you the green light on your log program because log programs don't threaten the bottom line. Am I right? Charlie, I believe that you take GPL very seriously, but frankly you are not in charge. Ken Y. Did anyone look at the license on my view log files add-on released (with management blessing) on Friday? Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 04:13:14PM +, Ken Yuinipo wrote: The reality is businesses pay developers money. Everyone works for free on ES, Huh? e-smith, prior to its acquisition by Mitel, employed a team of developers... who are *still* employed by Mitel. Nothing's changed. Mitel is stuck with most of the ES linux package as GPL. But everything else from now on is going to become propietary (you know with patents, trademarks, lawyers, etc). The SME Server V5 was well into development long before the Mitel acquisition, and in fact the whole package of the open platform as a foundation for a range of add-ons was what they found attractive. Having the open platform is a *good* thing from the perspective of business (e-smith, Mitel, whoever), because it encourages people to try it out and lowers the barrier to entry for people who want to use our platform in (hopefully mutually profitable) ways. Mitel see the value in that, and want to keep it that way. Ken, I've never seen you say a single useful or positive thing on this list. The only time you say anything is when you want to bash us for some licensing issue which, on every occasion, you have misunderstood and continued to wilfully misunderstand even after we explain it to you in small words. Please try to get a clue. K. -- Kirrily Skud Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developer website: http://www.e-smith.org Corporate website: http://www.e-smith.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
I think Ken's motives have been clear from the moment he popped up on this list. And they clearly have nothing to do with helping the open source community. Ross Ken Yuinipo wrote: Ok Charlie, then why wasn't the IPSEC VPN Service released GPL? I don't mean SWAN... there was NO support from Esmith re: the IPSEC/SWAN stuff on the devinfo list. The truth is managagement gave you the green light on your log program because log programs don't threaten the bottom line. Am I right? Charlie, I believe that you take GPL very seriously, but frankly you are not in charge. Ken Y. Did anyone look at the license on my view log files add-on released (with management blessing) on Friday? Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org -- Ross Laver Director, Marketing Communications Mitel Networks - Network Server Solutions Group direct: +1.613.368.4384 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
As an employee of a company with hundreds of millions in revenue that is building upon e-smith as a core component of its future plans, and as the person who is the principle technical liason e-smith/Mitel, and as a person who has a lot riding on VME Server V5 both at my day job and what is soon to be my evening job, all I can say is this: Get a grip! (Everyone, but especially the Kens out there.) Look, I wanted to say this earlier but didn't want to disclose anything, but now that Kirrily has let the cat out of the bag I'll take a whack at it. She said: -Original Message- From: Kirrily Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 12:38 PM [clip, clip, clip] The SME Server V5 was well into development long before the Mitel acquisition, and in fact the whole package of the open platform as a foundation for a range of add-ons was what they found attractive. There appears to be some feeling that SME Server V5 is some evil manifestation of the wicked Mitel suits. BUNK! Do you think e-smith evolved from 4.1.2 to SME5 just since the acquisition? What planet are you guys from? Development of this magnitude takes MANY MONTHS not a few weeks. I'm fairly confident that if the Mitel acquisition had not happened that we would be seeing e-smith 5.0 in pretty much the same form at pretty much the same price point, just without the name change. In fact, I'm not just fairly confident, I'm VERY confident. From my perspective, looking at a future that involves the rollout of thousands of e-smith/Mitel systems over the next couple of years (my day job), about the ONLY thing that has changed is the name. (Oh, there is the much more attractive, if less informative, home page! Was that hand coded, or done with a nuke-ish package?) There is one other significant change -- the people formerly known as e-smith now have the resources, financial and technical and marketing, to really start growing their product. I for one don't consider that to be a bad thing. Don't like it, you say? Feeling sold out to the money-grubbing corporations? Pissed off that someone might actually make some money off of open source? Well, there are other options. Who's twisting your arm to hang out here and bitch? Or is it that you, as the old cigarette ads used to say, would rather fight than switch? Scott -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Quoting Ken Yuinipo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Blades sound a lot like un-GPL contribs. Watch out developers, you might get dragged into court by e-smith/Mitel. Jason, you go ahead and try undercut e-smith and you will see what might happen. Charlie, Kim, and Kirrily have already responded to your posts, but you'll probably just dismiss their responses as being shills for Mitel or some such. So, on the off chance that you might pay some attention to an outsider, I'll toss in my two cents: If you can't come up with something constructive to say, or at least something with a reasonable factual basis, then shut up and go away. Your last few messages have been pure FUD, of the sort more commonly associated with Microsoft. That's not to say that I'm entirely happy with the v5 setup--I'd like to have the option of personal use for the antivirus, for example. As it is, there's no way I'll pay $2400/year for these services on a server that serves only me--but I'm not the target market for these things. -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring. --The Judgment of St. Collum Cille -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
[e-smith-devinfo] e-smith.com (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced)
Smith, Jeffery S (Scott) wrote: snip (Oh, there is the much more attractive, if less informative, home page! Was that hand coded, or done with a nuke-ish package?) Lovingly hand-crafted. Take a bow, Dan McGarry :-) Ross -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
-Original Message- From: Dan Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 1:12 PM Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced That's not to say that I'm entirely happy with the v5 setup--I'd like to have the option of personal use for the antivirus, for example. As it is, there's no way I'll pay $2400/year for these services on a server that serves only me--but I'm not the target market for these things. Dan, I'm with you there. The complete package has clearly shifted markets and is targeted to a slightly more upscale audience -- ie, those businesses who can afford to pay and therefore generate revenue for the channel (partner) market. But, that is the name of the game. Money must be made, else we'll have a php-nuke vs myphpnuke vs postnuke kind of scenario. I was hoping the price point would have been more in the $1500 per year range. I've been working on a business model that used that assumption, which I'll now have to rework. But only slightly, as the revenue from hw/sw is dwarfed by the revenue from services. If I only had hw/sw revenue, I'd have to move 100 or so systems per month in order to make a go of it. With services, I only need 100 or so customers TOTAL. So, an extra $1000/year or so is unexpected, but probably not a show stopper. On the other hand, it does remove home and very small business users as potential clients. I don't know if there is a plan to continue the $595/yr support for just the base package w/o ServiceLink -- to me it sounds like a good plan, but that is up to Joe/Kim/whomever makes those decisions. As to AV support, I believe contribs are still an option (a welcomed one) with SME5. Maybe the answer for the home and very small business users lies in that arena. Scott -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] e-smith.com (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced)
Lovingly hand-crafted. Take a bow, Dan McGarry :-) Agreed, very nice Dan. - Now back to this blade thing. Please excuse my lack of understanding on the details of GPL I've never had to read this deep into it before. Say I write a package that integrates an IDS into the VME5. If it is at all based on any GPL code I am required to license it as GPL and not sell it as a blade.(I think) This leads me to understand that e-smith is developing their ServiceLink code from scratch, which I have no doubt they are quite capable of. Is it the monitoring code that is going to be propietary or the code of the entire software add-on (both the service and the servicelink)? Snort is an excellent example for this. Say I release SNORT as a GPL blade. Would I then release the updating software and monitoring as a propietary blade? Thanks, Justin. -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
[e-smith-devinfo] RE: e-smith.com (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced)
-Original Message- From: Ross Laver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: e-smith.com (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced) (Oh, there is the much more attractive, if less informative, home page! Was that hand coded, or done with a nuke-ish package?) Lovingly hand-crafted. Take a bow, Dan McGarry :-) Darn! I was hoping that was the work of some slick package. Now I'll have to figure out how to make this work: [root]# rpm -Uvh mitel-dan-mcgarry-html-wizard-0.1.1.rpm [root]# mcgarry --option read_my_mind --action create_web_site --level win_prestigious_award --refresh daily ;-) Scott -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Smith, Jeffery S (Scott) wrote: snip On the other hand, it does remove home and very small business users as potential clients. It may preclude home users as potential clients, but it doesn't *remove* them, inasmuch as we don't currently have any home user customers and we've never gone after home users as a market. Speaking for my colleagues, I think I can say that going after the small/medium business market is a full-time job, thank you very much :-) Ross -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
Being a developer myself and managing a few open source projects, http://myphpnuke.com is just one of them, it always amazes me how quickly people turn. The point is, e-smith has been here to make money from day one. If you don't want to help them make money, have a problem with it, or just aren't interested, leave. Start your own...whatever. Just try to understand that you are not the only person in this world with a family and monthly bills. E-smith has and will continue to do what they must to make it all work for themselves, as a company. I trust and support that they will do that with an understanding of how it affects their user base. Garret http://myphpnuke.com Ross Laver [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I think Ken's motives have been clear from the moment he popped up on this list. And they clearly have nothing to do with helping the open source community. Ross -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] e-smith.com (was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced)
On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:35:25PM -0500, Justin Funke wrote: Say I write a package that integrates an IDS into the VME5. If it is at all based on any GPL code I am required to license it as GPL and not sell it as a blade.(I think) Nope. You license it under the GPL, but may *also* sell it if you want to, as long as you make the source available and redistributable to the people you sell it to. Admittedly this is kind of pointless in most cases, but then some people have tried to do it -- witness various Linux distros and other CDs of GPL'd software. Also, the words ... at all based on any GPL code ... are a bit blurry. There are some mechanisms by which the GPL infects and some mechanisms by which it does not. To give an example, running a GPL'd program via a pipe on the command line does not infect the other programs in that pipe. Another example is that compiling a program using a GPL'd compiler does not infect the compiled program. But that's a whole nother story, and let's not go there. Followups on licensing issues to gnu.license.flame.flame.flame please :) This leads me to understand that e-smith is developing their ServiceLink code from scratch, which I have no doubt they are quite capable of. Yup, as it happens you're right there. Snort is an excellent example for this. Say I release SNORT as a GPL blade. Would I then release the updating software and monitoring as a propietary blade? Yup, you could do that. K. -- Kirrily Skud Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developer website: http://www.e-smith.org Corporate website: http://www.e-smith.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
We pay $50/client for an ipsec vpn client and a few thousand for a firewall. If e-smith creates a ipsec vpn solution you better believe they have a right to charge for it. E-smith is about simplfying many of the processess. Have you ever created an ipsec-tunnel manually? I have and it wasn't fun and took more hours than I'd care to admit. On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:30:54 -0400 Kim Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I believe that you take GPL very seriously, but frankly you are not in | charge. | | No, but I am. | | We don't need to release everything we do by ourselves to the GPL in order | to support open source. We have created a *service* around providing IPSEC | VPN with pattern updates for which we charge. Part of that service | involves | proprietary code. | | Ken, I invite you to do a FreeSWAN blade. Assuming it's of good quality, | we'll host it on our NOC. | | - Kim | | - Original Message - | From: Ken Yuinipo [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 12:31 PM | Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced | | | Ok Charlie, then why wasn't the IPSEC VPN Service released GPL? I don't | mean SWAN... there was NO support from Esmith re: the IPSEC/SWAN stuff | on | the devinfo list. | adam http://pbase.com/mrbass -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ross Laver [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Smith, Jeffery S (Scott) wrote: snip On the other hand, it does remove home and very small business users as potential clients. It may preclude home users as potential clients, but it doesn't *remove* them, inasmuch as we don't currently have any home user customers and we've never gone after home users as a market. Speaking for my colleagues, I think I can say that going after the small/medium business market is a full-time job, thank you very much :-) Ross -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org Not quite true I am a fully paid up with a support contract home user. -- Timothy Pugh -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME Server V5 with ServiceLink announced
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Smith, Jeffery S (Scott) wrote: On the other hand, it does remove home and very small business users as potential clients. remove? I don't think so. Almost none of my existing or potential clients can afford the NOC services version 5 offers, but that doesn't make the offering without NOS services just as attractive as it always has been. -=-=-==-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Graeme Robinson - Graenet consulting www.graenet.com - internet solutions -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==---=-=--=-=-= -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
