Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
Let's simplify. Ismael Peña-López wrote: I'd second Andy's proposal to recruit some volunteers and let the list run (smoothly) for a while. i. Forgive me. That was Andy's proposal when DDN left Benton, and there was a sincere attempt to do that to some degree. It didn't work then, it hasn't worked since, and I am wondering how it will work now. Sure, back in 1999 we had less tech. We also had less distractive technology. This may seem somewhat counter to the context of the list itself, but just because we have technology doesn't mean we have to use it all the time. Fired are good for cooking, but people who use them too much are called arsonists... if you take my point. -- -- Taran Rampersad taran.a.ramper...@gmail.com http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-requ...@digitaldivide.net with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
I share your perspective, Tom. What would we get? That is what we're supposed to be considering as well. My thoughts are a common, centralized area owned by the community but using all tools available externally. There was a time when this list was a thriving cornucopia of ideas, thoughts, and much more. And I wonder whether people are still interested in that sort of discussion. tom abeles wrote: Hi Cindy First, on charging a ¨fee¨. Tax Deductable? As my farmer brother-in-law says ¨deductable against what? Second, given networking in the web 2.0 world with U-Tube, Twitter, Linkedin, Wiki´s and so many other social networks, what do we get for a fee that this list and other tagged, networked, distributed and . . . systems don´t give for free. Fees are the equivalent of the Great Wall that walls information out and not in. It creates filters that are normally made by those on the net who choose how to access and limit access to the one non-leveragable commodity, TIME. And that is the individual´s responsibility. thoughts? tom -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
/me hums Drupal's theme at Tobias as well. Tobias Eigen wrote: Thanks Adam - this is all very interesting. I think the biggest problem I am seeing is that emails get stacked up for approval - this really limits any real discussion that might take place here on this list. I'd propose either opening it up or recruiting some volunteers to help manage the approval queue on a daily if not more regular basis. The ning idea is a good one, especially since it's a free (advertising driven) platform. I believe educators can get advertising-free spaces. Another platform well suited for email-empowered online communities is golightly, used at http://groups.nten.org If you are really concerned about costs for DDN into the future, then rolling your own site might not be a great idea. Cheers, Tobias On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the responses to our idea of what to do with DDN :) To clear somethings up: -Tobias asked if the donation for membership is voluntary or not. We have no intention of charging people to access DDN. What we do want to do is identify people who are financial supporters of DDN. We don't have a donation system set up yet because we wanted to make sure that it was a good idea first. -The wiki issue is being looked into. The system should be able to handle your existing DDN login information so you don't have to create two accounts and login to both all the time. -Taran's idea of GoogleAds is interesting and we'll have our tech team see how easy it is to implement. Which should be very easy. The hard part will be finding a space for them as we don't want GoogleAds on the front page of DDN has it may make the site look less credible. Any thoughts on that note? -Many people have suggested moving DDN to a new system. This is just as hard (or even harder) than keeping our current system running. We've though about this at TIG and were moving ahead with our system because it is the easiest for our developers to work on. Adam Clare ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
tom abeles wrote: this conversation in several variances is being considered currently elsewhere on the net, particularly around the issue of virtual worlds Yes, and virtual worlds are a topic which have been severely overlooked in much discussion related to the digital divide - perhaps because infrastructure lags so much that it isn't even seen as an issue. Steve's example is right on target. academics hold the center stage because they control the grades/certification which provide for student advancement. That is the one unique product that universities, in click or brick space have to offer. And it is the one reason in the dominant US model that get's student attention for the sage on the stage Yes, I agree - though I have a clear bias as an autodidact. But even as an autodidact, I admit and perhaps even celebrate the sage - but sometimes the sage is not in the nestled cave of academia but instead is the person next to you, literally or figuratively. And this is where collaboration comes in - the sages are all over. The trouble is finding the good sages - and not everyone can find the good sages since not everyone considers critical thought and challenging of the sages as good practice. Sages, sages, sages. What we're really talking about is osmosis; the moving of knowledge through a permeable membrane. And let's be fair - people, like water, have a tendency to take the shortest route unless there is some culture that enforces the longer route. 'Here there be dragons', that sort of thing. So here's a good question for people in and out of academia: Which membrane is more permeable, the academic institution or the sea of knowledge (with admitted large portions of debris, some toxic)? What business has found out, as have many others, is that social networks (those articles that Steve cites as examples) allow knowledge to be gained in entirely different and collaborative fashion, a fashion that academics might call cheating or disrespectful of the sage. While, Mark is right, that these technologies will find a place in The Academy, they are, almost more importantly, a mirror for the educational system which passively makes the point that Steve so eloquently made. The brick space structure with the sage is a vestigial manifestation of the good old days, going back to pre-print where knowledge was transmitted by those who had the information stored in their heads or had access to the very few collections of knowledge such as the libraries of Alexandria. And those few collections of information were only available to the select few - and those few taught their own perspectives of what they read instead of opening the information to be challenged. It is not important that universities adopt the technologies as much as that they realize that, all factors considered, a brick space campus in its current embodiment is probably untenable- note the increasing cost in human lives (adjucnts) and rising tuition. And not to forget the decreased affordability due to large portions of the population not having as much buying power with recent developments in the global economy. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
tom abeles wrote: How long before we figure out that brick-spaces dedicated only for educational purposes need to be repurposed in order to better meet what they are delivering almost like zombies walking down the street. What virtual larning options do is to point out that the current model is like the consumptive in Poe's short story of Valdemer. A snap of the fingers will break the trance and the system will plunge into chaos. The people who have a vested interest in the status quo and the idea of mapping technology in the schools are the schools of education who have no other model. They are like the brakemen in the caboose or the last flight engineer in the 3 person cockpits of modern airliners. thoughts? This smacks of Metzger's 'Academic Freedom in the Age of the University', written in the early 1970s (1971, I believe). And it makes sense, especially in the modern context. Lehrfreheit and Lernfreheit are important factors often overlooked - and were a fair part of the German University, which the American University was modeled after. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: The problem of context has dogged Western-driven development since the 1950s, and brought the demise of many expensive projects. I guess that's why the World Bank finally started hiring anthropologists in the 1980s--to get some folks with the ability to see and understand context. Indeed. Context is king in just about everything - from interface design to implementing solutions in *any* environment. In the context of the digital divide, understanding the person using the computer is not enough - it never has been. Solutions come from a deep understanding of not only how people do things, but why. The 'how' is simple enough, the 'why' is not. Economics, culture and even personal biases (changeable and unchangeable) are key. As a humorous side note, I must wonder who studies the habits of anthropologists. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Paperless Homework wrote: Until such is addressed, the digital divides we talked about will remain. It is not the hardware, it is the software. Perhaps this is so, but I believe that telecommunications policy and pricing is actually more of an issue. Software helps, but infrastructure is necessary for the software and hardware to work. Improper policy surrounding infrastructure seems to be a problem in many countries where I have had my feet on the ground and PC on my lap - this being Latin America and the Caribbean. From what I have read and heard, other parts of the world are quite similar in this respect. And so, there I go... beating that policy drum again... (sorry) -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Norbert Bollow wrote: Yes, sure, but at the same time, it makes sense with respect to any given project to limit attention to what can conceivably be affected (positively or negatively) by that project. Being a pragmatist, I agree with you to an extent. However in this context, limiting the attention to what can be conceivably be affected would include the users rights as well. If we toss those out, we're really not trying to solve the problem on hand - just the symptoms. Let's consider for a moment the quotation from the High Tech No Rights? roundatable http://www.archive.org/details/hightechnorights_geneva which Claude Almansi gave in her recent posting: Despite the positive inputs from more progressive brands beginning early 2007, long-term problems still persisted in their Chinese supplier factories. They include substandard wages, excessive work hours, poor occupational health and safety, no rights to employment contracts and resignation, and no communication of corporate codes of conduct to workers. I would suggest that this sounds very much like a modern form of slavery. Actually, I think it more akin to indentured labor, but the point remains the same. In my opinion, silently accepting this kind of situation is very clearly totally unacceptable when one is at the same time making use of technical equipment from these sources. And yet the source is itself a developing country with a digital divide of it's own. That very same country employs people to 'work' in virtual worlds by 'farming' products that are otherwise difficult to get. The point is that the technical knowledge necessary to create those things is actually something that is not a bad thing. While I do have issues about China's occupation of Tibet, I do not believe that they have guns to the heads of Tibetan Buddhist Monks to produce cheap laptops. Indeed, entrepreneurship in China has increased - something noteworthy in a communist country. Things are changing, and those things may not be fast enough - but they are changing. In contrast, unemployed consumers of products in the United States may well envy having income that the employees of a Chinese manufacturer have. By the same logic, too, people probably shouldn't eat bananas or drink coffee. Or use any form of petroleum. I would say that this is a matter of principle which is totally independent of whether there are others on the planet who are even worse off... I cannot agree. We are all connected, even if we do not recognize it. A person in China makes parts of technology we all use. A person in India/Russia writes a part of software that we may use. A media outlet in the United States can make or break a product (or even get the public behind a war with no evidence). A diamond bought from South Africa may have blood on it. Pitch used on roads throughout the world is connected to Trinidad and Tobago. Aid from any number of people goes to countries based on which country has the most press pushing for aid. In simplifying, are we solving the equation or are we making an equation we are comfortable solving? In other words, I would suggest to interpret human rights as an obligation to insist that one's (direct and indirect) trade partners should verifiably adhere to resonable standards of conduct in how they treat people. Then it must be done universally - not selectively. Take a look around your house and really think about where stuff comes from. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: Marketing and corporate success can't be judged in isolation from the values that power them. To at least a few, the values that power the word marketing and the phrase corporate success are implicit due to heuristics. Your point is valid, but changing the values does not excuse the use of the terms without proper qualification. Legitimate questions are: What ends is marketing being used for? How do it affect the well-being of the society? Is marketing responsible, truthful, positive? Same for corporate success: How does it help or hinder the goals of a people? Who is enriched, and who, if anyone, is made poorer? Take a look around. :-) This sort of analysis is especially important in emerging economies where many people live in poverty. I'd offer that it's not of specific importance in emerging economies but is of general importance in all economies - and especially in the global economy. The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes I'd offer that this quote doesn't take in the context the digital divide, but is a supreme motivator in assuring the bridging of it. :-) -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Oddly enough, this morning I came across a true '$100 PC' in catching up on a few things: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9413803799.html?kc=rss In October, Shenzhen China-based HiVision will ship a MIPs-based Linux mini-notebook for $98. The company is currently offering a similar machine for $120, according to a video blog report from the /Internationale Funkausstellunga/ (IFA) consumer electronics show in Berlin this week ...The NB0700 pictured at right offers 512MB DDR2, a 30GB hard drive, and a 7-inch 800x480 backlit display. Other features include an Ethernet port, 802.11 b/g WiFi, two USB 2.0 ports, an SD card reader, microphone and speakers, and VGA output. The NB0700 is said to offer three hours of battery life and weighs just under two pounds (900 grams). The site does not specify what type of Linux is used... Magda Pischetola wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
That it is more robust certainly is nice. However, the fact that infrastructure development is robbed by a well marketed feature filled (narrated below) *product* does not mean that it will solve anything. Odd that the iPhone was brought up - it has had such good marketing that people are buying it even in areas where the features don't work. If that's not corporate success, I don't know what is. But we're not talking about corporate success or are we? It seems to me that the mission of education and the closing of the digital divide have different goals when compared to corporate interests. The proof will be in the pudding. I'd like to hear success in any way, but I am fairly certain that the successes will mainly be seen in areas that... already have the necessary infrastructure in place. And in the long term, I have sincere doubts as to whether the OLPC will create employment for people once they do become computer literate in the context of the OLPC - or outside of the context. Good technology, but I seriously question the use of it. Satish Jha wrote: Magda, There is a bit of difference between making a PC and a learning PC for children. What we know as OLPC, without a dozen feature it has that do not come bundled with any other laptop, can be manufactured below $100. But add ruggedness, no moving parts, mesh networking, dual boot system, a screen that works well under the sun, a keyboard that is spill proof, a built in camera, a swiveling screen and an e-book feature and we are talking a serious package. retaining costs at $200 after adding all that narrated above and more is a feat in itself.. So OLPC is no ordinary laptop and the next version will be to laptops what i-phone is to cell phones and for less.. That said, we should encourage every initiative to reduce costs as the lower price points will undoubtedly increase the reach of computing, opening every newer frontier with drop in prices.. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Google Insights - social networking
vs mobiles, empowerment of developing countries or general feline policy? It's not a warning. It is an observation, and that observation does fit well with all of the above. People like to play with the furry tail. People like to ignore the sharp pointy teeth. Corporations have it easier - markets are, at the least, pseudo-democracies. But the digital divide is about more than that, and because many people - the vast majority - affected by the digital divide do not have a say due to insufficient finance or poor policy - are not involved in corporate markets. This leads to what we are discussing here. Understanding that at the core is important, because marketing tactics by corporations aren't about ubiquity of access but instead making money. It's not bad, but it doesn't help - and often has to be subverted for people to realize that there is a market. The mobile phone has done just that, and will continue to do so. Why? Because even the corporations see a market where there was not one before. Now the infrastructure is needed. But there are lots of people out there who think that one can make technology useful without proper infrastructure. And infrastructure includes telecom pricing, policy, ewaste, software licensing, content licensing and much more. -- -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Google Insights - social networking
I agree, Jacky, but the problem of broadband penetration is a matter of cost and telecommunications regulation. This has been mentioned more than once at the CARICOM Internet Governance meetings, as an example - meanwhile the mobile phone subverts this by allowing voice and text communication as well as, in some cases, internet access. At the end of the day, it isn't about gadgets. It's about policy and costs. (As a subnote - good to see someone from Haiti here!) Jacky wrote: I agree with the idea that mobile phone is the latest ICT gadget; however, there is a lot that remains to be done in terms of broadband penetration. Jacky Poteau Haiti -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Fwd: Web 2.0 leaves out people with disabilities
You're right, Jayne. The good news is that there are people who are working on the same problems within virtual worlds - and those would be the next evolution. Things such as Universal Design are being championed: http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/937 As an aside, Web 2.0 is not the only thing that is lacking when it comes to such things. Mobile devices are still problematic for many of the same reasons. All of the reasons for lack of support for those that are disabled seem to be lack of effort based on financial reasons - not a lack of knowledge. Sadly, this reflects the market - as the disabled market is only a small drop in the economic bucket. Perhaps more than Section 508 (http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContentID=11#general ) could be worded more strongly - but without international agreement on standards and enforceability, it really means nothing. On the web, I try to integrate accessibility principles as best I can on my sites. In virtual worlds, I also try to apply them. My main push these days are on language accessibility issues. One course I would suggest is working on blogging and content management systems so that they allow for better accessibility. Not to mention web browsers. Given the right markup, accessibility could be customized to the user's context. As I recall, there was a push on that at some point, but it never became concrete... Jayne Cravens wrote: Sorry to only be replying now. To Claude, and others -- great that you have this knowledge about making sites accessible. But the problem is that this knowledge is NOT being applied. There is plenty of knowledge on how to make sites accessible for people using assistive technologies or people with limited physical abilities -- you've shown a lot of it here. But can I know from all of the people posting to the Digital Divide Network: how many of you apply these accessibility principles? How many of you that supposedly address digital divide issues address accessibility issues at all for people with disabilities? Sorry to keep harping on this issue, but it seems to be the forgotten part of the Digital Divide Network. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Google Insights - social networking
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: Good heavens, what a cliché! If you take that view, denying that societies have segments and interest groups, rich and poor, powerful and powerless, and everything in between and all about, then hoping for justice is pointless. Really? I do not think so. Your second paragraph communicates what I meant in the same line. My suggestion is: No society has just one set of expectations. It has many, and some win out over others, and some rise to power and then decline. Exactly. But in the end, it is society that decides. Individuals make choices based on their own expectations. All of this is encapsulated in 'Any society is the sum of it's expectations'. All the subsocietys, everything else - it all falls under that. Response to pollution law is the sum of the global society's expectations. Response to World Hunger is the sum of the global society's expectations. And so it goes. You talk about parts of society in your first paragraph. But they are parts of a society. And their expectations are reflected in the sum. If you want to change the world, perhaps the expectations are what are most important to look at. Does a person in New York City have the same expectations as someone in Port-Au-Prince, Haiti? When you look at what people expect - and how high their expectations are, relatively speaking - I think you'll find a trend. S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taran Rampersad Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] Google Insights - social networking Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: There is no good metaphor to express this situation in all of its raw power and destructiveness. Perhaps a non-metaphorical expression is needed. Any society is the sum of it's expectations. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Google Insights - social networking
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: What's the difference between a development phenomenon and an economic deal or phenomenon? This is a real question, not a rhetorical one. S. Development would be more tangible. Economic tends to be more abstract. Development is - or should be - based on metrics. Economics is based on incentives and motivations with a currency of trade. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Google Insights - social networking
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: There is no good metaphor to express this situation in all of its raw power and destructiveness. Perhaps a non-metaphorical expression is needed. Any society is the sum of it's expectations. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Joe Beckmann wrote: Robert Sternberg at Tufts uses an accepted and workable definition of anticipating consequences on behalf of others and has a variety of ways of measuring wisdom and a bunch of other soft but really significant thinking processes at http://pace.tufts.edu/ - which may, eventually, trump other less interesting testing programs that measure how much stuff is in a kid's head, or, rather, how many google clicks may not be needed to recall trivia. Do you have a more direct link? It sounds interesting, but I can't see how you got there from what you were writing... -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Excellent - great stuff. But I have a question. How will you measure success? In the end, that is what I am looking for. How does anyone measure success in this and similar/related contexts? Paperless Homework wrote: Taran, No I am not disputing the importance of data. Sometimes too much data talk and not converted to actual actions are useless. So to me the interesting part is to see someone putting into practice whatever initiatives we think is viable without waiting for data :) To me too much theories is boring to read. Maybe I am not the research type I am more of a practical type as I am putting into actions my own green project rather that talk and talk like Al Gore and partners etc LOL Alan -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Stephen Snow wrote: Taran, Data is not a bad thing; it also is not every thing. Empiricism does not make for truth anymore than feeling makes for empiricism. [Was Decartes correct of did he just have it backward? Maybe instead of I think therefore I am, it is I am, therefore I think...and because I think I *know* that I am!] Data is not good or bad. The interpretation of data can be good or bad. Data simply *is*, it sits there. So I'm wondering where the data is sitting; we don't seem to have sufficient for good or bad interpretation. It takes a combination. Just as you say you need data, you cite a quixotic novelist as your own data. That's not a criticism, it is merely a reflection fo the way we all are -- needing both facts and knowing, the latter of which often is other than or beyond facts or empirical data. I did not quote Vonnegut as 'data', but I added his quotation as a balance. Vonnegut's work is not popular because people find him disagreeable... so maybe he was onto something when he wrote that. I cannot reject his remarks so easily because of that: further, recent experiences in my own life allow for some support of that. Be happy that I did not quote Vonnegut's reference to a US mailbox as a blue bullfrog that ate his mail and said 'ribbit'. ;-) Now, of course, data matter. And there is a dearth of solid data in many areas of the electronic world. And from a data perspective, then, we can't really know what works or to what depth. (It raises a huge question about the actual validity of ANY online mechanisms, doesbn't it? About all we truly know is that a lot of people [20% of 6 billion is still quite a bunch in my limited thinking] use the heck out of this stuff and they use it in their own ways and for their own purposes, which often aren't OUR purposes or even purposes we believe are useful or valuable or, even, right. 20% of 6 billion is abysmal in my way of thinking, for cultural reasons and otherwise. Perhaps that is a data point to consider in our different perspectives. And as far as the 20% of people 'using the heck out of this stuff' - no, the 20% is a reference as to how many people have access. The frequency and vigor of their use are not in the data. Slashdot.org, in 2004/2005, was seeing 3-4 million hits per day. But those web site statistics do not reflect individual users... as an example. What was it Sam Clemmens once wrote? There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. So it isn't just data but also the quality of the data -- how it was gathered, how it was conceived (!), how it was interpreted -- that matters, as well. Agreed. As long as I have been actively involved in the online world, and I'd put that right at about 20 years, I have believed (felt, sensed -- not known) that no one really knows what is going on with all of the online things. As soon as someone says he/she does know, I am immediately skeptical. Companies often do this: they love to prognosticate value or usage or some certain future because it might benefit them in some way. The truth -- or better yet, my belief -- is that we all are still touching separate parts of the elephant and describing it as the whole. Agreed. So how do we substantiate, in the context of this discussion, whether the digital divide and human health have a positive or negative effect on each other? -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Jorge Gallardo Rius wrote: Hey guys, What does all this have to do with Health and the Digital Divide? Everything. We all are discussing Health and the Digital Divide, but we're all looking at it from different angles. Even so, from these different angles we've yet to see any concrete data. This is a weakness in the discussion - and one that probably should be addressed. A discussion based on perception is well and good, but what are we basing the perceptions on? -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Paperless Homework wrote: Anyone here actually improving digital divide and Human Health activities? And how? Alan That's the crux of the discussion we're having, I think. How can you say that something is improving or not without data to support the claim? We are not selling snake oil here... :-) -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
It is difficult to say that the digital divide and human health are linked, in my opinion. Socioeconomic status affects both the digital divide and human health. That said, sitting around on one's posterior most of the day while eating fast food or microwaveable food most certainly could be seen to demonstrate how decreasing the divide can be linked to poor health. Improper equipment - and sometimes even proper equipment - can lead to repetitive stress injuries such as the infamous metacarpal tunnel syndrome. There are some that believe that human health can be increased through empowering users. I tend to agree on the bunny slope. But on the steeper, more slippery slopes this type of thinking can itself be dangerous to one's health. Even Twain quipped that reading health magazines could cause one to die of a misprint - on the Internet, that is an even more serious issue since not only can anyone publish - anyone does. While it is all well and good that people may read information on the internet that can be helpful, this does not and should not replace properly educated and trained members of the medical community. Reading about placing a chest tube is quite different than doing it; diagnosing a disease is something that people take years and years to learn how to do - and these people, Medical Doctors, still sometimes make honest mistakes despite their training. Should we expect better from those without training? Technology, properly used, can facilitate health and quality of life. Improperly used, it can do quite the opposite. And I haven't even really touched on the issue of children... a large topic, indeed. Ilan Tsekhman wrote: As promised here is the suggested conversation topic for August (a few days early!). That a myriad of socio-economic factors influence human health is well known. But how about the digital divide in particular? Are there implications on human health resulting from the digital divide? Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences on the subject -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Geeks Without Borders
GeekCorps is ok, I suppose, but in Latin America and the Caribbean it seems to be up to local folk who, sadly, do not get as much press as those who own their own. ;-) Ilan Tsekhman wrote: I stumbled upon an article that I thought might be of interest. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080722.wtq-0708-Krpan/BNStory/GlobeTQ/home -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
Good stuff, Layton. Some comments and queries: Layton E. Olson wrote: Note Illinois rural healthnet project has been awarded 3 year FCC $21 million grant for rural ICT infrastructure connections among hospitals, health institutions and clinics, and with potential for connection with urban areas, as part of over $400 million in national Universal Service commitments (from phone user fees) pilot program in many states announced last December. $400 million could buy a lot of health anywhere in the world - that is certainly a lot to spend. It is a pilot program, though - what metrics are they using to assess whether the pilot project is a success? I ask because those metrics would certainly be useful for this discussion and others; such data would be worth it's weight in gold. The need now in all states is to generate matching funds to launch major ICT infrastructure efforts, including to provide fiber and wireless access to lower the costs of data intensive communications (e.g. radiology, cardiology, pediatrics, psychiatry) as well as to work with community health information outreach and health fair networks in underinvested areas. Many state departments of aging and health services work in annual online November-December signups for Medicare prescription insurance programs, and many persons go to senior centers and health outreach programs for online signups for this complex process. Interesting - I keep forgetting that in some places of the world, health care and paying for health care are synonymous (when did that happen?). I do believe that medical facilities should have better interconnections within themselves and without. When in Guyana in 2005, I was shocked to learn that a local hospital (St. Joseph Mercy) had been offered networking by IBM for $50,000 US equivalent - a ridiculous amount of Guyanese dollars (in the millions). I ordered some pizza and got some of the IT folk to help run the wire on a Saturday. This, of course, was not an official project done by a non-profit... instead, just some good people trying to improve things. Whether that network is in use now - I do not know (and somehow doubt it due to inertia). But - are interconnections between medical facilities and within themselves... do they constitute a part of the digital divide? I think that they are, after some thought, and I think that the digital divide within and surrounding medical facilities is certainly something that should be explored more. If there is one place that I would say suffers a divide, it would be medical practitioners in the developing world... and if they don't have access - they who can interpret medical information and communicate it to their patients - well, that has a direct impact. As it is, any hypochondriac can find new and interesting things to go to their doctor with... In the Caribbean, specifically Guyana and Trinidad and Tobago (where I have some contacts and experience), I do know that such divides exist. What is being done about them? I can't tell you anything concrete, but what I can tell you is that the inertia of staff and administration seems to pose more of a threat than an ebola outbreak... -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Live event in Second Life / Register now
See you there (Nobody Fugazi). Right up my alley, too - http://www.cardicis.org Michael Thomas wrote: Wireless Ready: Interactivity, Collaboration and Feedback in Language Learning Technologies, Nagoya, Japan, 29th March 2008 This one-day international symposium on language learning technologies will be simultaneously live in Second Life. Registration is now open in Second Life at the following URL. Click on 'sign-up' to register. Participants in SL will be able hear and see the presenters in Nagoya, Japan: http://slurl.com/secondlife/EduNation%20III/52/49/21/ (requires SL to be installed) -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Private Media takes to the Internet e-Reporting the EmergencySituation in Pakistan
Andy Carvin wrote: The blocking of YouTube began in Pakistan over the weekend. Here's an NPR story about it: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19333956 Thanks, Andy. I'd heard of Iran calling for the blocking of Wikipedia, but not of this... -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Using Virtual Worlds and Emerging Technologies for People with Disabilities
Nobody Fugazi will probably stop in. ;-) Malin Coleridge wrote: Please come check us out. Using Virtual Worlds and Emerging Technologies for People with Disabilities Friday, Feb. 29th, 2008: Join us for a 1-day free online event happening -- -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Private Media takes to the Internet e-Reporting the EmergencySituation in Pakistan
Fouad Riaz Bajwa wrote: This is very old news now, from last year, I wonder why Digital Divide list admin took so long to deliver it, anyways, nowadays Youtube.com is banned in the country. The list had a hiccough (or long belch), apparently. Getting past that, when was YouTube banned in Pakistan? I hadn't heard of that. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Intel, $100 Laptop program form new partnership
tom abeles wrote: And the price for the units are coming down so that OLPC and the current smart phones will meet in the middle- not at the desired USD 100. So we should stop, now, using the term, $100 lap top. I believe current suggested price will be closer to $200 than $100 and even more in inflation adjusted dollars. Agree with the 'options are better' comments - just kicking in here that the minimum order of a million is really the issue for me. Plus, if we consider the shifts in the global economy - is $100 US really a good target? How about let's try for 'affordable'... what I mean is that cost of living, etc, plus the relative value of the US dollar may increase or decrease. Since the machine(s) themselves aren't necessarily made in the US, this really makes this an interesting thing to look at economically. But, and this is a big BUT, no one talks about the cost of access, the main reason that the wireless providers practically give away their phones. The connection costs are coming down, but they are constant even if one owns the machines. And then there is the question of service and support. This part of the package is never discussed and yet it is the major life cycle expense to having one of these devices and using them to greatest benefit. Perhaps it is time to stop slavering over the non-existent device and its purported cure for the digital divide, like some miracle drug and look at the systems cost and see who has worked that into their development budgets. thoughts? I'm of two minds on all of this. Mobile phones have become more ubiquitous than Microsoft ever was (or ever will be). But mobile phones are not the solution either - access to hardware, except in very extreme cases, exists. This leads back to policy and infrastructure, which is where there have always been problems that have reinforced the hardware access problem. Now it is about service. So yes, the mobile phone has and will continue to demonstrate the most promise for leveling technological access. But no, it will not change service level disparity. One reason is economics, which can be fixed - some say it already is being fixed. But policy. Policy. Telecommunications service. A bunch of other stuff that technology hasn't been able to fix for the last millenium. :-) -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Telecommuting and the Digital Divide
While many of us talk about the digital divide, this could be an interesting twist on things. Perhaps some DDN perspective would be a good idea - Manpower is holding an event on Virtual Work that may be of interest to some. As someone who has been telecommuting for about 7 years, I'm obviously not someone facing as much of a digital divide as others. Plus I hate being the only Voice from the Wilderness. Information on the event, to be held tomorrow in Second Life at noon Pacific Time, can be found here: http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/249 If you need a teleport, just instant message me (Nobody Fugazi). -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] I make no profit, therefore I suck
Hey John. :-) Comments inline; I'm kind of tired so I may meander. John Hibbs wrote: Can those doing not-for-profit work sell the idea that they reach Movers and Shakers? Aren't people who do not-for-profit work - aren't they 'Movers and Shakers'? I suspect this is about finance, though, but I wanted to stick that out there. I recognize I am probably a minority on the list, but I think self-sustaining non-profits are the way to go. Self sustaining in that they are profitable; as Henry Ford said (paraphrased) 'a good company makes more than money'. Thinking out loud - with a stretch, we can say that non-profits exist because other areas do not provide value to groups, and the non-profits are created to fill those voids. So when looking for funding for non-profits, we're looking for funding from the same groups that could not provide that value in the first place (something I will carry over to a philanthropy list I am on). Einstein did say that a problem cannot be solved at the same level of thinking that created it. Maybe he was on to something. ;-) That while it is hard to provide benchmarks and absolutes it is easy to make the claim that good work supported by good (for profit) companies is a /profitable/ undertaking? That the direct links between the work itself might be hard of precisely substantiate; but the linkage by way of conversation, dialogue, press release, blog, list serv, video uploads have impact as favorable to the sponsor as a Coke ad behind home plate during the World Series. If Coke can make the claim more people drink their beverage based on people interested in a baseball outcome, why can't non profits make the same kind of claim? Branding? One thing I have learned is that if one stirs the pot of smelly stuff (PG list, use your imagination), you end up smelling like what is in the pot. And then, even away from the pot, you are associated with the stuff in the pot. If, for example, you are constantly looking for funding - people will see you coming from a mile away. If you disagree with something, you become associated with what you disagree with. It isn't wrong or right - it is simply what it is.Branding can be good either way. But non-profit folk - like any other folk - like to hang out and talk with like-minded people. It isn't a sin, but I often think it is self-defeating in many instances, especially when it comes to communicating to people 'outside of the group'. For the communication to occur, the value has to be shared. That value is a funny thing. I can explain open standards and open source concepts to a farmer in a rumshop, but for some reason I can't explain the same things to an IT Professional who wants nothing to do with 'open'. Unlearning, maybe, but it has more to do with shared values. A farmer can understand the importance of a tractor which allows one to open the hood and fix it, or allow anyone else to fix it. An IT Professional may see that as a direct attack on their bread and butter. I have an opinion on that which is fairly well known, but it is an example. I think what we're all working towards in our own way is a bit of culture change around us. Maybe explaining things to 1000 farmers is more important than explaining things to a single IT Professional. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] I make no profit, therefore I suck
tom abeles wrote: Its not that the funders don't understand. Its the nfp's that need to understand thoughts? I don't know. Consider that the reason non-profits exist is because of perceived failures in governments and companies - which include the group, 'funders'. So while representatives of these organizations are given options as far as which nfp to support, is it a little strange to expect them to make the 'right' decisions after they may have made the decisions which created the conditions which made the nfp necessary in the first place. We expect them to be inconsistent? To suddenly make choices in line with an nfp out of some 'Christmas' sort of giving spirit? That seems kind of strange to me (but that is almost exactly what we do). Using the same tools that these same organizations use and not expecting them to recognize them seems a bit strange too - but we do that as well. I don't really have a better answer. I wish I did. But whenever I look at an nfp, I wonder when they intend to make themselves obsolete - because I believe that this is an important aspect of any nfp. Unlike for profit businesses, which seek to continue themselves - I believe nfps should be trying to actually solve the problem(s) that they were created to solve. There is, and/or should be, an inherent difference in 'values' - and subsequently, there will be a difference in what is considered to be a success. Perhaps the answer is sharing the value(s) and concept of what success is. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] I make no profit, therefore I suck
Dave, It just falls to how they measure success. To them, it's dollars. To others, it means other things. I'm a big fan of non-profits letting go of the hand which holds them down, and there may be models for such things. Oddly enough, it may be a matter of ditching the non-profit status and creating a business that creates the appropriate value. Don't worry about the rich guys. I'm sure that they'll find something else to invest in or bet on. The question must be asked: Their money or your mission: Which is more valuable? Dave Chakrabarti wrote: Greetings, list folk, At the NetSquared conference recently, there was a comment made by a venture capitalist that Some nonprofits just suck. This was partially attached to a discussion of nonprofit sustainability models, with a very large portion of participants taking it for granted that sustainability meant charging for services. There is an entrenched view that foundation grant funding and other donations can never be sustainable, and that there must be a return on services offered that eventually sustains the organization financially. I responded to much of this. There's a synopsis on the Nonprofiteer: http://nonprofiteer.typepad.com/the_nonprofiteer/2007/06/ dear_nonprofite.html#comment-72142198 (thanks, Nonprofiteer, for the kind words). The continuing debate lives here: http://www.tacticalphilanthropy.com/ 2007/05/some_nonprofits.html#comment-71226258 and here: http://www.tacticalphilanthropy.com/2007/06/ philanthropic_c.html#comment-72140764 ...and other comment threads on the Tactical Philanthropy site and elsewhere. Coming under fire for offering services for free, by nonprofit funders who do not seem to understand the difference between mission- driven and profit-driven, forces me to suggest that we, as a sector, need to develop stronger language regarding these issues. Most of all, we need to work towards a different model of sustainability, so that we can pose alternate definitions when a potential funder equates sustainability with a system based on marginal returns for services offered. So my question is: How do we measure sustainability if we're mission- focused (nonprofit) instead of profit-focused (for profit)?. And related: How do we communicate the difference to the venture capitalist, foundation, and other donor communities who we're hoping will support our work?. In both cases, by we I mean all of us mailing list denizens, not our organization in particular. Responses appreciated. Backup on Tactical Phil would be awesome (I think I'm outnumbered). Dave. Dave Chakrabarti Director of Programs Grassroots.org ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Social business Capitalism
Grameen is apparently a government funded project from what I last read. Cleverly done, but... marketed under a different name. Deborah Phelan wrote: I am researching for an article I am writing for Global Progress and seeking some suggesstions on social business enterprises which are relying on a capitalist model to alleviate poverty. So far, I have info for Grameen, GAIN, OneWorld, Barefoot College,Equity for Africa, Unilever... I've found some research on the underlying philosophy behind the idea -- looking at Global Issues, WiserEarth, REDF... -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. — Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
