[digitalradio] Rules for the Feld Hell Club December North Pole Sprint
FROM THE FELD HELL CLUB AT www.feldhellclub.org, HERE ARE THE COMPLETE SET OF RULES FOR OUR DECEMBER HOLIDAY SPRINT: In keeping with the holiday spirit, and to help us get as close as we can to Santa Claus, the December Feld Hell Sprint will center on the North Pole. DATE: December 20th TIME: 1600 - 2200Z (We made it 6 hours, by request, to allow for propagation across NA/SA and Europe/Asia/Africa) MODES: All modes of Hell are allowed BANDS: All bands are allowed EXCHANGE: RST, FH #, QTH (ONLY GIVE STATE, PROVINCE, COUNTRY UNLESS YOUR TOWN IS NAMED NORTH POLE. SEE BELOW...) MULTIPLIERS: Same as always, you get a Multiplier for each state, province, or DXCC entity (exclusive of the bonuses) BONUS POINTS AS FOLLOWS: 1) 100 points goes for your first QSO with any ham in North Pole, Alaska, North Pole, Idaho, North Pole, New York, or North Pole, Oklahoma. 2) 100 points for your first QSO with the countries, American state, or Canadian provinces that lie above or touch the Arctic Circle: Norway (LA), Sweden (SM), Finland (OH), Alaska (K/W/AL7), Greenland (OX), Iceland (TF), Russia (U and R), and The Yukon (VY1), Northwest Territories (VE8), and Nunavut (VY0). (NOTE: If you made a contact with North Pole, AK you do not get another 100 points for Alaska) 3) 25 points goes for your first QSO in a state (other than Alaska) in which a town named North Pole is located: Idaho, New York, Oklahoma. (NOTE: If you had a QSO with a North Pole in one of these states, do not enter another 25 points for that state here) 4) AS MENTIONED ABOVE, A special holiday bonus: 50 points for your first QSO with WW1FHC (FH #001), the club's special callsign which has never been used before this contest. The callsign will be used by Pete, KZ1Z, who has a BIG signal from Florida. PASS THIS INFORMATION TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS, TELL THEM TO JOIN US ON DECEMBER 20TH. TELL THEM IT'S SUPER EASY TO SUBMIT YOUR SCORES USING OUR AUTOLOG SYSTEM (www.bambinomusical.com/autolog.html) COME ON, SPREAD THE WORD AND LET'S MAKE THIS THE BIGGEST HELL SPRINT EVER! David WB2HTO FHC Contest Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record
Just for the record... My original comments were made tongue in cheek But for the record NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some of the delivery points are made through packet links, the rest are by individual liasions to the traditional NTS system...For the month of October 2008, Eastern Area NTSD (and that's Eastern Area only, Central and Pacific also have their own totals) handled over 10,000 NTS messages 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTSD - Original Message - From: David Struebel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Arnold ; Tom Hesler ; Scott Walker ; Russell T Hack jr ; Richard Krohn ; Pierre Mainville ; Norman Schklar ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; KW1U Marcia Forde ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; KC2ANN ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; John W. Tipka ; John Miller N1UMJ ; Greg Szpunar (N2GS) ; Gil Follett ; George Thomas ; Frank Van Cleef ; Frank Fallon ; Ewald, Steve, WV1X ; Earl Moore ; Earl Leach (WX4J) ; Dave Knight ; Dan Ostroy ; Dale Sewell ; Benson Scott ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:35 AM Subject: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record Gee, I kinda of thought that NTS Digital had been doing this for the past 10 or 15 years on a 24/7 basis, maybe I was mislead. Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator - NTS Digital - Original Message - From: Mark Thompson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record http://www.arrl.org/?artid=8610 Global Emergency Network Marks Record (Nov 19, 2008) -- The Global ALE High Frequency Network (HFN) -- an international Amateur Radio Service organization of ham operators dedicated to emergency/relief radio communications -- has become the first network to operate continuously for more than 500 days on all international Amateur Radio shortwave bands simultaneously. According to HFN International ALE Coordinator Bonnie Crystal, KQ6XA, the main purpose of the Network is to provide efficient emergency and disaster relief communications to remote areas of the world. Beginning with a core group of six North American radio operators in June 2007, HFN rapidly expanded to cover large areas of the planet with 24/7 digital communications, she said.HFN was designed to be an open framework for global Amateur Radio emergency services to interoperate on HF using the Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) system. Relying on ionospheric radio communications, interconnected HFN base stations scan the radio bands every 10 seconds, from 3.5 MHz-28.0 MHz. Through this Net, Crystal said, ham operators stay connected with each other at all hours of the day or night in any mode of operation, and can send Internet e-mail or cell phone mobile text messages from the field. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1804 - Release Date: 11/21/2008 6:24 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1804 - Release Date: 11/21/2008 6:24 PM
[digitalradio] Does an NTS Digital Net Station run 24/7 allband HF?
Hi Dave WB2FTX, Does a station in the NTS Digital net operate 24/7 on all HF bands simultaneously? Does a typical station in the NTS Digital net use 8 transceivers to achieve simultaneous operation on the 8 HF bands 80m/40m/30m/20m/17m/15m/12m/10m? Or, does each NTS Digital station scan every HF band? What type of software/hardware does a typical NTS Digital station use to achieve allband 24/7 HF operation? I'm very curious about it, because none of the publicly available information by NTS indicates that any station in the net is running 24/7 allband HF. Dave, I see you are cross-posting your message with CC to many of groups and individuals :) I am replying to you on the digitalradio group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ but, feel free to cross-post your answer to these questions. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA Dave WB2FTX wrote: NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some of the delivery points are made through packet links, 73 Dave WB2FTX
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed.
So does this mean that Patrick has IMPROVED on Pawel's design and the true implementation within DM780 is not as effective, or is DM780 slower but better at decoding ? Andy On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Patrick Lindecker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Votjech, I believe the difference between Patrick's MultiPSK and Pawel's original Olivia code is in the way how the sync time is adjusted after the initial sync is reached. Partick's code locks in time and only Yes it is as you described (you are perspicacious!). The symbol synchronization is done as in MFSK16, or other mode with a non-linearity and a PLL to follow slight variations. However, I use the complete Pawel strategy for RS ID. synchronization and for decoding very weak signal, additionaly introduced 1 second lag in case of Olivia1000/32 is annoying. I don't think there is some issue for weak signal. I tried here comparing Mixw, Multipsk and OliviaAid with a very noisy transmission: the decodings are more or less equivalent. The results are the following (with a signal at -13 dB of S/N Gaussian which is the limit for Olivia 32-1000 decoding): * OliviaAid: 120 characters decoded, * Mixw: 164 characters decoded, * Multipsk: 208 characters decoded. However, I tested on Gaussian noise, when real conditions could be very different from a Gaussian noise (QSB was not simulated for example) and so the results could be different... 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Vojtech Bubnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed. Hi Andy. Let's say one works with Olivia 1000/32. Olivia sends/receives 7bit ASCII letters. Each 7 bit letter is coded by Walch-Hadamard transformation into 2^(7-1)=64 bits. One of 32 tones modulation codes 32=2^5 combinations, which equals to 5 binary bits. Olivia is spreading 5 7bit letters over 64 MFSK32 tones. It takes 64/31.25=2.048 seconds to transmit one block of 5 letters. I hope this explains why the received letters appear in groups of five and why there is a considerable lag, which cannot be lower than 2 seconds for any decoder. Olivia receiver searches for the Walch-Hadamard coded blocks in time and space. Pawel Jalocha's code is running matrix of decoders spaced by one half of Olivia tone spacing in frequency and one half of tone spacing in time. He is calculating signal level (or quality, correlation or whatever one wants to name it) of each of the decoder in the matrix to check, whether and/or where a valid Olivia block was received. I believe the difference between Patrick's MultiPSK and Pawel's original Olivia code is in the way how the sync time is adjusted after the initial sync is reached. Partick's code locks in time and only slightly adjusts the sync time to cope with differences in RX/TX sound card clock callibration the same way his or any other MFSK16 decoder works. Pawel's code is always looking up one half of block time after the expected sync time. While Pawel's strategy is good for initial synchronization and for decoding very weak signal, additionaly introduced 1 second lag in case of Olivia1000/32 is annoying. I believe Pawel's code may be improved to decrease time lag in case the decoder is already locked to a strong signal. Also if a strong correlation is detected, one does not need to wait another 1 second for even stronger signal, because this is highly improbable. I believe Patrick's MFSK is doing both. Also if the signal is very strong, then one may break into a middle of a block and the block will be detected correctly with the prerequisity that the decoder will be flushed at the time one changes frequency either on waterfall or by tuning knob. I don't think any Olivia decoder is flushed at tuning change. It sounds like a challenge for my PocketDigi code, but don't tell my wife I have a new project :-) 73, Vojtech OK1IAK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andrew O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, when Simon was first adding Olivia to DM780 he studied Pawel Jalocha's coding and consulted with him about the correct implementation. The lag noticed in DM780 is reportedly as the Pawel Jalocha intended. What I am looking for is people to get on the air with Olivia and see if the applications that may have less lag , have any noticeable decoding degradation. Since I know Olivia in MixW and Multipsk work well, I am wondering if the proper implimentation of Olivia in DM780 is worth the delay and issues this causes during a QSO (those not knowing about the lag think we are not coming back to them and start a transmission again ) Andy On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Simon Brown (KNS) [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The lag is in the software - it's part of the design for the
Re: [digitalradio] Does an NTS Digital Net Station run 24/7 allband HF?
Bonnie, NTSD is complementary to the traditional NTS structure and interfaces with it on all the NTS structure levels. It is administered through the NTS structure at area level by Area Digital Coordinators each reporting to the NTS Area Chairperson. NTSD automated stations are one transmitter scanning the indicated HF bands. Usually some soft of all band antenna is used with automatic antenna tuners. My station is a Kenwood TS-450S, a 135 foot doublet, with a MFJ 993 autotuner Modem is a SCS PTC-IIex. My VHF packet link is a Kantronics KPC-3+ which feeds into my NTS PBBS and the Eastern Flexnet system The majority are using Winlink classic with Winlink classic scanner software. This is an older piece of software originally developed as APLINK (AMTOR and packet) by many of the same authors who later developed Winlink 2000 and can be run on a very modest computer. For instance I am using a Pentium 166 MHz computer and Windows 98SE. Some stations are running Winlink 2000 and some are using Airmail. Again the majority have multiple Pactor mode capability using the SCS modems. A couple of the automated stations are Pactor 1 only typically using a PK-232MBX, not everyone can afford a SCS modem... We do have an equipment bank with Pactor 1 capable Pk-232MBXs to bring a new station on the line, as other stations leave or lose interest... Most who come into our ranks eventually upgrade to a SCS modem, at least two operators in the past two years You may get a fuller look at NTSD operation from this web page http://home.earthlink.net/~bscottmd/n_t_s_d.htmthe stations and frequencies may not be exacly up to date but it wil give you an idea Most of the participants in NTSD are Digital Relay Stations manually connecting into the various automated systems. Copied into this message are the operators of the Eastern area MBO stations, our ARRL contact, Steve Ewald WV1X, and Dave Knight W4ZJY, and George Thomas K7BDU, the Digital Area Coordinators for Central and Pacific area NTSD, respectively Marcia, KW1U in addition to being a MBO is also the Chair of Eastern Area NTS staff. Hope that answers your questions... As I noted before, my original comment was not to be little HFLink ALE operations, just trying to let you know we are still out there after all this time. 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital - Original Message - From: expeditionradio To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 12:09 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Does an NTS Digital Net Station run 24/7 allband HF? Hi Dave WB2FTX, Does a station in the NTS Digital net operate 24/7 on all HF bands simultaneously? Does a typical station in the NTS Digital net use 8 transceivers to achieve simultaneous operation on the 8 HF bands 80m/40m/30m/20m/17m/15m/12m/10m? Or, does each NTS Digital station scan every HF band? What type of software/hardware does a typical NTS Digital station use to achieve allband 24/7 HF operation? I'm very curious about it, because none of the publicly available information by NTS indicates that any station in the net is running 24/7 allband HF. Dave, I see you are cross-posting your message with CC to many of groups and individuals :) I am replying to you on the digitalradio group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ but, feel free to cross-post your answer to these questions. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA Dave WB2FTX wrote: NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some of the delivery points are made through packet links, 73 Dave WB2FTX -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1804 - Release Date: 11/21/2008 6:24 PM
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record
Hello David, I would like to ask what type of traffic is involved in the messages you mentioned (10,000 messages in Oct 2008). I was surprised because so many people use email and cell phones. Where does this volume come from? Howard K5HB From: David Struebel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Hesler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Scott Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Russell T Hack jr [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Richard Krohn [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pierre Mainville [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Norman Schklar [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KW1U Marcia Forde [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KC2ANN [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John W. Tipka [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John Miller N1UMJ [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Greg Szpunar (N2GS) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gil Follett [EMAIL PROTECTED]; George Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Frank Van Cleef [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Frank Fallon [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ewald, Steve, WV1X [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Earl Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Earl Leach (WX4J) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dave Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Ostroy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dale Sewell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Benson Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:22:53 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record Just for the record... My original comments were made tongue in cheek But for the record NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some of the delivery points are made through packet links, the rest are by individual liasions to the traditional NTS system...For the month of October 2008, Eastern Area NTSD (and that's Eastern Area only, Central and Pacific also have their own totals) handled over 10,000 NTS messages 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTSD [snip] ,_._,___
[digitalradio] TARA RTTY Melee - Dec 6 @ 00:00 UTC
Howdy Folks: Okay, it's time to ready yourselves and your station for the upcoming TARA RTTY Melee to be held on December 6, 2008 at 00:00 UTC. Now, I'm totally aware that this just might not be your most favorite contest, according to a poll that was taken a year ago or so. But, it's been running since the early 1990's and we're here to stay! Otherwise I'd be out of a job. With that in mind why don't you try this contest out and see if we can't put so 'fire in the wires' and have ourselves a good old time while we're at it. As in year's past this does make an excellent chance for all of you to test your station out for the ever popular ARRL Roundup in January. So, now you see this contest really does serve a purpose! Plus, if you submit your score you get the great satisfaction of knowing you're putting Ernie, WM2U and myself to work. All kidding aside TARA is really proud to been running this contest for our 17th year without missing any in between. It hasn't been easy but we've been quite fortunate that a good number of you have guided us along all these years with your support/input. And, without that it would have died long ago. Please, come join us on December 6th for this contest. As I always say, we need as many of you as possible to join in and make it a success. If I can assist any of you in any way, shape or form just drop me an email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Even if you don't plan on participating in the full contest you're more than welcome to join in on the fun. Oh yes...as requested by a number of you folks we have added 160 Meters to this contest! Give it a try if you can. TARA RTTY Mêlée -- sponsored by the Troy Amateur Radio Assn, from Z-2400Z Dec 6. Categories: SOAB-HP (150 W), SOAB-LP (150 W), MOAB, SWL, 10 min band change rule for MO. Frequencies: 160- 10 meters, operate 16 hours max. Exchange: RS + State/Province or serial number for DX. QSO points: 1 pt/QSO. Score: QSO points -- S/P/C counted once only (US and VE only count as S/P). For more information: _www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_melee_rules.html_ (http://www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_melee_rules.html) . Summary 8 sheets (no logs) due Dec 31 via online submission form at _www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_melee_score.html_ (http://www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_melee_score.html) . 73 - Bill NY2U And do not forget the TARA sponsored contests... _http://www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_seasons.html_ (http://www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_seasons.html) **One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom0001)
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed.
Hello Andy, The Multipsk code is not better than the Pawel's design. If I had to rewrite the code, I would prefer to use the Pawel's design because it is simpler. Simply when I wrote it, I was used to do this way (as with MFSK16, PSK31...) and moreover, I had doubts about the precision of a double-estimation by symbol. 10 estimations per symbol seemed to me much better, but of course, it would have be necessary to load much the CPU, so I forgot it. But I was wrong, because under a good S/N, this precision (double-estimation by symbol) is not necessary and under a bad S/N, it all cases this precision is homogeneous with the precision of symbol estimation. Note: it is reminded that, under noise, the quick degradation of decoding is due to : * the loss of symbol synchronization, * the imprecision of the symbol estimation. This can be seen in an eye diagram. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed. So does this mean that Patrick has IMPROVED on Pawel's design and the true implementation within DM780 is not as effective, or is DM780 slower but better at decoding ? Andy On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Patrick Lindecker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Votjech, I believe the difference between Patrick's MultiPSK and Pawel's original Olivia code is in the way how the sync time is adjusted after the initial sync is reached. Partick's code locks in time and only Yes it is as you described (you are perspicacious!). The symbol synchronization is done as in MFSK16, or other mode with a non-linearity and a PLL to follow slight variations. However, I use the complete Pawel strategy for RS ID. synchronization and for decoding very weak signal, additionaly introduced 1 second lag in case of Olivia1000/32 is annoying. I don't think there is some issue for weak signal. I tried here comparing Mixw, Multipsk and OliviaAid with a very noisy transmission: the decodings are more or less equivalent. The results are the following (with a signal at -13 dB of S/N Gaussian which is the limit for Olivia 32-1000 decoding): * OliviaAid: 120 characters decoded, * Mixw: 164 characters decoded, * Multipsk: 208 characters decoded. However, I tested on Gaussian noise, when real conditions could be very different from a Gaussian noise (QSB was not simulated for example) and so the results could be different... 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Vojtech Bubnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed. Hi Andy. Let's say one works with Olivia 1000/32. Olivia sends/receives 7bit ASCII letters. Each 7 bit letter is coded by Walch-Hadamard transformation into 2^(7-1)=64 bits. One of 32 tones modulation codes 32=2^5 combinations, which equals to 5 binary bits. Olivia is spreading 5 7bit letters over 64 MFSK32 tones. It takes 64/31.25=2.048 seconds to transmit one block of 5 letters. I hope this explains why the received letters appear in groups of five and why there is a considerable lag, which cannot be lower than 2 seconds for any decoder. Olivia receiver searches for the Walch-Hadamard coded blocks in time and space. Pawel Jalocha's code is running matrix of decoders spaced by one half of Olivia tone spacing in frequency and one half of tone spacing in time. He is calculating signal level (or quality, correlation or whatever one wants to name it) of each of the decoder in the matrix to check, whether and/or where a valid Olivia block was received. I believe the difference between Patrick's MultiPSK and Pawel's original Olivia code is in the way how the sync time is adjusted after the initial sync is reached. Partick's code locks in time and only slightly adjusts the sync time to cope with differences in RX/TX sound card clock callibration the same way his or any other MFSK16 decoder works. Pawel's code is always looking up one half of block time after the expected sync time. While Pawel's strategy is good for initial synchronization and for decoding very weak signal, additionaly introduced 1 second lag in case of Olivia1000/32 is annoying. I believe Pawel's code may be improved to decrease time lag in case the decoder is already locked to a strong signal. Also if a strong correlation is detected, one does not need to wait another 1 second for even stronger signal, because this is highly improbable. I believe Patrick's MFSK is doing both. Also if the signal is very strong, then one may break into a middle of a
[digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed.
I still believe the decoder may be improved in two ways: 1) Better frequency and time resolution of the decoder. In worst case Pawel's decoder will be 1/4 of frequency and time spacing off. While his code is efficient for initial locking, it may lock more precise after initial sync. I believe this is the explanation why Patrick's decoder is slightly better. 2) Decoding lag. After decoder is locked, there is no need to look up in time 1/2 of symbol spacing for better lock. 73, Vojtech OK1IAK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Lindecker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Andy, The Multipsk code is not better than the Pawel's design. If I had to rewrite the code, I would prefer to use the Pawel's design because it is simpler. Simply when I wrote it, I was used to do this way (as with MFSK16, PSK31...) and moreover, I had doubts about the precision of a double-estimation by symbol. 10 estimations per symbol seemed to me much better, but of course, it would have be necessary to load much the CPU, so I forgot it. But I was wrong, because under a good S/N, this precision (double-estimation by symbol) is not necessary and under a bad S/N, it all cases this precision is homogeneous with the precision of symbol estimation. Note: it is reminded that, under noise, the quick degradation of decoding is due to : * the loss of symbol synchronization, * the imprecision of the symbol estimation. This can be seen in an eye diagram. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed. So does this mean that Patrick has IMPROVED on Pawel's design and the true implementation within DM780 is not as effective, or is DM780 slower but better at decoding ? Andy On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Patrick Lindecker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Votjech, I believe the difference between Patrick's MultiPSK and Pawel's original Olivia code is in the way how the sync time is adjusted after the initial sync is reached. Partick's code locks in time and only Yes it is as you described (you are perspicacious!). The symbol synchronization is done as in MFSK16, or other mode with a non-linearity and a PLL to follow slight variations. However, I use the complete Pawel strategy for RS ID. synchronization and for decoding very weak signal, additionaly introduced 1 second lag in case of Olivia1000/32 is annoying. I don't think there is some issue for weak signal. I tried here comparing Mixw, Multipsk and OliviaAid with a very noisy transmission: the decodings are more or less equivalent. The results are the following (with a signal at -13 dB of S/N Gaussian which is the limit for Olivia 32-1000 decoding): * OliviaAid: 120 characters decoded, * Mixw: 164 characters decoded, * Multipsk: 208 characters decoded. However, I tested on Gaussian noise, when real conditions could be very different from a Gaussian noise (QSB was not simulated for example) and so the results could be different... 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Vojtech Bubnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed. Hi Andy. Let's say one works with Olivia 1000/32. Olivia sends/receives 7bit ASCII letters. Each 7 bit letter is coded by Walch-Hadamard transformation into 2^(7-1)=64 bits. One of 32 tones modulation codes 32=2^5 combinations, which equals to 5 binary bits. Olivia is spreading 5 7bit letters over 64 MFSK32 tones. It takes 64/31.25=2.048 seconds to transmit one block of 5 letters. I hope this explains why the received letters appear in groups of five and why there is a considerable lag, which cannot be lower than 2 seconds for any decoder. Olivia receiver searches for the Walch-Hadamard coded blocks in time and space. Pawel Jalocha's code is running matrix of decoders spaced by one half of Olivia tone spacing in frequency and one half of tone spacing in time. He is calculating signal level (or quality, correlation or whatever one wants to name it) of each of the decoder in the matrix to check, whether and/or where a valid Olivia block was received. I believe the difference between Patrick's MultiPSK and Pawel's original Olivia code is in the way how the sync time is adjusted after the initial sync is reached. Partick's code locks in time and only slightly adjusts the sync time to cope with differences in RX/TX sound card clock callibration the same way his or any other MFSK16 decoder works. Pawel's code is always looking up one
Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB
RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Becker, WŘJAB Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed.
My unscientific tests so far with different packages is that MixW seems to decode Olivia the best for me, but the lag is longest. I am using MULTIPSK, MixW and FLDIGI at present. Other factors enter into things, coexistence with Windows and other software being chief for me. Today I was receiving on two rigs at once, on different bands, the main one transceiving with MULTIPSK and the secondary monitoring another net with FLDIGI. However, I could not transmit on FLDIGI at the same time I was receiving on MULTIPSK. Also, MixW seems to have problems when anything else happens -- an AV update, say -- as XP is set up here. Cortland KA5S - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: 11/23/2008 4:15:19 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia mode comparisons, testers needed. Hello Andy, The Multipsk code is not better than the Pawel's design. If I had to rewrite the code, I would prefer to use the Pawel's design because it is simpler. Simply when I wrote it, I was used to do this way (as with MFSK16, PSK31...) and moreover, I had doubts about the precision of a double-estimation by symbol. 10 estimations per symbol seemed to me much better, but of course, it would have be necessary to load much the CPU, so I forgot it. But I was wrong, because under a good S/N, this precision (double-estimation by symbol) is not necessary and under a bad S/N, it all cases this precision is homogeneous with the precision of symbol estimation. Note: it is reminded that, under noise, the quick degradation of decoding is due to : * the loss of symbol synchronization, * the imprecision of the symbol estimation. This can be seen in an eye diagram. 73 Patrick
RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. The Ham community showed their distaste for P3, so it has been largely moved to NTIA frequencies. Unfortunately, it set the stage for loss of confidence in the Amateur Community for Emergency Communications over a long range, unless they are self-funding the entire response.. There still are some RMS Pactor stations on the Ham spectrum, and some using P3 for Keyboard to Keyboard use. Most of them are candidates for MARS service as they continue to get the flack from the contesters. Everyone eventually gets whet they want. Some are late to realize that what they got in return wasn't actually what they wanted... Enjoy, David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:30 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Becker, WŘJAB Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record
At this point in time most of the traffic is ham to ham. like welcome to ham radio, your license is about to expire, welcome to a new ham club (group of hams) etc..Some of these are also confirmation of messages received, birthday greetings and the like... This ia a free public service sponsored by NTS and the ARRL and if fact was one of the first ham related activities... The relay in American Radio RELAY League (ARRL) refers to this aspect of the hobby. There still are the messages to the general public. In the times of communication emergencies (which is the prime reason for the existence of NTS) there are many health and welfare related messagesMany of these cannot be handled or delivered by any other means when the infrastructure supporting , the traditional phone system, cell phones and email disappears...The routine messages are a way of keeping the skills of trained operators honed or oiled if you will, to respond in a structured fashion in an emergency or disaster without giving it a second thought... It becomes part of your operating skills. Amateur Radio -When all else fails. Individual stations operating without any infrastructure but within a structured system, on emergency power, if necessary, have always been the hallmark of ham radio. Note, that what I have been discussing is the digital aspect of NTS... Similar activites as well as traffic volume exists within the traditional NTS systems. NTS Digital is only a complementary system to traditional NTS and interfaces with it at all levels of NTS structure, from Transcontential Corps (TCC) to area, region, section and local.. Indeed the automated portion of NTS Digital would not be successfull without these links to the traditional NTS operator structure 73 Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: Howard Brown To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record Hello David, I would like to ask what type of traffic is involved in the messages you mentioned (10,000 messages in Oct 2008). I was surprised because so many people use email and cell phones. Where does this volume come from? Howard K5HB -- From: David Struebel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Hesler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Scott Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Russell T Hack jr [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Richard Krohn [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pierre Mainville [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Norman Schklar [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KW1U Marcia Forde [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KC2ANN [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John W. Tipka [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John Miller N1UMJ [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Greg Szpunar (N2GS) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gil Follett [EMAIL PROTECTED]; George Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Frank Van Cleef [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Frank Fallon [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ewald, Steve, WV1X [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Earl Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Earl Leach (WX4J) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dave Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dan Ostroy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dale Sewell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Benson Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:22:53 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record Just for the record... My original comments were made tongue in cheek But for the record NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some of the delivery points are made through packet links, the rest are by individual liasions to the traditional NTS system...For the month of October 2008, Eastern Area NTSD (and that's Eastern Area only, Central and Pacific also have their own totals) handled over 10,000 NTS messages 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTSD [snip] ,_._,___ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1804 - Release Date: 11/21/2008 6:24 PM
[digitalradio] Hams only for last mile ?
Did they really ??? Andy K3UK 2008/11/23 David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. Enjoy, David KD4NUE -Original Message- *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave AA6YQ *Sent:* Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:30 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *John Becker, WŘJAB *Sent:* Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB -- Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
David, You have your opinion I call tell you that NTS and NTSD is going stong... Last month Eastern Area NTSD handled over 10,000 messages Regarding the distaste for P3, it is a spectrum hog at 2.4 Khz more suited to commerical applications (where there are fixed channels) rather than the narrow bandwidths used in ham radio... Although NTSD for the most part has P3 capability, we still use P1 and preferably P2 which both have a bandwidth of 500 Hz. especially since most of our operation is confined within the automatic control subbands. By the way NTS and NTSD is self funded... We do it for the love of the hobby and public service 73 Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: David Little To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. The Ham community showed their distaste for P3, so it has been largely moved to NTIA frequencies. Unfortunately, it set the stage for loss of confidence in the Amateur Community for Emergency Communications over a long range, unless they are self-funding the entire response.. There still are some RMS Pactor stations on the Ham spectrum, and some using P3 for Keyboard to Keyboard use. Most of them are candidates for MARS service as they continue to get the flack from the contesters. Everyone eventually gets whet they want. Some are late to realize that what they got in return wasn't actually what they wanted... Enjoy, David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:30 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Becker, WŘJAB Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1804 - Release Date: 11/21/2008 6:24 PM
RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
We all have out opinions. 2.4 KHz is well within the 3.0 KHz bandwidth. The desire of Hams to operate on top of another station is another reason for serious consideration of NTIA spectrum for reliable communications and the discipline necessary to conduct them. MARS still handles some MARSGRAMS also; mostly during holidays, so I see no indication of competition with the license renewal notices and birthday greetings relayed by the NTIS. Unfortunately for those who want to send everything via 500 Hz in serial format, all Federal agencies are looking for something to handle their requests in formatted binary/compressed packages. P1 and P2 can move this along in an environment that is not time critical, but, in all cases, if you want to get the info flowing in large quantity for timely delivery, you have to dedicate the bandwidth to do so. That is why we aren't using 8 bit machines running at 4.77 MHz anymore. Beginning to see a pattern here? Cheers, David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Struebel Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com; David Little Cc: Tom Hesler; Scott Walker; Russell T Hack jr; Rick W; Richard Krohn; Pierre Mainville; Norman Schklar; N2GJ; Mike Taylor; MICHAEL TALKINGTON; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KW1U Marcia Forde; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KC2ANN; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John W. Tipka; John Miller; Jim Dry; Gil Follett; George Thomas; Frank Van Cleef; Frank Fallon; expeditionradio; Ewald, Steve, WV1X; Earl Moore; Earl Leach (WX4J); David B. Popkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dave Knight; Dan Ostroy; Dale Sewell; Benson Scott; Arnold; AG2R Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies David, You have your opinion I call tell you that NTS and NTSD is going stong... Last month Eastern Area NTSD handled over 10,000 messages Regarding the distaste for P3, it is a spectrum hog at 2.4 Khz more suited to commerical applications (where there are fixed channels) rather than the narrow bandwidths used in ham radio... Although NTSD for the most part has P3 capability, we still use P1 and preferably P2 which both have a bandwidth of 500 Hz. especially since most of our operation is confined within the automatic control subbands. By the way NTS and NTSD is self funded... We do it for the love of the hobby and public service 73 Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: David mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Little To: digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. The Ham community showed their distaste for P3, so it has been largely moved to NTIA frequencies. Unfortunately, it set the stage for loss of confidence in the Amateur Community for Emergency Communications over a long range, unless they are self-funding the entire response.. There still are some RMS Pactor stations on the Ham spectrum, and some using P3 for Keyboard to Keyboard use. Most of them are candidates for MARS service as they continue to get the flack from the contesters. Everyone eventually gets whet they want. Some are late to realize that what they got in return wasn't actually what they wanted... Enjoy, David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:30 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Becker, WŘJAB Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB _ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -
[digitalradio] CQ
CALLING CQ 7040 FIRST CLAUDIO-lu2vcd
[digitalradio] CQ
CALLING CQ 7040 FIRST CLAUDIO-lu2vcd
Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
David, I have been a ham for many years and follow most all public service/emergency communications issues quite closely. I have never heard of your claims below from any reputable source. If you read QST and follow ARRL BOD decisions you would know that the ARRL has supported any and all public service approaches. While it is true that there is the Winlink 2000 system that uses proprietary and non-proprietary modes, there are also several non-proprietary systems to choose from with another on the way. Some of these modes are wide bandwidth but kept within an MF/HF phone band width as required under Part 97 here in the U.S. Some of the digital modes which have been around for a long time can be near to, or even more than, 2000 kHz wide. Even one of the The old MIL-STD-188-141A (often referred to as one of the ALE modes) goes back to development in the 1970's. And newer modes, e.g., MT-63, Olivia, etc. have been around for some years and are sometimes used in wide mode, depending upon conditions. Point us to some of the actual source material you found that supports your belief about what the ARRL has done. 73, Rick, KV9U Moderator, HFDEC yahoogroup (Hams for Disaster and Emergency Communications) David Little wrote: Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. The Ham community showed their distaste for P3, so it has been largely moved to NTIA frequencies. Unfortunately, it set the stage for loss of confidence in the Amateur Community for Emergency Communications over a long range, unless they are self-funding the entire response.. There still are some RMS Pactor stations on the Ham spectrum, and some using P3 for Keyboard to Keyboard use. Most of them are candidates for MARS service as they continue to get the flack from the contesters. Everyone eventually gets whet they want. Some are late to realize that what they got in return wasn't actually what they wanted... Enjoy, David KD4NUE
[digitalradio] Re: Hams only for last mile ?
I just heard from a reliable senior ARRL source, that this is not true. Andy K3UK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andrew O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did they really ??? Andy K3UK 2008/11/23 David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. Enjoy, David KD4NUE -Original Message- *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave AA6YQ *Sent:* Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:30 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *John Becker, W�JAB *Sent:* Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB -- Andy K3UK
RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
Rick, Andy, All, It is totally unreliable, undocumented and probably not reputable. I can't remember if it was during Huntsville or Dayton that the headshed made these assertions and small publicity came out afterwards. For the most part this discussion has always flown under the radar. It never gets too much attention, and should probably be swept under the rug as uncomfortable. After all, All amateurs can directly interface with FEMA, GEMA, TSA, EPA, and the other Agencies and Federal entities that make up the SHARES network, so there is no need for any division between use of FCC (ARRL) Spectrum and NTIA (MARS / SHARES / Federal ) spectrum. Someone has to provide ground truth reporting of the actual incident, so I guess it should be an Amateur from a few hundred miles out, rather than a local operator using last mile infrastructure. I guess it is more comfortable thinking that the converse is the rule. Think about it. If you were managing communications to save lives and property, would you rely on relay, or direct contact? Would you expect remote reporting of local conditions from hundreds of miles away, when last mile infrastructure was in place and able to do so? Would you use a group that maintained rigid net discipline and regular, daily training, or someone who shows up to an Incident Command center with a dead battery in his HT and hungry? Would you expect your ARRL AREC diplomas to allow admittance to a Incident Command site that is functioning under NIMS, or would you travel with certificates of completion of IS100, IS200, IS700 and IS800A? (MARS is considering requiring both; at present, only ICS for Billet Call holders are required.) Do you know what NIMS is; what ESF#2 is, what the National Support Framework is?. Do you know what TWIC is? (On December 2nd, you certainly will). Emergency Communications is a subject that is undergoing great flux... If wideband digital modes are what is required to send and receive an IS213 form in proper formatting, it stands to reason that any Federal response would require the medium that is capable of delivering. Anything else is inviting failure. If the mode is unwelcome on FCC governed spectrum, and has an active and efficient network on NTIA spectrum, which would you choose? As for non ARQ modes, I have used MT-63, Olivia, and even played with Contestia in 2000Hz bandwidths. Each is somewhat useful for unformatted text and forward error correction. EasyPal looks very promising and the programmers have been very responsive to tailoring it for the MARS program; because someone thought enough to ask. I hope that WinMor will be in the competition with Pactor III and other Proprietary modes, but it will all boil down to bandwidth necessary to carry compressed information. That is what the entire discussion is and has been about. At present, the only way to get the job done to the requirements of the served agencies, on a Federal Response is on NTIA spectrum, as they allow wide-band digital formats. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain; I was only kidding. David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick W Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:33 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies David, I have been a ham for many years and follow most all public service/emergency communications issues quite closely. I have never heard of your claims below from any reputable source. If you read QST and follow ARRL BOD decisions you would know that the ARRL has supported any and all public service approaches. While it is true that there is the Winlink 2000 system that uses proprietary and non-proprietary modes, there are also several non-proprietary systems to choose from with another on the way. Some of these modes are wide bandwidth but kept within an MF/HF phone band width as required under Part 97 here in the U.S. Some of the digital modes which have been around for a long time can be near to, or even more than, 2000 kHz wide. Even one of the The old MIL-STD-188-141A (often referred to as one of the ALE modes) goes back to development in the 1970's. And newer modes, e.g., MT-63, Olivia, etc. have been around for some years and are sometimes used in wide mode, depending upon conditions. Point us to some of the actual source material you found that supports your belief about what the ARRL has done. 73, Rick, KV9U Moderator, HFDEC yahoogroup (Hams for Disaster and Emergency Communications) David Little wrote: Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide only last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications. The Ham community showed their distaste for P3, so it has been largely moved to NTIA frequencies. Unfortunately, it set the stage for loss of
Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies
Here we go again.. Dave AA6YQ wrote: Re I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked Your blatant trolling counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few more bits... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Becker, WŘJAB Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies While we in this area was up to our back side with water early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us. FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas such as this there is very little cell coverage if any. If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten from point A to point B. I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked. Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line. John, W0JAB No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1807 - Release Date: 23.11.2008 10:59
