Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
On 01/21/07 05:53 pm Andrew O'Brien wrote: I have even heard now, in my country of canada, that you can pass the exam after a weekend course My question.. how can someone learn about electronics and ham radio in one A whole weekend? Nah, one day. One local club has a Ham In A Day sessions, I think it is 8 hours and after than you take the test. A club in the area where I used to live advertised a Ham in a Day class, and I inquired about it for my teenage son. They told me it was *not* intended for people starting from scratch but assumed that participants had gone through the material on their own first. 73 Alan NV8A
Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
I am sure it will be similar to the pent up demand we had when the Technician license became code free and many new entrants took the test. Because VHF and up is less compelling than daily occurence of longer distance communications with HF, it may be that we will see continuing interest. A nearby city where I used to live and give the classes for Technician and held VE sessions quite regularly, now has the Ham in a day program. Basically, they will take anyone and go over the test questions in the morning and early afternoon and then test later in the day. They have a very high pass rate. Apparently, some students have had minimal exposure to radio are able to pass. I would not personally we willing to run such a test session, because anyone who is not willing to meet for a couple of hours for six weeks and study the material, will likely never stay with amateur radio anyway. There are many competing interests out there and everyone picks the things that interest them the most. We include a lot of show and tell, demonstrations of equipment and simple antennas, and hands on components. One thing that I don't fully understand is why people are taking element 3 or higher now. They will have to pay the fee all over again at another VE test to have the paperwork submitted for the new no code General or Extra Class license. My wife, who is studying for her General, although she has very little interest in HF, thought that the reason might be that they were ready for the test and did not want to take the chance of getting stale by the time of the next VE test session. Like most things, she is probably right about that:) 73, Rick, KV9U James M Punderson IV wrote: Hi Rick, I work as a VE for some clubs here in NJ. We just had a session last Thursday at which instead of the usual 2 or 3 test takers, we had eleven of which seven were Technicians taking the General written exam. So if that's any indication, there is a lot of interest in HF out there. I think from talking to those folks at the session that this will enhance the chances of them sticking with ham radio. Jamie Punderson, W2QO
[digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
Hi Rick, I carefully explained to each person taking the General test at our VE session that they would have to come back again and pay $14 again in a month or so for the actual license upgrade and they all nevertheless wanted to take the test immediately. I think they prepared when the news first came out and hadn't counted on the FCC regulation implmentation delay and as you suggested, they didn't want the studying to leak out by waiting another month. Jamie Punderson, W2QO -- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure it will be similar to the pent up demand we had when the Technician license became code free and many new entrants took the test. Because VHF and up is less compelling than daily occurence of longer distance communications with HF, it may be that we will see continuing interest. A nearby city where I used to live and give the classes for Technician and held VE sessions quite regularly, now has the Ham in a day program. Basically, they will take anyone and go over the test questions in the morning and early afternoon and then test later in the day. They have a very high pass rate. Apparently, some students have had minimal exposure to radio are able to pass. I would not personally we willing to run such a test session, because anyone who is not willing to meet for a couple of hours for six weeks and study the material, will likely never stay with amateur radio anyway. There are many competing interests out there and everyone picks the things that interest them the most. We include a lot of show and tell, demonstrations of equipment and simple antennas, and hands on components. One thing that I don't fully understand is why people are taking element 3 or higher now. They will have to pay the fee all over again at another VE test to have the paperwork submitted for the new no code General or Extra Class license. My wife, who is studying for her General, although she has very little interest in HF, thought that the reason might be that they were ready for the test and did not want to take the chance of getting stale by the time of the next VE test session. Like most things, she is probably right about that:) 73, Rick, KV9U James M Punderson IV wrote: Hi Rick, I work as a VE for some clubs here in NJ. We just had a session last Thursday at which instead of the usual 2 or 3 test takers, we had eleven of which seven were Technicians taking the General written exam. So if that's any indication, there is a lot of interest in HF out there. I think from talking to those folks at the session that this will enhance the chances of them sticking with ham radio. Jamie Punderson, W2QO
Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
I was in this same boat, but when I went to take the test I was prepared. Had I waited another 5 weeks I would have to continue studying and wondering if I could pass the test. One possibility is that I could take the extra test when I upgrade to general. The issue with this is I am not ready for the extra test and I doubt I will be ready in 4 weeks. k6wrj - Original Message - From: James M Punderson IV To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23 Hi Rick, I carefully explained to each person taking the General test at our VE session that they would have to come back again and pay $14 again in a month or so for the actual license upgrade and they all nevertheless wanted to take the test immediately. I think they prepared when the news first came out and hadn't counted on the FCC regulation implmentation delay and as you suggested, they didn't want the studying to leak out by waiting another month. Jamie Punderson, W2QO -- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure it will be similar to the pent up demand we had when the Technician license became code free and many new entrants took the test. Because VHF and up is less compelling than daily occurence of longer distance communications with HF, it may be that we will see continuing interest. A nearby city where I used to live and give the classes for Technician and held VE sessions quite regularly, now has the Ham in a day program. Basically, they will take anyone and go over the test questions in the morning and early afternoon and then test later in the day. They have a very high pass rate. Apparently, some students have had minimal exposure to radio are able to pass. I would not personally we willing to run such a test session, because anyone who is not willing to meet for a couple of hours for six weeks and study the material, will likely never stay with amateur radio anyway. There are many competing interests out there and everyone picks the things that interest them the most. We include a lot of show and tell, demonstrations of equipment and simple antennas, and hands on components. One thing that I don't fully understand is why people are taking element 3 or higher now. They will have to pay the fee all over again at another VE test to have the paperwork submitted for the new no code General or Extra Class license. My wife, who is studying for her General, although she has very little interest in HF, thought that the reason might be that they were ready for the test and did not want to take the chance of getting stale by the time of the next VE test session. Like most things, she is probably right about that:) 73, Rick, KV9U James M Punderson IV wrote: Hi Rick, I work as a VE for some clubs here in NJ. We just had a session last Thursday at which instead of the usual 2 or 3 test takers, we had eleven of which seven were Technicians taking the General written exam. So if that's any indication, there is a lot of interest in HF out there. I think from talking to those folks at the session that this will enhance the chances of them sticking with ham radio. Jamie Punderson, W2QO
Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
You are not alone in your thoughts. Our Technician class is 9 weeks, 2 hours every Monday afternoon, then testing. When the individuals obtain their licenses they are fully qualified and knowledgeable Hams as well as fully qualified Emergency Communications citizens. We start with 6, 7 and 8th graders with a few high schoolers and parent/teachers tossed in and learn, not memorize what has to be known to truly be Hams. Many have advanced to General and even Extra from these classes. Even though they at this point only have their Tech license, they are fully qualified to operate all positions on our station, W7HMS. In the event of an incident in the area, there will always be a higher class licensee there so they do and can operate the HF as well as the VHF/UHF rigs. Our school is an evacuation center so we have walkie talkies for the kids to bird dog in the gyms and pass traffic upstairs to the station for HF transmission to the Red Cross and EOC. During exercises they put some of the older operators to shame and the Fed monitoring teams always write glowing reports on their performances. After more than 50 years in the Hobby, my personal thought is that the people who run these memorization classes are doing a dis-service to the students. There is NO way that these licensees after 6 or 8 hours are going to know anything about Ham radio let alone all of the ancillary benefits that go with being a true Ham. Yes they know the answers to the questions but know nothing at all of any background to the question or why the question is included in the pool. After serving in numerous emergency situations, I have seen where one wrong word in a message can cost lives. Are these new licensees qualified, as the rules require, to be able to conduct emergency communications? My soap box is creaking so I'll just continue as we are and have been doing. I learned also long ago that you do not easily change minds. 73 Les I am sure it will be similar to the pent up demand we had when the Technician license became code free and many new entrants took the test. Because VHF and up is less compelling than daily occurence of longer distance communications with HF, it may be that we will see continuing interest. A nearby city where I used to live and give the classes for Technician and held VE sessions quite regularly, now has the Ham in a day program. Basically, they will take anyone and go over the test questions in the morning and early afternoon and then test later in the day. They have a very high pass rate. Apparently, some students have had minimal exposure to radio are able to pass. I would not personally we willing to run such a test session, because anyone who is not willing to meet for a couple of hours for six weeks and study the material, will likely never stay with amateur radio anyway. There are many competing interests out there and everyone picks the things that interest them the most. We include a lot of show and tell, demonstrations of equipment and simple antennas, and hands on components. One thing that I don't fully understand is why people are taking element 3 or higher now. They will have to pay the fee all over again at another VE test to have the paperwork submitted for the new no code General or Extra Class license. My wife, who is studying for her General, although she has very little interest in HF, thought that the reason might be that they were ready for the test and did not want to take the chance of getting stale by the time of the next VE test session. Like most things, she is probably right about that:) 73, Rick, KV9U James M Punderson IV wrote: Hi Rick, I work as a VE for some clubs here in NJ. We just had a session last Thursday at which instead of the usual 2 or 3 test takers, we had eleven of which seven were Technicians taking the General written exam. So if that's any indication, there is a lot of interest in HF out there. I think from talking to those folks at the session that this will enhance the chances of them sticking with ham radio. Jamie Punderson, W2QO
[digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
Larry, I live in the larger Toronto area like you and do teach basic and advanced ham radio courses privately to a select number of people and never heard about it. It is just impossible to that in one weekend as you noticed. I guess it is nuch more as one weekend :=) Even to go over the questions alone they need much more time. 73, Bob VE3TOK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, larry allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have even heard now, in my country of canada, that you can pass the exam after a weekend course My question.. how can someone learn about electronics and ham radio in one weekend? Larry ve3fxq - Original Message - From: F.R. Ashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] US Hams Codeless Feb 23 I have always felt the CW issue was not really about CW. Guess that sounds a bit odd. It seems to me most see it as a reduction of standards, dumbing down so to speak. I think CW did act as a filter of some sort because it did indeed keep some people from getting their license, whether or not they would have been good hams.But love it or hate it, the requirement is gone, so deal with it however you can. Personally, I have always been in favor of keeping the requirement, along with tests that require you to learn something. However I won't throw up my hands in despair, at least not yet. None of us knows what the future of ham radio is or how this CW issue will pan out. Let's just hope for the best, encourage new people, and elmer them to be good hams. Have fun. Buddy WB4M
Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
Bob; several years ago UBC amatuer radio society developed a weekend course aimed at primarily engineering and science students with considerably more nimble brains than I. We took the weekend program, added more meat to it and taught a bunch of folks involved in EMO activities, over 4 days at about 7 hours per day, bringing in a number of hams from the community to teach their specialty... ie antennas. we had an 80% pass rate, and since then have expanded this further into a longer evening class at 4 hours each session. John VE5MU - Original Message - From: astronastron To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:05 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23 Larry, I live in the larger Toronto area like you and do teach basic and advanced ham radio courses privately to a select number of people and never heard about it. It is just impossible to that in one weekend as you noticed. I guess it is nuch more as one weekend :=) Even to go over the questions alone they need much more time. 73, Bob VE3TOK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, larry allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have even heard now, in my country of canada, that you can pass the exam after a weekend course My question.. how can someone learn about electronics and ham radio in one weekend? Larry ve3fxq - Original Message - From: F.R. Ashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] US Hams Codeless Feb 23 I have always felt the CW issue was not really about CW. Guess that sounds a bit odd. It seems to me most see it as a reduction of standards, dumbing down so to speak. I think CW did act as a filter of some sort because it did indeed keep some people from getting their license, whether or not they would have been good hams. But love it or hate it, the requirement is gone, so deal with it however you can. Personally, I have always been in favor of keeping the requirement, along with tests that require you to learn something. However I won't throw up my hands in despair, at least not yet. None of us knows what the future of ham radio is or how this CW issue will pan out. Let's just hope for the best, encourage new people, and elmer them to be good hams. Have fun. Buddy WB4M -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007 5:12 PM
[digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, astronastron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have even heard now, in my country of canada, that you can pass the exam after a weekend course My question.. how can someone learn about electronics and ham radio in one A whole weekend? Nah, one day. One local club has a Ham In A Day sessions, I think it is 8 hours and after than you take the test. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
Larry, We issue the The ARRL Ham Radio Manual and ask the student to read that material and take practice tests on the www.aa9pw.com website prior to class start. Our classes run Friday night, 6-9pm, Saturday 8:30am to 5:30m, Sunday 8:30am to noon. Break for 1.5 hour lunch and start the test session for all license classes at 1:30pm sharp. We have tried this three times now and have an 80% pass rate with and 90% on air rate once they receive their call sign. During the class, we assign an Elmer to them to help the student with concepts, practical matters (rig selection, antenna selection/ building, soldering, etc.) post examination. This system seems to work well for most people and several students have gone on to upgrade to General, one went on to Extra. We are not doing code in this system and have attempted twice to do code session, both have fallen apart due to lack of participation. Yearly, we also will run a four week course , running two three hour sessions/per week with a test at the end of the class. This system seems to work for folks that need more time and extra hand holding. An elmer is also assigned to the student to ensure continuity after the class. I took this concept from the MicroHams group at Microsoft in Bellevue, WA. They seemed to be successful and we have enjoyed this same success. Good Luck! 73, Rhett, KB4HG *** On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:05 PM, astronastron wrote: Larry, I live in the larger Toronto area like you and do teach basic and advanced ham radio courses privately to a select number of people and never heard about it. It is just impossible to that in one weekend as you noticed. I guess it is nuch more as one weekend :=) Even to go over the questions alone they need much more time. 73, Bob VE3TOK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, larry allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have even heard now, in my country of canada, that you can pass the exam after a weekend course My question.. how can someone learn about electronics and ham radio in one weekend? Larry ve3fxq - Original Message - From: F.R. Ashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] US Hams Codeless Feb 23 I have always felt the CW issue was not really about CW. Guess that sounds a bit odd. It seems to me most see it as a reduction of standards, dumbing down so to speak. I think CW did act as a filter of some sort because it did indeed keep some people from getting their license, whether or not they would have been good hams. But love it or hate it, the requirement is gone, so deal with it however you can. Personally, I have always been in favor of keeping the requirement, along with tests that require you to learn something. However I won't throw up my hands in despair, at least not yet. None of us knows what the future of ham radio is or how this CW issue will pan out. Let's just hope for the best, encourage new people, and elmer them to be good hams. Have fun. Buddy WB4M
[digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andrew O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is great news for the CW part of the hobby. I predict an eventual INCREASE in CW activity on the bands, To paraphrase A.A., CW should be via attraction rather than promotion (or legislation). Andy k3UK I agree. I'll be at the first VE session after the 23rd to get my Extra ticket. To me CW is just another mode, like digital modes. People should be free try either mode, but shouldn't be limited by having to take a test for every different mode they wanna use. There's too many hams out there that learned code just to get their extra ticket and then proceeded to forget all of it over the years. I plan on continiuing to practice my CW, not because i have to, but because i want to. The numbers of young hams, such as myself, seem to be dwindling in recent years. We need to do something to get more good young operators into the hobby. In all the other younger people i've talked to tried to get interested in ham radio, many say that they always hated the fact that they had to learn morse code to get on the lower frequncies. Many people today see ham radio as something that's done by a bunch of old guys, and that it's out of touch with the current technology. Eliminating barriers to obtaining ham tickets advancing your license will bring may more worthy amateurs into the hobby. There's alot of very smart technically-minded people out there that would make great hams. We need to be actively recruiting elmering new hams or else the current crop of hams will get old ham radio will pass away. I don't want to see that happen... ps... I hope to see you all on the airwaves, finally, after the 23rd of Feb. 73's Vince - KB9SJT
[digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
Unlike any of the other modes, it is a SKILL SET, and not just something from memory, or which can be picked up in a few minutes of operatin,such as PSK. the CW rule (way back in the mid 60s) it was ILLEGAL for any government to allow any ham who had not demonstrated their SKILL in CW (It did not mention a code speed)was not to be allowed operations on the HF bands. That was an international law and no government had the right to go against it in their own country whether they wanted to or not. CW is like learning a foreign language and not everyone can learn a different language, and if you can some are better then others at it. I memorized the different dots and dashes for the different letters when I learned CW and I know it was not the correct way to do it. As far as using CW to show a skill I disagree, because in the 60's in the old Novice days of 1yr or upgrade, I had hard enough time listening for my call let alone call it a skill, even though I passed the test. I am tired of hearing all the crying and gashing of teeth about the downfall of Amateur Radio because of no more code. The same thing was said in the 50's about bringing in the Novice license, or the advent of Voice. I think that the requirement should have stayed for Extra Class, but the FCC decided that it isn't necessary anymore. Now it is time to get over it, and move on. CW hasn't gone away, it is just not a requirement for HF. There are a lot of great CW group FIST/SKCC/NVARC that still promote CW. Show the no-codes that CW can be fun, just like the other modes. As far as other countries and CW the international law stated CW was required for operation on 30mhz or below, anything about was left up to the country itself. The last WARC they decided that CW was no longer need as a requirement and left it up to the individual country to decide. Kurt K8YZK 20wpm Extra.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
My perspective on the code issue spans about 50 years now. When I was 11 years old I discovered amateur radio. I already was interested in science and electricity but did not really have a grasp of what electronics was all about. My entry was through Popular Electronics magazine which had a good mix of entry level to advanced projects as well as simple explanations of these projects and also information on amateur radio, including short stories that often brought amateur radio into the picture. The difficult part was the morse code requirement which I did not find very interesting. A few years later I learned morse code in the Boy Scouts but it was done with the pictograph approach and while that eventually helped me pass the 5 wpm Novice test but locked me into a slow speed since I did not realize that I could never do much more than 8 or 10 wpm using this technique. Being quite low income, I simply did not have enough money for good equipment and struggled to make a few daytime contacts on 80 and 40 with a few crystals. I never found even one other person close to my age who was interested enough in ham radio to work toward a license and this was in a community of about 5,000 with a surrounding rural population. After my Novice ran out I took the Technician which was also by mail. This was actually the General written exam but at the 5 wpm for the code. In college I operated 2 meter AM phone and participated in my first disaster activity with the Mississippi River flooding of 1965. Other local hams worked 2 meter phone, but most were active with HF. I was in awe of many of these folks with their ability to send CW at 13 wpm and even more. I was in the military after college and let my license expire when overseas on Wake Is., never even meeting the other ham or two who would run phone patches for some of the military personnel. Because of my continued interest in electronics (as a hobby mostly), I was experimenting with LF designs popularized by Ken Cornell, and wound up getting my old Allied Radio code record that my mother had saved all those years and got relicensed as a Novice in 1980. Surprisingly, I found the CW to be much more enjoyable and even got involved a little bit in the slow speed traffic nets. I had enough income that I could afford to go to the FCC examining station some 150 miles away and take my General Class test in only a few months after being relicensed. In the next few years I passed my Commercial General Radiotelephone license and then working everyday for over a year practicing my CW, I was able to return one more time to the FCC examing station and pass my Advanced and Extra written exams and 20 wpm CW in one test session. If I had not done it that day, I would likely have never gone back again. This allowed me to be the first VE in my area and set up the first test sessions. A number of the hams who I had been in awe of years ago, now came to the first test session and upgraded to Extra. Now we had a critical mass of new Extra Class hams in our area for future test sessions. The truth is that for people like me, where CW does not come easily, there is no way that I would have expended that much energy and time to acquire that skill unless I was forced to do it. Now I have a moderate skill but will never be a CW DXer type or QRQ savvy operator. But I do copy some CW almost everyday and find it a nice skill to have that almost no one else in the world has except for a relatively small group of us. That group is shrinking. All you have to do is see how many fewer CW signals there are on the bands, traffic nets, etc. CW proficiency was made a requirement for radio amateur licensing in the past because governments could insure a pool of CW proficient operators at basically no expense to the government. Since CW expertise no longer has the same value to governments as it once did, the need to induce people to push themselves to become better operators is no longer there. I do not believe that many new hams will become involved with CW. Yes, some will, but the more technically inclined, who may not have interest in CW, will not. CW was an effective filter to keep out those who were not really motivated individuals to get a license. However, some of the somewhat neurotic personality traits that are required to learn the technical and code proficiency may not always lend themselves to what we would call well balanced or well rounded individuals. It doesn't filter those kind of folks. But it was effective at insuring that highly technical folks, who had no interest in CW, were filtered out. But, because the license is so incredibly easy to get now, with drastically lower technical and zero code proficiency and locally available exams, we can expect to have more entrants than we would have with all the former requirements. But we may have less than in the past because there may not be that many who are truly that
[digitalradio] Re: US Hams Codeless Feb 23
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Danny Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we should require EVERYONE that wanted to work CW, to take a test in that mode. Unlike any of the other modes, it is a SKILL SET, and not just something from memory, Whatever next Danny? Should we be able to read punched paper tape at 20WPM before operating RTTY? Coastal Radio operators had to do it for their licence. Or perhaps touch typing at 60wpm before any permitting other Digital keyboard mode, or a Photography course for SSTV? Considering some of the accents I've heard from the USA, perhaps an assessment by a speech therapist before being permitted Phone? ;-) I too, have always hated the compulsory nature of CW being a hurdle and keeping me away from the bigger chunks of HF, but I passed it 18 years ago and never used it since. Now, I find it more interesting and am considering practising again. I've never understood what was so special about Morse Code that it required a separate exam of it's own, and why so many hams were ready to preclude so may other good operators from HF because of it. It sounds like religious snobbery. This time, new operators will be on CW because they love it, not because they HAD to learn it. By the way, it's always good to bear in mind the dictionary definition of the word Amateur. It doesn't mean Unprofessional, as some may think. Brad VK2QQ
