[digitalradio] Vista Run-time error and ROS
Has anyone had any luck running ROS with Vista? Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Vista Run-time error and ROS
No, I get a run time error 50003. Bob C WU9Q - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 7:50 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Vista Run-time error and ROS Has anyone had any luck running ROS with Vista? Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Vista Native Sample Rate
All, Does anyone know how to change the native sample rate for USB sound cards with Vista? I'm told the native setting is hidden and not in the normal sound card settings. Thanks, Tony -K2MO
RE: [digitalradio] Vista
Once I was told that XP also took adventage of some BSD code. Well, it makes a good trivia question. The Windows NT TCP/IP network stack had components that were originally based on BSD code. But the OS itself? No, not that I've ever seen. de Peter K1PGV
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
NT 3.1 and 3.5 was based on OS/2.
- Original Message
From: Simon Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:20:56 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista
NT's background is OpenVMS.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
- - - - --
From: Peter G. Viscarola [EMAIL PROTECTED] com
The Windows NT TCP/IP network stack had components that were originally
based on BSD code. But the OS itself? No, not that I've ever seen.
!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding:0 0;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color:#ff;text-decoration:none;}
--
!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family:Arial;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
--
!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family:Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family:Arial;
clear:both;}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding:0 1px;}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float:left;white-space:nowrap;}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;
padding:5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;}
#reco-grpname{
font-weight:bold;margin-top:10px;}
#reco-category{
font-size:77%;}
#reco-desc{
font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding:0;margin:2px 0;}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration:underline;}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color:#999;font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding:8px 0;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration:underline;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin:0;}
o{font-size:0;}
.MsoNormal{
margin:0 0 0 0;}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size:120%;}
blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4;}
--
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
I read the article. Nonetheless, the first NT release was originally
intended to be 'the next' OS/2 release. Believe it or not, IBM and
MS were in a partnership at that time.
When MS went off on their own, IBM took over OS/2 from them.
I have an interesting video clip of Bill Gates saying OS/2, the
operating system of the future.
I lived through that experience. Now I use Linux.
- Original Message
From: Dave AA6YQ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:35:27 AM
Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Vista
See
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Dave_Cutler_ (software_ engineer)
73,
Dave,
AA6YQ
-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:digitalradi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
com]On Behalf Of Simon Brown
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:21 AM
To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista
NT's background is OpenVMS.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
- - - - --
From: Peter G. Viscarola [EMAIL PROTECTED] com
The Windows NT TCP/IP network stack had components that were originally
based on BSD code. But the OS itself? No, not that I've ever seen.
!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding:0 0;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color:#ff;text-decoration:none;}
--
!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family:Arial;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
--
!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family:Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family:Arial;
clear:both;}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding:0 1px;}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float:left;white-space:nowrap;}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;
padding:5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;}
#reco-grpname{
font-weight:bold;margin-top:10px;}
#reco-category{
font-size:77%;}
#reco-desc{
font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding:0;margin:2px 0;}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration:underline;}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color:#999;font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding:8px 0;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration:underline;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin:0;}
o{font-size:0;}
.MsoNormal{
margin:0 0 0 0;}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size:120%;}
blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4;}
--
RE: [digitalradio] Vista (more... Windows History)
QUOTE NT's background is OpenVMS. /QUOTE QUOTE NT 3.1 and 3.5 was based on OS/2. /QUOTE Each of the above is PARTIALLY correct. To properly attribute Windows, we need a bit of history. To those who are not interested, sorry for the rambling off-topic post. Please just hit delete. Today's Windows OS was originally called Windows NT. Windows NT was, in large part, designed by Dave Cutler. Cutler was the author of the PDP-11 operating system RSX-11M for Digital Equipment Corporation. He went on (with Dick Hustefedt) to design and implement VMS. After VMS, Cutler worked on a number of projects (including another OS called VaxELN, a PL1 compiler, and several others), eventually founding DEC West and heading development of the Mica OS which was to run on DEC's new Prism processor architecture. When Prism and Mica were canceled, Cutler left DEC West to join Microsoft, where they began working on writing an entirely new (replacement) for OS/2. This was back when Microsoft and IBM were partners. The idea was to create an operating system that would run well on RISC processors (which were all the rage at the time), and was not dependent on any specific processor architecture. The new operating system was named NT OS/2 (the NT part, relates to the code name of original processor for which the OS was targeted, and only later was retrofitted with the meaning New Technology when the processor part of the project was dropped). After Microsoft and IBM had their major falling out (fueled, in no small part, by the decisions taken about NTOS2 interfaces), the OS/2 part of the OS name was dropped, and the OS was referred to simply as NT. The first version of Windows NT was V3.1 (reflecting the huge success and popularity of Windows V3.1) was released in 1993. This operating system evolved into the Windows OS we have today. In today's Windows OS architecture, you can see echos of both VMS and RSX-11M. While the inspiration for NT was OS/2, I am not aware of any part of OS/2 that was incorporated in the NT project (except for one of the OS/2 developers, that is). de Peter K1PGV
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Actually after reading the Wikipedia article on Windows NT : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT It was originally intended to BE OS/2, but Microsoft mucked up the works by changing from the original API and switching to their own API. That upset IBM (their partner in the development of OS/2) who then split off and developed OS/2 on their own leaving MS to make NT work. Dave Cutler (referred to by Dave AA6YQ) was hired from DEC about that time to finish the work on NT and he used his knowledge of VMS (not Open VMS) and other DEC OS's to finish up NT. So in a way most of you are correct. Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY - Original Message - From: Howard Brown NT 3.1 and 3.5 was based on OS/2. - Original Message From: Simon Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] NT's background is OpenVMS. Simon Brown, HB9DRV - - - - -- From: Peter G. Viscarola [EMAIL PROTECTED] com The Windows NT TCP/IP network stack had components that were originally based on BSD code. But the OS itself? No, not that I've ever seen. . smile.gif
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
OS/2 lives still, with no help at all from IBM (which, even if it wanted to open-source OS/2, is alleged to have lost the source code of crucial parts of the operating system) but with much help from dedicated programmers in Russia, Eastern Europe and other countries: http://www.ecomstation.com I have it running on two AMD dual-core machines (OS/2 supported 64 CPUs from way back) with on-board Gigabit networking and sound. 73 Alan NV8A On 03/30/08 12:38 pm Howard Brown wrote: I read the article. Nonetheless, the first NT release was originally intended to be 'the next' OS/2 release. Believe it or not, IBM and MS were in a partnership at that time. When MS went off on their own, IBM took over OS/2 from them. I have an interesting video clip of Bill Gates saying OS/2, the operating system of the future. I lived through that experience. Now I use Linux.
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Actually, the Mac OS is based on Linux. FWIW, after using PCs since 1982, I'm now using a Mac. I got tired of all the virus (and anti-virus) hassles with the Windows environment. Ken WA8JXM On Mar 25, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Howard Brown wrote: It appears your opinion is shared by others: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8541837412.html? kc=EWKNLNAV032408STR4 An excerpt: For the first time in ages, the sale of new PCs with Windows as a percentage of the PC market is declining sharply. The new winner is the Mac, but, while no one does a good job of tracking the still- new, pre-installed Linux desktop market, it's also clear that Linux is finally making impressive inroads into Windows' once unchallenged market share.
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Actually, Mac is based on Unix as is Linux. I have been using a Mac since 1987 and have never worried about a virus etc. Lately I have been playing with Linux which I think is great and has all the Ham apps for digital that I need although for contesting I use Cocoamodem on the Mac. The latest version of Ubuntu, 8.04, is impressive especially on an old 733 Mhz Compaq I have. If you would like to test Ubuntu, you can now install it on your Windoze machine without partitioning the hard drive and everything is in one folder so you can remove it easily. I tried this on a computer I bought at an auction with windowsXp installed but immediately installed Linux but left the other system on it. If you would like to try Ubuntu give this a try. Darrel On 29-Mar-08, at 10:49 AM, Ken Meinken wrote: Actually, the Mac OS is based on Linux. FWIW, after using PCs since 1982, I'm now using a Mac. I got tired of all the virus (and anti-virus) hassles with the Windows environment. Ken WA8JXM On Mar 25, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Howard Brown wrote: It appears your opinion is shared by others: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8541837412.html?kc=EWKNLNAV032408STR4 An excerpt: For the first time in ages, the sale of new PCs with Windows as a percentage of the PC market is declining sharply. The new winner is the Mac, but, while no one does a good job of tracking the still- new, pre-installed Linux desktop market, it's also clear that Linux is finally making impressive inroads into Windows' once unchallenged market share.
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Might want to check that one -- I think you'll find it's derived from BSD, not Linux. 73, - ps Ken Meinken wrote: Actually, the Mac OS is based on Linux.
RE: [digitalradio] Vista
Most all of the people that write all this neg about Vista have no idea about what they are talking about. Agreed. Vista is a good program and is superior to XP. Sorry, I disagree. I'm a kernel-mode programmer. I do Windows operating-system level work for a living. For a lot of reasons, Vista was ill-fated from the start. From the decision to write the shell using managed code (reversed), to the creation of an entirely new installation procedure (that precludes anything resembling a normal upgrade), to the requirement that x64 drivers be signed, to the inclusion of UAC (even in its final, toned down version), to the fact that it shipped based on the date and not because the bugs were out of it... Vista is a problem. It is NOT true that ever OS release is alike. Windows 2000 was a very destabilizing release, and (much like Vista) had a LOT of problems when it was released. Many users (and companies) simply skipped Windows 2000 in favor of staying with NT V4, which was MUCH more stable. On the other hand, Windows XP was a *very good* operating system at the time it was released (I installed it on my personal machine as soon as it went gold... something I would NEVER consider doing unless the OS provided significant advantages). Windows Server 2003 SP1 (and later) is a *very* good operating system (which I, again, installed as soon as it was released). I seriously suspect that Vista will be one of those releases that many companies (and many users) just skip over. I wouldn't run it on my personal machines and don't recommend others run it. I'm gonna stick with XP wait to see how Windows 7 turns out. de Peter K1PGV
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Paul L Schmidt, K9PS wrote: Might want to check that one -- I think you'll find it's derived from BSD, not Linux. 73, - ps Ken Meinken wrote: Actually, the Mac OS is based on Linux. Once I was told that XP also took adventage of some BSD code. Jose, CO2JA
[digitalradio] Vista
I have been sitting here reading all this things about Vista. Now lets go back to when XP was new. Everyone said and wrote all this stuff about XP. Before that it was Win98 and so on. I am heavy into the computer industry and a programmer. Most all of the people that write all this neg about Vista have no idea about what they are talking about. Vista is a good program and is superior to XP. If people take the time to update drivers and software that is normaly free they would have no problems. But they would rather grip. I run MANY Ham related programs and have updated and no problems. The one's that are not updated yet are being worked on by the software makers. The amount of work involved in a new OS is behond the comprihention of most all people. If you think this is wrong sit down right now and write a program that will play a simple card game. Now imagine what goes into a program as complex as Vista or XP. As far as he goverment goes they are happy with Vista as they are he one's who requested to have all the security features in the Vista. Do you really think Bill Gates makes a new OS and does not talk to them as for as what they want. Think people... No matter who makes a new program knows it will have bugs. They turn it lose on the public becouse instead of having just the Microsoft crew give reports they have the world. When people give reports on the OS they mke changes. Thats what a update is. If they did not do it this way we would all be using DOS. Would that not be fun. My suggestion for those that cant come of age is to devise and write the code for a program that is just for Ham programs. That will keep you busy for the next 5 years and that is if you can write code. So stop gripping and learn the program becouse XP will be gone in a few years and then a new OS will out and this will all start again. Lane, N7ZXP
RE: [digitalradio] Vista
The real problem is not the main part of Vista. The problem is that they did not make it backward compatible, especially for the sound interface. Everything else works fairly well. I am glad they came out with the Virtualization that allows programs that were not written to rules that were always there still work. Now as for the sound interface. I think that it is an abomination. It was a cave in to the RIAA and MPAA that brought us this. How many other devices have been broken up and virtualized to look like more than one? This is what is causes the biggest problem for programs that need both an input and an output. MMTTY, PsKCore, and I don't know how many others. I agree with you that we have to live with it and that XP will one day be gone. I am using and liking Vista for the most part but it is a real pain that the sound interface (In this case the API) was changed with no way to go back. I think that stinks. IBM would never get away with that. I worked there 25 years in OS and we never stuck a user with a new interface that did not preserve backward compatibility. OTOH people should realize some nice things they are getting. Number one is that Networking is a non issue for most with Vista. How much easier can it be than Start / Connect To USB is improved and works more reliably. The user interface is beautiful and faster. And on and on But until the sound issue is reslved by coders fixing their code or new coders writng replacements, it is going to be an issue for amateur radio digitsl prgrams. Gil, W0MN http://webpages.charter.net/gbaron N 44.082147 W 92.513085 1050' Hierro Candente, Batir de repente -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n7zxp Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:39 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Vista I have been sitting here reading all this things about Vista. Now lets go back to when XP was new. Everyone said and wrote all this stuff about XP. Before that it was Win98 and so on. I am heavy into the computer industry and a programmer. Most all of the people that write all this neg about Vista have no idea about what they are talking about. Vista is a good program and is superior to XP. If people take the time to update drivers and software that is normaly free they would have no problems. But they would rather grip. I run MANY Ham related programs and have updated and no problems. The one's that are not updated yet are being worked on by the software makers. The amount of work involved in a new OS is behond the comprihention of most all people. If you think this is wrong sit down right now and write a program that will play a simple card game. Now imagine what goes into a program as complex as Vista or XP. As far as he goverment goes they are happy with Vista as they are he one's who requested to have all the security features in the Vista. Do you really think Bill Gates makes a new OS and does not talk to them as for as what they want. Think people... No matter who makes a new program knows it will have bugs. They turn it lose on the public becouse instead of having just the Microsoft crew give reports they have the world. When people give reports on the OS they mke changes. Thats what a update is. If they did not do it this way we would all be using DOS. Would that not be fun. My suggestion for those that cant come of age is to devise and write the code for a program that is just for Ham programs. That will keep you busy for the next 5 years and that is if you can write code. So stop gripping and learn the program becouse XP will be gone in a few years and then a new OS will out and this will all start again. Lane, N7ZXP Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Check our other Yahoo Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
I have not found anything on the site you mentioned. The U.S. Government obviously will continue to internally support XP, which should be for many years, but they can not require MS to support it, when MS discontinues XP. It is possible that MS will voluntarily sell XP for government use, under the guise of national security even though it will not be available for the general public. The obvious danger to MS is that the U.S. government will follow other governments in selecting a Linux variant or mandating the use thereof. As you are probably aware, the U.S. military does use Linux for some purposes. But for all practical purposes, most buyers of new computers are buying Vista here in the U.S. A few who are not happy with Vista are buying Mac and an extremely small number are buying Linux. I have seen at least one customer at Best Buy who was very distraught last year and was told if they wanted to buy a computer from BB, they could either buy a Vista machine or order a Mac through mail order. (They must not be handling Macs anymore at that store). Linux software used to have a small presence at BB, but not for some time now as sales just were not adequate. This is probably due to the access through the internet, but it does lower the Linux presence to the public through the source that most consumers draw upon. To make statements that Vista is on its death bed is rather absurd. What might be possible is for MS to strip out the DRM and other bloatware and invasiveware. I absolutely don't see any indications that U.S. computer companies are going to discontinue installation of Vista on almost all new PC compatibles until a new replacement comes along. Although someone claimed that this could happen within a year, past history has shown that it is likely to be many years beyond what MS is claiming for a Windows 7 target date. Consider that something around 100,000,000 Vista machines have been sold so far. 73, Rick, KV9U AA0OI wrote: Hi Rick: The US government has now informed MS that they WILL continue to support XP as they will not be using VISTA ( see MaxiumPC) VISTA is now on its death bed..but no great loss.. WAY to many problems. Garrett / AA0OI
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Dell sells new dual-core PC's in your choice of Vista, XP, Ubuntu Linux or DOS. - Yes, I said DOS. Mine works just fine, no problems. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Hi My choice is linux ubuntu. I have found only two things I cannot do in linux. 1. Voice over IM 2. games. Since Iam not big on games not a big deal. I can purchase pc with no operating system from tiger direct and still use my old monitor for less. 73,s Nathan Watts KD5BLZ Charles Brabham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dell sells new dual-core PC's in your choice of Vista, XP, Ubuntu Linux or DOS. - Yes, I said DOS. Mine works just fine, no problems. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
HI word is from the forward looking computer mags that VISTA is now DEAD. The US government has refused to use it and it doesn't look like many more fixes are upcoming.. Instead they have moved up the release date of new OS ,, System 7 to 2009.. Vista was just like Mill was many years ago... BYE BYE VISTA ( and it 20% slower than XP.) Garrett / AA0OI - Original Message From: Charles Brabham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:23:51 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista Dell sells new dual-core PC's in your choice of Vista, XP, Ubuntu Linux or DOS. - Yes, I said DOS. Mine works just fine, no problems. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Hi Rick: The US government has now informed MS that they WILL continue to support XP as they will not be using VISTA ( see MaxiumPC) VISTA is now on its death bed..but no great loss.. WAY to many problems. Garrett / AA0OI - Original Message From: Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:36:33 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista Hi Eric, Although many companies are specifying Microsoft XP, I keep wondering what will happen in June when they are supposedly no longer going to make this available anymore. As it is they extended the OS sales. I have been using Vista for not quite a year and have not been running ham programs on it because I have an XP tower along with the Vista tower and a KVM switch to make it handy to work on either machine with the same keyboard, video, and mouse. Because of your post, I decided that tonight was the time to go ahead and switch over to the Vista box and see how current ham digital programs work. Generally, things seem OK with the programs that I normally run: Multipsk Ham Radio Deluxe/Digital Master 780 NBEMS suite with VBdigi/flarq/ flLogbook and can run the Sylpheed e-mail program recommended for this DXLabs suite with DX Commander (which does the interfacing to the rig with Multipsk), DXKeeper. Propview, DXView, etc. (not fully tested) Airlink Express - new program just released and targeted specifically for Vista but runs OK on XP Also, not fully tested but seem to work OK: QForms emergency messaging EasyPal for SSTV QWIKPSK Also can run my regular programs and some interesting ones: AVG Anti-Virus Open Office Suite of programs Media Monkey Irfanview Celestia and Stellarium for astronomy GIMP2 for graphics Firefox web browser Thunderbird e-mail As you can see, most of my general purpose programs are Open Source or at least freeware and when possible I use those that are available on Linux or Windows. I do have a dual boot to Linux Kubuntu, which is the first Linux variant that works reasonably well with my hardware. But I have not had many problems with most modern programs when using Vista. Dave Bernstein did discover a serious bug which may be fixed in SP1. However, Vista has plenty of problems with SP1 and some had trouble with it so they have backed off. Not sure if it is ready for prime time yet. Overall, Vista is a pretty face with superior font rendering when compared to XP and certainly much better than any of the Linux variants that just can not yet compete on my equipment (22 Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD Monitor). But it simply does not offer much else, other than some security improvements, some of which are too extreme and quite unnecessary and annoying. Some call this program Windows ME2. I won't go that far, as unlike ME, which was truly unstable, Vista is quite stable and solid for the average user. Like when was the last time you had a BSOD? I have not had one for many years, pretty much not since XP. (Can't say that about Linux which can crash the X windows pretty easily with a bug in PSKmail:( Vista is VERY easy to reload. I actually dumped Vista last year and attempted to install Ubuntu Linux but it was just not an adequate OS and of course can not run most of the high quality ham programs so it is just not practical to use. So I was pretty concerned when I was forced to reload Vista and surprisingly it was the easiest modern OS that I have reloaded from scratch. All the drivers were present on the reinstall disks you have to make up in advance. This is for an HP Pavilion a1730n which is a 4400+ AMD chip and 2 Gigs of RAM. Also, when I bought a low cost USB COM adapter, the driver was already in Vista while XP required installation of the drivers from a disk. This may be at least a part of why Vista is a very bloated OS. Even some of the MS top programmers have admitted it needs trimming. Thus, it needs tremendous resources to run moderately fast. That means the fastest possible microprocessor, video, and at least 2 Gig RAM. MS is running scared on this because sales are terrible. The only way it would have been adopted is due to it being forced on the users when they buy the computer. But note that Mac sales are drastically higher and even Linux is getting some traction here in the developed world. MS is already talking about Windows 7, which is the replacement for Vista. Can you imagine that? And that OS is years away by MS's reckoning, thus it will probably be many years past that date! Bottom line though: you are going to find it very difficult to buy anything here in the U.S. other than a Vista machine for a MS OS. It don't see Mac and Linux as being alternatives if you want to run MS Windows software as we digital hams want to do since that is the OS that has the best programs at this time. In some cases, the only software in certain categories. 73, Rick, KV9U wa0elm wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
It appears your opinion is shared by others:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8541837412.html?kc=EWKNLNAV032408STR4
An excerpt:
For the first time in ages, thesale of new PCs with Windows as a percentage of
the PC market isdeclining sharply. The new winner is the Mac, but, while no one
does agood job of tracking the still-new, pre-installed Linux desktop
market,it's also clear that Linux is finally making impressive inroads
intoWindows' once unchallenged market share.
- Original Message
From: AA0OI [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:53:50 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista
HI
word is from the forward looking computer mags that VISTA is now DEAD. The US
government has refused to use it and it doesn't look like many more fixes are
upcoming.. Instead they have moved up the release date of new OS ,, System 7
to 2009.. Vista was just like Mill was many years ago... BYE BYE VISTA ( and it
20% slower than XP.)
Garrett / AA0OI
- Original Message
From: Charles Brabham [EMAIL PROTECTED] org
To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:23:51 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Dell sells new dual-core PC's in your choice of Vista, XP, Ubuntu Linux or
DOS. - Yes, I said DOS.
Mine works just fine, no problems.
73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding:0 0;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color:#ff;text-decoration:none;}
--
!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family:Arial;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
--
!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family:Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family:Arial;
clear:both;}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding:0 1px;}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float:left;white-space:nowrap;}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;
padding:5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;}
#reco-grpname{
font-weight:bold;margin-top:10px;}
#reco-category{
font-size:77%;}
#reco-desc{
font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding:0;margin:2px 0;}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration:underline;}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color:#999;font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding:8px 0;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration:underline;}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin:0;}
o{font-size:0;}
.MsoNormal{
margin:0 0 0 0;}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size:120%;}
blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4;}
--
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Look for products marketed to businesses. HP loads XP on workstations like the xw4400 but puts Vista on products for home use. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: wa0elm To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 22:28 UTC Subject: [digitalradio] Vista I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM
[digitalradio] Vista
I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
You can order a Dell with either XP or Vista. At 05:28 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM
RE: [digitalradio] Vista
Though web sites and sales reps may tell you otherwise, XP is available. If purchasing via a web site, use the small business section rather than the home section; if dealing with a rep, make it clear that your purchase is conditional on XP. The Operating System availability shown on Lenovo's high-level laptop page shows XP being available for all four product lines: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/na/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalo g.workflow:expandcategory?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C08 7current-category-id=8FA114A7D9FF4F38AE8E19B36EC665A7 Click on one of these, and the family is described with Vista as the default choice. Click the Customize button, and you can have XP for an additional $22. Vista's adoption rate in the world of business is less than 5%. Companies are not taking delivery of Vista machines and loading XP. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of wa0elm Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:28 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Vista I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Eric, Buy a Mac and load XP on it if you wish and have the best of both worlds. What the heck, put Ubuntu Hardy Heron on it too and then maybe you won't even want windoze. Darrel On 24-Mar-08, at 3:28 PM, wa0elm wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
That is what I did when the opportunity came up to get a new laptop but loaded with VISTA. Wiped it totally and loaded XP w/2. Works great. Have found nothing so far that it would not do. Les At 03:28 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM
[digitalradio] Vista another view
Hi all, Just to add another twist to the comments, I am now running all my ham programs digital and otherwise on Vista machines, using both Vista Ultimate and Vista business, all with SP1. Which by the way went in perfectly. I regularly use WSJT on EME, Nova, Internet access, Atomtime, VQlog all running at the same time on one machine, on another machine HRD/DM780 or Mixw with an SDR1000 while using VAC and VCom. By the way these computers are all dual core machines with good ram capacity. I now find Vista easier to drive than XP.. Regards to all Ross ZL1WN ps the only program that I cannot get going and it will probably be a VAC problem is the latest GUI version of WSPR. I dont think Joe has set up the audio port function in WSPR as well as he has in the EME WSJT.
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Hi Eric...we have the same problem here in VKwhen you buy a computer you have to take the o/s that they want to load..if you try and buy one without an o/s you get told in no uncertian terms you cant.i have looked into the consumer protection regulations and found that it may be illegal to force you to buy what you dont wantapparently there must be choice.try telling that to a salesman or a store manageryou get pointed to the door..if i bought a new PC or Laptop i want it with out an o/s as i would want to load Linux and if you tell the salesperson that you get a lot of sales tripe that is usually not true but is fed to them via the Gates propaganda machine...you may find a store where a salesperson has tried or uses Linux and you then get a better hearing but you still may not able to buy what you want. check the consumer regs in your State or Country before you go and buy 73 David VK4BDJ wa0elm wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance before I pull out what's left of my hair. Thanks in advance, Eric WA0ELM
Re: [digitalradio] Vista
Hi Eric, Although many companies are specifying Microsoft XP, I keep wondering what will happen in June when they are supposedly no longer going to make this available anymore. As it is they extended the OS sales. I have been using Vista for not quite a year and have not been running ham programs on it because I have an XP tower along with the Vista tower and a KVM switch to make it handy to work on either machine with the same keyboard, video, and mouse. Because of your post, I decided that tonight was the time to go ahead and switch over to the Vista box and see how current ham digital programs work. Generally, things seem OK with the programs that I normally run: Multipsk Ham Radio Deluxe/Digital Master 780 NBEMS suite with VBdigi/flarq/flLogbook and can run the Sylpheed e-mail program recommended for this DXLabs suite with DX Commander (which does the interfacing to the rig with Multipsk), DXKeeper. Propview, DXView, etc. (not fully tested) Airlink Express - new program just released and targeted specifically for Vista but runs OK on XP Also, not fully tested but seem to work OK: QForms emergency messaging EasyPal for SSTV QWIKPSK Also can run my regular programs and some interesting ones: AVG Anti-Virus Open Office Suite of programs Media Monkey Irfanview Celestia and Stellarium for astronomy GIMP2 for graphics Firefox web browser Thunderbird e-mail As you can see, most of my general purpose programs are Open Source or at least freeware and when possible I use those that are available on Linux or Windows. I do have a dual boot to Linux Kubuntu, which is the first Linux variant that works reasonably well with my hardware. But I have not had many problems with most modern programs when using Vista. Dave Bernstein did discover a serious bug which may be fixed in SP1. However, Vista has plenty of problems with SP1 and some had trouble with it so they have backed off. Not sure if it is ready for prime time yet. Overall, Vista is a pretty face with superior font rendering when compared to XP and certainly much better than any of the Linux variants that just can not yet compete on my equipment (22 Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD Monitor). But it simply does not offer much else, other than some security improvements, some of which are too extreme and quite unnecessary and annoying. Some call this program Windows ME2. I won't go that far, as unlike ME, which was truly unstable, Vista is quite stable and solid for the average user. Like when was the last time you had a BSOD? I have not had one for many years, pretty much not since XP. (Can't say that about Linux which can crash the X windows pretty easily with a bug in PSKmail:( Vista is VERY easy to reload. I actually dumped Vista last year and attempted to install Ubuntu Linux but it was just not an adequate OS and of course can not run most of the high quality ham programs so it is just not practical to use. So I was pretty concerned when I was forced to reload Vista and surprisingly it was the easiest modern OS that I have reloaded from scratch. All the drivers were present on the reinstall disks you have to make up in advance. This is for an HP Pavilion a1730n which is a 4400+ AMD chip and 2 Gigs of RAM. Also, when I bought a low cost USB COM adapter, the driver was already in Vista while XP required installation of the drivers from a disk. This may be at least a part of why Vista is a very bloated OS. Even some of the MS top programmers have admitted it needs trimming. Thus, it needs tremendous resources to run moderately fast. That means the fastest possible microprocessor, video, and at least 2 Gig RAM. MS is running scared on this because sales are terrible. The only way it would have been adopted is due to it being forced on the users when they buy the computer. But note that Mac sales are drastically higher and even Linux is getting some traction here in the developed world. MS is already talking about Windows 7, which is the replacement for Vista. Can you imagine that? And that OS is years away by MS's reckoning, thus it will probably be many years past that date! Bottom line though: you are going to find it very difficult to buy anything here in the U.S. other than a Vista machine for a MS OS. It don't see Mac and Linux as being alternatives if you want to run MS Windows software as we digital hams want to do since that is the OS that has the best programs at this time. In some cases, the only software in certain categories. 73, Rick, KV9U wa0elm wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a new laptop, and I can't find anything that doesn't come with Vista. Is anyone having success running digital software (e.g. MultiPSK and/or MMTTY) with Vista? Last I heard, most digital software doesn't play nice with it. I thought about buying a Vista machine, and loading XP, but the problem I've found is that some drivers may not be available for XP. I'd like to get a little guidance
[digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info
Navigating can be such a pain when going from xp to vista. Both worlds have there plus and minus properties and I am not advocating or bashing either. Just happen to use em and other operating systems, and I am glad to share that experience. In Vista and using the default Vista Control Panel: === To Manage / View your System Hardware so you can see what your com ports are: Control Panel Additional Options Device Manager View hardware and devices Now you will have the Device Manager panel and will see a com port selection 'if' you have any com ports active. Open the com port icon and plug in and unplug your Rigblaster Plug Play. You will see the com port and info come and go with that activity. (Please note: the usb ports on your laptop will have a com port number assigned to them in Vista that will not match with the same com port number if that same laptop boots with xp. I have a dual boot xp/vista so was surprised to see that ...hi hi) Don forget you can change com port properties including com port assigned number if you want to. === In Vista and using the default Vista Control Panel: To Manage your Sound Options navigate the following - Control Panel Additional Options Hardware and Sound Sound Icon Gives you access to all your sound options. Under 'Change system sounds' you will find under the Recording tab the Microphone Icon. Double click that Icon and you will have the Microphone Properties panel. Under custom you can enable / disable Microphone Boost (I havent had to do that on my two vista laptops, they are enabled) Of course Levels tab lets you set the Microphone volume level. Or: Choose Classic View in the Control Panel, and you will have the XP control panel icons you might be more comfortable navigating around with. Dont forget to have the Rigblaster Plug Play drivers installed for Vista. 73 from Bill - WD8ARZ HFN Pilot Station for ALE http://hflink.net/qso/ - Original Message - From: k5rud To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 12:21 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: NBEMS HF testing frequency suggestion I had a number of problems with the system. It booted fine. I got both programs running. I have a Rigblaster Plug Play which is a USB serial port. I could not determine what serial port that would be to setup the C-IV for my Icom. I needed that for PTT. I also tried to follow the directions for setting up their rig control but (1) where is $HOME/.something? I opened the file viewer, clicked home but saw nothing that looked like that directory. I could see no input. This is a laptop and I only have mike input. I could generate output from the sound card so I think the sound card was found okay. I decided to pass on this for right now and switch back to Windows. This is the first use of the Rigblaster since I got arrived on Wednesday. It is working under Vista using DM780 and HRD. It is neat using the C-IV to control the rig! The only hassle is that the mike input is to hot so overdrives the sound card. Guess I need to put a pot to allow adjusting it. Since this is my first digital experience I do not know what signals I am hearing to select the digital mode. I did listen to a PSK-31 QSO. But while I can hear and see other signals I cannot get them to decode. Rud K5RUD
RE: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info
Bill, Thanks for that information. I am floundering a bit with Vista on my laptop so any help is beneficial. As a developer I usually can twist my head around the other developers way of thinking - eventually. I will admit that Linux and Vista are challenging me in this regard. I hate to think I may be turning into a certified old fart. g I would clarify that the main issues in my message were about a live distro of Linux with ham software. I have since received an email direct from the authors with some guidance. It may be a couple days before I can try that software again. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net http://thehamnetwork.net/ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WD8ARZ Comcast Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 9:34 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info Navigating can be such a pain when going from xp to vista. Both worlds have there plus and minus properties and I am not advocating or bashing either. Just happen to use em and other operating systems, and I am glad to share that experience.
Re: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info
I am a bit surprised at the comments about Vista vs. XP. I have two computers in my shack that are side by side with a KVM switch so I can access either of them from my main control point. I mostly use XP for backward compatibility since all amateur radio programs that I use will run on XP without crashing or having any incompatibilities. I run XP because almost all new computers here in the U.S. come with Vista. In fact, I overheard a conversation at a BestBuy store where the customer (an elderly woman obviously fearful of incompatibility issues) wanted XP rather than Vista but the clerk said they no longer had any machines that they could get with XP. He recommended they look at their web site and consider switching to MAC if she did not want to go with Vista. I wonder if she realized what that meant in terms of incompatibility:( Vista is pretty much XP with some window dressing and increased security, and unfortunately some decreased practical use for the end user due to the DRM issues. However, that does not affect amateur radio programs. Thus far I have been repeatedly surprised how well Vista works after hearing all the horror stories about how bad it would be. It runs most of the ham software that I use (DX Lab suite of programs, Multipsk, Ham Radio Deluxe with the Digital Master 780 digital program), and runs any of my normal programs which are primarily FLOSS (Free/Libre/Open Source Software) which include the Open Office suite, Thunderbird e-mail. Firefox browser, MediaMonkey library/catalog/player system that can handle open standards such as FLAC and of course ogg vorbis, Google Earth, Adobe Reader, and AVG Anti Virus. Some exceptions might be the virtual stuff, but after trying some of that with XP, I have decided it is probably not going to work for me anyway. 73, Rick, KV9U WD8ARZ Comcast wrote: Navigating can be such a pain when going from xp to vista. Both worlds have there plus and minus properties and I am not advocating or bashing either. Just happen to use em and other operating systems, and I am glad to share that experience.
RE: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info
As a software developer I push into nooks and crannies of an operating system. Microsoft tightened access to some of those places making it more difficult for me. Sometimes I am challenged to even find where to change the settings. I certainly do not mean to say Vista is bad. Right now I have something strange going on with the microphone input on my laptop. Sometimes the digital software accesses the microphone fine. Other times it does not. I have not pursued it in depth but I cannot get MultiPSK to access that input at all. DM780 connects to the input properly about 80% of the time. When it does not work I have to go through 3 dialogs to reactivate the input. There is probably some way to go there directly but I have not determined how. Probably even a setting that would eliminate the need entirely. Then again, it may be that the laptop itself is doing something flakey and it has nothing to do with Vista. g Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 4:02 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info I am a bit surprised at the comments about Vista vs. XP. 73, Rick, KV9U
RE: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info
Originally, Microsoft stated that XP could not be shipped on new PCs after January 2008. In an acknowledgement of Vista's difficulties, Microsoft recently extended this by another 6 months. Most new desktops and laptops can ordered with XP, though you may have to ask for this option. DXLab applications only run on Vista because I tracked down an egregious defect in the Vista runtimes, got some friends in the Visual Studio team to confirm it, and then added a workaround to all eight applications in the Suite. Personally, I would not consider putting serious weight on Vista until we've had a chance to evaluate SP1. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 5:02 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info I am a bit surprised at the comments about Vista vs. XP. I have two computers in my shack that are side by side with a KVM switch so I can access either of them from my main control point. I mostly use XP for backward compatibility since all amateur radio programs that I use will run on XP without crashing or having any incompatibilities. I run XP because almost all new computers here in the U.S. come with Vista. In fact, I overheard a conversation at a BestBuy store where the customer (an elderly woman obviously fearful of incompatibility issues) wanted XP rather than Vista but the clerk said they no longer had any machines that they could get with XP. He recommended they look at their web site and consider switching to MAC if she did not want to go with Vista. I wonder if she realized what that meant in terms of incompatibility:( Vista is pretty much XP with some window dressing and increased security, and unfortunately some decreased practical use for the end user due to the DRM issues. However, that does not affect amateur radio programs. Thus far I have been repeatedly surprised how well Vista works after hearing all the horror stories about how bad it would be. It runs most of the ham software that I use (DX Lab suite of programs, Multipsk, Ham Radio Deluxe with the Digital Master 780 digital program), and runs any of my normal programs which are primarily FLOSS (Free/Libre/Open Source Software) which include the Open Office suite, Thunderbird e-mail. Firefox browser, MediaMonkey library/catalog/player system that can handle open standards such as FLAC and of course ogg vorbis, Google Earth, Adobe Reader, and AVG Anti Virus. Some exceptions might be the virtual stuff, but after trying some of that with XP, I have decided it is probably not going to work for me anyway. 73, Rick, KV9U WD8ARZ Comcast wrote: Navigating can be such a pain when going from xp to vista. Both worlds have there plus and minus properties and I am not advocating or bashing either. Just happen to use em and other operating systems, and I am glad to share that experience.
RE: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info
My first post in this group! --Rick is dead on IMHO. They are essentially the same with some distinct differences but I hope we dont go through the 98 vs ME vs XP debates/wars again people hate change and Microsoft doesnt hate you and want to destroy your life by downgrading every edition of their next operating system they spent years and billions of dollars to develop. The important distinction is 32 bit version vs the 64 bit -- on the 64 bit side the driver support is really lagging, so I would stick with the 32 bit because of the backward compatibility of drivers and speaking of backwards it is ALWAYS the ham radio stuff that has problems with the next gen op sys Longhorn the beta version of Vista, has been available to developers for over 2 ½ years so they could develop their software and drivers and have them all ready for vista release . People on the commercial side with bucks to bet on took the hint and got ready. But enough of that what I have done, is something interesting that some folks might try download the FREE copy of virtual PC 2007 from Microsoft. Run XP AND VISTA AND LINUX all at the same time on the same computer and any variation thereof. Its very easy to set up , and it is fun. Y ou can have an xp window, and vista window open just like app windows. If you have the inclination or time play with that I did because I had a bunch of Edgport (now digi) USB to serial converter boxes for my radios and they wouldnt release a vista driver for ever (they now do). So I first decided to keep the computer at XP , then said to hell with it, and put in virtual 2007 . I tried VMWare also it works just about the same -- - either way, virtual computing is the nex-gen technology- might as well get used to it, and sigh when everyone else is forced to. It really is incredibly easy to install, and use and it is free and you can have your cake and eat it too - - have XP and Vista (and unix) -- running on the same computer they are just different vitrual machines that run in their own windows. Cheers From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 5:02 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Vista Digital System Navigation for Hardware Setting and Info I am a bit surprised at the comments about Vista vs. XP. I have two computers in my shack that are side by side with a KVM switch so I can access either of them from my main control point. I mostly use XP for backward compatibility since all amateur radio programs that I use will run on XP without crashing or having any incompatibilities. I run XP because almost all new computers here in the U.S. come with Vista. In fact, I overheard a conversation at a BestBuy store where the customer (an elderly woman obviously fearful of incompatibility issues) wanted XP rather than Vista but the clerk said they no longer had any machines that they could get with XP. He recommended they look at their web site and consider switching to MAC if she did not want to go with Vista. I wonder if she realized what that meant in terms of incompatibility:( Vista is pretty much XP with some window dressing and increased security, and unfortunately some decreased practical use for the end user due to the DRM issues. However, that does not affect amateur radio programs. Thus far I have been repeatedly surprised how well Vista works after hearing all the horror stories about how bad it would be. It runs most of the ham software that I use (DX Lab suite of programs, Multipsk, Ham Radio Deluxe with the Digital Master 780 digital program), and runs any of my normal programs which are primarily FLOSS (Free/Libre/Open Source Software) which include the Open Office suite, Thunderbird e-mail. Firefox browser, MediaMonkey library/catalog/player system that can handle open standards such as FLAC and of course ogg vorbis, Google Earth, Adobe Reader, and AVG Anti Virus. Some exceptions might be the virtual stuff, but after trying some of that with XP, I have decided it is probably not going to work for me anyway. 73, Rick, KV9U WD8ARZ Comcast wrote: Navigating can be such a pain when going from xp to vista. Both worlds have there plus and minus properties and I am not advocating or bashing either. Just happen to use em and other operating systems, and I am glad to share that experience.
[digitalradio] VISTA and PSK
Hello all This is my first post here because now I have a problem. My wife got me a new laptop with, of course Vista installed. None of the PSK software I have tried and used on my old 2000 system will work because they can't find the sound card. Any solution? Any PSK/RTTY software already Vista compatable? Thanks for any help. Jerry KT5TT
Re: [digitalradio] VISTA and PSK
Jerry, Multipsk has been updated to look for either the old sound driver for XP or the new one for Vista. I have not found any other problems working under Vista. Dave Bernstein's DX Commander program works under Vista and can control Multipsk with most rigs. I have my ICOM running under CI-V control, including PTT. There is no other program available that can do what Multipsk can do at this time, so it may be a good choice for you if you like the newer technology. I was not too happy with Vista at first, but I am warming up to it a bit more. Especially, since I have not been able to run Linux well enough on my wide resolution Samsung LCD monitor to be of practical use at this time. So I have been concentrating more on Vista and I have to admit that MS is finally getting things right with some pretty strong security, including DEP (Data Execution Prevention). They do not dare turn on all the security features since that will break too many programs, but we can expect a further move in the security direction over the next few years. DEP is a bit spooky when you try to do things that used to be routine and now the program not only warns you, but causes the display to drastically dim and alert you to something that you need to pay close attention to. Kind of hard to miss:) 73, Rick, KV9U jerloch wrote: Hello all This is my first post here because now I have a problem. My wife got me a new laptop with, of course Vista installed. None of the PSK software I have tried and used on my old 2000 system will work because they can't find the sound card. Any solution? Any PSK/RTTY software already Vista compatable? Thanks for any help. Jerry KT5TT
Re: [digitalradio] VISTA and PSK
Consider the Tigertronics SignaLink USB - it's an external soundcard and interface in one package, I *think* it supports VISTA, you could always ask Tigertronics. It'll probably be much better that your lappy's infernal soundcard. Simon Brown, HB9DRV - Original Message - From: jerloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all This is my first post here because now I have a problem. My wife got me a new laptop with, of course Vista installed. None of the PSK software I have tried and used on my old 2000 system will work because they can't find the sound card. Any solution? Any PSK/RTTY software already Vista compatable? Thanks for any help.
RE: [digitalradio] VISTA and PSK
that MS is finally getting things right with some pretty strong security, including DEP (Data Execution Prevention). Not to nit-pick, but for the sake of clarity: Data Execution Prevention isn't a Vista feature. It was introduced in Windows XP (SP2, I think). The reason more people don't see it is it requires a CPU that supports the No-Execute page protection bit. And now... back to discussing the FCC and Winlink, de Peter K1PGV
Re: [digitalradio] VISTA and PSK
My understanding is that people who are using Vista have been able to load and use the DXLab suite of programs quite nicely. WinWarbler , the communications program, along with Commander for CAT control, and DXKeeper, for logging, are very nice, and FREE. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: jerloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [digitalradio] VISTA and PSK Hello all This is my first post here because now I have a problem. My wife got me a new laptop with, of course Vista installed. None of the PSK software I have tried and used on my old 2000 system will work because they can't find the sound card. Any solution? Any PSK/RTTY software already Vista compatable? Thanks for any help. Jerry KT5TT Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.23/740 - Release Date: 3/30/2007 1:15 PM
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
7. While Microsoft made a passing attempt at retrofitting security into its early operating systems, they didn't get any money for this. So, we should be extremely grateful that they actually fixed security problems for 8 years for Windows 98. Other companies would not support any software for that length of time. Thanks Jim for what is, to me, the most intelligent post related to operating systems that I've seen on this list. Except that it is not entirely accurate. Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix as did BSD. Unix is very old. MS *chose* to not implement security due to profit considerations and the impossbility of security because of the wide-open-everything-executes-in-root structure. It was a marketing and technological nightmare -- I remember it well as a systems manager and consultant. extremely grateful? You have to be kidding! Bill Gates marketed and promoted secure and stable and while he raked in billions he shipped insecure and unstable. How soon we forget. It would be enlightening to read a list of what is worth doing, for 99% of average users, that is not available free under Linux. OS = Free Office apps = Free Internet apps = Free Music processing = Free Video processing = Free Games = Free And to get this back on topic ... Ham digital apps = Free Ham antenna calculators = Free Ham logging = Free Ham DX spotting = Free Ham HT programming apps = Free Now I donate to many Linux developers because I want to support them. It is not about Free to me, it is about choice and integrity and freedom from abusive OS contracts and limitations. Back to digital radio. -- Thanks! 73, doc, KD4E ~~ Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com Personal: http://bibleseven.com ~~
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
- Original Message - From: kd4e [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix as did BSD. Unix is very old. No way matey - I have used UNIX distributions where the username / password was stored in plain text. I refer to Ultrix in the mid to late 1980's. UNIX may be secure now, but in early days it was anything but secure. By contrast VMS was far ahead, as were the IBM offerings. Windows NT / 2K etc. is derived from VMS. Simon Brown, HB9DRV (GD4ELI March 2nd - 12th 2006)
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
Like most things, both posters reflect truth as they see it. Perhaps the same for me:) Microsoft happened to be in the right place at the right time to buy an OS from a third party to allow IBM 808x chips to at least work at a rudimentary level. Cassette tape loading, that sort of thing at first. I give them credit for making a usable OS that tried to remain backward compatible. Microsoft made almost every decison in the most practical manner possible. What does the customer want and how can we do it for a super competitive price? Unix developers were perhaps the greediest, if you want to use that prejorative term, since they kept the price of their OS at an insane level (typically $1000) while MS sold theirs to OEM's for maybe $40 and retail for a relative modest amount. But that was 25+ years ago. Today, Linux and the entire FOSS movement have moved the entire world in a new direction, and will continue to do so at what is now appearing to be an accelerating pace toward free and libre software. Especially in developing countries. It appears that Vista will ironically accelerate that trend. Partly because it requires a very, very, high end computer to even run moderately well, and partly due to DRM issues and copyright protection. For many of us, myself included, we have the best of both worlds. We can get commercial software on Windows if we have to have it, but we can get most of the better FOSS software as well. Many of us are moving as much as we can to FOSS. For a year or two my wife and I have moved to Open Office, Firefox browser, etc. I also have the Windows versions of Audacity, GIMP, Picasa, VLC media player, XnView, and all of my ham radio programs, most of which are not available on Linux OS, e.g., the DX Lab suite of programs, Multipsk, WinDRM and Hampal, WSJT, N1MM logger, ICOM Memory Edit, Ham Radio Deluxe. And with MS OS I can use my peripherals, such as my new 22 widescreen Samsung that no Linux OS seems able to run at 1600 x 1050 native mode at this time as a Live version. But long term, Linux is clearly going to be the right choice for most people in the world due to its stability, power, incredible resources from many more programmers now and drastically more programmers in the future. The MS/Novell Linux arrangement was probably one of the sea change shifts in the ripples of time that we will look back upon someday. And now MS is going to be at the Asian Linux Conference. What is the world coming to:) 73, Rick, KV9U kd4e wrote: 7. While Microsoft made a passing attempt at retrofitting security into its early operating systems, they didn't get any money for this. So, we should be extremely grateful that they actually fixed security problems for 8 years for Windows 98. Other companies would not support any software for that length of time. Thanks Jim for what is, to me, the most intelligent post related to operating systems that I've seen on this list. Except that it is not entirely accurate. Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix as did BSD. Unix is very old. MS *chose* to not implement security due to profit considerations and the impossbility of security because of the wide-open-everything-executes-in-root structure. It was a marketing and technological nightmare -- I remember it well as a systems manager and consultant. extremely grateful? You have to be kidding! Bill Gates marketed and promoted secure and stable and while he raked in billions he shipped insecure and unstable. How soon we forget. It would be enlightening to read a list of what is worth doing, for 99% of average users, that is not available free under Linux. OS = Free Office apps = Free Internet apps = Free Music processing = Free Video processing = Free Games = Free And to get this back on topic ... Ham digital apps = Free Ham antenna calculators = Free Ham logging = Free Ham DX spotting = Free Ham HT programming apps = Free Now I donate to many Linux developers because I want to support them. It is not about Free to me, it is about choice and integrity and freedom from abusive OS contracts and limitations. Back to digital radio.
RE: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix as did BSD. Unix is very old. I don't know what you're background in the computer field is, and I don't mean to turn this into a resume review, but I've been writing operating systems and OS-level components since, oh, 1978. Your statement that Unix was *always* secure is *entirely* inaccurate. First, let me very clearly state my comments are restricted to commercial operating systems -- not special purpose military operating systems. Next, I can categorically state that *no* commercial operating system written in the 70's or 80's was secure as we mean the term today. When we wrote operating systems code back then, we didn't fully appreciate threats such as elevation of privilege, buffer overflows, or code-injection (to name a few and to keep things simple). We never even considered the possibility that some kid in his bedroom in would spend DAYS sending every undocumented system service code to the OS, or every possible I/O Function Code to every driver, just to see what it did to the system. This was largely because, back then, we could never anticipate some kid in his bedroom having access to a computer (Heck,*I* didn't even have a computer *terminal* in my office back then). Cuz, back then, the smallest computer was as big as your refrigerator and cost $200K (in 1978 dollars). I can tell you with absolute certainty that -- back in the day -- even code written for *highly* secure and sensitive defense department systems (NOTE: THAT ARE NO LONGER IN USE) was written in such a way that it would not pass even the most trivial level of threat analysis that is routinely performed on almost ANY commercial code today. In this way, Unix was *never* any more secure than any other OS written during that time. I was there. I've read the code and I was one of the people who WROTE the code (mostly device drivers) that ran as part of these operating systems. MS *chose* to not implement security due to profit considerations and the impossbility of security because of the wide-open-everything-executes-in-root structure. It was a marketing and technological nightmare -- I remember it well as a systems manager and consultant. Here are you referring to a different level of security. The questions of (a) what protections does the OS provide, (b) what privs are required to do things question, and (3) what are the default account settings on a system. In the context of what protections are available and privs are required, Unix-based systems have a rather coarse-grained security structure, whereas Windows-based systems stemming from the Windows NT tree (thus, starting with Windows 2000) have always had a rather fine-grained security structure. Consider that it's possible to grant or withhold individual privileges to individual Windows users. Further, consider the security capabilities of the NTFS file system where you can grant or withhold to a single, specific, user the privilege to access a specific file in a specific way. So, for a simple example, I could set the security on a file that says UserX can READ the file but not write it and when they do, I want an audit event written that says when they read it. Again, by the measurement of what security policies and protections are AVAILBLE, Unix-based systems including Linux are NOT more inherently secure than any Windows based on Windows NT (which was introduced in 1993 and is the basis for Windows 2000, XP, and Vista). In terms of DEFAULT security policies: YES. Windows DEFAULT security policies have been open. By DEFAULT most home users have been granted administrative access to their systems. This allows them to install drivers, update the O/S, and do similar things without having to logout of their user account and log back in as an administrator. In retrospect, this was probably a bad idea. Well, perhaps a VERY bad idea. The prevailing thinking at Microsoft for years was we want just about everything to be do-able by a user without having to login and logout and we want defaults for things setup so everything just works. This approach made sense back in the days when it was first taken... When the world was a safer place and the internet (didn't exist or certainly) wasn't nearly so prevalent. The world has changed over the past few years and so has the policy at Microsoft. The policy is now secure by default even if it breaks stuff. In retrospect, did Unix-derived systems make a better choice? They made a more secure choice, certainly, not having users run with root privs by default and making folks authenticate to gain such privs. From our vantage point in 2007, this was clearly a better choice. Now I donate to many Linux developers because I want to support them. It is not about Free to me, it is about choice and integrity and freedom from abusive OS contracts and limitations. That's good! In fact that's GREAT! Linux is a good and useful alternative -- as is OS/X -- for
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
Peter G. Viscarola wrote: Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix as did BSD. Unix is very old. I don't know what you're background in the computer field is, and I don't mean to turn this into a resume review, but I've been writing operating systems and OS-level components since, oh, 1978. Your statement that Unix was *always* secure is *entirely* inaccurate. OK, post-stone age Unix was written with meaningful user-level security years before MS even comprehended the concept of security and long before MS was forced by users to begin the implementation of semi-meaningful security. When common-use folks discuss security it is relative to the ease of access to data without the need for a password, the ease of access to someone else's computer bypassing their security, and ease with which crackers access and sabotage someone else's computer. MS has *always* lagged behind Unix, Linux, BSD, and Apple in this area. Always. MS propaganda aside. It is one thing to claim to have a secure OS, it is another thing entirely to produce one that works. NT/2000 was a desperate attempt by MS to stem the bleeding because everyone else's OS's were less vulnerable and it was at-best embarassing, at worse was harming them at server level sales. My first use of computers was at Northeastern University in the late 70's. I have worked with Apple, DEC MicroVax, Linux, MS, and Wang. MS was always been functionally the most poorly secured. I am shocked that anyone is surprised, it has been common knowledge for years, even MS has been caught using Linux for the online distribution of their security updates. A very quick search via http://clusty.com found the discussion below, it is one of hundreds that document the reality of UNix/Linux security vs MS's chronically weak security: http://www.celestial.com/Members/bill/Presentations/unix_osx/x65.html --- Since many people used each machine, security was an issue in Unix from its very beginnings as the work of each person had to be protected, and, being the phone company, they were often the targets of early crackers (aka Phone Phreaks). Thus Unix was designed to operate in a hostile network environment, and has had a strong security model designed in from the beginning. This may be compared to Microsoft DOS and Windows which are based on a primitive program loader, designed to allow hobbyists to use their new microcomputers in a single-user, non-networked environment. There was only one user on the system, and no notion of user ownership or security. Any user on the system can read, write, or delete anything on the machine. Programmers who wrote Unix, have always had to deal with multiple users, and multi-tasking systems so (with some exceptions) build systems with security and sharing constantly in mind. --- -- Thanks! 73, doc, KD4E ~~ Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com Personal: http://bibleseven.com ~~
RE: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
MS has *always* lagged behind Unix, Linux, BSD, and Apple in this area. Always. MS propaganda aside. ... NT/2000 was a desperate attempt by MS to stem the bleeding because everyone else's OS's were less vulnerable and it was at-best embarassing, at worse was harming them at server level sales. With all due respect, the above is simply mis-informed. I'm afraid you simply don't know what you don't know and apparently aren't willing to listen to somebody who actually DOES know -- who's been there and done that. I *know* it's tempting to blame Microsoft, because they've done some truly hideous things to gain and hold market share. But the security debate isn't simple enough to be about propaganda -- It's about history, and the evolution of the PC. And, again... I can TELL you how it is, cuz I was there and I've *read* the code of the operating systems we're discussing. I'm out of this conversation, de Peter K1PGV
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
But the security debate isn't simple enough to be about propaganda -- It's about history, and the evolution of the PC. And, again... I can TELL you how it is, cuz I was there and I've *read* the code of the operating systems we're discussing. I'm out of this conversation, de Peter K1PGV So fellow list member Frank is wrong: The point is that it is nearly impossible to make the XP design secure without winding up with something like Vista. It's a fundamental flaw. The same is not true of the Unix fundamental design, where insecurities come from sloppiness, and are fixed incrementally as they are discovered. And Bill, whose web site I linked: Celestial Software, founded in 1984 by Bill Campbell, has been a leader in business and Internet solutions. Celestial had the first commercial web site in Washington State, and set up the first Real Estate web site in Washington in June 1996. When we acquired MS PC's at one government site one of our favorite gags was to break into one another's PC's to leave messages and joke code like the washing machine cycle. It was easy, too easy. And, of course, I am wrong even though I have used these systems in business, government, and personal contexts and have *experienced* what I have testified to. Odd, very odd. Guess we will have to agree to disagree, without being disagreeable! :-) Well, back to digital modes, you on MS and me on Linux - each seeking to communicate text and images in creative ways. -- Thanks! 73, doc, KD4E ~~ Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com Personal: http://bibleseven.com ~~
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
I have not followed the whole thread but I wouldn't be too sure to believe that Windows flaws exist per se and are not a result of agreements with somebody else, as some conspiracy theories state. Just in case, it is safer to use a third party firewall, or run a bastillized *n?x. Jose, CO2JA --- kd4e wrote: 7. While Microsoft made a passing attempt at retrofitting security into its early operating systems, they didn't get any money for this. So, we should be extremely grateful that they actually fixed security problems for 8 years for Windows 98. Other companies would not support any software for that length of time. Thanks Jim for what is, to me, the most intelligent post related to operating systems that I've seen on this list. Except that it is not entirely accurate. Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix as did BSD. Unix is very old. MS *chose* to not implement security due to profit considerations and the impossbility of security because of the wide-open-everything-executes-in-root structure. It was a marketing and technological nightmare -- I remember it well as a systems manager and consultant. extremely grateful? You have to be kidding! Bill Gates marketed and promoted secure and stable and while he raked in billions he shipped insecure and unstable. How soon we forget. It would be enlightening to read a list of what is worth doing, for 99% of average users, that is not available free under Linux. OS = Free Office apps = Free Internet apps = Free Music processing = Free Video processing = Free Games = Free And to get this back on topic ... Ham digital apps = Free Ham antenna calculators = Free Ham logging = Free Ham DX spotting = Free Ham HT programming apps = Free Now I donate to many Linux developers because I want to support them. It is not about Free to me, it is about choice and integrity and freedom from abusive OS contracts and limitations. Back to digital radio. -- Thanks! 73, doc, KD4E ~~ Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com Personal: http://bibleseven.com http://bibleseven.com ~~
[digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
http://www.fcw.com/article97508-01-30-07-WebprintLayout I wonder how many amateur radio applications will be broken if someone moves to Vista? Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
There are new APIs for accessing soundcards, these should be used for best results. For my multitudinous sins I'll have to put a VISTA crate together to provide this support. the XP code still works but one really should use the new APIs. Other than that I don't see any problems with running code designed for NT/2K/XP or 98. Simon Brown, HB9DRV (GD4ELI March 2nd - 12th 2006) - Original Message - From: DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility http://www.fcw.com/article97508-01-30-07-WebprintLayout I wonder how many amateur radio applications will be broken if someone moves to Vista?
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
Hi! Tested on Vista RC2 - Mixw does NOT work, it needs to be in compatibility mode Regards On 1/31/07, Simon Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are new APIs for accessing soundcards, these should be used for best results. For my multitudinous sins I'll have to put a VISTA crate together to provide this support. the XP code still works but one really should use the new APIs. Other than that I don't see any problems with running code designed for NT/2K/XP or 98. Simon Brown, HB9DRV (GD4ELI March 2nd - 12th 2006) - Original Message - From: DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility http://www.fcw.com/article97508-01-30-07-WebprintLayout I wonder how many amateur radio applications will be broken if someone moves to Vista? Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links -- Cumprimentos Salomão Fresco CT2IRJ If it works... dont fix it! Esta mensagem foi escrita com electrões 100% reciclados.
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
- Original Message - From: Salomao Fresco [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tested on Vista RC2 - Mixw does NOT work, it needs to be in compatibility mode I'm not assocuiated with MixW myself, in fact I've never used it. When I get my soundcard DLL written for VISTA I'll make the source available. Simon Brown, HB9DRV (GD4ELI March 2nd - 12th 2006)
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
Interesting. Run PSK on AM and you get two sidebands for diversity reception and a pilot carrier. This could make building small PSK rigs easier... Leigh/WA5ZNU On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 7:38 am, DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote: http://www.fcw.com/article97508-01-30-07-WebprintLayout I wonder how many amateur radio applications will be broken if someone moves to Vista? Walt/K5YFW Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
I have been following this thread. Is the fact that a number of applications will break with Vista a problem? Of course it is. But this has been the case for the last several (many) versions of MS Windows, and most other operating system upgrades as well. But before condemning Microsoft for breaking all of your software, take a look back at the history of Windows and maybe a few other things as well: 1. Windows 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 were all 16 bit operating systems. They existed before the Internet and there was little if any security built into them. It simply wasn't needed because before Windows for Workgroups, Windows PCs were stand-alone. 2. The majority of Internet protocols (FTP, TFTP, Telnet, SMTP, and many others) were developed in the days when the Internet was Arpanet. Arpanet was a closed shop; there was little worry about security because there was limited access to the network and that access was closely guarded. Security was provided by physical access controls, and by passwords on the limited number of computers on the network. 3. With advances in processor design, 32 bit processors became the norm, and Microsoft came up with Windows NT and Windows 2000 for business users, and Windows 95, 98, and ME for home users. Security was not a requirement for 95, 98, and ME because nobody asked for it, or was willing to pay for it. Do you upgrade to any of these operating systems because they provided more security than the versions you were using? Of course not! 4. Windows 95 and I think Windows 98 had backwards compatibility for 16 bit applications. Should that still be in the current versions of Windows? I would vote a resounding NO. But of course this means that all of your old 16 bit programs no longer can be used. 5. Around this time (Windows 3.1, 95, etc.) the Internet was unleashed on the world, and it used all of those nice protocols that were developed for Arpanet. No security then, and the same protocols have little or no security in them now. 6. It wasn't until the hackers (actually crackers is the correct term) started causing problems on the Internet that security became a concern. Then it was all Microsoft's fault because they hadn't built security into their products. Review #3 above; security was not something anybody was willing to pay for. 7. While Microsoft made a passing attempt at retrofitting security into its early operating systems, they didn't get any money for this. So, we should be extremely grateful that they actually fixed security problems for 8 years for Windows 98. Other companies would not support any software for that length of time. 8. Windows NT and 2000 has security features built into them because they were meant for the business environment where security was a requirement. It was not until Windows XP, which was built on the NT and 2000 platform, did security ever become a concern for home users. Think back to about 1999 or 2000; that is when security problems with Windows and Internet protocols began to show up and people started screaming for security. So Microsoft obliged with their first home OS with security built into it. This, of course, broke all of those lovely programs that completely ignored security (security wasn't a requirement of those programs either, I guess). 9. Now Vista has been released, and the security features built into it will break more programs. However, Windows XP will be supported for a number of years, so if you don't need the added functionality that comes with Vista, you can run your programs for a while longer. This will give the program developers time to either find workarounds for the added security in Vista, or hopefully, actually build security in where needed. Now compare Microsoft's support of its products with the support of other computer companies: 1. In the bad old days of mainframes, the mainframe manufacturers typically supported old versions of operating systems for a maximum of two years, and typically less than that. It was either upgrade, including buying upgraded versions of applications, or end up supporting everything yourself, if the companies would release the source code to you. I know of only one mainframe company that did that. 2. Mac OS went through a similar, programs don't work, phase with the release of Mac OS X. Think also of the number of times they have changed processor manufacturers. Every time they did that, all applications had to be rewritten or at least rebuilt. 3. Linux, which a number of people on this list are so fond of, also breaks some applications whenever a new version of the Linux kernel is released. There just aren't as many because there are not nearly the number of programs that have been written for Linux. Think of all of the programs that stopped working when firewalls became part of Linux and they were configured for standard, minimalist, safe network use. I guess the whole point of this rant is:
RE: [digitalradio] Vista emphasizes security over compatibility
73 and thanks for your patience in reading, and I hope understanding all of the above. Jim VA3JNO Thanks Jim for what is, to me, the most intelligent post related to operating systems that I've seen on this list. de Peter K1PGV (I am not now, nor have I ever been, employed by MSFT)
