Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Hello Bill, According to the Multipsk help, it is -5 dB for the 125 bauds (which is logic for this speed). But -5 dB with a gaussian noise (fix statistical characteristics). 73 Patrick BPSK125 and QPSK125 Creation: in 2003 Description : Baud rate : 125 Speed : 148 wpm in capital letters and 204 wpm in small letters (average) Bandwidth : about 320 Hz, Drift tolerance : 120 Hz/min in BPSK125 and 40 Hz/min in QPSK125 (depending on level) Lowest S/N : -5 dB 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Bill McLaughlin To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:11 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk Hi Rick, I think FNpsk uses QPSK125 and PSK31...but otherwise you are correct as there is no speed difference that I am aware of between BPSK125 and QPSK125QPSK125 is alot more frequency sensitive then BPSK125 and I think that about -5 db S/N is probably more realistic than -8 db S/N. 73 Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to the information in the help files from Multipsk: 1200 baud Packet = 1320 wpm BPSK125 = 148 wpm capital and 204 wpm small letter average speed at about -8 db S/N Of course this assumes that both have good signal strengths and there are no hits. If the PSK125 mode takes a hit it keeps on sending and the receiving station gets errors. If the packet receiving station gets errors, it requires retries and since this mode also requires much greater signal strength to operate, it can easily have zero throughput and time out eventally after many retries. Packet may need something like +8 db S/N to function. This means it is about the same or slightly worse than the OFDM mode used in digital SSTV programs. Anyone else have more real world numbers? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: Here is an interesting question... What is the user throughput in WPM or CPS (what you see on your monitor) in 1200 baud AX.25 and the 190-200 WPM user throughput of PSK125? I have send many, many pure SMTP messages using sendmail over AX.25 KISS mode with a NOS stack. I have also worked with HTML message/E-Mail templates and find only a couple hundred characters different in the template E-Mails/messages and those that are full and complete E-Mail such as used by sendmail. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Hello Rick, 1200 bauds is equivalent to 1200 bits/sec as there is 1bit/symbol. 1 letter is worth 8 bits. So in one second, you transmit 1200/8= 150 letters In one minute you transmit: 150*60 or in words: 150*60/6=1500. But as there is an overhead due to adress... 1320 is more realistic. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: KV9U To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk I used to struggle with converting from cps to wpm until one day my brain actually kicked in and I made the association this way: cps x 60 seconds / 6 characters per word = wpm Therefore, if 120 cps x 60 = 7200 / 6 = 1200 wpm Thus, to convert from cps to wpm, just add a zero. To convert from wpm to cps remove a zero. But it also means that your can roughly estimate wpm as being similar to the bps rate unless you are doing FEC and other coding: Thus 1200 bps ~ 1200 wpm. But because of overhead, I usually round a byte up to a nice even 10 bits so I would agree with using a slower value such as your 120 cps. Seem reasonable? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. As far as a mode using a VariCode, the WPM throughput would normally be expected to be one CAP for every 60 lower case characters. That's less than 2% caps so I would think that you would get close to 190 WPM (maybe as low as 180 WPM) in a 200 WPM mode using the VAriCode such as used in PSK125. I would assmue that on keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs that the robustness would be more of a concern than the throughput. 73, Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
The bps with packet is the same as the baud rate. With other modes that have different levels, the signalling rate (the baud rate) can have more than one bit sent per baud. The fastest baud rate that Pactor uses is 200 baud, but the bps rate is many times faster with P2 and P3. The speed of conventional packet used to seem nearly fantastic when you watched 1200 baud data coming through with each packet. The lines of text would kind of lay down or unfold across the screen or across the printer if you were taking it directly as a printed document. In one minute, it would more than fill a page if you had a 100% connection with no retries due to weak signals or interference. Then we got 9600 and 14400 bps modems for our computers through the phone lines and 1200 baud radio seemed very slow indeed. Of course when the data goes through the phone line, the baud rate is not that high from what I understand. But with all the trellis codes and such, they could get the bps rate eventally up to almost 56k on a very good line because of the stability of wireline. We can not do that on RF circuits since there is more variation in amplitudes and more interference, etc. 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: So is 1200 baud = 1200 bps and 1200 bps (1200 / 8) = 120 cps? If so then 120 cps (120 / 6) = 20 wps X 60 sec. or 1200 WPM. That's over 1.5 pages per minute. (Page = 72-76 characters X 60 - 66 lines per page.) Walt/K5YFW Chris Jewell wrote: Walt DuBose writes: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. (120 chars/sec) / (6 chars/word) = 20 words / second (not per minute) 20 x 60 = 1200 words/minute. Besides, while I don't know a lot about AX.25, I'm pretty sure that X.25, from which AX.25 is derived, is synchronous (no start or stop bits).
PSK 1200 baud anyone? (was Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk)
Something I never have quite understood is that in the late 90's in Indonesia, hams have used 1200 baud satellite PSK modems on 40 meters with seemingly good results. It has been a bit hard for me to follow that. Does anyone have a sensible explanation for this to be useful. I do not own such a modem, nor found anyone on those days to gove it a try. And I had almost forgotten about it. It seems that a 16 dB adventage for PSK125 is not trivial...it will work when the other won't or will work equally with 40 times less power... 73 de Jose, CO2JA KV9U wrote: According to the information in the help files from Multipsk: 1200 baud Packet = 1320 wpm BPSK125 = 148 wpm capital and 204 wpm small letter average speed at about -8 db S/N Of course this assumes that both have good signal strengths and there are no hits. If the PSK125 mode takes a hit it keeps on sending and the receiving station gets errors. If the packet receiving station gets errors, it requires retries and since this mode also requires much greater signal strength to operate, it can easily have zero throughput and time out eventally after many retries. Packet may need something like +8 db S/N to function. This means it is about the same or slightly worse than the OFDM mode used in digital SSTV programs. Anyone else have more real world numbers? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: Here is an interesting question... What is the user throughput in WPM or CPS (what you see on your monitor) in 1200 baud AX.25 and the 190-200 WPM user throughput of PSK125? I have send many, many pure SMTP messages using sendmail over AX.25 KISS mode with a NOS stack. I have also worked with HTML message/E-Mail templates and find only a couple hundred characters different in the template E-Mails/messages and those that are full and complete E-Mail such as used by sendmail. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
According to the information in the help files from Multipsk: 1200 baud Packet = 1320 wpm BPSK125 = 148 wpm capital and 204 wpm small letter average speed at about -8 db S/N Of course this assumes that both have good signal strengths and there are no hits. If the PSK125 mode takes a hit it keeps on sending and the receiving station gets errors. If the packet receiving station gets errors, it requires retries and since this mode also requires much greater signal strength to operate, it can easily have zero throughput and time out eventally after many retries. Packet may need something like +8 db S/N to function. This means it is about the same or slightly worse than the OFDM mode used in digital SSTV programs. Anyone else have more real world numbers? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: Here is an interesting question... What is the user throughput in WPM or CPS (what you see on your monitor) in 1200 baud AX.25 and the 190-200 WPM user throughput of PSK125? I have send many, many pure SMTP messages using sendmail over AX.25 KISS mode with a NOS stack. I have also worked with HTML message/E-Mail templates and find only a couple hundred characters different in the template E-Mails/messages and those that are full and complete E-Mail such as used by sendmail. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. As far as a mode using a VariCode, the WPM throughput would normally be expected to be one CAP for every 60 lower case characters. That's less than 2% caps so I would think that you would get close to 190 WPM (maybe as low as 180 WPM) in a 200 WPM mode using the VAriCode such as used in PSK125. I would assmue that on keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs that the robustness would be more of a concern than the throughput. 73, Walt/K5YFW KV9U wrote: According to the information in the help files from Multipsk: 1200 baud Packet = 1320 wpm BPSK125 = 148 wpm capital and 204 wpm small letter average speed at about -8 db S/N Of course this assumes that both have good signal strengths and there are no hits. If the PSK125 mode takes a hit it keeps on sending and the receiving station gets errors. If the packet receiving station gets errors, it requires retries and since this mode also requires much greater signal strength to operate, it can easily have zero throughput and time out eventally after many retries. Packet may need something like +8 db S/N to function. This means it is about the same or slightly worse than the OFDM mode used in digital SSTV programs. Anyone else have more real world numbers? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: Here is an interesting question... What is the user throughput in WPM or CPS (what you see on your monitor) in 1200 baud AX.25 and the 190-200 WPM user throughput of PSK125? I have send many, many pure SMTP messages using sendmail over AX.25 KISS mode with a NOS stack. I have also worked with HTML message/E-Mail templates and find only a couple hundred characters different in the template E-Mails/messages and those that are full and complete E-Mail such as used by sendmail. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
I used to struggle with converting from cps to wpm until one day my brain actually kicked in and I made the association this way: cps x 60 seconds / 6 characters per word = wpm Therefore, if 120 cps x 60 = 7200 / 6 = 1200 wpm Thus, to convert from cps to wpm, just add a zero. To convert from wpm to cps remove a zero. But it also means that your can roughly estimate wpm as being similar to the bps rate unless you are doing FEC and other coding: Thus 1200 bps ~ 1200 wpm. But because of overhead, I usually round a byte up to a nice even 10 bits so I would agree with using a slower value such as your 120 cps. Seem reasonable? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. As far as a mode using a VariCode, the WPM throughput would normally be expected to be one CAP for every 60 lower case characters. That's less than 2% caps so I would think that you would get close to 190 WPM (maybe as low as 180 WPM) in a 200 WPM mode using the VAriCode such as used in PSK125. I would assmue that on keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs that the robustness would be more of a concern than the throughput. 73, Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Walt DuBose writes: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. (120 chars/sec) / (6 chars/word) = 20 words / second (not per minute) 20 x 60 = 1200 words/minute. Besides, while I don't know a lot about AX.25, I'm pretty sure that X.25, from which AX.25 is derived, is synchronous (no start or stop bits). -- 73 DE KW6H (ex-AE6VW) Chris JewellGualala CA USA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Ok...got it. I think I see my mistake. Thsnk 73, Walt/K5YFW KV9U wrote: I used to struggle with converting from cps to wpm until one day my brain actually kicked in and I made the association this way: cps x 60 seconds / 6 characters per word = wpm Therefore, if 120 cps x 60 = 7200 / 6 = 1200 wpm Thus, to convert from cps to wpm, just add a zero. To convert from wpm to cps remove a zero. But it also means that your can roughly estimate wpm as being similar to the bps rate unless you are doing FEC and other coding: Thus 1200 bps ~ 1200 wpm. But because of overhead, I usually round a byte up to a nice even 10 bits so I would agree with using a slower value such as your 120 cps. Seem reasonable? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. As far as a mode using a VariCode, the WPM throughput would normally be expected to be one CAP for every 60 lower case characters. That's less than 2% caps so I would think that you would get close to 190 WPM (maybe as low as 180 WPM) in a 200 WPM mode using the VAriCode such as used in PSK125. I would assmue that on keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs that the robustness would be more of a concern than the throughput. 73, Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
So is 1200 baud = 1200 bps and 1200 bps (1200 / 8) = 120 cps? If so then 120 cps (120 / 6) = 20 wps X 60 sec. or 1200 WPM. That's over 1.5 pages per minute. (Page = 72-76 characters X 60 - 66 lines per page.) Walt/K5YFW Chris Jewell wrote: Walt DuBose writes: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. (120 chars/sec) / (6 chars/word) = 20 words / second (not per minute) 20 x 60 = 1200 words/minute. Besides, while I don't know a lot about AX.25, I'm pretty sure that X.25, from which AX.25 is derived, is synchronous (no start or stop bits).
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
How many bps is 1200 baud FSK? How many bps = cps? Walt/K5YFW KV9U wrote: I used to struggle with converting from cps to wpm until one day my brain actually kicked in and I made the association this way: cps x 60 seconds / 6 characters per word = wpm Therefore, if 120 cps x 60 = 7200 / 6 = 1200 wpm Thus, to convert from cps to wpm, just add a zero. To convert from wpm to cps remove a zero. But it also means that your can roughly estimate wpm as being similar to the bps rate unless you are doing FEC and other coding: Thus 1200 bps ~ 1200 wpm. But because of overhead, I usually round a byte up to a nice even 10 bits so I would agree with using a slower value such as your 120 cps. Seem reasonable? 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: How can 1200 baud = 1320 WPM? In the case of AX.25 baud=bps since a mark-space=one bit. An 8 bit ASCII character with start and stop bits would be 10 bps so 1200 bps=120 CPS. If a word is 6 characters, then 120 CPS = 20 WPM which we know is too slow. As far as a mode using a VariCode, the WPM throughput would normally be expected to be one CAP for every 60 lower case characters. That's less than 2% caps so I would think that you would get close to 190 WPM (maybe as low as 180 WPM) in a 200 WPM mode using the VAriCode such as used in PSK125. I would assmue that on keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs that the robustness would be more of a concern than the throughput. 73, Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Rick, Anyone using a PC with 256mb ram can use the live CD for pskmail. I have a server (VE7SUN) running 24/7 on 3595.25Khz using psk125 from the live CD and also a client at home also running the CD. All the servers are listed on the pskmail site. My station (VE7CUS) beacons every 15 minutes when I have it running on that freq. Check your APRS app or findu for the locations. Darrel On 29-Jan-07, at 7:36 PM, KV9U wrote: Back in June 2005, Andy and I did some tests with FNpsk. I can't exactly remember how the ARQ works, other than sending a sizeable block and then requesting a retry if it doesn't get the right checksum? There did not seem to be any interest from other group members at the time. From some things I have come across on the internet, the FNPSK author may not be actively working on it anymore. I don't think he had any contact with this group did he? The comment made by a ham was that the ARRL BOD have pretty much accepted the ARESCOM digital network as the network for us, even though they don't seem to use its real name. At this time, PSKmail seems like a better approach, but it can only work on Linux OS so very few hams will have the ability to even try it. PSKmail can also connect to a server to send e-mail. Unlike the centrally controlled Winlink 2000 system, any ham can set up a server from what I can tell. Maybe Rein can fill us in on that. I like the idea of being able to set something up quickly on an ad hoc basis to fill a need if emergencies occur. By the way, I looked through the minutes of the ARRL board meeting and did not find a reference to promoting competition for new kind of sound card data. Did I just miss it? I did a search for anything with digital in the name and did not find much. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Walt DuBose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone tell me about FNPSK? Thanks 73, Walt/K5YFW Walt, I used it and tested it a year or so ago, it works as advertised. It essentially formats NTS-Type messages and allows you to use PSK31 or PSk63. However, I found NO nets that used the format. I wish that 80M RTTY NTS would try it. They meet nightly and require so many fills using RTTY, this would make their life a lot easier. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
If we did not have to send all the formatting of a message type, and only sent a special identifier of the format, the text data would be a fraction of the total we would normally have to send compared to a .doc file or even a much more efficient Open Office native .odt file. 73, Rick, KV9U This is a fascinating concept that bears further attention. I cannot think of any reason why this could not be done. It is like moving comma-delimited files from one database to another. The database templates and reports and input screens are all held locally, only the raw data files move. The program knows what to do after Importing the raw data. I am going back to my dBaseIII days to recall this but it should work fine. -- Thanks! 73, doc, KD4E ~~ Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com Personal: http://bibleseven.com ~~ Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Rein and All, The only description I have of FNpsk is found at http://www.w1fn.org/fnpsk/index.html I downloaded the applications and unzipped it and found an FNpsk.CAB file which I unzipped and it had all the help files in it starting from the mainscreen.html. Thus far this is all I know about FNpsk. But I like the functionality. I would be concerned about using QPSK63 and not PSK63 or PSK125 and also their error handling method(s). Here are some quotes from the Help Files on Error Handling... Error Handling Error control objectives PSK is thought of as a way to achieve good communication under very poor signal-to-noise conditions. That is not the major goal for FNpsk. The goal of FNpsk is to achieve error-free transmission under moderate signal-to-noise conditions. This is because FNpsk is used for emergency traffic where even a single error can be important. To achieve this goal FNpsk uses additional error control mechanisms that are not used in typical PSK31 operation. QPSK Quadrature Phase Shift Keying (QPSK) is a transmission technique available in the standard PSK31/63 protocol suite. QPSK is not generally used in normal amateur radio communication, but it does provide a degree of improvement in per-character error performance so it is suggested that QPSK be used when handling emergency messages. The default mode of FNpsk uses the PSK63 QPSK LSB protocol. Framing FNpsk splits messages into frames. If errors occur in a received frame then the errored frame is re-transmitted The process used is as follows: The sending station transmits all frames in sequence to the destination(s). At the end of each frame a checksum is sent so the destination(s) can tell whether the frame is received correctly. After all frames have been sent the sending station polls each receiving station to find out if any frames were received in error and need to be re-transmitted. If the poll response indicates that a frame was received in error then the frame is retransmitted. Maximum frame length Even under good conditions there is a small probability that a received frame will contain errors, and the probability increases as the frame length increases. If a frame is too long then re-transmitting may not help because each re-transmission is also likely to fail. Under these circumstances the only two alternatives are to shorten the frame length or improve the signal-to-noise performance of the channel. FNpsk provides two frame lengths which can be chosen to optimize efficiency and performance. The longer frame length is best suited for high quality paths often found on VHF/UHF networks. The shorter frame length is best suited for noisier HF paths. Caution Error detection and retransmission techniques are provided in FNpsk with the goal of achieving error-free performance, but there can be no guarantee that errors might not be introduced under exceptional conditions. The authors and providers of this program accept no responsibility for consequences resulting from errors or malfunctions of this program or its use. Such consequences are solely the responsibility of the user. It is my understanding with the ARRL ECCOM Group recommending WinLink 2000 that the developer of FNpsk has stopped working on the applications. I do not know if the PSK DLL used was the original one used in PSK63/QPSK63 and if the error handling is as good as K9PS's AQR protocol...I think not. I am wondering how FNpsk would work with PSK125 and Paul's ARQ protocol. Actually if you could have both applications running and using the same sound card at the same time on the same mode, then I would thing that having too separate would be Ok but of course integrating them is better. 73, Walt/K5YFW Original Message Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:27:17 +0100 From: Rein Couperus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Everybody with an HF trx and a laptop that has a CD drive and a soundcard can set up a server and connect it to the internet, provided the trx has reasonable fequency stability . We are planning to include HF forwarding capability in both client and server. The user interface of the client is Evolution (like Outlook (C)Microsoft Company). You write the messages in a normal mail client, and then press the send button. Can you tell me what FNpsk capability is lacking in pskmail at present? (Just for our long term planning...) 73, Rein EA/PA0R/P At this time, PSKmail seems like a better approach, but it can only work on Linux OS so very few hams will have the ability to even try it. PSKmail can also connect to a server to send e-mail. Unlike the centrally controlled Winlink 2000 system, any ham can set up a server from what I can tell. Maybe Rein can fill us in on that. I like the idea of being able to set something up quickly
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
At 03:27 AM 1/30/2007, Rein Couperus wrote: Everybody with an HF trx and a laptop that has a CD drive and a soundcard can set up a server and connect it to the internet, provided the trx has reasonable fequency stability . We are planning to include HF forwarding capability in both client and server. The user interface of the client is Evolution (like Outlook (C)Microsoft Company). You write the messages in a normal mail client, and then press the send button. Can you tell me what FNpsk capability is lacking in pskmail at present? (Just for our long term planning...) 73, Rein EA/PA0R/P Windows. :-} 73, Chuck AA5J
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Hey, I proposed this last month for contests and PSK ragchews using QRZ.com as the database... Leigh/WA5ZNU On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 7:32 am, kd4e wrote: If we did not have to send all the formatting of a message type, and only sent a special identifier of the format, the text data would be a fraction of the total we would normally have to send compared to a .doc file or even a much more efficient Open Office native .odt file. 73, Rick, KV9U This is a fascinating concept that bears further attention. I cannot think of any reason why this could not be done. It is like moving comma-delimited files from one database to another. The database templates and reports and input screens are all held locally, only the raw data files move. The program knows what to do after Importing the raw data. I am going back to my dBaseIII days to recall this but it should work fine. --
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Vojtect OK1AK's PocketDigi may be the answer here, in the x86 version. Especially if the cntrol gets done over TCP. Leigh/WA5ZNU On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:17 am, Chuck Mayfield wrote: At 03:27 AM 1/30/2007, Rein Couperus wrote: Everybody with an HF trx and a laptop that has a CD drive and a soundcard can set up a server and connect it to the internet, provided the trx has reasonable fequency stability . We are planning to include HF forwarding capability in both client and server. The user interface of the client is Evolution (like Outlook (C)Microsoft Company). You write the messages in a normal mail client, and then press the send button. Can you tell me what FNpsk capability is lacking in pskmail at present? (Just for our long term planning...) 73, Rein EA/PA0R/P Windows. :-} 73, Chuck AA5J Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
At 01:25 PM 1/30/2007, Rein Couperus wrote: M$ gives you windows, Linux gives you as many desktops as you like :)) Rein Rein, I am certainly not a fan of M$ or Windows, but M$ Windows is used by a VERY large percentage of ham radio operators who use computers. FNPsk runs directly under windows. That does not make it good, but that makes it accessible to a very large percentage of ham radio operators. Best Regards, Chuck, AA5J
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
If you use a dedicated computer for your gateway, which is somewhat likely if you use a dedicated radio, then you can just stick the CD in and go... 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:04 pm, Chuck Mayfield wrote: At 01:25 PM 1/30/2007, Rein Couperus wrote: M$ gives you windows, Linux gives you as many desktops as you like :)) Rein Rein, I am certainly not a fan of M$ or Windows, but M$ Windows is used by a VERY large percentage of ham radio operators who use computers. FNPsk runs directly under windows. That does not make it good, but that makes it accessible to a very large percentage of ham radio operators. Best Regards, Chuck, AA5J Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
If at all possible (or convenient) I would accept the operators to use Windows. It is THEIR problem with virus and other vulnerabilities. For the server, life would be much simpler using Linux. No antivirus or Service Packs needed... Jose, CO2JA --- Leigh L Klotz, Jr. wrote: If you use a dedicated computer for your gateway, which is somewhat likely if you use a dedicated radio, then you can just stick the CD in and go... 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:04 pm, Chuck Mayfield wrote: At 01:25 PM 1/30/2007, Rein Couperus wrote: M$ gives you windows, Linux gives you as many desktops as you like :)) Rein Rein, I am certainly not a fan of M$ or Windows, but M$ Windows is used by a VERY large percentage of ham radio operators who use computers. FNPsk runs directly under windows. That does not make it good, but that makes it accessible to a very large percentage of ham radio operators. Best Regards, Chuck, AA5J
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Whats wrong with service packs and AV and security hot fixes? Us networking guys have to stay in business. Seriously though I would recommend using Linux over MS. This recent daylight savings time issue shows how Microsoft can be heavy handed. Basically you have to upgrade systems to the newest OS in order to have the correct time to show up when day light savings time occurs. Or you can pay them $40k for a special patch. - Original Message - From: Jose A. Amador To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk If at all possible (or convenient) I would accept the operators to use Windows. It is THEIR problem with virus and other vulnerabilities. For the server, life would be much simpler using Linux. No antivirus or Service Packs needed... Jose, CO2JA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Say what? My XP and My W2000pro machines all still show the correct date? Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: James Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk Whats wrong with service packs and AV and security hot fixes? Us networking guys have to stay in business. Seriously though I would recommend using Linux over MS. This recent daylight savings time issue shows how Microsoft can be heavy handed. Basically you have to upgrade systems to the newest OS in order to have the correct time to show up when day light savings time occurs. Or you can pay them $40k for a special patch. - Original Message - From: Jose A. Amador To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk If at all possible (or convenient) I would accept the operators to use Windows. It is THEIR problem with virus and other vulnerabilities. For the server, life would be much simpler using Linux. No antivirus or Service Packs needed... Jose, CO2JA Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.15/659 - Release Date: 1/30/2007 9:31 AM
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Here is an interesting question... What is the user throughput in WPM or CPS (what you see on your monitor) in 1200 baud AX.25 and the 190-200 WPM user throughput of PSK125? I have send many, many pure SMTP messages using sendmail over AX.25 KISS mode with a NOS stack. I have also worked with HTML message/E-Mail templates and find only a couple hundred characters different in the template E-Mails/messages and those that are full and complete E-Mail such as used by sendmail. Walt/K5YFW KV9U wrote: PSK mail appears to be similar in user interface to the Winlink 2000 Paclink program that also interfaces with an e-mail program. FNpsk had its own built in, but very basic, mail program. I think you could write templates for it so it was possible to send various kinds of messages. If we did not have to send all the formatting of a message type, and only sent a special identifier of the format, the text data would be a fraction of the total we would normally have to send compared to a .doc file or even a much more efficient Open Office native .odt file. The main limitation would be the transfer speeds and how well it works under difficult conditions. It is ironic that here we have a mode that works for weaker signals, well below the noise, and we have (had) another mode that worked screamingly fast with a wide bandwidth but needed 10 db S/N and was faster than Pactor 2 and not that far behind Pactor 3, but we don't have something that can adapt to conditions by combining this synergistic power. It has to happen eventually. 73, Rick, KV9U Rein Couperus wrote: Everybody with an HF trx and a laptop that has a CD drive and a soundcard can set up a server and connect it to the internet, provided the trx has reasonable fequency stability . We are planning to include HF forwarding capability in both client and server. The user interface of the client is Evolution (like Outlook (C)Microsoft Company). You write the messages in a normal mail client, and then press the send button. Can you tell me what FNpsk capability is lacking in pskmail at present? (Just for our long term planning...) 73, Rein EA/PA0R/P At this time, PSKmail seems like a better approach, but it can only work on Linux OS so very few hams will have the ability to even try it. PSKmail can also connect to a server to send e-mail. Unlike the centrally controlled Winlink 2000 system, any ham can set up a server from what I can tell. Maybe Rein can fill us in on that. I like the idea of being able to set something up quickly on an ad hoc basis to fill a need if emergencies occur.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
James Wilson wrote: Whats wrong with service packs and AV and security hot fixes? Us networking guys have to stay in business. Seriously though I would recommend using Linux over MS. This recent daylight savings time issue shows how Microsoft can be heavy handed. Basically you have to upgrade systems to the newest OS in order to have the correct time to show up when day light savings time occurs. Or you can pay them $40k for a special patch. I have 6 M$ W2000 servers to look after and 150 XP professional clients. We have SMS to push patches, updates, anti-virus signature files but always have 10-20% of the clients that fail to get the push. I have two military people doing all the patching that SMS misses plus all the other routine things that you have to do for a customer. I have worked the same environment with 12 Unix/Linux servers and 550 Unix/Linux clients and had only two individuals for customer server and the systems worked better. Do I have a problem with M$, nope...but my company sure does in what they have to spend. Oh yes, its your tax money that is paying for this IT...almost 4 times for M$ as it cost using Unix/Linux. Multiply this by the 200 other like units and you spend $1500 per seat per year for M$ and 2/3 of that ($1000) for Linux/Unix. So M$ is costing $100,000 more per year for the 200 like units...and these 200 units probably account for less than 1% of the total department's IT use. So let's let the U.S. goberment spend...errr give? our tax dollars to M$. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Back in June 2005, Andy and I did some tests with FNpsk. I can't exactly remember how the ARQ works, other than sending a sizeable block and then requesting a retry if it doesn't get the right checksum? There did not seem to be any interest from other group members at the time. From some things I have come across on the internet, the FNPSK author may not be actively working on it anymore. I don't think he had any contact with this group did he? The comment made by a ham was that the ARRL BOD have pretty much accepted the ARESCOM digital network as the network for us, even though they don't seem to use its real name. At this time, PSKmail seems like a better approach, but it can only work on Linux OS so very few hams will have the ability to even try it. PSKmail can also connect to a server to send e-mail. Unlike the centrally controlled Winlink 2000 system, any ham can set up a server from what I can tell. Maybe Rein can fill us in on that. I like the idea of being able to set something up quickly on an ad hoc basis to fill a need if emergencies occur. By the way, I looked through the minutes of the ARRL board meeting and did not find a reference to promoting competition for new kind of sound card data. Did I just miss it? I did a search for anything with digital in the name and did not find much. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Walt DuBose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone tell me about FNPSK? Thanks 73, Walt/K5YFW Walt, I used it and tested it a year or so ago, it works as advertised. It essentially formats NTS-Type messages and allows you to use PSK31 or PSk63. However, I found NO nets that used the format. I wish that 80M RTTY NTS would try it. They meet nightly and require so many fills using RTTY, this would make their life a lot easier. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FNpsk
Andrew O'Brien wrote: --- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com, Walt DuBose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone tell me about FNPSK? Thanks 73, Walt/K5YFW Walt, I used it and tested it a year or so ago, it works as advertised. It essentially formats NTS-Type messages and allows you to use PSK31 or PSk63. However, I found NO nets that used the format. I wish that 80M RTTY NTS would try it. They meet nightly and require so many fills using RTTY, this would make their life a lot easier. Andy K3UK Andy, I'd like to see its operation integrated into PSKMail and a few other things and have a super Linux applications. Walt/K5YFW
