Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

NoOp wrote on 2010-10-09 21.00:


Thanks. Can a small note be added to the 'Mailing Lists' section of:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/
advising of the nomail option?


I guess this would confuse the average user, we already receive 
complaints that people don't know what all these links mean. Those who 
are experts and use GMANE surely can drop a note to the +help alias, 
where things are advertised. :-)


In the meantime, I contacted GMANE, let's see what we can do.

Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880
Fax: +49 8341 99660889
Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Charles Marcus]

On 2010-10-09 9:14 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> It is important that people who prefer to use Gmane instead of
> receiving emails be able to do so simply.

It is important to those people, yes... but you seem to be refusing to
grasp the simple fact that there are a very limited number of people
working on a monumentally huge task, and they *must* prioritize things.

No offense, but you remind me of my spoiled brat nephew who wants what
he wants when he wants and to hell with everyone else. Maybe you didn't
intend to come across this way, but you did - go back and re-read your
posts, especially how many times you complained loudly about having to
get email to be able to post through gmane even after you had been told
multiple times about the nomail subscription option, although you
obviously finally got the message.

I understand frustration, and am myself very vocal and generous in
criticism when I feel it is warranted, however The Document Foundation
effort is still extremely new, and I believe they deserve a lot of
respect for the monumental task they are undertaking. What they don't
deserve is a bunch of us all yelling at the same time about our own pet
peeves as if ours were the only ones that mattered.

> I originally subscribed to the email list. When Gmane became
> available, I started using it and unsubscribed to the list. When I
> couldn't post through Gmane I re-subscribed to the list. Later I
> unsubscribed again and then subscribed to the nomail list.

So now you have what you want... "don't worry, be happy" now. :)

> There is no indication on your webpage or on Gmane to indicate that
> you have to subscribe to the mailing list to post through Gmane, as I
> stated before. Indeed there should be no need to do so.

So maybe you could be constructive and write up some appropriate changes
and submit them to Florian so he could update the website.

> Having to jump through hoops like this and getting responses like
> yours lowers my desire to have any thing to do with Document
> Foundation

Responses - like - politely informing you of a very simple workaround
and explaining in detail the hows and whys of the situation right now,
and that things will be dealt with when time allows?

Personally I think you have been very demanding and unreasonable during
this entire thread, Larry, and owe an apology to Florian and the others
doing the heavy lifting.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/10 5:23 AM  Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:

What would you be giving away?


Maintenance and control over the content of the archives. Will Gnome
store them for tenths of years? at the same place?


According to your website you have your archives set up.The question of how long Gmane will 
store posts is irrelevant. You have control of your own archives



As for the past, I do not know what you mean.


In this case it is not easy to discuss this topic with you, because you
don't know about the necessities for our mailing lists either.

The OpenOffice.org lists have been hosted by CollabNet, that had
restrictions in list management (language dependent information mails
just to mention one point). We asked them several times for
improvements, but changes have been very hard to achieve (if at all).


I know that. It is also irrelevant to the question of posting through Gmane. You have control 
of your lists and archives. They have nothing to do with Gmane.



Gmane is the simplest way to follow OOo groups and would be the
simplest way to follow this and other LibreOffice lists without
having to deal with a ton of emails every day.


Please consider, that this position is your own personal opinion.
Many other people think differently. I need to download the mails, because I have to work 
offline some time. Others have very limited and unreliable online connections.


Gmane is probably not the simplest way to manage mailing list even if you consider it to be 
the best way for you to read them.


Who said anything about managing mailing lists? Gmane provides a way to read and post to a 
mailing list through a newsreader. It is not managing any mail lists.


So I don't understand why you insist on this point instead of just unsubscribing and 
re-subscribing with the nomail-option that allows you to send to the list (via Gmane or 
directly) without receiving *any* of the list mails.


Obviously I have done this since I am posting through Gmane (see the header 
'X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/').


My reason for continuing this issue is so anyone new to this project who sees the option on 
your webpage of using Gmane to read and post to the mailing lists will be able to do so. There 
is no indication that they have to subscribe to the list twice, once at Gmane and again to the 
mailing list itself. There is no need to do so. Subscribing through Gmane would be sufficient.



Why do you insist on the necessity of unsubscribed postings through Gmane?


They are subscribed at Gmane. It is redundant to have to subscribe twice.


Indeed there should be no need to do so.


I could imagine that we will be able to change this once we stopped fighting the much more 
important topics at the beginning of the Foundation's existence.


I am only trying to clear up some apparent misunderstandings about Gmane and make it easier for 
people to participate in the project.



--
-

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:  http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:


On 2010/10/09 3:47 PM Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Larry Gusaas schrieb:

Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it
properly in the first place?


Because it's an external resource. Mailing lists are the center of
our community's activity, so we can't give away it's maintenance
again (we saw what happened in the past).


What would you be giving away?


Maintenance and control over the content of the archives. Will Gnome
store them for tenths of years? at the same place?


As for the past, I do not know what you mean.


In this case it is not easy to discuss this topic with you, because you
don't know about the necessities for our mailing lists either.

The OpenOffice.org lists have been hosted by CollabNet, that had
restrictions in list management (language dependent information mails
just to mention one point). We asked them several times for
improvements, but changes have been very hard to achieve (if at all).


Gmane is the simplest way to follow OOo groups and would be the
simplest way to follow this and other LibreOffice lists without
having to deal with a ton of emails every day.


Please consider, that this position is your own personal opinion.
Many other people think differently. I need to download the mails, 
because I have to work offline some time. Others have very limited and 
unreliable online connections.


Gmane is probably not the simplest way to manage mailing list even if 
you consider it to be the best way for you to read them.


So I don't understand why you insist on this point instead of just 
unsubscribing and re-subscribing with the nomail-option that allows you 
to send to the list (via Gmane or directly) without receiving *any* of 
the list mails.


Are you referring to the problem of unsubscribed posters on OOo?


No

[...]



So please tell them or change the information, if you can do it on
your own.


I have no authority to do anything for Document Foundation.


You don't need to have any authority to ask Gmane to add a phrase to the 
list information.


You are part of the community and you are not only allowed to discuss 
your thoughts on our lists, but to help the community to grow and work 
on their main directive: To create the best and most used free office 
suite in the world.


This doesn't mean that you have the right to tell anybody that your 
opinion is the official position of the Document Foundation.


But you have the right to talk inside and outside of the community about 
the Document Foundation and LibreOffice.


You are very well allowed to inform Gmane, that (at least at the moment) 
it is necessary to subscribe to the mailing lists if you want to send 
messages. But you should add, that this is very easy, because if people 
subscribe via discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org they will 
not receive any mail from the list.



I did
send Gmane an email, according to the following instructions on
http://gmane.org/post.php:

If, however, the group is neither read-only nor non-public, Gmane
will forward the message to the mailing list (after going through
the authorization process described above). The message still might
not be accepted by the mailing list. This is usually because the list
 really is non-public,


In our case this is assumption is wrong: It just needs a subscription on 
it's own.



[...]


I don't have the time to do so and it seems to be much more
important to you.


It is important that people who prefer to use Gmane instead of
receiving emails be able to do so simply. I originally subscribed to
the email list. When Gmane became available, I started using it and
unsubscribed to the list. When I couldn't post through Gmane I
re-subscribed to the list. Later I unsubscribed again and then
subscribed to the nomail list.


So you already have got what you want: Reading through Gmane, posting to 
the list and not getting any mail from the list.


Why do you insist on the necessity of unsubscribed postings through Gmane?

The following point is the only one I think should be worked on in short 
time:


There is no indication on your webpage or on Gmane to indicate that
you have to subscribe to the mailing list to post through Gmane, as
I stated before.


So we need to put this information there. I'll try to reach one of the 
website managers to add this line and I asked you to do so at the Gmane 
side.



Indeed there should be no need to do so.


I could imagine that we will be able to change this once we stopped 
fighting the much more important topics at the beginning of the 
Foundation's existence.


If you don't know by now: All the activities in the foundation have to 
be done by volunteers in their spare time. So please bare with us, if we 
can't do everything at the same time.


Having to jump through hoops like this and getting responses like
yours lowers my desire to have any thing to do with Document
Foundation


I'm sorry to hear that, because I took much more of my time t

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Florian Effenberger]

Larry,

Larry Gusaas wrote on 2010-10-10 03.14:

Having to jump through hoops like this and getting responses like yours
lowers my desire to have any thing to do with Document Foundation


please understand that we're all working hard on making things happen. 
As you can imagine, a lot of things happen at the moment, and issues 
with GMANE are really low-priority.


I already dropped them an e-mail and will see what I can do, but it 
won't speed up things if we hear sentences like above.


So, everyone, stay relaxed and tuned for the things to come!

Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880
Fax: +49 8341 99660889
Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/09 3:47 PM  Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Larry Gusaas schrieb:

Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it properly
in the first place?


Because it's an external resource. Mailing lists are the center of our community's activity, 
so we can't give away it's maintenance again (we saw what happened in the past).


What would you be giving away? As for the past, I do not know what you mean. Gmane is the 
simplest way to follow OOo groups and would be the simplest way to follow this and other 
LibreOffice lists without having to deal with a ton of emails every day.


Are you referring to the problem of unsubscribed posters on OOo? That is a completely different 
issue.


Installing the Gmane lists took nearly one week - how should we have communicated after the 
announcement of the foundation?


Nowhere on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss or
on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ does it indicate that
you have to subscribe to the mailing list in order to post through Gmane.


So please tell them or change the information, if you can do it on your own.


I have no authority to do anything for Document Foundation.
I did send Gmane an email, according to the following instructions on 
http://gmane.org/post.php:

   If, however, the group is neither read-only nor non-public, Gmane will 
forward the message
   to the mailing list (after going through the authorization process described 
above). The
   message still might not be accepted by the mailing list. This is usually 
because the list
   really is non-public, but isn't marked as such in Gmane. If this happens to 
you, please
   send a short mail stating which group is affected to the Gmane 
administrators, and we'll
   fix the configuration.



I don't have the time to do so and it seems to be much more important to you.


It is important that people who prefer to use Gmane instead of receiving emails be able to do 
so simply. I originally subscribed to the email list. When Gmane became available, I started 
using it and unsubscribed to the list. When I couldn't post through Gmane I re-subscribed to 
the list. Later I unsubscribed again and then subscribed to the nomail list.


There is no indication on your webpage or on Gmane to indicate that you have to subscribe to 
the mailing list to post through Gmane, as I stated before. Indeed there should be no need to 
do so.


Having to jump through hoops like this and getting responses like yours lowers my desire to 
have any thing to do with Document Foundation



In fact Gmane explicitly states that you can post, both on the web page,
"Status posting allowed" and in the email Gmane sends after you
subscribe through this list through gmane "You are now authorized to
post to the gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss newsgroup."


As it was mentioned in two postings in this thread, this information should be 
changed at Gmane.

Could you please take care of this task?


I do not have any authority to do so.


--
-

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:  http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Friedrich Strohmaier]

Hi Larry, *,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:

>Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it
> properly in the first place?

for the others which want to read by nntp and don't worry to be
subscribed. -- Just ignore it! :o))

>Nowhere on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss
> or on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ does it
> indicate that you have to subscribe to the mailing list in order to
> post through Gmane.

Yes, this might be a good idea. Meanwhile just subscribe in nomail mode

discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org so 

- You are subscribed
- don't get mails

[..]

Gruß/regards
-- 
Friedrich

Ansprechpartner / contact person for the "PrOOo-Box"
german language "best Office Suite ever" and more on CD/DVD 
http://prooo-box.org  -- footer updated on 2010-10-07



-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Bernhard Dippold]

Larry Gusaas schrieb:


On 2010/10/09 11:46 AM Bernhard Dippold wrote:

If we are able to work with normal workload, allowing postings from
Gmane would be a topic.

As it was possible at OpenOffice.org, I'm quite sure it would be
possible for our lists too.

But please let's pend this topic for some more weeks - it is *not* the
most important thing Florian has to do now.


Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it properly
in the first place?


Because it's an external resource. Mailing lists are the center of our 
community's activity, so we can't give away it's maintenance again (we 
saw what happened in the past).


Installing the Gmane lists took nearly one week - how should we have 
communicated after the announcement of the foundation?


Nowhere on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss or
on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ does it indicate that
you have to subscribe to the mailing list in order to post through Gmane.


So please tell them or change the information, if you can do it on your own.

I don't have the time to do so and it seems to be much more important to 
you.




In fact Gmane explicitly states that you can post, both on the web page,
"Status posting allowed" and in the email Gmane sends after you
subscribe through this list through gmane "You are now authorized to
post to the gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss newsgroup."


As it was mentioned in two postings in this thread, this information 
should be changed at Gmane.


Could you please take care of this task?

Best regards

Bernhard






--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[NoOp]

On 10/09/2010 03:36 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am 09.10.2010 um 05:20 schrieb NoOp:
> 
>> Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
>> shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does 
> the
>> email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list. 
> So
>> perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?
> 
> of course we do require subscription for people who want to subscribe to 
> mailing lists. Otherwise, we'd be the victim of spam very soon.
> 
> However, there is a nomail subscription you can use by using 
> listname+subscribe-nomail (e.g. 
> discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org). Then you can post, but 
> receive no messages.
> 
> Florian
> 

Thanks. Can a small note be added to the 'Mailing Lists' section of:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/
advising of the nomail option?

Regarding gmane.org & spam: last check shows that I am subscribed to 68
mailing lists via gmane.org. On occasion a spam may slip through, but
rarely. If a spam does get through it's easy enough to report to gmane.org.
  For example, your message:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/335
could be reported as spam via the 'Report this as spam' link at the
bottom right of the page. Once the msg is reported as spam, the msg is
vetted via:
http://gmane.org/faq.php

What happens when I click the "This is spam" button?
Your report is queued, and a gmane.org admin will later inspect your
report to see whether the message in question really does look like
spam. If the admin agrees that this is, indeed, spam, the article is
immediately removed from the web interface. At a later date, the article
is also cross-posted to the spam group, so that people using the news
interface will also be able to avoid seeing the spam.

This prevents folks from abusing the system by reporting someone's post
as spam simply because they don't like the msg, or the poster.

Additional checkpoints are also put in place by default:
http://gmane.org/spam.php
And optional email address obfuscation & encryption is available to
prevent spam harvesters:
http://gmane.org/tmda.php

One added note: spammers can easily subscribe to any list and slip in a
spam. However in the case of email lists only, it is up to the
administrator to detect & remove the address etc. gmane.org takes a lot
of this burden off the list admin by using the tools above.

Anyway, thanks for the nomail info/option. I've unsubscribed from the
regular list & have resubscribed using the nomail address. If this post
appears (via gmane.org) we'll know it works :-)




-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Bernhard Dippold wrote on 2010-10-09 19.38:


If you had read the other mails in this thread, you should have noticed
that the "nomail" option of the list allows to subscribe without being
sent any mail.

So why can't you accept this as workaround?


thanks Bernhard! Indeed, my workload is quite high at the moment. I just 
dropped the GMANE folks a note, asking how the posting w/o subscription 
works on their side.


Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880
Fax: +49 8341 99660889
Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/09 11:46 AM  Bernhard Dippold wrote:

If we are able to work with normal workload, allowing postings from Gmane would 
be a topic.

As it was possible at OpenOffice.org, I'm quite sure it would be possible for 
our lists too.

But please let's pend this topic for some more weeks - it is *not* the most important thing 
Florian has to do now.


Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it properly in the 
first place?

Nowhere on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss or on 
http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ does it indicate that you have to subscribe to 
the mailing list in order to post through Gmane.


In fact Gmane explicitly states that you can post, both on the web page, "Status   posting 
allowed" and in the email Gmane sends after you subscribe through this list through gmane "You 
are now authorized to post to the gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss newsgroup."



--
-

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:  http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Charles Marcus]

On 2010-10-09 1:18 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> Why would I want to receive emails from this list when I can read and
> reply through Gmane's News Server (NNTP) ?

???

What do you think NOMAIL means? If you subscribe to the nomail version,
you don't receive any emails.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:


On 2010/10/09 10:46 AM Florian Effenberger wrote:

[...]

on our side, only senders who are subscribed to the list can post to
it. I won't change this, as otherwise every spammer can just flood the
list with emails.

Florian


Allowing posting from Gmane without subscription to this list will not
allow spammers to flood the list. Gmane requires confirmation from
sender for each list the sender posts to. Also any spammer can be
reported and dealt with.

Perhaps you should look at Gmane spam policy
.


Please not now - Florian's to-do-list is higher than any mountain I know of.

If we are able to work with normal workload, allowing postings from 
Gmane would be a topic.


As it was possible at OpenOffice.org, I'm quite sure it would be 
possible for our lists too.


But please let's pend this topic for some more weeks - it is *not* the 
most important thing Florian has to do now.


When our wiki is set up, we should create a list with topics like this, 
so it is not forgotten, but can be handled later on.


Best regards

Bernhard

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:


On 2010/10/09 10:49 AM Bernhard Dippold wrote:

In my opinion Gmane posting is an additional nice-to-have feature,
that can be improved, when time allows it.
... especially if there is a workaround (subscribe-nomail) ...


That is not a workaround. The purpose of Gmane is to treat a email list
as a newsgroup so you do not always receive a ton of emails that you
have to delete after reading or ignoring. A newsgroup allows you to read
only the topics that interest you rather than downloading every message.


If you had read the other mails in this thread, you should have noticed 
that the "nomail" option of the list allows to subscribe without being 
sent any mail.


So why can't you accept this as workaround?



Why would I want to receive emails from this list when I can read and
reply through Gmane's News Server (NNTP) ?


You don't need to receive any mail. Just subscribe with "nomail" option 
as described by Florian:

http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg01130.html

Best regards
Bernhard

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/09 10:49 AM  Bernhard Dippold wrote:
In my opinion Gmane posting is an additional nice-to-have feature, that can be improved, when 
time allows it.
... especially if there is a workaround (subscribe-nomail) ... 


That is not a workaround. The purpose of Gmane is to treat a email list as a newsgroup so you 
do not always receive a ton of emails that you have to delete after reading or ignoring. A 
newsgroup allows you to read only the topics that interest you rather than downloading every 
message.


Why would I want to receive emails from this list when I can read and reply through Gmane's 
News Server (NNTP) ?



--
-

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:  http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/09 10:47 AM  Charles Marcus wrote:

I for one am glad that posting is only allowed by subscribers. Imho
there was far too much noise on the old OOo lists due to postings being
allowed by non-subscribers.


Agreed about the noise. However that has nothing to do with Gmane. The non-subscribe posters 
were not posting through Gmane. You have to be subscribed at Gmane for each list you post for. 
This serves the same purpose as subscribing directly to the email list.



--
-

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:  http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/09 10:46 AM  Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas wrote on 2010-10-09 18.36:


Gmane is a newsgroup. They require verification of the the sender before
they post the message. This serves the same purpose as subscribing to
this list. Any senders of spam can be removed.

It is redundant to require the user to subscribe to the mailing list in
order to post through Gmane. The page at
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss clearly
states "Status: posting allowed".

If subscription to the mailing list is required, it should be stated on
the Gmane page, although there is no real need to dual subscribe and
defeats the whole purpose of Gmane.


on our side, only senders who are subscribed to the list can post to it. I won't change this, 
as otherwise every spammer can just flood the list with emails.


Florian

Allowing posting from Gmane without subscription to this list will not allow spammers to flood 
the list. Gmane requires confirmation from sender for each list the sender posts to. Also any 
spammer can be reported and dealt with.


Perhaps you should look at Gmane spam policy 
.
I have not noticed any spam on the lists I follow that has been inserted through Gmane. There 
is no more likelihood of spam being sent through Gmane than through subscribing to this mailing 
list.


I follow many mailing lists through Gmane, including several OOo lists. The first time I post 
to any list I receive an email stating:


   "You have sent a message to be posted on the
   gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss newsgroup.

   Before the message is posted on the newsgroup, you have
   to confirm that you exist.  Just reply to this message, and
   the message will be posted."

After replying I receive a message:

   "You are now authorized to post to the
   gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss newsgroup.

   The original message you sent to the newsgroup will be
   posted within ten minutes."

Except this does not occur on this list unless I subscribe to the email list.






--
_


 Larry I. Gusaas

* Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:   http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese *



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:


On 2010/10/09 4:36 AM Florian Effenberger wrote:

[...]
of course we do require subscription for people who want to subscribe to
mailing lists. Otherwise, we'd be the victim of spam very soon.


Gmane is a newsgroup. They require verification of the the sender before
they post the message. This serves the same purpose as subscribing to
this list. Any senders of spam can be removed.

> [...]


If subscription to the mailing list is required, it should be stated on
the Gmane page, although there is no real need to dual subscribe and
defeats the whole purpose of Gmane.


For the OpenOffice.org mailing lists sending without extra subscription 
via Gmane became enabled just four or five years ago.


I don't know about the background - perhaps someone here remembers...

But please let us establish our own infrastructure first.

In my opinion Gmane posting is an additional nice-to-have feature, that 
can be improved, when time allows it.

... especially if there is a workaround (subscribe-nomail) ...

If someone is able to edit the status (to "Status: posting allowed after 
subscription ") this 
would be great.


Best regards

Bernhard

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Charles Marcus]

On 2010-10-09 12:36 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> It is redundant to require the user to subscribe to the mailing list in
> order to post through Gmane. The page at
> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss clearly
> states "Status: posting allowed".
>
> If subscription to the mailing list is required, it should be stated on
> the Gmane page,

Agreed... something like:

Posting allowed by subscribers only (click here to subscribe to the
nomail version of the list)

Does gmane allow this text to be cusomized like that?

> although there is no real need to dual subscribe and defeats the
> whole purpose of Gmane.

No it doesn't... you can subscribe to the nomail version, then use gmane
to read and post.

I for one am glad that posting is only allowed by subscribers. Imho
there was far too much noise on the old OOo lists due to postings being
allowed by non-subscribers.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas wrote on 2010-10-09 18.36:


Gmane is a newsgroup. They require verification of the the sender before
they post the message. This serves the same purpose as subscribing to
this list. Any senders of spam can be removed.

It is redundant to require the user to subscribe to the mailing list in
order to post through Gmane. The page at
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss clearly
states "Status: posting allowed".

If subscription to the mailing list is required, it should be stated on
the Gmane page, although there is no real need to dual subscribe and
defeats the whole purpose of Gmane.


on our side, only senders who are subscribed to the list can post to it. 
I won't change this, as otherwise every spammer can just flood the list 
with emails.


Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880
Fax: +49 8341 99660889
Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2010/10/09 4:36 AM  Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hi,

Am 09.10.2010 um 05:20 schrieb NoOp:


Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does

the

email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list.

So

perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?

of course we do require subscription for people who want to subscribe to
mailing lists. Otherwise, we'd be the victim of spam very soon.


Gmane is a newsgroup. They require verification of the the sender before they post the message. 
This serves the same purpose as subscribing to this list. Any senders of spam can be removed.


It is redundant to require the user to subscribe to the mailing list in order to post through 
Gmane. The page at
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss clearly states "Status: posting 
allowed".


If subscription to the mailing list is required, it should be stated on the Gmane page, 
although there is no real need to dual subscribe and defeats the whole purpose of Gmane.



--
_


 Larry I. Gusaas

* Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
Website:   http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese *



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-09 06:36, Florian Effenberger a écrit :

Hi,

Am 09.10.2010 um 05:20 schrieb NoOp:


Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does

the

email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list.

So

perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?


of course we do require subscription for people who want to subscribe to
mailing lists. Otherwise, we'd be the victim of spam very soon.

However, there is a nomail subscription you can use by using
listname+subscribe-nomail (e.g.
discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org). Then you can post, but
receive no messages.

Florian



Thanks.

Marc

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Am 09.10.2010 um 05:20 schrieb NoOp:

> Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
> shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does
the
> email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list.
So
> perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?

of course we do require subscription for people who want to subscribe to
mailing lists. Otherwise, we'd be the victim of spam very soon.

However, there is a nomail subscription you can use by using
listname+subscribe-nomail (e.g.
discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org). Then you can post, but
receive no messages.

Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880
Fax: +49 8341 99660889
Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-09 01:01, NoOp a écrit :

On 10/08/2010 09:24 PM, Marc Paré wrote:
...

Oops, I am not sure how long it takes for the process to remove me. I
just got my posted message through the mailist. Still not un-subscribed
yet. I'll give it another 15 minutes or so.

Marc



My guess is that it didn't work&  that you'll need to resubscribe to the
list before any reply via gmane.org is accepted. I'll send you a note
off list so that we can test independently without causing too much
noise in this thread.




I'm back and had to re-subscribed. You are right, you do have to be 
subscribed to use the Gmane.


Marc

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[NoOp]

On 10/08/2010 09:24 PM, Marc Paré wrote:
...
> Oops, I am not sure how long it takes for the process to remove me. I 
> just got my posted message through the mailist. Still not un-subscribed 
> yet. I'll give it another 15 minutes or so.
> 
> Marc
> 

My guess is that it didn't work & that you'll need to resubscribe to the
list before any reply via gmane.org is accepted. I'll send you a note
off list so that we can test independently without causing too much
noise in this thread.


-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-09 00:15, Marc Paré a écrit :



Questions for Marc (and others on the list:
1. are you also subscribed to the list via the standard email
discuss+subscr...@documentfoundation.org?


Hi Gary, I was and just this minute un-subscribed. I like being
subscribed as I like to guage the traffic on the mailist. I usually
delete (zero) my mailist messages around 12 midnight.


2. if you unsubscribe to the list can you still post to the list via
gmane.org?


This is a post sent via gmane. If you get this post then, yes, I can
post without being subscribed.



Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does the
email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list. So
perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?

Gary (NoOp)



It would be strange behaviour if it did.

Marc




Oops, I am not sure how long it takes for the process to remove me. I 
just got my posted message through the mailist. Still not un-subscribed 
yet. I'll give it another 15 minutes or so.


Marc

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Marc Paré]

Questions for Marc (and others on the list:
1. are you also subscribed to the list via the standard email
discuss+subscr...@documentfoundation.org?


Hi Gary, I was and just this minute un-subscribed. I like being 
subscribed as I like to guage the traffic on the mailist. I usually 
delete (zero) my mailist messages around 12 midnight.



2. if you unsubscribe to the list can you still post to the list via
gmane.org?


This is a post sent via gmane. If you get this post then, yes, I can 
post without being subscribed.




Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does the
email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list. So
perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?

Gary (NoOp)



It would be strange behaviour if it did.

Marc


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[NoOp]

On 10/08/2010 07:40 PM, Marc Paré wrote:
> Le 2010-10-08 20:33, NoOp a écrit :
>> On 10/06/2010 06:12 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> finally, this list is also available via GMANE:
>>> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss
>>>
>>> Florian
>>>
>>
>> Working?
>>
>>
> 
> Works for me on Thunderbird as my newsreader.
> 
> Marc
> 

Thanks. I just tested and found that in order to post via gmane.org/nntp
you must be subscribed to the mail list via the standard email subscribe
(discuss+subscr...@documentfoundation.org).

I tested by unsubscribing (discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org),
going through the confirmation, and then attempted to reply to you via
gmane.org - the post didn't go through. So I resubscribed and am now
posting via gmane.org.

If the lists require that you first be subscribed to the list via email
in order to post via gmane.org then it somewhat defeats the purpose of
gmane.org - e.g., use nntp so that email bandwidth isn't used.

With the permission of Florian & the list I'd like to continue to use
this thread temporarily for further testing msgs until the issue is
sorted out.

Questions for Marc (and others on the list:
1. are you also subscribed to the list via the standard email
discuss+subscr...@documentfoundation.org?
2. if you unsubscribe to the list can you still post to the list via
gmane.org?

Like the OOo lists (and other gmane.org lists), posts via gmane.org
shouldn't also require a direct email subscription as gmane.org does the
email verification directly before allowing a user to post to a list. So
perhaps some added tuning with gmane.org is necessary?

Gary (NoOp)



-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-08 20:33, NoOp a écrit :

On 10/06/2010 06:12 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hi,

finally, this list is also available via GMANE:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss

Florian



Working?




Works for me on Thunderbird as my newsreader.

Marc

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Florian Effenberger]

It does for me?

Am 09.10.2010 um 02:33 schrieb NoOp:

> Working?


-- 
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880
Fax: +49 8341 99660889
Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff


-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[NoOp]

On 10/06/2010 06:12 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> finally, this list is also available via GMANE:
> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss
> 
> Florian
> 

Working?


-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/

Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-06 09:12, Florian Effenberger a écrit :

Hi,

finally, this list is also available via GMANE:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss

Florian



Merci Florian:

I am writing you from the nntp and it works well.

Marc

--
To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to 
discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted.
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/