[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
After you've worked with the menu for more than 4 hours it might make a lot more sense to you, and you might see the thought that has gone into its evolution over the years. What is obvious for you (talk radio is important, LMA is "pointless") is the exact opposite for other users. Why would users in Ireland naturally think to look for Irish music under "International"? I suggest that you make good use of the Favorites menu in both slimserver and SqueezeNetwork. It's a quick way to get at the stations you like most. Enjoy your new SB3. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
Sorry to bump my own reply, but in my earlier post I neglected to mention the obvious: many of the issues/suggestions seem to pertain to RadioTime, which Slim Devices has no control over. This certainly pertains to dead URLs, and quite possibly the menu structure as well. So it would make sense to share your observations with them (www.radiotime.com) if you haven't already. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
Actually, my complaints are based on well over 4 hours of working with the "SqueezeBox 3" menu and submenus. I think thats obvious from my exhaustive review. Are any of the facts I described wrong? Do any of the urls I describe as non working actually work? Does anybody think its great that all the personality driven talk shows are scattered among half a dozen subsubsubgroups? I have every right to expect Slim Devices to provide reliable content, either directly or through a chosen provider. Slim Devices should at least be aware that this problem exists, and I see it as a problem. You certainly havent convinced me that scattering Personality driven talk shows among half a dozen sub-sub-sub groups is in any way practical. I always think its strange that talk shows would be broken down by political ideology, because people just want interesting talk. It would make more sense to group radio talk shows based on headers like family oriented, slightly vulgar, very vulgar, etc, or the maturity level of the show. Because all talk shows present many points of view, and are ultimately for entertainment purposes anyway. Even most political talk shows are ultimately not really political, so the conservative/liberal or whatever labels are, ultimately, meaningless. And all talk shows are issues oriented, so its misguided to have a subsubsubcategory called Issues. Its like having a subgroup called Audio, or Vocal. And frankly, its fraudulent to have entire subcategories for which there are no working urls. Aside from whos to blame, dont you agree that its fraudulent? At what point do you think its a problem? I simply think were at that point. Aside from who is to blame, the menu system at RadioTime is badly organized, at least in terms of usability with the SqueezeBox, which, obviously, is limited to a more linear presentation, unlike a website, where the eye can wander and see more. Evidently the RadioTime menu system doesn't lend itself to the SqueezeBox, maybe we can at least agree on this. If youre a regular user of the RadioTime website, you would, of course, have an advantage when perusing the same groups on the Squeezebox. And this is good to know! SlimDesign should provide this advice in their user manual that is the least they can do. If there is some insight that can be provided, tips, for using the various options of the menu system, these should be included in the SqueezeBox user manual, or SlimDesigns website they do not do this such information is not readily available, and it should be. It is not sufficient that I discover such things, by accident, months after investing in a SlimDevices audio device. Certainly SlimDevices is neglectful in this regard. Imagine buying a car, and long after its been parked in a garage, discovering that it can be driven. And clearly the menu system at RadioTime hasnt evolved intelligently. Its as if the initial designer left the company and their replacement created a new category for some new talk show, rather than add it to the existing, appropriate category (too many chefs in the kitchen), so the intelligent design of the menu system is definitely, obviously, questionable. This is clearly demonstrated by Don Imuss show being off in his own subsubsubcategory, and also by the existence of not 1 but about 6 Sirius satellite radio stations, which is fraudulent. Its as if the menu designer took home his laptop and his kids started adding stations as a goof - did this happen? This clearly demonstrates an obvious lack of integrity to the menu system, and Slim Design should at least be aware of this serious problem, and are, to a degree, responsible. All urls in the menu system should work, or at least be "valid". That only about 5-10% work is indefensible. -- NauticusLX NauticusLX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8981 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
I hope you're complaining just as loudly to Microsoft, Opera, and Mozilla for creating browsers which also let you access such "fraudulent" content. Let's not get too crazy here. Remember, Squeezenetwork is a FREE service, the primary purpose of which is to let you access your favorite internet radio stations without having to have a computer running. It does this pretty well. Just because slimdevices allows you access to many great services out there doesn't mean they have a responsibility to write a complete user manual on how to use those services, or fix all of their flaws. I'm just thankful that someone took the time to write a radiotime parser so that I can use it at all. Is there another device out there that does this? -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
NauticusLX;166330 Wrote: > Actually, my complaints are based on well over 4 hours of working with > the "SqueezeBox 3" menu and submenus. I think thats obvious from my > exhaustive review. Are any of the facts I described wrong? Do any of > the urls I describe as non working actually work? Does anybody think > its great that all the personality driven talk shows are scattered > among half a dozen subsubsubgroups? > > I have every right to expect Slim Devices to provide reliable content, > either directly or through a chosen provider. Slim Devices should at > least be aware that this problem exists, and I see it as a problem. > You certainly havent convinced me that scattering Personality driven > talk shows among half a dozen sub-sub-sub groups is in any way > practical. I always think its strange that talk shows would be broken > down by political ideology, because people just want interesting talk. > It would make more sense to group radio talk shows based on headers like > family oriented, slightly vulgar, very vulgar, etc, or the maturity > level of the show. Because all talk shows present many points of view, > and are ultimately for entertainment purposes anyway. Even most > political talk shows are ultimately not really political, so the > conservative/liberal or whatever labels are, ultimately, meaningless. > And all talk shows are issues oriented, so its misguided to have a > subsubsubcategory called Issues. Its like having a subgroup called > Audio, or Vocal. And frankly, its fraudulent to have entire > subcategories for which there are no working urls. Aside from whos to > blame, dont you agree that its fraudulent? At what point do you think > its a problem? I simply think were at that point. Aside from who > is to blame, the menu system at RadioTime is badly organized, at least > in terms of usability with the SqueezeBox, which, obviously, is limited > to a more linear presentation, unlike a website, where the eye can > wander and see more. Evidently the RadioTime menu system doesn't lend > itself to the SqueezeBox, maybe we can at least agree on this. > > If youre a regular user of the RadioTime website, you would, of > course, have an advantage when perusing the same groups on the > Squeezebox. And this is good to know! SlimDesign should provide this > advice in their user manual that is the least they can do. If there > is some insight that can be provided, tips, for using the various > options of the menu system, these should be included in the SqueezeBox > user manual, or SlimDesigns website they do not do this such > information is not readily available, and it should be. It is not > sufficient that I discover such things, by accident, months after > investing in a SlimDevices audio device. Certainly SlimDevices is > neglectful in this regard. Imagine buying a car, and long after its > been parked in a garage, discovering that it can be driven. > > And clearly the menu system at RadioTime hasnt evolved intelligently. > Its as if the initial designer left the company and their replacement > created a new category for some new talk show, rather than add it to > the existing, appropriate category (too many chefs in the kitchen), so > the intelligent design of the menu system is definitely, obviously, > questionable. This is clearly demonstrated by Don Imuss show > being off in his own subsubsubcategory, and also by the existence of > not 1 but about 6 Sirius satellite radio stations, which is fraudulent. > Its as if the menu designer took home his laptop and his kids started > adding stations as a goof - did this happen? This clearly demonstrates > an obvious lack of integrity to the menu system, and Slim Design should > at least be aware of this serious problem, and are, to a degree, > responsible. All urls in the menu system should work, or at least be > "valid". That only about 5-10% work is indefensible. 4 hours is hardly a great deal of time. People who've been using it for a long time have times in the thousands, or even 10s of thousands. Slim devices is simply not responsible for the state of others' content-- as far as I can see, the slim stuff is pretty much a passthrough for that stuff. They _do_ have commercial deals (with, eg, pandora), and I would expect the interfaces related to those to work better. As far as those being "serious issues", here we are coming to the crux of the matter. Slim is (or at least was) a small company trying to cater to a large and diverse customer community. There are probably as many (or more) people like me who couldn't care less about where some talk radio show comes up in a menu, but would be interested in faster scanning, integration of a room control system, and any number of other enhancements and bug-fixes than there are people who care where imus is. -- totoro squeezebox 3 -> mccormack dna .5 -> audio physic tempo 4 ---
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
NauticusLX;166330 Wrote:
> Actually, my complaints are based on well over 4 hours of working with
> the "SqueezeBox 3" menu and submenus. I think thats obvious from my
> exhaustive review. Are any of the facts I described wrong? Do any of
> the urls I describe as non working actually work? Does anybody think
> its great that all the personality driven talk shows are scattered
> among half a dozen subsubsubgroups?
The only talk show I listen to is Car Talk... so no clue what others
would want.
>
> I have every right to expect Slim Devices to provide reliable content,
> either directly or through a chosen provider.
You can expect whatever you want: whether that is a realistic or fair
expectation is another matter.
>
> Slim Devices should at least be aware that this problem exists, and I
> see it as a problem.
>
So the problem is "I don't like how RadioTime works"... since all of
this is directed at the organizition of RadioTime.
See, IMHO, Slim does a couple good things with -any- link they provide
in their software: they provide free PR to whoever they link to and
they provide More Choice to listeners. The PR provides traffic to the
site which (if they have any sort of business model at all) brings them
closer to whatever their model is and will allow for growth. The choice
to listeners is always good, it encourages competition between start
ups.
Internet Radio is still a very niche market and has no stable listing
of what is available: ie, there is no Google-for-net-radio. There will
have to be something at some point .. a sort of generalized interface
for finding radio, but would you want to find it based on Geography ("I
grew up listening to X105! I miss that station") or format (ohh, and
that is gonna be fun.. what exactly is "rock" and "aor" and "top40" and
"pop"... Did I mention I get annoyed whenever I choose "Soul," expecting
James Brown or Otis Redding and end up with DJ Somebody?)
There are several sites trying with various levels of success to
organize radio. Not just RadioTime, there is Shoutcast and Live365 and
PublicRadioFan... ironically PublicRadioFan is my favorite. But the
others may at some point get more consistent in their reliability and
formatting. RadioTime seems to be doing the most work in their
categorizing.
At any rate: this sort of work is not the forte of Slim: it is the
forte of some other startup that wants to be the Google of Netradio --
not selling hardware or software, but making money on the service of
matching listeners to content.
> Imagine buying a car, and long after its been parked in a garage,
> discovering that it can be driven.
No, imagine buing a car, and long after it's been parked in a garage,
discovering that it has all sorts of parks on the GPS unit... and you
can.. drive to them for a picnic.
If you want to use odd analogies, be consistent. If Slim is selling
you a car, and the service is a GPS then the -destination- is
someone else's problem. It's not GM's fault that some parks charge for
parking or that some gang decided it would be a fun place to tag or that
the homeless now occupy it...
> This clearly demonstrates an obvious lack of integrity to the menu
> system, and Slim Design should at least be aware of this serious
> problem, and are, to a degree, responsible. All urls in the menu
> system should work, or at least be "valid". That only about 5-10% work
> is indefensible.
... i hope you mean "integrity" as in Quality Assurance and
Reliability, not fraud. It is hardly fraudulent to link to a site that
happens to link to a site that has since died. As far as QA goes, alas,
on the 'net sites coming and going is far too common. Validating them
routinely is very difficult. Google keeps dead links around for ages.
Just disable the menu item if it annoys you that much.
Did I mention that it sucks when my GPS system tells me where a
restaurant is, and I find out that the owners of the restaurant are
lunatics and keep the most nonsensical hours ever?
--
snarlydwarf
snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127
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[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
NauticusLX;166330 Wrote: > Actually, my complaints are based on well over 4 hours of working with > the "SqueezeBox 3" menu and submenus. I think thats obvious from my > exhaustive review. exhausting != exhaustive > Are any of the facts I described wrong? Do any of the urls I describe > as non working actually work? I did not, and will not, try to verify any of your claims. For my listening habits (which are fairly diverse) I've never really seen the value added of RealTime, and your review just confirms that. As I suggested, take the complaints/suggestions to RadioTime. They are the ones who can do something about it, not the Slim Devices users' forum. > Does anybody think its great that all the personality driven talk shows > are scattered among half a dozen subsubsubgroups? Couldn't care less, and again, it's RadioTime's problem. As others have commented, it's like blaming Google for dead links every obscure un-maintained website out there. As for scattered personality-driven talk radio like Martha & Howard, if you don't like the way they're scattered, put the ones you want in your Favorites list, and group them in some sensible way. It's really pretty easy. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
SnarlyDwarf, thanks for your response. You did recommend something that may be useful to me and others. Specifically, how can I disable a menu item in RadioTime? I didn't know this was possible. Also, rather than a Google for radio stations, a much simpler strategy, to address the RadioTime "maze" problem, would be to simply rearrange the menu items as they appear in the SqueezeBox - I would expect a tool to do this would appear before a Google for radio. -- NauticusLX NauticusLX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8981 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
NauticusLX;166858 Wrote: > SnarlyDwarf, thanks for your response. You did recommend something that > may be useful to me and others. Specifically, how can I disable a menu > item in RadioTime? I didn't know this was possible. You can't any more than you can disable something in Yahoo's Directory or the Open Directory Project you can just remove your bookmark to RadioTime if you don't like it. All the stuff you see under the RadioTime menu is what is on http://www.radiotime.com, the -exact- same layout... why? Because, as you move through the menu, that is fetched from their site. Your Squeezebox becomes a very simple web browser Which is exactly why I say that if you don't like what RadioTime has to offer, why go there? I dislike http://directory.google.com/ ... so I don't use it. I don't have it my Bookmark menu, so I just don't see it. > > Also, rather than a Google for radio stations, a much simpler strategy, > to address the RadioTime "maze" problem, would be to simply rearrange > the menu items as they appear in the SqueezeBox - I would expect a tool > to do this would appear before a Google for radio. ... Rearranging is for RadioTime to do. Again, what you see in the SB is just a stripped down version of their web page. Slimdevices can't change the Radiotime web page. They merely link to it. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
Heh :) you're right, i agree. === Card games is my nature, Can you tell me the game for me? Reveal your future, tarot reading www.tarotcard-psychic.com -- yelena66 yelena66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9136 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31127 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Main Menu needs a rework
On 1/1/07, NauticusLX < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Actually, my complaints are based on well over 4 hours of working with the "SqueezeBox 3" menu and submenus. I think that's obvious from my exhaustive review. Are any of the facts I described wrong? Do any of the urls I describe as non working actually work? Does anybody think it's great that all the personality driven talk shows are scattered among half a dozen subsubsubgroups? The key word in your message is exhaustive. I think you need to learn to be a bit more succinct in your suggestions. While you may feel you are being thorough and well-reasoned, I simply skipped over your message because I don't have ten minutes to devote to it. The SlimDevices team may or may not read each message posted to the forums. If you want them to read your messages (rather than the enthusiasts on this group), then you should probably send it directly to the company. Happy new year, Ben ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
