Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
usch;594944 Wrote: I have also replied to this numerous times. ;) The VFDs weren't a catalog item, but custom made by Noritake especially for SlimDevices / Logitech. If they are no longer being manufactured then probably because Logitech doesn't order them anymore, so this argument doesn't count. I think Noritake would be happy to make another batch. They still do produce VFDs, it's their main business after all. http://www.noritake-itron.com/pages/vfdglassgraphic.htm Allright, I stand corrected. It's a good thing they still make them then! -Skinny -- Skinny This sentence says less than a list of audio equipment. Skinny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
If all else fails and money doesn't matter, it should be possible to get a custom made display compatible with the SB2, SB3, Classic, and Transporter, but you might have to order a whole shipload. The page I linked to only mentions 500 pcs per year, no grand total. It would be interesting what the minimum quantity for a custom VFD is. -- usch usch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33389 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
Skinny;594687 Wrote: This has been discussed numerous times before, although some may have missed it. Discontinuing the Classic was not entirely a Logitech decision, as the VF display used is no longer being manufactured. I have also replied to this numerous times. ;) The VFDs weren't a catalog item, but custom made by Noritake especially for SlimDevices / Logitech. If they are no longer being manufactured then probably because Logitech doesn't order them anymore, so this argument doesn't count. I think Noritake would be happy to make another batch. They still do produce VFDs, it's their main business after all. http://www.noritake-itron.com/pages/vfdglassgraphic.htm -- usch usch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33389 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593796 Wrote: So after 5 years, several house moves and general abuse my Classic has died (endless rebooting cycle which my troubleshooting-fu has failed to solve). Am I crazy for buying another Classic instead of a Touch?!Not at all, IMO. I'm actually quite dissatisfied with Logitech stopping production of the Classic. Readability from a distance has always been my foremost consideration when evaluating different units. SB1, SB2, Classic and Boom got it right. Touch and Radio didn't. I dread the day when my SB2 will die, as I won't know how to substitute it in the HTPC rack... :(alfista;593893 Wrote: If it's beyond repair, I'd say there's nothing wrong with buying a Classic if you're happy with it. There seems to be some new in stock and it's likely to be the last chance of getting an unused Classic.Where?!? -- gorman gorman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
gorman;594598 Wrote: Where?!? See this thread http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83542 -- alfista alfista's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32396 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
This has been discussed numerous times before, although some may have missed it. Discontinuing the Classic was not entirely a Logitech decision, as the VF display used is no longer being manufactured. It was too expensive (the VFD), power hungry and what not. I'm not saying they would not have replaced the Classic anyway, but as it is now, they couldn't possibly have continued it. This is just what I've read around here earlier. For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of the cool look of the display on my Boom. It has a serious no-nonsense look and feel to it. I'm not sure that can be said of the SP generation. Great players, nonetheless. -Skinny -- Skinny This sentence says less than a list of audio equipment. Skinny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
erland;593871 Wrote: What are you missing ? Good question. My biggest gripe was the Now Playing screen, but I think that has already been resolved by your Custom Clock screensaver now. What I am still missing is a more customizable Home menu. On my IP3K players I have Favorites at the very top, right next to Now Playing. On the SqueezePlay devices it is all the way down and off the screen. There should be a way to rearrange the order of the menu items, like on the old players. I also miss the RSS News Ticker screensaver. The feeds can still be accessed through Extras Information Browser, but it would be nice to have the text scrolling by. I just noticed there is an rsstext item type in the Custom Clock settings. If I can figure out how to use it, it might do what I want. -- usch usch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33389 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
usch;593890 Wrote: Good question. My biggest gripe was the Now Playing screen, but I think that has already been resolved by your Custom Clock screensaver now. What I am still missing is a more customizable Home menu. On my IP3K players I have Favorites at the very top, right next to Now Playing. On the SqueezePlay devices it is all the way down and off the screen. There should be a way to rearrange the order of the menu items, like on the old players. I also miss the RSS News Ticker screensaver. The feeds can still be accessed through Extras Information Browser, but it would be nice to have the text scrolling by. I just noticed there is an rsstext item type in the Custom Clock settings. If I can figure out how to use it, it might do what I want. Hmm in 7.6 we can now rearrange menu items with the context menu, so this is improved -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) PLEASE FIX BUG 112 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=112 Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593796 Wrote: So after 5 years, several house moves and general abuse my Classic has died (endless rebooting cycle which my troubleshooting-fu has failed to solve). Assuming you have tried factory resets and other operations of that kind there are a few more things you could try. 1) See if you can borrow a power supply from someone, if it turns out to be the cause of the problem it shouldn't be difficult sourcing a replacement. 2) A weak point seems to be the WiFi board, quite a few people has been able to resurrect their Classics by removing and/or replacing them. Disassemble and remove the WiFi-board and see if it works that way. If it does it might be possible to find replacement boards on eBay, unless you're happy with using it wired of course. If it's beyond repair, I'd say there's nothing wrong with buying a Classic if you're happy with it. There seems to be some new in stock and it's likely to be the last chance of getting an unused Classic. -- alfista alfista's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32396 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
So after 5 years, several house moves and general abuse my Classic has died (endless rebooting cycle which my troubleshooting-fu has failed to solve). Am I crazy for buying another Classic instead of a Touch?! I gather the sound quality from the Touch is better (I've got a touch of tinnitus and ageing ears anyway!). Not fussed about the touch screen. A colour screen would look a bit weird right next to the television, whilst I love the VFD display and general form factor of the Classic. Of course, a warranty on the 'new' Classic is out the question so it's fingers crossed on this point. I'm not meaning to start a tedious Classic vs Touch thread - I can see the Touch is a 'better' product (although not quite a like-for-like replacement in my view)... I just felt a bit sad when I found out the Classic wasn't officially for sale anymore (no, I don't manage to visit these forums regularly enough otherwise I'd have known this ages ago - but the Classic generally worked too well to need to!). It's not a coincidence I also drive a 10 year old car ;) -- ehjones ehjones's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5218 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593796 Wrote: So after 5 years, several house moves and general abuse my Classic has died (endless rebooting cycle which my troubleshooting-fu has failed to solve). Am I crazy for buying another Classic instead of a Touch?! I gather the sound quality from the Touch is better (I've got a touch of tinnitus and ageing ears anyway!). Not fussed about the touch screen. A colour screen would look a bit weird right next to the television, whilst I love the VFD display and general form factor of the Classic. Of course, a warranty on the 'new' Classic is out the question so it's fingers crossed on this point. I'm not meaning to start a tedious Classic vs Touch thread - I can see the Touch is a 'better' product (although not quite a like-for-like replacement in my view)... I just felt a bit sad when I found out the Classic wasn't officially for sale anymore (no, I don't manage to visit these forums regularly enough otherwise I'd have known this ages ago - but the Classic generally worked too well to need to!). It's not a coincidence I also drive a 10 year old car ;) nothing wrong with the classic as replacement (if you can find one). -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
Well yes the Touch is better, but you're in luck if you still like the Classic look as it is still available from several sources including Amazon. I drive a 10yr old car too, but plan to buy a Touch next time one is on sale.I love the squeezebox whole line up, but would prefer the higher bit rate capability for my old but high end home stereo :) -- eeagle eeagle's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
I went through the same thing a few weeks ago. Ended up going with the Touch because it turned out to only be a little more than getting a Classic. I use coax digital out, so can't say I really notice an audio difference (and I'm usually fairly discriminating on audio.) Also, my SB is in a closed audio cabinet, so the color display/touch screen is really a non-issue for me. Now, I'm not sure I made the right choice. Because I went with the Touch, had to upgrade the version of my server, and I lost direct IR remote control of favorites. So I've actually taken a step backwards in user friendliness. There are a couple of other areas where I think the settings on the Touch has been dumbed down from the classic, although none as serious. eric -- EricBergan EricBergan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4746 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
EricBergan;593810 Wrote: Ended up going with the Touch Now, I'm not sure I made the right choice. At least you have a warranty ;) -- ehjones ehjones's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5218 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593796 Wrote: Am I crazy for buying another Classic instead of a Touch?! No. I would even rather buy another SB2 than a Classic. :) -- usch usch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33389 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
EricBergan;593810 Wrote: I went through the same thing a few weeks ago. Ended up going with the Touch because it turned out to only be a little more than getting a Classic. I use coax digital out, so can't say I really notice an audio difference (and I'm usually fairly discriminating on audio.) Also, my SB is in a closed audio cabinet, so the color display/touch screen is really a non-issue for me. Now, I'm not sure I made the right choice. Because I went with the Touch, had to upgrade the version of my server, and I lost direct IR remote control of favorites. So I've actually taken a step backwards in user friendliness. There are a couple of other areas where I think the settings on the Touch has been dumbed down from the classic, although none as serious. eric Hi, i bought a new classic a month ago (amazon) to have a spare in case. anyway , i bought an amplifier and speakers , so i have a system in the basement. my main classic ( slimdevice) is also behind glasses , in ethernet bridge mode for a wd tv live plus. ( so the classic 'share' is wireless mode ). if i changed for the touch, i would have to change the server version lose the bridge mode i also have a boom -- pgnyc pgnyc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7958 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593813 Wrote: At least you have a warranty ;) True, although the SB that died was actually a Slim Devices SB3, and the other one is still running, so I'm comfortable with the longevity for a CE product. In fact, it was probably one of the oldest things in the audio cabinet :-) eric -- EricBergan EricBergan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4746 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
usch;593816 Wrote: No. I would even rather buy another SB2 than a Classic. :) I like the $10 alarm clock look still... Especially in the bedroom where my SB2 replaced a $10 alarm clock... -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593796 Wrote: Am I crazy for buying another Classic instead of a Touch?! It's not a coincidence I also drive a 10 year old car ;) Let me ask you this: When you need to replace your 10 year old car, are you going to get another 10 year old car and start having the same problems or are you going to buy a car with not so many miles and years on it IE new one or slightly used one? If you answered yes, BUY THE TOUCH! -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
iPhone;593829 Wrote: Let me ask you this: When you need to replace your 10 year old car, are you going to get another 10 year old car and start having the same problems or are you going to buy a car with not so many miles and years on it IE new one or slightly used one? Nice point :) But I've done the equivalent of running a 10 year old car into the ground and replaced it with the same model and age of car that's hardly been run in :) (and saved a bit of money too...) Tongue-in-cheek somewhat, but I'm not often convinced that new=better when it comes to consumer electronics these days - so many corners seem to get cut bringing a product to market at the right price. Afterall, it happened with the SB3 when it came out (many people had their fair share of problems initially), but with a solid hardware platform, upgradable firmware, open source software development and a small responsible company looking after it all meant that, for me, the SB3 is perfect :) (just no warranty). -- ehjones ehjones's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5218 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
ehjones;593834 Wrote: Afterall, it happened with the SB3 when it came out (many people had their fair share of problems initially), but with a solid hardware platform, upgradable firmware, open source software development and a small responsible company looking after it all meant that, for me, the SB3 is perfect :) (just no warranty). Fortunately most of the new code is still open source. I hope that in a few years time there will be as many great plugins/applets for the Touch as there are now for the Classic, so that it eventually becomes usable. -- usch usch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33389 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
Go the touch -- bigblackdog bigblackdog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37719 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
usch;593845 Wrote:
Fortunately most of the new code is still open source. I hope that in a
few years time there will be as many great plugins/applets for the
Touch as there are now for the Classic, so that it eventually becomes
usable.
What are you missing ?
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
erland;593871 Wrote: What are you missing ? Server issue rather than Touch, but the biggest one for me is ability to press a button on the IR remote and start a playlist. Lost that a few server versions ago, apparently. Further down, set a static IP address, more control of the clock appearance, compare SB3 basic settings to Touch basic settings... -- EricBergan EricBergan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4746 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
EricBergan;593876 Wrote:
more control of the clock appearance
I assume you know that there are third party applets for the Touch that
offers a lot more than what's ever been available on the Classic in this
area ?
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
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Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
erland;593877 Wrote: I assume you know that there are third party applets for the Touch that offers a lot more than what's ever been available on the Classic in this area ? But it was built in with the Classic - why remove that? My real issue isn't with any particular item (except direct IR remote selection of playlists), but why functionality that was present with the Classic, or earlier server versions, was removed. eric -- EricBergan EricBergan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4746 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
I was planning to buy the Touch. After reading this and other threads I'm not sure anymore. Is this correct? 1. No wifi bridge? (It's useful but I can live without it) 2. No static ip? (I can use the router to set it but) 3. No ir-blaster? (This is a showstoper) If it is, will it ever be implemented? -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3, SB BOOM - vortex...@hp SFF iPod Touch\iPeng bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
bernt;593884 Wrote:
Is this correct?
1. No wifi bridge? (It's useful but I can live without it)
2. No static ip? (I can use the router to set it but)
3. No ir-blaster? (This is a showstoper)
If it is, will it ever be implemented?
No one knows, Logitech no longer gives us any indications on what they
plan to do in the future. My guess is that Logitech won't do it, but
it's only a guess.
I'm not sure if the above mentioned features is limited by the hardware
or software, if it's the software (which I suspect) there is always the
possibility that some third party developer is interested in doing it.
Aren't there other solutions for IR blasters ?
Do you really need the Squeezebox to handle this ?
I can only talk for myself but I can honestly say that I would never
want to switch my Touch to the old Classic (which now mostly just acts
as a simple clock). Assuming you are running a local computer with SBS,
I think most people owning a Touch is pretty happy with how it works.
Sure, it has lost some features in comparison to the Classic but it has
also added better sound, a color screen and some other things. The
built-in server in the Touch doesn't work reliably for a lot of users,
so I personally don't consider that to be an added feature that should
affect the purchase decision.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [slim] The Squeezebox is dead... long live the Squeezebox
erland;593887 Wrote: Aren't there other solutions for IR blasters ? Do you really need the Squeezebox to handle this ? I haven't found another way to control the volume on my amp with SBS GUI or iPeng. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3, SB BOOM - vortex...@hp SFF iPod Touch\iPeng bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83786 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
