Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
pablolie wrote: > i got sick of porting and re-configuring applications. > > so for stuff like LMS i simply configured a stable dedicated VM running > a long-term support Ubuntu kernel (12.04 right now) with LMS on top. And > then run in on VM Player, and then the underlying machine doesn't > matter. you could do the same with XP, in theory. You're right, VMs are very handy for different purposes - and there are tools that copy a running XP on a real machine into a virtual machine for use on another hardware. But I doubt that the OP as a non computer-savvy person would feel comfortable in doing this. After all he could keep his real XP in parallel to a new system as long as necessary. reinholdk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36070 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
i got sick of porting and re-configuring applications. so for stuff like LMS i simply configured a stable dedicated VM running a long-term support Ubuntu kernel (12.04 right now) with LMS on top. And then run in on VM Player, and then the underlying machine doesn't matter. you could do the same with XP, in theory. ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine running Ubuntu 12.04 + LMS 7.7.3 on VMware Player System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- Creek Destiny Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- KEF LS50 Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> AudioEngine5 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Apesbrain, having a new drive with Win7 and holding onto Win XP is a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion. I will talk to my tech about doing this very soon. Thank you. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob wrote: > I guess wiping out my existing computer ... just makes me nervous. It makes anyone nervous. What I've advised friends in your situation is to buy a new, bigger/faster hard drive and have your tech put it into your desktop PC right next to your existing drive. He should know how to install your new operating system on this new drive, leave your old drive totally intact and have your PC boot from the new "C:" drive. Everything will be spanking new, clean and fast. As you work with your "new" PC you'll discover what software you need to reinstall; you'll also find that you never use most of the stuff installed on your "old" PC. When you need access to your old files, they are still on your secondary "D:" drive. You can leave them there or take your time moving them over to the appropriate place on the new drive. After some time and once you're sure you've moved everything that you need, you can reformat the D: drive and have all that extra storage space.* Here's another option: have your tech install Windows 7 in a "dual-boot" configuration with XP. The details are below but the short of it is that you choose which one to start whenever you boot up your PC. This is very handy when you have applications installed on XP that you still use and for which you no longer have the installer. Need to use Quicken and don't want to buy and install a new copy? Just reboot into XP: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/8057-dual-boot-installation-windows-7-xp.html *It's a little different if you have a laptop as there is no room for a second drive. You'd buy an external USB case for your old hard drive something like this: http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY%C2%AE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Enclosure/dp/B001AAVA08 Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
kidstypike wrote: > What kind of files are they? Are they pictures, Word Docs, Excel > files? > > You would just copy them from your external backup drive to wherever you > want them on your new computer. yes, they are pictures, QuickenFiles, workout logs,emails, letters, etc. I do have the original Quicken disc, but not sure I have the photo startup discs etc. I wouldn't want to lose any files. I recently did a complete backup thru the XP system tools...so the external drive shows a "disc and settings" backup, but I do not know what to do with that fileit's not a file that actually opens to my knowledge. I guess wiping out my existing computer and then reloading important things just makes me nervous. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
yes, they are picture, Quicken, workout logs,emails, etc. I do have the original Quicken disc, but not sure I have the photo startup discs etc. The photos concern me the most. I wouldn't want to lose them. My workout logs are important to me, too. I recently did a complete backup thru the XP system tools...so the external drive shows a disc and settings backup, but I do not know what to do with that fileit's not a file that actually opens to my knowledge. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob wrote: > yes, I'll see all those filesbut then what? Sorry, but I know a > little about computer technologyjust a little. Thanks. What kind of files are they? Are they pictures, Word Docs, Excel files? You would just copy them from your external backup drive to wherever you want them on your new computer. kidstypike 1xSB3 - 1xBoom - 1x(Squeezebox) Radio - 2xTouch kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
kidstypike wrote: > Just plug your backup external hard drive into your new computer, you'll > see your important files! yes, I'll see all those filesbut then what? Sorry, but I know a little about computer technologyjust a little. Thanks. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Just plug your backup external hard drive into your new computer, you'll see your important files! kidstypike 1xSB3 - 1xBoom - 1x(Squeezebox) Radio - 2xTouch kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
I haven't posted because I was busy picking up my computers and trying to set them up again. Thank you all for your responses, information and advice. The dedicated computer with LMS and Squeezebox files was cleaned and updated to Win7 and I am working to get everything working well. So far very fine. To answer your question, Gary... I am changing to Win7 from WinXPpro because of the announcement that XP would no longer be supported. This announcement disturbed my wife much more than it did me. So now that I have Win7 on the LMS dedicated computer I am liking the new OS. (Although I haven't learned it yet). I am getting some rebuffering issues. My main computer is still XP because it has many files that are very important and I'd have to do a clean install and I'm not sure how I'd reinstall these important files... They are backed up on an external HD. I would like to have this main computer on Win7 but I'm apprehensive about retrieving all of those files. Anyhow, that's where I am. Once again I really appreciate this forum community and how so many responders came to respond to my post regarding XP>7. Thank you very much! I really love this SB ecosystem. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
+1 for a fresh install of any OS is better, statrting with a clean reg file so no hidden program links cause issues. Now for my 2 cents, if the XP is working fine no need to change. Upgrading to a new OS is very hardware dependant and being able to function at the preformance level expected. For Win 7 and above you should be using a Chip of a I3 or higher and use as much ram that you can put in 4GIG min. I use an old P4 running XP and 3Gig of ram (XP does not use ram above 3Gig) and it runs LMS, and MP3Tag smooth as glass. Slim Device Transporter wirelessly connected 2nd SqueezeBox 3 Wirelessly connected (MasterBedroom) 3rd SqueezeBox 3 Wirelessly connected (bedroom) 4th Squeezebox Duet wirelessly connected (bedroom) 5th Squeezebox Touch Wirelessly connected (livingroom) 6th Squeezebox Touch Wirelessly connected (downstairs bedroom) Server (In garage) running on P4 3.0 GHz 3 gig ram Windows XP (Sp3) 350 Xternal gigHD Verizon Fios wireless router w/HG antana Recoveryone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9205 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
If you plan on going the 64bit route then there is no upgrade path from XP 32bit regardless. The Vista upgrade route you mentioned before would require you to stay 32bit. If your PC will run 64bit and my recommendation would be for at least 3GB memory I'd go with a clean 64bit install of Win7 or 8. I understand that 8 is a little better performance wise, but you may want to use one of the free aftermarket desktop replacements like http://www.classicshell.net/ which basically gives you the Win7 desktop/start button which would make the move to Win8 from XP much less jarring. 2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs Rock Solid with LMS 7.8.0 and WHS 2011 w3wilkes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
+1 And upgrading an existing OS ime does not workout as advertised it's not the same as a fresh install , you probably end up with a fresh install anyway . And in that respect I do have a beef with pc's with preinstalled OS that does not come with a real windows disc , but some eom junk usually mixing OS drivers and bundled "free" software in one jumbled mess or *shrug* just a restore partition ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
I run Win7 on my primary computer, and may be going to Win8.1 on a new device I'm having built, but have maintained XP on the dedicated music server. I've seen no reason to change as it's working fine. I don't do XP upgrades on it anyway, so won't miss the updates no longer coming from Microsoft. However, if I were running LMS on my primary computer, I'd definitely go to 7 or 8.1. Too many of the newer applications need the newer Windows, and it's just better for many purposes, although LMS is one of the apps that don't seem to care. It's always a pain to upgrade, and especially to get a new computer. I'm about to have to reinstall a great many legacy apps on a new device, but fortunately LMS and my primary music library aren't among the things I'll have to do -- they are on their own computer. R. LMS on a dedicated music server (FitPC2) Transporter (ethernet) - main music listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers Duet (wifi) - home theatre 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers Boom 1 (wifi) - workspace Boom 2 (wifi) - various (deck, garage, etc.) Radio (wifi) - home office Touch x 2 - awaiting deployment UE Radio - awaiting deployment Control - 2 Controllers (main listening, home theatre, all others), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2), Music2Touch (BB Playbook) RonM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob wrote: > Well, I have now been informed that I cannot upgrade from Windows XPpro > to Win7 and still keep all of my existing programs. I'm not sure I > understood the process but it seemed very complicated. The problem seems > to be that I did not go to Win VISTA. > Can anyone give me a different explanation for why you can't go from > XPpro to 7? > Thank you. Ikabob, it is very possible that you could upgrade your machine to Windows 7, and install your Windows XP on a VMWare player virtual machine. VMWare Player is free and works very well. You could then run the XP programs which will not run on Windows 7 in that virtual machine. you will need to do it quickly as you will need to do any updates for XP before April 8th, 2014. Once you have all updates installed onto the XP virtual machine, run it as an independent machine - i.e. without an internet connection. Windows 7 runs VMWare Player very well. The laptop I'm typing this on had Windows 7 with XP as a virtual machine. I updated it to Windows 8.1, and now have XP and Vista as virtual machines. Vista is fine, but it is a lot hungrier than XP: it needs about 30Gb to sit comfortably, while XP needed about 10Gb. Squeezebox Classic:2; Duet: 1; Boom:1; Touch:1; Wandboard Quad; Squeezelite. Server: Wandboard Quad with CSOS; Raspberry Pi/Wolfson Card with Squeezeplug 7.06; (backup:Win 8 Pro 64 bit, Sheevaplug with Squeezeplug); iPeng, iPeng for Ipad, Orange Squeeze, Squeezepad, LMS Version: 7.8.0 latest nightly kesey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10786 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob wrote: > Well, I have now been informed that I cannot upgrade from Windows XPpro > to Win7 and still keep all of my existing programs. I'm not sure I > understood the process but it seemed very complicated. The problem seems > to be that I did not go to Win VISTA. > Can anyone give me a different explanation for why you can't go from > XPpro to 7? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. As garym says, you often need to uninstall your various programs and then re-install them after you upgrade the OS. Most programs should be compatible with Win7, but maybe you have some oddballs in there that aren't. Did the person who informed you that you couldn't upgrade say anything about _specific_ programs you have that will not run in Win7? I'll take a slightly opposing view from garym on issue of the necessity of upgrading. Yes, WinXP will work as well two months from now as it does today. But Microsoft dropping its support is not entirely innocuous. Over its history WinXP has had tons of system vulnerabilities, and tons of MS updates to patch those vulnerabilities. When MS support disappears there will no longer be any patches to deal with new vulnerabilities. So I would be wary of connecting a WinXP computer to the internet after MS drops support. That's not to say I wouldn't do it at all -- I would just make sure I had other protective measures in place and pay closer attention to them than usual. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob wrote: > Well, I have now been informed that I cannot upgrade from Windows XPpro > to Win7 and still keep all of my existing programs. I'm not sure I > understood the process but it seemed very complicated. The problem seems > to be that I did not go to Win VISTA. > Can anyone give me a different explanation for why you can't go from > XPpro to 7? > Thank you. As garym explained, many of the existing programs will run on Win7, either naturally or in compatibility mode. The 'problem' with Win7 over XP is that the default user folder locations have changed, e.g. 'Documents and Settings' is now buried in a 'User' folder structure. Therefore a 'clean' (ish) install is recommended. Bit of a pain, but will give you a better experience. Don't ever, ever install Vista. (ever) Have you been to the MS upgrade site? There are tools there to copy out your documents etc. and put them back into Win7. Can't remember exactly what it does though. LMS Version: 7.8 TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011 2x Touch, 3x SB3 bonze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6150 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob wrote: > Well, I have now been informed that I cannot upgrade from Windows XPpro > to Win7 and still keep all of my existing programs. I'm not sure I > understood the process but it seemed very complicated. The problem seems > to be that I did not go to Win VISTA. > Can anyone give me a different explanation for why you can't go from > XPpro to 7? > Thank you. many of the programs you had on XP will still work on win7. But I suspect you need to do a complete wipe and OS install, and THEN reinstall old programs. If you're like me, you don't have most of the install programs/disks/download codes from your old XP install. For me, when I only update when I buy a new computer. I make sure my own data/files are backed up, then just install the new version of whatever software I use (MS office, etc.), and copy over my own files. So yes, its a pain and cost $$. Tell us again WHY you want to move from XP. As someone noted, if your computer is old enough it won't likely run Win7 very well anyhow. What's wrong with just continuing to use XP? I have an old laptop at home that is on XP that I use for a few things and it works fine. The fact that MS has announced no more updates for XP is no reason to stop using it. It still works like it did yesterday. *Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay *Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Streaming - Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Well, I have now been informed that I cannot upgrade from Windows XPpro to Win7 and still keep all of my existing programs. I'm not sure I understood the process but it seemed very complicated. The problem seems to be that I did not go to Win VISTA. Can anyone give me a different explanation for why you can't go from XPpro to 7? Thank you. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
I think you made the right choice. I prefer Win7 over 8. jfo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1135 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Thanks for the responses. I have purchased win7 and will have a pro install it for me. Thanks again. Ikabob Squeezebox Touch w/LMS V7.7.3; Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various additional speakers). Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3; Services:Slacker;Sky.com;Rhapsody; Sirius.com;CalmRadio Ipeng remote controller. Ikabob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32088 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Changing to OS Windows 7 or 8.
Ikabob, I think Windows 8/8.1 is actually less demanding of the hardware than is Windows 7. I have old machines that I've updated to both. No problem at all running them. Squeezebox Classic:2; Duet: 1; Boom:1; Touch:1; Wandboard Quad; Squeezelite. Server: Wandboard Quad with CSOS; Raspberry Pi/Wolfson Card with Squeezeplug 7.06; (backup:Win 8 Pro 64 bit, Sheevaplug with Squeezeplug); iPeng, iPeng for Ipad, Orange Squeeze, Squeezepad, LMS Version: 7.8.0 latest nightly kesey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10786 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101240 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
