RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework
Charlie, I saw your post I it started me thinking. With the new feature within CF9 does this make the ORM framework more or less attractive as an option. CF9 seems to handle ORM requirements very well. Would one be better off taking advantage of a different framework and handle ORM issues with the built it functionality of CF9? --- On Sat, 7/18/09, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.org wrote: From: Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework To: discussion@acfug.org Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 10:39 PM Uh, here it comes, the annual framework debate. :-) I’m only joking, Clarke. It’s a reasonable question. The good news is that you will indeed get opinions. You’ll just have to sift through them. I think the problem with the discussion is that there’s no one good answer. As with so many things, it depends: on yourself, fellow developers (and indeed if there are any), what you do and don’t know about frameworks and patterns in general, how much you’ll be able to reuse the framework (and the knowledge gained getting comfortable), how much time you have, how much you want to be able (or may have to) to contribute to it, and so many other attributes. Besides the big 4 (mach ii, model-glue, fusebox, and coldbox), there are indeed many more. Another that may suit you getting started is cfwheels. I list all the CFML frameworks (that I’ve found) at my CF411 site: http://www.cf411.com/#cffw (Actually, I break it into 3 categories: Application, injection, and ORM frameworks.) I’ll note that we’ve had talks on ColdBox on the meetup before. Check out all past recordings at recordings.coldfusionmeetup.com. There was also an issue of the FusionAuthority Quarterly Update that tried to review the top frameworks (Vol II Issue II, Fall 2006), which while a bit dated may still be helpful. There was also an effort some years ago at trying to create a repository of one example app built in many frameworks: http://www.cfpetmarket.com/. It didn’t really take off, but it’s worth considering in your evaluation effort. Let’s see what others say in general. /charlie From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Clarke Bishop Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:00 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework OK, I’ve finally decided to really learn a ColdFusion framework! But which one? I watched a presentation Sean Corfield did for BACFUG (I found this on Charlie’s UGTV): https://admin.na3.acrobat.com/_a204547676/p71922816/ I think Mach-II is harder to learn and I don’t need it’s capabilities. So, I crossed Mach-II off my list. Before I watched Sean’s presentation, I was thinking Model-Glue was the right one to learn. It seems like I’ve heard more of you talking about Model-Glue than the others. But, in Sean’s presentation, ColdBox seemed like it might be a good choice, too. It seems to have very good documentation which would help me get down the learning curve. What do you guys think? Is there any other mainstream framework I should look at? I want to learn how to effectively use an MVC framework, and I want to pick something that will expand my understanding and won’t be obsolete next year. Other than that, being easiest to learn is probably most important. Thanks for your ideas! Clarke - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework
What did I hear fusebox compared to recently on twitterh. Coldbox sounds promising, it showed up whilst I was away in Flex land. Seems to me, without fanning flames, mach-ii, coldbox, or model glue will be handy dandy to learn. The principles learned in either of these will apply in the future as well as today. Fusebox I would not say that about. Douglas Knudsen http://www.cubicleman.com this is my signature, like it? On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.orgwrote: Uh, here it comes, the annual framework debate. :-) I’m only joking, Clarke. It’s a reasonable question. The good news is that you will indeed get opinions. You’ll just have to sift through them. I think the problem with the discussion is that there’s no one good answer. As with so many things, it depends: on yourself, fellow developers (and indeed if there are any), what you do and don’t know about frameworks and patterns in general, how much you’ll be able to reuse the framework (and the knowledge gained getting comfortable), how much time you have, how much you want to be able (or may have to) to contribute to it, and so many other attributes. Besides the big 4 (mach ii, model-glue, fusebox, and coldbox), there are indeed many more. Another that may suit you getting started is cfwheels. I list all the CFML frameworks (that I’ve found) at my CF411 site: http://www.cf411.com/#cffw (Actually, I break it into 3 categories: Application, injection, and ORM frameworks.) I’ll note that we’ve had talks on ColdBox on the meetup before. Check out all past recordings at recordings.coldfusionmeetup.com. There was also an issue of the FusionAuthority Quarterly Update that tried to review the top frameworks (Vol II Issue II, Fall 2006), which while a bit dated may still be helpful. There was also an effort some years ago at trying to create a repository of one example app built in many frameworks: http://www.cfpetmarket.com/. It didn’t really take off, but it’s worth considering in your evaluation effort. Let’s see what others say in general. /charlie *From:* ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] *On Behalf Of *Clarke Bishop *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:00 PM *To:* discussion@acfug.org *Subject:* [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework OK, I’ve finally decided to really learn a ColdFusion framework! But which one? I watched a presentation Sean Corfield did for BACFUG (I found this on Charlie’s UGTV): https://admin.na3.acrobat.com/_a204547676/p71922816/ I think Mach-II is harder to learn and I don’t need it’s capabilities. So, I crossed Mach-II off my list. Before I watched Sean’s presentation, I was thinking Model-Glue was the right one to learn. It seems like I’ve heard more of you talking about Model-Glue than the others. But, in Sean’s presentation, ColdBox seemed like it might be a good choice, too. It seems to have very good documentation which would help me get down the learning curve. What do you guys think? Is there any other mainstream framework I should look at? I want to learn how to effectively use an MVC framework, and I want to pick something that will expand my understanding and won’t be obsolete next year. Other than that, being easiest to learn is probably most important. Thanks for your ideas! Clarke - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework
Thanks guys! I know that for some people choosing a framework becomes a religious question. I started to say something about this in my original message. Instead, I listed some requirements: . An MVC framework (Therefore, no Fusebox). The others are more object oriented. . Helps expand my understanding and won't quickly become obsolete. . Being easier to learn and get started with. I also have a lot of respect for all the ACFUG members. So, if there's already an ACFUG consensus, I'd rather go in that direction. Charlie, I think I remember asking you before if you focused on a specific framework, and you said No. Doug's been in Flex land, and I also had Timothy's question whether CF9 changes anything with its built-in hibernate. I'd love to hear from anyone who recently has been using one of these frameworks. What do you think might be best for me? Thanks again! Clarke From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Knudsen Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework What did I hear fusebox compared to recently on twitterh. Coldbox sounds promising, it showed up whilst I was away in Flex land. Seems to me, without fanning flames, mach-ii, coldbox, or model glue will be handy dandy to learn. The principles learned in either of these will apply in the future as well as today. Fusebox I would not say that about. Douglas Knudsen http://www.cubicleman.com this is my signature, like it? On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.org wrote: Uh, here it comes, the annual framework debate. :-) I'm only joking, Clarke. It's a reasonable question. The good news is that you will indeed get opinions. You'll just have to sift through them. I think the problem with the discussion is that there's no one good answer. As with so many things, it depends: on yourself, fellow developers (and indeed if there are any), what you do and don't know about frameworks and patterns in general, how much you'll be able to reuse the framework (and the knowledge gained getting comfortable), how much time you have, how much you want to be able (or may have to) to contribute to it, and so many other attributes. Besides the big 4 (mach ii, model-glue, fusebox, and coldbox), there are indeed many more. Another that may suit you getting started is cfwheels. I list all the CFML frameworks (that I've found) at my CF411 site: http://www.cf411.com/#cffw (Actually, I break it into 3 categories: Application, injection, and ORM frameworks.) I'll note that we've had talks on ColdBox on the meetup before. Check out all past recordings at recordings.coldfusionmeetup.com. There was also an issue of the FusionAuthority Quarterly Update that tried to review the top frameworks (Vol II Issue II, Fall 2006), which while a bit dated may still be helpful. There was also an effort some years ago at trying to create a repository of one example app built in many frameworks: http://www.cfpetmarket.com/. It didn't really take off, but it's worth considering in your evaluation effort. Let's see what others say in general. /charlie From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Clarke Bishop Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:00 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework OK, I've finally decided to really learn a ColdFusion framework! But which one? I watched a presentation Sean Corfield did for BACFUG (I found this on Charlie's UGTV): https://admin.na3.acrobat.com/_a204547676/p71922816/ I think Mach-II is harder to learn and I don't need it's capabilities. So, I crossed Mach-II off my list. Before I watched Sean's presentation, I was thinking Model-Glue was the right one to learn. It seems like I've heard more of you talking about Model-Glue than the others. But, in Sean's presentation, ColdBox seemed like it might be a good choice, too. It seems to have very good documentation which would help me get down the learning curve. What do you guys think? Is there any other mainstream framework I should look at? I want to learn how to effectively use an MVC framework, and I want to pick something that will expand my understanding and won't be obsolete next year. Other than that, being easiest to learn is probably most important. Thanks for your ideas! Clarke - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework
Clarke, You have established some criteria in your decision already. You are looking for an MVC framework in ColdFusion. - Mach-II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach-II A framework that focuses on trying to ease software development and maintenance - Model-Glue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-Glue Through a simple implementation of Implicit Invocation and Model–View–Controller, they allow applications to be well organized without sacrificing flexibility. - Fusebox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusebox_%28programming%29Fusebox does not force the Model–View–Controller (MVC) pattern or Object-Oriented Programming (OOP) on the developer. However, either or both of these development approaches can be used with Fusebox. - PureMVC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PureMVC Framework for ColdFusion - Coldboxhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coldboxaction=editredlink=1is an event-driven conventions based MVC ColdFusion Framework with an extensive array of patterns for its operations such as Factories, Helpers, Workers, etc. - Switchboard http://switchboard.riaforge.org/ is a MVC framework with built in authentication, redirecting, and URL routing. The above was pulled from wikipedia on the MVC design pattern. The longevity of any given open source software is not a constant and can be unpredictable. I have no knowledge on Switchboard and I am not sure on the longevity of PureMVC. Your approach to learn what is involved in an MVC framework probably should probably have two approaches: Design Pattern understanding and Practical usage. I would suggest learning the practical usage first with each of the frameworks that make your cut. I would choose two or three at max. Establish what features that you can leverage from each framework. I like to look at things like how easy is it to incorporate other technologies into the framework. Aside from a feature list, perform a Pet Store project in each framework. By Pet Store, learn how to create a form, submit a form, create a model layer for the forms without using built in features like scaffolding. How hard is it to track the data through the framework? How quickly can you learn where to make the changes for a form submission? The Design Pattern approach can occur after you make your decision based upon practical usage. Learn what the vernacular means. What parts of the design pattern are present in your chosen framework? You ask the group for their collective interpretation, but most of this is your study of the pattern and how a given framework works for you. You know your aptitude more than us and you know what problems you are trying to solve. Teddy R. Payne, ACCFD Google Talk - teddyrpa...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Clarke Bishop cbis...@resultantsys.comwrote: Thanks guys! I know that for some people choosing a framework becomes a religious question. I started to say something about this in my original message. Instead, I listed some requirements: · An MVC framework (Therefore, no Fusebox). The others are more object oriented. · Helps expand my understanding and won’t quickly become obsolete. · Being easier to learn and get started with. I also have a lot of respect for all the ACFUG members. So, if there’s already an ACFUG consensus, I’d rather go in that direction. Charlie, I think I remember asking you before if you focused on a specific framework, and you said “No”. Doug’s been in Flex land, and I also had Timothy’s question whether CF9 changes anything with its built-in hibernate. I’d love to hear from anyone who recently has been using one of these frameworks. What do you think might be best for me? Thanks again! Clarke *From:* ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Knudsen *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:03 PM *To:* discussion@acfug.org *Subject:* Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework What did I hear fusebox compared to recently on twitterh. Coldbox sounds promising, it showed up whilst I was away in Flex land. Seems to me, without fanning flames, mach-ii, coldbox, or model glue will be handy dandy to learn. The principles learned in either of these will apply in the future as well as today. Fusebox I would not say that about. Douglas Knudsen http://www.cubicleman.com this is my signature, like it? On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.org wrote: Uh, here it comes, the annual framework debate. :-) I’m only joking, Clarke. It’s a reasonable question. The good news is that you will indeed get opinions. You’ll just have to sift through them. I think the problem with the discussion is that there’s no one good answer. As with so many things, it depends: on yourself, fellow developers (and indeed if there are any), what you do and don’t know about frameworks and patterns in general, how much you’ll
