[ACFUG Discuss] SQL Server performance issue
Hi folks, An application I've built and maintained for years has just undergone some radical changes in the way some financial data is stored, meaning large changes in the database schema. The result is that the database functions I've built to calculate total billing figures must look at a variety of possible scenarios, and the result has been very slow performance when those functions must be run many times to obtain a large group of totals. I'm hoping that either someone in the group feels s/he's enough of an expert SQL programmer -- or simply knows a great SQL programmer -- who could look at the situation and come up with a more performant solution. This would definitely be a paid gig. I'll be happy to share the code and schema with someone who thinks s/he can help. But I don't want to overload the group with too much information till it's necessary. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] HostMySite observations?
+1 for kickassvps.com. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Quick Survey - Mura Users? Railo?
1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Best password hash practices
Frank, Here's a good article on the subject: http://blog.mxunit.org/2009/06/look-ma-no-password-secure-hashing-in.html On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Frank Moorman stretch...@franksdomain.net wrote: All, I am building a new website and I need to create a user/password database. I used to always use the hash function on the password, store the hash on the database, and then verify credential by doing a select from the database where: ***stored value*** = hash(***password***) . However, it appears that a single hash is no longer adequate security due to rainbow tables. I was planning on overcoming this by performing an initial hash, taking the result and salting it with the original password and passing this concatenated value into a second hash function. e.g. ***stored value*** = Hash( ***password*** ( Hash( ***password*** ) ) ) I wanted to know what everyone else thought about what the best practice in web security is right now and if this is adequate, or if someone has a better idea... (I may use a few string functions to actually stick the password in the middle of the second iteration instead of just concatenating the value on the end just for a little more obscurity.) Thanks, Frank - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CMS Preferences
+1 (or 2 or 3) for Mura. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Noob help
Mike, You are most likely running into an instance of the previous developer using ColdFusion's query of queries functionality. That's what Teddy, John and Ken are getting at. Once you retrieve or create a CF query result - usually by running a normal CF query to a real database table, you can then re-query the results. So you can do: cfquery name=myQuery datasource=myDSN SELECT * FROM myTable /cfquery And then do: cfquery name=mySecondQuery dbtype=query SELECT myField FROM myQuery /cfquery So in your case: SELECT * FROM qryGetVisitRecords ..,. there's almost surely a previous query - a 'real' one - named qryGetVisitRecords -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Session variables
Hi Moises, In general, what you want to do is this: as a request is being processed (perhaps within the OnRequest method of Application.cfc, or elsewhere if you're using a framework), you need to check to see if the user is logged in, probably by checking for existence of some session variable. So instead of getting an error saying the variable is undefined, you do cfif NOT isDefined(session.whatever). If the person is not logged in, then you need to grab the URL string that s/he was trying to access and redirect the user to the login page, including the original URL in some manner. I've sometimes created a POST action to the login page, so that the string comes into the login page as a form variable, say form.intendedURL. You send that information along with the login. If the login is successful, you can then redirect the user to the intended page, because you know the URL or queryString values. I realize that's a general response, but you need to build around your application's architecture. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF blogs
Dusty, I'm not sure you'll be able to determine a most preferred: blog. But I think you'll find strong supporters both for Ray Camden's BlogCFC (which has been around forever, but is frequently updated) and Mango Blog, from the folks at ASFusion. You can find both at RIAForge, I think. For some reason, Mango Blog isn't showing up in the search there, although a number of plugins for it do. But you can find it at mangoblog.org. Mango, in particular, is built for skinning. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Mura Content Management System
Clarke, On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Clarke Bishop cbis...@resultantsys.comwrote: I am trying to install the Mura (Formerly called Sava) content management system. Mura looks like a great open source ColdFusion product, but their setup and configuration documentation is lacking in some areas. Yep. But they're constantly expanding it. You have to understand, BlueRiver is a commercial development company that's opened to the rest of us a system they've been developing for years to use for their clients. They're very, very generous with their product -- and they're very responsive to questions on their forum. But reasonably enough, documenting the system for others has to take a back seat to running their own business. They've been pretty open about admitting that they just haven't had time to fill out the documentation as they'd like. That said, the installation itself is very straightforward. Follow the install instructions on their site, and it should work with no problem. Has for me, anyway. Past that, you'll need to cruise the documentation on both sides of the house - front- and back-end. It'll help you understand the system much better to read the documentation for non-technical content editors. The forum is very responsive. And last, there's a very good presentation of the system archived as a Connect presentation, reachable from Charlie Arehart's ColdFusionMeetup site. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework
Clarke, So far, everyone's been very even-handed about not really recommending one framework. And while I won't contradict that (in fact, I'll +1 it), I'll say that I'm very, very comfortable with Model-Glue. I used Mach-II in its pre-1.0 days, and for a while after. And I have less than no knowledge about using its current iteration -- which is very different from the one I used. But I tried Model-Glue shortly after Joe Rinehart began releasing betas, and it just felt right from the beginning. Now, that's a very personal thing, separate from any religious debates about which is better. And I have a feeling that if you try the various frameworks, you'll fairly quickly find one that clicks for you personally. As I said, for me it's Model-Glue, which is once again being very actively developed, after a period of time during which Joe Rinehart was unable to spend time on it. Now it's being shepherded along by some very smart folks. That said, there are also many people who seem to have found that same kind of comfort with ColdBox. One thing I'd suggest -- aside from the obvious try-'em-all-out advice -- is to join the mailing lists for each framework you're considering. Lurking on those lists will give you a perspective on how the developers currently using those frameworks think and work, as well as how actively involved in the lists the folks who are maintaining the frameworks are. Safe to say, all three of the MVC frameworks - including the baby of the bunch, ColdBox - are actually quite mature. To add one more item to the ORM discussion: a critical difference between Hibernate and Transfer or Reactor is that the former offers the ability to design your model first, then create the database from that model. That may or may not be important to any of us. But some folks who've used Hibernate for a good while, and who have lived in object model land for a while, are strong advocates of working this way. Teddy's right, of course: it's entirely possible that Reactor or Transfer may later work with or through Hibernate, to make use of that framework's capabilities. Certainly, Mark Mandel, the developer of Transfer, knows Hibernate through and through. He's already written an Adobe DevNet article on the the CF9 ORM capabilities, even though one could think of those capabilities as competing with Transfer, or making it obsolete. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework
Clarke, Tom said, Model-Glue feels more comfortable than Mach-II. Well, I said to me. YMMV. But, unless one of you says “Oh My, that’s a big mistake!”, I’m going to start with ColdBox. Not a bit. Luis Majano has done a pretty amazing job. I just haven't had the time to give ColdBox a real try. It is certainly true that the major authors of each framework have learned from the earlier frameworks -- not just in how they think their framework should function, but in how it should be documented and extended, too. ColdBox is the youngest, and as a result, has more stuff. Frankly, I wish I had the time to give ColdBox a shot. · They have a nice proxy that lets you access the framework via Flex (I know, some of the others have this too, but theirs looks easier to use). Welcome to yet another framework decision: what to use inside Flex. (That was a discussion on the AFFUG list last week.) Have fun. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Cfcompile
Mike, On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Mike Staver sta...@fimble.com wrote: what does the utility need the web server path for? The docs are referring to the path on your current web server/dev machine/whatever. The compiler simply needs to know a fully qualified path to the directory containing the files you wish to compile, and a directory into which you want the compiled files saved. It doesn't have anything to do with paths in a deployment. Naturally, the pathing within your application will have to work correctly on all installations. But the paths you give to cfcompile are simply Where are the files you want me to compile, and where do you want me to put the finished product? -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Cfcompile
Ummm Teddy, On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Teddy R. Payne teddyrpa...@gmail.comwrote: Tom, I think you mean Mike. I was just answering his pathing question. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Non-CF Question
Peyton, Unfortunately, I can't explain why you're having a problem. Perhaps it's permissions-related. But on my network, I have no problems moving files between my Powerbook and PC servers, in either direction. Nor do I have a problem copying files from the Mac to a Windows-formatted network drive, which I use for backup. You might have to do some tweaks on a Windows machine to move files to a Mac. From from the Mac to Windows, it should be pretty seamless. I know that doesn't really help you move the files, but at least you know it can be done. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Non-CF Question
Hi Peyton, On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Peyton Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Just for interest, Tom, you might want to check and see if the PC drive you can copy to is FAT or FAT32... Nope. They're NTFS. Aside from the backup network drive, I have a Windows 2003 server that I read and write from all day. Most of my development files are on that server, so I'm working with them in Eclipse constantly. Glad you got your problem solved, though. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: SQL Toolkit from Red Gate
I've only followed this discussion briefly since my earlier post, but I wonder if other posters are really familiar with what the Red Gate tools do? I've used some of the other tools mentioned - Navicat, MySQL Admin, certainly Enterprise Manager -- and I currently use Aqua Data Studio for most tasks. But as far as I know, the Red Gate tools do lots of things those others can't. And remember, Dusty is specifically looking for something to use with MSSQL. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: SQL Toolkit from Red Gate
Dusty, I've never used SQL Toolkit, but I've used Red Gate's SQL Compare and SQL Data Compare tools for years. And they're terrific. The only issues I ever had involved synchronization, where there were problems because constraints were not properly dropped. But even that was a couple of versions back. In general, these guys make terrific tools and are actually accessible if you need help. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] OT: SQL Toolkit from Red Gate
Hi Dusty, On 10/26/07, Dusty Hale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could be mistaken but I think the Toolkit is just a bundle. No, you're right. I just hadn't explored enough to know whether the Toolkit might include other tools as well. I had the same problem with the comparison keys at first but after I set up custom comparison keys within the tool it works fine. I don't know whether the older version I have simply doesn't have custom comparison keys, or whether I just don't know how/where to use them. Nevertheless, it sounds like you've gotten past the problem. It seems superior to using DTS to me. I could be wrong here but setting up a DTS packet that compares and updates (rather than drop or delete data and replace) seems like a rather tedious task with DTS (maybe I'm missing something though?) ... Well, I'm not any kind of authority on DTS. I generally hated it because it was so opaque. The Red Gate tools actually generate SQL you can read, if necessary, edit and run on your own. Basically, I just think Red Gate's stuff is just good. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Browser and File Upload Filter?
Cody, On 10/8/07, Cody Wehunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All the searching I have done on the net says it is not possible. True. The dialog box is the native OS file dialog, and the browser cannot send it information. Besides, the files of type filter is Windows-specific. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Understanding application.cfc
Max, Application.cfc (the cap A is recommended, by the way) works the same as application.cfm, in that when CF processes a request, it looks up the directory tree until it finds an Application.cfc. You can include one Application.cfc inside another, however, so an Application.cfc lower down in the tree could include one in a higher-level directory. You refer to set session vars in the webroot application.cfc, but you don't say where -- or differentiate between creating the vars and setting them. Typically, you might set up a session structure in the onSessionStart method. But depending on what you intend to keep in the session scope, actually setting the values is generally done elsewhere. If this hasn't answered your question well enough, maybe you could share some code so we can see better what you're trying to do. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Assistance with Page Explosion
Leif, On 9/6/07, Leif Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The error message I am getting (intermittently) is: Element TITLE is undefined in EVENT. Obviously, this means that somehow either the event object is not getting created or that there is no title property in the object. Or at least that is what I think is going on. It's pretty certain that it's the latter: no TITLE. Otherwise, the error message would refer to the lack of an EVENT. But EVENT could simply be an empty struct. Since the code you included doesn't go into how the EVENT is retrieved (it's just getEvent() or getNextEvent()), there's no way for us to know exactly what's up. Could you try dumping the EVENT object to see if the TITLE is always there? I'm guessing that the event.title variable is the first instance of an EVENT attribute within the page. You could try commenting it out and see if the error occurs again, this time with a reference to whatever the next EVENT property referenced in the page is. What seems most likely is that getEvent() is not returning the struct you're expecting. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Assistance with Page Explosion
Lief, You should definitely spin up a test page that calls both methods and dump the results to see what's up. I don't see a problem with your SQL right off. The one thing I do see is: cffunction name=getNextEvent access=public maxrows=1 returnType=query output=false hint=Gets the next event by date cfquery name=q datasource=#instance.dsn# username=#instance.username# password=#instance.password# Be sure to always var scope variables in a function. After the opening cffunction tag, you need: cfset var q = / -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CFEclipse question - default project
Seth, I'm not sure how you can re-set the default workspace -- which is the default space for saving projects. There's no obvious mechanism or documentation, and this question has been asked in a number of forums. But it's simple enough, when creating a project, to point it wherever you want. Eclipse will still keep track of it, and keep it in the Navigator tab. I often create the project in a space on my dev server, which is also the actual web space. I've been using Eclipse for probably a year and a half, and I still feel overwhelmed sometimes. It's the nature of the plug-in architecture it's built on. I just bang away, knowing there's all sorts of functionality I just don't even know about. Jeff, Aside from the cost issue can anyone give me some input on the pros and cons of Eclipse vs. DW/Homesite? I think they'll become pretty obvious as you continue to use Eclipse. It's going to feel unfamiliar and clunky for a long, long time. But I think you'll find it's worth the trouble. Homesite's dead, as far as Adobe's concerned. They support CFEclipse (sorta) and obviously use Eclipse for FlexBuilder. Actually, that's one good reason to get used to Eclipse. You'll probably want to start working with Flex, too. And that illustrates why Eclipse is a good tool: folks can, and do, constantly build new tools as plug-ins on top of it. You'll find yourself adding Javascript editors and XML editors and database tools that you prefer. Mark Drew, the CFEclipse guy, has already released CF8 syntax libraries for CFEclipse. And Adobe provides RDS plug-ins, if you've gotten used to them in Homesite. If you need to build visually, you'll use Dreamweaver. If not, you'll use Eclipse. I go back and forth all the time. And the more you separate presentation from the model, the more your individual files are going to be either all code, or all display with a little logic thrown in. So using both comes pretty naturally. There's a CFEclipse mailing list, by the way, although there's not a lot of activity on it. But if you ask questions there, people will help. And you'll find Eclipse-related conversations on CF-Talk, too. Good luck with it. You'll like it -- eventually. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - Annual Sponsor FigLeaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] code frameworks
I would certainly add my vote for Model-Glue to Dean's. I've used both Mach-II and Model-Glue a good bit, and Model-Glue seems to have a simpler, more understandable way of working. And it's well-integrated for use with other frameworks. Dean mentioned ColdSpring, which operates seamlessly with Model-Glue to inject needed objects into other objects. While I feel like I've barely touched the surface of what ColdSpring can do, it's most basic functionality makes you wonder how you lived without it. Model-Glue also has built-in integration with both Reactor and Transfer, the ORM frameworks which are being used a lot nowadays. However, none of those other frameworks are necessary to Model-Glue. Frankly, Model-Glue makes assembling the content for a page so simple, I even use it for largely static sites. If you're not used to object-oriented programming, all these frameworks take getting used to. Even the most recent version of Fusebox can be object-oriented, if you want it to be. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF Shopping Carts
I can't claim worlds of experience with CF carts, but I just implemented a site using Quill Design's Site Director, and it was a pleasure. Works great out of the box. Exceptional clean, modular code that's well-commented. Very, very quick response on e-mail support by the developer, Paul Giesenhagen. Only downside so far: no formal documentation. The code is well-commented and easy to follow, everything's very intuitive to set up -- but no docs. http://www.quilldesign.com. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] cfqueryparam and NULL attribute SQL Server 2005
Jeff, Bottom line, why is isnerting the string null into my db instead of NULL??? There's nothing in the code you showed that would insert that value. Just a guess, but -- is your old code in place, the code that tried to create null in a string value? You're experiencing the same behavior you describe when using your old code. And the only way that a string value of null would be inserted is if the variable held that value before you ran the INSERT. In that case, your yesNoFormat function would return false, because the form variable would have a length. And the string null would be inserted. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Petshop
Hi Seth, As I remember, PetShop is/was one of Macromedia's sample applications. I don't remember anyone using it to show the use of multiple frameworks, although they may have. But what you may be referring to is Sean Corfield's Cat Club sample, which he did as part of his frameworks presentation last year. Go to his blog http://www.corfield.org/blog/index.cfm and click on Frameworks Sample Code in the Software pod at the upper right of the page. There's also a PDF of his frameworks presentation there, too, if you're interested. I'm not sure if the sample code has been updated since about June -- I don't think it has. And Model-Glue and Mach-II have undergone some changes since then. But it should certainly give you a good basis for comparison. -- Thanks, Tom Tom McNeer MediumCool http://www.mediumcool.com 1735 Johnson Road NE Atlanta, GA 30306 404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Frameworks
MCG,On 6/13/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I do like the 'initial' aspect of MG, but no one on our little team has any experience with it plus I am concerned about the OO skill level on the team. Would using an OO framework like MG make up for lack of OO skills? Just to expand a bit on what others have already stated: you can't use MG without learning OO to some extent. But if your team is at all familiar with using CFCs, they've begun to work with objects. And the whole bit of separating things into proper tiers and keeping encapsulation is something you learn as you go along. You can develop without that separation and things will work fine. Maintenance will be harder, but that's part of the learning curve. For instance, when I built my first Mach-II app, I understood the idea of calling listener objects. But I aggregated both the business rules and the database code within those listeners. That's not good OO design, but it works. And I learned how to separate things better for the next project. For me, at least, learning to use a framework that is object-oriented helped (is still helping) me learn OO concepts. I think that would be true for your team, too.Besides -- what you actually have to learn to get started in MG (or Mach-II, for that matter) is not so much object orientation, but rather the use of an event model, and how components can be created to listen for events or messages. You also have to learn how the framework puts events and views together. And you have to get used to the Model-View-Controller concept. But you could construct an entire application by creating a single Controller to do everything. And within that Controller, you could place all your business logic and database code. While that's not an ideal architecture, by any means, it works. And it's not awful to build things that way while learning. Actually, it teaches you a lot. If you download Sean Corfield's Frameworks sample code (which I believe has already been mentioned in this thread), you'll see that even Sean -- in this simple application -- aggregated a lot of stuff that he would normally separate into different components/objects. They work - but he readily states that these samples shouldn't be taken as best practices. (This is also a useful set of apps because it shows the same app in multiple frameworks, including MG and Fusebox.) -- Thanks,TomTom McNeerMediumCoolhttp://www.mediumcool.com530 Means St NW, Suite 110Atlanta, GA 30318404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Frameworks
I'll second the recommendation for Model-Glue. I've built apps using MachII, and I've having to re-learn some stuff now that I'm working with Model-Glue. But overall, I would say that Model-Glue will be easier to learn. Just know that either requires learning object-oriented architecture, which is its own giant step. In fact, I'd say that's the biggest hump to get over: getting into an object-oriented, tiered mindset. Another reason to consider Model-Glue is that there is heavy development going on in integrating ColdSpring (a framework that does depency injection and a bunch of other stuff) and Reactor (an ORM framework that creates active records somewhat like Ruby on Rails does, and lets you create or update a record by just doing ' myRecord.save()' - without having to write the query statement) with Model-Glue. You don't have to use these to use Model-Glue, but you'll probably want to. All of these frameworks are on track to release at CFUnited late this month (at least, they hope so). The core will be Model-Glue 2.0, which Joe Rinehart, the developer, is calling a Unity release. Take a look at http://www.model-glue.com and Joe's blog entries at http://clearsoftware.net/index.cfm?You can find info about ColdSpring at http://www.coldspringframework.org/index.cfm? and Reactor at http://www.doughughes.net.All three frameworks have very active - and helpful mailing lists.-Thanks,TomTom McNeerMediumCoolhttp://www.mediumcool.com 530 Means St NW, Suite 110Atlanta, GA 30318404.589.0560 - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
