Re: Okay so has nothing to do with programming, and everything to do with the future of Humanity

[Brandon Keith Biggs]

Hello,
I am talking about even more basic than this.

◾ Should I use Apache, Gunicorn, uWSGI or something else?

Honestly I have only heard of Apache and have only seen Gunicorn in 
relation to Mezzanine. I have no idea what Gunicorn is!


◾ Where should I use caching to make things faster?

I know this because I've been building WordPress websites for about a 
year now, so sometimes I need to worry about caching, but how to do this 
with Django, I have no idea.


◾ How do I know if my database has the right indexes or if it needs more 
resources?


Frankly, I know nothing about DBs other than sqlite is a nice place to 
store data and is an alternative to pickling if one wishes to save lots 
of data across sessions. I know most places use My SQL, but I've never 
seen any reason to go away from sqlite and I just do it because people 
say I should.


◾ Do I need a NoSQL database like MongoDB?

What is MongoDB?

◾ The site runs great on my laptop. Why is it so slow in production?

Erm because you either are running off your home computer which needs to 
send data through your personal router or because your server is horrible.


◾ How many servers does my site need? How big should they be?

I never considered a site would need to have more than 1...

◾ What is the 20% effort that will solve 80% of my performance problems?

Probably using python and brython rather than PHP and Javascript...

So I know python really well, I just know nothing about web development. 
The most difficult parts of django are figuring out how get and post 
work, writing templates, dealing with the DB API and deploying.


The building your first app in django tutorial is great, but I kind of 
would like a couple more completely different apps. I just don't 
understand how the web works from such a short tutorial.
Django claims that it is not magic, but for me, most of it is magic at 
this point. Sometimes the connections are really difficult to follow. 
Sometimes I don't want to know some of the connections, I just want to 
know what they do and why. It is like event queues in a game engine. One 
doesn't need to know what kind of event queue the engine is running in 
order to capture the different events or how they use different threads 
to grab input, but I do need to know that when the user hits enter my 
on_input or my on_keydown function will run.


But when people throw around terms like Ajax, caching, Gunicorn, uWSGI, 
database, URI, canonical request or anything like that, people who have 
never worked with the web kind of nod and say oh yeah, yep! What ever 
you say!
So I would say the tutorial you pointed to looks like an intermediate or 
advanced newbie tutorial. Not really basic at all.

Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs 
On 7/22/2015 5:04 AM, JJ Zolper wrote:

Brandon,

I think we may be talking about different aspects of running a 
website. Using a CMS is another topic in relation to what I was aiming 
for.


I'm referring to the skills involved in managing the server 
infrastructure of a live website, not managing the content of a live 
website. I'm talking about things like Amazon Web Services, load 
balancing, caching, and so on.


I got railed big time before because I suggest the community leverage 
the skills of: https://highperformancedjango.com/.


Okay sure I get it the guy's at Lincoln Loop wrote the book and they 
are best friends with the Django community, but I don't think that 
should stop the community from either writing out own interpretation 
of what it takes to be the sys admin of a live website at the 
technology level. We need to begin working together to create 
consensus and sharing knowledge. We need to begin learning from each 
other in the public eye. If we want Django to be the best it can be we 
need to have a real discussion about how we can go about writing docs 
on the tools and skills needed for running a live Django website. I 
don't care how the Django higher ups want to do it but I think it's 
something we need to at least get the ball rolling on. I know it's 
more work but it's something we can just keep iterating on as a 
community slowly but surely.


Brandon, the only part I see being relevant to what this thread is 
about is running a server for a game. For client vs server side you 
would use AJAX / Javascript on the client and Django on the server 
side. The scores thing is something you will have to do some research 
on first. Learn the basics before you try to run.


JJ
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Re: Okay so has nothing to do with programming, and everything to do with the future of Humanity

[JJ Zolper]

I do want to append to my remarks that I am very appreciative of some of 
the new documentation under performance, optimization, etc. I just think if 
say we could bring in some big guns that have dealt with big time websites 
in the wild that would be super dynamic for our community. People who know 
first hand what to do with subjects such as load balancing, sharding, 
server crashes, scaling, monitoring, and every other fun thing one must 
deal with out in the wild.

Thanks to all.

<3 JJ

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Re: Okay so has nothing to do with programming, and everything to do with the future of Humanity

[JJ Zolper]

Brandon,

I think we may be talking about different aspects of running a website. 
Using a CMS is another topic in relation to what I was aiming for.

I'm referring to the skills involved in managing the server infrastructure 
of a live website, not managing the content of a live website. I'm talking 
about things like Amazon Web Services, load balancing, caching, and so on.

I got railed big time before because I suggest the community leverage the 
skills of: https://highperformancedjango.com/.

Okay sure I get it the guy's at Lincoln Loop wrote the book and they are 
best friends with the Django community, but I don't think that should stop 
the community from either writing out own interpretation of what it takes 
to be the sys admin of a live website at the technology level. We need to 
begin working together to create consensus and sharing knowledge. We need 
to begin learning from each other in the public eye. If we want Django to 
be the best it can be we need to have a real discussion about how we can go 
about writing docs on the tools and skills needed for running a live Django 
website. I don't care how the Django higher ups want to do it but I think 
it's something we need to at least get the ball rolling on. I know it's 
more work but it's something we can just keep iterating on as a community 
slowly but surely.

Brandon, the only part I see being relevant to what this thread is about is 
running a server for a game. For client vs server side you would use AJAX / 
Javascript on the client and Django on the server side. The scores thing is 
something you will have to do some research on first. Learn the basics 
before you try to run.

JJ

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Re: Okay so has nothing to do with programming, and everything to do with the future of Humanity

[Brandon Keith Biggs]

Hello,
I totally agree with you, there should be some way to bridge new 
developers into django from python and focus on getting a web presence.
Have you taken a look at Mezzanine? It is a very nice CMS that has all 
the elements to be a perfect bridge into django and the only problems 
are the real newbies coming in and shaping the whole system.
But another thing I would like to know and I'm sure other people would 
like to know, is how to run a server for either a game or to collect 
data from a client-side application and get it on the server-side. 
Something for high scores and whatnot. How can one do that with django?

Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs 
On 7/20/2015 1:40 AM, JJ Zolper wrote:
I just want to put it out there that even if I have received a lot of 
negative vibes from the posts I have made, my only intention is that I 
aim to bring about a positive future for Django but also those who 
want to change the world with their website applications. Maybe some 
of the posts I have made aren't considered politically correct, but 
the only reason I made them is because I want to see Django make a 
major positive impact on the world. For example I think we need to 
make it extremely more seamless for people with a passion for 
innovating in the web space to get their deployed and live websites to 
the level of being the best they can be. That is why I made a post 
about trying to excite raise the level of effort invested into 
documentation about optimizing deployment. I think there needs to be 
more guidance and a community based effort at consolidating 
information in relation to running a live website. Whether it's the 
database, the Django views, the template language, the entire picture. 
We need to list the tools that make running a Django website more 
seamless instead of leaving that to a guessing game. We need to set 
guidelines that help people get their website running in the real 
world and in this way we can iterate over what are the best practices 
to achieve each and every person's goals.


Thanks for reading and your understanding. In signing off it must be 
noted everything I have done has been in my view of the best interest 
of Django no matter what it has seemed to some.


Thanks again,

JJ
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Okay so has nothing to do with programming, and everything to do with the future of Humanity

[JJ Zolper]

I just want to put it out there that even if I have received a lot of 
negative vibes from the posts I have made, my only intention is that I aim 
to bring about a positive future for Django but also those who want to 
change the world with their website applications. Maybe some of the posts I 
have made aren't considered politically correct, but the only reason I made 
them is because I want to see Django make a major positive impact on the 
world. For example I think we need to make it extremely more seamless for 
people with a passion for innovating in the web space to get their deployed 
and live websites to the level of being the best they can be. That is why I 
made a post about trying to excite raise the level of effort invested into 
documentation about optimizing deployment. I think there needs to be more 
guidance and a community based effort at consolidating information in 
relation to running a live website. Whether it's the database, the Django 
views, the template language, the entire picture. We need to list the tools 
that make running a Django website more seamless instead of leaving that to 
a guessing game. We need to set guidelines that help people get their 
website running in the real world and in this way we can iterate over what 
are the best practices to achieve each and every person's goals.

Thanks for reading and your understanding. In signing off it must be noted 
everything I have done has been in my view of the best interest of Django 
no matter what it has seemed to some.

Thanks again,

JJ

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