Why Django doesn't force testing?
Hey, One nice thing about JBoss Seam and Rails is they encourage unit testing from the very beginning. Django as an agile web framework, why doesn't follow the same philosophy? Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
Why should django encourage? Django offers everything one needs to do it so if you want to unit test your code, you can just do it. And if you dont care, you can either. HB schrieb: > Hey, > One nice thing about JBoss Seam and Rails is they encourage unit > testing from the very beginning. > Django as an agile web framework, why doesn't follow the same > philosophy? > Thanks. > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en > -~--~~~~--~~--~--~-- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
Wiadomość napisana w dniu 2009-01-05, o godz. 12:27, przez HB: > One nice thing about JBoss Seam and Rails is they encourage unit > testing from the very beginning. > Django as an agile web framework, why doesn't follow the same > philosophy? Because it's a "web framework", not "agile framework"? Just guessing, I'm not a core dev. -- We read Knuth so you don't have to. - Tim Peters Jarek Zgoda, R&D, Redefine jarek.zg...@redefine.pl --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
I'm a Java guy playing around Django so what I will say may not be valid. When I say "encourage testing" I mean generating tests cases whenever we create a Django entity (like model for example). Creating integration testing (like Seam application tests). Include code coverage tool. Include code complexity tool. Supports profiles (dev, test, prod) I will post other thought as I get them :) On Jan 5, 2:22 pm, "Russell Keith-Magee" wrote: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:04 PM, HB wrote: > > > Sure, I mean encourage not force :) > > Ok, then - what could we do to encourage testing? > > We have a test framework; it is documented, there are plenty of blog > entries around that discuss how to use it, and there are some > utilities in the community (such as testmaker) that can be used to > assist. However, if there is something else we could be doing to > encourage more people to use the test framework, I'm all for it. > > I have two ideas that I've been intending to work on since I had some > discussions at DjangoCon. In the interests of full disclosure, I've > just opened tickets describing them; time permitting, they will be in > place before v1.1. > > 1) #9963: Include a dummy test as part of the empty stub application > that is produced by manage.py startapp. This is a fairly simple > addition, but well worth it IMHO. > > 2) #9962: Write a official tutorial on testing. This one is a little > more effort. If someone wants to volunteer a draft before I get around > to writing one myself, I'm happy to proofread any offerings as > candidates for trunk. > > Of course, any other suggestions are more than welcome. > > Yours, > Russ Magee %-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 03:27 -0800, HB wrote: > Hey, > One nice thing about JBoss Seam and Rails is they encourage unit > testing from the very beginning. > Django as an agile web framework, why doesn't follow the same > philosophy? Your assumption seems to be mistaken. Djang does encourage testing. I don't know about "force", since that sounds like making you do something for some other reason than because it's a good idea (Python is a language for consenting adults, after all), but Django has quite strong testing support. Regards, Malcolm --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
> Your email client apparently failed to generate tests for your > message, resulting in a misunderstanding. Which leads us to that we should be forced to write tests, not encouraged :) On Jan 5, 3:30 pm, James Bennett wrote: > On Jan 5, 6:04 am, HB wrote: > > > Sure, I mean encourage not force :) > > Your email client apparently failed to generate tests for your > message, resulting in a misunderstanding. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
Sure, I mean encourage not force :) On Jan 5, 1:53 pm, Malcolm Tredinnick wrote: > On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 03:27 -0800, HB wrote: > > Hey, > > One nice thing about JBoss Seam and Rails is they encourage unit > > testing from the very beginning. > > Django as an agile web framework, why doesn't follow the same > > philosophy? > > Your assumption seems to be mistaken. Djang does encourage testing. I > don't know about "force", since that sounds like making you do something > for some other reason than because it's a good idea (Python is a > language for consenting adults, after all), but Django has quite strong > testing support. > > Regards, > Malcolm --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
On Jan 5, 6:04 am, HB wrote: > Sure, I mean encourage not force :) Your email client apparently failed to generate tests for your message, resulting in a misunderstanding. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:04 PM, HB wrote: > > Sure, I mean encourage not force :) Ok, then - what could we do to encourage testing? We have a test framework; it is documented, there are plenty of blog entries around that discuss how to use it, and there are some utilities in the community (such as testmaker) that can be used to assist. However, if there is something else we could be doing to encourage more people to use the test framework, I'm all for it. I have two ideas that I've been intending to work on since I had some discussions at DjangoCon. In the interests of full disclosure, I've just opened tickets describing them; time permitting, they will be in place before v1.1. 1) #9963: Include a dummy test as part of the empty stub application that is produced by manage.py startapp. This is a fairly simple addition, but well worth it IMHO. 2) #9962: Write a official tutorial on testing. This one is a little more effort. If someone wants to volunteer a draft before I get around to writing one myself, I'm happy to proofread any offerings as candidates for trunk. Of course, any other suggestions are more than welcome. Yours, Russ Magee %-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
Take a look at Django test utils(formerly test maker) (http:// github.com/ericholscher/django-test-utils/tree/master ), this features some of what you're talking about, helping generate test cases for the user. Ultimately it comes down to the developer knowing more about their application than Django can. You don't want Django generating useless test cases for you just to have tests, you want to test things that might reasonably break, and Django can't just guess at what those would be. If you know of any good strategies for good test generation though a) feel free to let us know, and b) talk to Eric Holscher(the author of django-test-utils), just about anything can be done outside of Django itself so you can always start by implementing it there. Alex On Jan 5, 6:38 am, HB wrote: > I'm a Java guy playing around Django so what I will say may not be > valid. > When I say "encourage testing" I mean generating tests cases whenever > we create a Django entity (like model for example). > Creating integration testing (like Seam application tests). > Include code coverage tool. > Include code complexity tool. > Supports profiles (dev, test, prod) > I will post other thought as I get them :) > > On Jan 5, 2:22 pm, "Russell Keith-Magee" > wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:04 PM, HB wrote: > > > > Sure, I mean encourage not force :) > > > Ok, then - what could we do to encourage testing? > > > We have a test framework; it is documented, there are plenty of blog > > entries around that discuss how to use it, and there are some > > utilities in the community (such as testmaker) that can be used to > > assist. However, if there is something else we could be doing to > > encourage more people to use the test framework, I'm all for it. > > > I have two ideas that I've been intending to work on since I had some > > discussions at DjangoCon. In the interests of full disclosure, I've > > just opened tickets describing them; time permitting, they will be in > > place before v1.1. > > > 1) #9963: Include a dummy test as part of the empty stub application > > that is produced by manage.py startapp. This is a fairly simple > > addition, but well worth it IMHO. > > > 2) #9962: Write a official tutorial on testing. This one is a little > > more effort. If someone wants to volunteer a draft before I get around > > to writing one myself, I'm happy to proofread any offerings as > > candidates for trunk. > > > Of course, any other suggestions are more than welcome. > > > Yours, > > Russ Magee %-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why Django doesn't force testing?
As Russell Keith-Magee suggested having a tutorial on how to do testing is a good way to go. Modifying the django tutorial in the docs to include testing in it should help new-commers get used to testing. Also, having tests in the docs should help convince people that testing is the right way to go. -- My place to share my ideas: http://bolddream.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
