Re: [dmarc-discuss] Fwd: Re: Help

[John Levine via dmarc-discuss]

In article <869d643b-7594-4bad-8929-9afdea01d...@portadmiral.org> you write:
>Yes, there are folks who don’t know. I am an administrator for 17 mailing 
>lists using different technologies,
>and I belong to several more. Mailman is different from Yahoo Groups is 
>different from Google Groups is
>different from L-Soft’s listserv (where most of my lists are). And every one 
>has different subscribe and
>unsubscribe options.

The would be a good time to upgrade your mail program to one that
handles the List-Unsubscribe header that was defined in RFC 2369 in
1998 and that is present on every message sent to this list as well as
on messages from Yahoogroups and most othe list systems.  Then you're
one click away from unsubscribing for any mailing list.



> And every one of my lists has a link to unsubscribe in the footer. Just as 
> this list should
>and is required by law, at least in the US. This is the only list I have 
>encountered that does not follow this practice.

You appear to be misstating 15 USC 7704 (a)(3) which requires opt-out
contact info in commercial electronic mail messages.  Except that
"commercial electronic mail message" is defined in 15 USC 7702 (2),
and this list clearly isn't it, so the requirement doesn't apply.  (I
get to play junior lawyer because I've been an expert witness in CAN
SPAM criminal court cases.)

By the way, each message to this list does have a URL in the footer,
which does indeed lead to the mailman page where you can unsubscribe.
Try it.

R's,
John
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Re: [dmarc-discuss] Fwd: Re: Help

[Jonathan Knopp via dmarc-discuss]

To play devil's advocate: it doesn't explicitly provide unsubscribe 
instructions directly in the email itself. A non-savvy user likely wouldn't 
think to follow the non-obvious info link in the footer. And not all mail 
clients make use of the list-unsubscribe header.

That said... why would any such person be on this list in the first place?

On 2018-09-26 02:11 PM, Brandon Long via dmarc-discuss wrote:

Wait, folks are on this list who don't know the basics?

Ie:
List-Unsubscribe: , 
?subject=unsubscribe>

on every message?

Also, the link in the footer, 
http://www.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc-discuss, has a section that is the 
same on all mailman lists:
To unsubscribe from dmarc-discuss, get a password reminder, or change your 
subscription options enter your subscription email address:

So.. yeah.

Brandon

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM Lawrence Finch via dmarc-discuss 
mailto:dmarc-discuss@dmarc.org>> wrote:




On Sep 26, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Bongaerts Contract via dmarc-discuss 
mailto:dmarc-discuss@dmarc.org>> wrote:

Hello, Would someone please be kind enough to tell me how to Unsubscribe 
from these emails ?

Thank you.

Carl Bongaerts    Tel: 416-831-7841



You raise a really good question. The list violates US federal regulations 
by not providing instructions in every message about how to unsubscribe. And I 
just went to the Info page for the list, and there were no instructions to 
unsubscribe there either.

--
Larry Finch
finc...@portadmiral.org 



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Re: [dmarc-discuss] Fwd: Re: Help

[Brandon Long via dmarc-discuss]

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 2:22 PM Lawrence Finch via dmarc-discuss <
dmarc-discuss@dmarc.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Sep 26, 2018, at 5:11 PM, Brandon Long  wrote:
>
> Wait, folks are on this list who don't know the basics?
>
> Ie:
> List-Unsubscribe: ,
> 
>
> on every message?
>
> Also, the link in the footer,
> http://www.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc-discuss, has a section that
> is the same on all mailman lists:
> To unsubscribe from dmarc-discuss, get a password reminder, or change your
> subscription options enter your subscription email address:
>
> So.. yeah.
>
> Brandon
>
>
> Yes, there are folks who don’t know. I am an administrator for 17 mailing
> lists using different technologies, and I belong to several more. Mailman
> is different from Yahoo Groups is different from Google Groups is different
> from L-Soft’s listserv (where most of my lists are). And every one has
> different subscribe and unsubscribe options. And every one of my lists has
> a link to unsubscribe in the footer. Just as this list should and is
> required by law, at least in the US. This is the only list I have
> encountered that does not follow this practice.
>

Citation needed.  CAN-SPAM refers to only commercial mail, which this list
is certainly not.  And the link in the footer does provide unsubscribe
instructions.

Brandon
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Re: [dmarc-discuss] Fwd: Re: Help

[Lawrence Finch via dmarc-discuss]

> On Sep 26, 2018, at 5:11 PM, Brandon Long  wrote:
> 
> Wait, folks are on this list who don't know the basics?
> 
> Ie:
> List-Unsubscribe:  >, 
>  ?subject=unsubscribe>
> 
> on every message?
> 
> Also, the link in the footer, 
> http://www.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc-discuss 
> , has a section that is 
> the same on all mailman lists:
> To unsubscribe from dmarc-discuss, get a password reminder, or change your 
> subscription options enter your subscription email address:
> 
> So.. yeah.
> 
> Brandon

Yes, there are folks who don’t know. I am an administrator for 17 mailing lists 
using different technologies, and I belong to several more. Mailman is 
different from Yahoo Groups is different from Google Groups is different from 
L-Soft’s listserv (where most of my lists are). And every one has different 
subscribe and unsubscribe options. And every one of my lists has a link to 
unsubscribe in the footer. Just as this list should and is required by law, at 
least in the US. This is the only list I have encountered that does not follow 
this practice.



--
Larry Finch
finc...@portadmiral.org



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Re: [dmarc-discuss] Fwd: Re: Help

[Brandon Long via dmarc-discuss]

Wait, folks are on this list who don't know the basics?

Ie:
List-Unsubscribe: , 

on every message?

Also, the link in the footer,
http://www.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc-discuss, has a section that is
the same on all mailman lists:
To unsubscribe from dmarc-discuss, get a password reminder, or change your
subscription options enter your subscription email address:

So.. yeah.

Brandon

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM Lawrence Finch via dmarc-discuss <
dmarc-discuss@dmarc.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Sep 26, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Bongaerts Contract via dmarc-discuss <
> dmarc-discuss@dmarc.org> wrote:
>
> Hello, Would someone please be kind enough to tell me how to Unsubscribe
> from these emails ?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Carl BongaertsTel: 416-831-7841
>
>
> You raise a really good question. The list violates US federal regulations
> by not providing instructions in every message about how to unsubscribe.
> And I just went to the Info page for the list, and there were no
> instructions to unsubscribe there either.
>
> --
> Larry Finch
> finc...@portadmiral.org
>
>
>
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>
> NOTE: Participating in this list means you agree to the DMARC Note Well
> terms (http://www.dmarc.org/note_well.html)
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