Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tue, Jan 01, 2019 at 10:03:29PM -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: > > The degree of attentiveness we now > > demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a > > couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is > > counterproductive. > > > > I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to live. Actually, there is a genetic component to attention deficit. > The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of years BC > surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual traits/skills/talents > are the resultants of the quality of our past actions over millennia. IOW we > start a life with what what is commensurate to who we have been. So choose > wisely. What's weird is how attention deficit seems to be paired with an ability to hyperfocus. If properly directed (which can be difficult -- the attention-deficit-afflicted don't hav that much control over it) it's what enables someone to focus on tracking down a bug for hours if necessary, forgetting all else. Attention deficit is a rather paradoxical syndrome. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 15:40, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..these from https://devuan.org/os/filenaming could use clarification: desktop-live: refracta installer for bios or uefi (recommended for reviews) ..this gives "tech" magazine writers the best impression to base their review story on? I have pushed changes for the Visual guides to master and also a few other tweaks including the one mentioned above. That list on the filenaming page is now more aligned with the other iso lists. I also rewrote/reorganized the "Package repositories" partial which appears in several places. I am now going through that entire thread to see if I missed anything. At some point one other guide will appear for the desktop-live cli install. Thanks to all for the suggestions. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 15:25, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 7:51 PM, wrote: We do not have to write specific Windows guides to mention Unetbootin which will work for Linux, Windows and Mac. Of course we will have to tell the authors of Unetbootin to add Devuan to the pre-selected distros to make it complete. Grtz. Nick Is anyone willing to do the footwork to make this happen? Thanks. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 02-01-19 01:53, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2019-01-01 15:25, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: >> >> We do not have to write specific Windows guides to mention Unetbootin >> which will work for Linux, Windows and Mac. >> >> Of course we will have to tell the authors of Unetbootin to add Devuan >> to the pre-selected distros to make it complete. >> >> Grtz. >> >> Nick >> > > Would you be willing to contact them about this? > > Thanks, > > golinux > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng No need for that, they have a relative simple way to add your own distro: https://github.com/unetbootin/unetbootin/wiki/newdistro Grtz Nick signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-02 05:50, Andres Suarez wrote: В Ср, 02/01/2019 в 00:48 -0600, goli...@dyne.org пишет: On 2019-01-01 23:46, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: > On 02/01/2019, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: > > > The degree of attentiveness we now > > > demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a > > > couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is > > > counterproductive. > > > > > > > I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to > > live. The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of > > years > > BC surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual > > traits/skills/talents are the resultants of the quality of our past > > actions over millennia. IOW we start a life with what what is > > commensurate to whom we have been. So choose wisely. > > > > golinux > > > > What 'consciousness' you are talking about?! > I am talking about the consciousness/awareness that receives data in the form of eye:sights, ear:sounds, nose:smells, tongue:tastes, body:physical sensations and mind:thoughts. It is the mere reception of these stimuli that turns our inner world and outer world so it's to our advantage to get to know the interaction between stimulation and response intimately. Without great awareness in the present moment, we are carried along by emotional reactions to events instead of actually knowing and understanding them. More often than not, that impulsive reactiveness brings us much misery and pain. But if that same consciousness is harnessed to focus on this never-ending stream of events moment to moment, it begins to understand them in a very different way and changes the mind at a fundamental level. The ability to touch that understanding has declined over the last 2500+ years and there will come a time when that knowledge will be forgotten. But it will be rediscovered sometime in the very distant future because it it cyclical as all things are. golinux Beg pardon for the interruption: but actually that ability has increased in the last millennia. What hominids had 2500+ years ago was a primitive sense of reality, which gave rise to all that mysticism which prevails so far. Consciousness, defined as advanced awareness, was the last part to develop. That function allows you to build "Devuan Linux" instead of mixing with the sheep. You are confusing "thinking" which observes and manipulates external data with "knowing" which is a highly developed internal awareness of how incoming data interacts with our sensory organs and how that in turn generates unconscious knee-jerk emotional reactions that can lead to rather unpleasant, harmful consequences. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
В Ср, 02/01/2019 в 00:48 -0600, goli...@dyne.org пишет: > On 2019-01-01 23:46, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: > > On 02/01/2019, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > > On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > The degree of attentiveness we now > > > > demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a > > > > couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is > > > > counterproductive. > > > > > > > > > > I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to > > > live. The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of > > > years > > > BC surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual > > > traits/skills/talents are the resultants of the quality of our past > > > actions over millennia. IOW we start a life with what what is > > > commensurate to whom we have been. So choose wisely. > > > > > > golinux > > > > > > > What 'consciousness' you are talking about?! > > > > I am talking about the consciousness/awareness that receives data in the > form of eye:sights, ear:sounds, nose:smells, tongue:tastes, > body:physical sensations and mind:thoughts. It is the mere reception of > these stimuli that turns our inner world and outer world so it's to our > advantage to get to know the interaction between stimulation and > response intimately. > > Without great awareness in the present moment, we are carried along by > emotional reactions to events instead of actually knowing and > understanding them. More often than not, that impulsive reactiveness > brings us much misery and pain. But if that same consciousness is > harnessed to focus on this never-ending stream of events moment to > moment, it begins to understand them in a very different way and changes > the mind at a fundamental level. > > The ability to touch that understanding has declined over the last 2500+ > years and there will come a time when that knowledge will be forgotten. > But it will be rediscovered sometime in the very distant future because > it it cyclical as all things are. > > golinux > Beg pardon for the interruption: but actually that ability has increased in the last millennia. What hominids had 2500+ years ago was a primitive sense of reality, which gave rise to all that mysticism which prevails so far. Consciousness, defined as advanced awareness, was the last part to develop. That function allows you to build "Devuan Linux" instead of mixing with the sheep. -- Андрес Суарес мобильник +79310009732 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 23:46, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: On 02/01/2019, goli...@dyne.org wrote: On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: The degree of attentiveness we now demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is counterproductive. I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to live. The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of years BC surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual traits/skills/talents are the resultants of the quality of our past actions over millennia. IOW we start a life with what what is commensurate to whom we have been. So choose wisely. golinux What 'consciousness' you are talking about?! I am talking about the consciousness/awareness that receives data in the form of eye:sights, ear:sounds, nose:smells, tongue:tastes, body:physical sensations and mind:thoughts. It is the mere reception of these stimuli that turns our inner world and outer world so it's to our advantage to get to know the interaction between stimulation and response intimately. Without great awareness in the present moment, we are carried along by emotional reactions to events instead of actually knowing and understanding them. More often than not, that impulsive reactiveness brings us much misery and pain. But if that same consciousness is harnessed to focus on this never-ending stream of events moment to moment, it begins to understand them in a very different way and changes the mind at a fundamental level. The ability to touch that understanding has declined over the last 2500+ years and there will come a time when that knowledge will be forgotten. But it will be rediscovered sometime in the very distant future because it it cyclical as all things are. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 02/01/2019, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: >> The degree of attentiveness we now >> demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a >> couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is >> counterproductive. >> > > I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to > live. The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of years > BC surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual > traits/skills/talents are the resultants of the quality of our past > actions over millennia. IOW we start a life with what what is > commensurate to who we have been. So choose wisely. > > golinux > What 'consciousness' you are talking about?! So, according to you, speculation becomes proven facts? These 'dull days' a scientific hypothesis must pass through various stages to become a theory. I have a 'hypothesis' of how the human brain generates consciousness, but that, is only a USELESS UNPROVEN HYPOTHESIS irrespective of how intricate and detailed it may happen to be. Observe ---> hypothesize ---> publish ---> peer review ---> paradigm ---> theory Now, narcissists can start to manipulate what I wrote in the most puerile ways imaginable. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 22:03:29 -0600 goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: > > The degree of attentiveness we now > > demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a > > couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is > > counterproductive. > > > > I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to > live. The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of > years BC surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual > traits/skills/talents are the resultants of the quality of our past > actions over millennia. IOW we start a life with what what is > commensurate to who we have been. So choose wisely. If you're referring to reincarnation, I can't comment on that. As far as the Egyptions and the Central Americans building pyramids and the like, a few had the consciousness to figure that out: I don't think there's any evidence that Joe Sixpack Maya had this knowledge. Today I bet one out of every 200 people in the world can write a useful computer program. I think assigning blame to people with subnormal attention spans is a little like assigning blame to people with bad vision. It wasn't a choice. So the people with bad vision wear glasses and don't bother reading books written with 6 point type, while those with bad attention use outlines and don't bother reading writing or documentation that rambles. No blame. SteveT Steve Litt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 21:37, Steve Litt wrote: The degree of attentiveness we now demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is counterproductive. I beg to differ. It's not in the genetics. It's in how we choose to live. The level of consciousness in parts of the world hundreds of years BC surpasses what we are capable of today. Our individual traits/skills/talents are the resultants of the quality of our past actions over millennia. IOW we start a life with what what is commensurate to who we have been. So choose wisely. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 19:08:17 -0600 goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2019-01-01 15:40, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 13:51:58 -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote in > > message <80c73e7cb3edf956e191a56acaeb4...@dyne.org>: > > > >> This useful information is beyond the scope of these INSTALL > >> guides. But there are already pages on the website that cover much > >> of it. Does it really need to be repeated? > >> https://devuan.org/os/releases > >> https://devuan.org/os/filenaming > > > > ..I'd say yes, we _are_ dealing with humans, the very source of > > human errors, some errors happen because humans have gold fish type > > attention spans that make them forget what they read in 2 minutes > > ago, often because they watch waaay too much TV. ;o) > > > > Sadly, this is the world we live in. I agree that many have short attention spans (I'm one), but the judgmentalism and assumption of TV as a reason in the OP's post aren't helpful. 1. I grew up in a pre-ritalin society, and can tell you that a full 1/2 of the males in my classrooms had problems with attention span. We found workarounds including outlines, lists, and being picky about what books we read. If the author couldn't express himself succinctly, it wasn't our job to parse out his gobblety gook. 2. There was a time in human evolution when a short attention span was a survival trait. Nobody wants to put 100% of their attention on creating just the right arrowhead, and not notice the hungry tiger stalking 100 yards away. The degree of attentiveness we now demand in our workplaces has been a positive trait for only a couple centuries, and genetics hasn't caught up. So blame is counterproductive. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 15:40, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 13:51:58 -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message <80c73e7cb3edf956e191a56acaeb4...@dyne.org>: This useful information is beyond the scope of these INSTALL guides. But there are already pages on the website that cover much of it. Does it really need to be repeated? https://devuan.org/os/releases https://devuan.org/os/filenaming ..I'd say yes, we _are_ dealing with humans, the very source of human errors, some errors happen because humans have gold fish type attention spans that make them forget what they read in 2 minutes ago, often because they watch waaay too much TV. ;o) Sadly, this is the world we live in. desktop-live: refracta installer for bios or uefi (recommended for reviews) ..this gives "tech" magazine writers the best impression to base their review story on? It is the easiest way to have a quick look. minimal-live: refracta installer console-based system (focus on accessibility) ..this will work for blind people? Yes. KatolaZ has worked extensively with the speakup community and the iso has been tested by blind users on this list. netinst: classic network installer, downloads packages from the network ..we should add "all" or "ALL", saying "classic network installer, downloads ALL packages from the network." Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the base system installed from the iso and only the choices made during the installation process downloaded? cd: classic CD installer with base packages (not recommended for desktop) ..why not??? I had forgotten about that page. Yes that iso list from many years ago needs to be harmonized with the revisions on the site. > > Rename to “What Installation image should I chose?” > There has to be a more concise way of saying that. ;) Minimalism rules here. ;) ..some people need to be _told_ they can choose, before they will get off their ass choosing an option. I'll try to find a happy medium. That information is already on the index and get-devuan pages of the website as well as one of the links posted above. Those who will not seek will not find. ...and those who do not know or see they can or should seek, will not seek. Etc. Exactly. Not Devuan's problem. Cheers, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 15:25, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: We do not have to write specific Windows guides to mention Unetbootin which will work for Linux, Windows and Mac. Of course we will have to tell the authors of Unetbootin to add Devuan to the pre-selected distros to make it complete. Grtz. Nick Would you be willing to contact them about this? Thanks, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 15:04, chillfan--- via Dng wrote: Validating the images is optional but I think it's useful to tell people how this is done for those that want it. That part could easily be rewritten to be optional and a recommendation only. That's my suggestion for this anyway. So something like: Installation images distributed by Devuan are signed so that they can be verified as coming from Devuan. As an optional step you can verify images to let you know they have not been altered prior to you receiving them. I'll look at incorporating this later tonight. My preference would be for us not to repeat ourselves on the website in favour of simplicity, and instead just link to what we need in the intro. Yes. Please make a list of anything you think should be linked to and I'll incorporate into the site. About dd, I think that should be mentioned because otherwise users will look elsewhere and when it doesn't work they'll think our images are broken (this issue has come up before). So for users convenience and to be sure they are using dd correctly, we should provide those instructions. dd isn't going anywhere. Whilst we will have more information and documentation for new users, I don't think we should write Windows guides. I think that would lead us more in the direction of ubuntu and others who adopted systemd. Agreed. 'Nuf said. There have been way too many Windows/Ubuntu references in this thread. I need decontamination. LOLOL! We are not (and hopefully will never become) an Ubuntu/Windows refugee camp. Cheers, chillfan ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 05:52, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 11:01:44 +0100, aitor_czr wrote in message <93007179-fc33-c2ea-5fb4-00cd732f5...@gnuinos.org>: Happy 2019 :) On 1/1/19 10:46, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > Happy new year everyone! > > I've kicked off the new year with a late night session in gitlab > tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui > install. You can start here: > > https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html > > Navigation is at the bottom of the page. Please cycle through the > pages and report if anything is broken. If they look OK, I will > merge everything to master tomorrow. > > Thanks, > > golinux Very good job! ..maybe a wee tweak in section "1)" of: https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/live-gui.html where we might wanna mention the potential ramifications of leaving the default root password as "toor" going online during the install, e.g. with: "the default root password is toor and you want to change that default root password to anything else with the passwd command before proceding. Select your preferred option when you're ready." Just catching up on the backlog of emails. Thank you all for responding. @Arnt . . . Thanks. Very good point. I have gone online from a live CD many times and never given it a second thought! Duh! I just talked to fsr and I will add that info at the very top of the live-iso install guide as "Security alert". BTW, he of course knows about this, has often advised users as you suggest and is even in his documentation elsewhere. :) For those of you who might not know . . . chillfan (aka dev1fanboy) has written nearly all of the install, update, upgrade documentation for Devuan. plasma (formerly NewGnuGuy) also helped with the editing of these pages that were originally put together for inclusion on the ascii isos that use the debian-installer. Now, fsmithred has prepared the desktop-live content. This is a great team!! (golinux bows) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
I was thinking about wether this would be useful too. If I remember I didn't do this with the original guide because unetbootin has more than one way of doing things, which may just confuse users. But if they did include Devuan as a target that might solve the issue, depending what people think on using unetbootin. Cheers, chillfan ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 9:25 PM, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > On 01-01-19 22:04, chillfan--- via Dng wrote: > > > Validating the images is optional but I think it's useful to tell people > > how this is done for those that want it. That part could easily be > > rewritten to be optional and a recommendation only. That's my suggestion > > for this anyway. So something like: > > Installation images distributed by Devuan are signed so that they can be > > verified as coming from Devuan. As an optional step you can verify images > > to let you know they have not been altered prior to you receiving them. > > My preference would be for us not to repeat ourselves on the website in > > favour of simplicity, and instead just link to what we need in the intro. > > About dd, I think that should be mentioned because otherwise users will > > look elsewhere and when it doesn't work they'll think our images are broken > > (this issue has come up before). So for users convenience and to be sure > > they are using dd correctly, we should provide those instructions. > > Whilst we will have more information and documentation for new users, I > > don't think we should write Windows guides. I think that would lead us more > > in the direction of ubuntu and others who adopted systemd. > > Cheers, > > chillfan > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 7:51 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > We do not have to write specific Windows guides to mention Unetbootin > which will work for Linux, Windows and Mac. > > Of course we will have to tell the authors of Unetbootin to add Devuan > to the pre-selected distros to make it complete. > > Grtz. > > Nick publickey - chillfan@protonmail.com - 0xB179B25B.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 13:51:58 -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message
<80c73e7cb3edf956e191a56acaeb4...@dyne.org>:
> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed comments. Response inline
> below.
>
> On 2019-01-01 09:46, Michael wrote:
> > On Tuesday 01 January 2019 03:46:52 am goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> >> tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui
> >> install. You can start here:
> >>
> >> https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html
> >
> >
> > Hi golinux,
> >
> > These thoughts are from the angle of helping someone who’s never
> > done an
> > install of any OS before. My guess is most people haven’t, as when
> > buying a
> > new computer the OS is almost always already installed now days.
> >
> > I’ve added stubs where I can, but do edit for better user clarity!
> >
> > # # #
> >
> >
> > # # Sections to Add:
> >
> > = Which Release version is right for me?
> >
> > Explain when/why they should choose ASCII or Jessie.
> >
> > = {Explanation of the .iso naming scheme}
> >
> > devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso
> > ^^^ Who we are!
> >^^^ The Release name
> >^^^ The architecture
> > ^^^ The Installation image
> >
> > Needs fixed width to line up properly...
> >
> > = {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}
> >
>
> This useful information is beyond the scope of these INSTALL guides.
> But there are already pages on the website that cover much of it.
> Does it really need to be repeated?
> https://devuan.org/os/releases
> https://devuan.org/os/filenaming
..I'd say yes, we _are_ dealing with humans, the very source of human
errors, some errors happen because humans have gold fish type attention
spans that make them forget what they read in 2 minutes ago, often
because they watch waaay too much TV. ;o)
..these from https://devuan.org/os/filenaming could use clarification:
> desktop-live: refracta installer for bios or uefi (recommended for
> reviews)
..this gives "tech" magazine writers the best impression to base their
review story on?
> minimal-live: refracta installer console-based system (focus
> on accessibility)
..this will work for blind people?
> netinst: classic network installer, downloads packages from the
> network
..we should add "all" or "ALL", saying "classic network installer,
downloads ALL packages from the network."
..my understanding is all the other installers are be able to remain
offline while installing a working base OS that's ready to go safely
online to fetch whatever it needs to finish tweaking etc the installed
base OS.
> cd: classic CD installer with base packages (not recommended for
> desktop)
..why not???
> >
> > # # Section: Supported architectures
> >
> > Define what both of these mean.
> >
> > amd64: 64-bit CPUs, used for both Intel and AMD consumer level
> > CPUs. I386: 32-bit CPUs, ???
> >
>
> Again not really appropriate for the INSTALL guides. Hardware is
> s not my thing. If someone wants to do a write up, we can find a
> place for it somewhere on the website.
>
> >
> > # # Section: Installation images
> >
> > Rename to “What Installation image should I chose?”
> >
>
> There has to be a more concise way of saying that. ;) Minimalism
> rules here. ;)
..some people need to be _told_ they can choose, before
they will get off their ass choosing an option.
> >
> > Add Subsection: One install with access to the Internet?
> >
> > Use the `*_netinst.iso` which will install a base system then
> > download the
> > remaining packages during the installation process.
> >
> > Add Subsection: Multiple installs or no access to the Internet
> > during install?
> >
> > Choose the single `*_dvd-1.iso`. The image contains several desktop
> > choices
> > and additional software options. ...
> >
>
> That information is already on the index and get-devuan pages of the
> website as well as one of the links posted above. Those who will not
> seek will not find.
...and those who do not know or see they can or should seek, will not
seek. Etc.
> >
> > # # Section: Check the integrity of images
> >
> > Add how to for Windows. You can probably swipe Fedora’s? But
> > someone would
> > need to check both copyright concerns and that the instructions
> > work.
> >
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc/sect-Burning_ISO_images_to_disc-Validating_the_Files-Validating_at_the_Windows_Command_Prompt.html
> >
>
> Could you possibly provide that information for inclusion?
>
> >
> > # # Check the integrity of images Vs. Verify the images
> >
> > This isn’t my field, but??? If they’ve done a sha256sum, is there
> > any value
> > in checking a keychain? Or are these just two alternatives of the
> > same thing
> > and these two sections need to be sub-sections of the same section?
> >
>
> I think they are alternative ways of verifyin
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 01-01-19 22:04, chillfan--- via Dng wrote: > Validating the images is optional but I think it's useful to tell people how > this is done for those that want it. That part could easily be rewritten to > be optional and a recommendation only. That's my suggestion for this anyway. > So something like: > > Installation images distributed by Devuan are signed so that they can be > verified as coming from Devuan. As an optional step you can verify images to > let you know they have not been altered prior to you receiving them. > > My preference would be for us not to repeat ourselves on the website in > favour of simplicity, and instead just link to what we need in the intro. > > About dd, I think that should be mentioned because otherwise users will look > elsewhere and when it doesn't work they'll think our images are broken (this > issue has come up before). So for users convenience and to be sure they are > using dd correctly, we should provide those instructions. > > Whilst we will have more information and documentation for new users, I don't > think we should write Windows guides. I think that would lead us more in the > direction of ubuntu and others who adopted systemd. > > Cheers, > > chillfan > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 7:51 PM, wrote: > We do not have to write specific Windows guides to mention Unetbootin which will work for Linux, Windows and Mac. Of course we will have to tell the authors of Unetbootin to add Devuan to the pre-selected distros to make it complete. Grtz. Nick signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
Validating the images is optional but I think it's useful to tell people how
this is done for those that want it. That part could easily be rewritten to be
optional and a recommendation only. That's my suggestion for this anyway. So
something like:
Installation images distributed by Devuan are signed so that they can be
verified as coming from Devuan. As an optional step you can verify images to
let you know they have not been altered prior to you receiving them.
My preference would be for us not to repeat ourselves on the website in favour
of simplicity, and instead just link to what we need in the intro.
About dd, I think that should be mentioned because otherwise users will look
elsewhere and when it doesn't work they'll think our images are broken (this
issue has come up before). So for users convenience and to be sure they are
using dd correctly, we should provide those instructions.
Whilst we will have more information and documentation for new users, I don't
think we should write Windows guides. I think that would lead us more in the
direction of ubuntu and others who adopted systemd.
Cheers,
chillfan
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 7:51 PM, wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed comments. Response inline
> below.
>
> On 2019-01-01 09:46, Michael wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday 01 January 2019 03:46:52 am goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> >
> > > tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui
> > > install. You can start here:
> > > https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html
> >
> > Hi golinux,
> > These thoughts are from the angle of helping someone who’s never done
> > an
> > install of any OS before. My guess is most people haven’t, as when
> > buying a
> > new computer the OS is almost always already installed now days.
> > I’ve added stubs where I can, but do edit for better user clarity!
> >
> > #
> >
> > ==
> >
> > # Sections to Add:
> >
> > ===
> >
> > = Which Release version is right for me?
> > Explain when/why they should choose ASCII or Jessie.
> > = {Explanation of the .iso naming scheme}
> > devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso
> > ^^^ Who we are!
> > ^^^ The Release name
> > ^^^ The architecture
> > ^^^ The Installation image
> > Needs fixed width to line up properly...
> > = {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}
>
> This useful information is beyond the scope of these INSTALL guides. But
> there are already pages on the website that cover much of it. Does it
> really need to be repeated?
> https://devuan.org/os/releases
> https://devuan.org/os/filenaming
>
> > # Section: Supported architectures
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Define what both of these mean.
> > amd64: 64-bit CPUs, used for both Intel and AMD consumer level CPUs.
> > I386: 32-bit CPUs, ???
>
> Again not really appropriate for the INSTALL guides. Hardware is s
> not my thing. If someone wants to do a write up, we can find a place for
> it somewhere on the website.
>
> > # Section: Installation images
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Rename to “What Installation image should I chose?”
>
> There has to be a more concise way of saying that. ;) Minimalism rules
> here. ;)
>
> > Add Subsection: One install with access to the Internet?
> > Use the `*_netinst.iso` which will install a base system then download
> > the
> > remaining packages during the installation process.
> > Add Subsection: Multiple installs or no access to the Internet during
> > install?
> > Choose the single `*_dvd-1.iso`. The image contains several desktop
> > choices
> > and additional software options. ...
>
> That information is already on the index and get-devuan pages of the
> website as well as one of the links posted above. Those who will not
> seek will not find.
>
> > # Section: Check the integrity of images
> >
> > =
> >
> > Add how to for Windows. You can probably swipe Fedora’s? But someone
> > would
> > need to check both copyright concerns and that the instructions work.
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc/sect-Burning_ISO_images_to_disc-Validating_the_Files-Validating_at_the_Windows_Command_Prompt.html
>
> Could you possibly provide that information for inclusion?
>
> > # Check the integrity of images Vs. Verify the images
> >
> > ==
> >
> > This isn’t my field, but??? If they’ve done a sha256sum, is there any
> > value
> > in checking a keychain? Or are these just two alternatives of the same
> > thing
> > and these two sections need to be sub-sections of the same section?
>
> I think they are alternative ways of verifying. I always do a sha256sum.
> Can someone please clarify?
>
> > # Section: Writing an image to a CD/DVD or USB drive
> >
> > =
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On 2019-01-01 12:48, Steve Litt wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 09:46:55 -0600
Michael wrote:
= {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}
I suggest flowchart.
SteveT
One of our devs has expressed an interest in putting together an
interactive walkthrough to choosing the right iso. That would be useful
but separate from the install guides. Hopefully in time something will
be available.
golinux
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Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed comments. Response inline
below.
On 2019-01-01 09:46, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday 01 January 2019 03:46:52 am goli...@dyne.org wrote:
tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui
install. You can start here:
https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html
Hi golinux,
These thoughts are from the angle of helping someone who’s never done
an
install of any OS before. My guess is most people haven’t, as when
buying a
new computer the OS is almost always already installed now days.
I’ve added stubs where I can, but do edit for better user clarity!
# # #
# # Sections to Add:
= Which Release version is right for me?
Explain when/why they should choose ASCII or Jessie.
= {Explanation of the .iso naming scheme}
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso
^^^ Who we are!
^^^ The Release name
^^^ The architecture
^^^ The Installation image
Needs fixed width to line up properly...
= {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}
This useful information is beyond the scope of these INSTALL guides. But
there are already pages on the website that cover much of it. Does it
really need to be repeated?
https://devuan.org/os/releases
https://devuan.org/os/filenaming
# # Section: Supported architectures
Define what both of these mean.
amd64: 64-bit CPUs, used for both Intel and AMD consumer level CPUs.
I386: 32-bit CPUs, ???
Again not really appropriate for the INSTALL guides. Hardware is s
not my thing. If someone wants to do a write up, we can find a place for
it somewhere on the website.
# # Section: Installation images
Rename to “What Installation image should I chose?”
There has to be a more concise way of saying that. ;) Minimalism rules
here. ;)
Add Subsection: One install with access to the Internet?
Use the `*_netinst.iso` which will install a base system then download
the
remaining packages during the installation process.
Add Subsection: Multiple installs or no access to the Internet during
install?
Choose the single `*_dvd-1.iso`. The image contains several desktop
choices
and additional software options. ...
That information is already on the index and get-devuan pages of the
website as well as one of the links posted above. Those who will not
seek will not find.
# # Section: Check the integrity of images
Add how to for Windows. You can probably swipe Fedora’s? But someone
would
need to check both copyright concerns and that the instructions work.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc/sect-Burning_ISO_images_to_disc-Validating_the_Files-Validating_at_the_Windows_Command_Prompt.html
Could you possibly provide that information for inclusion?
# # Check the integrity of images Vs. Verify the images
This isn’t my field, but??? If they’ve done a sha256sum, is there any
value
in checking a keychain? Or are these just two alternatives of the same
thing
and these two sections need to be sub-sections of the same section?
I think they are alternative ways of verifying. I always do a sha256sum.
Can someone please clarify?
# # Section: Writing an image to a CD/DVD or USB drive
Okay, I hate giving people dd instructions, as one bad typo and they’ve
irrevocably wiped the wrong drive.
These instructions are much safer and
also allow the user to add scripts, commands, copies of .bashrc, and
any
other ‘stuff’ that they might want post install to the USB.
Creating a bootable Ubuntu USB flash drive from terminal
https://askubuntu.com/a/376430
There is one additional command needed. In the next to last step you
also
need to rename isolinux.bin to syslinux.bin.
This section also needs Windows instructions.
I'll let others speak to the technical merit of these suggestions.
In closing I just have to say . . . WOW! Windows, Ubuntu and Fedora
mentioned in the same email. This has to be a first in all the years
this list has existed. I must admit that pushed more than a few buttons
. . .
Cheers!
# # #
Nice writeup, this will definitely help!
Best,
Michael
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Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 09:46:55 -0600
Michael wrote:
> = {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}
I suggest flowchart.
SteveT
Steve Litt
December 2018 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tuesday 01 January 2019 03:46:52 am goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui
> install. You can start here:
>
> https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html
Hi golinux,
These thoughts are from the angle of helping someone who’s never done an
install of any OS before. My guess is most people haven’t, as when buying a
new computer the OS is almost always already installed now days.
I’ve added stubs where I can, but do edit for better user clarity!
# # #
# # Sections to Add:
= Which Release version is right for me?
Explain when/why they should choose ASCII or Jessie.
= {Explanation of the .iso naming scheme}
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso
^^^ Who we are!
^^^ The Release name
^^^ The architecture
^^^ The Installation image
Needs fixed width to line up properly...
= {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}
# # Section: Supported architectures
Define what both of these mean.
amd64: 64-bit CPUs, used for both Intel and AMD consumer level CPUs.
I386: 32-bit CPUs, ???
# # Section: Installation images
Rename to “What Installation image should I chose?”
Add Subsection: One install with access to the Internet?
Use the `*_netinst.iso` which will install a base system then download the
remaining packages during the installation process.
Add Subsection: Multiple installs or no access to the Internet during
install?
Choose the single `*_dvd-1.iso`. The image contains several desktop choices
and additional software options. ...
# # Section: Check the integrity of images
Add how to for Windows. You can probably swipe Fedora’s? But someone would
need to check both copyright concerns and that the instructions work.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc/sect-Burning_ISO_images_to_disc-Validating_the_Files-Validating_at_the_Windows_Command_Prompt.html
# # Check the integrity of images Vs. Verify the images
This isn’t my field, but??? If they’ve done a sha256sum, is there any value
in checking a keychain? Or are these just two alternatives of the same thing
and these two sections need to be sub-sections of the same section?
# # Section: Writing an image to a CD/DVD or USB drive
Okay, I hate giving people dd instructions, as one bad typo and they’ve
irrevocably wiped the wrong drive. These instructions are much safer and
also allow the user to add scripts, commands, copies of .bashrc, and any
other ‘stuff’ that they might want post install to the USB.
Creating a bootable Ubuntu USB flash drive from terminal
https://askubuntu.com/a/376430
There is one additional command needed. In the next to last step you also
need to rename isolinux.bin to syslinux.bin.
This section also needs Windows instructions.
# # #
Nice writeup, this will definitely help!
Best,
Michael
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Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 11:01:44 +0100, aitor_czr wrote in message <93007179-fc33-c2ea-5fb4-00cd732f5...@gnuinos.org>: > Happy 2019 :) > > On 1/1/19 10:46, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > Happy new year everyone! > > > > I've kicked off the new year with a late night session in gitlab > > tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui > > install. You can start here: > > > > https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html > > > > Navigation is at the bottom of the page. Please cycle through the > > pages and report if anything is broken. If they look OK, I will > > merge everything to master tomorrow. > > > > Thanks, > > > > golinux > > Very good job! ..maybe a wee tweak in section "1)" of: https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/live-gui.html where we might wanna mention the potential ramifications of leaving the default root password as "toor" going online during the install, e.g. with: "the default root password is toor and you want to change that default root password to anything else with the passwd command before proceding. Select your preferred option when you're ready." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
Happy 2019 :) On 1/1/19 10:46, goli...@dyne.org wrote: Happy new year everyone! I've kicked off the new year with a late night session in gitlab tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui install. You can start here: https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html Navigation is at the bottom of the page. Please cycle through the pages and report if anything is broken. If they look OK, I will merge everything to master tomorrow. Thanks, golinux Very good job! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides
Happy new year everyone! I've kicked off the new year with a late night session in gitlab tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui install. You can start here: https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html Navigation is at the bottom of the page. Please cycle through the pages and report if anything is broken. If they look OK, I will merge everything to master tomorrow. Thanks, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
