Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
This doesn't feel like a consensus call to me, Tim. It feels like voting. We don't care how many people were in favor versus against. We care why they were in favor or against. If everyone who's against is against because "we don't like it" and everybody whos in favor is in favor because "we have this use case that it addresses and would like to work on the problem", and most are against adopting, you have consensus to adopt. If everyone in favor is in favor because "we like it" and everyone against is against because "this would break the internet," and there are many more in favor than against, we don't have consensus to adopt. I did not vote in this poll, and I am against adopting any of these drafts based on the poll, for the reason I just stated. If we are voting, please count this as a -1 for all drafts for which you polled. Sorry to be a sticky wicket, but I am not okay with this process. On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 10:56 AM Vittorio Bertola wrote: > > Il 12/07/2022 15:02 Tim Wicinski ha scritto: > > Our Poll answers are "Adopt Now","Adopt Not Now", and "Don't Adopt" > > We mapped these responses to 1, 0, -1 (no answer is also 0). > > > > Final Results: > > > * draft-sahib-domain-verification-techniques, 14 > > * draft-dwmtwc-dnsop-caching-resolution-failures, 13 > > * draft-rebs-dnsop-svcb-dane, 12 > > draft-klh-dnsop-rfc8109bis, 7 > > draft-wing-dnsop-structured-dns-error-page, 2 > > draft-dulaunoy-dnsop-passive-dns-cof, -2 > > It would be useful to get the full results, to be able to tell between > these two cases: > 1. some drafts did not get many points because very few people are > interested in them (so mostly zeroes and a few ones); > 2. some drafts did not get many points because several people are > interested in them but several others actively oppose their adoption (so > both ones and minus ones). > > This would help the authors in deciding whether changes in the draft (or > better information about its usefulness) could lead to adoption, or whether > the work is not welcome here and should move elsewhere. > > -- > > Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange > vittorio.bert...@open-xchange.com > Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy > > ___ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
> Il 12/07/2022 15:02 Tim Wicinski ha scritto: > > Our Poll answers are "Adopt Now","Adopt Not Now", and "Don't Adopt" > We mapped these responses to 1, 0, -1 (no answer is also 0). > > > Final Results: > > * draft-sahib-domain-verification-techniques, 14 > * draft-dwmtwc-dnsop-caching-resolution-failures, 13 > * draft-rebs-dnsop-svcb-dane, 12 > draft-klh-dnsop-rfc8109bis, 7 > draft-wing-dnsop-structured-dns-error-page, 2 > draft-dulaunoy-dnsop-passive-dns-cof, -2 > It would be useful to get the full results, to be able to tell between these two cases: 1. some drafts did not get many points because very few people are interested in them (so mostly zeroes and a few ones); 2. some drafts did not get many points because several people are interested in them but several others actively oppose their adoption (so both ones and minus ones). This would help the authors in deciding whether changes in the draft (or better information about its usefulness) could lead to adoption, or whether the work is not welcome here and should move elsewhere. -- Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange vittorio.bert...@open-xchange.com mailto:vittorio.bert...@open-xchange.com Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
Thanks to everyone who’s participated in the poll. As we’ve said before, the chairs rely on a number of factors when setting WG administrative priorities, but occasional polls help us clarify feedback we’re hearing from the WG list, other DNS-oriented WGs, and the broader community. Since WG consensus determines whether we advance a draft we’ve adopted, we work hard to make sure drafts that are adopted are likely to result in quality documents that will have that consensus support to publish as RFCs. Additional comments are always welcome. Our Poll answers are "Adopt Now","Adopt Not Now", and "Don't Adopt" We mapped these responses to 1, 0, -1 (no answer is also 0). Final Results: * draft-sahib-domain-verification-techniques, 14 * draft-dwmtwc-dnsop-caching-resolution-failures, 13 * draft-rebs-dnsop-svcb-dane, 12 draft-klh-dnsop-rfc8109bis, 7 draft-wing-dnsop-structured-dns-error-page, 2 draft-dulaunoy-dnsop-passive-dns-cof, -2 Our Poll answers are "Adopt Now","Adopt Not Now", and "Don't Adopt" We mapped these responses to 1, 0, -1 (no answer is also 0). On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 6:44 AM Tim Wicinski wrote: > > All > > We have six documents that have requested adoption from the working group. > My opinion is that we send out adoption calls for all of these and let the > working group sort it out, but was told that is just crazy. Since Warren > loves these poll things, we put another one together on all the documents > in question. > > > https://forms.gle/TVKeokYvnU55eq2x7 > > > We'll run this poll for two weeks and end on the 9th of July. However, we > have a chai9rs call on the 5th of July and I'm confident we'll have an > obvious clear set of documents to begin adoption calls on. > > thanks > tim > > > > ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
Hi all, Gentle reminder, the poll runs until July 9. Best, -- Benno On 27/06/2022 12:44, Tim Wicinski wrote: All We have six documents that have requested adoption from the working group. My opinion is that we send out adoption calls for all of these and let the working group sort it out, but was told that is just crazy. Since Warren loves these poll things, we put another one together on all the documents in question. https://forms.gle/TVKeokYvnU55eq2x7 We'll run this poll for two weeks and end on the 9th of July. However, we have a chai9rs call on the 5th of July and I'm confident we'll have an obvious clear set of documents to begin adoption calls on. thanks tim ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
On 6/27/2022 11:29 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: I think your instinct is correct, Tim. It’s not an optimization to bypass discussion as part of a call for adoption. By asking us to consider six drafts at once, and discuss none of them, you create a strong likelihood of insufficient review. +1 - the survey is not a useful approach. I've been working down the survey (3 so far) and found that I needed to provide comments to match up with each of the selections (not easy to do in this form), and that I was missing selections for "not yet ready for consideration" (which is different than "adopt later") and "don't care" (which may or may not be needed depending on whether the survey requires me to make a selection - I haven't gotten to that point yet). I think I also want to hear from everyone else so that the chairs' decisions actually have some context when I hear them and so I might craft a better response. That said, I could see the point of a) a message with all six of the calls, and b) an individual page per each call with all of the comments on the calls and the votes - something easier than filtering through email. Later, Mike On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 03:45 Tim Wicinski wrote: All We have six documents that have requested adoption from the working group. My opinion is that we send out adoption calls for all of these and let the working group sort it out, but was told that is just crazy. Since Warren loves these poll things, we put another one together on all the documents in question. https://forms.gle/TVKeokYvnU55eq2x7 We'll run this poll for two weeks and end on the 9th of July. However, we have a chai9rs call on the 5th of July and I'm confident we'll have an obvious clear set of documents to begin adoption calls on. thanks tim ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
On Mon, 27 Jun 2022, Ted Lemon wrote: I think your instinct is correct, Tim. It’s not an optimization to bypass discussion as part of a call for adoption. By asking us to consider six drafts at once, and discuss none of them, you create a strong likelihood of insufficient review. I also missed the option "I don't know yet", which at least I could signal by not filling in the question for 4 of the 6 drafts. Paul On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 03:45 Tim Wicinski wrote: All We have six documents that have requested adoption from the working group. My opinion is that we send out adoption calls for all of these and let the working group sort it out, but was told that is just crazy. Since Warren loves these poll things, we put another one together on all the documents in question. https://forms.gle/TVKeokYvnU55eq2x7 We'll run this poll for two weeks and end on the 9th of July. However, we have a chai9rs call on the 5th of July and I'm confident we'll have an obvious clear set of documents to begin adoption calls on. thanks tim ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
I think your instinct is correct, Tim. It’s not an optimization to bypass discussion as part of a call for adoption. By asking us to consider six drafts at once, and discuss none of them, you create a strong likelihood of insufficient review. On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 03:45 Tim Wicinski wrote: > > All > > We have six documents that have requested adoption from the working group. > My opinion is that we send out adoption calls for all of these and let the > working group sort it out, but was told that is just crazy. Since Warren > loves these poll things, we put another one together on all the documents > in question. > > > https://forms.gle/TVKeokYvnU55eq2x7 > > > We'll run this poll for two weeks and end on the 9th of July. However, we > have a chai9rs call on the 5th of July and I'm confident we'll have an > obvious clear set of documents to begin adoption calls on. > > thanks > tim > > > > ___ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
[DNSOP] DNSOP Document Adoption Poll (June 2022)
All We have six documents that have requested adoption from the working group. My opinion is that we send out adoption calls for all of these and let the working group sort it out, but was told that is just crazy. Since Warren loves these poll things, we put another one together on all the documents in question. https://forms.gle/TVKeokYvnU55eq2x7 We'll run this poll for two weeks and end on the 9th of July. However, we have a chai9rs call on the 5th of July and I'm confident we'll have an obvious clear set of documents to begin adoption calls on. thanks tim ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
