Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Checked Out CH.1 "Introducing LO" GS Guide
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Dave Barton wrote: > Revised draft uploaded to Drafts folder for GS 5.0 > http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.0/gs5-0-ch1-introducing-lo-1/view > > Replaced a number of images and added replies to some of Jean's notes. > > My notes raise a couple of issues about this chapter that would probably > be better discussed on this list. One in particular is that I feel that > we kind of "fudge" the information about installation by referring to > the help wiki. A number of the comments Jean and I have made about other > changes that could/should be made are a "knock-on" result of things that > users might have done at the time of installation. What do others here > think about expanding the "Installation" section of this chapter? > > Dave I have not yet looked at your further comments on the chapter, but I'll answer this now. I am NOT in favour of explanding the section on installation. Here is why: 1) Most people will have already installed LO before they look at this chapter. 2) The official installation instructions are here, which is linked to from the download page. https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/install-howto/ If this chapter refers to something on the help wiki, the link should be changed to this one. 3) If we're going to have more installation info in the book, it should be in an appendix, not this chapter. But I am not in favour of doing that either; the book is too long already. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
On 06/25/2015 12:40 AM, Dave Barton wrote: >> How it is created > Painfully :) Going by the comments in email list about creating the helpfile, I suspect that "painfully" is a major understatement. > The dev guide to creating help files can be found here: > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent > and a somewhat dated edition here: > http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/online_help/ One needs to find: * Helpauthoring.oxt. * xmlhelptemplate.ott and learn how to use both of those items, before one can even begin to work on the built-in help documentation. As best as I can determine, there is no documentation on how to use either the template, or the extension. The other barrier is setting up GIT/Mercurial/whatever SVN is really used, on one's local system, to import the data onto one's system. sudo apt-get install GIT is easy enough, but to use it is a slightly different story. > BTW. We are all subscribed to this list, so cc isn't necessary. My working assumption is that the person sending the reply has little, if any control over who receives their reply, when responding to a list. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
My responses are given in-line with your original message. Original Message From: David Allen To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 18:44:57 -0400 > Hi Jonathon and Jean (and everyone else), > I've been using LibreOffice for years as a PortableApp (from > PortableApps.com), and I never knew there was local online help. It > apparently doesn't install with the Portable version. For obvious reasons they try to keep their program sizes down to a minimum. As you are aware, even the standard install doesn't include the in-built help file. There are separate help installation files in many languages, including English variants. The original OOo incorporated the help files as part of the installation package, which is still the case for AOO installations today. > Do either of you (or anyone else) know where this online help comes > from? Jean, or someone who has been involved since the days of OOo might know more, but since the in-built help files are closely linked to the source code it can be assumed that they originate from the developers. > Who is responsible for it? With open source projects like LO, no ONE person has overall responsibility for any aspect of the software or project. It works (surprisingly) on a collaborative basis, where anyone can put forward a proposal for review by their peers. In much the same way as our "User" documentation is created/edited and submitted for review(s) before publication. > How it is created? Painfully :) The dev guide to creating help files can be found here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent and a somewhat dated edition here: http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/online_help/ > It's totally different from the pdfs. Yes, two different groups of people create the in-built help and the "User" documentation. The in-built help is compiled from a specifically structured tagged XML format (see links above), whereas the "User" documentation is authored in ODF. The in-built help is mainly intended as short summaries of the software's functions, but the "User" documentation tries to offer a more detailed overview about using the software. > Thanks, > Davidaa BTW. We are all subscribed to this list, so cc isn't necessary. Regards Dave -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 8:44 AM, David Allen wrote: > Hi Jonathon and Jean (and everyone else), >I've been using LibreOffice for years as a PortableApp (from > PortableApps.com), and I never knew there was local online help. It > apparently doesn't install with the Portable version. >Do either of you (or anyone else) know where this online help comes from? > Who is responsible for it? How it is created? It's totally different from > the pdfs. > Thanks, > Davidaa The online help is maintained by the developers. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent Sophie can point you to more information. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
On 06/24/2015 10:44 PM, David Allen wrote: > and I never knew there was local online help. It apparently doesn't install > with the Portable version. If Ann-ology hadn't writing "what documentation?" in her comment, I wouldn't have thought to toss that paragraph about the Online Help into my response to her comment. > Do either of you (or anyone else) know where this online help comes from? The developers of the project. That isn't as bad, or as bizarre as it sounds. When Sun purchased StarOffice, there were one or two people, whose job was to convert the specs used by the developers, into the content that is in the help file. Today, the remnants of those spec sheets can be found scattered throughout different parts of both the LibO and AOo websites. There is also a lot of what can be termed "institutional knowledge". Things that are known to people who have worked on the project for years, and, in most cases, has documented somewhere in the project, but nobody else is even aware of that body of knowledge, regardless of public accessibility of the documents with that knowledge. ### Going back to project management, one of those spec sheets included a fairly comprehensive guideline on how to implement a project management component into OOo. > Who is responsible for it? > How it is created? I don't know who is currently responsible for its creation. Multiracio dispensed with PDFs, with the expectation that users will hit F1. Consequently, the helpfile in EuroOffice, for Linux, is more accurate, and much more useful than that of either AOo or LibO. As far as help on Android goes, the built in help from both EU and AnOo is not very helpful. > It's totally different from the pdfs. The PDF documentation is created on a trial and error basis. Try something out, and if it works, it goes into the documentation. If it doesn't work, it probably won't go into the documentation, unless it does major damage to the document being edited. The HelpFile documentation was originally created more or less according to what those spec sheets say, with, what appears to me, to be minimal testing of whether or not the implementation is congruent with those specification sheets. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
Hi Jonathon and Jean (and everyone else), I've been using LibreOffice for years as a PortableApp (from PortableApps.com), and I never knew there was local online help. It apparently doesn't install with the Portable version. Do either of you (or anyone else) know where this online help comes from? Who is responsible for it? How it is created? It's totally different from the pdfs. Thanks, Davidaa On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 3:01 PM, toki wrote: > On 06/24/2015 04:37 PM, David Allen wrote: > > >Jonathon, you mentioned "a good test of the functionality of the > Project > Management tools for Lib0". Are you talking about a specific piece of > software? > > Over the years, individuals and organizations have submitted extensions > and/or templates that ostensibly enable one to manage projects, using > OOo, and then LibO or AOO. > > After I wrote that email yesterday, I went browsing the LibO and AOo > extension sites, and only two extensions popped up under a search for > "project management". DatabaseRangeManager, and AuthorSupportTools. > * DatabaseRangeManager, when correctly configured, ensures that sane > values are inserted into spreadsheets. (I didn't test this extension out.) > * AuthorSupportTools looks like a fork/updated version of Writer Tools, > and Writer Extras. In both LibO 4.3.2 & LibO 5.0 beta, it crashed on me, > with an unsupported Java call. It wouldn't install in EuroOffice 2014. > > At Libreoffice Templates, there is a Gantt Chart Template, and a Project > Manager Database. > * I used The Gantt Chart Template for a project a while ago, and it > works fairly well, provided one has a list of required resources, and > all the other data it requires, before creating the chart. (This is a > major issue with Gantt Charts.) > * I just briefly looked at the Project Manager Database, and it looks > promising. However, I haven't tried it out, so looks may be not be > accurate. > > There are ten templates at Apache OpenOffice Templates that purport to > be for project management. The ones I looked were straight conversions > from Excel. At least one required whatever scripting language Excel > uses, to be available. > > Something I didn't find, that I thought I'd seen, but on reflection > probably only saw the spec sheet/wishlist of, was an extension that kept > the data in BASE, used Calc for data input/output, exported > dates/schedule to IC and Lightning, and sent reminder/status report > emails via Thunderbird. > > jonathon > > * English - detected > * English > > * English > > <#> > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
On 06/24/2015 04:37 PM, David Allen wrote: >Jonathon, you mentioned "a good test of the functionality of the Project Management tools for Lib0". Are you talking about a specific piece of software? Over the years, individuals and organizations have submitted extensions and/or templates that ostensibly enable one to manage projects, using OOo, and then LibO or AOO. After I wrote that email yesterday, I went browsing the LibO and AOo extension sites, and only two extensions popped up under a search for "project management". DatabaseRangeManager, and AuthorSupportTools. * DatabaseRangeManager, when correctly configured, ensures that sane values are inserted into spreadsheets. (I didn't test this extension out.) * AuthorSupportTools looks like a fork/updated version of Writer Tools, and Writer Extras. In both LibO 4.3.2 & LibO 5.0 beta, it crashed on me, with an unsupported Java call. It wouldn't install in EuroOffice 2014. At Libreoffice Templates, there is a Gantt Chart Template, and a Project Manager Database. * I used The Gantt Chart Template for a project a while ago, and it works fairly well, provided one has a list of required resources, and all the other data it requires, before creating the chart. (This is a major issue with Gantt Charts.) * I just briefly looked at the Project Manager Database, and it looks promising. However, I haven't tried it out, so looks may be not be accurate. There are ten templates at Apache OpenOffice Templates that purport to be for project management. The ones I looked were straight conversions from Excel. At least one required whatever scripting language Excel uses, to be available. Something I didn't find, that I thought I'd seen, but on reflection probably only saw the spec sheet/wishlist of, was an extension that kept the data in BASE, used Calc for data input/output, exported dates/schedule to IC and Lightning, and sent reminder/status report emails via Thunderbird. jonathon * English - detected * English * English <#> -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Intro and some questions
Hi Jonathon and Jean, Thanks for your replies. Sorry, I don't know German. Or any other language (Just a few words in Chinese; I lived in Taiwan for seven years). I found the _Using Assistive Technology in LibreOffice_ document. It's labeled "draft 2". Do either of you know if this is this the latest version? Also, was this document meant to be part of another doc, like an appendix to the GSG, or was it to remain a separate doc? Jonathon, you mentioned "a good test of the functionality of the Project Management tools for Lib0". Are you talking about a specific piece of software? Jean, thanks for the account. Davidaa On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Jean Weber wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:33 AM, David Allen wrote: > > I've seen the page titled "User Guide Tasks" ( > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development), but it's > > essentially empty. Is it maintained by anyone in particular? If not, how > is > > it updated? > > The User Guide Tasks page > ( > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks > ) > is supposed to be updated by people when they check out files (from > the ODFAuthors website) for updating, review, editing, etc, and when > they return the files they've been working on. Unfortunately, many > people fail to do this. I, and a few others, occasionally fill in > spaces for other people, but no one in particular maintains the page. > > At the moment, it's essentially empty because very few people are > working on anything, AFAIK. > > > Is it fair to say that I could "just pick something" to work on because, > > essentially, little to nothing is being worked on? > > In most cases, yes. > > > I see a few people recently showing interest in LibreOffice's > > documentation, but I don't know if they are working on something but not > > updating the list or they aren't doing anything simply because they're > > getting lost in such a huge project--especially if those volunteering are > > new to documentation. > > I'm just finding it difficult to jump into details without knowing the > > overall picture. > > We don't have anyone coordinating documentation or mentoring new > people. I was doing that for years, but I've retired from that work. > The Contributors Guide is useful but somewhat out of date and > incomplete. I believe Dave Barton is updating some chapters. > > > Anyway, just thoughts. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing clearly? I > > don't wish to offend anyone. > > I need to get an ODFAuthors account. Can someone help me with that? > > I'll set that up for you now. You should soon get an email with your login > info. > > --Jean > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: [libreoffice-projects] [ANN] LibreOffice 5.0.0 RC1 available
Hi all, Am 24.06.2015 um 12:37 schrieb Jean Weber: In case you haven't seen this on another list. There seems to be a massive problem with WIN 7 / 8 / 8.1 and 64bit. (bugs #92277, 92261 and 92269) So be careful and test RC1 only on a system you can loose. -- Forwarded message -- From: Christian Lohmaier Date: Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:27 PM Subject: [libreoffice-projects] [ANN] LibreOffice 5.0.0 RC1 available To: libreoffice-dev , Libreoffice ln10 , "proje...@global.libreoffice.org" , libreOffice-QA Dear Community, The Document Foundation is pleased to announce the first release candidate of LibreOffice 5.0.0. The upcoming 5.0.0 will be the first release of our fresh 5.0 line. Please be aware that LibreOffice 5.0.0 RC1 has not been flagged as ready for production use yet, however feel free to give it a try instead of 4.4.3. A work-in-progress list of new features in LibreOffice 5.0 can be found at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.0 The release is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X from our QA builds download page at http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/ Windows builds are also provided in 64bit version. Developers and QA might also be interested in the symbol server for windows debug information (see the release notes linked below for details) Should you find bugs, please report them to our Bugzilla: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org A good way to assess the release candidate quality is to run some specific manual tests on it, our TCM wiki page has more details: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test For other ways to get involved with this exciting project - you can e.g. contribute code: http://www.libreoffice.org/community/developers/ translate LibreOffice to your language: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_Localization_Guide or help with funding our operations: http://donate.libreoffice.org/ A list of known issues and fixed bugs compared to 5.0.0 beta3 is available from our wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/5.0.0/RC1 Let us close again with a BIG Thank You! to all of you having contributed to the LibreOffice project - this release would not have been possible without your help. On behalf of the Community, Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: projects+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/projects/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: [libreoffice-projects] [ANN] LibreOffice 5.0.0 RC1 available
In case you haven't seen this on another list. -- Forwarded message -- From: Christian Lohmaier Date: Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:27 PM Subject: [libreoffice-projects] [ANN] LibreOffice 5.0.0 RC1 available To: libreoffice-dev , Libreoffice ln10 , "proje...@global.libreoffice.org" , libreOffice-QA Dear Community, The Document Foundation is pleased to announce the first release candidate of LibreOffice 5.0.0. The upcoming 5.0.0 will be the first release of our fresh 5.0 line. Please be aware that LibreOffice 5.0.0 RC1 has not been flagged as ready for production use yet, however feel free to give it a try instead of 4.4.3. A work-in-progress list of new features in LibreOffice 5.0 can be found at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.0 The release is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X from our QA builds download page at http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/ Windows builds are also provided in 64bit version. Developers and QA might also be interested in the symbol server for windows debug information (see the release notes linked below for details) Should you find bugs, please report them to our Bugzilla: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org A good way to assess the release candidate quality is to run some specific manual tests on it, our TCM wiki page has more details: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test For other ways to get involved with this exciting project - you can e.g. contribute code: http://www.libreoffice.org/community/developers/ translate LibreOffice to your language: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_Localization_Guide or help with funding our operations: http://donate.libreoffice.org/ A list of known issues and fixed bugs compared to 5.0.0 beta3 is available from our wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/5.0.0/RC1 Let us close again with a BIG Thank You! to all of you having contributed to the LibreOffice project - this release would not have been possible without your help. On behalf of the Community, Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: projects+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/projects/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
