Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Terry,

> > Don't bother scheduling a meeting.  For testing, just head to the
> > meeting room with the above URL whenever you like and see if anyone
> > else is there or shows up, or ping someone privately to help with a
> > test.
>
> https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug
>
> OK.  Did you set that up on one of your servers (or a desktop) via the
> Chromium Extension?  If so how did you get the URL to include
> 'dorset-lug'.  Whenever I tried setting a meeting up, I ended up with
> a nonsensical URL.

I know nothing about the Chromium extension.  Without that, I think you
can go to https://meet.jit.si and just type in a meeting name, like
dorset-lug.

A password for entry can be set, but I don't think there's a way to list
current meetings so anything unusual suffices.

> > The scheduled time can appear on the mailing list.  :-)
>
> Is that Meeting perpetual or will you take it down shortly?

It springs into existence whenever one of us goes there.

Or when someone else picks dorset-lug as their meeting name even if
they're nothing to do with a Linux user group.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Tim H,

> Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here?

To muddle through to something to attempt one night with a chance of
success, I think.  :-)

> Is it to have a full blown video conferencing setup with multiple
> rooms for various conversation or just somewhere on the web where can
> all join up and chat on a monthly basis about what ever we want with
> various rooms for various chats?

I only see a difference if I interpret ‘chat’ in that to mean text or
audio; no video.  So like the text chat of IRC.

> Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more
> important?

I think the audio aspect is required.  We already have #dorset on IRC
but for those not use to it a busy IRC channel can be hard to follow
because P says something and replies come from Q, R, and S over time and
intermingled with those is P's extra information and T pipes up with a
related issue.  It's like multiple parties audibly talking but being
able to untangle the audio in your head to distinct conversations.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Patrick,

> On the other hand, I do not enjoy video conferences/calls in general.
> I think it must be something to do with not being able to tell who
> else might be listening in or watching, just out of frame

I don't have a camera, but I know some that do turn it off just because
they prefer the privacy.  Sharing a window is an alternative which
replaces the camera feed.  Then it's just who's listening, and I assume
everyone.  :-)

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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[PeterMerchant via dorset]

On 30/03/2020 15:59, Tim Waugh wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:51, Patrick Wigmore  wrote:


I thought I'd told it to abort the current tasks before shutting it
down, but I've since found they sitll show as "In progress" on my
Rosetta account.


I'm sitting on some work units for Rosetta@home as well, mostly because I'm
waiting for Folding@home to be idle waiting for work before resuming them.

But fear not: with BOINC tasks a single work unit can be assigned to
multiple clients, and the results are cross-checked.
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/JobReplication

Tim.
*/


Mi Computer hasn't done  much work on this for the last couple of days because 
my daughter, a senior sister at Winchester Intensive Care Unit, put out a call 
for 3D printed face masks as they are running out of NHS shields, and I and a 
couple of other guys have been printing away. If anybody else wants to help,  
Please print the European version of this:


3D-printed protective visor - 3DVerkstan - Quick to print, easy to assemble 


I have done about 10 so far, and they need hundreds because they can only be 
used for about a week, and her ICU is expanding from 9 to about 120 beds.

Thanks,
Peter
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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 18:00:07 BST Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty wrote:
> Free to help test this evening. When is the meet happening again?

Tomorrow week 2020-04-07.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty]

On 30/03/2020 17:58, Terry Coles wrote:
> On Monday, 30 March 2020 17:43:33 BST zir...@xendistar.co.uk wrote:
>> Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here? Is it to have a full blown
>> video conferencing setup with multiple rooms for various conversation or
>> just somewhere on the web where can all join up and chat on a monthly
>> basis about what ever we want with various rooms for various chats? We
>> seemed to have moved from sorting out how to handle the next meeting to
>> comparing video conferencing.
>>
>> Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more
>> important?
> Actually I thought the whole point was to find a conferencing facility that 
> could do video so we could actually mimic to some degree the face-to-face 
> environment at a pub/club meet.
>
> I'm not sure, but I think most comms tools provide video as well as audio 
> anyway.   
>
> If you accept that most of us want video then we should at least test the 
> options to see if they are suitable.
>
Free to help test this evening. When is the meet happening again?

Hamish



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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 17:43:33 BST zir...@xendistar.co.uk wrote:
> Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here? Is it to have a full blown
> video conferencing setup with multiple rooms for various conversation or
> just somewhere on the web where can all join up and chat on a monthly
> basis about what ever we want with various rooms for various chats? We
> seemed to have moved from sorting out how to handle the next meeting to
> comparing video conferencing.
> 
> Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more
> important?

Actually I thought the whole point was to find a conferencing facility that 
could do video so we could actually mimic to some degree the face-to-face 
environment at a pub/club meet.

I'm not sure, but I think most comms tools provide video as well as audio 
anyway.   

If you accept that most of us want video then we should at least test the 
options to see if they are suitable.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[zircon]

On 2020-03-29 19:01, Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty wrote:

Are people interested in getting this going?

I could make us a poll to sort out how we're doing it. I like the idea
of subgroups - I think it'd be difficult otherwise cos we often have
subgroups having mini-conversations. That way we could also switch
between conversations at will.

I was also wondering if people might like to do these more often, 
seeing

as we're all pretty much stuck at home for the foreseeable future?

Hamish

On 17/03/2020 16:42, PeterMerchant wrote:



I was wondering about some kind of virtual meeting at the normal date
and time, given homes now have fast Internet connections, but it 
would

need some experimentation beforehand by someone who has time or
experience.  :-)


I wonder if we could set up a WhatsApp group, and whether it could
split off into sub-groups for different conversations. We use it at
home, but only one-to-one so I don't know if this is possible.  Think
I can link it from the small screen phone to my PC, but I haven't had
too much luck with that.

Also just saw a tweet for Zoom.us and my son says he has been using it
for his lectures as he is teaching from home at the moment. Once again
I know nothing about it.

Peter M.




Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here? Is it to have a full blown 
video conferencing setup with multiple rooms for various conversation or 
just somewhere on the web where can all join up and chat on a monthly 
basis about what ever we want with various rooms for various chats? We 
seemed to have moved from sorting out how to handle the next meeting to 
comparing video conferencing.


Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more 
important?


Confused

Tim H

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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Tim Waugh]

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:51, Patrick Wigmore  wrote:

> I thought I'd told it to abort the current tasks before shutting it
> down, but I've since found they sitll show as "In progress" on my
> Rosetta account.


I'm sitting on some work units for Rosetta@home as well, mostly because I'm
waiting for Folding@home to be idle waiting for work before resuming them.

But fear not: with BOINC tasks a single work unit can be assigned to
multiple clients, and the results are cross-checked.
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/JobReplication

Tim.
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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Patrick Wigmore]

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:11:44 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> The open-source issue is why I mentioned Jitsi.

I like the sound of Jitsi for that reason.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:48:37 +0100, t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> I would guess that quite a few of us have a tablet or smartphone
> with Skype installed too

I used to do that and the Skype account is probably still active, but 
I'd have to set the tablet back up again. It's stuck on an outdated 
version of iOS now, so it might not be compatible with the latest 
Skype app.

On the other hand, I do not enjoy video conferences/calls in general. 
I think it must be something to do with not being able to tell who 
else might be listening in or watching, just out of frame, and the 
general bombardment of visual information and inability to tell who's 
paying attention to who.

I'm reminded of time spent playing around with VLC Media Player back 
when I first had broadband internet access. A friend and I used to 
stream webcam video two ways for the novelty of it. You could surpass 
the video quality of MSN Messenger, which was my main point of 
reference. I don't think we talked about very much over the stream; it 
was really just for the novelty of being able to do it!

Of course, without a central host to handle duplication and 
distribution, that doesn't scale well to many-to-many conferences; 
people would quickly run out of upload bandwidth if they had to serve 
a unicast stream to every other participant directly. Plus there's no 
authentication or encryption, but maybe that makes it more pub-like. 
:)

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 15:16:57 BST Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Don't bother scheduling a meeting.  For testing, just head to the
> meeting room with the above URL whenever you like and see if anyone else
> is there or shows up, or ping someone privately to help with a test.

https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug

OK.  Did you set that up on one of your servers (or a desktop) via the 
Chromium Extension?  If so how did you get the URL to include 'dorset-lug'.  
Whenever I tried setting a meeting up, I ended up with a nonsensical URL.

> The scheduled time can appear on the mailing list.  :-)

Is that Meeting perpetual or will you take it down shortly?

BTW.  I'm there if anyone has time to try it.  I have to do some routine 
maintenance on this PC (clean the CPU heat pipe fin bank and replace the heat 
sink compound), so I'll be going offline in about an hour.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Terry,

> > For example, https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug
...
> > It's best within Chrome or Chrome-wrapped-up-in-Electron if the
> > Chrome browser isn't available.  Up to date Firefox's fair better
> > than older ones.
>
> I've just installed in Chromium.  The only problem is that the person
> that schedules the meeting appears to need to join it via Google
> Calendar or  Oulook 365 (spit).

Don't bother scheduling a meeting.  For testing, just head to the
meeting room with the above URL whenever you like and see if anyone else
is there or shows up, or ping someone privately to help with a test.

The scheduled time can appear on the mailing list.  :-)

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 14:56:55 BST Terry Coles wrote:
> One problem with Skype is that I have no idea how a Conference is set up;
> does everyone simply call the convener?

Looking at my Skype client, it would seem that a Meeting can be convened in 
the same way as Jitsi and the participants don't need a Skype Account.  (They 
may be asked for an email address though.)

> Looking at jitsi, it would appear that the convener simply sets the Meeting
> up in Google Calendar and publishes the URL and time.  Everyone with a
> compatible browser and plugin then simply surfs to that URL at the
> appointed time.

Can anyone say if the browser and plugin is actually needed?  If not then I 
would suggest that Jitsi is preferable because it is self-hosted and Open 
Source.

If the browser and plugin is needed then I would still say that we still use 
Jitsi because of the above advantages.  The only downside would be if anyone 
is totally anti Google.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 14:48:37 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> I would guess that quite a few of us have a tablet or smartphone with Skype
> installed too - that's what I tend to use rather than running it under
> Linux as it's pretty universal and is just expected to work (which it does
> at least most of the time).

One problem with Skype is that I have no idea how a Conference is set up; does 
everyone simply call the convener?

Looking at jitsi, it would appear that the convener simply sets the Meeting up 
in Google Calendar and publishes the URL and time.  Everyone with a compatible 
browser and plugin then simply surfs to that URL at the appointed time.

Has anyone here actually used it?  Are there any issues?  Do you think it 
would work for us?  Barring problems it would appear to be the best compromise 
between availability, ease-of-use and functionality.

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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Patrick Wigmore]

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:51:20 +0100, Tim Waugh wrote:
> Nice article here, folding@home the main focus, which mentions
> back-offs when requesting new work

Back-offs were what I was seeing on my machine with the Core 2 Duo 
T7250. It was assigned work to do, but in 24 hours it was never able 
to download any of it, so I gave up because it was hogging space in 
the dining room doing nothing, and it has always had the most annoying 
fan whine under practically all load conditions. (An embarrassing 
laptop to bring into a library quiet study room.)

I thought I'd told it to abort the current tasks before shutting it 
down, but I've since found they sitll show as "In progress" on my 
Rosetta account. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way to 
release them so they can be assigned to some other machine, except by 
aborting them from the instance of BOINC that was processing them. I 
can't do that because I already re-formatted the USB stick that had 
the root filesystem on it, thinking I was done with it. I guess the 
tasks will get reassigned once they exceed their deadline. I hope none 
of them contains the key to curing COVID-19!

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[tda]

Hi Terry

On 30/03/2020 13:20, Terry Coles wrote:

The discussion about Zoom recently shows how iffy it is to get it going.  I've
used Skype on Linux to keep in touch with family for years, but some people
are reluctant to use it because of the fact that it isn't Open Source (neither
is Zoom).



I would guess that quite a few of us have a tablet or smartphone with Skype 
installed too - that's what I tend to use rather than running it under Linux as 
it's pretty universal and is just expected to work (which it does at least most 
of the time).

Cheers

Tim

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 14:11:44 BST Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> True.  And it also needs volunteers to do bit of a trial in the days
> leading up to it so solutions can be communicated on the list in
> advance, e.g. turning off your video feed if upstream bandwidth is an
> issue.

Well.  I've listed the commercial offerings that I use and I now recall 
(prompted by looking up the email address I created for the account at the 
time), that I was using qtox and utox.  As I recall they both worked OKish on 
Ubuntu at the time.

However, a single-ended trial is not very meaningful.  I have successfully 
installed Zoom, but I've not used it so who knows?  Similarly can every one 
use a tox client?  (Apparently not see below)

> The open-source issue is why I mentioned Jitsi.
> https://www.mail-archive.com/dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk/msg09166.html
> For example, https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug

I've not used jitsi, but I'm happy to try it.

> It's best within Chrome or Chrome-wrapped-up-in-Electron if the Chrome
> browser isn't available.  Up to date Firefox's fair better than older
> ones.

I've just installed in Chromium.  The only problem is that the person that 
schedules the meeting appears to need to join it via Google Calendar or  
Oulook 365 (spit).
 
> Perhaps the Tox protocol, qtox is one program.  It's doesn't do
> multi-party audio/video.

Ah I didn't know that.  Clearly not suitable.

> No, it's not the same, but it might be better in some ways, e.g. share a
> window, or new participants arrive.

There is that.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Terry,

> There are lots of different tools out there but without a poll 
> we won't know who can run what.

True.  And it also needs volunteers to do bit of a trial in the days
leading up to it so solutions can be communicated on the list in
advance, e.g. turning off your video feed if upstream bandwidth is an
issue.

> The discussion about Zoom recently shows how iffy it is to get it
> going.  I've used Skype on Linux to keep in touch with family for
> years, but some people are reluctant to use it because of the fact
> that it isn't Open Source (neither is Zoom).

The open-source issue is why I mentioned Jitsi.
https://www.mail-archive.com/dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk/msg09166.html
For example, https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug

It's best within Chrome or Chrome-wrapped-up-in-Electron if the Chrome
browser isn't available.  Up to date Firefox's fair better than older
ones.

> I remember using one Open Source tool years ago, but since none of my
> family wanted to use it I neglected to re-install it when I last did a
> complete distro installation.  I can't even remember the name; I
> thought it began with 'T', but I can't see anything in the (K)Ubuntu
> repository under Communications that begins with T.

Perhaps the Tox protocol, qtox is one program.  It's doesn't do
multi-party audio/video.

> TBH, I'm not too bothered about an online Meeting, It's never the same
> as face-to-face and I don't have any beer ;-(

No, it's not the same, but it might be better in some ways, e.g. share a
window, or new participants arrive.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

[Terry Coles]

On Sunday, 29 March 2020 20:50:49 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> Count me in. Just need a decision on what to use.

That's the rub.  There are lots of different tools out there but without a poll 
we won't know who can run what.

The discussion about Zoom recently shows how iffy it is to get it going.  I've 
used Skype on Linux to keep in touch with family for years, but some people 
are reluctant to use it because of the fact that it isn't Open Source (neither 
is Zoom).

I remember using one Open Source tool years ago, but since none of my family 
wanted to use it I neglected to re-install it when I last did a complete 
distro installation.  I can't even remember the name; I thought it began with 
'T', but I can't see anything in the (K)Ubuntu repository under Communications 
that begins with T.

TBH, I'm not too bothered about an online Meeting, It's never the same as 
face-to-face and I don't have any beer ;-(  If something is set up, I'll come 
along to make up the numbers, but the main reason I like the monthly meetings 
is the environment and the chat content.

-- 



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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty]

On 30/03/2020 10:22, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi Hamish,
>
>>> https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/cpu_list.php
>> For a really slow CPU, look up the AMD E1-1200 APU in that list :)
>> That's the CPU in my old laptop. It's basically the bottom of the pile!
> I trump that.  My daily PC is a ‘Atom(TM) CPU D525’.
>
Kinda, cos while each core is slower, the fact that you have 4 of them
instead of 2 means overall you have more GFLOPS :)

Does make me wonder why they bothered making it a quad core when each
core is even slower than my E1-1200, and that's really hecking slow.
Apparently it's about the same as a 7-year-older mid-spec Pentium 4!

Hamish



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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Hamish,

> > https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/cpu_list.php
>
> For a really slow CPU, look up the AMD E1-1200 APU in that list :)
> That's the CPU in my old laptop. It's basically the bottom of the pile!

I trump that.  My daily PC is a ‘Atom(TM) CPU D525’.

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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty]

On 30/03/2020 09:51, Tim Waugh wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 10:25, Ralph Corderoy  wrote:
>
>>> Unfortunately, that machine seems to be stuck waiting for the
>>> server(s) to let it download anything. I presume they are prioritising
>>> higher-specification machines.
>> Maybe.  One snippet of #dorset says
>>
>> > folding@home ran out of work for me. I resumed boinc telling it to
>> > only work when idle (f@h runs regardless when there's folding to
>> > be done)
>>
>> That's one nice thing about WCG, you can set it to only do the
>> project/s you want, but to give you work for any others if they
>> don't have any.  I'm not sure if BOINC its self can do that.
>>
>> I don't use any of them so have no insight.
>>
> (The 'I resumed boinc' was me)
>
> I've not seen rosetta@home waiting for work units yet so I'm not sure what
> would cause it. Although, I'm only running it when folding@home is idle. I
> only have a single fairly low powered dual-CPU (Turion) machine spare to
> use, which I notice comes very far down this list:
> https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/cpu_list.php
>
> Nice article here, folding@home the main focus, which mentions back-offs
> when requesting new work:
> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/308332-foldinghome-crushes-exascale-barrier-now-faster-than-dozens-of-supercomputers
>
> The Folding@home project definitely seems better at publicity. :-)
>
> Also WCG is World Community Grid, not currently researching COVID-19
> specifically:
> https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/research/viewAllProjects.do
>
> Tim.
> */

For a really slow CPU, look up the AMD E1-1200 APU in that list :)
That's the CPU in my old laptop. It's basically the bottom of the pile!

Hamish



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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Terry Coles]

On Monday, 30 March 2020 09:51:20 BST Tim Waugh wrote:
> The Folding@home project definitely seems better at publicity. :-)

BOINC has a Twitter feed.  I don't have a Twitter Account, so I only paid a 
quick visit, but I did notice that data computed for COVID-19 was used to 
develop recent treatments that are currently in testing.  That was posted 
about a month ago.

In their news section, they also mentioned that the number of people 
volunteering computing power had leapt in the past few months (I think they 
said doubled) and, at the time of writing, the six best days computing ever 
had all occurred over the past ten days.

-- 



Terry Coles



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Re: [Dorset] Donating computing power

[Tim Waugh]

On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 10:25, Ralph Corderoy  wrote:

> > Unfortunately, that machine seems to be stuck waiting for the
> > server(s) to let it download anything. I presume they are prioritising
> > higher-specification machines.
>
> Maybe.  One snippet of #dorset says
>
> > folding@home ran out of work for me. I resumed boinc telling it to
> > only work when idle (f@h runs regardless when there's folding to
> > be done)
>
> That's one nice thing about WCG, you can set it to only do the
> project/s you want, but to give you work for any others if they
> don't have any.  I'm not sure if BOINC its self can do that.
>
> I don't use any of them so have no insight.
>

(The 'I resumed boinc' was me)

I've not seen rosetta@home waiting for work units yet so I'm not sure what
would cause it. Although, I'm only running it when folding@home is idle. I
only have a single fairly low powered dual-CPU (Turion) machine spare to
use, which I notice comes very far down this list:
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/cpu_list.php

Nice article here, folding@home the main focus, which mentions back-offs
when requesting new work:
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/308332-foldinghome-crushes-exascale-barrier-now-faster-than-dozens-of-supercomputers

The Folding@home project definitely seems better at publicity. :-)

Also WCG is World Community Grid, not currently researching COVID-19
specifically:
https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/research/viewAllProjects.do

Tim.
*/
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