Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Collector Condition means: The seller wants a lot of money for it. John K5MO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Sri to pick up this thread so late, IMHO Collector Condition: 1) there is a difference between original and restored. I'd prefer not restored. 2) practically un scuffed, un chipped paint on the cabinet - no additional holes please. 3) absolutely unblemished - not even finger tip burnishing of the front plate around a knob - now that is hard to find - hence collector interest. 4) off with the cover - a nice shinny chassis - mint would mean no spots of corrosion. 5) no modifications - not even Sherwood modifications. Or if they are there they can be removed, e.g. the common addition of a coax connector on the R-4 series through any of the standard holes on the back. 6) Ideally the rig would work ! :>) Well, tube replacement might be needed, but that is it. Otherwise, if capacitors need replacing then "Collector Cosmetically, but needs electronic work" would be a better description. 7) wishy washy or backlash in the VFO - well that can be adjusted. "Restored" to "original" is an honest statement if the paint job really looks like the original of that model, but no polished up chassis blemishes, and not rewired in anyold way. The rating scale in Ron's website is a very useful guide, but the above is my opinion, and I have found a few. Sometimes you have make exceptions. I found a beautiful MN-4C, but someone had used a ballpoint pen to "label" the SWR/PWR button "in" "out" Aside from that it is close to perfect. I just admire it without the bright lights! Kris KM2KM - Original Message - From: Kevin Elliott To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you (Steve Wedge)
In Donnie Garrett's Drake Grading standard which is based on the Collins system does not really mention Collector as a condition. It is interesting to review. It's like used cars. You have to judge them for yourself preferably in person although decent photos are a really big help in judging a radios value. I find a great pleasure in saving something from the trash and keeping it running. Here is the link to the 'Drake Grading Standard' http://www.zerobeat.net/drakelist/drakegrading.html -- Paul Gerhardt K3PG http://pgerhardt.blogspot.com QRP ARCI 6674 FP 274 "You must do this work with love or you fail." -- John Muir, from How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Curt, that's a perfect example of the type of ad needed for well-above-average stuff. The low-angle, raking light/sunlight also makes sure that the buyer knows that there are some blemishes, so there are no surprises. Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do." - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Curt To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you Here is a sample of a description I did for a "collector Condition" rig. It is not perfect as it had to fit in a limited space, but it might give you a few ideas of what to ask and/or what to state in an offer. Even being as objective as I can be, someone would still need to know my reputation for accurate descriptors in order to trust in the sale. BTW, this offer was at about 30% above the "market" for a claimed-working, as is example. Curt I have worked on several of these TS-700A's over the past couple of years and this is the 2nd nicest one I have seen. Using the Drake/Collins grading standard, this 700A is a VERY GOOD ++ . Nearly un-molested as far as I could see, (Some of the wire wrap posts have been soldered but it was done neatly.) No mods that I can see, and only a couple of very neatly done maintenance-type repairs. You will have to look very carefully to tell it has been serviced. I have checked this rig out thoroughly on the bench side-by-side with an IC-211. The VFO is on frequency and the offsets work. All modes function as they should. Output is as close to spec as I can measure. The knobs and front face are excellent. No scratches or rub-offs. (the band selector has a scuff on the face you can see in the pictures--not a scratch--just a scuff) All the lighting works. The case is very good. There are a couple of scuffed areas on the top. The scuffs are not thru the paint and may be able to be polished out. I have made NO effort to cover, touch-up, or otherwise hide any scuffs or scratches. There are a few minor scratches thru the paint on the bottom of the case. The pictures tell the story. The leather handle is in very good condition. Includes the original 9 pin acc plug and the original AC power cord. (could convert it to DC if you want to). I DO NOT have a mic to include. Will include PDF copies of the Operators and Service Manuals on CD. You can view an album of photos of this rig at: http://picasaweb.google.com/captcurt08/TS700A?feat=directlink I will guarantee your satisfaction with this rig..If you don't think it is as I represent, or it does not meet your expectations, return it to me in the same condition, by the same transport means and I will send you a full refund. I will be happy to answer questions or provide more info. Use eMail. -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
If you're shelling out more than 2x the typical price, you either need to have
hi-res photos of every square inch and all views - with and without covers.
Beyond the 2x point, I'd much prefer seeing it "in the flesh".
I did see a TR-4CW going for nearly a grand on eBay recently. It looked nice,
but for that kind of dough, it had better be "mint".
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do."
- Joe Walsh
If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop!
- Original Message -
From: Curt
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Hi Jim:
Absolutely! It is sooo difficult to quantify condition. Anyone that is
considering the purchase of a true collector radio, at an elevated price, like
any collectable, would do well to inspect in person or get a known authority to
do same--else, take your chances. If you never expect it to be above average,
you will rarely be disappointed.
There are very very few "mint" rigs out there that are older than a year.
Finally, the worst "clause" in a description is: ".for its age". Like
"this radio is perfect considering its age"...or .."absolutely mint for a
radio of this vintage"These are laughable in many cases...I call it "the
door-stop scale of collectable radio grading"
Cheers,
Curt
KU8L
On 12/8/2011 2:40 PM, Jim DiMauro wrote:
Kevin:
Sorry for the glib answer I gave earlier, but the term "collector quality"
is so subjective as to be completely meaningless without further definition on
the part of the seller. Even grading "standards" are highly subjective, and
you'll get four different grades from three different people who apply a
standard to a given piece of gear. It's like asking what something is "worth."
BTW, I stand behind my intial answer!
73,
Jim
W2BVM
From: Kevin Elliott
To: "drakelist@zerobeat.net"
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 2:02 PM
Subject: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states
in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your
mind when you read an ad using those words?
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Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Kevin, I see loads of replies below your post that I'm going to read after I offer my opinion so as not to taint it. Collector condition, first of all, needs to be considered "excellent" by the same standards as I've seen used by Collins collectors and on WB4HFN's page. There should be minimum signs of wear and no scratches. On the earlier sets, the copper should be blemish-free and shiny. All controls should operate as new. The original-issue or NOS tubes should be there (Sylvanias and sometimes RCA, IIRC). Obviously, it should perform to as-new specs. There should be absolutely no mods and should have the original cord, washers, screws, etc. As the years go by, the condition will need to be tempered by the realities of the need to replace electrolytic capacitors and other parts that may have a shelf-life (high-value resistors) - even if that life is 50 years. Having the original box and manual helps. Again, I'm talking about a museum piece and not the equivalent of what the tool collectors call a "user". While such a piece is a wonder to see, I'm happier to find the upper-end of "very good" - especially if it's dusty. I make a little rig money fixing them up :) 73, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do." - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Kevin Elliott To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Here is a sample of a description I did for a "collector Condition" rig. It is not perfect as it had to fit in a limited space, but it might give you a few ideas of what to ask and/or what to state in an offer. Even being as objective as I can be, someone would still need to know my reputation for accurate descriptors in order to trust in the sale. BTW, this offer was at about 30% above the "market" for a claimed-working, as is example. Curt I have worked on several of these TS-700A's over the past couple of years and this is the 2nd nicest one I have seen. Using the Drake/Collins grading standard, this 700A is a VERY GOOD ++ . Nearly un-molested as far as I could see, (Some of the wire wrap posts have been soldered but it was done neatly.) No mods that I can see, and only a couple of very neatly done maintenance-type repairs. You will have to look very carefully to tell it has been serviced. I have checked this rig out thoroughly on the bench side-by-side with an IC-211. The VFO is on frequency and the offsets work. All modes function as they should. Output is as close to spec as I can measure. The knobs and front face are excellent. No scratches or rub-offs. (the band selector has a scuff on the face you can see in the pictures--not a scratch--just a scuff) All the lighting works. The case is very good. There are a couple of scuffed areas on the top. The scuffs are not thru the paint and may be able to be polished out. I have made NO effort to cover, touch-up, or otherwise hide any scuffs or scratches. There are a few minor scratches thru the paint on the bottom of the case. The pictures tell the story. The leather handle is in very good condition. Includes the original 9 pin acc plug and the original AC power cord. (could convert it to DC if you want to). I DO NOT have a mic to include. Will include PDF copies of the Operators and Service Manuals on CD. You can view an album of photos of this rig at: http://picasaweb.google.com/captcurt08/TS700A?feat=directlink I will guarantee your satisfaction with this rig..If you don't think it is as I represent, or it does not meet your expectations, return it to me in the same condition, by the same transport means and I will send you a full refund. I will be happy to answer questions or provide more info. Use eMail. ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Hi Jim: Absolutely! It is sooo difficult to quantify condition. Anyone that is considering the purchase of a true collector radio, at an elevated price, like any collectable, would do well to inspect in person or get a known authority to do same--else, take your chances. If you never expect it to be above average, you will rarely be disappointed. There are very very few "mint" rigs out there that are older than a year. Finally, the worst "clause" in a description is: ".for its age". Like "this radio is perfect considering its age"...or .."absolutely mint for a radio of this vintage"These are laughable in many cases...I call it "the door-stop scale of collectable radio grading" Cheers, Curt KU8L On 12/8/2011 2:40 PM, Jim DiMauro wrote: Kevin: Sorry for the glib answer I gave earlier, but the term "collector quality" is so subjective as to be completely meaningless without further definition on the part of the seller. Even grading "standards" are highly subjective, and you'll get four different grades from three different people who apply a standard to a given piece of gear. It's like asking what something is "worth." BTW, I stand behind my intial answer! 73, Jim W2BVM *From:* Kevin Elliott *To:* "drakelist@zerobeat.net" *Sent:* Thursday, December 8, 2011 2:02 PM *Subject:* [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net <mailto:Drakelist@zerobeat.net> http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Kevin: Sorry for the glib answer I gave earlier, but the term "collector quality" is so subjective as to be completely meaningless without further definition on the part of the seller. Even grading "standards" are highly subjective, and you'll get four different grades from three different people who apply a standard to a given piece of gear. It's like asking what something is "worth." BTW, I stand behind my intial answer! 73, Jim W2BVM From: Kevin Elliott To: "drakelist@zerobeat.net" Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Here is the link to the CCA Grading: http://www.collinsradio.org/html/cca_grading.html Also note the differences in restored grading v. original condition grading. Curt KU8L On 12/8/2011 2:02 PM, Kevin Elliott wrote: Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
"So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words?" A high price. :o) From: Kevin Elliott To: "drakelist@zerobeat.net" Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
I have used words to that effect but always state the reference scale as the CCA condition metric scale that references SPECIFIC features for different ratings. THings like Original paint, dents, chips, panel scratches, mods, panel lettering, etc all roll into it. Google the Collins Collectors Assoc. Site for the condition scale for more info. Curt On 12/8/2011 2:02 PM, Kevin Elliott wrote: Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] What does "Collector Condition" mean to you
Say a ham has an T4XC transmitter and matching R4C receiver that he states in his ad they are in "Collector Condition". So what do you picture in your mind when you read an ad using those words? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
