RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
(top posting fixed) Jim K6JM wrote: I can see they are running D-Star Monitor, but I don't see evidence of DPlus. Am I missing something? Fran W1RJM wrote: How can you tell? http://dsync.dstarusers.org/index.php normally if there is an issue with dplus it will show in the box for the repeater ... like some are showing (in red): dplus = Not current or: dplus = Not Installed You can also get the details from the script: Scroll to the bottom - enter W1HQ into the callsign box click: Search History Status reported as of 2001-09-06 01:00:03 (script 2.0j) dsipsvd (root:2555) dsgwd (root:2534) postgres (postgres:2424) httpd (root:2450) java (root:2265) dplus (root:8996) named (named:1918) DSM ok (DSM= 2265 APRS=none running) Mem: 16MB Free, 249MB Total GW_VER=2.1 Bob McCormick W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: bind challenge - any ideas?
Reply to an older post: Gateway W5KA resolves every domain we've tried EXCEPT www.google.com. This is more of a curiosity since everything important seems to work. Any bind users have an idea? I received the same 3 blocks as you (block 3 from 192.5.6.30#53(a.gtld- servers.net) instead of 192.52.178.30#53(k.gtld-servers.net) like you), but then I got the following block 4: www.google.com. 604800 IN CNAME www.l.google.com. www.l.google.com. 300 IN A 74.125.43.99 www.l.google.com. 300 IN A 74.125.43.105 www.l.google.com. 300 IN A 74.125.43.103 www.l.google.com. 300 IN A 74.125.43.147 www.l.google.com. 300 IN A 74.125.43.104 www.l.google.com. 300 IN A 74.125.43.106 (snip) Don't know if it is related ... but a few weeks back the root servers started signing authoritative UDP responses. One of our D-STAR gateways is behind a corporate firewall that had a rule to drop DNS (port 53) UDP packets that exceeded 512 bytes in length. I was seeing those drops in a syslog ... and some now and then strangeness at the distant end doing the DNS resolution. Removed the rule from the firewall and all is well. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Finally, an Open G2 that runs on ICOM repeater-controller hardware.
Scott KI4LKF wrote: We will wait a little longer so that the software can be presented at the International Fair this November, ... What international fair is that? Currently we are busy taking orders and installing it around the country at multiple ICOM G2 hardware sites and also home-brew(GMSK) Linux systems. Around the country means around the USA? Has any of your efforts resulted in being able to run this software on repeater systems and gateways that are part of the K5TIT trust server network? We know you've waited 5 years or so for another group to release an Open Gateway, which of course we do not believe it will ever happen, jugding from the BINARY only attitude that these other groups have. To be honest - from my point of view it is not important whether the D-STAR gateway code is open or not ... or source or binary. What does matter is that it works, qualified and accepted by the trust server that we choose to be connected to ... and that it provides at least the same functionality with the foundation for future enhancements and capabilities. Thanks Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Finally, an Open G2 that runs on ICOM repeater-controller hardware.
David G4LUF wrote: As people have been working hard to fix the routing between the Japanese and non-Japanese networks, it is my belief that it is unhelpful for any individual to promote further partition of the worldwide D-Star network. I second that assessment. Found at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/D_STAR_Open_Source/ We use the name Open Source or home-brew D STAR or D_STAR, not D-STAR because D-STAR is a registered U.S. TM of ICOM America D-STAR is not a trademark of ICOM America. http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/dstar/dstar/default.aspx The D-STAR stands for Digital Smart Technologies for Amateur Radio. It is an open standard digital communication protocol established by JARL*. As you should know, D-STAR as a standard and technology was developed by the JARL: http://www.jarl.com/d-star/ http://www.jarl.com/d-star/shogen.pdf Bob W1QA HS0ZIF VR2/W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Finally, an Open G2 that runs on ICOM repeater-controller hardware.
Pete AE5PL wrote: D-STAR is not a trademark of ICOM America. Umm, yes it is in the US. Actually, it is a trademark of Icom Incorporated, not Icom America. http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=4001:80rd3f.2.1 I believe, specifically, this is in reference to their D-STAR logo but nonetheless... Thanks - I stand partially corrected. That USPTO link expired ... here is the info from a query done 2047Z on 3 Oct 2009: Word MarkD-STAR Goods and Services Communication equipment namely repeaters and transceivers for amateur radio communications Mark Drawing Code(1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number76535996 Filing Date July 30, 2003 Registration Number 2866400 Registration DateJuly 27, 2004 Owner(REGISTRANT) ICOM INCORPORATED CORPORATION JAPAN 1-6-19, Kamikurazukuri, Hirano-ku Osaka-shi, Osaka JAPAN I will have to search back through some emails - but I believe we had this question come up on one of the DSTAR lists in the past and it was noted that the JARL held the D-STAR name. I would expect that this US trade mark office registration is for the logo ... as if another manufacturer were to create a D-STAR compatible piece of equipment ... if the name D-STAR was owned by ICOM they'd have to give attribution to ICOM - and possibly other consideration as well? Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Finally, an Open G2 that runs on ICOM repeater-controller hardware.
Scott KI4LKF wrote: Their European ICOM TRUST server has 404 DSTAR gateways in the SYNC_GIP and 7800 registred radio users in the SYNC_RIP table. Based on the numbers presented at Dayton in May 2009 regarding where the K5TIT trust server was ... those numbers sound pretty high. Did this so-called European trust server end up getting a copy of a database off of something that was at once connected to K5TIT or the v1 trust server in Japan? Or is this database contain a number of made up entries just for testing purposes? I have a hard time believing that there are 404 active D-STAR gateways (read: repeater systems) on this trust server - let alone 7,800 unique registered real users. Again, the TRUST server does not come into play. Right. In which case I am perplexed about your aforementioned note about the so-called European trust server and how many gateways and users it has in its database tables. What's the point? The important question: Have you done any testing with the K5TIT trust server? (I would ask the same for testing against the Japanese trust server but if I understand correctly they are still running v1 so if you're code emulates v2 protocols then probably incompatible.) Bob McCormick W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New poll for dstar_digital
VK3JED wrote: Where's the I don't visit the archive option? ;) I rarely read Yahoo groups on the web, and I maintain my own email archives. I'll second that ... but more interesting - in attempt to visit this link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/surveys?id=2551325 First gave me a can't find the page error ... after some minutes - page did display - but wants me to log into Yahoo! For sorry don't have a Yahoo! ID so can't partake in this (and the other) survey. I am subscribed to three of the (Yahoo! based!) D-STAR email lists in text only format. I archive postings of interest on my own system. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Simplify Abreviations for Alpha Tags
Ed Woodrick wrote: As far as I know, there's only one basic convention where you don't end up with a bunch of exceptions. CALLSIGN Given that callsigns are unique ... but often they don't even give you a hint of anything to do with geographical location. W1 D-STAR repeater in Florida - or an area as expanse as some of the US callsign districts. Even Pete's modified CLLI code has issues, CA is both a state and a country. Every country has a Universal Postal Union two letter country code: http://www.upu.int/post_code/en/list_of_sites_by_country.html AR = Arkansas and Argentina AZ = Arizona and Azerbijan DE = Delaware and Germany o o o ZIP Codes can come close, except that no one knows what 23324 is. Right. And not very useful for someone traveling ... as you may know something about a nearby large city but no idea what the ZIP (or even SCF, first three digits of the ZIP code) is. Airport codes can sometime work, but we've got a couple of repeaters whose closest airport is the same one. And LZU or 1AB aren't necessarily readily recognizable as well. As someone who has traveled extensively for 30+ years ... I have a good handle on airport codes. But I agree: what good is some regional airport that has a code but is not recognizable or known? I do like a scheme that has some sort construct to it. And I think it should consider a wide scope, e.g., work in / for multiple countries. Of what's been posted so far ... I like the modified CLLI idea ... country, state, additional info. In the US - one of the things that I have always been frustrated with is the repeater directory. Repeaters are organised by regions ... but again - many times a visitor wouldn't know anything about what those areas are. Even worse - a lot of times repeaters in the same general area are listed in two separate places. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: What is required for a D-Star Repeater?
How much trouble is there in tuning a duplexer? I'm not equipped, at present, with a lot of test equipment. If you purchase a new duplexer from a manufacturer such as TX-RX you can provide them with the transmit and receive frequencies and they will tune it up for you. If you can't get a coordinated frequency before you receive the duplexer - you could see if they would be willing to ship it to you pre-tuned on an uncoordinated test pair (ask your local spectrum management group what to use - most have one or more repeater pairs for testing, etc.) ... and see if you can send it back to be re-tuned for your final frequencies when you receive them. I've sent equipment back to TX-RX ... we upgraded a 23cm duplexer to be a tri-plexer (to support D-STAR digital voice and high speed data) and they were really good about retuning, new phasing lines, etc. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Wouldn't It Be Nice ?
Adrian VK4TUX shaped the electrons to say: Very good point Fran, really the onus is on the operator to unlink before undertaking a routed session. Thats probably the reason Robin did not adopt the idea and implement it. OK - but what if the admins / trustees don't want people to unlink? Or if they do unlink - are they going to put the link back after they are done? Running a cron job to do this (restore linking) is a hack IMO ... Another idea may be perhaps an automatic unlink by dplus when it detects a non cqcqcq call within the gateway. Unlinking will be the only solution to stop incoming dplus streams during a routed qso as you described. OK - I would accept that if the linking could be automatically re-established, for example, after a certain amount of inactivity after being unlinked (because of the non UR=CQCQCQ) ... Still: Let's say you have two, three or four repeaters that are connected to a regional reflector - to make in effect a regional repeater covering a larger area. And then assume you have users that communicate across the reflector - some users use system A and some users use system B - and rely on the dplus reflector support to seamlessly link the systems together. If one of the repeaters becomes unlinked from the reflector (either through command or software detection) ... one would likely find users on the remaining (still connected) repeaters not knowing that the other system is unconnected. To me (as a user) that would be very frustrating ... especially if I made use of the fact that I could talk (use) my local D-STAR system to regularly speak with other D-STAR users that can't necessarily reach/access my local system. Does this make sense? My personal opinion: Although on the onset I was sold on the standard ICOM gateway callsign routing capabilities ... as we have built out our sites I am much more interested in the dplus and reflector capabilities. And this is being mentioned by someone who does do a fair amount of travel. Hopefully the ideas and comments in this thread are being captured by those working in the background on new, improved D-STAR capabilities! Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Wouldn't It Be Nice ?
Nate Duehr WY0X wrote: If D-Plus would simply refuse to send any packets to links or Reflectors with anything other than CQCQCQ in the UR field, the problem would be solved. It's a *really easy fix* that allows both callsign routing and Reflectors to live in relative harmony, and only requires the end user to put in the same ol' CQCQCQ they'd use to talk locally. I second the suggestion / recommendation ... sounds like a perfect solution to me. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Wouldn't It Be Nice ?
Fran wrote: I SAY LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS. IT WORKS FINE. I don't understand why to want to stop them from going to the reflector Goes back to the issue of mixing callsign routing and using a reflector. There are cases where sometimes a listening party will only hear one side of the conversation. I think it's a good solution: If a user wants to use a/the repeater that is connected to a reflector - use UR=CQCQCQ and RPT2=callsign G (gateway). If a user does anything else (e.g., traditional ICOM/D-STAR routing and not DPLUS) then don't repeat the stream to the reflector. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: First home-made dstar G2 gateway went live today.
Scott wrote: It is dstarusers.eu ands it is an ICOM TRUST server as the k5tit trust. I talk from my dstar repeater to the other dstar repeaters in that TRUST. (snip) We will set up one in Canada and one in the US. So who is the group that runs dstusers.eu? And who is we? A lot of your posts are quite nebulous ... but if one were interested in these efforts you are providing little details to support it. dstarusers.eu = 89.238.76.109 That address is swip'ed at RIPE to Manitu in St Wendel, Germany. It has no rDNS entry. It answers to HTTP requests with a default Apache page. I guess if I didn't have content to serve up ... I would probably either put a landing page there or disable http ... How many repeaters are on the dstarusers.eu trust server? Where are they? How does one get registered to use a repeater that has joined with that trust server? When you say we will set one up in Canada and one in the US ... does one mean a stand-alone ICOM TRUST server at each location? (If so - that would mean you would have three separate TRUST server implementations, DL, VE and W?) FWIW: when I first got the gateway v1 software I took the time to actually try a trust server setup as I had a repeater controller and 70cm band module on the bench. We had some local discussions as to whether we wanted to run our own, local multi-site D-STAR system ... which would require a stand-alone trust server - or - be a part of a larger trust server realm. There is no clashing at all. The TRUST servers are separate. We decided to be part of the larger network ... for all the reasons that other respondents have mentioned on this list. Although I can acknowledge that there may be some situations where a group may want to have their own trust server and private network ... I would put my money on the majority of both D-STAR users and repeater owners/trustees would lean towards an architecture where all systems can interoperate. Bob W1QA HS0ZIF VR2/W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: more DV / FM questions
Bob K0NR wrote: I wrote an article for CQ VHF magazine (Winter 2009 issue) that describes how GMSK works in D-STAR, without going too deep into the details. I put a pdf version of it out on my web site, if anyone is interested in reading it. http://www.k0nr.com/Files/CQ%20VHF%20Article%20on%20D-STAR%20modulation.pdf Nice read - thanks for sharing. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Surf the Web Wirelessly via D-Star!
Chris N7ICE wrote: The D-Star digital mode is becoming more popular with nearly 10,000 registered D-Star gateway users worldwide. These Icom radios allow you to deliver voice and data communications simultaneously over the same frequency! Imaging being able to surf the web from a laptop or iPod Touch over wireless internet for free! Chris Matthieu, N7ICE, demonstrates how to surf the web via an Icom ID-1 D-Star ham radio! Check out the HamBrief.TV episode 32 video at http://www.73s.org! Chris: I have to echo Evans's comments as well. To someone who is not familiar with D-STAR your posting above is both confusing and somewhat inaccurate. Although it is conceivable that you could connect an ID-1 to a WiFi access point thereby allowing your iPod Touch (I own one BTW) to access the D-STAR network ... I'm not sure that's a typical way that this would be utilised. More importantly - my interpretation of the FCC regulations for US implementations would prohibit the use of the D-STAR digital data network for general Internet connectivity. The D-STAR 23cm digital data implementation would be typical of two ISDN BRI's ... most generally available Internet resources today (especially web sites) are not being designed for low bandwidth connections ... a couple of users doing general surfing over the 23cm DD link would probably saturate it (bad performance). What *IS* cool about the 23cm DD capabilities is that its IP based -- which means that one can implement all kinds of applications (including web based solutions). People and groups who are building applications on top of the D-STAR digital data capabilities are doing so with a sensitivity to the characteristics of the network. (Low graphic content, low bandwidth utilisation, etc.) And having the ability to connect a D-STAR digital data network to the Internet is great in that it can allow applications and solutions to extend beyond a repeater's local network. But a D-STAR digital data network is not a replacement for an Internet Service Provider (ISP). Bob McCormick W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] CROSSPOST: Response to call for FCC action. [United States]
John Hays wrote: Since the rptDir group is moderated, this response may not get posted, so I am crossposting this response to the message at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/rtpDir/message/1991 (snip) The aforementioned URL is not useful unless you have a Yahoo! login - which I don't. (Was the Yahoo! group posting one in the same with the posting at the bottom of your original post in this thread?) I also agree with the don't feed the trolls recommendations ... Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DStar uses
Gary KN4AQ wrote: The 440 UHF band has LOTS of room, at least in Region Two. In many / most places, sure. But in the US ... still need to remember the amateur service has secondary allocation. Here in New England with the PAVE PAWS radar 70cm is pretty much off limits. (May be why we've got a lot of 33cm systems being built out albeit no D-STAR equipment there!) Acres of space is set aside for ATV, which, arguably, isn't pulling its weight on 440 and should be heading for wider pastures up the spectrum. Agreed. It would be nice if DD (the 128 kbps data mode) could be included in the dual-band radios and repeaters. Some new spectrum management would be needed. In the US can we run that bandwidth and modulation on 70cm? Adding to that though: I think the cost of the ID-1 is a barrier for many people ... nice if there was DD on a lower frequency band - but also at a reduced cost. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Server Req for ID-RP2C and ID-RP4000V?
Jeff K7WIN wrote: I have a WRT52GS (Firmware Version: v4.71.1, Hyperwrt 2.1b1 + Thibor15c) connected to cable (15 Mb down and 1.5 Mb up) and a Gigabit Router (managable). Will this do what I need? Will I need a real (static) IP? You don't need a static IP. But an IP that doesn't change very often is a good thing. Having a static IP makes it easier for management purposes ... for VPN tunnel, ssh, etc. As for the WRT52GS device: will it allow you to set the net mask on the trusted side to /8? That is: 255.0.0.0 A lot of the inexpensive home/consumer firewall routers don't (properly) support the 10.0.0.0/8 network you need on the trusted ports. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Multiple call sign routing question
Susan VK3ANZ wrote: I have several call signs registered for the D-Star network - one with just my call sign and others with 'M' and 'P' for when I'm mobile/portable. My question is: do each of these appear as different 'users' for the purposes of call sign routing? For example: I use my standard call sign in my home town, and then fly to another city where I use the 'P' variant. Someone wants to contact me and enters my standard call sign as the 'Your Call (UR or whatever) - does this get routed to the last place I used my standard call sign or to the last place I used any variant of my call sign? Consider each variant of your call as unique. Therefore if I wanted to communicate with you I would have to try your regular call and if that didn't work the M and P suffixes ... of course, that would be with the knowledge that you in fact use those. I don't know too many people that use the different identifiers -- unless you are going to have two rigs on the air (network) at the same time I can't think of any reason to do it. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: D-Star to listen to reflectors or distant repeaters
Good lord, what did Yahoo do to my proper PUNCTUATION on that last message?! That was NOT typed up that way! Sigh. strange. Thanks Yahoo. wow. That's weird! Nate WY0X [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] (lots of blank lines removed) HTML based email? (maybe try plain text) Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Encryption on Amateur Frequencies
Kip AE5IB wrote: We can use any and all of standard encryption (WEP, WPA etc.) on our 2.4 GHz routers that we convert to ham use, because the purpose is not to obscure or hide the meaning of the transmission, but to prevent non-licensed users access to our Amateur networks with part 15 equipment. The requirement is that if you do, you have the key or password written in your log book or published. Just to clarify since this is an international based email list ... you are speaking to FCC regulations for US Amateurs. Can you cite where it says you have to have the key or password written in your log book or published? It is similar to encrypting satellite control commands. There is a very specific set of rules that govern this and space stations in general as set forth in 47 CFR Part 97. §97.207 is for space station operation: (f) Space telemetry transmissions may consist of specially coded messages intended to facilitate communications or related to the function of the spacecraft. §97.211 (b) reiterates basically the same thing with very similar language. Here is one of many locations where you can find the Part 97 US Amateur Radio Service rules: http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/ Bob McCormick W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] 'Possible' Cloning Software Issue
Another reason to avoid Vista. The IOGear uses the FTDI chipset which is in a LOT of those USB-to- serial adapters, and is one of the BEST performers on XP. Vista's just sad, sad, sad. I've got quite a few USB devices using a couple different FTDI chips and no issues with Vista. And one pushes some pretty decent data rates. FTDI may have the only 64-bit signed drivers. But I will also note that the DV Dongle, which uses the FTDI FT232RL device will crash a Windows 7 beta 64-bit build on a system with more than 4GB of memory at boot time if it is plugged into the system. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] 'Possible' Cloning Software Issue
I know this is off-topic but I think the question is legit - one I had myself and actually took the time to try to do a couple of controlled tests. No bashing here. Just facts. Does Vista do anything better or faster than XP on the *same hardware*? Yes. Purchased a new DELL Precision 690 Workstation. Dual Xeon 5130's - 4 GB memory - 15,000 RPM SAS drives Came with Windows XP 32-bit Loaded Adobe Premier Pro and associated A/V content. Rendered large DVD project. Wiped the system disk clean and installed Vista Ultimate 32-bit. Reloaded Adobe Premier Pro. A/V content on its own drives. Rendered exact same project. Took 13% less wall time. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: ICOM announced new hand-held and mobile D-STAR transceivers, ID-80 and ID-880
On the W1KK system we recently upgraded the 23cm duplexer to be a triplexer. And we've got a new antenna and a couple of hundred feet of 1 5/8 that will be going up as soon as the WX permits. With decent HAAT 23cm plays quite well ... not much different than 33cm and we have a lot of new 33cm systems that have been deployed here in New England. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Voice vs. Data - Was Re Hash Permissible Communications.....
John Hays K7VE wrote: Like Jess, I was of the opinion that data could go in the voice portion, until someone pointed out the demarcation about a year ago, see: http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/d-305.html#305 - of course this is HF and straying from topic. Although the cite is for HF based stuff ... I think this is somewhat on-topic. I'm on the board of the NESMC (New England Spectrum Management Council). A couple of years ago when a few of us in western Massachusetts got interested in D-STAR I did some research - and then had some discussions at NESMC board meetings regarding how to handle coordinations for systems based on D-STAR and other digital or narrow-band technologies as well as wide-band D-STAR digital data (23cm). In working with the band coordinators subsequent to those discussions we tried to establish what the emissions designator for D-STAR would be (which would include the occupied bandwidth). I even posted in the ICOM forums and never really got a good or clear answer. Most of the FCC Part 97 rules only use the first three characters of the emissions designator. (See info in the URL in John K7VE's orig post.) I would personally rather see designators listed versus phone, image, etc. And since we have band segments - why not limit those segments to maximum emission bandwidth? Again - gets back to rules maybe not keeping up with the times. In similar light - I don't think it makes sense to limit transmitter power (see §97.313) in PEP. Very few part 97 rules use ERP. To wit: in New England in an area around Cape Cod (100+ km radius) power is limited to 50 W PEP on 70cm (where the Amateur service is a secondary user). In practicality the PAVE PAWS radar on Cape Cod has required even lower power emissions; many 70cm repeaters have had to go silent. I have no idea why system gain is not considered ... archaic. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: The big DStar breakthrough needs to be ...
John Hays K7VE replied to my recent posting: John: I neither want to hijack this thread ... or get too deep into this as there is most certainly a lot of grey (or is it gray?!) area. Probably a good discussion but one that will in the immediate term probably never reach a solid conclusion as so much is open to interpretation. In the end - it is certainly up to each licensee, control operator, etc. to interpret what regulations apply, enforce them and be held accountable. I certainly didn't want to imply that D-STAR should be limited to the universal lowest common denominator for world-wide regulations! Elaborating on this: Things that are unacceptable: - booking an airline reservation at a web site How is this different than ordering a pizza over an autopatch (which the FCC has specifically allowed)? I don't know / have not heard about the FCC specifically allowing ordering a pizza over an auto patch or similar activities. If that is the case (acceptable) ... OK ... still - as a control op I would frown on it. I would consider booking an airline ticket a business transaction and something that shouldn't be done over Amateur radio. (If the FCC regs in the US actually allow then OK - I need to get a cite so I can be up-to-date with the rules.) But maybe more importantly - that airline reservation over the Internet would probably make use of HTTPS (SSL) encryption ... and my personal opinion would be HTTPS traffic probably shouldn't be allowed (as its encrypted). What do you / others think on that one (SSL)? - sending/receiving email from your company's servers This is a touchy one, but you can call your office over an autopatch to invite a co-worker to lunch, as long as you don't facilitate your business in the process. So reading email, of a non-business nature would probably be OK, you certainly couldn't email your boss to report on a project or a subordinate giving them tasks to perform. Ayup. Agreed. And then there is the question about even sending information over the Internet (and D-STAR) in clear text. Let's say you have a POP3 account (whether work or otherwise). And you use the POP3 protocol which will send your username and password to the POP3 server in clear text. Anyone listening as the man in the middle now has your access info ... FWIW - at the $dayjob the only way to access the mail server externally is via SSL. (No IMAP or POP3, etc.) - general Internet web browsing (because a lot of it has commercial content) Again, it all depends but I think most people are more comfortable with only access to a limited number of sites. What I didn't include in my original reply ... but I was thinking: This problem: limited number of sites is much like the issues libraries and other public places that provide Internet access have. Many want to limit the reach of what sites folks can access. (Here I am thinking of blocking sites that would be considered socially unacceptable.) In any event - we have a 23cm DV + DD on one of our local D-STAR systems but the gateway is not yet connected to the Internet. Once it is ... there is less than a handful of people that have the requisite rig to use D-STAR DD. I think for the time being, in our area, the minimal interest and high entry cost for the ID-1 radio really diminishes any concerns I have about Internet access over D-STAR. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Audio issue on 2820's?
Evans wrote: So, it went in for something warranty, came out better then when it went in... Did you send the mic with it? I like my 2820 ... but I am more than frustrated with the mic - sometimes I key it and it seems to transmit but there's no audio. Hence I'm wondering if some of the audio quality problems / comments are related to the mic more than the radio? For sure I had to also boost the mic audio in the rig - by default it was low and crappy ... and I've got a baritone voice and usually talk softly which compounds the problem. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Has it been devoloped yet?
Jack wrote: ... but was also looking to see if there was a software solution to being able to listen / transmit on DS via a PC as yet with out a dongle it is only a matter of time till it is done Probably unlikely. The D-STAR architecture is open except for the fact that they utilised the AMBE chip (as was pointed out previously - and accurately). These chips are fairly inexpensive - I believe maybe as low as $20 each. Part of that cost is the license. Please see this Wiki article for the basics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Multi-Band_Excitation And if you want more detailed information please see: http://www.dvsinc.com/products/software.htm The DVS technologies have been around for a while and are used (as you can see in the URL above) in a lot of different communications systems. If someone were to reverse engineer the algorithms such that you could encode and decode an AMBE stream you'd be hard pressed to be able to legitimately distribute such software. Today the DV Dongle represents a real good solution: it simply connects to your host system (operating system inspecific) and software can (via the dongle's USB interface) essentially perform D/A and A/D conversions with the device. Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Invitations to other ham groups.
Fred van Kempen wrote: Actually, this is nonsense Scott- you can either select (one of your existing) email address(es), or you can have the registration process create one for you - in which case that will be a Yahoo address, indeed. But it is NOT a requirement to have a Yahoo address.. I don't want to drag this thread into the off-topic realm or beat it to death ... Correct: you don't have to have a Yahoo! email address to have a Yahoo! account! You can use an email address in any domain to create a Yahoo! account. But in reality - Yahoo! actually will filter and block some addresses from being used to sign up for Yahoo! accounts. For example, let's say you create an email address in your own domain like [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! will not let you register that address as an account on their system. The issues is NOT anything about the email address (like [EMAIL PROTECTED] versus [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ... but one of having a Yahoo! account. When you sign up for a Yahoo! account (no matter what email address you use) you are likely providing Yahoo! with some personal information. You are also granting Yahoo! the right to put some cookies on your system ... which gives Yahoo! the ability to track any resource you may be using that is Yahoo! based. This may also include some level of info for third parties as well. And Yahoo! also uses something called web beacons to access Yahoo! cookies inside and outside our network of web sites and in connection with Yahoo! products and services. This includes HTML email. For more information view the Yahoo! privacy policy, sub policy on web beacons and terms of service. My personal preference is to not allow Yahoo! (or other companies doing similar things) to have access to (my) personal information ... or use that in conjunction with tracking information that is loaded on my system and later utilised for data mining. Thankfully this and the other D-STAR email lists (which are hosted on Yahoo!) still allow one to subscribe, post and receive messages via email ... and text based at that. Now back to your regular D-STAR digital discussions ... Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR] RE: [dstar_digital] Backup Befuddled
George WA3PNT wrote: 2. I understand the bit image, but is Bob saying that Acronis does not do this? My connotation of bit image is a bit-by-bit copy of every sector on a disk whether or not it has any valid information on it as far as the file system would be concerned. By default Acronis True Image recognizes the disk partition's format and makes copies of information in that partition ... probably based on a table of allocated sectors. There is a box you can tick when making your backup selection to do that full disk copy - I've only used that on one occasion where the disk was corrupted and I was working on data extraction. 3. Do you boot from the Acronis CD to run the program? Yes. Buy the product - which you can do easily on-line and download. Install on a system (even if temporarily). Create the recovery (boot) optical media. Optionally remove it from a system if you don't want it there. Use the optical media for your backup and restore needs. 4. If #3 is not the case, does Acronis make a version that will run under CentOS 5.1? http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/ http://eqca.download.acronis.com/pdf/TrueImage2009_datasheet.en.pdf No - according to the aforementioned PDF. Supported file systems: - FAT16/32, NTFS, Linux Ext2/Ext3, ReiserFS, Linux Swap - Raw Images support for other partitions and corrupted file systems (the latter is maybe what you mean by bit image?) Here are some of the approaches I use with True Image Home where I typically dump my images to: - a dedicated backup disk running in the system - a IEEE1394 800b disk and interface - over the network to a server (SMB/FTP/etc.) HTH Bob W1QA
RE: [DSTAR] RE: [dstar_digital] Backup Befuddled
Gus CRTech *at* hot.rr.com wrote: While I have not tried it on a linux box, I would think that would work simply because Acronis makes bit images and does not really care what is actually on the hard drive. (snip) Not totally accurate. Acronis True Image (most users typically use the home version) does know about the format of a disk's partition. There *IS* a mode where Acronis can make a sector copy of a disk ... you'd want to do that when either the disk structure is corrupt or unknown to Acronis. Otherwise Acronis will read the FAT, FAT32, NTFS, EXT, etc. structure and only copy the blocks/sectors that are in-use. Bob W1QA
[DSTAR] Subject tagging ...
Did someone change the Subject tag on this mailing list from [dstar_digital] to [DSTAR]? Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] CentOS back up solution
Steve W5EN wrote: Now that we have our DStar gateway working at WU5PIG it is time to create a full back up of the computer running our internet link. Can someone point me to a good backup solution that will run well with CentOS. I would prefer something that will make a realtime back up without having to take the system off line. In an emergency I don't mind reloading the OS but I would prefer to then go to the back up solution and restore everything. If you prefer to respond off list I am redbirdsfan82 at yahoo dot com. I think this has been touched on before ... if you have time check the archives. I know there's some Linux based utilities that can accomplish this. On our end - the two gateways I've setup use hardware raid 1 (mirroring) to help with availability and uptime. I use Acronis True Image which can easily make an image copy of a volume ... including to a USB or IEEE1394 attached disk. Of course, you have to take the system down to do this but given the amount of space actually used - it didn't take very long. And you've got a guaranteed good snapshot image of the disk which you can restore at any point in the future ... Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Thanks for info
Jim wrote: Thanks for the sync cable info ne? what type of GPS can I get (not a lot of $$$) that can directly plug into ID800 A couple of years ago I built up a HamHUD II ... and picked up a Deluo GPS device from Jason KE4NYV out at the Dayton Hamvention. I think it was under US $50.00. A little thing - about 3cm square ... provide it power and it talks back EIA-232-D and will probably talk to the ID-800. http://www.ke4nyv.com/ http://www.deluo.com Drop Jason KE4NYV an email and I'm sure he can point you in the right direction (if you can't source something yourself). GL - Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Preference for V82 vs. U82?
Joel Koltner KE7CDV wrote: Given how inexpensive the V82 and U82 are at the moment (I have a semi-spare UT-118 board around), is there any particular reason to choose one over the other? I'm thinking... -- There are more UHF D*Star repeaters around then VHF -- Coverage might be slightly better on VHF, although higher gain antennas (for the same physical size) at UHF perhaps make up for this Anything I'm not thinking of here? I find less multipath issues whilst mobile on 70cm. Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Callsigns for Larger D-Star Repeater Networks
Thanks Chuck for the detailed reply to the list: Interesting maps at the URL's you provided. Linking between the sites: Having a few megabits per second of bandwidth may not be a bad idea - especially if you implement 23cm DD. For the normal ERP limitations in the 5.x GHz bands some of those distances may be excessive for any link you would call reliable. But since it is public safety already - see what they have done/used for intersite linking. You may be able to design your own network -- and then have a couple of Internet ingress/egress points in the network ... making it fault tolerant and reliable. Actually I was thinking of calls such as X8XXn^X where the n would be a number added directly to the end of a shorter call. That should not be confused with the actual call. Well - that gets back to the issue of the identifier. My read on this: the first 6 characters of the field needs to contain a valid callsign. Of course, different jurisdictions may have different levels of enforcement. (Meaning FCC or equiv in other countries.) To be honest - there are some of us that chat on one of our local systems (still no gateway) and we don't necessarily (voice) identify all the time ... because the ID is transmitted in every transmission. Consider that you can use D-STAR without ever saying anything ... and there have been emergency drills and activities that have solely used the data aspects of the system. In those cases - the ID is in the D-STAR headers. And since the repeater has no other way to ID ... what is in the header IS the ID. And WX8XX4 would not be a valid callsign ... ... or perhaps to ask for calls that could use actual letters from the site names as the part of the call after the numeral. Yup. That's what I would do. Take your favourite US first letter - find an acceptable second letter ... add the numeral and then a three letter suffix that is coordinated with the site. The reason why I suggest that scheme ... you are more likely to find if you choose a prefix that is not in wide use you can successfully get all the suffixes you'd want. I'm wondering if we could ask for a special prefix also to make that more possible (bring back the WR or KR prefix?). Sad to say: nope and nope and nope ... You can ask for any unassigned call in FCC regions 1-10 ... but no call from blocks allocated to regions 11-13 unless your address is there. Also remember that some calls are limited to certain license classes. Please see this authoritative source: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?id=amateurjob=call_signs_3 Or this shorter link: http://tinyurl.com/4npyza Please review the Call Sign Availability section Also please visit this link on the aforementioned page: Sequential Call Sign System Another complicating factor is frequency coordination, so we're going to be modeling using the same frequency multiple times throughout the network. My guess is we can do this with as little as 4 pairs, which would result in minimum separation of about 50 miles. I was thinking this would be possible with D-Star since only the desired repeater should respond anyway. Has anyone else modeled or tested this with D-Star? Sure - if you're in 2m or 70cm ... using the same frequency for your plots, that's cool. BUT: I would strongly suggest against a design where you have co-channel systems that could have a mobile user (say the typical IC-2820) that would be in-between sites. Remember: even though this is digital ... it is still just RF. And with a close spaced co-channel design could result in a distant mobile using a further distant repeater blocking a close-in handheld user. Here in New England - we've been successful at coordinating a number of D-STAR systems on 10 kHz channels in the 145 part of the 2m repeater band. Up on 70cm that's a lot easier (other than in New England we have PAVE PAWS radar that has just about shut down 70cm operations in the populated part of Mass). The last issue is whether to use duplexers or dual antennas at each site and whether to share the transmission lines with all bands and use commercial band combiners and splitters. This is plumbing. D-STAR is still just RF. Invest in good front end filtering on the D-STAR systems. Don't rely solely on just a duplexer ... look at some multiple pole filters (we use DCI). GL Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] reflector linking
Evans KD4EFM wrote: As for Reflector information, that is somewhat a behind the scenes kind of thing. The gateway that has DPLUS installed on it, knows what and where the reflectors are. As to how many since it's inception, there are now 10 reflectors online since Robin's latest update of DPLUS. (snip) So if a number of local D-STAR systems would like to create a regional network the best approach would be to probably setup a region specific reflector ... Where does one find info about how to set one up? (Including hardware and bandwidth requirements?) Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Help with poor audio on Dstar System?
Aaron: I understand the frustration ... and hope that perseverance helps resolve this issue for you. You lost me on the trust server thing. That should have no bearing on my issues. OK - but: previously (and I've deleted the post) someone offered up a URL to a presentation that kind of touches on the point of having a repeater as well as user with the same callsign registered with the trust server. I'll plead nolo as I don't know enough about all this ... and I've sat through many a talk where Jim N5MIJ has said time and time again to forget whatever you think you know about (IP) networking in dealing with D-STAR. What seemed plausible in that presentation was the fact that the repeater will be allocated an IP in different space than the user. Don't know what situations may occur that would confuse a gateway from knowing the difference between a user and peer gateway system ... again, only a suggestion to remove the KE5KAF user call from the database as yet another idea in the troubleshooting efforts. Right now I am trying to get a club callsign so I can switch the repeater to a different callsign and use my KE5KAF callsign on the system instead. In the works... To be honest - if you go through the ARRL/VEC ... that takes ONE DAY. Get for people together ... they don't all have to be hams. Go to the ARRL web site and get the form. Fill it out. Fax it to them ... they usually process it in the same day and the following day you'll have an FCC systematically assigned club call / license. http://www.fcc.gov/wtb and click on the ULS link - do the lookup there ... Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Re: Help with poor audio on Dstar System?
Aaron KE5KAF (aka atms169) wrote: Upload speed was upgraded to a T1 line and download is 10mb using Cable. As written this doesn't make sense. Are you saying you have a cable provider internet connection that has upload speed of 1.54 mpbs and download of 10 mbps? Or you are using separate connections: a T1 for upload and cable for download? I pay for this specific bandwidth. Yes, tests were run inside the TWC network and outside. [ED: In trying to help diagnose your problem, people need as much detail as possible, such as what tests? Only bandwidth, or more detailed analysis.] I listened to your MP3 file and agree ... the audio is horrible. Based on the bandwidth you have indicated you've purchased ... the problem is likely not bandwidth, especially if this happens with one connection from your D-STAR gateway to another gateway or reflector system (as the amount of bandwidth used by a single stream is pretty light and would only be a small percentage of your subscription). As others have pointed out - and I concur ... you need to do some end-to-end tests from your gateway computer to another system somewhere on the Internet. Maybe another gateway that you've connected to that has exhibited the audio problem? You need to confirm that you can stream sufficient UDP packets to and from your D-STAR gateway system without excessive jitter or being dropped or delivered out of order. If you're on Time Warner Cable ... do some traceroutes from your D-STAR gateway to a number of other gateways that you've experienced this problem with. Note how your packets transverse TWC's network ... and what peers TWC is connected to. Do all traceroutes take the same route leaving the TWC network? (You can tell by the rDNS host names.) There is always the chance that the TWC network is fine ... but somewhere further out on to the Internet there is an issue - anywhere from the routers/switches that interconnect TWC to the 'net to any other provider's network. Here's a similar example: I have had at the home QTH the same SDSL connection for years. This is provided on a separate copper pair (without dialtone) by a CLEC (not the regular telephone company). SDSL is the same speed up and down; a business class connection. I used to have a Vonage device and it worked fine. But a few years ago the quality started degrading and it was traced back to the fact that the UDP packets to/from the Vonage connection on the net were not being reliably delivered. You may be having problems where UDP packets: - are occasionally being dropped, or - occasionally being delivered out of order, or - the time it takes to get from one end to another is varying widely. Ideally when you're doing an application like VoIP or D-STAR gateway interconnects you'll want to see minimum transit time of the UDP packets with no variance in the amount of time it takes to deliver and all packets received in the order sent. That's easy to do when you own/manage the entire network and a bit more difficult when you have to transverse multiple networks like on the Internet. Is your internet connection a residential grade or business grade service? With residential cable service often the activities of other people in the immediate area will affect your connection. Is everything on your D-STAR gateway system locked down, i.e., inaccessible from the Internet? This includes the HTTPS registration interface. If not - consider that ANY open port on your router could be probed by script kiddies on the Internet ... and you may be having occasional attacks attempting to find vulnerabilities on your gateway. (Beyond that - be sure that there's no unexpected activity on your gateway, e.g., ensure that it has not been compromised.) What are you running between the D-STAR gateway and the cable modem? (What kind of router or firewall?) Does your router or firewall device have the ability to tell you what hosts (logging) are being accessed for all traffic inbound and outbound? Look for unexpected traffic ... Do you have anything else at all that is running on this same internet connection? (Another system, IRLP node, etc. on the trusted side of the network?) If so - traffic from that/those systems may be affecting the D-STAR gateway stream(s). Do you have access to an EVDO (SprintPCS, VZW) or EDGE (T-Mobile, ATT) connection? If so - try to connect your D-STAR gateway to that to rule out the TWC internet connectivity. I also have a dongle and have experimented a bit with it as well. Its quality is very much subject to the Internet connection; I was recently at the EME conference in Florence, Italy where I had a WiFi connection in the hotel. Upload and download speeds exceeded 1.0 mpbs - but even at 01:00 local I had times where I got nothing over the dongle connection back to local systems in eastern US. And at other times very garbled. So even running the DSL Reports (or whatever) speed tests ... you don't get
RE: [dstar_digital] Help with poor audio on Dstar System?
Aaron Elekes KE5KAF wrote: No the KE5KAF is the main callsign for the repeater. I do not use that call when using Dstar. I am aware of the problems that would occur. OK - if you are using your VA6 callsign then ... maybe best to delete the user registration for KE5KAF so that only the repeater is known by the trust server and other gateways. I also did a little looking back in time ... and in June 2008 you were also posting in the thread First few key-ups garbled on Dstar Repeater Are you still having any heat problems? Do you have one rack unit of space between the repeater controller, band module and anything else? Gary K2ACY noted that he had a problem with an RP4000V module ... and swapping it out resolved his issue(s). In the event it is something in the controller or band module - have you recently emailed and/or spoken to ICOM support to see what their suggestion is? There seems to be a lot of systems that are being seeded out there from dealers -- maybe check a local ICOM dealer in your area and see if they have a module or controller they would be willing to lend you for further troubleshooting. Have you also given any thought to building up another gateway (different system, clean install) to see if that helps? Bob McCormick W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Re: Newbie Question
James: Welcome to D-STAR ... Just to clarify a bit on Steve NU5D's comments: For a mobile the IC2820 with GPS and DSTAR does OK. It is truly dual band, and dual receive. What the IC-2820 does not do is receive TWO D-STAR (digital) transmissions at the same time. For example - I can have in the first VFO a frequency in the 70cm band for DV (D-STAR) and in the second VFO an analog frequency ... and listen to both at the same time. But when you put a DV mode in simultaneously for both VFO's only one can be active at a time. I guess this is because of the architecture of the rig; there's a small UT-??? add-in module that provides the DV (D-STAR) functionality. I like the 2820 - so much so I may buy another for a base radio for the home QTH. I also have the IC-91AD. As with any small handheld my complaint is trying to read all the key buttons ... the only frustration I have with the HT is on high power it gets HOT! The 92 model came out with additional output levels - if I were to buy an HT today it would most certainly be the 92. 73 Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] National DSTAR simplex freq?
Fran W1FJM wrote: ... but Im not sure about 70cm. Someone here mentioned 446.00 446.000 MHz is the (US) national FM simplex frequency ... akin to 146.520 MHz on 2 metres ... so not a good idea to go there grin Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] National DSTAR� simplex freq?
The moderator wrote: [ED - I know the IC91AD and would venture other D-STAR radios can transmit clear down to the 430 MHz. range - you are not going to get anything national up in the 440 MHz. range, so you might look at 431 MHz., you could probably mark off a few 12.5 kHz. channels and have them work in large areas of the country. Thinking outside the box may be handy here.] I'm not sure I agree with the point that we sic may not get something in the 440 MHz range ... A good exercise may be to get the 70cm band plan from every coordinating body and see what would fit. Then get a buy-in from coordinators and get a unified message to the ARRL asking for an established D-STAR national frequency ... a la 146.520 MHz and 446.000 MHz. As for the 430 MHz frequencies ... sure, why not? I'm sure most people are just going to put it in a memory anyway - so what's in a frequency? (though 145.670 MHz *is* easy to remember!) I would strongly recommend staying away from anything between 431 and 433 MHz - that's where we do EME and weak signal work. And also be sensitive to the satellite sub band as well. In the New England plan we have a chunk of bandwidth 433-435 MHz and 438-439 MHz. Wonder if the 439.000 MHz frequency would work in all areas? Bob McCormick W1QA NB My previous posting indicating restricted/banned: please remember that in the US amateur operators are secondary in the entire 70cm band. On Cape Cod (Massachusetts) we have one of the PAVE PAWS radar installations (other remaining sites include W6 and KL7) which takes precedence over our operations on 70cm.
RE: [dstar_digital] Re: Limited access
Ed WA4YIH wrote: Since its inception, the Internet has never gone down. There are places where access has been unavailable, but the Internet has never gone down. Except for the last mile, most Internet connections are highly redundant. In the middle of Katrina, in the middle of the biggest California Earthquakes, the Internet has been available. (snip) Well worked, Ed. As we're building out a few D-STAR systems ... we're making sure that they are designed to be as reliable as possible - including the gateways and network connection. In what I've drawn up so far - one of the weakest points in our whole configuration is the D-STAR repeater controller itself! Its easy to configure redundancy in that last mile network connection ... and setup a reliable gateway including maybe even a backup system. We can sustain the failure of a band module - which would leave other modules available. But if we lose the controller itself ... ugh! (Sorry if this thread is getting a bit off-topic ...) Bob W1QA [Assistant Moderator - This is on topic.]
RE: [dstar_digital] Re: Amplifiers for DStar repeater use
Nate WY0X was recently contemplating bars: It's kinda like this... do I care how many bars of signal strength my digital cell phone is showing, or do I only care if I can make a call? Users of digital systems like cell phones obviously THINK bars are important (thus ATT's marketing campaign of more bars, more places), but in reality we as trained *digital* radio operators know it makes little or no difference until we cross the drop-out threshold completely. When designing digital systems, unlike analog which degrades for a longer slope at the fringes -- we can do better than to design for bars. There's a pet peeve of mine! The meaningless nature of bars. And for sure - the marketing folks could easily ask the vendors of products to code the display of bars in a log type fashion that would skew the more bars scenario ... I wouldn't put it past them. Luckily I have a Blackberry ... and Blackberry devices can display the signal level in dBm ... hold down the moon like key and press NMLL ... the bars display will change to digits. (Reads 256 with no signal otherwise -dBm.) Interestingly my 8700g (GSM) Blackberry can routinely make calls when the signal is showing -105 and maybe as low as -110. That's also about the point where it goes from some signal to no signal ... In being a lot more active now with D-STAR locally ... I found it strange the other day switching to analog for a couple of hour drive. Didn't know how much I enjoyed the quality of the digital system; the noise and other impairments heard listening to folks on a wide area FM system ... are non-existent with the D-STAR systems I use. That's not to say D-STAR doesn't have its quality issues; I guess there should be a new term coined in the ham lexicon ... 'round these parts folks say you've gone all R2D2 or you sound like R2D2. Of course, whilst mobile, I have no real way to know whether someone sounding R2D2 is the quality of their signals reaching the repeater receiver ... or the transmissions from the repeater reaching my mobile. Too bad the repeater RX (heck, all D-STAR receivers) couldn't display (and be able to log) what not only the receive signal strength is ... but also maybe the BER. Lastly - even though things are great with the IC-2820 in the car ... I have given thought to placing another antenna on the vehicle and enabling the diversity functionality. Does anyone have any real world experience with this? Is the benefit worth the effort? Bob W1QA
RE: [dstar_digital] Eliminating undesired Yahoo! text appended to postings
Ed WA4YIH wrote: No. Yahoo has to make their money somehow. Advertising is their forte. Randy KF0X wrote: Maybe I am missing something here or did not see it in a previous post, but the solution is to simply join Yahoo. It is so amazingly simple, I certainly must be missing something here. If I did miss something, my apologies. [Moderator: If you are receiving this list via text email, it can seem like a lot extra on the end, but it is what it is...] Interestingly - the last few messages that have come through on this list are now a lot less bloated and are large grin in text versus HTML format - from the headers in recent messages: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII They used to come through as: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=NGrEjRhkryGLwebsECen-1ZK96ghFxjUACn3nn6 (of course the boundary would be different for each part in each message). I don't know if this was a change someone made on my behalf or if for the entire list; either way thanks for the effort. As for joining Yahoo! - or more accurately getting a Yahoo! ID or account ... I'd prefer not to. I see no reason to provide a name, birth date, QTH and other info to Yahoo! ... or having Yahoo! dumping cookies on my system and monitoring my activities ... and I don't want a yahoo.com email address. Snippets from the Yahoo! Privacy Policy at: http://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/details.html When you register with Yahoo! and sign in to our services, you are not anonymous to us. Yahoo! uses web beacons to access Yahoo! cookies inside and outside our network of web sites and in connection with Yahoo! products and services. http://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/webbeacons/ Ed's comment is on the money - but only part of it. Yahoo! makes their money in areas beyond just serving up ads off of their web sites ... and some of this is noted in the aforementioned links I cited above. Sorry for getting off topic - having made (like many of you) a major investment in D-STAR infrastructure I want to learn and grow with the rest of the community. My original request was for some assistance in reducing the size of messages received on these Yahoo! (supported?!) lists ... which also helps because when you are searching your own archive you don't get hits on all the (unrelated) stuff appended to postings by Yahoo! Whatever was changed ... I'm quite happy with that - it should do. Bob McCormick W1QA
