RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR

[Ted Wrobel]

Actually the DVSI 2020 chip is about $20 in quantity one from DVSI. Of
course there are a few others chips and a little design required.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Donald James
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:01
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR


  


<<< $30 DSTAR CODEX chip >>> ??? Where does that price come from?

Donald ~ N2VU

 

 

A Wouxun D-Star radio for $200 WOW waitress I'll have what he's having HI HI
!

 Ted N8ZSA

In a message dated 9/6/2010 10:20:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
khuff...@atlanticbb.net writes:

  

At the Huntsville Ham Fest, the ALA. dealer was selling them for $129 plus
tax.

At the Shelby/Dallas Ham Fest, one dealer was selling the UVD2 for $107 plus
tax, and another NC dealer was selling the UVd1 for $105 plus tax.

Competition is good.

I hope Wouxun puts the $30 DSTAR CODEX chip in an HT and sells a DSTAR HT
for $200. 

Kent

KQ4KK

(who did not check FCC "stickers")

Switch to:
 Text-Only,
 Daily Digest .

Unsubscribe .   Terms of Use

.

 
 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?

[Ted Wrobel]

There are likely two possible areas for improvement and one where
improvement is likely impossible.
 
Some radios seem to have better transmit audio than others. Many people find
the IC-2200 very good while many people find the ID-880 very bad.
Possible the receive audio could also be improved by some additional audio
processing.
 
Much of the "poor" quality in DStar can be attributed to the AMBE Vocoder.
This is a very complex algorythm that converts a high bit-rate voice data
stream into a very low bit-rate data stream. By its very nature this is a
lossy process. Removing bits must reduce the information content of the
data. AMBE attempts to maximize the bit-rate while maintaining 'acceptable'
audio quality. Some people may find the resulting sound unacceptable. Much
like the battles over vinyl vd CD vs MP3 and tubes vs solid state in the
music world, some ears are very sensitive to the aural content while others
are quite insensitive.
 
In a search to find a better sound for my 880, I contacted Bob, AB5N, who
sells upgrades to a vatiety on ham microphones hoping he could provide a
solution. below is his response. I hope it helps explain the problem.
 
73,
Ted
 
W1GRI
 
Ted-

We have a conundrum here. Most people buy the ID-880H to use it on D-Star.

Otherwise they would just buy a less-expensive rig.

D-Star is a extremely compressed digital voice mode. They don't want to
digitize any audio that isn't
directly responsible for intelligibility. That passband is 300-3000... the
old telephone response.
Any audio that is outside that range would just be "wasting bits" encoding
sound that does not
help you understand what is being said. So, the mic audio is tailored
narrowly to that passband
for D-Star in the radio. Problem is, on FM, it sounds light at the bottom.
If it was me, I would have had separate mic EQ circuits switched in for each
mode.

Thus, if we change the mic response curve to un-do what the mic pre-amp EQ's
are doing, D-Star will go down the drain. Digital distortion is horrible.
I've tried this experiment with my ID-800.
I had to remove the new element and go stock again.

As well, Icom engineers have always felt that their radios should have
"communications-grade audio". None of their FM radios sound as pleasing as
say a Yaesu FM mobile (totally analog radios). When you go to an Icom like a
IC-7000, it is like comparing a vinyl record with a MP3.

So, for radios that use the 133 or 131 - which do not have D-Star, indeed my
mic element gives a very nice improvement. 

Uh oh... major storm here...tornado warnings.. I better unplug the router
and laptop.

Hope that clears it up... I wish I could help! 

Bob-AB5N
 
 

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of n2gyn
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 14:27
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?


  

Thank you all for you reply and comments.
Let me make myself clearer. 
I would like to see the audio quality of D-Star be improved. To MY ears'
everyone sound like a robot. I thought this was due to the low bit rate. I
am NOT impressed with the digital voice mode. I want to hear a more natural
sounding voice. My telephone sounds better.
How could this be achieved if not by bit rate?
John


--- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ted Wrobel"  wrote:
>
> Hi John,
> 
> Not quite sure what you are thinking, but here is a brief overview of the
> DStar data stream.
> 
> The input to / output from the data processing 'module' of the radio is a
> 9600 Baud stream - which equates to roughly 960 eight bit characters per
> second.
> 
> The logic of the system digitizes the voice in and passes it to the AMBE
> Vocoder that compresses the data stream - a lot.
> 
> It is the compresion by the Vocoder that is both the strength and weakness
> of DStar. The compression makes a low data rate (and thus low bandwidth)
> possible, but it also means that the re-constituted voice is an
> approximation of the voice input. Generally the reconstructed voice is
> pretty good, and given the bandwidth it is really quite remarkable.
> 
> In any case, the baud rate of the system is fixed and cannot be modified
at
> any stage of the process without making the resulting stream
unrecognizable
> to other DStar systems.
> 
> Note that the data rate over the internet can be much higher, but the
chain
> from repeater controller to / from the radio is fixed for DV comms at
9600.
> 
> 
> 73
> Ted
> W1GRI
> 
> _ 
> 
> From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On Behalf Of n2gyn
> 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate?

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi John,
 
Not quite sure what you are thinking, but here is a brief overview of the
DStar data stream.
 
The input to / output from the data processing 'module' of the radio is a
9600 Baud stream - which equates to roughly 960 eight bit characters per
second.
 
The logic of the system digitizes the voice in and passes it to the AMBE
Vocoder that compresses the data stream - a lot.
 
It is the compresion by the Vocoder that is both the strength and weakness
of DStar. The compression makes a low data rate (and thus low bandwidth)
possible, but it also means that the re-constituted voice is an
approximation of the voice input. Generally the reconstructed voice is
pretty good, and given the bandwidth it is really quite remarkable.
 
In any case, the baud rate of the system is fixed and cannot be modified at
any stage of the process without making the resulting stream unrecognizable
to other DStar systems.
 
Note that the data rate over the internet can be much higher, but the chain
from repeater controller to / from the radio is fixed for DV comms at 9600.


73
Ted
W1GRI
 
  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of n2gyn
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 16:54
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate?


  

Most radios are sent to 8bit. Can all radio's bit rate be changed?
I believe it is the LOW bit rate that lowers the quality of d-star's audio.
Is there a sub menu in the radio's. Also can the repeater's rate be change
to a higher rate?
John

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi,
 
When a repeater is linked to a reflector an internet connection is made and
the local repeater will transmit over the air any data sent from the
reflector. The repeater will send and data stream it hears to the reflector
for retrnasmission by any other linked repeaters.
 
The courtesy of announcing that you intend to link or unlink a repeater
advises any other reperater users that the change is comming (unless they
object, of course). This avoids disrupting any others comms that may be in
progress at that time. Of course if you have listened a bit before taking
any action you would likely hear any comms in progress.
 
Unlinking is the only direction that can disrupt comms - a pair of hams
might be conversing thru the link. Linking only "adds repeaters", and the
only issue is the courtesy of letting others know that they might now speak
to a much larger audience.
 
In practice most (all?) repeaters announce the link / unlink action so folks
are indeed notified. On the link however the repeater does not announce what
reflector is being linked.
 
The link / unlink process is effectively instantaneous - any delay is only
latency over the internet. Very unlikely you could beat the link or unlink
process.
 
Hope this helps,
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of kc9ony
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 09:56
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions


  

Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking
into one of the popular reflectors. We didn't hear anything, so my
buddy called CQ. I seem to think I then heard a partial conversation
and then acknowledgement of my buddy's callsign. That brought to 
mind a few questions:

How long does it take for the repeater to connect to the reflector?

How long should one wait before trying to initiate a call?
So far, in the few times we have done it, no one has yelled at
us for interrupting or causing any disruption of data, if that did 
occur. I just don't want to step on any toes if we are possibly
not waiting or listening for a long enough time period.

When unlinking, is it necessary to announce to the reflector that you
are unlinking? 

If I want to unlink and not interrupt a conversation, can I just do it?

Will they hear a beep and my callsign or does this disrupt the data in
any way or just see my callsign with no audio?

Just wondering if there is a write up on common courtesy and protocol
for D-Star? I know that on the Calculator page, they say to announce
your intentions. Obviously, if you are not near a computer or have
access to the internet, you can't see how busy or how many things are
connected to a repeater or reflector.

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Please help me support D-Star ...

[Ted Wrobel]

At the risk of drawing this into a flame war, it is my opinion that call
sign routing is an idea whose time will never come in a public network. It
suffers a fatal flaw in that is is entirely ignorant of remote repeater
activity and thus prohibits any attemp at etiquette.
 
Since there is no way to know even what repeater you are being directed to,
and that there is no way to monitor that repeater even if you did, there is
no way to be polite with call sign routing.
 
The only hope is that the repeater will ignore a message if it is busy at
some instant - and I'm not convinced that it does.
 
Call sign routing appears to me much akin to the old party-line telephone
system with the exception that no one can tell when the line is busy.
 
Frankly, Dplus is a far superior solution to remote contacts (In my opinon,
of course).
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Declan Mc Glone
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:21
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Please help me support D-Star ...


  


I think the issue there is simply that the majority of people just don’t do
Callsign Routing, and depend on DPlus routing instead on the K5TIT network.
So while this is a good technical solution, the knowledge and ability to do
it seems to be sliding away.  I suspect its not something that newcomers pay
a lot of attention to either. It’s a shame really, but having the ability to
reduce the “lag” in synchronising between callsigns as they move from
Repeater to Repeater is a valuable one. It just feels like its arrived too
late. If this was around near the beginning of the WW expansion of the
D-Star network, perhaps we wouldn’t have needed DPlus. Or perhaps DPlus and
Reflectors would have taken a different direction. So the ability to
Callsign Route and exchange information across Networks on a Routing basis
is a very positive development, but its just the lack of routing that’s
probably having the biggest impact on it. Who knows, but I also like the
Callsign Squelch feature in the radios. And again, because people don’t
route directly, or callsign route, it’s a feature rendered useless in the
radios.

Difficult to see how you increase uptake, DPlus and the Reflectors just seem
to be a lot easier in comparison to Direct Routing. I do accept that there
may be areas of the world where this might be the preferred way of doing
things, but none spring to mind as I write this, notwithstanding those who
currently have it installed on their repeaters.

Dex

M0TMX

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of john_ke5c
Sent: 30 July 2010 15:44
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Please help me support D-Star ...

  

> Just waiting for the "Open vs Closed" debate to start (again!) 

For callsign routing there wouldn't have to be a debate if folks would
utilize ircddb:

http://db0fhn.

efi.fh-nuernberg.de/doku.php?id=projects:dstar:ircddb

Only a handful of gateways on all systems have installed it, however:

http://ircddb.  net/

Maybe it's a start.

73--John

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Help program D- star Ic- 880h

[Ted Wrobel]

As you will see in the manual the 880 can use either the OPC-478 or
OPC-1529R cables. 
If you search the internet you can easily find the pinout for these serial
cables and make your own if cost is a real issue.
The cable is a very simple 3-wire hookup.
Either cable will work with many USB to SERIAL adaptors. Some people have
problems with the adaptors, but they are pretty cheap & I have used several
without problem.
You can buy a copy of the 478 cable on Ebay for about $7 delivered - pretty
cheap. They work fine.
The USB version runs around $12 delivered - but I have not tried these
cables.
 
The OPC-1529R is much more expensive - for reasons I can't understand.
Demand maybe. However, it is the one you need if you want to to send data
thru the radio.
 
Anyway, I would get the 478 to start, and plan to build the 1579 yourself
later - total parts cost is about $5..
 
73
Ted
W1GRI
 
 
 
 
 

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of cookie
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 00:14
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Help program D- star Ic- 880h


  

Just purchased Ic- 880h Having problem programing the unit. Need help. Plan
on buying usb cable middle this week. Download the software to my computer. 

Last Saturday called the candy store in Beer City. Told have usb cable used
for Yaesu FT 60R . ASk the staff @aes if could used the yaesu usb cable .
Answer was no.

Hpe to hr de someone will help me . tnx 

Richard Lyons wd9...@wi.rr.com  
skype Id:lyons209

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi Donald,
 
Hope you find some new converts soon! One of our local hams (W1AGW) really
got hooked on Dstar and has been the real leader in our area. Art bought a
couple of 2200H radios at good prices and has been loaning them to hams in
the area. That is what got me hooked as well as several others. Really built
up the local Dstar community.
Not suggesting you should / can do this, but it is an idea.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Donald James
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 20:54
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!


  


Ted, I'm the ONLY one for hours who has a D-Star radio - really! So my only
access to D-Star is via my DVAP. The hot-spot/repeater is for my own
extended reach if you know what I mean.

 

Donald ~ N2VU

 

 

-Original Message-
From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ted Wrobel
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:15 PM
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

 

  

Donald,

 

Maybe you don't need a repeater right away. Try simplex with your fellow
Dstar hams. I've been working to promote simplex activity by having a
simplex 'event' the second sunday of each month. We plan to kick this off on
Aug 8,2010.

 

 

See   www.dstar-. <http://www.dstar-.org> org   for more info on the
Second Sunday Simplex Society

 

73

Ted

W1GRI

 

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Donald James
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 16:37
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

  

Hi Fran, I'm celebrating D-Star, its just that I didn't anticipate the
reactiosn I got from locals about it, saying its just a fad, over-priced for
nothing! 

 

Whatever, I'm here and happy to be part of this group!!

 

Donald ~ N2VU

 

 

-Original Message-
From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Francis Miele
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:50 PM
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

 

  

don't get discouraged in NY. I hear there may be a hotspot or two going in.
Maybe the person planning that can shed some light here on the forum

--
Fran. W1FJM

 


  _  


From: Donald James mailto:studio...@earthlink.net>
.net>
To: dstar_digital@ <mailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, July 14, 2010 4:40:08 PM
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

  

Bill,

 

Lucky you! I envey you in that it sounds like your in a great community for
a HAM! Unfortunatly where I am in north central New York I've given up on
talking about it because its politly being shot down by most of the gys
here. I get my radio tomorrow and I cant wait, I'll just keep the pleasure
to myself while I talk to friends everywhere else.

 

Best,

 

Donald ~ N2VU

  

 

 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

[Ted Wrobel]

Donald,
 
Maybe you don't need a repeater right away. Try simplex with your fellow
Dstar hams. I've been working to promote simplex activity by having a
simplex 'event' the second sunday of each month. We plan to kick this off on
Aug 8,2010.
 
 
See   www.dstar-.org   for more info on the Second Sunday Simplex
Society
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Donald James
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 16:37
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!


  


Hi Fran, I'm celebrating D-Star, its just that I didn't anticipate the
reactiosn I got from locals about it, saying its just a fad, over-priced for
nothing! 

 

Whatever, I'm here and happy to be part of this group!!

 

Donald ~ N2VU

 

 

-Original Message-
From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Francis Miele
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:50 PM
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

 

  

don't get discouraged in NY. I hear there may be a hotspot or two going in.
Maybe the person planning that can shed some light here on the forum

--
Fran. W1FJM

 


  _  


From: Donald James mailto:studio...@earthlink.net>
.net>
To: dstar_digital@  yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, July 14, 2010 4:40:08 PM
Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] AZ commited to D-star!

  

Bill,

 

Lucky you! I envey you in that it sounds like your in a great community for
a HAM! Unfortunatly where I am in north central New York I've given up on
talking about it because its politly being shot down by most of the gys
here. I get my radio tomorrow and I cant wait, I'll just keep the pleasure
to myself while I talk to friends everywhere else.

 

Best,

 

Donald ~ N2VU

  

 

 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D Star Contest

[Ted Wrobel]

You will have to find a repeater that does not run the DPlus software as
that is prohibited by Icom. 
 
Also, no reflectors can be used. I think this will be a very skimpy contest.
Simplex mostly.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of grwin
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 16:26
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D Star Contest


  


There is a D Star Contest taking place over this week but I have heard no
one and no one has replied to calls. I don't want to go on to 001C in case
the bazookas from across the Atlantic are lined up on me!! So any
suggestions please for finding Reflectors/Repeaters where some contest
activity would be appropriate? 
Thanks Graham

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi Anthony,
 
Maybe I'm a little dense, but I don't see the connection between codec2 and
cost. At around $20 for a complete, working, proven hardware solution using
an apparently quite efficient codec algorythm, it is hard to see where the
cost savings would come from.
 
Let's assume you could replace the DVSI codec chip with a $5 generic
microprocessor and free software. You would reduce the manufacturing cost by
a maximum of $15, assuming all the interface required was free. That might
reduce the cost of an ID-880 from about $495 to maybe $475. Hardly
market-shattering news.
 
We don't hear anyone trying to build 'low cost', 'open design' RF amplifier
chips even though many are priced way above $20. Perhaps more comparable, we
don't see hams trying to invent an 'open' microprocessor instruction set to
escape the evil monopoly of folks like Intel, AMD, and Sun. 
 
In truth, the DVSI chip is a bargain considering the relatively small market
over which to amortise engineering and chip fab costs.
 
It seems to me that the uproar over the proprietary codec in DStar is really
greatly overblown. Someone found a way to piggyback on a successful codec
manufacturers existing technology to get a really low cost chip that hams
can use. Let's say thanks and then go to work on more and better ways to use
the chip we have - like the DVDongle and other boards. There is plenty of
space for experimentation and improvement in digital voice without needing
another codec.
 
Finally, if we had another codec, it would take about a month for a Codec3
crowd to organize to combat both DVSI and Codec2.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of a cutler22
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 09:28
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder


  


>From the sounds of it - this "Open Source DSTAR codec" is probably runner up
to "DSTAR 2.0", which would indeed be a fork situation of the protocol.
However, it would probably be called something different to avoid confusion.

ICOM's "flavor" of DSTAR is the *only* flavor of DSTAR out there- no other
major manufacturer has touched DSTAR. Even the Kenwood D-STAR radio is a
rebranded ICOM radio

Of course, market share for DSTAR is ever growing, not declining and it
won't go away anytime soon. However, Codec2 sounds like the better
market-driven bottom-up protocol for next-generation Digital Voice that
could have a bigger market share than ICOM's DSTAR.

-73 de Anthony, KE7HQY

  _  

From: Tony Langdon 
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 2:20:04 AM
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder

  

At 05:34 PM 6/7/2010, you wrote:

>And that D-STAR protocol definition is defined by the JARL...
>
>How much of a prospect is it the JARL would be willing to update the 
>DSTAR protocol with an open source vocoder if it were competitive to AMBE?

Assuming the JARL were open (pun not intended!) to the idea. The 
rest of this message deals with the case where the JARL to decide to 
amend the D-STAR protocol (if they don't, then we would be dealing 
with a fork instead).

The biggest challenge will be not breaking gear that's in the 
field. The DV Dongle is the easiest case, because the new (open) 
codec can simply be added to DVTool, and run entirely in software 
when needed, with the dongle only being used to encode/decode an AMBE
stream.

The Icom radios would require a series of replacement boards for 
their existing DV boards, to use the new codec, otherwise you're 
going to have a bunch of users who will find D-STAR suddenly becomes 
hit and miss. Also, the spec would need to be updated to include 
notifying the remote end which codec is in use, somewhere in the 
protocol, since this can no longer be assumed. There could be an 
opportunity in the new add-on board to have field programmable 
components on board, so any further enhancements to the codec/DSP can 
be downloaded and installed.

The above is the minimum that would have to be done. There might be 
other unintended consequences that need to be dealt with (I can see 
the possibility for all sorts of "corner cases").
>---
>Codec2 is in at least partial code form so far: 
>
com/ucasterisk/codec2.html>http://www.rowetel.
 com/ucasterisk/codec2.html

Looks promising. Where I see this gaining traction first is in HF 
digital voice experimentation, which hit a major speed bump when 
patent issues became apparent. However, codec2 will need to get into 
the 1200bps and below range to be really effective in this application.

>It seems to be competitive in the current market, a third-party 
>daughter board similar to UT-118 would have to be developed that had 
>dual AMBE/Codec2 capability, and sold at-cost to undercut the 
>current UT-118 co

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] I would like to see

[Ted Wrobel]

The 92AD software does this. Rather than being a file-edit / upload,download
form of program it actually controls the radio interactively. Very nice to
use as a monitor while running a net too.
 
Not sure about the 2820, but the id-880 does not put out much (like none)
info at the data port unless there is also a data payload, and that payload
does not include the Icom 'message' data. So, you can see most info if there
is GPS data or some other data, like DRATS. However normal voice comms does
not output anything. (As far as I can see with serial port monitoring)
 
What does intrigue me is tapping the remote control head connector (while
head is attached). Looks like you should be able to watch comms between the
radio and the head. I assume that will include packet header info that
displays on the screen. What isn't clear is if that data is in some standard
code set like ASCII and if the serial stream is some industry standard
format of bit rate, start/stop and parity.
 
Should find some time next week to start snooping the connector.  Since the
head talks/listens via a serial stream to the radio some reverse engineering
MIGHT allow one to also control the radio.
 
I assume the 2820 is likely similar to the 880, but I'm really only
guessing. Maybe someone could do a port monitor on the data line and see
what it says.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of bosshardss
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 10:05
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] I would like to see


  

Icom offer a low cost adapter to facilitate full PC control of their DSTAR
Radios. Imagine changing the UR or Repeater settings in an ID800 on the run.
Or actually being able to SEE the display on a 2820 in the car in daylight.
Having a shopping list stored in your PC that would use alpha tags for the
different fields and let you mix and match UR, RPT1, RPT2 quick and easy.
Also since there are more and more repeaters this would facilitate using the
same box of UR's and callsigns with different repeater frequencies (and
could even automatically add the band character, A, B, C or G). 

If the price is right, Icom would have an instant market for 12,800 copies
and provided the protocol to communicate with their radios were public, a
scad of software developers could offer Icom Dstar Compatible user interface
software. 

Some of the small laptops with a linux operating system are pretty
reasonable in cost for a GUI interface.

Maybe I am just dreaming, but it seems it is more and more difficult to find
anyone able to reply to a call with anything beyond CQCQCQ. (Except the JA
folks who don't have reflectors). Making the radio more user friendly would
be a giant step in the right direction and promote more use and more product
$ales.

steve 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: 145.67 D-STAR simplex (was: DStar Nets)

[Ted Wrobel]

Seems like the freq of choice up here in Rhode Island. Has been for a while.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jcoup...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 09:57
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: 145.67 D-STAR simplex (was: DStar Nets)


  


So as we approach field day this year, can we at least get a consensus among
those who read this group that 145.67 will be the D-STAR Fx of choice for
FD??
 
 
Jack Coupe
WA3BXH
President, Philadelphia Digital Radio Association, K3PDR repeater system

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Honest questions .....

[Ted Wrobel]

Nate,
 
Take a deep breath, climb down off your high horse and find something else
to do! You critical, repetitive comments add nothing to the group. 
 
If you dislike D-Star, or wish it was something else, why don't you go and
create that something else?
 
It is what it is, and it will always be what it is. No criticism by you will
ever change anything about it. Why waste your time and ours with this
diatribe?
 
Please stop
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 17:01
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Honest questions .


  

On 5/17/2010 1:22 PM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: 


  

Nope, they aren't readily available for you to read. Did you see that
written anywhere in what I said? Did you see me publish a URL to it? 


That's all I asked.  Thank you for confirming that the answer is no, and
that D-STAR development is as closed as any other proprietary product out
there.

You added a lot of other information and ad-hominem attacks again, that had
nothing to do with the question being posed, as usual, Ed.  They're not even
worthy of a reply.  

Your assumptions that I didn't know about the other products, was wrong, as
usual.

Nate WY0X

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] No DSTAR in South Carolina or Georgia?

[Ted Wrobel]

Carl,
 
A friend just updated his 92-AD with all known DStar repeaters. I have the
.icf file if you can use it. Alternatively I can do exports for each bank
and create .csv files. I think they can be inported into any of the ICOM
radios. (i've moved stuff between 2200, 880, 92 without much effort)
 
What radio do you use?
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Carl W8KRF
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 14:36
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] No DSTAR in South Carolina or Georgia?


  

I am also concerned about this.  I just ordered the latest TravelPlus for
Repeaters which hasn't been received yet and it sounds to me that it will
not contain D-STAR repeater listings.  That was the only reason I wanted it
since I am now active on D-STAR.  I know I can go to various websites and
get the info which I have to manually enter the data rather than import it.
I think the League missed here.  In my opinion, they need to become more
involved with D-STAR; not only listings but looking into new bandplans that
will include them.  D-STAR is here to stay. Embrace it.

This may be something everyone of us involved with DV communication needs to
make known to them at Dayton.  Stop by their booth and let make them aware
of this.  I will.

73,

Carl W8KRF

Francis Miele wrote: 


  

according to dstarusers.org http://www.dstaruse

rs.org/repeaters.php?repeatersort=5  there a plenty


Fran, W1FJM


On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kent Hufford mailto:khuff...@atlanticbb.net> .net> wrote:


  



I just bought my new 2010-2011 ARRL Repeater Directory, even the "large
print" version.

 

And I could not find any listings for DSTAR repeaters in South Carolina, and
only one 1200mhz DSTAR repeater for all of Georgia.

 

You would have thought Georgia would have more listings?

 

Kent

KQ4KK

 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DSTAR communication

[Ted Wrobel]

Hello James,
 
Well, as someone who runs a DStar net I would offer a couple of comments.
 
First, I assume that since the net covers many miles it must be on a
reflector. If you don't want to be connected to that reflector you might be
able to unlink the local repeater from that reflector. The ability for
individual ops to link/unlink is up to the repeater administrator, but many
allow users to switch linking. There are lots of reflectors you could link
to, and most are pretty open.
 
When you say 'keying the entire world' you're not really accurate. You are
keying on all the repeaters connected to that reflector. Might be a lot of
stations, but it ian't he world.
 
Second, why don't you jump into the net? Unless it is one of the really
large nets (Like Connies in Springfield MO) you can probably get in pretty
quickly. We always ask for new stations every few minutes and are always
glad for anyone who comes aboard.
 
I haven't seen anyone intentionally rude on any D-Star activity, but maybe
I'm just lucky.
 
Anyway, hope you join in and play with the rest of us.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of James Earl Wells
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 20:37
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DSTAR communication


  


Wow,
 
I do not know where you live but I thought that where I live was the only
place that people were rude on D-Star. I think some do not or wish not to
realize that when you key up on D-Star you are keying up on the entire
world.
Now I am not against nets. I love the ones we have here on 2 meter and 70
cm. However there is someone that runs a net once a week in (well not really
in my local area) an area a few hundred miles from here on D-Star. It can
last around an hour or more and personally I find it annoying. Plus it is at
time when I would rather try to do some D-Star work in other countries. 
Now I know that this is all part of ham but to me since D-Star is like
keying a Radio in every home in the world there should be more people acting
like ham radio people should act. Between turns there should be a time to
allow others to jump in. I thought that was the idea. Getting more people
together. 
Well that is my opinion and I stand by it. I am not an old timer but
everyone that I know and who has influenced me into this hobby are old
timers and they teach respect for the other operators and letting everyone
have a go on the mic. 
Hope that I don't make anyone mad but then if I do then maybe they need to
re-read the the General Course.
I love this hobby and would hate to see someone(s) ruining the Hobby that I
enjoy. I am disabled and between the Ham and this computer they are my
connections to the outside world and I have lots of friends and have lots of
teachers who have helped me learn to build things and learn to be a
considerate Ham Operator. 
I am now off my soap box.
 
Be Kind.. Let Others have a Chance at the Ham Line.
 
James
KD0AJZ

- Original Message - 
From: Catrina   White 
To: dstar_digital@  yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DSTAR communication

  




I am frequently using a repeater where there is NO ACTIVITY when I turn on
the radio, listen for a few minutes, put on my reading glasses to see if
anything is scrolling on the bottom of my IC 91ad, have it turned to high
pwer, and use my BIG mobile antenna. It works for the most part. Is it jsut
the fac tthat others are being rude, and just keying up when I am trying to
transmit? I ask about my signal and am told that everything is fine on my
end.

I give up!!
What else is there to do? are people really that rude that they will jsut
key up and not check to see if anyone is transmitting? in DSTAR, eveyone
gets knocked off, not just the big guy.
Couldnt someone fix that? It is obviously a HUGE GLITCH!
 

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DV dongle QSO ham radio?

[Ted Wrobel]

All this reminds me of the discussion of remote-operated HF stations and the
question of contest credits. Is it fair for two hams in Connecticut to
'compete' for DX awards if one of them is operating a remote station in the
Rocky Mountains?

Never heard a good solution to the situation and don't recall that the
contesting world ever came up with a reasonable guideline.

Seems to me that there are two basic groups of hams. Those that like to talk
to other people (or just listen to them chat)  and those who enjoy the
challenge of making many, difficult contacts to distant places. 

Two very different faces of the hobby but neither superior in my opinion.
The talk crowd will like the dongles, the contest crowd won't. Who cares?


73
Ted
W1GRI

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Alternative D-STAR Equipment (Was: Looking for DSTAR MAP)

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi Folks,
 
No it isn't 'true'. The codec used is the one defined by the D-STAR spec. It
is the DVSI AMBE codec and is, I am told, the same as that used in P25
systems.
 
There are several non-Icom projects, like the DVDongle and the several 'non
icom' repeater stacks running today. With NO Icom gear at all, no Icom
intellectual property infringement. A non-Icom homebrew transceiver has been
built and tested. It has been widely reported, but is not a 'useable' radio.
It was a 'wonder if we could' project.
 
The only Icom specific parts are the things like the message field that is
simply where Icom chose to put some data into the defined packet.
 
Anyone who wants to can make a D-Star radio that would compete and coexist
with the Icom gear.
 
I strongly suspect it is simply a matter of perceived market size. If it
proves big enough others will jump in.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI
 

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of john_ke5c
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 13:47
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Alternative D-STAR Equipment (Was: Looking for
DSTAR MAP)


  

> Chris Fowler wrote:
>
> > Has ICOM extended the spec so that Yaesu can not make a compliant radio?
Yes, the codec is locked down but I don't see what would prevent Alinco from
making a HT that can talk to an ICOM repeater.
> >
> John D. Hays wrote:
> Anyone can make a D-STAR air protocol compliant radio. If it does the air
protocol correctly it should work just fine with both Icom repeaters and the
other hardware and software approaches mentioned up thread.

True, but perhaps those who could manufacture "D-STAR compliant" (or perhaps
just "DVAR") radios aren't motivated to do so if they can't compete in and
affect characteristics of the infrasturcture market - repeaters,
controllers, etc.? It's still not an open mode like the others - AM, CW,
SSB, FM, PSK, etc.

73--John

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-88O

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi All,
 
Didn't notice this with the ID-880, but with the IC-2200 the software does
not provide any DV settings until it has "read" the radio.
 
If it reads a 2200 it modified the windows registry to indicate that radio.
The registry can be modified (one entry) to make the software think it is
dealing with an IC-2200.
 
I suspect the ID-880 software does the same thing.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 18:07
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-88O


  

On 3/15/2010 3:55 PM, Barry Wilson wrote: 


  

Nate,

We tried programming the IC-880 we received through the NCR Grant and the
software doesn't give the option to set DV mode in its drop down menu. Have
you heard of this problem? Perhaps it will appear after connecting the
Software to the radio. Currently only shows AM FM FM-N WFM I believe but no
DV

Barry


Did you mean to send this to the list?

Never touched an 880 before.  I'm sure someone here on the list can comment,
though.

Nate WY0X

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network, what to do?

[Ted Wrobel]

You can register anywhere, does not have to be the same repeater.
 
Just locate another place to register.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of enjoyit2day
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 10:30
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network,
what to do?


  


Suffixed call signs are not supported and for a very good reason. Only one
licensed operator can talk on one radio at a time. There is no reason to
have suffixes. If you get multiple radios you program your call sign into
those radios. The call sign is for you, not the radio. This does not work
like APRS. If you are having difficulty contact me directly and I will see
what I can do to help.

RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] 2200H vs 880

[Ted Wrobel]

Hi Don,
 
For what it's worth I got started on DStar with a 2200H loaner. Then I
bought the 880. 
 
The difference in operating is significant (at least to me). The display is
much better. On the 2200 you do not see the sending station info text like
callsign. Seems like a small thing, but I really would miss it. 
 
I am net control for a local dstar net and we have used 'silent checkin' a
few times. Stations just key for a few seconds and net control can copy
their call from the display. Can't do that with the 2200.
 
Don't know your qth, but in southern Califoria it appears that all the DStar
repeaters are on the 440 band - no frequency slots available on 2 meters.
This will likely appear in other regions as well.
 
So, I would say go with the 880.
 
I will add that a friend that runs our local dstar repeater tried the 880
and did not like it. He bought another 2820 instead, although for much more
money.
 
73
Ted
W1GRI

  _  

From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Don Bowen
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:24
To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] 2200H vs 880


  

I am trying to decide between the Icom 2200H or the Icom 880. The 2200 
is a single band and needs the digital board for D-Star. The 880 is a 
dual band and comes D-Star ready. The 2200 goes for around $150 and the 
digital board is about $200 for a total under $400 while the 880 goes 
for around $500.

My current thoughts are to get the 2200 now and the digital board later 
when funds are available.

Thoughts, comments?

-- 
Don Bowen KI6DIU
http://www.braingar

age.com/Dons/Travels/journal/Journal.html