[e-gold-list] Pay By Gold
There are now 150 verified users on the Pay By Gold system. If anyone out there wants to critique the website, I'd appreciate it. Aside from that, a private label of the Pay By Gold system is also available, contact me personally if you want information about that. Khurram Khan [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get email for your site --- http://www.everyone.net --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: why?
a) the funds were 'frozen' so not lost, b)Authorities were notified so the criminals could be apprehended. so your 'guess' is as good as mine. Being just a small business person in another country confronting a large multimillion dollar company in the US on one side and 2 multinational banks on the other, there was not much I could do about it. With all due respect, there are two sides to every story. I may be drawing some suppostions here, but as I read the tale you told, you sent $150,000 US dollars to GSR, which went bad. This is more than they are likely to make in profit in the next several months of operation. GSR has positioned themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of fraud and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to GSR. They're out. If you were GSR, would you trust another wire from an operation that recently left you short $150,000? Sincerely, Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: why? ~e-gold/GSR
Craig Haynie wrote: GSR has positioned themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of fraud and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to GSR. They're out. I must disagree with your Craig, GSR does act as judge, jury, and executioner about fraud. For one, when a situation arises you ask GSR to investigate it. GSR will ask you to get a court order and present it to them, not e-gold. If you know of any way of contacting the e-gold people in Nevis, let me know. The problem comes in where there is a claim that some how involves GSR. GSR being the Judge Jury and executioner causes a one sided fact sheet. Aside from that, there isn't a way I know of to present a court order to e-gold. No one knows the executives of the Trust. Secondly, e-gold is a Nevis corporation and if a situation arises where they have to accept a court order to investigate GSR or on behalf of GSR, they don't have to. They are a Nevis corporation and don't have to recognize a US court order. We must not forget that e-gold and GSR are not as independent of each other as we hear. GSR controls the e-gold website and therefore can have a direct impact on any e-gold decisions. In Mr. Moore situation, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is in that if the fraudulent e-gold accounts had Public Histories we would see a spend for the complete balance into the GSR/OmniPay accounts. And also that you could not show me the court order that GSR presented to e-gold to get those funds. Solution: There is a need for an independent arbitrator on Fraud Issues... Maybe an idea for someone to make a business out of. Also, the agreement with the Bank of Nova Scotia and e-gold states that anyone can add a bar to the reserve with a signature from the escrow agent, but don't waste your time trying. GSR will not allow you to do so, if they did I'm sure GoldFinger would be bailing in their own gold. I would assume that e-gold the company didn't care where to bars came from in issueing more e-gold as long as they were the same bars, but obviously only GSR is allowed to bail in 400oz bars. Khurram Khan _ Get email for your site --- http://www.everyone.net --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: why?
Craig and Everyone, GSR has positioned themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of fraud and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to GSR. They're out. If you were GSR, would you trust another wire from an operation that recently left you short $150,000? Sincerely, Craig Maybe I am sticking my nose in here, but, as far as trusting an operation that left someone $150,000 short, it was my understanding that those funds never left the e-gold system. (aka OutExchanged) By the way, what do you mean "They're out"??? Did the funds leave the e-gold system? Were they outexchanged somehow? Doesn't GSR have the ability to track where the funds were spent? IF they were outexchanged, they know who outexchanged them, right? Mr. Moore was just as much a victim of this scam as were the banks that honored the checks, the banks that released the funds, and GSR. Mr. Moore did not write these checks, he just accepted them for deposit. How long was it before he was notified about the checks being bad? Was it not something over 15 days? This is not unlike the methods PayPal uses to accuse Market Makers of accepting fraudulent funds from someone who uses a bogus credit card to fund their PayPal account, then by e-gold. My point? Well, it seems to me that the Market Makers are the individuals who are tasked with bringing in the "fresh faces" to the e-gold system and Gold Economy. How so? Market Makers are the services that allow outsiders to change their currency to e-gold and become a "player" so to speak. Without new users, how long would e-gold last? IF there are only less than 100 K active accounts, could it last without adding new funds to the economy? Since GSR are increasing their InExchange requirements, this in effect, distances them from reputable forms of payment. (Smart move!) As you know, no matter what policy you have in place, no matter how careful your company, we are ALL victim to scams from time to time. We, the Market Makers, simply do not have the ability to be protected with a wall of payment processors as GSR is putting into place in the form of Market Makers. GSR obviously knows the cost of accepting direct payment from its clients---fraud and bank fees. IS there really another reason this "pie" is so quickly shared? (Meaning? Why else do they offer Market Makers a chance to make a profit off of something that they could do themselves?) Now, I am not shirking responsibility here, I am just stating that it appears to me that Mr. Moore followed the rules of the game. He deposited the checks. He waited until his bank cleared those checks. He even waited a few more days THEN released the funds to the scumbag's e-gold account. It was the banks that then took those funds back from GSR, not Mr. Moore. (Or, did I get this story all wrong? Did Mike actually take the funds back from GSR? If so, how in the world did he pull that off? Mike, if you DID do that, can I give you a list of...just kidding!) It was my understanding that Mike was then accused of having been a co-conspirator to this whole scam. (Remember, this all took place during the IR Summit in October. Mr. Moore generously financed a banquet with Mr. Kelly for the event even though he DID NOT ATTEND! Pretty brazen if he was attempting to scam GSR, wouldn't you say?) Why do people think that someone who has been working like hell to promote e-gold and bring users into the system daily would suddenly be out to steal from the hand that feeds them? $150,000 may seem like a large amount, but how long will that get you by in today's world? Why would someone risk jail time, a successful company, continued profit, and possible future endeavors for a one time payout? Would you give up your business for a one time score of $150 K? I wouldn't, that money would only last a year or two. I would rather earn a legitimate living and play be the rules. I am quite sure Mr. Moore feels the same. So, where is my little diatribe leading? It amazes me that as soon as something happens and a Market Maker is hit by a scam, he suddenly finds himself having fingers pointed at him. Craig, if I remember correctly, didn't PayPal shut your account down for a few weeks for one reason or another? Does that mean that GSR should not trust you anymore? OR your clients should not trust you because a company took action against you that was beyond your control? (or even comprehension?) How does that relate? Another entity took action against other peoples' funds that happened to involve your company, yes? This is what happened with Goldtoday, no? A bank reversed a wire (or took the funds back somehow) because he accepted a bad check and released funds AFTER it cleared. Should this not have been the banks fault that honored the check? Shouldn't they have taken the loss on that? I agree with everyone that an arbitration body is needed to hold funds when a
[e-gold-list] RE: why?
Eric, I feel you hit the point right on the nose. I also feel that Michael did not deserve this from GSR. One point that I would like to make is that it was GSR that got these Market Makers started. Why??? I have asked myself this as they are losing a lot of money, therfore allowing someone like you and Michael to cash in. Why did they really do this? One reason may just be because of what has happened to Michael. Why should they lose the money? Why not let you, the Market Makers take the Risk? So, you see, they have cleared themselves of any of these kind of problems. As for myself, I am happy that you guys are out there but I would not want to be in your shoes. I can assume that there has been more than Just Michael's problem. Maybe not as large but still, now it is the Market Makers that have the risk and not GSR Just my personal thoughts, Thanks MIKE - Original Message - From: "Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:18 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] RE: why? Craig and Everyone, GSR has positioned themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of fraud and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to GSR. They're out. If you were GSR, would you trust another wire from an operation that recently left you short $150,000? Sincerely, Craig Maybe I am sticking my nose in here, but, as far as trusting an operation that left someone $150,000 short, it was my understanding that those funds never left the e-gold system. (aka OutExchanged) By the way, what do you mean "They're out"??? Did the funds leave the e-gold system? Were they outexchanged somehow? Doesn't GSR have the ability to track where the funds were spent? IF they were outexchanged, they know who outexchanged them, right? Mr. Moore was just as much a victim of this scam as were the banks that honored the checks, the banks that released the funds, and GSR. Mr. Moore did not write these checks, he just accepted them for deposit. How long was it before he was notified about the checks being bad? Was it not something over 15 days? This is not unlike the methods PayPal uses to accuse Market Makers of accepting fraudulent funds from someone who uses a bogus credit card to fund their PayPal account, then by e-gold. My point? Well, it seems to me that the Market Makers are the individuals who are tasked with bringing in the "fresh faces" to the e-gold system and Gold Economy. How so? Market Makers are the services that allow outsiders to change their currency to e-gold and become a "player" so to speak. Without new users, how long would e-gold last? IF there are only less than 100 K active accounts, could it last without adding new funds to the economy? Since GSR are increasing their InExchange requirements, this in effect, distances them from reputable forms of payment. (Smart move!) As you know, no matter what policy you have in place, no matter how careful your company, we are ALL victim to scams from time to time. We, the Market Makers, simply do not have the ability to be protected with a wall of payment processors as GSR is putting into place in the form of Market Makers. GSR obviously knows the cost of accepting direct payment from its clients---fraud and bank fees. IS there really another reason this "pie" is so quickly shared? (Meaning? Why else do they offer Market Makers a chance to make a profit off of something that they could do themselves?) Now, I am not shirking responsibility here, I am just stating that it appears to me that Mr. Moore followed the rules of the game. He deposited the checks. He waited until his bank cleared those checks. He even waited a few more days THEN released the funds to the scumbag's e-gold account. It was the banks that then took those funds back from GSR, not Mr. Moore. (Or, did I get this story all wrong? Did Mike actually take the funds back from GSR? If so, how in the world did he pull that off? Mike, if you DID do that, can I give you a list of...just kidding!) It was my understanding that Mike was then accused of having been a co-conspirator to this whole scam. (Remember, this all took place during the IR Summit in October. Mr. Moore generously financed a banquet with Mr. Kelly for the event even though he DID NOT ATTEND! Pretty brazen if he was attempting to scam GSR, wouldn't you say?) Why do people think that someone who has been working like hell to promote e-gold and bring users into the system daily would suddenly be out to steal from the hand that feeds them? $150,000 may seem like a large amount, but how long will that get you by in today's world? Why would someone risk jail time, a successful company, continued profit, and possible future endeavors for a one time payout? Would you give up your business for a one time score of $150 K? I
[e-gold-list] Re: Money Froze!!!! Latest Update of EE-Ventures
The latest word has it that Ee-biz is pulling out of E-gold. They are asking all their members to open an account in the Parex Bank in Latvia. The problem with this is, if you open a personal account you have to report it to the IRS. Next best step would be to go to http://offshorehaven.nu become a founder in their Nexus foundation, create an IBC with a bank account in Parex bank that is own/held by the Foundation. Foundations don't have to be reported. Cost, about $1500 to $1600 for the Foundation and another $500 for the IBC. The foundation provides an anonymous CC, that can have funds transferred into it from the bank and from E-gold as well. Thought you might be interested. Privacy. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Join now! - too late we have closed and taken your money
It is hard to see how anyone (older than about 9) can be so stupid as to fall for a Ponzi game. Do you participate in the social security system? Don Henson No, as a matter of fact, I do not. You are right that the SS system is structurally a Ponzi game. However, it does differ in one very important respect: Ponzi did not have the legal power to force people to give him money, he had to fool them into giving it to him voluntarily. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: why?
One point that I would like to make is that it was GSR that got these Market Makers started. Why??? I have asked myself this as they are losing a lot of money, therfore allowing someone like you and Michael to cash in. Why did they really do this? One reason may just be because of what has happened to Michael. Why should they lose the money? Why not let you, the Market Makers take the Risk? MIKE Gee... You mean in order to make money you must take a risk? Whoda thunk it? :) Outsourcing in-exchanges to market-makers was one of GSR's brilliant moves. This move might not have been aimed at securing their wallets from harm. By decentralizing the in-exchange process, they make it much harder for a fraudster ,or group of fraudsters, to bring down e-gold. Viking Coder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
