[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
At 08:30 PM 9/18/2003 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, with regards to Jim's comments about synthetic diamonds: They are grossly over-rated. What most of the media articles and snake oil salesmen pushing synths do not tell you is that the technology has already been around for years, it does make nice stones but not reliably, and that solid appraisers CAN tell the difference -- and if there is even a margin of doubt as to a diamond's authenticity as a naturally-occuring stone, it is so noted on its certification and/or appraisal. Nature is giving man a helping hand on the matter as well: diamonds of the degree of near-perfection to which synthetic standards aspire are virtually non-existent in the world of natural stones, and stick out like a sore thumb. On the other hand, man-made imperfections look so contrived that only a fool would not know them for what they are. Can you offer creditable on-line references to support these contentions? steve --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Economically Illiterate Politician of the Week
"We expect our trading partners to treat our people fairly - our producers and workers and farmers and manufacturers - and we don't think we're being treated fairly when a currency is controlled by the government ... We believe the currency ought to be controlled by the market." President George W. Bush, criticising Chinese economic policy in a CNBC interview. Perhaps it's time to e-mail the White House links to e-gold, NORFED, ALFII, FreeTraders.org, and a copy of the Constitution yet again. Frank --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
There is already one (albeit imperfect) "hybrid" between purely backed and redeemable currency and worthless fiat Monopoly money: the American Liberty Dollar. Available in gold and silver coin, paper redeemable for same, or digital redeemable for silver. See http://www.norfed.org for more information. Also, with regards to Jim's comments about synthetic diamonds: They are grossly over-rated. What most of the media articles and snake oil salesmen pushing synths do not tell you is that the technology has already been around for years, it does make nice stones but not reliably, and that solid appraisers CAN tell the difference -- and if there is even a margin of doubt as to a diamond's authenticity as a naturally-occuring stone, it is so noted on its certification and/or appraisal. Nature is giving man a helping hand on the matter as well: diamonds of the degree of near-perfection to which synthetic standards aspire are virtually non-existent in the world of natural stones, and stick out like a sore thumb. On the other hand, man-made imperfections look so contrived that only a fool would not know them for what they are. Frank --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Trade, Tokens, Taxes
George: A few clarifications are in order. There are only individual people trading things for things. I view this as primary. A trade is just two individuals mutually causing a change in their state of affairs. Before a trade, Alice is in state X and Bob is in state Y. After the trade, Alice is in state X' and Bob is in state Y'. If in Alice's judgment X' > X, and in Bob's judgment Y' > Y, then that trade is what you call a "win-win." Most honest trades have this characteristic, otherwise neither Alice or Bob would be motivated to make the trade, but of course buyer's or seller's remorse is always possible. For example, before a trade, Alice has three trays of flowers and her hair needs styling. Bob needs three trays of flowers and he is a hair stylist with an hour free next week. After the trade, Alice has a promise from Bob to style her hair next week, and Bob has three trays of flowers with an extra hour blocked out on his calendar. The possibilities are endless. You can use fiat tokens, gold, notes redeemable for gold, physical assets of any kind, direct services, "Ithaca hours" (what Hettinga not so fondly calls "labor theory of value Marxist happy horseshit"), promises to deliver services in the future, whatever you like. It is none of my business how you or anybody else trades. If Alice wants to print up a fiat certificate of some kind, and give this to Bob in exchange for a hair style, then more power to her. If she defrauds or forces Bob into the trade, then I certainly sympathize with Bob but it's generally no business of mine unless I know Alice or Bob in some way. Now here is another example, and perhaps some of you can see where I am going with this. Let's say Alice issues fiat tokens. On occasion, Bob wants to borrow some tokens from Alice. So Bob issues a bond and trades that to Alice in exchange for some new tokens. Bob promises to repay Alice in tokens with interest. So far so good. I don't have a problem with it. LET IT HAPPEN. It does not threaten me, my loved ones, or my property in any way. Yet this is exactly what the US fedgov does, with the Federal Reserve in the place of Alice, and the US Government in the place of Bob. So why should I have a problem with that, if I don't have a problem with private individuals or companies doing it? Or rather, what exactly would Alice or Bob have to do to cause me to object? I can only think of two things. 1. Bob would have to approach me and demand that I pay him some Alice tokens, on pain of imprisonment, loss of property, injury, or death. 2. Bob would have to approach me and demand that I not trade in anything except Alice's tokens, on pain of imprisonment, loss of property, injury, or death. In various ways and at various times, this is exactly what the US Government has done. They demand taxes paid in tokens, and they forbid many forms of trade. At various times they have forbidden the ownership of gold, the stating of legal contracts in terms of gold settlement, and even the production of metal coins "of original design" with the intent to use them as "current money:" http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html So as long as Bob didn't do (1) or (2) above, I would not have any objection to his and Alice's cozy little arrangement. However, because Bob (the US Gov't) does threaten (1) and (2) above, and not just to me but to everybody in the US and some outside the US, Bob is effectively forcing people to accept Alice's tokens in trade, to avoid other forms of trade, and to toil their lives away in pursuit of the tokens. This is what people mean when they say that US Gov't bonds are backed by the sweat of taxpayers, and that Federal Reserve tokens represent the debt obligations of taxpayers and are not true assets in themselves. Note that I do not think "fractional reserve lending" is the source of the problem. As I pointed out with a detailed example many months ago, and as Greenspan points out in his 1966 article, fractional reserve lending is entirely possible even within a monetary system based entirely on gold. But even here the Federal Reserve enters the stage, magnifying the otherwise morally neutral practice of fractional reserve lending into a major engine of monetary inflation. -- Patrick http://fexl.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E-gold for Sale at Spot!! - no commissions! Guido from Betonmarkets.com
On Thursday, Sep 18, 2003, at 17:25 Atlantic/Azores, Ragnar wrote: Did you use Gold-today.com? --- Jonathan Boles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Oh no! I just bought 4000 AUD gold at 3.5% rate, only half an hour ago. Ouch!! :-) No, I used GoldEx.net, and I overstated the rate too... it should've been 3% -- my apologies to Paul :) :) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Hollywood helps the new peach & blue $20
http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=38718 It also has a link to a pretty nice pic of the new bill's front side. The ad agencies gave it a tagline: "Safer, Smarter & More Secure" (translation: "counterfeiting's probably a bigger problem than we'll ever be willing to admit!"). JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
At 06:58 PM 9/18/2003 +0300, FileMatrix wrote: As Graham said, "it will only be a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the worlds economies"! Gold simply can't back the world's economy! There isn't enough! Paper money can exactly because it can be printed (and destroyed)! Gold and Economic Freedom by Alan Greenspan [written in 1966] This article originally appeared in a newsletter: The Objectivist published in 1966 and was reprinted in Ayn Rand's Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense - perhaps more clearly and subtly than many consistent defenders of laissez-faire - that gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other. In order to understand the source of their antagonism, it is necessary first to understand the specific role of gold in a free society. Money is the common denominator of all economic transactions. It is that commodity which serves as a medium of exchange, is universally acceptable to all participants in an exchange economy as payment for their goods or services, and can, therefore, be used as a standard of market value and as a store of value, i.e., as a means of saving. The existence of such a commodity is a precondition of a division of labor economy. If men did not have some commodity of objective value which was generally acceptable as money, they would have to resort to primitive barter or be forced to live on self-sufficient farms and forgo the inestimable advantages of specialization. If men had no means to store value, i.e., to save, neither long-range planning nor exchange would be possible. What medium of exchange will be acceptable to all participants in an economy is not determined arbitrarily. First, the medium of exchange should be durable. In a primitive society of meager wealth, wheat might be sufficiently durable to serve as a medium, since all exchanges would occur only during and immediately after the harvest, leaving no value-surplus to store. But where store-of-value considerations are important, as they are in richer, more civilized societies, the medium of exchange must be a durable commodity, usually a metal. A metal is generally chosen because it is homogeneous and divisible: every unit is the same as every other and it can be blended or formed in any quantity. Precious jewels, for example, are neither homogeneous nor divisible. More important, the commodity chosen as a medium must be a luxury. Human desires for luxuries are unlimited and, therefore, luxury goods are always in demand and will always be acceptable. Wheat is a luxury in underfed civilizations, but not in a prosperous society. Cigarettes ordinarily would not serve as money, but they did in post-World War II Europe where they were considered a luxury. The term "luxury good" implies scarcity and high unit value. Having a high unit value, such a good is easily portable; for instance, an ounce of gold is worth a half-ton of pig iron. In the early stages of a developing money economy, several media of exchange might be used, since a wide variety of commodities would fulfill the foregoing conditions. However, one of the commodities will gradually displace all others, by being more widely acceptable. Preferences on what to hold as a store of value, will shift to the most widely acceptable commodity, which, in turn, will make it still more acceptable. The shift is progressive until that commodity becomes the sole medium of exchange. The use of a single medium is highly advantageous for the same reasons that a money economy is superior to a barter economy: it makes exchanges possible on an incalculably wider scale. Whether the single medium is gold, silver, seashells, cattle, or tobacco is optional, depending on the context and development of a given economy. In fact, all have been employed, at various times, as media of exchange. Even in the present century, two major commodities, gold and silver, have been used as international media of exchange, with gold becoming the predominant one. Gold, having both artistic and functional uses and being relatively scarce, has significant advantages over all other media of exchange. Since the beginning of World War I, it has been virtually the sole international standard of exchange. If all goods and services were to be paid for in gold, large payments would be difficult to execute and this would tend to limit the extent of a society's divisions of labor and specialization. Thus a logical extension of the creation of a medium of exchange is the development of a banking system and credit instruments (bank notes and deposits) which act as a substitute for, but are convertible into, gold. A free banking system based on gold is able to extend credit and thus to create bank notes (currency
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 11:58 AM, FileMatrix wrote: As Graham said, "it will only be a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the worlds economies"! Gold simply can't back the world's economy! There isn't enough! Paper money can exactly because it can be printed (and destroyed)! "Backing" the world's economy means nothing. There is no need for a central board "measuring" the size of a ridiculous abstraction like "the economy," and printing up pieces of paper with numerals on them such that they all add up to that total number. This is a conceptually empty idea, signifying nothing. There is no "size" of "the" economy. There are only individual people trading things for things. For thousands of years people traded gold, silver, and other goods and services in exchange for gold, silver, and other goods and services. Gold and silver happen to have been the most universally traded commodities, but are otherwise essentially no different from other assets. In most places and times the standard unit of exchange was defined as a fixed quantity of the most universally traded commodities, namely gold and silver. You are suggesting that in 1933 everything changed, and FDR had the good sense to turn the conventional wisdom of thousands of years completely upside down. Oh. Sorry, I didn't get the memo. Paper money doesn't need gold, and that is because it should back the economy not the gold. Paper money is supposed to be issued to cover the entire economic value of a country. If you would try to back the USD with gold, you would find it impossible to back the *entire* economic value of US with that USD. There just isn't enough gold in the world for that. There is plenty of gold and other assets to "back" any economy. That's because the economy is nothing more than individuals trading gold and other assets. To suggest that we need a particular group of people to produce fake "assets" out of thin air and that millions of people should then trade those fake assets as if they were real is ... insane just on the face of it. *An economy has to grow! The amount of gold, in the entire world, can't grow (extracted from the ground) as fast as the world's economy, and certainly not in the same amount / volume.* If I am a hungry barber and you are a mop-haired pizza delivery man, then we can make a trade. Now I am a sated barber and you are a neatly groomed pizza delivery man. The economy has now grown because both of us are now better off, i.e. wealthier, than we were before. Yet no additional money was printed -- or even mined! Therefore, it is possible for the economy to grow without any expansion in the global supply of money. QED At this point you may object: "But that's barter!" Not necessarily. The barber can give the pizza man 1g of gold, and two weeks later the pizza man can give the barber 1g of gold. I repeat: there is no "economy." There is no central "thing" called the economy that needs a particular group of people to "manage" it in any way. Also, there is plenty of gold that can be used to trade goods and services. If there is not "enough" gold, then the value of gold relative to other goods and services simply rises. Or in other words, the price of goods and services in terms of gold simply drops. Now the haircut (and the pizza) both cost 0.5g, for example. There is nothing unique about gold here. Every single asset has a "price" in terms of every other single asset. A gram of gold is traded for so much wheat, a bushel of wheat is traded for so many tomatoes, etc. It just turns out that gold happens to be the thing that most people ALWAYS want, at any time and under any circumstances. It's shiny, durable, divisible, recognizable, and ultimately useful in manufacturing, including the making of jewelry to impress women. The point is, gold is an ASSET, just like tomatoes, lumber, water, fertilizer, chicken wire, pencils, cigarettes, cat litter, haircuts, asphalt, bulldozers, guns, and kiwi fruit. It just so happens that of all the various forms of assets, gold is the one that most people want most of the time. You might argue that paper "money" is ALSO an asset. As JP says, whoever thinks paper tokens are worthless, please give them all to me! But this is only because the bulk of the population have given themselves over to the mass enslavement and delusion that a particular group of people called the "Fed" can manufacture "assets" out of thin air. They cannot. Nobody can. But they have gotten the bulk of the population to jump to their tune. By printing up paper, the government can get contractors and their employees to work for them like dogs. Imagine if I could fire up my laser jet printer and print out a "certificate," which I would then give to a cleaning service to clean up my house! And that certificate was redeemable for absolutely nothing! Boy, I would indeed endeavor to "back" an entir
[e-gold-list] e-bullion available at discount from Gold Age
Dear valued Gold Age customers: Gold Age has a sale on e-bullion at 1.75% above spot payable via e-gold, wire, or direct cash deposit. Minimum order is $2,000.00. First come, first served. $40,000.00 available. Orders under $2,000.00 are at 2.00%. We also have EvoCash available at only 1.0% About Gold Age: Gold Age is the first and oldest independent exchange provider, in business since 1999, providing fast, courteous service to customers worldwide. Local cash deposits can be made in the U.S., Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Germany, Australia. We cover all of Europe via our affiliate, IceGold. Local services in India coming soon. Gold Age is a member of the Global Digital Currencies Association (GDCA), a transparent organization geared towards disclosure of business practices in the e-currency arena. Because Reputation Counts = Regards, Ragnar Vice Pres. - GDCA - http://www.gdcaonline.org Vice Pres. - Gold Age - http://www.goldage.net editor - Liberty Impact - http://www.libertyimpact.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
Another possibility is that if the price of gold generally increases enough, then the mining industry will pick up the pace and more gold will be produced. Gold isn't a finite resource, it's just that with the relatively low prices of recent years there isn't much incentive to mine it out of the ground due to the expenses involved. New Books at Discount Prices --- Send the right message --- + Today freemail + Get your free, private email address at http://www.today.com.au --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The REAL perspective!
Graham Kelly wrote: Guys, Even when the ecurrencies are 1000 times bigger, it will only be a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the worlds economies... ... Graham's right. To illustrate this, I saw a story yesterday on a line of small cute ceramic statues called "Precious Moments." These are ceramic collectibles with absolutely no practical use. The article is about a decline in their business from $206 million in 1996 to "just" $96 million last year, and what they are doing to stem the reversal (making teddy bears, and selling miniature versions of their stuff at WalMart). I was AMAZED they could sell so much that almost $100 million was a *decline* in sales, for a product I'd barely heard-of... JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
Dear Patrick, As Graham said, "it will only be a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the worlds economies"! Gold simply can't back the world's economy! There isn't enough! Paper money can exactly because it can be printed (and destroyed)! Paper money doesn't need gold, and that is because it should back the economy not the gold. Paper money is supposed to be issued to cover the entire economic value of a country. If you would try to back the USD with gold, you would find it impossible to back the *entire* economic value of US with that USD. There just isn't enough gold in the world for that. *An economy has to grow! The amount of gold, in the entire world, can't grow (extracted from the ground) as fast as the world's economy, and certainly not in the same amount / volume.* Yes, paper money has no value, but guess what: neither does gold! Gold doesn't feed you or your family. Gold is good because of its security when economies crash, and because it can transcend governments and banks and people can use DGCs to easily transfer value anywhere in the world. The only reason I am interested in gold is because of DGCs. Paper money, gold and stock have value only as much as people give them. They have no intrinsic value. They don't feed you, they don't shelter you. Besides, paper is always good for fire, gold isn't good even for that (okay, okay, is good for electronic circuits). Let me put it another way... Say the fiat currency is backed by gold and the economy grows. That means the currency (/gold) is more valuable. What happens with stock when it becomes too valuable? It *looses* value because though people want to buy it, they just can't afford it. So, the stock has to split to have *liquidity*. You have the example of TGC with its shares: they are too valuable / expensive for people to buy them (sure, they have a reason for that). Would you do the same (split) with paper currencies? You can't afford that because then they wouldn't be backed by gold, and it would be like changing the money every few years. What a mess! So, what is there to be done? You slowly and constantly devaluate the paper money to fit / cover / back the entire economy, just as gold has to back the entire amount of DGCs. Or, if the economy slows down, you withdraw paper money, again to cover the entire economic value left. You can't do that with gold! Gold is, paper money is made! A different example... Say any of the merchants here would sell a CD for 1 gram of (e)gold - round value: 10 USD. But, they would say "wait a minute, gold's real value is 100 USD/gram, not 10!" What would the merchant do? Sell the CDs in gold grams, or in USD? Who would by a CD for 1 gram of gold valued by the merchant for 100 USD? Nobody! Why not? Because nobody values gold that much, since gold itself has no value. The paper money (10 USD) doesn't have value either, but most people value it only because the rest of people do the same and because there's plenty of paper around. If the merchant would sell for 0.1 grams of 100 USD/gram, you have the same price as normally is - 10 USD, so you've done nothing but went a different road to Rome. The final value of the CD remains the same. Regards, George Hara www.filematrix.xnet.ro --- Xnet scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind RAV AntiVirus. Xnet automatically scans all messages for viruses using RAV AntiVirus. Nota: RAV AntiVirus poate sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cand deschideti fisiere atasate si ca MobiFon nu este responsabila pentru nici un prejudiciu cauzat de virusi. Disclaimer: RAV AntiVirus may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that MobiFon is not responsible for any damages caused by viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Trustworthy credit card funding
Any trustworthy and unexpensive (with reasonable fees) e-gold funding from credit cards? Thank you, Ra. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Mugabe's "bearer checks"
On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 08:37 AM, James M. Ray wrote: http://www.sabcnews.com/Article/PrintWholeStory/0,2160,65959,00.html Wow. The fastest shrinking economy on the planet! JMR Wow, so instead of printing pieces of paper and calling them "cash," they are printing pieces of paper and calling them "bearer cheques." Oh, and the pieces of paper called "bearer cheques" EXPIRE on 31-Jan-04. Wow, that sounds like a GREAT deal -- sign me up! I would MUCH rather have a piece of paper called a "bearer cheque" that expires than a piece of paper called "cash" that does not expire. What a great "invention," as they call it. This is classic: Banking executives said the only difference between a bearer cheque and a banknote was that the central bank would not call them banknotes, and that they expired on January 31 next year. Seems to me that in Zimbabwe the terms "cash," "bearer cheque," and "banknote" are all pretty much synonymous with "dog turd," except that a dog turd is much more valuable because you can use it for fertilizer. Here's another classic from a "bank executive:" "With inflation now at 427%, it means that five times as much cash is needed now than a year ago," Let me get this straight. Because inflation is so high, they need to print up a LOT more cash. The people of Zimbabwe seem to be living in one of those Hieronymus Bosch paintings of Hell. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Gold-Stores.net Is Adding WebMoney !
Dear List Members, Gold-Stores.net Amazon Shop is this now adding WebMoney to the accepted currencies for settlement on purchases. We ship worldwide. For your purchase of Amazon products through Gold Stores, we now automatically accept via our shopping cart: E-gold E-bullion Evocash Moneybookers Pecunix 1MDC eLiberty Dollar (also accepting currency and silver LDs via snail mail) We will complete the addition of WebMoney in the next few days and I invite you shop with us. Gold Stores carries everything Amazon.com sells. If you don't see a particular item in the Gold Stores shopping area but you can find it on Amazon.com, send me the item and number and I will personally - manually place the order for you. If our cart will not accept your shipping address, like Serbia or Indonesia, again, e-mail us and we will process your order manually for immediate shipment to you. Gold Stores is a proud member of the Global Digital Currency Association-GDCA (www.gdcaonline.com) and the E-currency Merchants Association- EcMA (www.ecmaweb.com) The EcMA offers an additional 5% Gold Stores discount to all members. Thanks for your support. [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 08:08 AM, FileMatrix wrote: In conclusion, gold needs paper money so it could be valuable relative to that. George: You have it exactly backwards. Paper money needs gold so it can be valuable relative to that. That's the way it was in the United States until about 1933. The Mint Act of 1792 defined the "dollar" as 24.75 grains of pure gold. So if you presented a Ten Dollar paper note to the US Treasury, the Treasury was obligated to give you 247.5 grains of pure gold. This took the form of an "Eagle" coin, defined in the Act of 1792 as consisting of 247.5 grains of pure gold combined with 22.5 grains of silver and copper for added strength and durability, yielding a coin weighing 270 grains. I can see that FDR and his intellectual heirs did a good job in re-educating you to accept colored paper as valuable simply because a government worker prints it, and for no other reason whatsoever. You are a good and obedient servant. You forget one thing in your arguments: paper money can be printed, gold CAN NOT! Economic value can not be pegged to gold! You have it exactly backwards. Precisely because paper money can be printed, economic value cannot be pegged to it. You cannot create economic value by putting some ink on a piece of paper. If that piece of paper cannot redeemed for a real asset (e.g. gold, silver, wheat, a haircut, whatever), then printing the piece of paper actually destroys economic value because the person doing the printing is getting something for nothing. Didn't your mother ever tell you that money doesn't grow on trees? And even it were possible to make it from led, the day gold will be created on industrial scale in particle accelerators, is the day gold ends its life as currency. So, that case is out. You have it exactly backwards. Paper tokens falsely passing as "money" are now being created on an industrial scale using printing presses, not particle accelerators. This is the day that paper tokens end their life as currency. So, that case is out. -- Patrick http://fexl.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] The REAL perspective!
Guys, Even when the ecurrencies are 1000 times bigger, it will only be a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the worlds economies... but either way, I'm planning to be here for the long haul! All I see is increase in business (as well as problems, which we'll address as they come up, as we usually do!) :) Graham Kelly CEO On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:28:32 +1000, "Asiana Gold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > I have received a good question from one of my customers in > Japan which I though could be best answered here. > > "Have people considered the > problem of what will happen when systems like e-gold > really take off in a big way? If these organizations - GoldNow http://www.GoldNow.St Primary Customer Service +61 3 9776-4886 US Phone 1-866-999-1717 US Fax 1-213-559-8555 UK Phone +44 (0) 709 233-7612 UK Phone +44 (0) 709 201-4015 CEO Order a US *or* Israeli issued debit card today, at https://www.goldnow.st/debit_card_buy.asp --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] EUR or USD?
Guys, I'm getting quite a few requests for an Israeli issued no name debit card denominated in EUR, rather than USD. Can I have some feedback from y'all re: your preference? Regards from Trieste, Italy! Graham Kelly CEO - GoldNow http://www.GoldNow.St Primary Customer Service +61 3 9776-4886 US Phone 1-866-999-1717 US Fax 1-213-559-8555 UK Phone +44 (0) 709 233-7612 UK Phone +44 (0) 709 201-4015 CEO Order a US *or* Israeli issued debit card today, at https://www.goldnow.st/debit_card_buy.asp --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Mugabe's "bearer checks"
http://www.sabcnews.com/Article/PrintWholeStory/0,2160,65959,00.html Wow. The fastest shrinking economy on the planet! JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
FileMatrix wrote: ... And even it were possible to make it from led, the day gold will be created on industrial scale in particle accelerators, is the day gold ends its life as currency. So, that case is out. ... That's why there's a "fusion codicil" in e-gold's account user agreement! If I recall correctly, it's possible to make real gold now, but it costs too much. Diamonds are another matter entirely (SELL!!!). JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Sale E-gold 1:1 Spot in NEW YORK. call 888-4117684
Do you need E-gold? Call us and we will offer you the best rates of exchange. call 888-4117684, ask Natali or Vadim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
David, You forget one thing in your arguments: paper money can be printed, gold CAN NOT! Economic value can not be pegged to gold! And even it were possible to make it from led, the day gold will be created on industrial scale in particle accelerators, is the day gold ends its life as currency. So, that case is out. Regards, George Hara www.filematrix.xnet.ro --- Xnet scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind RAV AntiVirus. Xnet automatically scans all messages for viruses using RAV AntiVirus. Nota: RAV AntiVirus poate sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cand deschideti fisiere atasate si ca MobiFon nu este responsabila pentru nici un prejudiciu cauzat de virusi. Disclaimer: RAV AntiVirus may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that MobiFon is not responsible for any damages caused by viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E-gold for Sale at Spot!! - no commissions! Guido from Betonmarkets.com
On Thursday, Sep 18, 2003, at 11:25 Atlantic/Azores, Guido Farrugia wrote: Hey All, If any of you need e-gold we have a lot to dispose - can take any orders of $2000 or over. The e-gold is being sold at spot rate (no commissions!) on condition that the funds are wired to us by wire in advance. Oh no! I just bought 4000 AUD gold at 3.5% rate, only half an hour ago. Ouch!! :-) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] E-gold for Sale at Spot!! - no commissions! Guido from Betonmarkets.com
Hey All, If any of you need e-gold we have a lot to dispose - can take any orders of $2000 or over. The e-gold is being sold at spot rate (no commissions!) on condition that the funds are wired to us by wire in advance. Anyone in need of e-gold please either e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you e-mail support please mention my name since i don't handle support anymore. Don't lose this possibility! With the US$ going down and gas/oil prices rising gold can only go up. Guido --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
> Nothing much would happen because: > > 1. Paper money will always exist because they are needed as a representation > of a country's economic value. Just as stock goes up or down according to > the trust of people in a company, so is paper money going up or down > according to the interests of investors (and of governments) in a country's > economy. The analoge of firm share price and national currency value is a load of tripe. There might be some correspondence between currency value and economic prospects, but that does not make centrally planned nationalised currencies a good idea. Far from it. It just represents noise in the crucial process of economic calculation. > > If gold would be the representation of economic value (everything would be > priced in gold), there would be a problem because various countries would > value differently the gram of gold... according the interests of investors > (and of governments) in that country's economy (as in USA, EU, and... > Somalia). Since that is not possible, it means that the price (in gold) of > goods would constantly vary as the economic value constantly varies (and > with this, increased extremes of economic value: severe crashes and > luxurious wealth). Countries do not value things. Individuals and markets value things. Factor prices (i.e. wages and property rents) vary over geographic space and the efficient allocation of capital and labour over land/geographical area. This process is most efficient where there is a common money commodity base, and where money, labour, capital and products are free to move. This makes for more liquid and elastic markets for factors and products and so makes prices more stable and vacancy/unemployment rates lower and less volitile. It also reduces the variability of factor and product prices over geographic area (even ground rents). > > 2. If gold would become extremely popular and people would use DGCs on a > mass > scale, it wouldn't hurt paper money because the goods are priced in paper > money. People would always have to exchange (even just virtually, since they > don't actually get the paper money in their hand) DGCs for paper money to > buy goods. So, paper money remains unhurt. Individuals can value goods in whatever metrics they want. The form of payment media has little to do with the unit of value -- the same unit of payment can support multiple forms of payment. > > If merchants would use DGCs on a mass scale, because of the low (and fixed) > amount of gold available in the world, one would think gold's price > (relative to paper money) would go up. If merchants would price their goods > in paper money, you would have the above case, but, if merchants would sell > goods for gold and there would be no paper money relative to which gold > could go up, it would mean gold will have the same value (because it can > relate to anything) and people wouldn't be able to buy much with their > little amount of gold. Hence, gold would be abandoned as currency. There is no long term relationship between the demand for the stock of a commodity and the price of the commodity. Demand and supply in markets are flow functions of prices, not stock functions of prices. Its the interest rate, not the price, that regulates the stocks of commodities (see http://www.geocities.com/davidhillary/goldbanking/chapter1). > > 3. If gold wouldn't have paper money to relate to, it would have to relate > to the goods sold for gold. Again, you have the case in section 1: the > constant variation of the price (in gold) of goods. The more gold is used as money, the more fiat currencies are priced in gold. That is both for the exchange rate and the interest rate differential. I would suspect that if gold has a monetary revival, fiat currency central banks will peg their currencies to gold, and determine their monetary policy by establishing a rate of change of the log of the price of currency in terms of gold. For example a 1% p.a. depreciation rate would lead to a 1% p.a. interest rate premium on the currency. So, to tighten monetary policy the central bank would increase the rate of depreciation, elevating the interest rate. The peg could also be subject to ad hoc devaluations/revaluations, however, to the extent that they were anticipated they would have the opposite effect to the one desired. From this point the pressure to adopt a 'hard peg' (or convertibility) to gold would be great, as the central banks would be seen for what they are: noise-makers, and/or transactors would move their monetary assets into explicit gold denominated deposits and notes, and judge their profits and losses in gold. > > > In conclusion, gold needs paper money so it could be valuable relative to > that. Firstly paper money can be denominated in gold. Secondly, gold, used as money, is used to value goods, and is its price is the inverse of the price of goods. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To u
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
Nothing much would happen because: 1. Paper money will always exist because they are needed as a representation of a country's economic value. Just as stock goes up or down according to the trust of people in a company, so is paper money going up or down according to the interests of investors (and of governments) in a country's economy. If gold would be the representation of economic value (everything would be priced in gold), there would be a problem because various countries would value differently the gram of gold... according the interests of investors (and of governments) in that country's economy (as in USA, EU, and... Somalia). Since that is not possible, it means that the price (in gold) of goods would constantly vary as the economic value constantly varies (and with this, increased extremes of economic value: severe crashes and luxurious wealth). 2. If gold would become extremely popular and people would use DGCs on a mass scale, it wouldn't hurt paper money because the goods are priced in paper money. People would always have to exchange (even just virtually, since they don't actually get the paper money in their hand) DGCs for paper money to buy goods. So, paper money remains unhurt. If merchants would use DGCs on a mass scale, because of the low (and fixed) amount of gold available in the world, one would think gold's price (relative to paper money) would go up. If merchants would price their goods in paper money, you would have the above case, but, if merchants would sell goods for gold and there would be no paper money relative to which gold could go up, it would mean gold will have the same value (because it can relate to anything) and people wouldn't be able to buy much with their little amount of gold. Hence, gold would be abandoned as currency. 3. If gold wouldn't have paper money to relate to, it would have to relate to the goods sold for gold. Again, you have the case in section 1: the constant variation of the price (in gold) of goods. In conclusion, gold needs paper money so it could be valuable relative to that. Besides, USA is not a world state, so if they would want to put back doors in E-gold's system, either E-gold would move their servers in the Caribbean, or I would change the system because they would allow a government to stick its nose where it shouldn't. Regards, George Hara www.filematrix.xnet.ro --- Xnet scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind RAV AntiVirus. Xnet automatically scans all messages for viruses using RAV AntiVirus. Nota: RAV AntiVirus poate sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cand deschideti fisiere atasate si ca MobiFon nu este responsabila pentru nici un prejudiciu cauzat de virusi. Disclaimer: RAV AntiVirus may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that MobiFon is not responsible for any damages caused by viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
