[ECOLOG-L] Children in the field Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Wayne Tyson]

Well said Lis.

For what use the information might be, some young friends of ours do a lot 
of work in the field all over the world and they frequently take their 
children with them rather than consigning them to "caregivers." They took 
their first-born son to Borneo at ten months. A few years ago when he was 
eight, he was towing the canoe up the shallows of the river to the research 
station by wading with the tow-rope over his shoulder and remarked, "Gosh, 
here I am in Borneo, wading up a jungle river and my friends are back home 
in Boston playing with video games. He got his scuba certification that year 
in Indonesia even though he has to "wait" until he's ten to get certified in 
the US. His little sister learned scuba last year at eight even though she 
has to be nine even in Indonesia to get a card. The family that scubas 
together . . .


What kind of adults will these kids make, I wonder?

Oh, to have had parents like this . . . 

WT

- Original Message - 
From: "Lis Castillo Nelis" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?


I reassert that advice concerning the child’s well being was unsolicited in 
the original post.  If a colleague over 50 asked for gear recommendations, 
no one would have recommended that they avoid fieldwork because of the risk 
for heart attack.  We assume they are intelligent enough to take care of 
themselves.


We need similar assumptions for parents.  The original poster probably 
already spoke with their pediatrician.  They may even have a medically 
trained babysitter joining them at the top of the mountain. We don’t know 
and it isn’t our business.  Instead of assuming the worst of each other, how 
about assuming the best?



In the future, if we are concerned about someone’s life choices, a short 
email directly to the sender may be the better option.  Many young 
researchers read this forum.  We need to be careful what message we send 
out.  This thread showed some terrific support for families in science. 
Unfortunately, it also showed that many colleagues doubt parenting decisions 
of others, and that some colleagues think parents can’t be good scientists 
at all.  If we want to diversify science we need to accept those who make 
decisions different from our own.



Good luck to all parents out there who choose to take your kids with you 
into the field!



Lis



Lisa Castillo Nelis
NSF Postdoctoral Fellow
Stanford University
Gordon Laboratory
Department of Biology
Gilbert Building, Room 109
371 Serra Mall
Stanford, CA 94305-5020

Phone: 650-725-6791
Email: lne...@stanford.edu
Home page: http://www.stanford.edu/~lnelis/


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Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[David L. McNeely]

Carolyn, I am the person who mentioned children being forbidden on field trips. 
 I provided that information in response to an explicit question.  The policy 
has nothing to do with whether or not the person who wished to take a child on 
a field trip was a woman or a man.  No parent could take a child on a class 
field trip that I sponsored or supervised.  It is as simple as we are going on 
the field trip to do work.  We do not have time to properly supervise a child.  
And it was in keeping with a university policy, but a policy that I supported.

Beyond that, university insurance did not extend to anyone not a university 
employee and not enrolled in a course.  I am not going to assume liability for 
any person on a field trip without the university having my back.  It happens 
that of the various persons who asked me over the years about taking a child, 
there were as many men as women.  Most of them wanted to take the child to 
expose the child to the environment we were investigating.

There is nothing in any posts I've seen with one exception that makes any 
assumption about whether a woman is able to make reasonable decisions 
concerning her family.  I have seen some posts (and I provided a similar 
perspective) suggesting that taking an infant into such a harsh environment, 
and with the parent focusing on other activities as would usually be necessary 
when working in the field, might not be the best thing to do.

I wish I had had broader, and more cautionary advice concerning a good many 
things I did over the years.  I might have searched for better alternatives.

I did see one post where the author said that poor planning, getting pregnant 
at an inopportune time, or something like that was perhaps at fault, and that 
people are responsible not to let their personal life interfere with 
obligations to a lab or something of that nature.  I responded to that post, 
rather harshly, that the poster's sexism seemed to be showing, and that perhaps 
he wanted only a June Cleaver model of parenthood to prevail.  I don't know 
whether the post was dropped by the moderator for being overly critical of 
another poster.  But, I've said it again here, and we'll see.

David McNeely


 Carolyn Nersesian  wrote: 
> I could be way off-base here, but it seems like the most prevalent 
> undercurrent in this thread is the implicit assumption that Simone or any 
> woman (given that this issue clearly affects woman more than men) is not 
> capable of making a well-informed and responsible decision regarding their 
> family. Over and over again I see this stream of father-knows-best 
> assumptions - from both men and woman - about what is appropriate and what is 
> not appropriate (with some exceptions of course). From assumptions of poor 
> planning, the child is too young, the situation is too dangerous, all the way 
> to forbidding children from be allowed on field trips.

It is unfortunate that woman have not been afforded the same luxury as men have 
had in the recent past to be awarded their own personal child care service 
through marriage. Yet they are expected to function as though this hasn't been 
a predominate career disadvantage or that their careers are not assessed 
against a bar that clearly favors a situation they don't have access too. It 
doesn't look like that kind of advantage is going to be offered to woman 
anytime soon, so perhaps it's time to re-think the entire underlying dynamic 
driving the topic. Especially because this issue seems to be framed within the 
context of an entitlement that never existed for woman and is probably not 
going to exist much longer for men. 


From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] on behalf of David L. McNeely [mcnee...@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:08 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

I originally responded only to Simone personally.   But, I now see a need for 
wider discussion.  I agree with Hal Caswell and others who have said that child 
safety is paramount.  If at all possible, another approach should be considered.

Hal, in answer to your query:  In forty years of teaching, I had a standing 
policy, supported by the institutions I worked with, that children were not 
allowed on field trips or in laboratories.   The fact that the university's 
insurance stated explicitly that its coverage only extended to such personnel 
made my refusal to allow children a little easier, but in reality, that was a 
convenient excuse for my position.   In all that time, I only had 4 students 
who questioned the policy, and each of those four eventually recognized the 
basis, and found other ways to participate in the field trips.  Once, two 
parents who were in different sections of the same ecology course worked out an 
arrangement whereby they traded child care duties.

All this is easier in institutions that have on c

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Wayne Tyson]

All of this discussion is mostly heartening, but a certain amount (far less 
that I expected--that's a good example of why I like to be found wrong) of 
self-righteousness has inevitably leaked through. It would be an 
interersting student project (perhaps an opportunity to integrate sociology 
with ecology?) to analyze the responses and summarize the elements into a 
paper or even a book.


It seems primary to me that keeping an infant with the mother (and as much 
as possible with the father or a loving man). "Bonding" may be far more 
important than we suppose, and nursing, except when it is medically 
inadvisable, is superior to "formula." It seems that is is at least possible 
that the "extra" contact required by the extreme environment might have 
superior effects on the child and its development compared with more 
"controlled" environments where it is possible (and therefore tempting) to 
reduce said contact. Might we ask, for example, the Northern Sami and others 
who live in extreme environments for tips in this regard.


WT 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Lis Castillo Nelis]

I reassert that advice concerning the child’s well being was unsolicited in the 
original post.  If a colleague over 50 asked for gear recommendations, no one 
would have recommended that they avoid fieldwork because of the risk for heart 
attack.  We assume they are intelligent enough to take care of themselves.

We need similar assumptions for parents.  The original poster probably already 
spoke with their pediatrician.  They may even have a medically trained 
babysitter joining them at the top of the mountain. We don’t know and it isn’t 
our business.  Instead of assuming the worst of each other, how about assuming 
the best?


In the future, if we are concerned about someone’s life choices, a short email 
directly to the sender may be the better option.  Many young researchers read 
this forum.  We need to be careful what message we send out.  This thread 
showed some terrific support for families in science.  Unfortunately, it also 
showed that many colleagues doubt parenting decisions of others, and that some 
colleagues think parents can’t be good scientists at all.  If we want to 
diversify science we need to accept those who make decisions different from our 
own.


Good luck to all parents out there who choose to take your kids with you into 
the field!


Lis



Lisa Castillo Nelis
NSF Postdoctoral Fellow 
Stanford University
Gordon Laboratory
Department of Biology
Gilbert Building, Room 109
371 Serra Mall
Stanford, CA 94305-5020

Phone: 650-725-6791
Email: lne...@stanford.edu
Home page: http://www.stanford.edu/~lnelis/

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Claudia Ford]

Good one Todd, thanks for nimbly addressing that heavy dose of sexist
thinking.

To the issue of "child safety."  We throw around that phrase as if it is a
neutral, objective term, and we are all in assumed agreement on what that
means.  Not so in a society where schools are requiring children to wear
bike helmets on the school jungle gym.  Our tolerance for and perception of
risk is cultural.  Cesarean Rates US 32 percent, Netherlands 14 percent.
There is no one standard of safety.  That is why we attempt to leave some
decisions to the judgment of the person making the decision on their own or
their dependent's behalf.

What if we privileged communities of trained and in-training
scientists/academics, that supported all sorts of work/life balance, for
all stages of a "normal" professional lifespan, gender, age, and disability
issues notwithstanding, and it became the norm for us to commit to each
other and not just to our data collection.  We would just get on with it
when women or men needed to rearrange their schedules, and our labs and
fields and classrooms would be richer for such a commitment.
Claudia

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Todd Doherty  wrote:

> So we should just PLAN a life dedicated solely to the pursuit of
> uninterrupted data? Our guiding principle as scientists should be to
> compromise LIFE or anything else that might get in the way of the most
> prolific output of pure science? Eh, no thanks, I didn't sign up for
> that...what next, vows of celibacy and self-flagellation ?
>
> Personally, I think the people who live an active and rich life outside of
> the academic/science construct tend to be the ones who have the most to
> offer science and society as a whole - we should all be more than the sum
> of the questions we seek to answer in our scientific lives.
>
> "This could happen for both sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with
> women in the US" - the deck is stacked against women in the
> academic/science construct and is continually perpetuated by comments like
> this. Here is a pretty fundamental idea, and I think we all got it in intro
> Biology  - parental investment is inherently skewed in human reproduction,
> so how is it surprising that women tend to be affected by it more?
> Socially, we have further expanded the expectation of a mother's role while
> simultaneously discriminating them for fulfilling that role.
>
> We can start to address the gap by not jumping at every chance to say how
> "women/kids/marriage are problematic to science". Sounds like the Good Ol'
> Boy's club using the same tagline under a different banner. Some of our
> enlightened colleagues are using the same ill-logic that Good Ol' Boys have
> been using for centuries to keep women from.voting, having any sort of
> job other than housewife, having equal rights, serving in the clergy,
> owning land etc.
>
> my .02, FWIW
>
> Sincerely,
> A single, childless, adult male who is amazed by the emotional and mental
> tenacity and fortitude of women/mothers who keep jumping in the snake pit
> and proving the Good Ol' Boys wrong
>
> P.S. - a big shout out to any man or woman taking their kids in the field!!
> i was on skis about the same time i learned to walk, and I was a backpacker
> baby turned wilderness nut for life - thanks Mom and Dad!  How can anyone
> criticize or even question others for fostering a love for nature and
> science in kids at every opportunity possible? Isn't that the whole point?
> (at least it is for me) Science should not be a selfish undertaking; it's
> meant to be shared and augment life, not replace it.
>
>
>
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:
> > ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael E. Welker
> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:39 AM
> > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?
> >
> > I think that the issue is PLANNING. So science should be compromised
> > because of your desire to have children? Slightly different twist to the
> > discussion but . if you are doing a field project you should plan on
> > being there for your committed time frame i.e. don't get pregnant. I have
> > taken over work on a couple of field projects because the woman had to
> > leave for similar reasons i.e. getting married and/or pregnant. That is
> > problematic in terms of down time to get a new field tech = missed data.
> > Also field techniques maybe altered due to new person thus data could be
> > compromised. There are other issues here that need to be considered as
> > well. For instance, taking a position from others and then backing out
> for
> > personal reasons midway through the project. This could happen for both
> > sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with women in the US. Just
> > another thought.
> >
> > Mike Welker
> > El Paso, TX
> >
> >
> >  - Original Message -
> >  From: Silvia Secchi
> >  To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
> >  Sent

[ECOLOG-L] Job posting: Forest Ecology Field Technician

[Jens Stevens]

We are seeking a summer field-crew member for forest vegetation sampling in
the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. Project is investigating effect
of fuel treatments on post-wildfire vegetation dynamics. This position is
based in South Lake Tahoe, CA, with housing provided. Crew is expected to
travel for up to 10 days at a time to field sites throughout eastern California.

For additional project and application information, please see announcement
below.

POSITION DESCRIPTION

School/Dept: University of California-Davis, Department of Plant Sciences

Position: Forest Ecology Field Technician

Position Details:   
We are seeking a summer field-crew member for forest vegetation sampling in
the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. Project is investigating effect
of fuel treatments on post-wildfire vegetation dynamics. This position is
based in South Lake Tahoe, CA, with housing provided. Crew is expected to
travel for up to 10 days at a time to field sites throughout eastern California.

Job Summary:
Under direction, carry out forest stand structure and vegetation sampling,
enter and quality-control the data, describe the trends in the condition of
the vegetation sampled, and report the findings orally and in writing.

Job duration: Early June through September, 2012.

Approximate salary: Approximately $20/hr, plus accommodations 

Essential Responsibilities: 
70% FIELD WORK 
- Relocate existing field sites using map, compass, and GPS 
- Work with other field crew members to identify sample locations at new sites 
- At all sites, sample stand structure and record fire severity data using
point-quadrat methods 
- Identify all vascular plant species in plots at the sample locations, and
record cover of each species and the number of seedlings of tree and shrub
species. Collect voucher specimens of herbaceous species that cannot be
identified and, as necessary, work with herbarium staff to identify these.
- Make environmental measurements such as canopy cover, PAR, soil moisture.
30% DATA ENTRY 
- Assure the completeness of the data collected, enter data into a database,
check for errors of data recording and data entry, and ensure data are
regularly backed up to servers 
- Keep field notebook including comments and observations, and summarize and
report.

Physical Demands:   
- Strenuous hiking (up to 10 miles a day) in rugged terrain carrying gear
weighing up to 40 lbs.   

Work Environment:   
- Work in a variety of climatic conditions (sun, hot, cold, rain and snow). 
- Overnight travel and extended stay for up to 10 days. 
- Work long hours in remote locations. Camp in primitive locations without
running water or toilet. 
- Valid driver's license to travel to field site.

Minimum Qualifications: 
- BS/BA in life science or related field. 
- Experience working in remote locations. 
- Experience with vegetation sampling methods. 
- Plant taxonomy or field botany coursework and/or experience.

Preferred Qualifications for Selection: 
- Familiarity with the flora of mountain forests. Skill in identifying
California plants.
- Experience or coursework analyzing contrasts and trends in vegetation or
forestry data. 
- MS/MA in ecology, botany, range science or similar field.

To apply:   
-Send resume, 1-pg cover letter describing relevant experience and
qualifications, and list of three references, by email to
jtstevens[at]ucdavis.edu with heading “2012 Forest Ecology Field Technician” 
-Deadline to apply is April 23rd, 2012
-UC Davis is an equal opportunity employer

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[malcolm McCallum]

Unsolicited?

This was a post to a public forum on which the poster has requested
advice on what equipment she/he should consider for his/her infant.
Is this a female?  I know men and women with this first name so I am
not sure.  But, apparently some of you either know or have concluded
such.

Anyone who has ever done anything in decision making knows that among
the alternatives available is the "no action" choice.  Before you
decide what equipment to use, you need to evaluate whether it is the
best option based on your available alternatives, again one of which
is to not bring the child.

As for this turning into some kind of a male-female debate, the issue
has no berring on sexual identity.
Men and women do bring their kids into the field, we have established
that in this thread.  Both men and
women are capable of finding a short-term or longterm baby sitter or
relative.  I just discussed this with one of the medical researchers
on my floor and his advice regarding what equipment wasdon't bring
the child in that environment.  Some have stated that infants are more
robust than we think.  3 mo olds do not have lax thermoregulation and
immunity.

Also, I'm a parent too.  I am also the oldest of 7 children whom I
helped raise.  I've seen more different ways that a kid can get
injured or sick than you can shake a stick at.

Wild animals, harsh weather conditions, disease vectors, and alpine
slopes are bad bedfellows for a person with a n infant strapped to
their back.  If you MUST do it, you she/he has done the right thing by
asking for advice here.  However, evaluate VERY carefully whether this
is your need or a desire.

Would you bring an infant into a metal plant?  A chemical factory?  A
hog barn?  The habitats in a zoo?  How about a sewage plant?  How
about the walk in freezer of a restaurant?

Again, if you have no choice, be as careful as you can be.  But do not
discount the risk involved because if something does happen, you will
live a life of regret.





On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Lis Castillo Nelis  wrote:
> What I don’t understand about this thread is why people are so comfortable 
> giving unsolicited advice on someone else’s life decisions.  Simone didn’t 
> ask for advice on whether or not to take her child to the field with her, she 
> asked for tools to do so well.  She has doubtless assessed the risks and 
> benefits already or she wouldn't have asked for additional tools.
>
> Simone and other scientists with children are mature adults capable of making 
> their own decisions about balancing family with research.  We should let them 
> get on with it without comments that make them feel unwelcome in our ranks.  
> Lack of family friendliness is one of the reasons for female attrition from 
> science, lets not add to it here.
>
> Good luck Simone!
>
> Lis
>
>
> Lisa Castillo Nelis
> NSF Postdoctoral Fellow
> Stanford University
> Gordon Laboratory
> Department of Biology
> Gilbert Building, Room 109
> 371 Serra Mall
> Stanford, CA 94305-5020
>
> Phone: 650-725-6791
> Email: lne...@stanford.edu
> Home page: http://www.stanford.edu/~lnelis/



-- 
Malcolm L. McCallum
Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry
School of Biological Sciences
University of Missouri at Kansas City

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Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Michael E. Welker]

Did I say that women shouldn't be working in this field? No I didn't. I knew 
folks would get a "tude" and twist what I said. Further, I said it could happen 
to either sex. I have just seen, from personal experience, it happen primarily 
with women. I have never seen a male quit a project because of marriage or 
pregnancy. I have seen men quit projects for other reasons that made less 
sense. I also figured everyone would know that I was excluding unintended 
situations. But again y'all have to knit pick every possible scenario that 
misses my original points. "Advisors who do not make room for the needs of a 
new mother and baby are problematic in my view" could easily be flipped to say 
"Field techs and grad students who don't take their research seriously are 
problematic in my view." There are two or more sides to everything. There is 
extreme competition for field positions and when someone is not serious or 
doesn't plan well it can mess things up for the researcher, the research and 
the other folks who need work in this field. That is all I am saying. My post 
was not addressing the original post but an issue related to the original post 
that I have seen in my experience. It is about doing good and correct science 
not anyone's personal issues or sex. It is like Bill Maher always says "I am 
not sexist. I am not lambasting Sarah Palin because she is a woman but because 
she is stupid." Good day.

Mike

  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kerns, Becky -FS 
  To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU 
  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 1:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?


  I was wondering when this point would be made.  Maybe we should not even open 
these jobs to women!

  And I thought we were making progress.

  Becky

  Becky K. Kerns, Ph.D., Team Leader/Research Ecologist
  Ecosystem Dynamics and Environmental Change
  Threat Characterization and Management Program, PNW Research Station
  3200 SW Jefferson Way, Corvallis, OR 97331
  541.750.7497


  -Original Message-
  From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael E. Welker
  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:39 AM
  To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
  Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

  I think that the issue is PLANNING. So science should be compromised because 
of your desire to have children? Slightly different twist to the discussion but 
. if you are doing a field project you should plan on being there for your 
committed time frame i.e. don't get pregnant. I have taken over work on a 
couple of field projects because the woman had to leave for similar reasons 
i.e. getting married and/or pregnant. That is problematic in terms of down time 
to get a new field tech = missed data. Also field techniques maybe altered due 
to new person thus data could be compromised. There are other issues here that 
need to be considered as well. For instance, taking a position from others and 
then backing out for personal reasons midway through the project. This could 
happen for both sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with women in the US. 
Just another thought.

  Mike Welker
  El Paso, TX


- Original Message -
From: Silvia Secchi
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?


Actually, I think the real issue is who is advising Simone to do this
and thinks it is a good idea. My PhD and postodoctoral advisers had
kids and were realistic in terms of their expectations. Now that I am
on the other side, I try to do the same with my students and postdocs.
At three months, you could have a colicky baby or still be recovering
from a c-section. Advisers who do not make room for the needs of a new
mother and baby are problematic in my view - then again, I am probably
biased because I am Italian, and in Europe maternity leaves are
serious business.

Silvia
--
Silvia Secchi
Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of
Agribusiness Economics
Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program
Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410
Southern Illinois University
1205 Lincoln Drive
Carbondale, Illinois 62901
Phone:(618)453-1714
Fax: (618)453-1708

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Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[David M. Lawrence]

Frankly, Hal, I think you miss much of the point.  Our society has 
become so risk-averse that -- even in the few decades since I was a kid 
-- we have begun to avoid too much that is normal and healthy and safe.  
All of these contributions that you dismiss as irrelevant only appear 
irrelevant to you because they likely conflict with your preconceived 
(and arguably paternalistic and outdated) notions.


I have experience as a hiker and researcher with LOTS of mountains, in 
the east and west -- and north, and even some in the tropics.  I am 
inclined to trust Simone to make rational judgments about when and where 
to take the infant (which I suspect will be older than 3 months before 
she goes) in the the field.  I suspect she knows that "Child safety 
trumps all else" as do the rest of us whose opinions you so readily 
disregard.  It is her child, and I suspect she takes his or her safety a 
hell of a lot more seriously than you can begin to appreciate.


Later,

Dave

On 4/9/2012 2:19 PM, Hal Caswell wrote:

Dear People,

This discussion is all very inspiring, but much of it misses the 
point[s].  While Simone didn't say exactly what mountains she is 
working in, I assumed from her location that she was speaking of the 
White Mountains in New Hampshire. I have some experience with those 
mountains, and they are notorious for difficult terrain, uncertain 
footing, and unpredictable weather in every month of the year.  
Especially in the alpine zone (or to get to the alpine zone), where 
Simone says she works.  Hence my advice (nothing I have heard here has 
changed that) that a 3-month old infant is too young.  The happy 
stories of taking young children "for a hike" may or may not be 
relevant to Simone's question, depending on what kind of a hike you 
are speaking of.


Also not relevant are the discussions of the [very great] rewards of 
sharing one's scientific activities with one's children and the 
responses they can give.


Also very much not relevant are the invocations of how our ancestors 
lived, and gave birth, and raised children in the wild, unless you 
want to also bring into the discussion the changes over time in infant 
mortality rates.


Child's safety trumps all else.

I would be very much interested in hearing from other faculty about 
how they deal with the safety and liability issues arising from taking 
children in the field, in the care of students under their 
supervision. I suspect that safety concerns in places like chemistry 
labs, would immediately rule out the presence of small children there, 
but field work may (sometimes) invoke different images.


(Parenthetically, I don't usually supervise students doing field work, 
so the issue hasn't come up for me.  Most of the students I know who 
do field work do so on oceanographic research vessels, where children 
are definitely not going to be taken along.)


So, to faculty, how do you deal with student safety while working in 
the field?


Hal Caswell

Senior Scientist

Biology Department MS-34
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Woods Hole MA 02543
USA



--
--
 David M. Lawrence| Home:  (804) 559-9786
 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax:   (804) 559-9787
 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: d...@fuzzo.com
 USA  | http:  http://fuzzo.com
--

"All drains lead to the ocean."  -- Gill, Finding Nemo

"We have met the enemy and he is us."  -- Pogo

"No trespassing
 4/17 of a haiku"  --  Richard Brautigan

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Todd Doherty]

So we should just PLAN a life dedicated solely to the pursuit of
uninterrupted data? Our guiding principle as scientists should be to
compromise LIFE or anything else that might get in the way of the most
prolific output of pure science? Eh, no thanks, I didn't sign up for
that...what next, vows of celibacy and self-flagellation ?

Personally, I think the people who live an active and rich life outside of
the academic/science construct tend to be the ones who have the most to
offer science and society as a whole - we should all be more than the sum
of the questions we seek to answer in our scientific lives.

"This could happen for both sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with
women in the US" - the deck is stacked against women in the
academic/science construct and is continually perpetuated by comments like
this. Here is a pretty fundamental idea, and I think we all got it in intro
Biology  - parental investment is inherently skewed in human reproduction,
so how is it surprising that women tend to be affected by it more?
Socially, we have further expanded the expectation of a mother's role while
simultaneously discriminating them for fulfilling that role.

We can start to address the gap by not jumping at every chance to say how
"women/kids/marriage are problematic to science". Sounds like the Good Ol'
Boy's club using the same tagline under a different banner. Some of our
enlightened colleagues are using the same ill-logic that Good Ol' Boys have
been using for centuries to keep women from.voting, having any sort of
job other than housewife, having equal rights, serving in the clergy,
owning land etc.

my .02, FWIW

Sincerely,
A single, childless, adult male who is amazed by the emotional and mental
tenacity and fortitude of women/mothers who keep jumping in the snake pit
and proving the Good Ol' Boys wrong

P.S. - a big shout out to any man or woman taking their kids in the field!!
i was on skis about the same time i learned to walk, and I was a backpacker
baby turned wilderness nut for life - thanks Mom and Dad!  How can anyone
criticize or even question others for fostering a love for nature and
science in kids at every opportunity possible? Isn't that the whole point?
(at least it is for me) Science should not be a selfish undertaking; it's
meant to be shared and augment life, not replace it.



>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:
> ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael E. Welker
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:39 AM
> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?
>
> I think that the issue is PLANNING. So science should be compromised
> because of your desire to have children? Slightly different twist to the
> discussion but . if you are doing a field project you should plan on
> being there for your committed time frame i.e. don't get pregnant. I have
> taken over work on a couple of field projects because the woman had to
> leave for similar reasons i.e. getting married and/or pregnant. That is
> problematic in terms of down time to get a new field tech = missed data.
> Also field techniques maybe altered due to new person thus data could be
> compromised. There are other issues here that need to be considered as
> well. For instance, taking a position from others and then backing out for
> personal reasons midway through the project. This could happen for both
> sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with women in the US. Just
> another thought.
>
> Mike Welker
> El Paso, TX
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Silvia Secchi
>  To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
>  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:44 AM
>  Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?
>
>
>  Actually, I think the real issue is who is advising Simone to do this
>  and thinks it is a good idea. My PhD and postodoctoral advisers had
>  kids and were realistic in terms of their expectations. Now that I am
>  on the other side, I try to do the same with my students and postdocs.
>  At three months, you could have a colicky baby or still be recovering
>  from a c-section. Advisers who do not make room for the needs of a new
>  mother and baby are problematic in my view - then again, I am probably
>  biased because I am Italian, and in Europe maternity leaves are
>  serious business.
>
>  Silvia
>  --
>  Silvia Secchi
>  Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of
>  Agribusiness Economics
>  Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program
>  Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410
>  Southern Illinois University
>  1205 Lincoln Drive
>  Carbondale, Illinois 62901
>  Phone:(618)453-1714
>  Fax: (618)453-1708
>
>  Vous avez beau ne pas vous occuper de politique, la politique s'occupe
>  de vous tout de même.
>  Charles Forbes de Montalembert
>
>  The way we organize the modern American university fragments our
>  knowledge badly. Not only are we divided by discipline, but

[ECOLOG-L] Call for poster abstracts & scholarship applications - Conference on Public Participation in Scientific Research, August 4-5, 2012

[Jennifer Lynn Shirk]

Registration, as well as a call for poster abstracts and scholarship 
applications, is now open for the Conference on Public Participation in 
Scientific Research 
(citizen science, volunteer monitoring, community-based research, crowd science)

August 4th and 5th, 2012 in Portland, Oregon

$30 with registration for ESA meeting, or $95 for this event only

Poster abstracts and scholarship applications accepted through May 4th, 2012.

With the rapid growth and innovation of public participation in scientific 
research 
(PPSR),
 researchers and practitioners are in need of a venue for sharing insights 
across projects and fields of study. This landmark event will convene science 
researchers, project leaders, educators, technology specialists, evaluators, 
and others from across many disciplines (including astronomy, molecular 
biology, human and environmental health, and ecology) to discuss advancing the 
field of PPSR.

The PPSR Conference is being held in conjunction with the annual meeting of the 
Ecological Society of America (ESA), a venue that 
has long been supportive of citizen science and that welcomes relevant insights 
from diverse fields.

The conference aims to engage a broad range of participants through a call for 
posters, open 
now. Those 
in need of financial support to attend are encouraged to apply for 
scholarships.
 Go to 
CitizenScience.org/conference/2012
 now for more details.

May 4, 2012 deadline for poster abstracts and scholarship applications

June 14, 2012 deadline for ESA early bird registration rates

We look forward to seeing you in Portland!

Conference Co-Organizers:

Meg Domroese, Conference Coordinator
Heidi Ballard, University of California – Davis
Rick Bonney, Cornell Lab of Ornithology
Tony DeFalco, Consultant, Equity and Sustainability
Abraham Miller-Rushing, National Park Service
Sarah Newman, National Ecological Observatory Network (NEON)
Jennifer Shirk, CitizenScience.org, Cornell Lab of 
Ornithology
Jake Weltzin, U.S. Geological Survey, USA National Phenology Network
Alison Young, California Academy of Sciences


~~Jennifer

Jennifer Shirk
www.citizenscience.org

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[David L. McNeely]

I originally responded only to Simone personally.   But, I now see a need for 
wider discussion.  I agree with Hal Caswell and others who have said that child 
safety is paramount.  If at all possible, another approach should be considered.

Hal, in answer to your query:  In forty years of teaching, I had a standing 
policy, supported by the institutions I worked with, that children were not 
allowed on field trips or in laboratories.   The fact that the university's 
insurance stated explicitly that its coverage only extended to such personnel 
made my refusal to allow children a little easier, but in reality, that was a 
convenient excuse for my position.   In all that time, I only had 4 students 
who questioned the policy, and each of those four eventually recognized the 
basis, and found other ways to participate in the field trips.  Once, two 
parents who were in different sections of the same ecology course worked out an 
arrangement whereby they traded child care duties.

All this is easier in institutions that have on campus child care facilities.  
While Dad goes to school, junior can too.

I am a parent and now a grandparent.  I understand the needs that prompt folks 
to want to have their children with them.  But I also understand the concerns 
for child health and safety.  Taking a hike or a camping trip is quite 
different from working in the field (though I have had colleagues over the 
years who sometimes did not understand that).  And I must acknowledge that as 
my daughter grew older I did take her into the field with me. When I first 
started doing so, at least I was accompanied by her mother, who could devote 
more time to supervising her than I could.  She is now an ecologist, a faculty 
member, and a mother.  She has not taken her child into the field for work, but 
I expect she will when he grows older and more self sufficient if she is 
engaged in activities where she can provide adequate supervision, or if the 
child's father is able to be there and assist.

I also remember well the first overnight backpacking we did with her, when she 
was two.  I carried my daughter and a one quarter share of our equipment and 
supplies.  My wife, my daughter's mother, carried everything else.  We didn't 
do another with her until she was five, and we backpacked on trails where she 
could walk on her own.

Sometimes we simply have to make compromises that are not our first choice in 
order to fulfill all our responsibilities in life successfully.

David McNeely

 Hal Caswell  wrote: 
> Dear People,
> 
> This discussion is all very inspiring, but much of it misses the 
> point[s].  While Simone didn't say exactly what mountains she is working 
> in, I assumed from her location that she was speaking of the White 
> Mountains in New Hampshire. I have some experience with those mountains, 
> and they are notorious for difficult terrain, uncertain footing, and 
> unpredictable weather in every month of the year.  Especially in the 
> alpine zone (or to get to the alpine zone), where Simone says she 
> works.  Hence my advice (nothing I have heard here has changed that) 
> that a 3-month old infant is too young.  The happy stories of taking 
> young children "for a hike" may or may not be relevant to Simone's 
> question, depending on what kind of a hike you are speaking of.
> 
> Also not relevant are the discussions of the [very great] rewards of 
> sharing one's scientific activities with one's children and the 
> responses they can give.
> 
> Also very much not relevant are the invocations of how our ancestors 
> lived, and gave birth, and raised children in the wild, unless you want 
> to also bring into the discussion the changes over time in infant 
> mortality rates.
> 
> Child's safety trumps all else.
> 
> I would be very much interested in hearing from other faculty about how 
> they deal with the safety and liability issues arising from taking 
> children in the field, in the care of students under their supervision. 
> I suspect that safety concerns in places like chemistry labs, would 
> immediately rule out the presence of small children there, but field 
> work may (sometimes) invoke different images.
> 
> (Parenthetically, I don't usually supervise students doing field work, 
> so the issue hasn't come up for me.  Most of the students I know who do 
> field work do so on oceanographic research vessels, where children are 
> definitely not going to be taken along.)
> 
> So, to faculty, how do you deal with student safety while working in the 
> field?
> 
> Hal Caswell
> 
> Senior Scientist
> 
> Biology Department MS-34
> Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
> Woods Hole MA 02543
> USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/9/12 11:16 AM, Sarah Jack Hinners wrote:
> > OK, back to Simone's original question I didn't actually take my babies 
> > into the field with me, but I took my firstborn on his first hike when he 
> > was 13 days old and many many times thereafter.
> > 1. Front carriers: Front carr

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Kerns, Becky -FS]

I was wondering when this point would be made.  Maybe we should not even open 
these jobs to women!

And I thought we were making progress.

Becky

Becky K. Kerns, Ph.D., Team Leader/Research Ecologist
Ecosystem Dynamics and Environmental Change
Threat Characterization and Management Program, PNW Research Station
3200 SW Jefferson Way, Corvallis, OR 97331
541.750.7497


-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael E. Welker
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:39 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

I think that the issue is PLANNING. So science should be compromised because of 
your desire to have children? Slightly different twist to the discussion but 
. if you are doing a field project you should plan on being there for your 
committed time frame i.e. don't get pregnant. I have taken over work on a 
couple of field projects because the woman had to leave for similar reasons 
i.e. getting married and/or pregnant. That is problematic in terms of down time 
to get a new field tech = missed data. Also field techniques maybe altered due 
to new person thus data could be compromised. There are other issues here that 
need to be considered as well. For instance, taking a position from others and 
then backing out for personal reasons midway through the project. This could 
happen for both sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with women in the US. 
Just another thought.

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX


  - Original Message -
  From: Silvia Secchi
  To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?


  Actually, I think the real issue is who is advising Simone to do this
  and thinks it is a good idea. My PhD and postodoctoral advisers had
  kids and were realistic in terms of their expectations. Now that I am
  on the other side, I try to do the same with my students and postdocs.
  At three months, you could have a colicky baby or still be recovering
  from a c-section. Advisers who do not make room for the needs of a new
  mother and baby are problematic in my view - then again, I am probably
  biased because I am Italian, and in Europe maternity leaves are
  serious business.

  Silvia
  --
  Silvia Secchi
  Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of
  Agribusiness Economics
  Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program
  Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410
  Southern Illinois University
  1205 Lincoln Drive
  Carbondale, Illinois 62901
  Phone:(618)453-1714
  Fax: (618)453-1708

  Vous avez beau ne pas vous occuper de politique, la politique s'occupe
  de vous tout de même.
  Charles Forbes de Montalembert

  The way we organize the modern American university fragments our
  knowledge badly. Not only are we divided by discipline, but we are
  divided by the methods that scholars use.
  Elinor Ostrom





This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for 
the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the 
use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and 
subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have 
received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email 
immediately.

[ECOLOG-L] PhD position - population monitoring using non-invasive genetic sampling

[Lisette Waits]

PhD Graduate Project Opportunity
 
University of Idaho
 
 
We are currently recruiting a highly motivated PhD student to begin in the
summer of 2012 in the Fish and Wildlife Department at the University of
Idaho.  The project is fully funded by the U.S. Department of Defense and
will design and implement monitoring programs for Sonoran pronghorn and
coyotes in southern Arizona based on combining non-invasive genetic sampling
with capture-recapture modeling.  The project will involve developing a
spatio-temporal sampling design for collection of fecal DNA, field sampling,
laboratory genetic analyses, and mark-recapture modeling. Beyond this, the
project offers the opportunity to develop other research topics including,
but not limited to, the study of predator prey dynamics, metapopulation
dynamics, and population viability.  The project is a collaborative effort
with U.S. Department of Defense, USFWS, as well as state and university
biologists.  Graduate stipend is ~$20K/year and will also include payment of
tuition and fees.
 
We are seeking applicants who have obtained a Master¹s degree in wildlife
sciences, natural resources, conservation biology or a related field.
Applicants should have the ability to develop independent research avenues,
have strong quantitative skills and have a demonstrated ability to publish
research findings.  Because some fieldwork will occur on U.S. military
installations, applicants must be U.S. citizens.
 
Interested applicants should send CV/resume, cover letter/statement of
purpose, transcripts, GRE scores plus names and contact info for three
references.  Please note that we do not need official transcripts and GRE
scores at this stage.  If you are selected to join our research group, then
we will ask you to send all official documents and 3 letters of
recommendation to the University of Idaho graduate school applications
office.Electronic (email) submission of applications is encouraged
(jho...@uidaho.edu) but mail is also fine.   Review of applications will
begin April 23, 2012 and continue until the position is filled.  If you
previously applied for a similar position in Dec2011/Jan 2012, your
application has been retained and will still be considered.
 
For more information contact Drs. Lisette Waits (lwa...@uidaho.edu) or Jon
Horne (jho...@uidaho.edu)
 
 


-- 
Lisette Waits, PHD
Professor
Fish and Wildlife Resources
Center for Research on Invasive Species and Small Populations
Laboratory for Conservation and Ecological Genetics
University of Idaho
PO Box 441136
Moscow, ID 83844-1136
Phone: (208) 885 7823
Fax: (208) 885 9080
lwa...@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/cnr/fishwild/lisettewaits
http://www.cnr.uidaho.edu/crissp
http://www.cnr.uidaho.edu/lecg/
http://www.cals.uidaho.edu/igert2/

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Hal Caswell]

Dear People,

This discussion is all very inspiring, but much of it misses the 
point[s].  While Simone didn't say exactly what mountains she is working 
in, I assumed from her location that she was speaking of the White 
Mountains in New Hampshire. I have some experience with those mountains, 
and they are notorious for difficult terrain, uncertain footing, and 
unpredictable weather in every month of the year.  Especially in the 
alpine zone (or to get to the alpine zone), where Simone says she 
works.  Hence my advice (nothing I have heard here has changed that) 
that a 3-month old infant is too young.  The happy stories of taking 
young children "for a hike" may or may not be relevant to Simone's 
question, depending on what kind of a hike you are speaking of.


Also not relevant are the discussions of the [very great] rewards of 
sharing one's scientific activities with one's children and the 
responses they can give.


Also very much not relevant are the invocations of how our ancestors 
lived, and gave birth, and raised children in the wild, unless you want 
to also bring into the discussion the changes over time in infant 
mortality rates.


Child's safety trumps all else.

I would be very much interested in hearing from other faculty about how 
they deal with the safety and liability issues arising from taking 
children in the field, in the care of students under their supervision. 
I suspect that safety concerns in places like chemistry labs, would 
immediately rule out the presence of small children there, but field 
work may (sometimes) invoke different images.


(Parenthetically, I don't usually supervise students doing field work, 
so the issue hasn't come up for me.  Most of the students I know who do 
field work do so on oceanographic research vessels, where children are 
definitely not going to be taken along.)


So, to faculty, how do you deal with student safety while working in the 
field?


Hal Caswell

Senior Scientist

Biology Department MS-34
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Woods Hole MA 02543
USA




On 4/9/12 11:16 AM, Sarah Jack Hinners wrote:

OK, back to Simone's original question I didn't actually take my babies 
into the field with me, but I took my firstborn on his first hike when he was 
13 days old and many many times thereafter.
1. Front carriers: Front carriers allow you to take a baby pretty much 
anywhere, snug, with their head supported. The carrier I had (I think it was a 
Baby Bjorn) had a pretty thick layer of padding between me and the baby, so I 
can't imagine him ever getting wet from my sweat, but he was close and small 
enough that I could zip my jacket (a size too big for just me) around us both 
if it started to rain. On longer hikes, I carried a backpack as well, with 
diapers, blankets, etc. So you've got a baby on the front and backpack for gear 
on the back. Not super-fun, but doable if you're determined.
2. The question that I'm stuck on is what to do with baby once you're up there. 
If it's cold and wet, you're going to want to keep her on you, but can you do 
your field work that way? I'm imagining one of those little portable baby 
shelters and lots of blankets but that 's no good if it's windy...
3. Once baby is bigger (at least 6 months and sitting up on her own) you can 
switch to a baby backpack, which can carry gear and baby.  Ours is a German 
brand (Dieter or something). Definitely try on lots of backpacks because some 
are NOT comfortable, and what's comfortable for one person may be torture for 
another. I also know lots of people with Kelty backpacks too, but I never found 
them comfortable. By that age, you'll have to look out for a small mobile 
person when you're up there doing your field work and you will get less done.
4. Diapers: I used cloth and I always just carried a couple of big ziplock bags 
in my backpack for the dirties and wipes. I think disposable would be better in 
your case, as they will wick the moisture away from baby's skin better.
5. Keeping warm and dry: lots of changes of clothes. Fortunately, you can carry 
about 3 changes of clothes for a baby that size in a space about the size of a 
grapefruit. I wouldn't use wool - it will itch a baby's skin. But there's lots 
of cozy fleece baby clothes out there. And a blanket for if she's really cold.
I'd like to support Dave's (I think) comment here - for ALL of our evolutionary 
history, women have had to give birth and then get up and keep going . The best 
place for a small baby to be is close to her mother. If her mother happens to 
be climbing mountains, baby doesn't care. She's warm, she's got mom close, and 
the milk is right there. The bigger the baby gets, the harder it is to get 
things done - small babies can be toted pretty much anywhere and just sleep 
through it. And being physically active 3 months after giving birth is how you 
get back into shape, as long as you listen to your body and take it slow. 
(Taking it slow will reduce the sweating issue 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Michael E. Welker]

I think that the issue is PLANNING. So science should be compromised because of 
your desire to have children? Slightly different twist to the discussion but 
. if you are doing a field project you should plan on being there for your 
committed time frame i.e. don't get pregnant. I have taken over work on a 
couple of field projects because the woman had to leave for similar reasons 
i.e. getting married and/or pregnant. That is problematic in terms of down time 
to get a new field tech = missed data. Also field techniques maybe altered due 
to new person thus data could be compromised. There are other issues here that 
need to be considered as well. For instance, taking a position from others and 
then backing out for personal reasons midway through the project. This could 
happen for both sexes but have seen it almost exclusively with women in the US. 
Just another thought.

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX

 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Silvia Secchi 
  To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU 
  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?


  Actually, I think the real issue is who is advising Simone to do this
  and thinks it is a good idea. My PhD and postodoctoral advisers had
  kids and were realistic in terms of their expectations. Now that I am
  on the other side, I try to do the same with my students and postdocs.
  At three months, you could have a colicky baby or still be recovering
  from a c-section. Advisers who do not make room for the needs of a new
  mother and baby are problematic in my view - then again, I am probably
  biased because I am Italian, and in Europe maternity leaves are
  serious business.

  Silvia
  -- 
  Silvia Secchi
  Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of
  Agribusiness Economics
  Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program
  Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410
  Southern Illinois University
  1205 Lincoln Drive
  Carbondale, Illinois 62901
  Phone:(618)453-1714
  Fax: (618)453-1708

  Vous avez beau ne pas vous occuper de politique, la politique s'occupe
  de vous tout de même.
  Charles Forbes de Montalembert

  The way we organize the modern American university fragments our
  knowledge badly. Not only are we divided by discipline, but we are
  divided by the methods that scholars use.
  Elinor Ostrom

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Lis Castillo Nelis]

What I don’t understand about this thread is why people are so comfortable 
giving unsolicited advice on someone else’s life decisions.  Simone didn’t ask 
for advice on whether or not to take her child to the field with her, she asked 
for tools to do so well.  She has doubtless assessed the risks and benefits 
already or she wouldn't have asked for additional tools. 

Simone and other scientists with children are mature adults capable of making 
their own decisions about balancing family with research.  We should let them 
get on with it without comments that make them feel unwelcome in our ranks.  
Lack of family friendliness is one of the reasons for female attrition from 
science, lets not add to it here.

Good luck Simone!

Lis


Lisa Castillo Nelis
NSF Postdoctoral Fellow 
Stanford University
Gordon Laboratory
Department of Biology
Gilbert Building, Room 109
371 Serra Mall
Stanford, CA 94305-5020

Phone: 650-725-6791
Email: lne...@stanford.edu
Home page: http://www.stanford.edu/~lnelis/

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Swaddle, John P]

Hi Simone.

>From personal experience I second (or third) the view that a front-held 
>carrier such as the Baby Bjorn is very effective for long hiking, climbing, 
>and fieldwork with such a young child. She'll keep warm from your own body 
>heat, you can put as many layers of any material between you and the child to 
>control sweat, and you can wear an over-sized jacket that can zip around the 
>kid if it gets rainy/windy. The backpack carriers are intended for older kids 
>that can support their own weight and you can't really bend over to pick 
>things up with the backpack carrier (child can fall out if she's too small). I 
>carried our daughter, from a very young age, all over the place in a Baby 
>Bjorn - it was her favorite place to be in many ways; and this was on long 
>steep hikes and doing some basic fieldwork. I also liked being able to see her 
>all the time - which is a reassuring element of being with a young child in a 
>more harsh environment.

As for dealing with diapers, I would recommend getting some smallish-sized 
packing bags where you can use a small foot pump to get rid of the air inside 
the bag so it packs as flat and small as possible. This not only maximizes the 
packing of the used diapers but it will also eliminate smell and leakage issues.

It's refreshing to see many posters on the forum being supportive of balancing 
family and work issues. We have a long way to go in supporting a healthy 
perspective on this balance, but long may the trend continue.

John.

_

Dr. John Swaddle
Professor, Biology
Institute for Integrative Bird Behavior Studies
College of William and Mary
Millington Hall
Landrum Drive
Williamsburg, VA 23187-8795
http://jpswad.people.wm.edu/
Tel. 757.221.2231
Fax. 757.221.6483

-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Eva-Maria Muecke
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 11:55 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

Your post was right on the spot David! Claudia and Eimy had good
comments too.

In terms of equipment, I am afraid that I am not up to date on the
newest accessories available for infants. I do agree with David that
having the right carrier is key. I used a Kelty Kids front carrier,
which had at least a few more bells and whistles on it  than the
standard front carrier. I would hope that they improved the design
even further by now. It's important that you get it fitted right -
just like a regular backpack. That will make a huge difference. I
would recommend going to an REI store (you might have done this
already). This store tends to be more progressive than other outdoor
stores and folks are usually quite creative in solving problems. They
might also have an idea for a potential moisture barrier, rain covers
etc. It's worth a shot.

I live in the Northwest (Portland, OR, area) where folks tend to be
quite outdoor oriented. The climate is also similar here to the one
you will be dealing with. So, I looked for hiking groups on Meetup
that might have insights for you. (Meetup is a online site that can be
used to organize individuals with similar interests). Here is what I
came up with:
Portland area:
http://www.meetup.com/The-Gresham-Outdoor-Mammas-Group/
Seattle area:
http://www.meetup.com/Backcountry-Betties/
http://www.meetup.com/PNWLeisureHiking/

I would suggest to contact the organizers of these groups. I am sure
they would love to help you. People in these regions are very nice and
helpful and more than willing to look outside the box.

Best wishes to you!
Eva-Maria



On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:03 AM, Simone S. Whitecloud wrote:

> I'd love to pick up some pointers on how to bring my 3 month old
> into the
> field. I work in the alpine zone, so cool temperatures, wind and
> rain are
> the issue. Any favorite gear items you found helpful? I'm already
> finding
> she is totally soaked by the time we get to the peak from my own
> sweat. Know
> where to buy wool onesies? Tips on packing out dirty diapers?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Simone Whitecloud
> PhD Candidate, McPeek Lab
> Dartmouth College

[ECOLOG-L] Job Opening: Lead Scientist, North & Central Coast Region (The Nature Conservancy, California), 5/4 deadline

[Brynn Taylor]

Job Opening: LEAD SCIENTIST - NORTH AND CENTRAL COAST REGION (The Nature 
Conservancy, CALIFORNIA)



The Lead Scientist for the North and Central Coasts Region of California 
provides conservation science leadership for The Nature Conservancy, by 
effectively managing and mentoring a team of scientists and coordinating with a 
diverse team of non-scientist conservation professionals, to ensure that the 
conservation projects, priorities, and policies planned and implemented across 
the region have robust scientific foundations and achieve the greatest possible 
conservation outcomes. S/he develops and provides standardized approaches and 
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Conservancy and partner conservation efforts on the strategies that will 
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address key conservation challenges related to sustaining biodiversity in 
natural and human-dominated landscapes. S/he supports the conservation program 
staff in activities including identification of priorities, multi-objective 
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measures of success implementation, coordination of field research 
collaboratives, communication of our work to partners, funders, and community 
members, and general science guidance.  S/he is responsible for working with 
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scientific colleagues to ensure that priority conservation science needs are 
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development of best practices to Conservancy staff and partners.

The full job description and application information can be found here: 
http://www.nature.org/aboutus/careers  Search for "Lead Scientist" or 
"California".

The application deadline is Friday, May 4, 2012.

General information about working at The Nature Conservancy is here: 
http://www.nature.org/aboutus/careers/index.htm

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Kerns, Becky -FS]

This has been a really good discussion - parents have to make these kinds of 
decisions all the time and there are no easy answers or right or wrong 
pathways.  What I see as a central issue are the expectations for performance 
we have of ourselves, and what is drilled into our heads by many advisors, 
colleagues, supervisors, leadership, institutions, agencies, granting bodies, 
etc.  These expectations are based on out-moded models of what it is possible 
to achieve - e.g. achievement and performance largely based on the values where 
everyone is supposed to be a workaholic, were work is your whole life and other 
values have no priority.  Then there is the issue that adequate funding to 
actually do quality research is getting scarcer and scarcer.  We lose excellent 
people all the time because of these completely outdated models - and much of 
these expectations might be entirely internally driven.  But you cannot do it 
all and have it all.  The people who argue that you can are most likely either 
deluding themselves on some level or they have had a highly unusual experience.

Good luck Simone, whatever you decide and however it works out, I hope that you 
have the support of your family, friends and colleagues.  And good luck finding 
good inexpensive childcare in this country

Becky

Becky K. Kerns, Ph.D., Team Leader/Research Ecologist
Ecosystem Dynamics and Environmental Change
Threat Characterization and Management Program, PNW Research Station
3200 SW Jefferson Way, Corvallis, OR 97331
541.750.7497


-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Claudia Ford
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 8:06 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

Thank you David for the perspective of a father, I wrote to Simone off line 
with practical suggestions, but there may be others contemplating the same 
issues so I repeat.  I towed four children around to global field sites (some 
pretty challenging) with me as a single mom, for thirty years.  It was a 
challenge, but also mostly good for me, my colleagues, and my (not resentful 
and incredibly grateful adults) children.  If the infant is healthy, and, for 
moms, breastfeeding, then the issues are not insurmountable.  Strap the infant 
as close to your body as possible with as few layers in between as you can 
manage.  That will ensure their heat except for the head where a light wool cap 
should be easy to find.  Use a size or so larger of your own outer gear to 
cover you both.
Carry a tarp or fold-able quick-set-up tent for those times when you have to 
take a break and need a rude shelter if you are too far from a usable vehicle.  
Don't expect that your colleagues should make allowances (like slowing down or 
taking a break or holding something), but be prepared to be surprised that some 
will be more than eager and happy to do so.

My strategy was that I never thought that my children (or me) were more fragile 
than the children of the host country I was a guest in.  True, there were a few 
things that my hosts' children were exposed to and that I maintained the 
privilege of not having to expose my own children to.  But I maintained that 
level of safety and protection was a privilege.  Most importantly It remains a 
choice on whether, when, and how to combine children and career, and I commend 
and explicitly encourage Simone for wanting to explore her options and being 
willing to seek help to do so.

Claudia

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:29 PM, David M. Lawrence  wrote:

> I wonder if we can redirect this discussion to the task at hand -- how
> to find a workable solution rather than point out all the potential
> flaws in Simone's plans?
>
> We were taking my son on hikes in the mountains of New Jersey and
> upstate New York when his neck muscles were strong enough.  He was
> probably older than three months then, but he couldn't have been much older 
> than six.
>
> This problem doesn't just affect mothers -- it affects fathers who
> choose to make similar sacrifices that women make.  I took my son to
> his first class at Columbia when he was two weeks old.  A few months
> later, my son and I were kicked out of a class we were in -- with the
> instructors permission -- by a fool dean who felt children did not belong at 
> college.
>  The problem with his backward thinking was that I started going to
> college my dad when I was eight or so.  I consider myself empirical
> refutation of the dean's hypothesis.  (My son and I smiled at the
> grimacing dean as we walked across the graduation stage together the
> next year.)
>
> In other misadventures with my son, I had to change a poopy diaper
> while interviewing James Hansen in his GISS office about his work on
> climate change.  It wasn't one of my favorite memories, but Hansen (a
> father
> himself) was quite gracious about it.
>
> In our hiking adventures, my son survived col

[ECOLOG-L] Fwd: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Clara B. Jones]

Some may be interested to watch one or more of Stephen Ceci's videos
discussing his research (with colleagues) on disparities between males and
females with re: participation in math-based fields. His most
recent studies implicate the decision to have children as the main effect.

http://www.human.cornell.edu/hd/ciws.cfm




-- Forwarded message --
From: Simone S. Whitecloud 
Date: Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 12:03 PM
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?
To: ECOLOG-L@listserv.umd.edu


I'd love to pick up some pointers on how to bring my 3 month old into the
field. I work in the alpine zone, so cool temperatures, wind and rain are
the issue. Any favorite gear items you found helpful? I'm already finding
she is totally soaked by the time we get to the peak from my own sweat. Know
where to buy wool onesies? Tips on packing out dirty diapers?

Thanks for your input,
Simone Whitecloud
PhD Candidate, McPeek Lab
Dartmouth College



-- 
clara b. jones
Blog: http://vertebratesocialbehavior.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/cbjones1943

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Eva-Maria Muecke]

Your post was right on the spot David! Claudia and Eimy had good  
comments too.


In terms of equipment, I am afraid that I am not up to date on the  
newest accessories available for infants. I do agree with David that  
having the right carrier is key. I used a Kelty Kids front carrier,  
which had at least a few more bells and whistles on it  than the  
standard front carrier. I would hope that they improved the design  
even further by now. It's important that you get it fitted right -  
just like a regular backpack. That will make a huge difference. I  
would recommend going to an REI store (you might have done this  
already). This store tends to be more progressive than other outdoor  
stores and folks are usually quite creative in solving problems. They  
might also have an idea for a potential moisture barrier, rain covers  
etc. It's worth a shot.


I live in the Northwest (Portland, OR, area) where folks tend to be  
quite outdoor oriented. The climate is also similar here to the one  
you will be dealing with. So, I looked for hiking groups on Meetup  
that might have insights for you. (Meetup is a online site that can be  
used to organize individuals with similar interests). Here is what I  
came up with:

Portland area:
http://www.meetup.com/The-Gresham-Outdoor-Mammas-Group/
Seattle area:
http://www.meetup.com/Backcountry-Betties/
http://www.meetup.com/PNWLeisureHiking/

I would suggest to contact the organizers of these groups. I am sure  
they would love to help you. People in these regions are very nice and  
helpful and more than willing to look outside the box.


Best wishes to you!
Eva-Maria



On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:03 AM, Simone S. Whitecloud wrote:

I'd love to pick up some pointers on how to bring my 3 month old  
into the
field. I work in the alpine zone, so cool temperatures, wind and  
rain are
the issue. Any favorite gear items you found helpful? I'm already  
finding
she is totally soaked by the time we get to the peak from my own  
sweat. Know

where to buy wool onesies? Tips on packing out dirty diapers?

Thanks for your input,
Simone Whitecloud
PhD Candidate, McPeek Lab
Dartmouth College

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Sarah Jack Hinners]

OK, back to Simone's original question I didn't actually take my babies 
into the field with me, but I took my firstborn on his first hike when he was 
13 days old and many many times thereafter. 
1. Front carriers: Front carriers allow you to take a baby pretty much 
anywhere, snug, with their head supported. The carrier I had (I think it was a 
Baby Bjorn) had a pretty thick layer of padding between me and the baby, so I 
can't imagine him ever getting wet from my sweat, but he was close and small 
enough that I could zip my jacket (a size too big for just me) around us both 
if it started to rain. On longer hikes, I carried a backpack as well, with 
diapers, blankets, etc. So you've got a baby on the front and backpack for gear 
on the back. Not super-fun, but doable if you're determined. 
2. The question that I'm stuck on is what to do with baby once you're up there. 
If it's cold and wet, you're going to want to keep her on you, but can you do 
your field work that way? I'm imagining one of those little portable baby 
shelters and lots of blankets but that 's no good if it's windy...
3. Once baby is bigger (at least 6 months and sitting up on her own) you can 
switch to a baby backpack, which can carry gear and baby.  Ours is a German 
brand (Dieter or something). Definitely try on lots of backpacks because some 
are NOT comfortable, and what's comfortable for one person may be torture for 
another. I also know lots of people with Kelty backpacks too, but I never found 
them comfortable. By that age, you'll have to look out for a small mobile 
person when you're up there doing your field work and you will get less done. 
4. Diapers: I used cloth and I always just carried a couple of big ziplock bags 
in my backpack for the dirties and wipes. I think disposable would be better in 
your case, as they will wick the moisture away from baby's skin better.
5. Keeping warm and dry: lots of changes of clothes. Fortunately, you can carry 
about 3 changes of clothes for a baby that size in a space about the size of a 
grapefruit. I wouldn't use wool - it will itch a baby's skin. But there's lots 
of cozy fleece baby clothes out there. And a blanket for if she's really cold. 
I'd like to support Dave's (I think) comment here - for ALL of our evolutionary 
history, women have had to give birth and then get up and keep going . The best 
place for a small baby to be is close to her mother. If her mother happens to 
be climbing mountains, baby doesn't care. She's warm, she's got mom close, and 
the milk is right there. The bigger the baby gets, the harder it is to 
get things done - small babies can be toted pretty much anywhere and just sleep 
through it. And being physically active 3 months after giving birth is how you 
get back into shape, as long as you listen to your body and take it slow. 
(Taking it slow will reduce the sweating issue as well.)
Simone, I wish you luck. I agree with those who say don't let people pressure 
you into doing field work if you 're not ready, but if it's what you want, 
you'll find a way. 
Sarah

Sarah Jack Hinners, PhD
Senior Research Analyst
Metropolitan Research Center
College of Architecture and Planning
University of Utah
375 S 1530 E rm 226
Salt Lake City, UT 84112
(801)5851026
 


 From: Liz Pryde 
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU 
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?
  
Hi Simone,

The choice here is yours but, you know, if you were able to wait even a few
more months before taking the little one into the field it would be a
better/easier scenario for all involved. The time goes by very very
quickly. Perhaps this season, if you absolutely HAVE to collect your data,
you could have a family member take care of junior, or put her in child
care with bottles of formula/breastmilk. I'm not sure about the US, but
child care in Australia has been fantastic for my little one (she's now 18
months) and very reasonably priced.

Like I said, it's your decision, but it does 'seem' from the outside that
it may be good for you to take a little more time thinking about where your
priorities lie (I'm sorry if that's the wrong assumption). Again, I'm not
sure about the situation in the US, but you really shouldn't feel pressured
to get your work done at such extremes just to move forward in your career.
I know there are a lot of older female scientists out there with these
kinds of 'hard core' stories but most of them I find very unbalanced (with
great careers) and with kids who have grown up with a fair bit of
resentment (and other issues).

It's really up to our generation of mothers (and fathers) to change this
type of impossible and sub-standard expectation of parents. Who is
expecting you to go out and do this work with a 3-month-old? i had to make
a few small sideways shifts, but I have managed to find an exceptional lab
who is at the cutting-edge of their field, yet because the lab is run by
young-ish 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Claudia Ford]

Thank you David for the perspective of a father,
I wrote to Simone off line with practical suggestions, but there may be
others contemplating the same issues so I repeat.  I towed four children
around to global field sites (some pretty challenging) with me as a single
mom, for thirty years.  It was a challenge, but also mostly good for me, my
colleagues, and my (not resentful and incredibly grateful adults)
children.  If the infant is healthy, and, for moms, breastfeeding, then the
issues are not insurmountable.  Strap the infant as close to your body as
possible with as few layers in between as you can manage.  That will ensure
their heat except for the head where a light wool cap should be easy to
find.  Use a size or so larger of your own outer gear to cover you both.
Carry a tarp or fold-able quick-set-up tent for those times when you have
to take a break and need a rude shelter if you are too far from a usable
vehicle.  Don't expect that your colleagues should make allowances (like
slowing down or taking a break or holding something), but be prepared to be
surprised that some will be more than eager and happy to do so.

My strategy was that I never thought that my children (or me) were more
fragile than the children of the host country I was a guest in.  True,
there were a few things that my hosts' children were exposed to and that I
maintained the privilege of not having to expose my own children to.  But I
maintained that level of safety and protection was a privilege.  Most
importantly It remains a choice on whether, when, and how to combine
children and career, and I commend and explicitly encourage Simone for
wanting to explore her options and being willing to seek help to do so.

Claudia

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:29 PM, David M. Lawrence  wrote:

> I wonder if we can redirect this discussion to the task at hand -- how to
> find a workable solution rather than point out all the potential flaws in
> Simone's plans?
>
> We were taking my son on hikes in the mountains of New Jersey and upstate
> New York when his neck muscles were strong enough.  He was probably older
> than three months then, but he couldn't have been much older than six.
>
> This problem doesn't just affect mothers -- it affects fathers who choose
> to make similar sacrifices that women make.  I took my son to his first
> class at Columbia when he was two weeks old.  A few months later, my son
> and I were kicked out of a class we were in -- with the instructors
> permission -- by a fool dean who felt children did not belong at college.
>  The problem with his backward thinking was that I started going to college
> my dad when I was eight or so.  I consider myself empirical refutation of
> the dean's hypothesis.  (My son and I smiled at the grimacing dean as we
> walked across the graduation stage together the next year.)
>
> In other misadventures with my son, I had to change a poopy diaper while
> interviewing James Hansen in his GISS office about his work on climate
> change.  It wasn't one of my favorite memories, but Hansen (a father
> himself) was quite gracious about it.
>
> In our hiking adventures, my son survived cold, hot, wet, and dry
> conditions.  Some days were bad, some days were good -- but we had roughly
> the same split of good vs. bad days in our climate-controlled home.
>
> The problem isn't Simone trying to figure out how to balance fieldwork and
> family life -- the problem is the rest of us who throw unnecessary
> obstacles in her way.  Our thinking needs to change, not hers.  Personally,
> I know she'll have to be realistic about how much work she can do with a
> short person in tow.  It won't be as much as she thinks, but it will be a
> lot more than some other folks think.  She'll have to be realistic about
> certain risks, like sun exposure and insects -- and maybe even bears -- but
> let's consider one irrefutable fact: our ancestors endured far worse
> conditions (with infants!) that she ever will, and our species survived
> just fine.
>
> So, can we focus on practical answers to her original question?
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 4/8/2012 9:59 PM, Clara B. Jones wrote:
>
>> 1. Simone: I commend you for reaching out to your peers for feedback. As a
>> graduate student, I would not have been able to be so vulnerable or to
>> make
>> such a healthy choice.
>> 2. I have had a fair amount of experience with babies&  children in field
>>
>> conditions.
>> 3. I camped in the (deep) VT wilderness with a 4-day old (Dartmouth Outing
>> Club). Bears were attracted to the tent,&  I speculated that they were
>>
>> attracted by the baby's scent(s). This idea, while plausible, is pure
>> speculation.
>> 4. Many decisions made by caretakers carry risks. Be aware of what risks
>> obtain under your conditions, and decide whether the potential costs are
>> able to be minimized and whether they are costs/disadvantages you are
>> prepared to assume.
>> 5. I think that Malcolm is correct to remind you that you are incurring
>> risk

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Eimy Rivas Plata]

Hi Simone,

I took my daughter to a workshop/fieldwork in Guatemala (she was five
months), and then Florida (eight months) - while doing my PhD, it requires
a bit of organization but as long as you have plenty of fluids, formula,
diapers, sun screen, repellent (and some other small things - in my
daghter's case a couple of pacifiers), I think it's totally doable.

What you need to think is that you want to reduce the weight somehow,
because I'm assuming you're taking her in some kind of baby bjorn thing...
therefore, think that you'll have a backpack (on your back) and your kid
(in front of you)... - I'm assuming here and in my case I really liked
having her in front of me so I could control whatever could happen to her...

The problem there is basically the water, which really increases the
difficulty in any type of movement (going up/down), and when hiking, you
need plenty of fluids so you might want to have someone helping you carry
stuff around, maybe you can involve someone else in your project?

Regarding the rest I will say just this... A few days ago, I showed my four
year old a picture of her sleeping on me (she was like 16 months old),
while I was reading a paper (I was writing one of the chapters of my
dissertation), I explained to her what I was doing and while I was thinking
how exhausted (and honestly horrible) I looked in that picture, she said:
"I'm very proud of you mommy" - that was priceless.

Good luck Simone!

Eimy

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Liz Pryde  wrote:

> Hi Simone,
>
> The choice here is yours but, you know, if you were able to wait even a few
> more months before taking the little one into the field it would be a
> better/easier scenario for all involved. The time goes by very very
> quickly. Perhaps this season, if you absolutely HAVE to collect your data,
> you could have a family member take care of junior, or put her in child
> care with bottles of formula/breastmilk. I'm not sure about the US, but
> child care in Australia has been fantastic for my little one (she's now 18
> months) and very reasonably priced.
>
> Like I said, it's your decision, but it does 'seem' from the outside that
> it may be good for you to take a little more time thinking about where your
> priorities lie (I'm sorry if that's the wrong assumption). Again, I'm not
> sure about the situation in the US, but you really shouldn't feel pressured
> to get your work done at such extremes just to move forward in your career.
> I know there are a lot of older female scientists out there with these
> kinds of 'hard core' stories but most of them I find very unbalanced (with
> great careers) and with kids who have grown up with a fair bit of
> resentment (and other issues).
>
> It's really up to our generation of mothers (and fathers) to change this
> type of impossible and sub-standard expectation of parents. Who is
> expecting you to go out and do this work with a 3-month-old? i had to make
> a few small sideways shifts, but I have managed to find an exceptional lab
> who is at the cutting-edge of their field, yet because the lab is run by
> young-ish parents they have realistic expectations of their staff - and we
> produce excellent work. Is there no such support for you or for any
> colleagues you know? After all, it won't be long before you and your cohort
> will be the ones running labs and making the rules.
>
> Finally, have you thought about your physical health here? Weight bearing
> and hiking for long periods of time so soon after giving birth can leave
> you with incontinence/prolapse as young as 45 (if you had a natural birth
> and especially if you decide to have another child). And can compromise the
> repair of your abdominal muscles. Have a look at the stats for these types
> of complications. They have rapidly been on the increase in younger women
> since the Eigthies.
>
> Perhaps I am projecting my own experiences onto you here - and if so, just
> ignore the above. It may be that you feel that this is how you are happiest
> - and the pressure is coming from you.
> If so, I hope you can find a way to keep everyone happy and healthy (and
> dry) and I wish you lots of luck.
>
> All the best,
> Liz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Simone S. Whitecloud <
> simone.s.whitecl...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> > I'd love to pick up some pointers on how to bring my 3 month old into the
> > field. I work in the alpine zone, so cool temperatures, wind and rain are
> > the issue. Any favorite gear items you found helpful? I'm already finding
> > she is totally soaked by the time we get to the peak from my own sweat.
> > Know
> > where to buy wool onesies? Tips on packing out dirty diapers?
> >
> > Thanks for your input,
> > Simone Whitecloud
> > PhD Candidate, McPeek Lab
> > Dartmouth College
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Liz Pryde
> PhD Candidate (off-campus)
> School of Earth and Environmental Sciences
> James Cook University
>
> Thornbury, Melbourne
>

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Silvia Secchi]

Actually, I think the real issue is who is advising Simone to do this
and thinks it is a good idea. My PhD and postodoctoral advisers had
kids and were realistic in terms of their expectations. Now that I am
on the other side, I try to do the same with my students and postdocs.
At three months, you could have a colicky baby or still be recovering
from a c-section. Advisers who do not make room for the needs of a new
mother and baby are problematic in my view - then again, I am probably
biased because I am Italian, and in Europe maternity leaves are
serious business.

Silvia
-- 
Silvia Secchi
Assistant Professor, Energy and Environmental Policy, Department of
Agribusiness Economics
Co-Director, Environmental Resources & Policy Ph.D. Program
Agriculture Building - Mailcode 4410
Southern Illinois University
1205 Lincoln Drive
Carbondale, Illinois 62901
Phone:(618)453-1714
Fax:   (618)453-1708

Vous avez beau ne pas vous occuper de politique, la politique s'occupe
de vous tout de même.
Charles Forbes de Montalembert

The way we organize the modern American university fragments our
knowledge badly. Not only are we divided by discipline, but we are
divided by the methods that scholars use.
Elinor Ostrom

[ECOLOG-L] Berkeley Global Change Biology Project Coordinator

[David Ackerly]

Project Coordinator (Payroll title: Assistant/Associate Specialist, Job # 
12-100) 
Berkeley Initiative in Global Change Biology 
(http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/globalchange/)
University of California, Berkeley

The Berkeley Initiative in Global Change Biology (BiGCB) at the University of 
California, Berkeley, is 
seeking applications for a Project Coordinator for the W.M. Keck Foundation 
Funded Project 
entitled Informatics Engine for Understanding Biotic Response to Global Change. 
A one-year 
position is available starting June 1, 2012 (renewable for one year) with an 
annual salary 
commensurate with experience.

The Project Coordinator will coordinate all day-to-day aspects of the project's 
data mobilization 
activities across the Berkeley Natural History Museums (BNHM), Field Stations, 
and Ancillary 
Datasets.  The Project Coordinator will be required to supervise and coordinate 
graduate and 
undergraduate students who will be conducting geospatial analyses, 
digitization, and databasing 
tasks. Within the framework of existing BNHM activities, the Project 
Coordinator will assist with the 
development of methods for high throughput digitization and data integration.  
In addition, the 
Project Coordinator will interface with project PIs and the programming team, 
and will be required 
to work with campus faculty labs to identify and incorporate additional data 
sources relevant to the 
project's goals.  The Project Coordinator will, under the guidance of the 
Project PIs and the Project 
executive committee, act as liaison with other relevant informatics projects on 
campus.

This position requires a degree in an appropriate field of the biological 
sciences. Experience in, or 
a working understanding of informatics and geospatial technologies in 
biodiversity research is 
required, along with a keen interest in natural history data and collections. 
The position holder 
should have experience with museum and field station collections and research, 
as well as 
laboratory and field research. Familiarity of topics and concepts in biology, 
ecology, evolution and 
conservation are strongly desired.

Excellent data management, problem solving, and administrative skills are 
required, along with 
excellent communication skills, both verbally and written. A demonstrated 
ability to work 
independently and as part of a team is essential. The Project Coordinator will 
also be required to 
travel to and stay at select UC Berkeley Field Stations for variable lengths of 
time.

Applicants should send a cover letter, CV, and three Letters of Recommendation. 
 Applicants 
should refer references to the UC Berkeley Statement of Confidentiality found 
at 
http://apo.chance.berkeley.edu/evalltr.html.  Applications must be sent to the 
attention of Sandra 
Richmond, Research Enterprise Services, 3101A VLSB, Berkeley, CA 94720-3160.  
Electronic 
submissions are acceptable, but all materials must be uploaded as Adobe PDF and 
sent to 
sandy...@berkeley.edu, with the subject:  BIGCB KECK- [Applicant Name].

Deadline for applications is May 3, 2012.

The University of California is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action 
Employer and encourages 
qualified women and minority candidates to apply.

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[Liz Pryde]

Hi Simone,

The choice here is yours but, you know, if you were able to wait even a few
more months before taking the little one into the field it would be a
better/easier scenario for all involved. The time goes by very very
quickly. Perhaps this season, if you absolutely HAVE to collect your data,
you could have a family member take care of junior, or put her in child
care with bottles of formula/breastmilk. I'm not sure about the US, but
child care in Australia has been fantastic for my little one (she's now 18
months) and very reasonably priced.

Like I said, it's your decision, but it does 'seem' from the outside that
it may be good for you to take a little more time thinking about where your
priorities lie (I'm sorry if that's the wrong assumption). Again, I'm not
sure about the situation in the US, but you really shouldn't feel pressured
to get your work done at such extremes just to move forward in your career.
I know there are a lot of older female scientists out there with these
kinds of 'hard core' stories but most of them I find very unbalanced (with
great careers) and with kids who have grown up with a fair bit of
resentment (and other issues).

It's really up to our generation of mothers (and fathers) to change this
type of impossible and sub-standard expectation of parents. Who is
expecting you to go out and do this work with a 3-month-old? i had to make
a few small sideways shifts, but I have managed to find an exceptional lab
who is at the cutting-edge of their field, yet because the lab is run by
young-ish parents they have realistic expectations of their staff - and we
produce excellent work. Is there no such support for you or for any
colleagues you know? After all, it won't be long before you and your cohort
will be the ones running labs and making the rules.

Finally, have you thought about your physical health here? Weight bearing
and hiking for long periods of time so soon after giving birth can leave
you with incontinence/prolapse as young as 45 (if you had a natural birth
and especially if you decide to have another child). And can compromise the
repair of your abdominal muscles. Have a look at the stats for these types
of complications. They have rapidly been on the increase in younger women
since the Eigthies.

Perhaps I am projecting my own experiences onto you here - and if so, just
ignore the above. It may be that you feel that this is how you are happiest
- and the pressure is coming from you.
If so, I hope you can find a way to keep everyone happy and healthy (and
dry) and I wish you lots of luck.

All the best,
Liz






On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Simone S. Whitecloud <
simone.s.whitecl...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> I'd love to pick up some pointers on how to bring my 3 month old into the
> field. I work in the alpine zone, so cool temperatures, wind and rain are
> the issue. Any favorite gear items you found helpful? I'm already finding
> she is totally soaked by the time we get to the peak from my own sweat.
> Know
> where to buy wool onesies? Tips on packing out dirty diapers?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Simone Whitecloud
> PhD Candidate, McPeek Lab
> Dartmouth College
>



-- 
Liz Pryde
PhD Candidate (off-campus)
School of Earth and Environmental Sciences
James Cook University

Thornbury, Melbourne

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Backpacking with an infant?

[David M. Lawrence]

I wonder if we can redirect this discussion to the task at hand -- how 
to find a workable solution rather than point out all the potential 
flaws in Simone's plans?


We were taking my son on hikes in the mountains of New Jersey and 
upstate New York when his neck muscles were strong enough.  He was 
probably older than three months then, but he couldn't have been much 
older than six.


This problem doesn't just affect mothers -- it affects fathers who 
choose to make similar sacrifices that women make.  I took my son to his 
first class at Columbia when he was two weeks old.  A few months later, 
my son and I were kicked out of a class we were in -- with the 
instructors permission -- by a fool dean who felt children did not 
belong at college.  The problem with his backward thinking was that I 
started going to college my dad when I was eight or so.  I consider 
myself empirical refutation of the dean's hypothesis.  (My son and I 
smiled at the grimacing dean as we walked across the graduation stage 
together the next year.)


In other misadventures with my son, I had to change a poopy diaper while 
interviewing James Hansen in his GISS office about his work on climate 
change.  It wasn't one of my favorite memories, but Hansen (a father 
himself) was quite gracious about it.


In our hiking adventures, my son survived cold, hot, wet, and dry 
conditions.  Some days were bad, some days were good -- but we had 
roughly the same split of good vs. bad days in our climate-controlled home.


The problem isn't Simone trying to figure out how to balance fieldwork 
and family life -- the problem is the rest of us who throw unnecessary 
obstacles in her way.  Our thinking needs to change, not hers.  
Personally, I know she'll have to be realistic about how much work she 
can do with a short person in tow.  It won't be as much as she thinks, 
but it will be a lot more than some other folks think.  She'll have to 
be realistic about certain risks, like sun exposure and insects -- and 
maybe even bears -- but let's consider one irrefutable fact: our 
ancestors endured far worse conditions (with infants!) that she ever 
will, and our species survived just fine.


So, can we focus on practical answers to her original question?

Dave

On 4/8/2012 9:59 PM, Clara B. Jones wrote:

1. Simone: I commend you for reaching out to your peers for feedback. As a
graduate student, I would not have been able to be so vulnerable or to make
such a healthy choice.
2. I have had a fair amount of experience with babies&  children in field
conditions.
3. I camped in the (deep) VT wilderness with a 4-day old (Dartmouth Outing
Club). Bears were attracted to the tent,&  I speculated that they were
attracted by the baby's scent(s). This idea, while plausible, is pure
speculation.
4. Many decisions made by caretakers carry risks. Be aware of what risks
obtain under your conditions, and decide whether the potential costs are
able to be minimized and whether they are costs/disadvantages you are
prepared to assume.
5. I think that Malcolm is correct to remind you that you are incurring
risks--for you and your baby; however, babies are more robust and resilient
than his comments would suggest.
6. What interests me...and concerns me...about your case is the very
significant lengths some females choose to go to achieve their goals and,
sometimes, their dreams. For more than a decade, I have been interacting
formally&  informally with young academic females (American)--both
heterosexual and homosexual--and, for those wanting a committed family life
(however defined), there are, quite simply, no easy answers.
7. In my experience, the combination of serious research science career +
family life is challenging even for females who are independently wealthy.
8. Whatever the tradeoffs, tactics,&  strategies chosen, in my experience,
most (American) females wanting a competitive scientific research career
have to manage guilt; sometimes, shame; expectations&  social pressures of
various sorts (e.g., Malcolm's well-intentioned response); research output
that may be considered compromised if not sub-par; undue, and, often,
self-imposed, stress, etc., etc.
9. It is my personal opinion that the major disadvantage for females in
research science careers concerns how to arrange UNDIVIDED, UNINTERRUPTED,
FOCUSED TIME...sometimes, for protracted&/or unpredictable periods.
10. My own "solution" was to surrender custody of my children; however, I
am not recommending this choice to anyone else and know, from personal
experience, that this decision is one that most females are averse to
thinking about.
11. May I suggest that you read Francoise Giroud's biography of Marie Curie
(available @ amazon.com)?
12. Francoise Giroud's autobiography, *I Give You My Word*, will introduce
you to the type of woman (not, in this case, a research scientist) who
loses a child and shows up on time the next day without appearing to "skip
a beat". I read this book when I was an early