Re: [ECOLOG-L] Graduate School GPA Question

[Elmer J. Finck]

Angela -- I have had several graduate students that did not have 3.00 
GPA's and they have gone on to PhD programs, have become professors at 
medium sized schools like the two schools for which I have taught  (Fort 
Hays State University and Emporia  State University both of which are in 
Kansas), some have become leaders in federal and state agencies, some work 
in museums, NGO's, and environmental consulting firms.  In short they have 
become successful.  The key to their success was their drive and work 
ethic both of which go a long way to success in graduate school.  You need 
to make connections with potential advisors that share your interests and 
impress them with your ability and drive.  I always tell students that 
life happens even though we are in school.  Strong drive and work ethic 
will get you where you want to be.  I wish the best to you in seeking your 
goal.  Saludos y nos vemos más tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck, Professor
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
office: AH 302
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/efinck/
office phone: (785) 628-4269
fax: (785) 628-4153
home phone: (785) 625-9727
cell phone: (785) 650-1057

A Rock, A River, A Tree -- a tribute to Maya Angelou 1928-2014



From:   Angela Trenkle 
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Date:   12/10/2014 12:30 PM
Subject:[ECOLOG-L] Graduate School GPA Question
Sent by:"Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 




Dear Eco-loggers,
I would like to go to graduate school to eventually get my Master's. I
have a lot of experience in my field, however as an undergraduate I had
some setbacks so my GPA is below the 3.0 requirement that most schools 
look
for. Is my dream dead? Or are there ways that I can move past this and
pursue my dream of getting my Master's? Thanks!
-Angela Trenkle

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Leaving science?

[Elmer J. Finck]

Allison -- One of my MS graduate students recently took a job as a clerk 
in the National Park Service.  She is hoping to get in that way.  I do not 
know if this will work, but it was her only option.  Saludos y nos vemos 
más tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck, Professor
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
office: AH 302
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/efinck/
office phone: (785) 628-4269
fax: (785) 628-4153
home phone: (785) 625-9727
cell phone: (785) 650-1057

A Rock, A River, A Tree -- a tribute to Maya Angelou 1928-2014



From:   "Allison F. Walston" 
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Date:   07/28/2014 06:41 PM
Subject:[ECOLOG-L] Leaving science?
Sent by:"Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 




Hey everyone

I graduated with my MS in ecology earlier this year and I was able to get 
a
temporary job after graduation. However, the job will be ending shortly 
and
they won't be able to make any permanent hires in the foreseeable future. 
I
have a few other irons in the fire, but I am growing increasingly 
skeptical
that any of them will pan out. 

I know a lot of people are in a similar situation given the job market and
I've recently started thinking about looking outside of science. I did 
well
during grad school and gained a lot of analytical skills. However, I can
imagine the confusion my grad degree would cause for a potential employer
outside of science/biology/conservation. 
 
Has anyone else made the decision to leave science shortly after grad
school? What sort of things are career paths are worth looking into?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Allison

[ECOLOG-L] Behavioral Ecology Textbook

[Elmer J. Finck]

There has been a hiatus of a few years since I last taught Behavior 
Ecology.  I was wondering what textbooks people are using these days to 
teach this course.  Saludos y nos vemos más tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
office: AH 302
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/efinck/
office phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153
home phone: (785) 625-9727
cell phone: (785) 650-1057

You must unlearn what you have learned.  Yoda

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Professional Liability Insurance?

[Elmer J. Finck]

Chris -- I think this varies state to state and university to university. 
Here at FHSU, we and participates (students and otherwise) are covered by 
activities sanctioned by the university, including field trips and 
professional meetings.  Saludos y nos vemos más tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/efinck/
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153
home: (785) 625-9727
cell: (785) 650-1057

The greatest gift you could give yourself is a job you enjoy.  Jerry R. 
Choate 1943-2009



Christopher Ruhland  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

04/28/2011 03:57 PM
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Christopher Ruhland 


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Subject
[ECOLOG-L] Professional Liability Insurance?






Dear Ecolog Subscribers, 

I was wondering if anybody had any experience with Personal Liability 
Insurance for class field trips and related activities.   I am teaching an 

extended field course away from campus, and it is my understanding that as 

such I would be covered under the Universities’ general liability 
insurance policy.   However if a student was injured in an activity that 
was not directly associated with the actual curriculum, I could be held 
responsible.I have also been advised that should an accident/incident 
occur, I could still be held legally accountable in a civil court and 
would not be covered. 

Now we know that professors can’t realistically monitor college students 
24 hours a day for weeks at a time, so the potential for accidents exist. 
I have been advised to look into Professional Liability Insurance and was 
wondering if anybody on this list has advice.   It is my understanding 
that some professional societies offer this type of insurance, does anyone 

have any suggestions? 

Thanks

Chris


Christopher T. Ruhland, Ph.D. 

Associate Professor of Biological Sciences 
Department of Biology 
TS 242 Trafton Sciences Center South 
Minnesota State University 
Mankato, MN 56001

Re: [ECOLOG-L] fixing peer review - elegant new proposal and petition

[Elmer J. Finck]

Yes, and that might be said for Tier 1 journals, but what about state and 
regional journals, which have a lot to offer.  Where do they stand in this 
process?  Saludos y nos vemos más tarde, EJF



Kersner Golden  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

07/22/2010 01:35 PM
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Kersner Golden 


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Subject
Re: [ECOLOG-L] fixing peer review - elegant new proposal and petition






I would say that part of the problem is also that there are too many
journals competing for reviewers (and readers).  As an example, at the
end of the article by Jeremy Fox and Owen L. Petchey there is an
advertisement for a new peer-reviewed ESA journal (Ecosphere Online)
to be launched soon.  Therefore, the problem is not only about authors
not doing their reviewing obligations, but also about publishers
trying to sell too many publications.

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Anna Renwick  
wrote:
> But what is there aim at the moment - surely the same argument could 
apply
> and that they don't assign enough time etc because they get nothing for 
it.
>
> Dr Anna R. Renwick
> Research Ecologist
> British Trust for Ornithology,
> The Nunnery,
> Thetford,
> Norfolk,
> IP24 2PU,
> UK
> Tel: +44 (0)1842 750050; Fax: +44 (0)1842 750030
>
>
>
> Registered Charity No 216652 (England & Wales) No SC039193 (Scotland)
>
> Company Limited by Guarantee No 357284 (England & Wales)
>
> Opinions expressed in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the BTO.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
> [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Amartya Saha
> Sent: 22 July 2010 16:09
> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] fixing peer review - elegant new proposal and
> petition
>
> Its a good idea; however there is a possibility of the quality of
> reviews deteriorating, whereby reviewers may not assign the time and
> effort required for an indepth review, as their main aim would  be to
> get as many "PubCreds" as possible.
> cheers
> Amartya
>
>
> Quoting Jeremy Fox :
>
>> The peer review system is breaking down and will soon be in crisis:
>> increasing numbers of submitted manuscripts mean that demand for 
reviews
> is
>> outstripping supply. This is a classic "tragedy of the commons," in 
which
>> individuals have every incentive to exploit the "reviewer commons" by
>> submitting manuscripts, but little or no incentive to contribute 
reviews.
>> The result is a system increasingly dominated by "cheats" (individuals 
who
>> submit papers without doing proportionate reviewing), with increasingly
>> random and potentially biased results as more and more manuscripts are
>> rejected without external review.
>>
>> In the latest issue of the ESA Bulletin (July 2010, v. 91, p. 325), 
Owen
>> Petchey and I propose a classic solution to this classic tragedy:
>> privatizing the commons. Specifically, we propose that instead of being
> free
>> to exploit the reviewer commons at will, authors should have to "pay" 
for
>> their submissions using a novel "currency" called PubCreds, earned by
>> performing reviews. We discuss how this simple, powerful idea could be
>> implemented in practice, and describe its advantages over previously
>> proposed solutions.
>>
>> The article is available at
>> .
>>
>> Owen and I are very serious about wanting to see this idea, or a 
suitable
>> alternative, implemented. We have set up a petition at
>> . Please sign if 
you
>> support this idea, at least enough to want to see it further discussed.
> The
>> petition site also has a link to the article, and a blog where we'll be
>> updating on progress of the idea and responding to comments.
>>
>> PubCreds are already set to be discussed by the ESA Publications
> Committee,
>> and by numerous other ecology journals. If you're as frustrated as Owen
> and
>> I by the recent deterioration of the peer review process, now's the 
time
> to
>> speak up and take action. Please sign the petition, and pass it on to 
your
>> colleagues and students.
>>
>
>
>
> www.bio.miami.edu/asaha
>

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Masters of Professional Science

[Elmer J. Finck]

Karen -- Here is my experience at FHSU.  We started a PSM program that 
caters to students doing human dimensions projects in wildlife management 
and to individuals wanting to working in microbiology/molecular biology 
labs as technicians.  Our program is only two years old, so it is hard to 
tell how our program will work.  It has been well received by NGO's and 
state and federal agencies that see the combination of biology and 
business or biology and sociology work well.  It is not designed for 
students wanting to go on for a PhD.  In assisting the development of the 
PSM program here, I have done considerable research on the topic.  Most 
programs are not designed for moving into PhD programs. but rather are 
more workforce development programs where people advance in the place they 
presently are employed or go into a business/biology programs, .i.e., 
NGO's and agencies that are seeking this combination.  If you want to look 
at our program let me know.

Personally, at this time I would not go into a PSM program if my goal was 
a PhD.  Our program like many has greater breadth then strict biology 
programs, but are not strong in specifics. 

We have a very strong biology MS program that feeds into PhD programs and 
allows our students to get employment in state and federal agencies.  I 
personally have had 33 graduate students at the MS level in biology.  All 
but five  of them have either gone onto PhD programs or are working for 
NGO's, state agencies, federal agencies, high schools, universities, or 
community colleges in the field of wildlife biology and conservation 
biology.  mas tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/efinck/
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153
home: (785) 625-9727
cell: (785) 650-1057

Let us try to recognize the precious nature of each day.
The 14th Dalai Lama 


Karen Fowler  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

05/22/2010 08:00 AM
Please respond to
Karen Fowler 


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Subject
[ECOLOG-L] Masters of Professional Science






Hello all,

I graduated with several B.S. degrees several years ago, and I have been
unable to get a permanent job, so I have been considering continuing on in
my studies to attain a PhD.  While researching programs, I have come 
across
several "Masters of Professional Science" programs that are geared more
towards teaching you skills and getting you internships to prepare you for
work than preparing you to continue on towards a PhD.

What, if any, are the general opinions on these programs versus a standard
Masters program?

I worry about completing one of these programs, still not being able to 
get
a job, and being unable to continue on for a PhD.

Thank you for any advice,
Karen

[ECOLOG-L] The Prairie Naturalist

[Elmer J. Finck]

The Prairie Naturalist, a regional journal from the Great Plains Natural 
Science Society, has changed its URL to 
http://bigcat.fhsu.edu/biology/pn/prairienat.htm.  mas tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/finck/Elmer-Finck/
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153
home: (785) 625-9727
cell: (785) 650-1057

The trouble is that you think you have time. 
Zen Master 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] to Capitalize or not to capitalize

[Elmer J. Finck]

Michael -- I was taught that rivers are like counties in that they are 
capitalized when in the singular, but not capitalized in the plural.  For 
example, Lyon County, but Lyon and Chase counties.  Likewise, it is the 
Missouri River, but Missouri and Mississippi rivers.  mas tarde, EJF


Michael Cooperman  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

09/30/2009 01:27 PM
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Michael Cooperman 


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Subject
[ECOLOG-L] to Capitalize or not to capitalize






In the following statement:  the Narraguagus and Penobscot 
riversshould the word "rivers" be capitalized? I have my opinion, 
but in the spirit of not biasing responses I'll keep it to myself; my 
office as a whole is split 50/50. One way or the other, half the people 
in my office are wrong!

Michael

-- 
-
Michael Cooperman, PhD
National Research Council - Research Fellow
in residence at NOAA-Fisheries, NE Fisheries Science Center - Maine Field 
Station
Atlantic Salmon Research and Conservation Task
17 Godfrey DR., Suite 1
Orono, ME 04473

(work)  207-866-7409
(cell)  207-974-9846
(fax)   207-866-7342 (pls call before faxing)
email:  michael.cooper...@noaa.gov
-

Re: [ECOLOG-L] How to lick a slug (from NYT)

[Elmer J. Finck]

Bill --What about all the schools that have hornets as mascots.  There are 
several.  mas tarde, EJF



William Silvert  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

08/04/2009 02:31 PM
Please respond to
"Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 



To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: [ECOLOG-L] How to lick a slug (from NYT)






I can't resist adding the observation that the banana slug is, so far as I 

am aware, the only invertebrate to be selected as a college mascot - at 
UCSC.

Bill Silvert

- Original Message - 
From: "David Inouye" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:19 PM
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] How to lick a slug (from NYT)


>>While backpacking here with my 11-year-old daughter, I kept thinking of 
>>something tragic: so few kids these days know what happens when you lick 
a 
>>big yellow banana slug.

Re: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs PhD

[Elmer J. Finck]

Bill -- There is master's degree called a Professional Science Masters 
(PSM) that is rapidly developing across the country.  It is considered a 
terminal degree and is a combination of either several sciences or science 
and business.  We have one at Fort Hays State University that includes 
both business and biology.  I do not know what the job market is like for 
such degrees, but the forecast is high for such.  mas  EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: efi...@fhsu.edu
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/finck.shtml
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153
home: (785) 625-9727
cell: (785) 650-1057

Let it be.  The Beatles 



William Silvert  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

03/14/2009 06:07 PM
Please respond to
William Silvert 


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Subject
Re: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs PhD






Since I did my graduate work in physics, not ecology, I was hesitant to 
step 
in here. However on looking at the various responses I would like to point 

out that in physics, and possibly in other areas, the masters degree is 
what 
you get if you try to get a PhD but drop out part way through. It is rare 
for someone to enter graduate school with the intent of getting a masters 
in 
physics, although there are some fields, such as optical physics, where it 

is a meaningful degree.

In a sense the masters can be a terminal degree, although often this was 
not 
the original intent of the student. It may signify that the student did 
enough work in graduate student to merit some recognition, but was not 
willing or able to proceed to the PhD.

However I should qualify this by pointing out that I know some schools 
that 
are trying to establish a graduate program and start with a masters degree 

before they are able to offer a PhD. This is fine, espeicially if they are 

conscientious about finding suitable jobs for masters graduates or 
providing 
help for those who want to go on to a graduate school that offers a PhD or 

EdD program.

Bill Silvert


- Original Message - 
From: "Sean McMahon" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs PhD


> Wait a second here.  This has nothing to do with the debate over two 
> terminal degrees (can't get more than a Ph.D. or Ed.D).  A Masters is 
not 
> a terminal degree. 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] ESA Position on Economic Growth

[Elmer J. Finck]

Brian -- Well stated.  My hope is that your comments will generate healthy 
discussion and movement on the position statement.  mas tarde, EJF



"Czech, Brian"  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

07/29/2009 05:38 PM
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Subject
[ECOLOG-L] ESA Position on Economic Growth






Nadine Lymn forwarded a message from Josh Schimel of the ESA Governing 
Board, in which Josh indicated that the board had taken into account the 
comments of the group of 84 ESA members proposing an ESA position on 
economic growth.  Therefore, I think it is important to avail precisely 
what our group's comments were.  ESA members and other Ecologgers can 
assess the degree to which they were in fact accounted for. 

 

Group Comments on the Draft ESA Position 

on the Ecological Impacts of Economic Growth 

Delivered to ESA Governing Board on April 16, 2009

 

 

General Comments

 

The draft position includes several correct and important points about the 
ecological impacts of economic growth, and about the need for correcting 
markets in which ecosystem services are not accounted for.  Overall, 
however, the draft position is not based upon sound ecological science, 
does not provide a thorough assessment of the ecological impacts of 
economic growth, and is quite misleading about the prospects for 
reconciling economic growth with environmental protection.  It concludes 
by proffering the oxymoronic concept of "sustainable growth," which is 
precisely the concept that is increasingly refuted in the journals of 
ecological economics and other sustainability-related sciences such as 
conservation biology. 

 

Herein we offer numerous suggestions for improvement, and we strongly 
object to any further advancement of the current draft.  The draft 
position would only exacerbate misunderstandings about limits to growth 
and tradeoffs between economic growth and the maintenance of ecological 
systems.

 

One of the biggest problems with the draft position is the lack of a 
definition of economic growth.  A definition is critical to set a clear 
stage for the entire statement.  Without a definition of economic growth, 
it becomes convenient - but literally meaningless - to proffer concepts 
such as "sustainable growth." 

 

The basic definition of economic growth, used and implied by the public 
and policy makers, is provided in the position on economic growth now 
being proposed by 84 ESA members:  "Economic growth is an increase in the 
production and consumption of goods and services.  It requires increasing 
population and/or per capita production and consumption.  It is indicated 
by measures of production, income, and expenditure, most notably gross 
domestic product (GDP)."  We recommend that this widely understood and 
policy statement-relevant definition be used in any ESA position that goes 
forward. 

 

Shortly after the first use of the phrase "economic growth" in the draft 
position, the word "development" is used, and it too is not defined. 
Thereafter, "economic growth" and "economic development" are conflated 
throughout the draft position.  For example, in the second paragraph on 
page 2, the position states, "Development must remain a priority in light 
of the millions currently living without adequate access to ecosystem 
services and resources that others enjoy freely. Still, unless society 
sets aside enough income to offset the depreciation of all forms of 
capital, there are limits to the amount of material consumption the Earth 
can sustain. The problem is not economic growth, per se, but the ways in 
which it is implemented" (italics added).  Not only is development 
conflated with growth, but "per se" implies that there is a clear 
definition of economic growth, and there isn't.  Similarly on page 2, 
under the heading "The Ecological Impacts of Economic Growth" is the s!
 
 ubheading, "Why is our current approach to development unsustainable?" 
The conflation of the terms throughout the draft position is distracting 
and it renders the content unclear and "watered down." 

 

We are aware that, on page 55 in the 374-page Brundtland Report annex that 
was later published as Our Common Future, there is a paragraph that 
suggests that sustainable development "can be consistent with economic 
growth, provided the content of growth reflects the broad principles of 
sustainability."  This is the one quote of the Brundtland Commission 
provided in the draft position.  However, the Commission also noted, "A 
mainspring of economic growth is new technology, and while this technology 
offers the potential for slowing the dangerously rapid consumption of 
finite resources, it also entails high risks, including new forms of 
pollution and the introduction to the planet of new variations of life 
forms that could change evolutionary pathways. Meanwhile, the industries 
most heavily reliant on environmental resources and mo

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Ethics in Publications

[Elmer J. Finck]

Gurmeet -- The way I was told was the first author is the primary author 
and the last author is the person who runs the lab.  The authors 
in-between are listed by contribution.  mas tarde, EJF



Gurmeet Singh  
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06/07/2009 08:29 AM
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Subject
[ECOLOG-L] Ethics in Publications






Dear List members.
In case of a multi-authored papers, what is the significance of position 
in
authorship ? For example, how are first author, second author ,
corresponding author or the last author   rated for their contribution to
a manuscript ?

Quite often, there are conflicts/arguments among the authors with respect 
to
their position in a manuscript. Do there exist any set of relevant rules? 
Is
it entirely depended on the P.I. ( Principal Investigator)?

I hope to get comments from you on this.

Regards
Gurmeet

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Education and Learning and Performance Re: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs PhD

[Elmer J. Finck]

This discussion reminds me of a discussion we had a few years ago about a 
BS and BA degree.  It seems to me that they are indeed different, but 
equal and it amounts to what one wants in the end.  In some ways it is six 
of one and half a dozen of another.  Both are indeed good, but different. 
Here at FHSU, the EdD is valued in the College of Education,  but not in 
the College of Arts and Science unless the program involves secondary 
education.  A couple of weeks ago I heard an administrator say a law 
degree is equivalent to a doctorate.  I wound if he meant a PhD or an EdD? 
 mas tarde, EJF



Wayne Tyson  
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03/13/2009 04:35 PM
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Subject
[ECOLOG-L] Education and Learning and Performance   Re: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs 
PhD






Honorable Forum: (Please Note: CAPITALIZATION is used in lieu of ITALICS, 
since the listserv does not support the latter. It is NOT intended as 
SHOUTING.)

Any generalization contains a fraction of truth and a fraction of error. 
Absolutist "positions" can be taken by picking any fraction that aligns 
with 
any bias. At any level of specificity can be found a web of relevancies 
that 
are connected to other specifics and generalizations ("It's turtles all 
the 
way down.") Such "cherry-picking" is a route to self-fulfilling prophesy 
in 
terms of a chosen absolute. The key concept is "chosen."

Intellectual exploration is necessarily, crucially, especially critically, 

open, "open-ended." It is the chosen, the absolute, the certainty, the 
cast-in-concrete, that is the foundation of prejudice--a far different 
concept from discrimination, with which it is so frequently and 
ironically, 
incredibly confused. Either this distinction is crucial or it isn't. It 
that 
absolutism? Is there middle ground?

With respect to the generalization that a Ph.D or an Ed.D is equal to, 
lesser than, or greater than the other is an endless argument. But they 
are 
DIFFERENT. Recognizing the difference, at any level, requires 
discrimination. A generalization on any of those possibilities is 
prejudice. 
For example, the phrase "An Ed.D is a BS in makeup" is a prejudiced 
statement. It is a rhetorical device to express a conclusion based on the 
author's experience, which is by definition (unless the author is a God) 
based on limits. One can throw out the baby with the bathwater, or devise 
almost any fallacy to fit the part of the statement that is in error, or 
one 
can use it as a catalyst for further exploration into relevant 
specifics--but that exercise also has its limits.

Looking deeper into the question of Ph.D and Ed.D, one can further 
illuminate the relevant specifics through any number of ways. At one 
level, 
a comparison of the hours required to become certified, licensed, or 
sanctified is revealing. At another level, an examination of the courses 
required will reveal yet more detailed differences. Within that level, one 

can examine the courses, then the course content, the textbooks, their 
content, the way each course is taught, ad infinitum. One should, of 
course, 
always retain a suspension of judgment, but one can come to PROVISIONAL 
conclusions based on the evidence at hand, remaining open to new evidence 
and continuously revise one's provisional conclusions based on that 
evidence 
and discarding parts of the "old" evidence that are in error and reshuffle 

the relative relevance of the whole set of evidence upon which a revised, 
but still provisional conclusion is based.

Both the Ed.D and the Ph.D are certifications that have their roots in the 

Guild system (yea, a Guild System on steroids). They are both, to some 
degree, a means of controlling (including and excluding) others. They 
both, 
to some degree and at some level, contain, or at least profess, some 
openness. Neither are a pure as the driven snow.

Finally, at long last, we come to where the wheel meets the road--the 
student. It is probably that all people have different foci at different 
times, not to say "abilities." Time was, not too long ago, when "autistic" 

people  were considered "uneducable." Whether or not that is a blessing in 

disguise is a matter for another discourse, but for better or for worse, 
there are now autistic people with Ph.D's who have distinguished 
themselves 
intellectually and academically. Still another is whether or not a degree, 
a 
grade, or other form of sanctification or their lack fosters or impedes 
PERFORMANCE.

One can be taught the violin, for example, and perhaps one can earn a 
degree 
in violin, but almost anyone can distinguish the difference between 
whether 
or not one can play the violin, either according to the notes or beyond 
the 
notes, and which one performs in an exemplary fashion and which one is 
mediocre or deludes oneself of greatness whilst squawking most terribly. 
Then there are the naked Emperors who command, by th

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Urban stream "restoration" as a front for ecological destruction?

[Elmer J. Finck]

Steve -- A similar situation occurred here at Fort Hays State University a 
few years ago.  The same reasons for the actions were given.  One good 
thing that developed out of the situation is that grounds now talks to us 
in the Department of Biological Sciences before such action is taken and 
has modified such practices in accordance with our recommendations.  mas 
tarde, EJF



Steve Brewer  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

02/20/2009 09:14 AM
Please respond to
Steve Brewer 


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Urban stream "restoration" as a front for ecological 
destruction?






Rachel,

Something similar to this happened on the University of Mississippi 
campus. Although no restoration project was ruined, I had been 
monitoring the understory plant composition in one of the last 
remaining, possibly old-growth upland forests left in north 
Mississippi. One day I found that crews had come in with box blades 
and took out everything less than 2 inches basal diameter. They made 
plenty of soil disturbance in the process.

When I found out who gave the order (the head of landscaping at the 
university) and asked him why it was done, I was given a variety of 
reasons, some of which may sound very familiar to you. First and 
foremost, he said he was concerned about the "bad man in the bushes", 
particularly co-eds being attacked by rapists and murderers. Second, 
he was wanting to control non-native species, most notably, Chinese 
privet. I mentioned that this was a totally bogus reason. Chinese 
privet was restricted to the edges and the stream gullies and was 
sparse within the forest interior. Most of what they cut down were 
seedlings of oaks and saplings of red maples, hickories, dogwoods, 
cherries, etc. Most of these will grow back (along the few privet 
stems that were cut). More alarming is the fact that, afterwards, a 
highly invasive non-native grass, Microstegium vimineum, colonized 
most of the now highly disturbed ground that resulted from their 
non-selective, ham-handed operations. Third, he mentioned that it was 
also done to reduce fire hazard. Finally, he admitted that a lot of 
alumni had complained about all that "rough brush" in the understory 
of the forest. They just didn't like the way it looked. It appeared 
unkempt to them. That, I'm afraid, is probably the REAL reason. When 
alumni complain about something and there's no response, donations 
are sure to decrease. He was clearly worried about his job. In 
addition to complaints from the public about safety and illicit 
activities, I'd be curious to see if anyone in Santa Cruz or Berkeley 
simply complained about how the native plantings looked and if any of 
these folks were major campaign contributors. Perhaps that's a bit of 
paranoia and excessive cynicism on my part, though.

Steve Brewer



At 1:16 PM -0800 2/19/09, Dr. Rachel O'Malley wrote:
>Hello all,
>I have observed a disturbing trend in my home in Santa Cruz, 
>California that I see echoed in this recent article from Berkeley, 
>CA 
>
http://berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2009-02-19/article/32287?headline=Green-Neighbors-The-Richmond-Chainsaw-Massacre-Part-One

>
>In these cases, urban riparian corridors are denuded in the name of 
>public safety, despite the existence of  a restoration plan of some 
>sort.  In the Santa Cruz case, the work is done by furloughed 
>prisoners engaged by the city government, no qualified biologists 
>are employed, and a vegetation removal permit entitled "riparian 
>restoration" is issued , despite the heavy removal of willows, box 
>elders and other natives.
>Is this new trend peculiar to the Central Coast of California, or 
>are others seeing similar problems with urban stream "restorations"?
>
>Please share any stories you may have with me...
>Thanks,
>
>Rachel O'Malley


-- 
Department of Biology
PO Box 1848
University of Mississippi
University, Mississippi 38677-1848

Brewer web page - http://home.olemiss.edu/~jbrewer/

FAX - 662-915-5144
Phone - 662-915-1077

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Isaac Asimov quote/was Gallup poll on evolution - LAW of Evolution

[Elmer J. Finck]

Chris -- Why don't we use think instead of believe?  Would that help?  mas 
tarde, EJF



Chris Winne  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

02/14/2009 04:53 PM
Please respond to
Chris Winne 


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Isaac Asimov quote/was Gallup poll on evolution - LAW of 
Evolution






Clive Thomson wrote a thought provoking article in Wired magazine ("Why 
science will trump only when theory becomes a law") about this topic:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-11/st_thompson

Best regards,

Chris Winne

- Original Message - 
From: "William Silvert" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Isaac Asimov quote/was Gallup poll on evolution


>I share the feeeling of Wendee and other respondents that "believe" is 
not 
>an appropriate word. The problem is that we haven't really come up wth 
>alternatives that reflect the inherent skepticism of science but that are 

>also meaningful to the general public. Evolution is a credible theory, 
>well-supported by evidence, etc., but none of these phrases have much 
bite. 
>After all, there is still a lot of common reference to "scientific 
proof", 
>and any attempts to revise our language to conform to the way that 
>scientists think (or should think) will simply weaken our case and be 
>jumped on by those who argue that the only thngs we really know are that 
>g*d exists, that everything in the bible/koran/etc. is absolutely true, 
and 
>that theirs is the only true faith. Knowledge is power, ain't it?
>
> Bill Silvert
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Wendee Holtcamp" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:17 PM
> Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Isaac Asimov quote/was Gallup poll on evolution
>
>
>> That is frightening. Wonder why they chose to use "believe in" for this
>> poll...
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
>> [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of David Inouye
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:35 AM
>> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
>> Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Gallup poll on evolution
>>
>> 
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/Darwin-Birthday-Believe-Evolution.aspx
>>
>> PRINCETON, NJ -- On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles
>> Darwin's birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans
>> say they "believe in the theory of evolution," while a quarter say
>> they do not believe in the theory, and another 36% don't have an
>> opinion either way. These attitudes are strongly related to education
>> and, to an even greater degree, religiosity.
>>
> 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Isaac Asimov quote/was Gallup poll on evolution

[Elmer J. Finck]

Wendee -- I wonder that also.  I teach my students not to use believe in 
science because of the religious connotation of the word.  mas tarde, EJF



Wendee Holtcamp  
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

02/13/2009 12:35 PM
Please respond to
Wendee Holtcamp 


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
[ECOLOG-L] Isaac Asimov quote/was Gallup poll on evolution






That is frightening. Wonder why they chose to use "believe in" for this
poll. 

Also, why do they never ask them to get the correct definition of 
evolution.
That would be far more illuminating, taken side by side. 

Question - I have this great quote but can't seem to verify it. Does 
anyone
know if Isaac Asimov actually wrote this, or said this, and if so where? 

"Circumstantial evidence can be overwhelming. We have never seen an atom,
but we nevertheless know that it must exist." 

Thanks!
Wendee
~~
 Wendee Holtcamp, M.S. Wildlife Ecology
Freelance Writer * Photographer * Bohemian
  http://www.wendeeholtcamp.com
 http://bohemianadventures.blogspot.com 
~~6-wk Online Writing Course Starts Feb 21, 2009~~
 ~~~
'Better to light a candle than curse the darkness'


-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of David Inouye
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:35 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Gallup poll on evolution

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/Darwin-Birthday-Believe-Evolution.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles 
Darwin's birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans 
say they "believe in the theory of evolution," while a quarter say 
they do not believe in the theory, and another 36% don't have an 
opinion either way. These attitudes are strongly related to education 
and, to an even greater degree, religiosity. 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Catching soil invertebrates

[Elmer J. Finck]

Dave -- Be aware that some mammals such as Canis latrans, Mephitis 
mephitis, and Procyon lotor can be adversely affected by glycerols or 
similar preservatives.  This has been discussed on Mammal-L and should be 
included in the Animal Care and Use Committee pdf on the American Society 
of Mammalogists' webpage.  mas tarde, EJF



"David H. Byman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

05/23/2008 10:54 PM
Please respond to
"David H. Byman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
[ECOLOG-L] Catching soil invertebrates






Dear All: I would like to do a comparative study of soil 
macroinvertebrates inside and outside a deer exclosure.  As I am 
interested in evaluating the available of shrew food as affected by heavy 
deer browsing, I would like to census the populations of snails, slugs, 
earthworms and insect larvae inside and outside the exclosure fence. 
Are pitfall  traps the best technique for all these invertebrate 
groups?  If pitfalls are a good technique, should I put a layer of 
glycerol or some other preservative to preserve the animals in the bottom 
of the can in case I can't visit the traps more than once a week?  Thanks 
for your help. 
Dave Byman



David Byman
Asst. Prof. Biology
Penn State University
Worthington Scranton Campus
120 Ridge View Drive
Dunmore PA  18512-1699
570-963-2586
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Director Position

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Director of KWEC

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Graduate Assistantships at FHSU

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Graduate Assistanthips

[Elmer J. Finck]

Colleagues:

Please excuse the cross-posting.

Four new graduate assistantships have been funded to support outstanding
students seeking an MS degree in Biology at Fort Hays State University
while working at the new Kansas Wetlands Education Center.  The graduate
assistantships will be available for students who will begin graduate
studies in the fall semester of 2008.  Please inform prospective 
applicants
about these assistantships and the excellent reputation of the graduate
programs in Biology at Fort Hays State University.

The Kansas Wetlands Education Center, located at Cheyenne Bottoms in
central Kansas, will be a branch museum of the Sternberg Museum of Natural
History.  Cheyenne Bottoms is the largest marsh in the interior of the
United States.  It is approximately 70 miles southeast of Fort Hays State
University and consists of three units:  19,857 acres known as the 
Cheyenne
Bottoms Wildlife Area and managed by the Kansas Department of Wildlife and
Parks; 7,200 acres known as the Cheyenne Bottoms Preserve and managed by
The Nature Conservancy; and 21,820 acres known as the Quivera National
Wildlife Refuge and managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.  The
role of the Kansas Wetlands Education Center will be to interpret wetlands
and educate the public.  The facility is under construction and is
scheduled to open in the autumn of 2008.

Persons interested in applying for the graduate assistantships must seek
admission as graduate students in the Department of Biological Sciences at
Fort Hays State University (for application procedures, go to
http://www.fhsu.edu/gradschl/forms.shtml).  Guidelines for graduate
students in the Department of Biological Sciences can be reviewed at
http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/GradStudentGuidelinesFall2005.pdf.  Students
who wish to pursue graduate studies in any area of Biology that relates to
wetlands are encouraged to apply.  A partial list of appropriate areas of
study includes ornithology, wildlife management, conservation biology,
mammalogy, herpetology, aquatic biology, ecology, wetland microbial
ecology, ichthyology, and entomology.  Consult the list of faculty members
in the Department of Biological Sciences at Fort Hays State University (
http://fhsu.edu/biology/faculty-staff.shtml) to ascertain whether or not
your area of research interest is covered.

The graduate assistantships will be awarded in the spring (probably March
or April) of 2008.  They are for one year and are renewable for a second
year.  The stipend is $12,000.

For additional information about these graduate assistantships, contact me
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Dr. Elmer Finck ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), Chair of the
Department of Biological Sciences at Fort Hays State University.

Jerry Choate

J. R. Choate, Director
Sternberg Museum of Natural History
Fort Hays State University
3000 Sternberg Drive
Hays, KS 67601-2006, USA

Phone: 785-628-5664
Fax: 785-628-4518
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Museum website: http://www.fhsu.edu/sternberg


Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/finck.shtml
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153
home: (785) 625-9727

Drink upstream from the herd. 

Four Graduate Assistanships

[Elmer J. Finck]

Colleagues:

Please excuse the cross-posting.

Four new graduate assistantships have been funded to support outstanding
students seeking an MS degree in Biology at Fort Hays State University
while working at the new Kansas Wetlands Education Center.  The graduate
assistantships will be available for students who will begin graduate
studies in the fall semester of 2008.  Please inform prospective 
applicants
about these assistantships and the excellent reputation of the graduate
programs in Biology at Fort Hays State University.

The Kansas Wetlands Education Center, located at Cheyenne Bottoms in
central Kansas, will be a branch museum of the Sternberg Museum of Natural
History.  Cheyenne Bottoms is the largest marsh in the interior of the
United States.  It is approximately 70 miles southeast of Fort Hays State
University and consists of three units:  19,857 acres known as the 
Cheyenne
Bottoms Wildlife Area and managed by the Kansas Department of Wildlife and
Parks; 7,200 acres known as the Cheyenne Bottoms Preserve and managed by
The Nature Conservancy; and 21,820 acres known as the Quivera National
Wildlife Refuge and managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.  The
role of the Kansas Wetlands Education Center will be to interpret wetlands
and educate the public.  The facility is under construction and is
scheduled to open in the autumn of 2008.

Persons interested in applying for the graduate assistantships must seek
admission as graduate students in the Department of Biological Sciences at
Fort Hays State University (for application procedures, go to
http://www.fhsu.edu/gradschl/forms.shtml).  Guidelines for graduate
students in the Department of Biological Sciences can be reviewed at
http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/GradStudentGuidelinesFall2005.pdf.  Students
who wish to pursue graduate studies in any area of Biology that relates to
wetlands are encouraged to apply.  A partial list of appropriate areas of
study includes ornithology, wildlife management, conservation biology,
mammalogy, herpetology, aquatic biology, ecology, wetland microbial
ecology, ichthyology, and entomology.  Consult the list of faculty members
in the Department of Biological Sciences at Fort Hays State University (
http://fhsu.edu/biology/faculty-staff.shtml) to ascertain whether or not
your area of research interest is covered.

The graduate assistantships will be awarded in the spring (probably March
or April) of 2008.  They are for one year and are renewable for a second
year.  The stipend is $12,000.

For additional information about these graduate assistantships, contact me
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Dr. Elmer Finck ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), Chair of the
Department of Biological Sciences at Fort Hays State University.

Jerry Choate

J. R. Choate, Director
Sternberg Museum of Natural History
Fort Hays State University
3000 Sternberg Drive
Hays, KS 67601-2006, USA

Phone: 785-628-5664
Fax: 785-628-4518
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Museum website: http://www.fhsu.edu/sternberg


Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/finck.shtml
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153

Drink upstream from the herd. 

Re: Another picture

[Elmer J. Finck]

Andy -- Interesting point.  My students in wildlife management are not 
pleased with the way I teach the course because they think I spend too 
much time reviewing or reteaching ecology.  However, I assume that ecology 
is the backbone of wildlife management and other environmental sciences. 
Some of my colleagues do not seem to understand the connection and wonder 
why wildlife management and other such courses are taught in a biology 
department.  Making a disconnect from the pure science (ecology) and the 
applied science (environmental science)  or combining them into one is 
clearly wrong.  Both are needed by many of our students.  Most of the 
students will apply what they have learned.  To be a pure ecologist will 
not be as easy being an applied ecologist because of the nature of the job 
market.  But to forget or not learn the basis for what one is doing not 
correct either.  We need the lines of communications between the two to 
solve the problems that humans continue to have.  mas tarde, EJF



Andrew Park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

11/23/2007 06:29 PM
Please respond to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Another picture






The statement that "most silviculture is little more than tree 
farming" is wildly inaccurate in most places except the US southeast, 
Chile, New Zealand, some parts of Europe and China, and latterly, pulp 
plantations in southern Brazil.

In most of north America, forests are managed as semi-natural habitats 
with minimal intervention after logging, or not managed at all.  Even 
planted forests fairly rapidly develop species compositions and stand 
structures that resemble naturally regenerated forests of similar age. 
  There is also a very large literature on the subject of using 
silviculture to create, maintain, or emulate habitat structures.

As for "tree farms", I suspect (though I can't prove) that most 
intensively managed plantations are way more diverse than an 
intensively managed cornfield.

But back to the central subject.  I get the feeling form the way this 
thread has gone that people see Ecology as a "pure" science, while 
"environmental science" is always applied.  If that is true (and I am 
a bit skeptical about the rigidity of the division), should we be 
teaching them as wholly separate subjects in wholly separate courses?

Andy

Re: Another picture

[Elmer J. Finck]

Bill -- Recently, I heard a new (to me) term for this called 
transdisciplinary.  Whatever the term is many problems require very bright 
minds and the use and understanding of multiple phenomena to solve.  mas 
tarde, EJF



William Silvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

11/23/2007 12:51 PM
Please respond to
William Silvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Another picture






The implication is that ecologists do research and environmental 
scientists 
apply it. Yasmin's posting implies that this is true for Turkey, but I 
question its universality. My problem is that there is increasing 
awareness 
of the need for interdisciplinary (rather than multidisciplinary) research 

that does not fit into our existing schema.

By the distinction between interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary 
research 
I refer to fields such as physical chemistry, which overlaps both physics 
and chemistry but is actually quite narrow -- it sits in the space between 

them -- and the kind of research that involves a shallow knowledge of many 

fields.

There are many examples of ecosystems interacting with hydrological and 
geological systems which need to be studied in depth, but although these 
call for an interdisciplinary effort, they do not require the broad but 
superficial knowledge of all areas that we think of as multidisciplinary. 
And where should such prgrams be classified? If not environmental science, 

then where?

Bill Silvert


- Original Message - 
From: "Malcolm McCallum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Another picture


> Yasemin is correct, ecology is not environmental science.
>
> Environmental science is an interdisciplinary area of study that
> encompasses the biological, chemical, geological, economic, and 
political
> forces that mold how we use and manage our environment.  It encompasses
> wildlife and fisheries management, ecotoxicology, and other similar
> fields.  Ecology is a science that addresses the structure and function 
of
> the biosphere.  Although many ecologists find themselves working in
> environmental science, and many environmental scientists work 
essentially
> as ecologists, they are very different.
>
> A simple parallel that might help discern the two fields is that
> Ecology is to environmental science as physics is to engineering.
>
> Malcolm McCallum
>
> On Thu, November 22, 2007 7:33 pm, yasemin baytok wrote:
>> Dear Ecologgers,
>>
>> With all do respect, I disagree with Andy's view that there is no
>> separation
>> between environmental and ecological science. I'm frustrated cause,
>> unfortunately in my country, Turkey, Environmental science = 
>> environmental
>> engineering-agricultural engineering-forest engineering = Ecology! And
>> they
>> seem liked to be so called "ecologist" and even believed they are. 

Re: Throwing away the textbooks

[Elmer J. Finck]

Steve -- Well said.  Like many others in this profession, I am a first=20
generation college graduate.  I am pleased that my two sons are a second=20
generation.  I remember how disappointed I initially was when they did not =

aspire to go into ecology for a program of study.  But am now very pleased =

that they have taken their understanding of ecology that they apparently=20
learned from me and their excellent high school and university teachers=20
into their professions.  It is good to have "ecologists" in financial=20
planning and interior architecture.  I hope we continue to have more=20
people thinking about ecology in other professions.  mas tarde, EJF=20



Stephen Crowley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>=20
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news"=20

11/18/2007 07:36 PM
Please respond to
Stephen Crowley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
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Subject
Re: Throwing away the textbooks






As a high school teacher who sees an enormous=20
variation in student body from year to year, some=20
of whom go off to top colleges and succeed, many=20
of whom are first generation college hopefuls,=20
and a large number of whom are even refugees here=20
with at best erratic educational histories, I=20
find the preoccupation with "should's" here a bit=20
quaint.  This is the 21st Century.  My group may=20
be an extreme example, but students are showing=20
up these days with vastly different experiences=20
than those we might have expected, even a decade=20
ago.  Whatever No Child Left Behind=20
straightjackets or standardized testing they=20
squeeze our kids through, there is no turning=20
back.  More and more students are seeking to=20
include higher education in their lives, that's=20
good.  More and more students are seeking out=20
courses that have to do with how our planet=20
works, that's good, too.  Whether it's Ecology,=20
Environmental Science, whatever the course, when=20
people ask me what I teach, I always have to=20
remind them that, most importantly, I teach=20
people.  Whether it's my catch-all high school, a=20
premium private school, or college, we all share=20
an opportunity here, which is to shape the=20
future.  I think we have an obligation to meet=20
our students where they are, and only then bring them as far as we can.

Steve Crowley


At 05:39 AM 11/18/2007, James J. Roper wrote:
>I teach ecology to grad students here in Brazil, and the problems are
>similar.  However, the simple truth of the matter is that Andy is=20
apparently
>teaching "ecology" to students who do not have the appropriate
>pre-requisites  Sure, the university may not force formal=20
pre-requisites
>on the students, but to study ecology, the student should already have
>studied introductory biology (and so SHOULD know the difference between a
>lizard and a salamander) and preferably other, more advanced, courses in=20
the
>biological sciences.  Also, a fundamental premise of ecology is evolution =

by
>natural selection - the students should understand that first.
>
>So, if the students do not have that background, then I think you are
>wasting your time teaching "ecology" and what you should be teaching is
>"environmental studies."  That could easily be geared to unprepared
>undergrads, and could fill in some of those voids that you mentioned you
>students have.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jim
>
>On 11/17/07, Andrew Park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ecologgers,
> >
> > Responses are invited to the following thoughts, especially from
> > experienced teachers:
> >
> > I teach a 2nd year course in basic Ecology at an undergraduate
> > university.  After four years of teaching this course, I am being
> > drawn to the following conclusions:
> >
> > [1] ? The textbook is awful.  Not only that, but all the textbooks I=20
have
> >looked at that are aimed at teaching an overview of Ecology=20
seem to
> > be
> >chronically faulted:
> > *  There is simply too much stuff in them.  My course is one semester
> > long, but
> > even if it were a full year course, I could probably cover less=20
than
> > 50% of
> > this book.
> >
> > ** The books are grossly overpriced.  Some students are unable to=20
afford
> > them,
> > and since the publisher is constantly coming out with slightly
> > altered ?new?
> > editions, the resale price is low.
> >
> > *** The material they cover and their overall emphasis, appears to be
> > poorly
> >  selected and framed given the tenor of current public discourse=20
on
> > ecology
> >  and environment.
> >
> >  Finally, I believe that I can do this stuff better myself.
> > Although there
> >   are commonalities among all universities, the sociocultural
> > backgrounds of
> >   students and the bioregional contexts in which we work differ
> > greatly.
> >   How can a mass-produced textbook ever hope to capture that?
> >
> > [2] ? Students today are different.  Numerous research studies and=20
even
> > more
> >anecdotal

Re: ECOSYSTEM Health Alien invasions persistence decline limits control Re: semi-silly question from John Nielsen

[Elmer J. Finck]

Bill -- One correction there were mammals on Australia.  However, most 
were metatherians and not eutherians.  mas tarde, EJF



William Silvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

11/16/2007 05:43 AM
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William Silvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Subject
Re: ECOSYSTEM  Health  Alien invasions  persistence  decline limits 
control  Re: semi-silly question from John Nielsen






I'll pick up on two of Wayne's points. One is that "some aliens that do 
little harm" -- this is true, and some aliens are introduced deliberately. 

Mustangs are alien to N. America, and are widely appreciated. Many 
ornamental plants are deliberately introduced. My mother was a member of 
the 
Florida Native Plants Society, and felt that they were fighting a losing 
battle against the imports. An interesting downside is that often 
introduced 
plants in dry areas require lots of water and this creates problems.

As for the comment that healthy ecosystems resist invasion, this depends 
on 
whether they have had a chance to immunise themselves by past experience. 
Because mammals were unknown in Australia, their introduction was 
impossible 
to resist. The same is often true when snakes or mosquitos arrive in 
regions 
where nothing similar has every been present. Often the best defence 
against 
an invading species is a predator that can control it, but if such 
predators 
are not already present, it may take a few million years for them to 
evolve.

Sometimes man has tried to counter one alien invasion by introducing 
another 
alien species to control it -- which brings into action the Law of 
Unintended Consequences. It's a tricky game to play.

Bill Silvert


- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne Tyson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:08 AM
Subject: ECOSYSTEM Health Alien invasions persistence decline limits 
control 
Re: semi-silly question from John Nielsen


> There are some aliens that do little harm; some even provide
> benefits.  This statement is anathema, heresy, fighting words, to
> many, many very caring people.  But so many of those caring people
> have their egos inextricably wrapped up in this very laudable
> mission--it is often their reason for living, often it is a filler of
> a hole in a person's life.  One can't argue with that.
>
> Here's the heart of my "rant."  Healthy ecosystems tend to resist
> invasion.  (However, the introduction of an alien species can, in
> some cases, but not all, truly invade healthy ecosystems. 

Microbiologist

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Re: Teaching Ecology in grades 9-12

[Elmer J. Finck]

Malcolm -- Why cannot ecology be offered at an introductory level?  Is not 
 A & P at the high school introductory?   .You make the assumption that 
all high-school teachers just have a BS.  In Kansas some have MS with 
specialized training in ecology.  gSofd



Malcolm McCallum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

09/24/2007 08:56 PM
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Subject
Re: Teaching Ecology in grades 9-12






Most highschool teachers have multiple courses under their belt in
anatomy, physiology and general organismal biology.  They have a well
rounded education in biology with only a single course in ecology.

When they teach biology they have that broad background to draw off of. 
If they teach ecology they have virtually no background to draw off of.

Its is atune to having a person with one math class teach algebra.  And,
we already have enough of that going on in the schools today.  I know of
one person who teaches math and science and doesn't have but a few
courses.  If the coursework and degrees don't matter, then why even have
them?  Ecology is not an introductory course!

I do not think it is wise unless the teacher has special education in the
discipline, and then, I still see no point in watering down the highschool
curriculum with more advanced courses, when the basics are barely
fulfilled.  If the teachers aren't covering the material in general
biology because they are unable to finish the book, its time to raise the
standards and make them finish the book.  The text "Modern Biology" if
they are still using it, simply isn't that difficult to complete.  Place
some expectations on the students beyond tying their shoelaces.  Expect
them to read something outside of class.  IF students were expectations in
reading, writing, and even math were implemented in the general biology
course, maybe the class would make it to the end of the book!  Why? 
because the students who don't care would not take the class and slow it
up.

On Mon, September 24, 2007 3:13 pm, Larry T. Spencer wrote:
> Here's my two cents.  Personally, I would rather have students come
> away from high school with a positive feeling for science and I think
> that they might be achieved more readily by teaching ecology and
> evolution than teaching the Krebs cycle and cell metabolism (not to
> denigrate those topics). I think it might be easier for a student to
> see the idea of hypothesis and hypothesis testing in ecology than in
> the normal science course. The fact that ecology can also be taught
> from a quantitative viewpoint could also mesh well with the math the
> student is taking in other hs classes and perhaps math teacher and
> biology teacher could work together such as they often do at the middle
> school level.
>
> In any case, the fact that the teacher lacks a Ph.D. is not really
> germane to the teaching of ecology or any science at the hs level.  If
> that were true the teacher would need a Ph.D. to teach the Krebs cycle
> and other topics.
>
> Larry
>
>
> --
> Larry T. Spencer, Professor Emeritus of Biology
> Plymouth State University
>
> 
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>


Malcolm L. McCallum
Assistant Professor of Biology
Editor Herpetological Conservation and Biology
http://www.herpconbio.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Revised Publication

[Elmer J. Finck]

FHSU announces second edition release 
of popular 'Pasture and Range Plants' guide 
  
HAYS, Kan. -- Published in the late 1950s, "Pasture and Range Plants," a 
highly popular and valuable guide to plant life in the North American 
Plains ecosystem, was compiled by Fort Hays State University with the help 
of the Phillips Petroleum Co., which donated the material and artwork to 
complete the first edition of the handbook. That edition was successfully 
reprinted 12 times. 
This invaluable guide to plants of the plains rangeland is now available 
in a new edition, the second. It has been completely revised by the FHSU 
Alumni Association, custodians of the book, and Dr. Robert A. Nicholson, 
professor of biological sciences at FHSU. 
"The material for this book was originally published as a series of six 
separate booklets beginning in 1955. The company distributed about 900,000 
booklets free to the public," said Nicholson. "The booklets were aimed at 
increasing farmers' and ranchers' practical knowledge of range plants. 
Because they were so popular and supplies became exhausted, the booklets 
were consolidated into a single hard-bound volume in 1963, which was 
published by Phillips through the mid-70s." 
Former FHSU President Gerald "Jerry" W. Tomanek, a biologist by training 
and an internationally recognized authority on pasture and rangeland, 
recognized the importance and value of a comprehensive resource on the 
plants of the Plains and was instrumental in obtaining the original art 
collection and copyrights for FHSU. 
The second edition includes digitally remastered plant illustrations 
reviewed by leading experts in the field of biological sciences and 
provides a review of important Great Plains plant species. It has been 
recognized as one of the finest contributions to understanding rangeland 
management. 
After introductory explanations of root systems and the parts of grass 
plants. The main body is divided into sections on Grasses, Legumes, Forbs, 
and Woody Plants and Miscellaneous Poisonous Plants. A bibliography and 
two indexes -- one by scientific name and one by common name -- are also 
included. 
>From the black and gold cover in the first edition to the colorful collage 
of flowers covering the face of the second edition, the updated names of 
plants and the crisper, more vibrant plant illustrations bring the second 
edition to life. 
"In revising the text, I wanted to include up-to-date information yet 
retain as much of the original essence as possible," said Nicholson. "The 
original text was written to be practical, and it included descriptions, 
livestock and wildlife recommendations, distribution information and some 
cultural facts presented with minimal technical jargon." 
"This book is more than a fitting legacy to my predecessor, Dr. Gerald 
'Jerry' Tomanek," said Dr. Edward Hammond, president of FHSU. "It's FHSU's 
way of reinforcing the importance of grasslands and plants that support 
our ecosystem and understanding the past, present and future of the state 
of Kansas, our country and our planet." 
"Another unique feature of the second edition was total involvement of 
FHSU alumni who generously provided their professional expertise in 
helping proof the species accounts," said Nicholson. "Many are 
distinguished professionals in their own regard and lent their time and 
talent in contributing to the timely release of the handbook." 
Copies can be purchased for $25, inclusive of tax and handling, from the 
FHSU Alumni Association, 600 Park Street, Hays, Kan. 67601-4099, on-line 
at http://www.fhsu.edu/alumni/plantbook.shtml or by calling (785) 
628-4430. 
  
  
  

Part-time Position

[Elmer J. Finck]

We are looking fro sabbatical replacement to teach Biostatistics, Ecology, 
and non-majors biology courses.  Two course teaching assignment each 
semester of 2007-2008.  Research and service also are expected.  The 
position is a temporary half-time appointment that begins August 2007. The 
appointment is for two semesters.  PhD preferred but will consider ABD. 
Priority will be given to applications received by July 10, 2007.  Send 
applications to Elmer J. Finck, Chair, Department of Biological Sciences, 
Fort Hays State University, Hays, KS 67601-4099.  For further information, 
see the department web site at www.fhsu.edu/biology/ or contact Elmer J. 
Finck at [EMAIL PROTECTED]  mas tarde, EJF

Part-time Sabbatical Replacement

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Wind Farms 2

[Elmer J. Finck]

Since my last message came though garbled, I have posted this similar one. 
 A land owner contacted me about wind farm effects.  She wanted to know if 
there have been studies on the effect on other animals besides birds and 
bats.  She specifically wanted to know if it effected people and domestic 
animals such as horses, but wanted to know of any other species also. 
Please respond to me off-line.  mas tarde, EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/finck.shtml
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153

What you see with your eyes closed is what counts.
Lame Deer, Lakota Sage

Fw: Wind farm information

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Re: also

[Elmer J. Finck]

Not to mention the loss of biodiversity.  Pure switchgrass fields have 
about as much biodiversity as pure fescue fields from the studies on 
animals that I have seen.  mas tarde, EJF



"La Follette, Doug J - SOS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

02/02/2007 01:37 PM
Please respond to
"La Follette, Doug J - SOS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
also






 
It also takes a large amount of energy [oil or nat gas] to "cook" the
grass into ethanol.


The use of switchgrass as a biofuel feedstock is not as environmentally
benign as one would hope.  It does take land from other uses (food,
range, livestock, native prairie) and these new varieties of switchgrass
have very low root/shoot ratios.  This means that this crop will need
more irrigation and fertilization than its wild cousin.  Although a
perennial crop, replanting will be required periodically so at those
points soil erosion can be a problem.  Loss of excess fertilizer to
ground and surface water is also an issue.  What would really be a
tragedy is if native grassland is plowed up and replanted with this,
when native grassland is extremely endangered and there are the LIHD
alternatives described in Mike Palmer's website and the Tilman et al.
paper.

Linda Wallace

Linda L. Wallace, Ph.D.
Director, Kessler Farm Field Laboratory
Professor of Botany
Department of Botany & Microbiology
University of Oklahoma
Norman, OK 73019
(405) 325-6685
FAX (405) 325-7619
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Kristina Pendergrass wrote:
> Here in Alabama, we recently heard a news story of a biofuel plant 
> (Perihelion Global) being opened in Opp, Alabama.  This plant is 
> planning to make biofuel from peanuts, which is obviously a boon to 
> peanut farmers down in the south.  Originally, I thought that they 
> were going to use the wastes from peanut crops (e.g. shells) which is 
> why Bill's email (below) prompted me to respond, but after re-reading 
> the news story just now, I think they will be using the peanuts
themselves:
>
> http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?s=6006238
>
> I guess there will be some of the same issues here as with corn 
> (monoculture, food crop), though I don't know how the energetics will 
> work out in this case.
>
> Here also is an article about research being done at Auburn 
> University, also in Alabama, concerning the use of switchgrass 
> (high-yield, low-input, drought-tolerant, etc.) as a potential
biodfuel crop:
>
> http://www.ag.auburn.edu/adm/comm/news/2006/bransby.php
>
>
> Kristina Pendergrass
> Research Associate
> Auburn University, AL  36849
> 334.844.5574
>
>
>
>
> 
>> I looked at Mike's web page and I am quite ignorant about the 
>> bioenergetcs of various terrestrial crops (I work in the marine 
>> environment where plants are those little one-celled critters), but I

>> wonder whether if grasses are so suitable for biofuels, what about 
>> the discarded parts of food crops, such as corn stalks and potato 
>> plants. I realise that there is nutritional benefit to plowing them 
>> under, but could they be used in other ways?
>>
>> Another poster mentioned hydrogen and a reduced population -- I 
>> really don't see how we could get enough hydrogen from wind and solar

>> power unless we used a lot of hydrogen fusion to greatly reduce our 
>> population.
>>
>> Bill Silvert
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Palmer, Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "William Silvert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:51 PM
>> Subject: RE: [ECOLOG-L] If not Ethanol, what then?
>>
>> Bill,
>> Quite a number of people are working on the use of Low-Intensity, 
>> High-Diversity (LIHD) systems (to use Dave Tilman's term).  This 
>> contrasts markedly with High-Intensity, Low-Diversity (HILD) systems 
>> such as corn or transgenic Miscanthus.  LIHD systems have advantages 
>> in not only being carbon-negative, but in promoting biodiversity and 
>> preventing habitat loss and degradation (see my arguments in 
>> http://ecology.okstate.edu/Libra/biofuels.htm ) ---Mike Palmer
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Silvert
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:51 AM
>> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
>> Subject: [ECOLOG-L] If not Ethanol, what then?
>>
>> In the recent discussion of biofuels, there seems to be a consensus 
>> that
>>
>> producing ethanol from corn has serious adverse consequences both 
>> ecological and economic. However I have not seen anyone address the 
>> broader question of what alternatives we have in the long run. Fossil

>> fuels will eventually run out - oil in a century or so at most, coal 
>> in several centuries - and while there may be some wonderous new 
>> technology to fill the gap, we cannot count on that. I suspect that 
>> combustible fuels will always be with us, and I wonder what they will

>> be.
>>
>> Bill Si

Wildlife Biologist Position

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Re: capitalization rules for common names?

[Elmer J. Finck]

Christopher -- There does seem to be a trend towards standardized names 
for fish, herps, and mammals with some call to use capitalization. 
However, the method for declaring standardization seems to vary among 
taxa.  In some cases authors have written a standardized common name 
manuscript or book.  In others it seems to go through a committee.  One of 
my pet peeves is then to see the common name used as a plural noun, when 
in fact it refers to a species and thus should be singular.  mas tarde, 
EJF

Elmer J. Finck
Professor and Chair
Department of Biological Sciences
Fort Hays State University
600 Park Street
Hays, KS  67601-4099
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
webpage: http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/finck.shtml
phone: (785) 628-4214
fax: (785) 628-4153

In tribute to Elmer C. Birney 1940-2000
"Good data are immortal; our interpretation of those data changes at least 
every ten years."

 



Christopher Dunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 

07/19/2006 05:16 PM
Please respond to
Christopher Dunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


To
ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: capitalization rules for common names?






I'm all for capitalizing common names IF there is agreement on what they
are.  Capitalization implies (to me, at least) that they have been
determined by some widely-accepted and appropriate process.  They've
been "certified," so to speak.

But, the problem with common names (esp. for plants) as we all know, is
that there is no accepted or conventional usage.  What is tulip poplar
to one person is yellow poplar to another and tulip tree to a third.
So, until plant common names are standardized (which will never happen),
I'm quite content to use lower case.

Christopher 

Christopher P. Dunn, PhD
Executive Director for Research Programs &
Smith Family Curator of Native Habitats
Chicago Botanic Garden
1000 Lake Cook Road
Glencoe, IL  60022
USA

Phone:  847.835.6934
Fax:  847.835.5484
http://www.chicagobotanic.org/research/science/_dunn.html
http://www.vplants.org/
 

-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Whitacre
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:40 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] capitalization rules for common names?

Scott and list,

Its true that bird common names are normally capitalized, though this
has 
not been so for at least mammals, and probably many other taxa. A friend
and 
mentor of mine recently gave me a compelling argument that, editorial 
traditions be damned, we should simply capitalize all common names. Is a

pygmy rabbit just a very small rabbit of some unspecified kind, or a
species 
as clearly denoted by Pygmy Rabbit? Is a vagrant shrew an extralimital
shrew 
record of some undesignated species--or is it a Vagrant Shrew?

I think my friend is right, and capitalizing all common names is the
right 
way to go and the wave of the future. He gave several examples in which 
recent field guides etc. have been breaking with the non-capitalization 
tradition, and editors have been coming around to the idea. I say we
should 
do what makes the most sense to us, and push this envelope.

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Ruhren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:28 PM
Subject: capitalization rules for common names?


> Dear List Members:
>
>
>
> I have been attempting to find a definitive answer regarding rules and
> standards of capitalization for common names of biota. Except when the
> common name contains a proper name (ex. Canadian, Wilson's), I follow
the
> no-capitalization rule. This complies with several writing style
guides
> often used for journals (ex. CBE, APA) and popular press science
> publications. Additionally, popular press sources such as National
> Geographic, NY Times, Nature Conservancy magazine etc. do NOT
capitalize
> common names. Finally, is it my imagination that there seems to be
some
> disparity between zoological (more caps.) and botanical (less caps.)
> publications. Could this be an antique holdover? I have seen more
> capitalization in ornithological publications for
> fanciers/birders/associations. Field guides seem top overuse 
> capitalization
> for emphasis.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Scott Ruhren, Ph.D.
>
> Senior Director of Conservation
>
> Audubon Society of Rhode Island
>
> 12 Sanderson Road
>
> Smithfield, RI 02917-2600
>
>
>
> 401-949-5454
>
>
> 

Prairie Dog GRA

[Elmer J. Finck]

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Plant Biologist

[Elmer J. Finck]

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