Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
I think there are two issues here: 1) GM crops 2) massive biotech companies like Monsanto Perhaps it may be better to look at each of these separately. Dr Anna R. Renwick Research Ecologist British Trust for Ornithology, The Nunnery, Thetford, Norfolk, IP24 2PU, UK Tel: +44 (0)1842 750050; Fax: +44 (0)1842 750030 Registered Charity No 216652 (England Wales) No SC039193 (Scotland) Company Limited by Guarantee No 357284 (England Wales) Opinions expressed in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the BTO. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of Annemarie Kramer Sent: 01 July 2010 12:40 To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology I am only joining the discussion now, but enterprises like Monsanto do raise concerns. There is a documentary on you tube that critically shows what is behind them and makes you think you don't want these kind of enterprises controlling our future agriculture market (and this is what they are after). It is scary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hErvV5YEHkE Annemarie Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:23:28 -0700 Von: Paul Cherubini mona...@saber.net An: Betreff: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology Wayne Tyson wrote: What's the irrigation efficiency component of those statistics? Are there any actual experimental data that compare strains under laboratory controls? I'm talking strictly about actual water consumption per unit biomass or seed volume/weight, not field observations loaded with variables and open to manipulation. But beyond that, upon what theoretical foundation is the assertion that GMO alone performs these miracles, without any change in water and nutrients? Wayne, the biotech companies have not claimed GMO alone will double yields in 30 years while at the same time consuming fewer resources (water, fertilizer, fossil fuel, land) and producing less carbon dioxide. Monsanto explains the doubling of yields of corn, soybeans, cotton and canola in 30 years can reasonably be accomplished via using a combination of advanced Plant Breeding, Biotechnology and Agronomic Practices http://www.monsanto.com/responsibility/sustainable-ag/new_vision_for_ag.asp The American Soybean Association gets into some specifics in it's brochure on Ten Reasons US Soybeans Are Sustainable http://www.ussoyexports.org/resources/USSEC_sustainability.pdf Examples from the brochure: a) Herbicide tolerant [GMO] soybeans enable farmers to practice no-till production. b) The no-till production method enables farms to reduce deep plowing and multiple soil cultivation operations with heavy equipment. c) The reduction in deep plowing reduces the loss of soil and moisture. d) No-till allows the residue from the previous crop to be left in the field which eventually degrades and thus increases the amount of topsoil in the fields. e) Narrow row planting enables soybeans to grow so closely together they crowd out competing weeds and reduce soil moisture loss. f) Reduced need for heavy soil cultivation equipment reduces fossil fuel use and emissions and reduces soil compaction which in turn is good for earthworm populations, soil moisture retention and reduced water runoff into waterways. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
I am only joining the discussion now, but enterprises like Monsanto do raise concerns. There is a documentary on you tube that critically shows what is behind them and makes you think you don't want these kind of enterprises controlling our future agriculture market (and this is what they are after). It is scary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hErvV5YEHkE Annemarie Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:23:28 -0700 Von: Paul Cherubini mona...@saber.net An: Betreff: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology Wayne Tyson wrote: What's the irrigation efficiency component of those statistics? Are there any actual experimental data that compare strains under laboratory controls? I'm talking strictly about actual water consumption per unit biomass or seed volume/weight, not field observations loaded with variables and open to manipulation. But beyond that, upon what theoretical foundation is the assertion that GMO alone performs these miracles, without any change in water and nutrients? Wayne, the biotech companies have not claimed GMO alone will double yields in 30 years while at the same time consuming fewer resources (water, fertilizer, fossil fuel, land) and producing less carbon dioxide. Monsanto explains the doubling of yields of corn, soybeans, cotton and canola in 30 years can reasonably be accomplished via using a combination of advanced Plant Breeding, Biotechnology and Agronomic Practices http://www.monsanto.com/responsibility/sustainable-ag/new_vision_for_ag.asp The American Soybean Association gets into some specifics in it's brochure on Ten Reasons US Soybeans Are Sustainable http://www.ussoyexports.org/resources/USSEC_sustainability.pdf Examples from the brochure: a) Herbicide tolerant [GMO] soybeans enable farmers to practice no-till production. b) The no-till production method enables farms to reduce deep plowing and multiple soil cultivation operations with heavy equipment. c) The reduction in deep plowing reduces the loss of soil and moisture. d) No-till allows the residue from the previous crop to be left in the field which eventually degrades and thus increases the amount of topsoil in the fields. e) Narrow row planting enables soybeans to grow so closely together they crowd out competing weeds and reduce soil moisture loss. f) Reduced need for heavy soil cultivation equipment reduces fossil fuel use and emissions and reduces soil compaction which in turn is good for earthworm populations, soil moisture retention and reduced water runoff into waterways. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
Wayne Tyson wrote: Please supply evidence that genetic engineering or any other method can double the productivity of any species without increasing the amount of water and nutrients, I'll settle for a ratio of total biomass or grain yield ratio to water Wayne, lets look at the track record of the biotech and industrialized ag industry in the USA. In 2009 the The Keystone Alliance for Sustainable Agriculture published a report http://tinyurl.com/26su7y2 that looked at yields vs. land use, irrigation water use, energy use, soil loss, and climate impact for the Corn, Cotton, Soybeans and Wheat grown in the USA during the 20 year period from 1987-2007 With regard to Yield Per Irrigated Acre vs. Irrigation Water Applied Per Acre during the period 1987-2007 the authors found: 1) Corn Yields Per Irrigated Acre increased about 24% while Irrigation Water Applied Per Acre decreased about 11% http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/corn.jpg 2) Cotton Yields Per Irrigated Acre increased about 69% while Irrigation Water Applied Per Acre decreased about 30% http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/cotton.jpg 3) Soybean Yields Per Irrigated Acre increased about 23% while Irrigation Water Applied Per Acre decreased about 4% http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/soybean.jpg 4) Wheat Yields Per Irrigated Acre increased about 11% while Irrigation Water Applied Per Acre increased about 10% http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae78/18R-C/wheat.jpg Thus with the exception of wheat, these data show the biotech and industrialized ag industry has an excellent track record of substantially increasing the yields of irrigated crops while at the same time substantially decreasing water usage. The failure in wheat could be due to the fact that industry has not come out with much biotech wheat to date. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
Wayne Tyson wrote: What's the irrigation efficiency component of those statistics? Are there any actual experimental data that compare strains under laboratory controls? I'm talking strictly about actual water consumption per unit biomass or seed volume/weight, not field observations loaded with variables and open to manipulation. But beyond that, upon what theoretical foundation is the assertion that GMO alone performs these miracles, without any change in water and nutrients? Wayne, the biotech companies have not claimed GMO alone will double yields in 30 years while at the same time consuming fewer resources (water, fertilizer, fossil fuel, land) and producing less carbon dioxide. Monsanto explains the doubling of yields of corn, soybeans, cotton and canola in 30 years can reasonably be accomplished via using a combination of advanced Plant Breeding, Biotechnology and Agronomic Practices http://www.monsanto.com/responsibility/sustainable-ag/new_vision_for_ag.asp The American Soybean Association gets into some specifics in it's brochure on Ten Reasons US Soybeans Are Sustainable http://www.ussoyexports.org/resources/USSEC_sustainability.pdf Examples from the brochure: a) Herbicide tolerant [GMO] soybeans enable farmers to practice no-till production. b) The no-till production method enables farms to reduce deep plowing and multiple soil cultivation operations with heavy equipment. c) The reduction in deep plowing reduces the loss of soil and moisture. d) No-till allows the residue from the previous crop to be left in the field which eventually degrades and thus increases the amount of topsoil in the fields. e) Narrow row planting enables soybeans to grow so closely together they crowd out competing weeds and reduce soil moisture loss. f) Reduced need for heavy soil cultivation equipment reduces fossil fuel use and emissions and reduces soil compaction which in turn is good for earthworm populations, soil moisture retention and reduced water runoff into waterways. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
Wayne Tyson wrote: Please supply evidence that genetic engineering or any other method can double the productivity of any species without increasing the amount of water and nutrients, including a cogent explanation of just how this is done. Wayne, according to the National Corn Growers Association: Farmers today produce 70 percent more corn per pound of fertilizer than in the 1970s. http://ncga.com/files/pdf/worldofcorn2010.pdf USDA fertilizer use statistics http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FertilizerUse/ show US consumption of fertlizer for corn, cotton, wheat and soybeans has been generally stable since the mid-1970's whereas the yields per acre have risen dramatically: http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/index.asp Specific examples of yield increases since 1979: Corn: Up about 63% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyld.asp Cotton Up about 52% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cotnyld.asp Soybeans Up about 53% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/soyyld.asp Winter Wheat Up about 26% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.asp With regard to your question just how this is done Monsanto explains in general terms on it's website: how we can use breeding, biotechnology and better agronomy to help double yields. http://tinyurl.com/2ag8zl Excerpt: With the genome sequencer, Monsanto researchers are able to learn in 10 days what it used to take them 10 years of research to discover - that's why it's playing an integral role in the company's commitment to double yields by 2030. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif.
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
What about the biomass or grain yield ratio to water? WT - Original Message - From: Paul Cherubini mona...@saber.net To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology Wayne Tyson wrote: Please supply evidence that genetic engineering or any other method can double the productivity of any species without increasing the amount of water and nutrients, including a cogent explanation of just how this is done. Wayne, according to the National Corn Growers Association: Farmers today produce 70 percent more corn per pound of fertilizer than in the 1970s. http://ncga.com/files/pdf/worldofcorn2010.pdf USDA fertilizer use statistics http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FertilizerUse/ show US consumption of fertlizer for corn, cotton, wheat and soybeans has been generally stable since the mid-1970's whereas the yields per acre have risen dramatically: http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/index.asp Specific examples of yield increases since 1979: Corn: Up about 63% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyld.asp Cotton Up about 52% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cotnyld.asp Soybeans Up about 53% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/soyyld.asp Winter Wheat Up about 26% http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.asp With regard to your question just how this is done Monsanto explains in general terms on it's website: how we can use breeding, biotechnology and better agronomy to help double yields. http://tinyurl.com/2ag8zl Excerpt: With the genome sequencer, Monsanto researchers are able to learn in 10 days what it used to take them 10 years of research to discover - that's why it's playing an integral role in the company's commitment to double yields by 2030. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2968 - Release Date: 06/28/10 06:37:00
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
Monsanto's claims, as quoted by Cherubini, seem like Green Revolution all over again to me. In the corn example, it would seem that a reduction in ear production would be a disadvantage. Shifts in emphasis from leaves and stems to seed or fruit production might be more related to culture than genetics, but that has historically played a role in crop plant production. I have no guidelines; I am interested in Monsanto's. However, for the moment I'll settle for a ratio of total biomass to water, and whether or not the doubling claim is pure fantasy or if there is solid evidence or theoretical foundation behind it. WT - Original Message - From: malcolm McCallum malcolm.mccal...@herpconbio.org To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology I am not sure if this fits your guidelines, but please let me know! Plant breeding of corn species that did not devote energy to tassel production and instead shiftking those resources to corn might be close. Only problem was that the resistance to Southern Corn Blight was linked in some way to producting tassels and ears! So, the disease ravaged the US corn crop when the weather was right and the strains were abandoned. At least that is my recollection! Malcolm On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Wayne Tyson landr...@cox.net wrote: Please supply evidence that genetic engineering or any other method can double the productivity of any species without increasing the amount of water and nutrients, including a cogent explanation of just how this is done. WT - Original Message - From: Paul Cherubini mona...@saber.net To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology I would say the big biotech companies are the world's leading authorities with regard to the issue of how we can feed the world in the coming decades. Example: http://www.monsanto.com/responsibility/sustainable-ag/default.asp Excerpts: By 2050, say United Nations’ experts, our planet must double food production to feed an anticipated population of 9.3 billion people. By 2030, Monsanto commits to help farmers produce more and conserve more by: Developing improved seeds that help farmers double yields from 2000 levels for corn, soybeans, cotton, and spring-planted canola, with a $10 million grant pledged to improve wheat and rice yields.” Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00 -- Malcolm L. McCallum Managing Editor, Herpetological Conservation and Biology 1880's: There's lots of good fish in the sea W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00
[ECOLOG-L] Physiology Productivity Promises and BS Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology
Please supply evidence that genetic engineering or any other method can double the productivity of any species without increasing the amount of water and nutrients, including a cogent explanation of just how this is done. WT - Original Message - From: Paul Cherubini mona...@saber.net To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] worlds authorities in sustainable ag/meat/ag ecology I would say the big biotech companies are the world's leading authorities with regard to the issue of how we can feed the world in the coming decades. Example: http://www.monsanto.com/responsibility/sustainable-ag/default.asp Excerpts: By 2050, say United Nations’ experts, our planet must double food production to feed an anticipated population of 9.3 billion people. By 2030, Monsanto commits to help farmers produce more and conserve more by: Developing improved seeds that help farmers double yields from 2000 levels for corn, soybeans, cotton, and spring-planted canola, with a $10 million grant pledged to improve wheat and rice yields.” Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00
