Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
Matthew basically wrote most of my response. Always use the USAJobs resume builder tool instead of uploading an academic-type CV, and modify it for every single job you apply, using key words plucked from the announcement skills, requirements, and experience - and use them more than once. The resume builder has some limitations in the number of characters for some fields (including work experience and some others) but there is one field named additional experience that has basically no limit (it is so high). That field allows you to include anything else you'd like to highlight, like relevant committees, volunteer work in scientific organizations, media presence, etc. What I do is I have a super complete and long CV on the resume builder, and i make a copy of it and edit and name it for each position. then i delete it after a while, since you can only have something like 4 resumes in the system at a time. i haven't applied for many fed jobs, but have gotten up the ladder a couple times, including interviews, using these strategies. Astrid Caldas, PhD Science for Better Environmental Policy P: 240-4605275 I blog at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/astrid-caldas/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/acaldas http://twitter.com/climategeek From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE As a federal employee for 10 years, at two different agencies, and applied to hundreds of positions I can attest that KEY WORDS ARE ESSENTIAL. Yes veterans are given extra points and current federal employees have a better chance but persistence is key. Unfortunately the initial screening process is done through a computer system or HR person that is not necessarily familiar with the position. Therefore the thing they look at are key words. Regurgitate the key words that are on the job announcement. Regurgitate the key words that are on the job announcement. Yes I said it twice. Use the form that USAJOBS provides. DO NOT UPLOAD your own version of a CV or resume. Once you have your USAJOBS resume it is relatively easy to apply for positions with minimal tweaking. The HR person then passes along the a few qualified, top scoring applicants to the hiring supervisor to determine who will get an interview. The top scoring applicant does not have to be the person offered the position. If you are not on that list from HR you are out of luck however, the hiring supervisor can always ask that a specific applicant be added to the list. If you can find out who the hiring supervisor is and give them your CV, resume you may stand a better chance or may just anger them because you did an end round the system. Matthew Voisine Biologist USACE- NY District 26 Federal Plaza Room 2151 NY, NY 10278 917.790.8718 voice 702.271.0496 mobile 212.264.0961 fax -Original Message- From: Brent Bellinger [mailto:bbellinger2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM Subject: USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
I'd like to thank Brian Mitchell for this rarely-offered insight into the federal hiring process. Having spent a couple years applying for federal positions without much to show for it, it was beginning to seem a waste of time. Jack E. Janisch -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Mitchell Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 12:11 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume Hello Ecolog, I hope that, as a federal employee who had done a lot of hiring over the past 7 years and who happens to have insomnia tonight, that I can offer a few comments and suggestions relevant to this thread. First, some background: The federal hiring system has changed significantly over the last couple of years. The current system has applicants fill out a self-ranking and submitting a CV to apply for positions. The self-rankings are reviewed by HR, and in theory if you lie (i.e., do not document all high self-rankings in your CV) they can reduce your score and knock you off the final cert. In practice, they don't review rankings and only check for minimum qualifications before sending applications to the hiring official. That person receives a large number of applicants who fall into the highest category of self-ratings, and that person will receive a different set (called a cert, often with a lot of overlap) for each grade and job series. This is easily thirty or more applicants who make the cut. On any given cert, a veteran can rise to the top of the cert if their application falls within that highest category (for most vets) or if they meet the minimum qualifications for the position (for a disabled vet). If a vet is on a cert, the law says that the vet has to decline the job before anyone else on that cert can be offered a job from it (but hiring officials are free to work other certs). As a hiring official, the first thing I do is toss the questionnaires into the trash. Nobody is honest on them, and the responses are useless. The next thing I do is spend a few minutes with each CV to weed out the chaff - people who were not at all qualified for the job but got in based on questionnaire responses alone. Then I'll do a second review of the remaining CVs to try to pick a few people out for interviews, and take it from there. As a hiring official, vet preference aside, I can hire anyone on any of my certs, for any reason. There is nothing illegal about choosing a candidate who is known to me, or who has done some networking and made contact with me by other means. I am not even required to conduct interviews. Perhaps this seems unfair, but many hiring officials would rather have a good candidate who they know than a great candidate they don't know; often that great candidate is only great on paper. My advice is: 1) Do NOT submit a resume and a CV; it is unnecessary duplication. Others may disagree here, but when I take 3-5 minutes to look at your application, the last thing I want is to read the same exact stuff twice; it annoys me and you don't want to annoy me during the few minutes I have with your application. DO take the time to make sure you address/document in your CV experiences that led you to rate yourself highly in the questionnaire. Yes, I did not look at your questionnaire, but I DID write the questions to reflect the skills I think are important. Document those skills or your resume will be considered chaff. 2) DO take the time to write a good cover letter. Show that you know something about the job or organization. Do your homework by looking at the hiring organization's web site, at the very least. This is where you can highlight your specific skills and experience for the position; the sorts of things that you might target on a short resume. 3) Do NOT worry about key words. That was from the old days, when the HR reviewer was actually a hurdle rather than a pass-through. DO worry about documenting your skills relevant to the position. 4) Do follow up with the hiring official, if you are able to determine who that is. You can even try contacting before submitting the application to see if they have someone in mind for the position. Most people will not provide this information, but some will. It can't hurt, and it might help. 5) I'll reiterate the advice already sent to read the application instructions carefully. Don't eliminate yourself by not submitting ALL college transcripts, for example. 6) I would tell you not to despair, and that if you apply enough times you'll get a job, but the sequester is real and it is having a serious effect. This is a lousy time to be looking for permanent work in the federal government. There is a near-complete hiring freeze on permanent positions in Interior, and I believe in many other Departments as well. The few jobs that are out there will have immense
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
Hello Ecolog, I hope that, as a federal employee who had done a lot of hiring over the past 7 years and who happens to have insomnia tonight, that I can offer a few comments and suggestions relevant to this thread. First, some background: The federal hiring system has changed significantly over the last couple of years. The current system has applicants fill out a self-ranking and submitting a CV to apply for positions. The self-rankings are reviewed by HR, and in theory if you lie (i.e., do not document all high self-rankings in your CV) they can reduce your score and knock you off the final cert. In practice, they don't review rankings and only check for minimum qualifications before sending applications to the hiring official. That person receives a large number of applicants who fall into the highest category of self-ratings, and that person will receive a different set (called a cert, often with a lot of overlap) for each grade and job series. This is easily thirty or more applicants who make the cut. On any given cert, a veteran can rise to the top of the cert if their application falls within that highest category (for most vets) or if they meet the minimum qualifications for the position (for a disabled vet). If a vet is on a cert, the law says that the vet has to decline the job before anyone else on that cert can be offered a job from it (but hiring officials are free to work other certs). As a hiring official, the first thing I do is toss the questionnaires into the trash. Nobody is honest on them, and the responses are useless. The next thing I do is spend a few minutes with each CV to weed out the chaff - people who were not at all qualified for the job but got in based on questionnaire responses alone. Then I'll do a second review of the remaining CVs to try to pick a few people out for interviews, and take it from there. As a hiring official, vet preference aside, I can hire anyone on any of my certs, for any reason. There is nothing illegal about choosing a candidate who is known to me, or who has done some networking and made contact with me by other means. I am not even required to conduct interviews. Perhaps this seems unfair, but many hiring officials would rather have a good candidate who they know than a great candidate they don't know; often that great candidate is only great on paper. My advice is: 1) Do NOT submit a resume and a CV; it is unnecessary duplication. Others may disagree here, but when I take 3-5 minutes to look at your application, the last thing I want is to read the same exact stuff twice; it annoys me and you don't want to annoy me during the few minutes I have with your application. DO take the time to make sure you address/document in your CV experiences that led you to rate yourself highly in the questionnaire. Yes, I did not look at your questionnaire, but I DID write the questions to reflect the skills I think are important. Document those skills or your resume will be considered chaff. 2) DO take the time to write a good cover letter. Show that you know something about the job or organization. Do your homework by looking at the hiring organization's web site, at the very least. This is where you can highlight your specific skills and experience for the position; the sorts of things that you might target on a short resume. 3) Do NOT worry about key words. That was from the old days, when the HR reviewer was actually a hurdle rather than a pass-through. DO worry about documenting your skills relevant to the position. 4) Do follow up with the hiring official, if you are able to determine who that is. You can even try contacting before submitting the application to see if they have someone in mind for the position. Most people will not provide this information, but some will. It can't hurt, and it might help. 5) I'll reiterate the advice already sent to read the application instructions carefully. Don't eliminate yourself by not submitting ALL college transcripts, for example. 6) I would tell you not to despair, and that if you apply enough times you'll get a job, but the sequester is real and it is having a serious effect. This is a lousy time to be looking for permanent work in the federal government. There is a near-complete hiring freeze on permanent positions in Interior, and I believe in many other Departments as well. The few jobs that are out there will have immense applicant pools. There is very little prospect of significant improvement over the next year, maybe longer. All that said, if you don't apply, your chances of getting the job really are zero. Best, Brian Mitchell Northeast Temperate Network Program Manager National Park Service
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
Hi My personal experience. I do not know if it'll help you. At least I hope to encourage you. I'm a doctor. I have worked in various fields, particularly in sexual selection in birds. Since I finished my PhD I have applied for over 50 jobs in the U.S. but also in Europe, Australia, Canada... In Spain now is almost impossible to get work in research. But also I like to travel and I have lived in several countries. Most of my applications in the U.S. were postdoctoral positions but also I have asked dozens of applications for work as a technician and assistant. For me the most important is work in science seeking the answer for good questions. I sent requests to very competitive labs and some others more modest. Some of the positions that I have applied were for work under the supervision of PhD students, postdoc or assistants professor with much lower CV than me (in papers and experience). Always I contact with the principal investigator and I don’t send the application until he answers and tells me that I have chances of getting the job. In U.S., except one time that I contacted with an investigator in whose lab I had been already working during my PhD studies (unfortunately some personal reasons mine made me miss this opportunity), I have never gotten a job, even personal or skype interview. I don’t know where is my problem since nobody tells me where is the error, my CV, the referees, error in the application, age (I´m 40 years old). Either way I will continue insisting. The only thing that prevents me for send more job applications is that it is mandatory to put two or three references and some people write to the references automatically. So, after two years sending tens of requests without getting a post, some of my contacts and referees are tired of sending letters of references and I have fear to boring then. All the best Carlos 2013/5/16 Brent Bellinger bbellinger2...@yahoo.com I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE As a federal employee for 10 years, at two different agencies, and applied to hundreds of positions I can attest that KEY WORDS ARE ESSENTIAL. Yes veterans are given extra points and current federal employees have a better chance but persistence is key. Unfortunately the initial screening process is done through a computer system or HR person that is not necessarily familiar with the position. Therefore the thing they look at are key words. Regurgitate the key words that are on the job announcement. Regurgitate the key words that are on the job announcement. Yes I said it twice. Use the form that USAJOBS provides. DO NOT UPLOAD your own version of a CV or resume. Once you have your USAJOBS resume it is relatively easy to apply for positions with minimal tweaking. The HR person then passes along the a few qualified, top scoring applicants to the hiring supervisor to determine who will get an interview. The top scoring applicant does not have to be the person offered the position. If you are not on that list from HR you are out of luck however, the hiring supervisor can always ask that a specific applicant be added to the list. If you can find out who the hiring supervisor is and give them your CV, resume you may stand a better chance or may just anger them because you did an end round the system. Matthew Voisine Biologist USACE- NY District 26 Federal Plaza Room 2151 NY, NY 10278 917.790.8718 voice 702.271.0496 mobile 212.264.0961 fax -Original Message- From: Brent Bellinger [mailto:bbellinger2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM Subject: USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
[ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
It's necessary. There are whole books on the subject. I was directed to the one by Kathryn Troutmann, but there might be others. -c ___ Christa Zweig Post-doctoral associate University of Florida, Florida Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Unit Box 110485, Bldg 810 Gainesville, FL 32611-0485 352-870-4132 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Brent Bellinger Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
It's been my experience that many of the jobs on USA jobs are already filled. They just post them because they have to by law. So if you don't get called back, I wouldn't take it as a knock on your experience or your CV. Also, if you are a vet or already in the federal government, you get preference. If you are not either of those, your chances are pretty low of getting a position. The best way in is to do a post doc and get someone who wants to work the system to get you in. I've heard managers state outright that that is what they do - even though it is not legal. Michael Garvin, PhD University of Alaska Fairbanks School of Fisheries and Ocean Sciences 17101 Point Lena Loop Road Juneau, AK 99801 907-796-5455 mrgar...@alaska.edu On May 16, 2013, at 9:24 AM, Brent Bellinger bbellinger2...@yahoo.com wrote: I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
Michael, I thought that might be true until I learned enough about writing applications for USA Jobs to start getting interviews. I got my current job without knowing anyone inside the hiring process, nor do I meet any unique hiring criteria like veterans preference, etc. From the inside, I have not seen evidence of wiring positions for candidates. The jobs are extremely competitive, and getting through the HR screening process is the first step. It helps to be willing to relocate. I probably sent 40 or more applications before I got my first interview. I understand that it is easy to be pessimistic about the process. I was. Writing a strong USA Jobs application citing specific examples of how you meet the Knowledge Skills and Abilities specified in the job posting is extremely important in getting through the HR screening process. A general CV or a 1-page resume is not going to do that in most cases. -- Andrew D. Bailey - Data Manager Wildland Fire Management RDA Rocky Mountain Research Station - DOI OWF National Interagency Fire Center, Boise ID o. 208-387-5248 c. 208-407-6711 On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Michael Garvin mrgar...@alaska.eduwrote: It's been my experience that many of the jobs on USA jobs are already filled. They just post them because they have to by law. So if you don't get called back, I wouldn't take it as a knock on your experience or your CV. Also, if you are a vet or already in the federal government, you get preference. If you are not either of those, your chances are pretty low of getting a position. The best way in is to do a post doc and get someone who wants to work the system to get you in. I've heard managers state outright that that is what they do - even though it is not legal. Michael Garvin, PhD University of Alaska Fairbanks School of Fisheries and Ocean Sciences 17101 Point Lena Loop Road Juneau, AK 99801 907-796-5455 mrgar...@alaska.edu On May 16, 2013, at 9:24 AM, Brent Bellinger bbellinger2...@yahoo.com wrote: I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
I agree that a resume with key words is helpful. When appropriate quantify the relevant experience. (e.g. Five years of lab management, six years of supervisory experience). Also, it is critical that you follow the application instructions. Many applicants eliminate themselves by not following instructions or submitting incomplete applications. Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Christa Zweig czw...@ufl.edu wrote: It's necessary. There are whole books on the subject. I was directed to the one by Kathryn Troutmann, but there might be others. -c ___ Christa Zweig Post-doctoral associate University of Florida, Florida Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Unit Box 110485, Bldg 810 Gainesville, FL 32611-0485 352-870-4132 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Brent Bellinger Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
Well that's good to hear, But I do know from internal sources that 3 if the 4 I applied for we're internal hires. I answered the top score on every question. How can you do better than 100? And as I said, I have heard it straight from the horses mouth. It's so rampant that the question came up at a job fair. One manager said he absolutely does not do that and the other said it was pretty standard. So I guess it depends on the lab. I realize that as a manager, if you have someone already in place as a post doc or contractor, it makes sense to go with someone who fits. What bothers me is that I spend time writing applications when there is zero chance I will get it. I have enough to do without blowing valuable time. M. Garvin Juneau, AK 907-957-0181 On May 16, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Sharif Branham shar...@hotmail.com wrote: I agree that a resume with key words is helpful. When appropriate quantify the relevant experience. (e.g. Five years of lab management, six years of supervisory experience). Also, it is critical that you follow the application instructions. Many applicants eliminate themselves by not following instructions or submitting incomplete applications. Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Christa Zweig czw...@ufl.edu wrote: It's necessary. There are whole books on the subject. I was directed to the one by Kathryn Troutmann, but there might be others. -c ___ Christa Zweig Post-doctoral associate University of Florida, Florida Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Unit Box 110485, Bldg 810 Gainesville, FL 32611-0485 352-870-4132 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Brent Bellinger Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
I've never really applied for any of these myself (except perhaps back in the pre-internet days!), but my understanding is that many applicants end up being disqualified for federal jobs because they fail to fill in all of the required information (e.g., beginning and starting dates of positions, etc.). So, being complete appears to be very important. Mark D. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Sharif Branham Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:16 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I agree that a resume with key words is helpful. When appropriate quantify the relevant experience. (e.g. Five years of lab management, six years of supervisory experience). Also, it is critical that you follow the application instructions. Many applicants eliminate themselves by not following instructions or submitting incomplete applications. Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Christa Zweig czw...@ufl.edu wrote: It's necessary. There are whole books on the subject. I was directed to the one by Kathryn Troutmann, but there might be others. -c __ _ Christa Zweig Post-doctoral associate University of Florida, Florida Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Unit Box 110485, Bldg 810 Gainesville, FL 32611-0485 352-870-4132 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Brent Bellinger Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
The federal hiring process has three major stumbling blocks. It used to have four. Not that long ago (3-4 yrs) most of the screenig was done by HR folks with no background in ecology/biology. Today, they only check for very basic things and then it is shipped off to the hiring official. The other three are problems for a lot of people. first, military folks get extra points. (if you are 4F or such, your out of luck even if rejected). Second, internal hires will always have an up because they know the system better (I'm talking government internal workings, not hiring system [although that is true too!]). Third, you are going up against a lot of very well qualified people. The bad thing about government jobs is that you may not have academic freedom to say or do what you want (this is not universal). However, the pay is very good, the co-workers are generally intelligent and well-qualified. There are trade-offs between university research and government research posts. YOu don't have to teach, even if at a university, this can be a plus for some, a negative for others. I have a LOT of friends working in the government (Feds/state) and frankly, I think a lot of the perception regarding positions that are filled before advertising is wrong, at least at the GS13 or below. If they were, I would never have interviewed for any, and I have interviewed for a fer GS13s, turned one down in Washington DC after having visited and realized just how urban it was! (ICK!). Seems like I interviewed for half a dozen positions in ecotox, wildlife conservation, and such over the years, but I cannot recall the exact numbers. I remember being offered one that I was ready to take and it got axed by budgets at the last minute too. That was very disappointing. You have to apply A LOT to get an interview, and don't think it goes to the most qualified applicant, if they don't like the field, they will re-open it and do regularly!!! M On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Dixon, Mark mark.di...@usd.edu wrote: I've never really applied for any of these myself (except perhaps back in the pre-internet days!), but my understanding is that many applicants end up being disqualified for federal jobs because they fail to fill in all of the required information (e.g., beginning and starting dates of positions, etc.). So, being complete appears to be very important. Mark D. -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Sharif Branham Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:16 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I agree that a resume with key words is helpful. When appropriate quantify the relevant experience. (e.g. Five years of lab management, six years of supervisory experience). Also, it is critical that you follow the application instructions. Many applicants eliminate themselves by not following instructions or submitting incomplete applications. Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Christa Zweig czw...@ufl.edu wrote: It's necessary. There are whole books on the subject. I was directed to the one by Kathryn Troutmann, but there might be others. -c __ _ Christa Zweig Post-doctoral associate University of Florida, Florida Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Unit Box 110485, Bldg 810 Gainesville, FL 32611-0485 352-870-4132 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Brent Bellinger Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:24 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume I am looking for some advice to improve my odds of getting past the initial applicant screenings in USA Jobs. As a research scientist, I've put together a pretty standard CV, which I've uploaded onto USA jobs and is used when applying for research positions. I was told recently by a non-scientist (a helicopter mechanic), the key when applying to positions through USA jobs is to make sure your resume utilizes key words which helps it rise to the top of the applicant list. A CV obviously does not have the depth of detail in terms of outlining skills, abilities, knowledge, etc. that a resume usually does. I'm wondering if I need to augment my profile and compliment my CV with a descriptive resume to help my odds of getting an interview? Is a key-word heavy resume a real and necessary thing in USA jobs, or have I just had bad luck with the past few positions I've applied to (i.e., they were not good fits with my skill set)? Thanks much for the insight on this matter. Brent Bellinger, Ph.D. post doctoral scientist U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Duluth, MN -- Malcolm L. McCallum Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry School of Biological Sciences University
Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume
As a federal employee who does hiring occasionally, I can vouch for the third stumbling block below - lots of qualified people. With the advent of electronic hiring (in the past, you had to mail in a hard copy of your application), I would get 5-7 applicants for most of the positions that I advertised. The first time I advertised electronically, I received 55 applications for a similar position. It is so much easier for folks to apply electronically and easier for them to find out about vacancies now, that the number of applicants has increased markedly. I had an experience applying for a high-level park service job a few years ago at the GS-12 level. The job description was not standard, and I felt I had a good chance of meeting the requirements and that there wouldn't be much competition - I learned after the vacancy closed that there had been over 100 applicants. Even if you have veteran's preference, that is no longer a guarantee that you will get hired. I had a temporary employee with veteran's preference from Desert Storm - excellent employee, highly qualified. He was highly ranked for a number of permanent jobs, and when I would ask the person calling for reference checks how likely it would be for him to get the job (I figured he was a shoe-in with veteran's points), they routinely told me that he had competition from at least 3-4 other highly qualified veterans. I also recommend calling the listed person on the vacancy announcement - not the HR person, but the position supervisor. You can even send them your resume directly or visit them. That was always a positive thing when I was hiring. If they took the time to do that, it helped me remember them better in the mass of applications. It also allows you to ask them questions about what skills they are looking for, and this can also help you prepare your application. Most applicants do not take that extra step. Another thing that is commonly done in the Forest Service is if I apply for a job and my current supervisor or line officer knows someone at the place where the job is, they often make a phone call for you before the vacancy announcement closes. Even if they don't know someone, they will often call their counterpart at the other office and put in a good word for you. I don't know if that helps or not, but it certainly doesn't hurt. That person is also usually able to find out if there is someone currently serving in the job temporarily (and if they have also applied for the job), or if the job is being restructured, why the last person in the job left, and other info that can be helpful in completing your application. Robyn Darbyshire, CF Forest Silviculturist and Native Plant Materials Program Lead Wallowa-Whitman National Forest 541-523-1255 please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of malcolm McCallum Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:03 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] USA jobs: CV vs. Resume The federal hiring process has three major stumbling blocks. It used to have four. Not that long ago (3-4 yrs) most of the screenig was done by HR folks with no background in ecology/biology. Today, they only check for very basic things and then it is shipped off to the hiring official. The other three are problems for a lot of people. first, military folks get extra points. (if you are 4F or such, your out of luck even if rejected). Second, internal hires will always have an up because they know the system better (I'm talking government internal workings, not hiring system [although that is true too!]). Third, you are going up against a lot of very well qualified people. The bad thing about government jobs is that you may not have academic freedom to say or do what you want (this is not universal). However, the pay is very good, the co-workers are generally intelligent and well-qualified. There are trade-offs between university research and government research posts. YOu don't have to teach, even if at a university, this can be a plus for some, a negative for others. I have a LOT of friends working in the government (Feds/state) and frankly, I think a lot of the perception regarding positions that are filled before advertising is wrong, at least at the GS13 or below. If they were, I would never have interviewed for any, and I have interviewed for a fer GS13s, turned one down in Washington DC after having visited and realized just how urban it was! (ICK!). Seems like I interviewed for half a dozen positions in ecotox, wildlife conservation, and such over the years, but I cannot recall the exact numbers. I remember being offered one that I was ready to take and it got axed by budgets at the last minute too. That was very disappointing. You have to apply A LOT to get an interview, and don't think it goes
