Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision
All good issues, but I'd turn Matt's comment around for the following "Before attending to structural and curricular details, I'd want the powers that be (and/or those willing to finance a university) to explain in very clear terms what THEIR vision of the country's future looks like". I'd love to hear this for the U.S. In this case, THEIR vision is that someday the country will have the expertise to manage its own resources without expatriate expertise, that the university will reflect "the better angels of our nature", rather than the conflicts of today, and that you can't separate nature, people and extractive industries. Most universities have been founded with their heads in the clouds and their feet in the mud. This one in its planning stages is no different. One has to plan a curriculum while at the same time making sure the toilets flush downwards! One advantage however is that it will be free of most of the bureaucracy and regulations that are stifling American universities. I'd like to thank everyone who commented. There were a lot of useful suggestions. If this really gets going and I stay involved, I'd like to come back to folks on the issues they have raised. Cheers, David On Wed, Jul 18, 201rdr2 at 8:25 PM, Matt Chew wrote: > There are many potentially devilish details to identify and consider. It's > not clear to me from David's scenario that founding a university is a good > investment. The chance that a developing country can begin producing > competitive academic-theoretical expertise in petroleum or hard mineral > extraction, processing or marketing seems remote. That expertise is > already for sale. Ecotourism and cultural tourism aspirations aren't > necessarily best served by instituting degree programs. Before attending > to structural and curricular details, I'd want the powers that be (and/or > those willing to finance a university) to explain in very clear terms what > THEIR vision of the country's future looks like, why they think founding a > university would help them realize that vision, and how long they expect > their heirs and assigns to remain in charge. > > Matthew K Chew > Arizona State University School of Life Sciences > > ASU Center for Biology & Society > PO Box 873301 > Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA > Tel 480.965.8422 > Fax 480.965.8330 > mc...@asu.edu or anek...@gmail.com > http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php > http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew > -- Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit Botany University of Hawaii 3190 Maile Way Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA 1-808-956-8218
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
A fascinating question. The first thing that comes to my mind is that all students should learn the rudiments of systems thinking, at least at the level of Donella Meadows' book _Thinking in Systems_, and some should take it much further. The nationalism you mention is a potential source of serious problems. Geology and evolutionary biology (the history of life) tie in with mining and biodiversity but also provide a broader perspective that may be very salutary. Same for world history and geography -- useful for international business and working with tourists, but also providing a bit of perspective. None of this has to be at a very deep level. A freshman-level introductory course should be enough. As for languages, I think students should learn SOME widely used language. It's probably best to give them a few choices (English, French, Chinese, Arabic, and maybe Spanish or Portuguese come to mind), although English is likely to be a popular one. Jane Shevtsov On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:25 PM, David Duffy wrote: > If you had a chance to found and direct a university in a developing, > strongly nationalistic country dependent on oil, mining and its > biodiversity (ecotourism, indigenous people), what would you have as its > curriculum? The university would cover all three fields. How should they > influence one another? How much would you involve expats? Would you insist > everyone learn English as the lingua franca so their work could receive > international attention? What should the role of the internet be? > > This is not an idle exercise or pie in the sky but one involving a country > with serious social needs,willing to make an investment in its future, even > in the face of present suffering. > > Thanks, > > David Duffy > -- > > Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit > Botany > University of Hawaii > 3190 Maile Way > Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA > 1-808-956-8218 -- - Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D. Mathematical Biology Curriculum Writer, UCLA co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org "In the long run, education intended to produce a molecular geneticist, a systems ecologist, or an immunologist is inferior, both for the individual and for society, than that intended to produce a broadly educated person who has also written a dissertation." --John Janovy, Jr., "On Becoming a Biologist"
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
Indeed, they actually have an index to measure it and are very serious about it: http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/bhutan/cache/offonce/pid/8032;jsessionid=A3FC32B92D1E7FAD9FE0061AFC8E0D9C http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/bhutan/8355028/Bhutans-Gross-National-Happiness-index.html I personally like the idea very much - people's happiness should be a priority everywhere - isn't that what everyone wants? Astrid Caldas, Ph.D. Climate Change and Wildlife Science Fellow Defenders of Wildlife 1130 17th Street N.W. Washington D.C. 20036-4604 Tel: 202-772-0229 |Fax: 202-682-1331 acal...@defenders.org | www.defenders.org http://experts.defendersblog.org/author/acaldas -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Jorge A. Santiago-Blay Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:40 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision? A zillion years ago, I attended a workshop on conservation biology here in the USA. There were three colleagues from Bhutan in attendance. With great humbleness, they discussed an idea that, if I understoods correctly, was common in their academic circles: *gross national happiness*. Peace and wellness, Jorge On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Me wrote: > The focus could be national happiness. See > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness#section_5. > > So far as sustainability is concerned, we should start with preserving as > much of the remaining natural functioning of ecosystems that evolved over > millions of millennia. For their own sake. What we will be left with > following the current "experiment" likely will be far more fragile. > > Geoff Patton > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Rob Dietz wrote: > > > Interesting question, David. The most important part of the curriculum, > > especially for a nation (and university) thinking hard about the future, > is > > steady-state economics. We need a new curriculum that addresses how to > > build an economy that can meet people's needs without undermining the > > life-support systems of the planet. This means accepting the ecological > and > > social limits to growth. And we need a new generation of economics > > professors and students who can help develop the most effective policies > and > > institutions. It looks like an auspicious time for such an educational > > overhaul. Brian Czech's latest essay in the Daly News describes the > > positive reactions of Rio+20 delegates to steady-state concepts: > > http://steadystate.org/positive-vision-international-affairs/ > > > > We can make a good start on the required economic changes by pushing to > add > > ecological economics as a critical part of what universities offer. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob Dietz > > Editor, Daly News > -- Jorge A. Santiago-Blay, PhD
[ECOLOG-L] a vision
There are many potentially devilish details to identify and consider. It's not clear to me from David's scenario that founding a university is a good investment. The chance that a developing country can begin producing competitive academic-theoretical expertise in petroleum or hard mineral extraction, processing or marketing seems remote. That expertise is already for sale. Ecotourism and cultural tourism aspirations aren't necessarily best served by instituting degree programs. Before attending to structural and curricular details, I'd want the powers that be (and/or those willing to finance a university) to explain in very clear terms what THEIR vision of the country's future looks like, why they think founding a university would help them realize that vision, and how long they expect their heirs and assigns to remain in charge. Matthew K Chew Arizona State University School of Life Sciences ASU Center for Biology & Society PO Box 873301 Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA Tel 480.965.8422 Fax 480.965.8330 mc...@asu.edu or anek...@gmail.com http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
A zillion years ago, I attended a workshop on conservation biology here in the USA. There were three colleagues from Bhutan in attendance. With great humbleness, they discussed an idea that, if I understoods correctly, was common in their academic circles: *gross national happiness*. Peace and wellness, Jorge On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Me wrote: > The focus could be national happiness. See > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness#section_5. > > So far as sustainability is concerned, we should start with preserving as > much of the remaining natural functioning of ecosystems that evolved over > millions of millennia. For their own sake. What we will be left with > following the current "experiment" likely will be far more fragile. > > Geoff Patton > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Rob Dietz wrote: > > > Interesting question, David. The most important part of the curriculum, > > especially for a nation (and university) thinking hard about the future, > is > > steady-state economics. We need a new curriculum that addresses how to > > build an economy that can meet people's needs without undermining the > > life-support systems of the planet. This means accepting the ecological > and > > social limits to growth. And we need a new generation of economics > > professors and students who can help develop the most effective policies > and > > institutions. It looks like an auspicious time for such an educational > > overhaul. Brian Czech's latest essay in the Daly News describes the > > positive reactions of Rio+20 delegates to steady-state concepts: > > http://steadystate.org/positive-vision-international-affairs/ > > > > We can make a good start on the required economic changes by pushing to > add > > ecological economics as a critical part of what universities offer. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob Dietz > > Editor, Daly News > -- Jorge A. Santiago-Blay, PhD
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
I wouldn't insist that everyone learn English in a new University/Program in a highly nationalistic country, I don't think that would go down too well. However, I would try to ensure that all University employees had every opportunity and incentive to learn English. Cheryl On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:25 PM, David Duffy wrote: > If you had a chance to found and direct a university in a developing, > strongly nationalistic country dependent on oil, mining and its > biodiversity (ecotourism, indigenous people), what would you have as its > curriculum? The university would cover all three fields. How should they > influence one another? How much would you involve expats? Would you insist > everyone learn English as the lingua franca so their work could receive > international attention? What should the role of the internet be? > > This is not an idle exercise or pie in the sky but one involving a country > with serious social needs,willing to make an investment in its future, even > in the face of present suffering. > > Thanks, > > David Duffy > -- > > Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit > Botany > University of Hawaii > 3190 Maile Way > Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA > 1-808-956-8218
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
The focus could be national happiness. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness#section_5. So far as sustainability is concerned, we should start with preserving as much of the remaining natural functioning of ecosystems that evolved over millions of millennia. For their own sake. What we will be left with following the current "experiment" likely will be far more fragile. Geoff Patton Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Rob Dietz wrote: > Interesting question, David. The most important part of the curriculum, > especially for a nation (and university) thinking hard about the future, is > steady-state economics. We need a new curriculum that addresses how to > build an economy that can meet people's needs without undermining the > life-support systems of the planet. This means accepting the ecological and > social limits to growth. And we need a new generation of economics > professors and students who can help develop the most effective policies and > institutions. It looks like an auspicious time for such an educational > overhaul. Brian Czech's latest essay in the Daly News describes the > positive reactions of Rio+20 delegates to steady-state concepts: > http://steadystate.org/positive-vision-international-affairs/ > > We can make a good start on the required economic changes by pushing to add > ecological economics as a critical part of what universities offer. > > Thanks, > Rob Dietz > Editor, Daly News
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
Interesting question, David. The most important part of the curriculum, especially for a nation (and university) thinking hard about the future, is steady-state economics. We need a new curriculum that addresses how to build an economy that can meet people's needs without undermining the life-support systems of the planet. This means accepting the ecological and social limits to growth. And we need a new generation of economics professors and students who can help develop the most effective policies and institutions. It looks like an auspicious time for such an educational overhaul. Brian Czech's latest essay in the Daly News describes the positive reactions of Rio+20 delegates to steady-state concepts: http://steadystate.org/positive-vision-international-affairs/ We can make a good start on the required economic changes by pushing to add ecological economics as a critical part of what universities offer. Thanks, Rob Dietz Editor, Daly News
Re: [ECOLOG-L] a vision?
That's a tall order, but start by understanding its cultures (power structures) and how they fit or don't fit. Understand context in all its complexities. Teach skepticism, but not ideology. Understand how long or short all three corners of the stool are. Aim to reconcile them. There's not enough information (context) to comment on the other questions. "God is in the details." --Meis van der Rohe WT - Original Message - From: "David Duffy" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:25 PM Subject: [ECOLOG-L] a vision? If you had a chance to found and direct a university in a developing, strongly nationalistic country dependent on oil, mining and its biodiversity (ecotourism, indigenous people), what would you have as its curriculum? The university would cover all three fields. How should they influence one another? How much would you involve expats? Would you insist everyone learn English as the lingua franca so their work could receive international attention? What should the role of the internet be? This is not an idle exercise or pie in the sky but one involving a country with serious social needs,willing to make an investment in its future, even in the face of present suffering. Thanks, David Duffy -- Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit Botany University of Hawaii 3190 Maile Way Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA 1-808-956-8218
[ECOLOG-L] a vision?
If you had a chance to found and direct a university in a developing, strongly nationalistic country dependent on oil, mining and its biodiversity (ecotourism, indigenous people), what would you have as its curriculum? The university would cover all three fields. How should they influence one another? How much would you involve expats? Would you insist everyone learn English as the lingua franca so their work could receive international attention? What should the role of the internet be? This is not an idle exercise or pie in the sky but one involving a country with serious social needs,willing to make an investment in its future, even in the face of present suffering. Thanks, David Duffy -- Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit Botany University of Hawaii 3190 Maile Way Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA 1-808-956-8218
