[Elecraft] K3 Strong Signals
Quote Sentiments like the one below make me think that quite a few people have not yet encountered HFpack, one of the largest ham radio interest groups. To the contrary. We have studied widely on portable operations. As we live in a remote area of Australia HF comms is not a novelty, it is absolutely vital to assist S and R people to find you when something happens. It is not a game. We (Australia) gave the world (the UN also) the Codan and Barrett radios and antennas. Australia gave the US military some sophisticated communications technology and the testing of this type of equipment is done in Outback Australia, not a convenient few hundred square miles of *desert* and because we live in an area such as this we do practice all types of HF mobile and portable comms. Backpacking around these parts can be quite difficult and dangerous, we have had many deaths over the years because communications were either inadequate or a lack of proper planning was not done correctly or worse, not done at all. I repeat, I do not expect anyone I know would be so foolish as to enter my property talking on ssb @ 100W if they bothered to look up the tower and saw the HF Quad (5 bands) and had any anticipation of a warm greeting at the door. The next multi-op operation by way of *remote* will be at Conjuboy Station (Con_jew_boy) (Ranch) which is large enough that it is marked on the road maps of Queensland. We will be running: K3 and FT-897D 10/15/20m 4 element triband yagi 80M full wave loop 40m full wave loop 30m full wave loop FT-847 6m 5 element wide spaced yagi 2m 9 element yagi 70cm 13 element yagi All within a small clearing beside a creek fed by a natural spring. I do not think we will have any issues this time either, again due to planning the operation. We all have a wide view of the hobby and I for one respect that, however I believe that NO mod is required and if done by FW then some very intense testing will need to be done as we have seen with the latest FW Beta releases the testing period was rushed and several changes had to be done. A single FW change can be fine for the intended change but can lead to problems for many owners who had no need for the change to be done. Gary Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Bruce Bowman, NM5B wrote: > From: Bruce Bowman, NM5B > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:15 AM > Unrelated to the K3 performance complaint, what happened to > the 50 watt > PEP limit for US stations on 60-m? Nothing. Has that been changed? No. But the rule is 50 ERP, defined as 50 W into a 0 dBd antenna. A mobile whip has a lot lower gain than 0 dBd, in case that's where you were headed. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Strong signals
--- On Tue, 5/5/09, rfenab...@gmail.com wrote among other stuff: "I am not having a dig at anyone here" Of course you are. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Unrelated to the K3 performance complaint, what happened to the 50 watt PEP limit for US stations on 60-m? Has that been changed? Bruce, NM5B - Original Message - From: "Robert Carroll" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > Guy- > > That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. > 73 > Bob W2WG > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, > K2AV > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response > from the > > RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across > the > antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? > S9 is > 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on > the > antenna. That's 106 over S9. > > Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind > of > desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really > want > Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I > vote > for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. > > Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio > off > the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio > distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts > externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a > formula > for wierdness no matter where the station. > > Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 > did get > toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the > K3's > fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the > front > > end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. > > Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in > World > > War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill > the > operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and > paid > for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that > reasonable. > > Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay > for > military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the > MSRP > for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in > your > driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. > > Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to > peacetime, > and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high > power > in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. > Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the > first > paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. > > We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use > filters, > stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate > with > nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from > friends, > and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which > embarrassed > > soul has to explain same to friend. > > Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low > grade > consideration. > > 73, Guy. > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Strong signals
Gary wrote: As a group (here locally) we travel to remote areas often and would not entertain using any HF band in a convoy situation. But it works *very* well, especially 160 or 75 meter SSB running 5 watts PEP or less during the day. The range is a few miles, if that. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Strong signals
Sentiments like the one below make me think that quite a few people have not yet encountered HFpack, one of the largest ham radio interest groups. Just like DXers, Contesters, QRP'ers, and kit builders, HFpack afficionados are another group of hams with like-minded interests. They like to optimize their equipment for outdoor, portable operation while holding on to the equipment, though HFPack operations also encompasses portable, mobile, and home operations as well. Often, as a social activity hams might get together and operate from nearby locations as they hike. There is also some overlap with the "green radio" (military pack) folks, who use military and commercial backpack equipment, which also works well with close-in signals on HF at the same time as more distant communications. HFPackers have been active in many areas of antenna design, portable power options, RFI/EMC, and equipment design. See http://hfpack.com/ for more info, or check out the HFPack Yahoo Group. Leigh/WA5ZNU > IMHO I would throttle anyone entering my property running 100W...period > ... > We are supposed to KNOW what we are doing and perhaps some people need to > examine the way they use the equipment and learn a little more about what > would be "best practice" when operating. > > I am not having a dig at anyone here, just suggesting that I have not > experienced the problem that started the debate, and I believe this is > because I gave a lot of thought to what I wanted to do and made sure I was > set up to achieve the result I wanted. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Strong signals
IMHO I would throttle anyone entering my property running 100W...period I have never found driving along in a *convoy* using ssb as enjoyable as 2M FM. As a group (here locally) we travel to remote areas often and would not entertain using any HF band in a convoy situation. We run multi-operations monthly on HF and 6M as well as high power VHF and UHF and experience NO issues by simply following the simple rulePlan the operation ahead of time and give the details to all who are present. We run Yaesu and Icom as well as the K3 and again, none of the overloaded front end issues have been occurring to date simply by following some basic principles of operating in this type of environment. Why do we need further mods from the manufacturer in either FW or Hardware? We are supposed to KNOW what we are doing and perhaps some people need to examine the way they use the equipment and learn a little more about what would be "best practice" when operating. I am not having a dig at anyone here, just suggesting that I have not experienced the problem that started the debate, and I believe this is because I gave a lot of thought to what I wanted to do and made sure I was set up to achieve the result I wanted. No mods has my vote because I fear the unseen changes that would develop into further changes that will have a lot of us unhappy. Sometimes it is better to allow the sleeping dog to have his restthe alternative can be painful in more ways than one. Soapbox vacated Gary Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 strong signal handling
On May 5, 2009, at 8:40 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote: > > This whole big thread did not start with anyone demanding the K3 be > modified so that we can talk to a guy in the driveway running full > power. We were discussing what we had observed and talking about > remembering to turn off the pre-amp and turn on the attenuator when a > person or two decided to call us stupid for discussing the issue. > Other people started talking about adding diodes and some ventured > speculation that the pin diodes in the TR circuit might be > contributing. I am confident that Wayne and the others understand > this and will not take any action that does not seem to improve the > product. Absolutely! > > Wayne has recommended that I do the VCO mod on my K3 which I plan to > do, but that is not a change to the product as that mod is in the > current production units. Wayne --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 strong signal handling
This whole big thread did not start with anyone demanding the K3 be modified so that we can talk to a guy in the driveway running full power. We were discussing what we had observed and talking about remembering to turn off the pre-amp and turn on the attenuator when a person or two decided to call us stupid for discussing the issue. Other people started talking about adding diodes and some ventured speculation that the pin diodes in the TR circuit might be contributing. I am confident that Wayne and the others understand this and will not take any action that does not seem to improve the product. Wayne has recommended that I do the VCO mod on my K3 which I plan to do, but that is not a change to the product as that mod is in the current production units. It sure is easy to get a war started on this reflector by trying to have an ordinary dialog about how to use the product a little more intellegently. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Eric Scace K3NA wrote: > From: Eric Scace K3NA > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 strong signal handling > To: "Wayne N6KR" > Cc: "Elecraft mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 8:24 PM > Hi Wayne -- > >I always get nervous when I see diodes proposed to clip > strong RF. > >One of the biggest problems we have in a > multi-transmitter site > (DXpedition or multi-TX contest station) is IMD generated > by diodes > rectifying RF and re-radiating the result back into the > local > environment. Even a nearby AM BC station can induce enough > voltage on > cause diodes to start rectifying. > > IMHO, if some guy wants to listen to a full-power > signal from <100m > away, it is his responsibility to insert an appropriate > external attenuator. > >I really don't want to see the performance of the K3 > (AGC on or off) > compromised in any way whatsoever to handle such an > atypical scenario. > > 73, >-- Eric K3NA > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 strong signal handling
Hi Wayne -- I always get nervous when I see diodes proposed to clip strong RF. One of the biggest problems we have in a multi-transmitter site (DXpedition or multi-TX contest station) is IMD generated by diodes rectifying RF and re-radiating the result back into the local environment. Even a nearby AM BC station can induce enough voltage on cause diodes to start rectifying. IMHO, if some guy wants to listen to a full-power signal from <100m away, it is his responsibility to insert an appropriate external attenuator. I really don't want to see the performance of the K3 (AGC on or off) compromised in any way whatsoever to handle such an atypical scenario. 73, -- Eric K3NA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 No Menu Problem
Don, thanks for your help. Problem solved by replacing R2. Regards, Jim Brown, K5JAZ On 5/5/09, Don Wilhelm wrote: > James, > > With 0.1 volts at CB U6 pin 29, I would expect that the K2 may be trying > to transmit - and that would not allow access to the menu. > So -- KEEP A DUMMY LOAD ATTACHED TO THE ANT JACK until you have the > situation resolved. > > With power off, what is the resistance reading from CB U6 pin 29 to > ground (measure both on the socket and at the chip pin, they should be > the same, but check anyway) - with the paddles open (should be a high > resistance)? How about when the dash paddle is closed (should be about > 220 ohms)? > If you read a high resistance with the paddles open (or with nothing > plugged into the key jack) and approximately 220 ohms with the dash > paddle closed, I would look carefully at the soldering of CB RP4 pins 7 > and 8 - this resistor is the pull-up for the dash line and should bring > the dash line to 5 volts with the paddle open. But if those resistance > readings are not within the realm of sanity, check CB P3 pin 17 and CB > U6 socket pin 29. Make certain U6 pin 29 is not bent under the socket > nor sticking out to the side of the socket. Also check RF Board J8 pin > 17 and the inboard end of R2. > > Let us know where you find something that does not make sense. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > > James Brown wrote: >> K2 #2535 has no menus even though all other functions appear to work. >> I did resistance and voltage checks on control board and found U6 pin >> 29 (/DASH) at .10v instead of the expected 5.0v. The 8v and 5v >> regulators are good. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
"The hardware AGC mod was implemented around S/N 280 in January 2008." It wasn't implemented in my SN308. But it is now :-) Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - SWR Indication
Several interesting topics have arisen in this discussion. Here are a couple comments... 1) Most wattmeters use a diode peak detector for each of the coupler ports (FWD, REF). The forward voltage drop of the diodes becomes an increasing source of error as power is lowered. The means than for fairly low SWRs, there is more error in the REF voltage sample, which is lower to begin with. Squaring the voltage to calculate power exaggerates the error. Very few commercial meters try to compensate for the diode drop. The LP-100A does, using a circuit similar to the one in the Tandem Match design, as well as using a dual Schottky diode on a common substrate to minimize temp variations between the detector diode and the correction diode. It is possible to get a fairly good correction for static voltage drop errors, but errors due to the dynamic inverse impedance of the diode, which is frequency dependent, can't be easily compensated for. Still, it's much better than nothing. 2) Most wattmeters use a simple coupler where samples of line current and voltage across the load are combined to obtain FWD and REF voltage samples. There are some inherent phase errors which are relative to frequency in this simple design, and magnitude errors related to parasitic coupling which limit the directivity of the coupler. Directivity determines the ultimate limit of SWR measurement error. As mentioned by K8ZOA, 30dB is an excellent broadband directivity number, but rarely achieved with high power couplers from 2-54 MHz. The LP-100A feeds the raw current and voltage samples to a gain/phase detector chip for determination of SWR, instead of combining them in the coupler. No diodes are involved, and no FWD or REF voltage samples. The meter has a frequency counter, and any phase or gain errors in the coupler samples can be calibrated out, indexed to frequency. This allows the meter to achieve >40dB directivity from 2-54 MHz. 3) Power circuitry and calculations are completely independent of SWR circuitry and calculations in the LP-100A. As long as there is about 1-2W of power, the gain/phase detector will provide the same result at any power level, with slightly reduced accuracy down to 50mW. The LP-100A uses the differential magnitude and phase samples to calculate the complex reflection coefficient, from which all other impedance and SWR numbers are derived. The meter can display REF power, but it is calculated from FWD power and reflection coefficient, not measured directly. 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith-6 wrote: > > A wattmeter built around a directional coupler always has to deal with > finite coupler directivity. Making the problem more difficult is that we > expect a wattmeter to be accurate over a rather wide frequency range, > 1.8 to 30 or even 50 MHz. This places an even greater burden upon the > directional coupler. > > If the directional coupler has 30 dB directivity--a very good number to > be maintained over a wide frequency range--then 1 KW forward power into > a perfect load will show 1 watt reflected power, corresponding to an SWR > of 1.065:1 instead of the expected 1.... for the theoretically > perfect load. > > It is possible to measure the phase and amplitude of the coupled signal > to "calibrate out" coupler imperfections. This is what is done with a > vector network analyzer when the standard "open/short/load" calibration > is applied. The VNA measures the phase and amplitude of the coupled > signal when the through port is operated into an open circuit, a short > circuit and a known value (resistance and stray L & C known) termination > for each test frequency. The VNA then computes and applies an > appropriate correction factor to correct for coupler errors. O/S/L > calibration has been supplemented by more advanced techniques in newer > VNAs. (There's a very good Application Note AN 1287-3 from Agilent on > this subject available at > http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5965-7709E.pdf. Bird > Electric has a less technical Application Note on the effect of coupler > directivity on SWR at > http://www.bird-technologies.com/techapps/app_notes/StraightTalkAboutDirectivity.pdf) > > A wattmeter using diodes to measure RF voltage used with a directional > coupler cannot apply sophisticated error correction to compensate for > finite coupler directivity. At most, one can tweak a balance pot or > trimmer cap to null the reflected signal at a single frequency and power > level. Further complications result from the forward and reverse diode > detectors being operated at different points on their sensitivity curve, > etc. > > Hence, it is far from surprising that different wattmeters will show > different SWR under ostensibly identical test conditions. > > Larry's LP-100 wattmeter operates with a different methodology and I'll > leave it to him to explain the differences and how coupler directivity > is considered. > > > Jack K8ZOA > www.cliftonlaboratories.com >
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Compression meter scale
> Does the compression setting directly correlate to the scale on the LCD? No. The CMP reading is the instantaneous amount of compression, with a bit of decay time so you can see the peak if it is changing rapidly. The value displayed in the VFO B area is just a relative number relating to the amount of rotation of the control. 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Compression meter scale
Hello all, Does the compression setting directly correlate to the scale on the LCD? For example if turn compression to 10, the actual compression amount is more like 2-3 dB instead of 10 as I would expect. The meter deflects to the 2nd or 3rd line between 0 and 10. If I turn it to 20, the meter deflects to between 10 and 20. 73 de James K3JPS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ [END of thread]
Time to end this thread. :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator Steve Ellington wrote: > Hmmm. I wonder if reducing the power supply voltage to 10 volts and using > 18ga power cable would make the K3's keying sound like the Omni VI+++? > Steve Ellington > n...@carolina.rr.com > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 No Menu Problem
K2 #2535 has no menus even though all other functions appear to work. I did resistance and voltage checks on control board and found U6 pin 29 (/DASH) at .10v instead of the expected 5.0v. The 8v and 5v regulators are good. The key jack is not shorted and measures 220ohms to ground from P3 pin 17 when the dash circuit is closed. RP4 measures 82Kohms from pins 7 to 8. When powered up, RP4 pin 7 measures 5v, but pin 8 is at .10v. Pin 8 voltage does not change when U6 is removed from socket. Any hints would be appreciated on where to go from here. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 No Menu Problem
James, With 0.1 volts at CB U6 pin 29, I would expect that the K2 may be trying to transmit - and that would not allow access to the menu. So -- KEEP A DUMMY LOAD ATTACHED TO THE ANT JACK until you have the situation resolved. With power off, what is the resistance reading from CB U6 pin 29 to ground (measure both on the socket and at the chip pin, they should be the same, but check anyway) - with the paddles open (should be a high resistance)? How about when the dash paddle is closed (should be about 220 ohms)? If you read a high resistance with the paddles open (or with nothing plugged into the key jack) and approximately 220 ohms with the dash paddle closed, I would look carefully at the soldering of CB RP4 pins 7 and 8 - this resistor is the pull-up for the dash line and should bring the dash line to 5 volts with the paddle open. But if those resistance readings are not within the realm of sanity, check CB P3 pin 17 and CB U6 socket pin 29. Make certain U6 pin 29 is not bent under the socket nor sticking out to the side of the socket. Also check RF Board J8 pin 17 and the inboard end of R2. Let us know where you find something that does not make sense. 73, Don W3FPR James Brown wrote: > K2 #2535 has no menus even though all other functions appear to work. > I did resistance and voltage checks on control board and found U6 pin > 29 (/DASH) at .10v instead of the expected 5.0v. The 8v and 5v > regulators are good. The key jack is not shorted and measures 220ohms > to ground from P3 pin 17 when the dash circuit is closed. RP4 measures > 82Kohms from pins 7 to 8. When powered up, RP4 pin 7 measures 5v, but > pin 8 is at .10v. Pin 8 voltage does not change when U6 is removed > from socket. Any hints would be appreciated on where to go from here. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.18/2098 - Release Date: 05/05/09 > 08:05:00 > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
Hmmm. I wonder if reducing the power supply voltage to 10 volts and using 18ga power cable would make the K3's keying sound like the Omni VI+++? Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Don Rasmussen" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ > > Lee, > > You're right, everyone should leave their K3 CONFIG as shipped by the > factory. Any deviation from this should carry a stiff fine from the FCC > followed up by a revocation of the station license for repeat offenders. > > ;-) > > Those ham types and their "golden screwdrivers", I tell ya. ! > > I enjoy A/B comparisons and dialing the K3 around brings me pleasure. From > the hits on the website, one or two others seem to share the idea. > > > [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ - Why? > Lee Buller k0wa at swbell.net > Tue May 5 16:41:06 EDT 2009 > > No...I've never wonder why. Should I? Could someone tell me the point of > doing this? I do not want to go back to the NC-57, the HW-100, etc. Why > do this? > > Lee :>O > > > The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun > 9am-3pm CDT > More Info at: http://www.ksqsoparty.org/ > > In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you > don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you > can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some > Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Don Rasmussen wrote: > From: Don Rasmussen > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ > To: "elecraft at mailman.qth.net" > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:10 PM > > http://tinyurl.com/canrhm > > Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > Previous message: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ > Next message: [Elecraft] KX1 Parts Question > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > More information about the Elecraft mailing list > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Mike Harris-9 wrote: > > One thing to note is that #1400 doesn't have the > hardware AGC mod installed > Are you sure? The hardware AGC mod was implemented around S/N 280 in January 2008. The blue (?) dot on the SMD diode faces toward the front panel. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-on-channel-strong-signal-overload--tp2785612p2807439.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Don't worry, Merv. Any hardware mod we might come up with for handling extremely strong in-band signals (i.e., from adjacent transmitters) would have absolutely no impact on K3 performance otherwise. Or we wouldn't do it. 73, Wayne N6KR On May 5, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Merv Schweigert wrote: > I sure do not want my K3 to act as a 897 or any other peanut radio.. --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
wayne burdick wrote: > If I add anything like this at all, it will default to OFF in a menu > entry. > > First I have to do some tests to see if in fact there's a problem. Then > I have to consider hardware vs. firmware changes, keeping in mind that > only rarely will anyone encounter such circumstances. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > How many K3s are mobile, how many are used instead of a 2 meter radio talking car to car bumper to bumper, or sitting under someones antenna in the driveway. I sure do not want my K3 to act as a 897 or any other peanut radio, I would have bought one of those if I did. As the K3 sits now it can handle stronger signals than any other radio while hearing a weak signal with no problems, using diodes has been nothing but IMD and distortion products all over the band in the old radios I have tried in the past. No diodes please. Remember all those upgrades to radios that changed out the diodes in the front end, filter switching etc. due to IMD products etc. ? I think Elecraft makes a product for that called an antenuator, buy one and stick it on the front end if the signal is too strong. Or use the gift of manual dexterity to turn down the volume/gain. I think the thread mutated as usual into one report and many replies that are not the same problem. Sure more pressing issues to deal with on the K3. Rare is good on a steak, rare is not so good when dealing with a customer base. Gain one, loose many. nuff said.Merv KH7C __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
Lee, You're right, everyone should leave their K3 CONFIG as shipped by the factory. Any deviation from this should carry a stiff fine from the FCC followed up by a revocation of the station license for repeat offenders. ;-) Those ham types and their "golden screwdrivers", I tell ya. ! I enjoy A/B comparisons and dialing the K3 around brings me pleasure. From the hits on the website, one or two others seem to share the idea. [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ - Why? Lee Buller k0wa at swbell.net Tue May 5 16:41:06 EDT 2009 No...I've never wonder why. Should I? Could someone tell me the point of doing this? I do not want to go back to the NC-57, the HW-100, etc. Why do this? Lee :>O The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun 9am-3pm CDT More Info at: http://www.ksqsoparty.org/ In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Don Rasmussen wrote: From: Don Rasmussen Subject: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ To: "elecraft at mailman.qth.net" Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:10 PM http://tinyurl.com/canrhm Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Previous message: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ Next message: [Elecraft] KX1 Parts Question Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Elecraft mailing list __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 No Menu Problem
K2 #2535 has no menus even though all other functions appear to work. I did resistance and voltage checks on control board and found U6 pin 29 (/DASH) at .10v instead of the expected 5.0v. The 8v and 5v regulators are good. The key jack is not shorted and measures 220ohms to ground from P3 pin 17 when the dash circuit is closed. RP4 measures 82Kohms from pins 7 to 8. When powered up, RP4 pin 7 measures 5v, but pin 8 is at .10v. Pin 8 voltage does not change when U6 is removed from socket. Any hints would be appreciated on where to go from here. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Mike Harris wrote: > One nasty winter's day I might just drag out the mod kit again. How > do you > know which end is which on the SMD LED? DMM :) Actually, I think the instructions cover this. 73, Wayne --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Hi Wayne, Thanks for your comment. I have the stock 2700Hz for SSB and five pole 500Hz for CW which works for me. Encouraged by some recent comments I've been playing with width and shift and find that 1800Hz BW centred on 1200Hz on SSB works very well and have loaded it into profile II. One nasty winters day I might just drag out the mod kit again. How do you know which end is which on the SMD LED? Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: "wayne burdick" To: "Mike Harris" Cc: "Elecraft Discussion List" ; "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: K3 on-channel strong signal overload? | Mike, | | The AGC mod is definitely preferred. The old AGC circuit allows in-band | signals as low as S9 to activate hardware AGC. This would cause desense | if you were using a wide crystal filter but a narrow DSP filter. The | new AGC circuit has an in-band desense threshold of more like S9+20 to | +30. | | Of course we also recommend that you have at least one narrow crystal | filter (e.g., 400 or 500 Hz) if you're using CW or narrow data modes. | This changes the definition of "in-band" to such a small value that | desense due to adjacent signals becomes very rare. | | Those really pushing the envelope should consider our 200 Hz filter. | Ask a few 160 m contest operators about this :) | | 73, | Wayne | N6KR | | On May 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Mike Harris wrote: | | > Hi Geoffrey, | > | > I guess there are no simple answers to this apart from proper operator | > intervention. I guess that is why the buttons are there. I've no | > intention of adding any diode clipping, I don't have a problem even | > with | > my S-9+60++ neighbour. One thing to note is that #1400 doesn't have | > the | > hardware AGC mod installed so it is cutting in approx 20dB before the | > latest versions. I was on the verge of doing it before this thread | > started but I've put it away again __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
If I add anything like this at all, it will default to OFF in a menu entry. First I have to do some tests to see if in fact there's a problem. Then I have to consider hardware vs. firmware changes, keeping in mind that only rarely will anyone encounter such circumstances. 73, Wayne N6KR On May 5, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > It would be great if any such automatic changes can be turned off. > ... > --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Mike, The AGC mod is definitely preferred. The old AGC circuit allows in-band signals as low as S9 to activate hardware AGC. This would cause desense if you were using a wide crystal filter but a narrow DSP filter. The new AGC circuit has an in-band desense threshold of more like S9+20 to +30. Of course we also recommend that you have at least one narrow crystal filter (e.g., 400 or 500 Hz) if you're using CW or narrow data modes. This changes the definition of "in-band" to such a small value that desense due to adjacent signals becomes very rare. Those really pushing the envelope should consider our 200 Hz filter. Ask a few 160 m contest operators about this :) 73, Wayne N6KR On May 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Mike Harris wrote: > Hi Geoffrey, > > I guess there are no simple answers to this apart from proper operator > intervention. I guess that is why the buttons are there. I've no > intention of adding any diode clipping, I don't have a problem even > with > my S-9+60++ neighbour. One thing to note is that #1400 doesn't have > the > hardware AGC mod installed so it is cutting in approx 20dB before the > latest versions. I was on the verge of doing it before this thread > started but I've put it away again --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K2] NB question re: pulse noise problem here
Thanks to those of you who responded with various suggestions. I'm going to go ahead and order the KNB2 and see if that does the job. I suspect the noise might be coming from a nearby medical facility (hospice) and being transmitted down the power lines. Even if the NB doesn't solve this "pulse' problem it may still be needed some time or other. Ron N6IB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ - Why?
No...I've never wonder why. Should I? Could someone tell me the point of doing this? I do not want to go back to the NC-57, the HW-100, etc. Why do this? Lee :>O The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun 9am-3pm CDT More Info at: http://www.ksqsoparty.org/ In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Don Rasmussen wrote: From: Don Rasmussen Subject: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+ To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:10 PM http://tinyurl.com/canrhm Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Hi Geoffrey, I guess there are no simple answers to this apart from proper operator intervention. I guess that is why the buttons are there. I've no intention of adding any diode clipping, I don't have a problem even with my S-9+60++ neighbour. One thing to note is that #1400 doesn't have the hardware AGC mod installed so it is cutting in approx 20dB before the latest versions. I was on the verge of doing it before this thread started but I've put it away again. So many hooks into the firmware, many possibilities to end up flying with crossed controls. Regards, Mike VP8NO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX1 Parts Question
Oscar, L9 is 100 uHy, not 4.7 uHy. Color code brown - black - brown = 1-0-1 The first two bands indicate the first two significant digits of the value and the 3rd band indicates the number of zeros to append to those first two digits. Yes, it is now a mini size instead of the micro. The micro size were quite fragile and are no longer available. BTW - IIRC, it *was* in the errata sheet, but apparently was inadvertently dropped with the last errata update. Either bend both leads inward and mount with the body parallel to the board OR, just mount it at a bit of an angle with one end sticking up a bit - either will work fine, the aesthetic appearance of the finished board is up to you and may influence your choice. 73, Don W3FPR Oscar Staudt wrote: > Maybe I'm being a little paranoid, but since everything else in the > instructions is SO precise, I wanted to ensure a slight part variation was > intended. - L9 (4.7uH) is specified as a "micro" size -- the smaller size - > in both the instruction text (page 31) and the parts inventory > - The only 4.7uH inductor (brn-blk-brn) sent is actually a "mini" size - > the larger size > > The inductor will fit on the board, but the leads will have to be bent right > at the point where the lead exits the device molding - and the text > indicated these inductors are very fragile. > > Question: Is the mini size L9 what you are sending now with some of the > kits? (rather than the smaller micro size) > > If so, no problem -- I'll just chunk it in there and not worry. > > BTW, alignment and test Part I went perfectly. I haven't had so much fun in > years. Great kit, great assembly manual. > > Oscar, WB5GCX > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
>> but what's the advantage of engaging the preamp and then riding the RF >> Gain? That seems like merely adding another potential source of >> non-linearity. --- You're forgetting that we are emulating an older radio, so yes, less linear than K3 would be. Now, if we emulate a future radio, it should be even more linear than K3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
Happening in sound studio's every day! Old SSL mixers, RCA tube gear, vintage legend EQ's You name it, they (and I :-) have it in software emulation. Some of them quite good actually... 73' Paul PD0PSB This is an excellent idea! Why not make a collection of settings which emulate various legacy radios? Then, whenever you miss the old radios, simply go and look up the settings for the radio you want, and presto! You are back in nostalgia land! -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-emulating-Tentec-OMNI-VI%2B-tp2801969p2804332.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
It would be great if any such automatic changes can be turned off. I like tools that let me control what happens. I'm not an avid contester, so whizzing through QSO's at breakneck speed in heavy QRN is of little interest. Understanding the impact of each part of the radio and learning how to operate it to achieve the best results under all conditions is of great interest and a source of pleasure. The less the radio anticipates what I want, the better I like it. Already, I'm constantly tripping over things that change 'per mode' or 'per band'. Sometimes it takes longer for me to figure out what the radio did to me automatically than what I want to do manually. Guess that's why I drive a car with a stick shift (and disconnected the "idiot" light that tells me when to shift ;-) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:42 AM To: n...@yahoo.com Cc: pd0psb; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload? So noted on the firmware list. I'll be doing some controlled tests with very strong signals. tnx Wayne N6KR On May 5, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: > > I started composing a message yesterday about this and got called > away. Paul has now sort of beaten me to it, but what I had written > was: > > "Seems to me that the radio ought to be smart enough to correct (at > least partially) these issues. > > If the preamp needs disabling and/or the attenuator needs engaging > then the firmware should do it." __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
This is an excellent idea! Why not make a collection of settings which emulate various legacy radios? Then, whenever you miss the old radios, simply go and look up the settings for the radio you want, and presto! You are back in nostalgia land! Then you can come back to the K3 domain any time you wish and listen to the new breed of super radio! Anyone for making a list of settings for emulating various radios? Bill W4ISH On May 5, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Don Rasmussen wrote: http://tinyurl.com/canrhm Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KX1 Parts Question
Maybe I'm being a little paranoid, but since everything else in the instructions is SO precise, I wanted to ensure a slight part variation was intended. - L9 (4.7uH) is specified as a "micro" size -- the smaller size - in both the instruction text (page 31) and the parts inventory - The only 4.7uH inductor (brn-blk-brn) sent is actually a "mini" size - the larger size The inductor will fit on the board, but the leads will have to be bent right at the point where the lead exits the device molding - and the text indicated these inductors are very fragile. Question: Is the mini size L9 what you are sending now with some of the kits? (rather than the smaller micro size) If so, no problem -- I'll just chunk it in there and not worry. BTW, alignment and test Part I went perfectly. I haven't had so much fun in years. Great kit, great assembly manual. Oscar, WB5GCX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
The AGC settings make reasonable sense to me, but what's the advantage of engaging the preamp and then riding the RF Gain? That seems like merely adding another potential source of non-linearity. 73, Dave AB7E Don Rasmussen wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/canrhm > > Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
Great stuff! Who's next with a 51s1 template :-))) 73' Paul PD0PSB Don Rasmussen wrote: > > > http://tinyurl.com/canrhm > > Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-emulating-Tentec-OMNI-VI%2B-tp2801969p2802575.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 emulating Tentec OMNI VI+
http://tinyurl.com/canrhm Ever wonder what an OMNI VI+ sounds like? Give it a try with your K3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Thanks Wayne,Wes, Nice to see that "thinking practical" about ways to make K3 even better is not always interpreted as "attacking the K3 concept" ;-) Best 73' Paul PD0PSB wayne burdick wrote: > > So noted on the firmware list. I'll be doing some controlled tests with > very strong signals. > > tnx > Wayne > N6KR > > On May 5, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: > >> >> I started composing a message yesterday about this and got called >> away. Paul has now sort of beaten me to it, but what I had written >> was: >> >> "Seems to me that the radio ought to be smart enough to correct (at >> least partially) these issues. >> >> If the preamp needs disabling and/or the attenuator needs engaging >> then the firmware should do it." > > --- > > http://www.elecraft.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-on-channel-strong-signal-overload--tp2785612p2801315.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
So noted on the firmware list. I'll be doing some controlled tests with very strong signals. tnx Wayne N6KR On May 5, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: > > I started composing a message yesterday about this and got called > away. Paul has now sort of beaten me to it, but what I had written > was: > > "Seems to me that the radio ought to be smart enough to correct (at > least partially) these issues. > > If the preamp needs disabling and/or the attenuator needs engaging > then the firmware should do it." --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
I started composing a message yesterday about this and got called away. Paul has now sort of beaten me to it, but what I had written was: "Seems to me that the radio ought to be smart enough to correct (at least partially) these issues. If the preamp needs disabling and/or the attenuator needs engaging then the firmware should do it." --- On Tue, 5/5/09, pd0psb wrote: > From: pd0psb > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload? > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:20 AM > Quite a number of radios I know disable pre-amp and enable > ATT when the AGC > voltage reaches a certain threshold. A handy way of > extending the range of > total AGC with 30/40dB without having to reach for the > knobs. Automatically > switched by firmware to catch the first unexpected RF hits. > > 73' > Paul > PD0PSB > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Yes, but then you'd mask the weaker signals underneath. Anything that requires computation, reaction, and delay (variable or otherwise) to stretch the dynamic range is a non-linearity of one type or other (time or level or both) that negatively affects the signal handling ability (either in terms of sensitivity or distortion) somewhere within its range. The thing that puzzles me about this entire thread is ... why do people want to take a world-class communication rig like the K3 and make it function like an FT-817 or a BC-455 or a Hammarlund Super-Pro or a Radio Shack Scanner or a 1940's radio for listening to NPR? Did people buy the K3 simply because it was the "in" rig without considering what they really needed? That's like buying a race horse to plow a field. If someone wants to do that, that's fine with me ... as long as they don't mess with the breed to turn that race horse into a mule. I'm honestly puzzled by some of the comments I've seen here lately ... 73, Dave AB7E pd0psb wrote: > The "pumping" is up to the FW programmer, and his/her choises of threshhold > and delay-times.. > > 73' > Paul > PD0PSB > > > That sounds like a way to effectively turn the K3 into an AGC-pumping > monster like my old 756Pro ;) > > 73, > Dave AB7E > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] ECN Report: The Rest of the Story
Kevin Rock wrote: >Now that I have all the data I find we gained a respectable total of 34 > check ins. Thank you! From the email I am receiving this could have been > larger but the pileup Tom generated was hard to break ;) Too bad I could not > have continued his run when he passed control back to me. Oh well, there is > always next week. >Until next Sunday stay dry, We're heading into the Es season which should help ECN a great deal. Last year during the late spring/summer/early fall period, Kevin was at least S8 and usually over S9 here in N. Cal on 20. Last Sun, he was NIL at my QTH, but it will pick up. Incidentally, 20 has been remaining open until fairly late [like 2300 PDT] to the right-coast and even EU and Pacific Rim. Don't just shut the rig off because the big ball of flaming gas has disappeared below the western horizon. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2009 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2009 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
The "pumping" is up to the FW programmer, and his/her choises of threshhold and delay-times.. 73' Paul PD0PSB That sounds like a way to effectively turn the K3 into an AGC-pumping monster like my old 756Pro ;) 73, Dave AB7E -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-on-channel-strong-signal-overload--tp2785612p2799851.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
That sounds like a way to effectively turn the K3 into an AGC-pumping monster like my old 756Pro ;) 73, Dave AB7E pd0psb wrote: > Quite a number of radios I know disable pre-amp and enable ATT when the AGC > voltage reaches a certain threshold. A handy way of extending the range of > total AGC with 30/40dB without having to reach for the knobs. Automatically > switched by firmware to catch the first unexpected RF hits. > > 73' > Paul > PD0PSB > > > It is also likely that the K3 Hardware AGC is maxed out and can > lower the gain no more with the resulting of overload of the ADC. > the K3 dynamic range (as good as > it is) was exceeded - everything has its limits. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Hello Steve, I totally agree with you! I get very severe overloading problems with a Winradio G313/180e and the only proposed solution by a group member was to use a smaller antenna! I'm using an horizontal loop ~96 m perimeter and with this same antenna, no problem with my K3. As i'm working mainly with JT65A(50W) and PSKnn (25W), i get very good results. For SSB, like you for CW, i will be "obliged" to add some dB to be able to be heard by a lot of stations perfectly received!( my idea is not to "break" pile-up!) 73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI (66yo ham since 1970 but "younger" since i can play with my K3 #1212!) Steve Ellington wrote: > The complaint was not "ridiculous". The original observation wasThe K3 > distorts and the FT-817 doesn't under the same conditions. > > The poor guy was called stupid, ridiculous, ignorant and told he needs to > "study" and go back to school. > > I think he has a good question and I have yet to see a logical answer. > Claims that the K3 is "souped up" and exempt from strong signal overload is > the ridiculous part! > > If the K3 distorts on 109DB signals and the FT-817 doesn't then so be it. > It's a weakness. Just leave it at that. I'm sure the 817 has plenty more > weaknesses! > > Let's not let this list get like the TenTec reflector. Mention something > negative there and you are immediately put down or soon thrown off. > > I've recently subscribed to the IC-7600 Yahoo group just to watch how the > new radio was doing. So far I've seen two concerns. Some have a dimmer > screen saver than others and a few have had to do a master reset because of > audio drop out and it's starting to look like a glitch in some 3rd party rig > control program causing that. Otherwise, everyone seems satisfied. Of > course, those guys know that ICOM isn't going to respond to anything that's > said so maybe they just don't bother. > > I'm still enjoying my K3. Things have been rather lopsided lately however. I > am able to copy cw through the QRN better than the other guy, especially > when I take advantage of the NR. This gives me er...maybe 6db advantage or > so. Therefore I've ordered an ALS-600 to help make up the difference. The > K3's superior receiver is costing me money! > Steve Ellington > n...@carolina.rr.com > - Original Message - > From: "Robert Carroll" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > > >> Guy- >> >> That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. >> 73 >> Bob W2WG >> >> -Original Message- >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net >> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, K2AV >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby >> >> Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from >> the >> >> RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the >> antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is >> 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the >> antenna. That's 106 over S9. >> >> Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of >> desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want >> Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I >> vote >> for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. >> >> Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off >> the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio >> distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts >> externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a >> formula >> for wierdness no matter where the station. >> >> Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did >> get >> toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's >> fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the >> front >> >> end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. >> >> Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in >> World >> >> War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the >> operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid >> for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. >> >> Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for >> military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP >> for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your >> driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. >> >> Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, >> and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power >> in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. >> Others may see it differen
[Elecraft] K2-Clicks on 40 m using HRD or Logger software
When using HRD or ACLog or K2 Remote (with S meter on), I hear clicking noise, particularly on 40 meters. How do I eliminate this? Anybody had this problem? -- Yves Dussault Laval, QC, Canada yvesdussa...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Quite a number of radios I know disable pre-amp and enable ATT when the AGC voltage reaches a certain threshold. A handy way of extending the range of total AGC with 30/40dB without having to reach for the knobs. Automatically switched by firmware to catch the first unexpected RF hits. 73' Paul PD0PSB It is also likely that the K3 Hardware AGC is maxed out and can lower the gain no more with the resulting of overload of the ADC. the K3 dynamic range (as good as it is) was exceeded - everything has its limits. 73, Don W3FPR -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-on-channel-strong-signal-overload--tp2785612p2799144.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Hello all, Thank you for all the responses and information, and I may look into the diode option that Wayne suggested. I like operating HF mobile a lot (just started using the K3 mobile last weekend), and very often my friends and I will both be using our HF mobile setups while driving together (in one vehicle following the other) to a hamfest. We'll both be working the same distant station on a 60M channel for example, and I just turn down the audio volume when my friend transmits and turn it back up again for the distant station. I didn't want to make too much of this overload issue, just was unaccustomed to it occurring in my K3 as my friend and I have been used to not hearing it in the other rigs we've used when operating in close proximity like this. Not a big problem. 73, Oliver -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-on-channel-strong-signal-overload--tp2785612p2798229.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
The complaint was not "ridiculous". The original observation wasThe K3 distorts and the FT-817 doesn't under the same conditions. The poor guy was called stupid, ridiculous, ignorant and told he needs to "study" and go back to school. I think he has a good question and I have yet to see a logical answer. Claims that the K3 is "souped up" and exempt from strong signal overload is the ridiculous part! If the K3 distorts on 109DB signals and the FT-817 doesn't then so be it. It's a weakness. Just leave it at that. I'm sure the 817 has plenty more weaknesses! Let's not let this list get like the TenTec reflector. Mention something negative there and you are immediately put down or soon thrown off. I've recently subscribed to the IC-7600 Yahoo group just to watch how the new radio was doing. So far I've seen two concerns. Some have a dimmer screen saver than others and a few have had to do a master reset because of audio drop out and it's starting to look like a glitch in some 3rd party rig control program causing that. Otherwise, everyone seems satisfied. Of course, those guys know that ICOM isn't going to respond to anything that's said so maybe they just don't bother. I'm still enjoying my K3. Things have been rather lopsided lately however. I am able to copy cw through the QRN better than the other guy, especially when I take advantage of the NR. This gives me er...maybe 6db advantage or so. Therefore I've ordered an ALS-600 to help make up the difference. The K3's superior receiver is costing me money! Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Robert Carroll" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > Guy- > > That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. > 73 > Bob W2WG > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, K2AV > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from > the > > RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the > antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is > 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the > antenna. That's 106 over S9. > > Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of > desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want > Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I > vote > for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. > > Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off > the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio > distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts > externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a > formula > for wierdness no matter where the station. > > Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did > get > toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's > fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the > front > > end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. > > Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in > World > > War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the > operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid > for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. > > Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for > military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP > for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your > driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. > > Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, > and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power > in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. > Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the first > paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. > > We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use > filters, > stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate > with > nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from friends, > and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which > embarrassed > > soul has to explain same to friend. > > Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low > grade > consideration. > > 73, Guy. > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mail
Re: [Elecraft] BHI HP-200 and other headphones
Hi Chris, The K3 headphone amp (National LM4811) is specified at 106dB S/N ratio so should be pretty noiseless. Using Sennheiser HD600's here with quite high sensitivity which has no noticable noise on the K3. Does the hiss remain with AF gain all the way down? A quick & dirty way to lower the residual amp noise is a small resistor network is series with the headphone output. Not so elegant but might save you from buying yet another headphone... 73' Paul PD0PSB Hi Paul, The hiss remains even with the AF gain all the way down! The front panel connector is worse than the rear connector, so I always connect the Yaesu FH 77 STA to the rear connector. Could you please tell me how to build the series resistor network? 73, Chris-OE5CSP -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/BHI-HP-200--and-other-headphones-tp2792291p2796364.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Guy- That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. 73 Bob W2WG -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, K2AV Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from the RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the antenna. That's 106 over S9. Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I vote for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a formula for wierdness no matter where the station. Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did get toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the front end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in World War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the first paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use filters, stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate with nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from friends, and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which embarrassed soul has to explain same to friend. Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low grade consideration. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from the RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the antenna. That's 106 over S9. Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I vote for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a formula for wierdness no matter where the station. Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did get toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the front end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in World War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the first paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use filters, stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate with nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from friends, and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which embarrassed soul has to explain same to friend. Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low grade consideration. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] BHI HP-200 and other headphones
Hi Chris, The K3 headphone amp (National LM4811) is specified at 106dB S/N ratio so should be pretty noiseless. Using Sennheiser HD600's here with quite high sensitivity which has no noticable noise on the K3. Does the hiss remain with AF gain all the way down? A quick & dirty way to lower the residual amp noise is a small resistor network is series with the headphone output. Not so elegant but might save you from buying yet another headphone... 73' Paul PD0PSB OE5CSP-Chris wrote: > > I recently bought Yeasu lightweight headphones for the K3 and found out, > that the K3 adds hiss with both the front and rear connectors. I have > similar problems with the K2. At the moment I use computer headphones- > they work nicely, but are not made for communication purposes.On the BHI > homepage I found 8 Ohm HP-200 headphones. Is anybody using them? BHI says > they should work pretty well with the K3, but they have actually never > used them with a K3. > I do not want to spend money again on headphones I can´t use with my K3! > > 73, Chris-OE5CSP > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/BHI-HP-200--and-other-headphones-tp2792291p2793387.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 on-channel strong signal overload?
Hi Mike, There is a penalty to be paid if diodes are used to clamp the level of strong signals in a receiver's signal path, and that is the generation of intermodulation products. In a "no-split" pile-up situation where two or more closely spaced strong signals from other callers are in the passband, but not zero beat with the DX, chances are that an intermodulation product will land on top of the DX's signal if he returns to somebody before the others stop calling. You may ask how a weak DX station could be heard at all in this situation even if intermodulation products did not exist, to which my reply must be that it is possible. >From reading the posts, my impression is that this case of in-passband strong signal overload could be viewed in the same fashion as a classic example of 3rd Order Dynamic Range droop or "bottoming". There is a similarity in the causes even though only a single signal is involved in the overload case. Among the usual causes for the dynamic range droop problem are (1) too much gain in the front end before the roofer to overcome the insertion loss of the roofer, and to maintain a useful overall noise figure, or (2) The Input IP3 of the roofer itself is too low, or (3) the 3rd Order Dynamic Range of the IF cascade and what follows is inadequate, or (4) a combination of these three. All of these are relevant when considering overload. According to my back of envelope calculations, the 3rd Order Dynamic Range of the K3's 8.215 MHz IF amplifier and the second mixer is in the region of 80db before the onset of hardware AGC, the second mixer being the dominant element. This calculation does not include the stages after the second mixer nor the roofer nor LO phase noise, so I believe that the actual in-passband dynamic range looking into the roofer would be less than 80db. I can only speculate on the effect that the application of hardware AGC might have on the dynamic range of this part of the receiver. What this means of course is that while the overall 3rd Order Dynamic Range of the K3 is very good in an enviroment where strong unwanted signals are outside of the roofer's passband, one should expect some decrease within the roofer's passband, likewise possible overload. The cure could be difficult to implement. 73, Geoff GM4ESD Mike Harris" wrote on Monday, May 04, 2009 at 7:20 PM > Just been looking through my archives. I remembered that there was a > simple mod to the K2 to overcome audio distortion in an extreme overload > environment, I installed it on my K2 and it was totally immune to > co-channel audio distortion when my very near neighbour VP8LP transmitted: > > "K2 - Improved Handling of Extremely strong (and nearby) Signals". > > Maybe the K3 architecture offers similar opportunities. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] BHI HP-200 and other headphones
I recently bought Yeasu lightweight headphones for the K3 and found out, that the K3 adds hiss with both the front and rear connectors. I have similar problems with the K2. At the moment I use computer headphones- they work nicely, but are not made for communication purposes.On the BHI homepage I found 8 Ohm HP-200 headphones. Is anybody using them? BHI says they should work pretty well with the K3, but they have actually never used them with a K3. I do not want to spend money again on headphones I can´t use with my K3! 73, Chris-OE5CSP -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/BHI-HP-200--and-other-headphones-tp2792291p2792291.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - SWR Indication
A wattmeter built around a directional coupler always has to deal with finite coupler directivity. Making the problem more difficult is that we expect a wattmeter to be accurate over a rather wide frequency range, 1.8 to 30 or even 50 MHz. This places an even greater burden upon the directional coupler. If the directional coupler has 30 dB directivity--a very good number to be maintained over a wide frequency range--then 1 KW forward power into a perfect load will show 1 watt reflected power, corresponding to an SWR of 1.065:1 instead of the expected 1.... for the theoretically perfect load. It is possible to measure the phase and amplitude of the coupled signal to "calibrate out" coupler imperfections. This is what is done with a vector network analyzer when the standard "open/short/load" calibration is applied. The VNA measures the phase and amplitude of the coupled signal when the through port is operated into an open circuit, a short circuit and a known value (resistance and stray L & C known) termination for each test frequency. The VNA then computes and applies an appropriate correction factor to correct for coupler errors. O/S/L calibration has been supplemented by more advanced techniques in newer VNAs. (There's a very good Application Note AN 1287-3 from Agilent on this subject available at http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5965-7709E.pdf. Bird Electric has a less technical Application Note on the effect of coupler directivity on SWR at http://www.bird-technologies.com/techapps/app_notes/StraightTalkAboutDirectivity.pdf) A wattmeter using diodes to measure RF voltage used with a directional coupler cannot apply sophisticated error correction to compensate for finite coupler directivity. At most, one can tweak a balance pot or trimmer cap to null the reflected signal at a single frequency and power level. Further complications result from the forward and reverse diode detectors being operated at different points on their sensitivity curve, etc. Hence, it is far from surprising that different wattmeters will show different SWR under ostensibly identical test conditions. Larry's LP-100 wattmeter operates with a different methodology and I'll leave it to him to explain the differences and how coupler directivity is considered. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
