Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

The country you may be referring to is Norway, where it has been decided to
switch off all the biggest broadcasters from FM (88-108 MHz) in 2017 as the
first country in the world, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32380222

It has been a controversial decision, I for one have critized the audio
coding used for sacrificing audio quality in an Audio Engineering Society
presentation in 2007 "Audio Quality on the Air in DAB Digital Radio in
Norway" http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~sverre/papers/07_AES-DAB-Corrected.pdf

But I cannot quite see the relevance for VHF FM for hams.


ae4pb wrote
> I'm wondering since Digital voice is replacing FM around the world how
> hard
> it would be to add another mode to the K3S? I'm not even sure what the
> standards are but one country just set the date to get rid of FM
> permanently
> and switch to DV. 
> 
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 10324





-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Digital-Voice-Mode-our-future-tp7607903p7607943.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[ae4pb]

Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question. 

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
most for the ATU to Antenna link. 



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses. 

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly... 


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8 
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  Fortunately the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.

*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter accuracy
to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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[Elecraft] Trade Band Module Kits

[Bill Robbins]

I have one each 80 meter and a 17 meter band module parts packages.. I 
would like to trade for 40 and 20 meter parts packages.  I also have the 
unpopulated board but I'm not sure if those parts  are outside of the 
band selection process. In any event I will trade either way.


Thanks

Bill

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Jerry Moore]

What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key? 
:p

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, S.N. 010324


On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>Aah Jim,
>
>Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx
>station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get
>swamped.
>
>We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>
>So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right
>Wayne?
>
>Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>
>Gary 
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: "Jim Brown" 
>Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>
>On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>
>It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many
>
>ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make
>
>a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
>though they are dead when you call.
>
>73, Jim K9YC
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 - Utility not working - Resolved???

[Bill Wiehe via Elecraft]

After some help hints from Dick (K6KR), Gary and the on-line trouble shoot 
guide; we were able to trace to issue down to a faulty DB9/KXUSB cable. We have 
ordered a new cable and will pass along any other learning that may occur 
concerning this issue.Thanks to all.73, Bill - W0BBI 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

I view that an acceptable digital mode for ham radio has been around 
since day one!   It's called CW.And at one time, it was required of 
all hams to learn to send and receive via the mode.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 6:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:

What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
:p

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, S.N. 010324


On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:

Aah Jim,

Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx
station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get
swamped.

We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.

So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right
Wayne?

Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.

Gary


-Original Message-
From: "Jim Brown" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?

It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many

ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make

a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
though they are dead when you call.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Gary]

Good grief

Gary 

-Original Message-
From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 11:04 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I view that an acceptable digital mode for ham radio has been around 
since day one!   It's called CW.And at one time, it was required of 
all hams to learn to send and receive via the mode.

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 6:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
> :p
>
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>
>
> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>> Aah Jim,
>>
>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx
>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get
>> swamped.
>>
>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>
>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right
>> Wayne?
>>
>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>
>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many
>>
>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make
>>
>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
>> though they are dead when you call.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Gary]

Eric is gonna jump on us pretty quick guys.
Lets not delve into the history of cw and it's dropping from a requirement ok.
I should have learnt cw when I was 12, after 50 I felt like had Alzheimers.
But, perseverance won, took awhile though.
Gary 

-Original Message-
From: "ae...@carolinaheli.com" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 11:26 AM
To: "'Bob McGraw - K4TAX'" ; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Yep, when I got my extra 20wpm was still required.. I'm guessing it wasn't but 
a few years after that the requirements started dropping.


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324




-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob 
McGraw - K4TAX
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:03 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I view that an acceptable digital mode for ham radio has been around 
since day one!   It's called CW.And at one time, it was required of 
all hams to learn to send and receive via the mode.

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 6:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
> :p
>
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>
>
> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>> Aah Jim,
>>
>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx 
>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get 
>> swamped.
>>
>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>
>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, 
>> right Wayne?
>>
>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>
>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the 
>> many
>>
>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to 
>> make
>>
>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
>> though they are dead when you call.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> vk1zzg...@gmail.com 
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>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> je...@carolinaheli.com


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[Elecraft] Serious weak-signal VHF operators?

[Edward R Cole]

Most VHF operators learn that there are good deals in used amps.  I 
only have one 180w 2m amp that I bought new (in 1976).  All the 
others were bought from other hams.


But one can build an amp vs buying overpriced Mirage junk.  Look at 
the 80w 2m kit that W6PQL offers.  I have actually done a little 
research into making some of them FS.  Definitely under $600.  In 
fact probably less than 50% that.


I have broached the idea of combining two for 160w with Jim Klitzing 
(W6PQL).  He sells assembled amps, too.


BTW that 180w amp in 1976 was a "Klitzing" back when he was just a 
local CA builder (and I lived in greater LA)


I have a used Mirage A1015G (6m-150w), used RFConcepts 2-30 (25w 
which I drive with my KX3-2M), used RFC 2-317 170w, two used 150w 
Securitor 222-MHz amps, used BU150 432-MHz 150w, kit for a 75-90w 432 
amp (yet to build), HF amp from a TS50, two 1296 150w W6PQL amp kits, 
and two nib Toshiba 60w 3400-MHz amps.  That's not counting my 300w 
and 140w HF amps from kits by CCI.


I think the 6m amp cost the most ($230 or so off e-bay).

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Serious weak-signal VHF operators?

[James Bennett]

Yep - that W6PQL 80 watt, all mode, 2 meter amp works great! I built one last 
year from scratch - even fabricated the case/chassis myself. First time I’d 
ever done any sheet metal work and surprisingly came out pretty darn well. The 
amp works just fine, driven by my K3.

Jim / W6JHB


> On   Friday, Sep 18, 2015, at  Friday, 11:16 AM, Edward R Cole 
>  wrote:
> 
> Most VHF operators learn that there are good deals in used amps.  I only have 
> one 180w 2m amp that I bought new (in 1976).  All the others were bought from 
> other hams.
> 
> But one can build an amp vs buying overpriced Mirage junk.  Look at the 80w 
> 2m kit that W6PQL offers.  I have actually done a little research into making 
> some of them FS.  Definitely under $600.  In fact probably less than 50% that.
> 
> I have broached the idea of combining two for 160w with Jim Klitzing (W6PQL). 
>  He sells assembled amps, too.
> 
> BTW that 180w amp in 1976 was a "Klitzing" back when he was just a local CA 
> builder (and I lived in greater LA)
> 
> I have a used Mirage A1015G (6m-150w), used RFConcepts 2-30 (25w which I 
> drive with my KX3-2M), used RFC 2-317 170w, two used 150w Securitor 222-MHz 
> amps, used BU150 432-MHz 150w, kit for a 75-90w 432 amp (yet to build), HF 
> amp from a TS50, two 1296 150w W6PQL amp kits, and two nib Toshiba 60w 
> 3400-MHz amps.  That's not counting my 300w and 140w HF amps from kits by CCI.
> 
> I think the 6m amp cost the most ($230 or so off e-bay).
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
>"Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
>dubus...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K144XV Frequency Error

[Bob]

Hi Bill,

 Under main menu look for XV OFS.  Believe has a +/- 10kc shift range 
which will move you on frequency.   If you had it right before it  may have got 
shifted or even turned off accidentally.


73,
Bob
K2TK

On 9/18/2015 6:51 PM, Bill Schwantes wrote:

Hi Folks,

I need help.  I have an early K3 equipped with the K3EXREF Frequency Lock
Option, K144XV Two Meter Module and K144XV Reference Oscillator Phase Lock
Option.

Some time after installing the KSYN3A synthesizers I noticed that the 144
Mhz band has a 5.6 KHz frequency error.  Signals occurring on the 144.200
calling frequency appear at 144.1944.

Other bands do not display this frequency error.

These observations have been verified by a very precise RF signal
generator.

I verified that the 10 Mhz GPS reference is present and meets the Elecraft
amplitude requirements. The tech mode menu "ref cal" asterisk is present
and blinking, indicating that the radio is phase locked to the 10 Mhz
reference.

I went back through the installation manuals for the options mentioned and
did not find any error.  I'm concluding that I may have made an assembly
error when installing the KSYN3a.

Can some member of the Elecraft "brain trust" help me find and resolve this
problem please?

Thanks, Bill
W7QQ



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Re: [Elecraft] K2 stuff for sale or trade.

[W0WFH Bill via Elecraft]

Some how my e mail and phone number got 
screwed up.E mail.  w0wfh@yahoo.comPhone.  573-291-5625
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Re: [Elecraft] K144XV Frequency Error

[Bill Frantz]

I just installed a 2nd receiver and the 2M ref lock. The KRX3A 
installation manual, which uses the new synths shows J4 of the 
new style main synth connected to REF IN on the 2M transverter.


The ref lock installation manual shows J83 of the old style 
synth connected to REF IN and REF OUT connected to J2 on the 
KREF3 board.


Absent advice from someone at Elecraft who knows, I would use J4 
with the new synths and the J83 with a jumper to the KREF3 board 
with the old synths.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 9/18/15 at 3:51 PM, bill4...@gmail.com (Bill Schwantes) wrote:


Hi Folks,

I need help.  I have an early K3 equipped with the K3EXREF Frequency Lock
Option, K144XV Two Meter Module and K144XV Reference Oscillator Phase Lock
Option.

Some time after installing the KSYN3A synthesizers I noticed that the 144
Mhz band has a 5.6 KHz frequency error.  Signals occurring on the 144.200
calling frequency appear at 144.1944.

Other bands do not display this frequency error.

These observations have been verified by a very precise RF signal
generator.

I verified that the 10 Mhz GPS reference is present and meets the Elecraft
amplitude requirements. The tech mode menu "ref cal" asterisk is present
and blinking, indicating that the radio is phase locked to the 10 Mhz
reference.

I went back through the installation manuals for the options mentioned and
did not find any error.  I'm concluding that I may have made an assembly
error when installing the KSYN3a.

Can some member of the Elecraft "brain trust" help me find and resolve this
problem please?

Thanks, Bill
W7QQ

---
Bill Frantz| Privacy is dead, get over| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | it.  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Scott McNealy | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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[Elecraft] Does your KDVR3 for the K3 work with the internal K144XV?

[Michael via Elecraft]

I have the K144XV 2M module installed  in my K3 and for some reason I 
cannot record
the FM repeater activity using the  KDVR3 voice recorder. In this mode it 
has never worked.
 
Is this normal and a known  problem?
 
The recorder icon shows it is recording  but when I go to play it back 
"END" just comes up and nothing  happens
 
Now if I turn my K3 to lets say the 10M  band and try to play it also just 
shows "END". However re-booting my K3  and recording 5 seconds (for ex on 
10M)than playing it back actually  has some of the 2M recording along with 
other previous recordings.
 
Also switching to 2M and doing a  playback now also works...although not 
all of the 2M recording is  there.
 
Strange?
 
Thanks,
 
Michael, n2zdb
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K144XV Frequency Error

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/18/2015 5:28 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I just installed a 2nd receiver and the 2M ref lock. The KRX3A 
installation manual, which uses the new synths shows J4 of the new 
style main synth connected to REF IN on the 2M transverter. 


I installed five synth boards. It's been a while, but I think I remember 
the instructions for the new boards having really good pix documenting 
what plugs to what, but I don't have an internal 2M transverter.


73, Jim
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[ae4pb]

Ah..when I do that folks send QLF...what the heck is that ??? LOL.. :D
Jer



Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil 
Wheeler
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 7:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Yes. Key is mounted on the side of the hand grip and labeled PTT :-)

Phil W7OX

On 9/18/15 4:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
> :p
>
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>
>
> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>> Aah Jim,
>>
>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx 
>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get 
>> swamped.
>>
>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>
>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, 
>> right Wayne?
>>
>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>
>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the 
>> many
>>
>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to 
>> make
>>
>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
>> though they are dead when you call.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[ae4pb]

LOL yeah, the sales guys are all trained to tell you that you need to order it 
if you need it. But also that the rig supports computer pc headset/electret 
mic. 

 

From: Gary [mailto:vk1zzg...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 7:50 PM
To: Jerry Moore; j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

 

Jerry,

The microphone I mentioned was I guess an inside joke with Wayne, way back when 
the dark ages got some light, a customer ordered an early k3.

Guess who didn't notice you need to order one?

The look on my face was priceless, for all the rest there's Mastercard right?

Gary 

  _  

From: Jerry Moore  
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 9:44 AM
To: Gary  ; j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key? 
:p

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, S.N. 010324



On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:

Aah Jim,

Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx station 
calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get swamped.

We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.

So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right Wayne?

Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.

Gary 


-Original Message-
From: "Jim Brown" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
 Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?

It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many 
ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make 
a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
though they are dead when you call.

73, Jim K9YC

  _  


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-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[ae4pb]

Yep, when I got my extra 20wpm was still required.. I'm guessing it wasn't but 
a few years after that the requirements started dropping.


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324




-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob 
McGraw - K4TAX
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:03 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I view that an acceptable digital mode for ham radio has been around 
since day one!   It's called CW.And at one time, it was required of 
all hams to learn to send and receive via the mode.

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 6:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
> :p
>
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>
>
> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>> Aah Jim,
>>
>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx 
>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get 
>> swamped.
>>
>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>
>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, 
>> right Wayne?
>>
>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>
>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the 
>> many
>>
>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to 
>> make
>>
>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
>> though they are dead when you call.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> vk1zzg...@gmail.com 
>> __
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>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> je...@carolinaheli.com


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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[mfsj]

Very true my main HF amps are like that both Alphas an 87A and a 9500. Other 
amps like my KPA500, Yaesu 1000 series SS units are fine to tune at low power.
Fred  N0AZZ


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S6 edge+, an AT 4G LTE smartphone 
Original message From: Edward R Cole  Date: 
09/18/2015  6:14 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: ae...@carolinaheli.com, 
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W 
Dummy Load 
Jerry,

Certainly its appropriate to tune your antenna tuner at low power.  I 
have an "ancient" Drake MN-2000 which is rated for 2000w PEP but I 
can tune it with 10w from my K3/10 with my linear off.  Then I turn 
on my station control panel which enables PTT to the amp.  Lately 
been using my AN-762 140w amp from CCI which I drive to about 120w with 5.6w.
http://www.communication-concepts.com/140-watt/

I set the tuner on the 200w range to measure fwd and ref 
power.  Sometimes I will touch up the tuner with the amp online as 
the amp and K3 are separated by 8-foot of coax and that appears to 
affect tuning (a little).  But that only takes a couple seconds.

Marking down cap settings for favorite frequencies is a good idea.

But tuning a high-power tube amp at greatly lowered output does not 
work.  Because the internal impedance of the tube shifts as anode 
current rises.  My 8877 is about 5500-ohms at 1400w so you need to 
adjust it at working voltage and current.  Input impedance changes 
radically from 100w to 1300w.

So, unless you run high-power tube amps, you probably can get away 
with tuning the antenna on low power.

Situation changes if you are using a sspa instead of tubes.

73, Ed - KL7UW

At 10:16 AM 9/18/2015, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:
>Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question.
>
>Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
>tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
>for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
>most for the ATU to Antenna link.
>
>
>
>Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
>into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
>feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
>Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
>where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
>number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
>area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
>because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
>tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
>and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses.
>
>Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
>and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
>correctly...
>
>
>Jerry Moore
>AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
>R Cole
>Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
>To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load
>
>Don't have much to say:
>
>Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
>the floor, threw can away!
>
>I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
>mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
>power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
>couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
>for short duration.
>
>The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
>where I'm keyed up longer than I should.
>
>But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
>one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
>that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8
>+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
>antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
>(no adjustment).
>
>I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
>amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
>keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
>output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  Fortunately the
>amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
>am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
>is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
>looking at 50-ohms.
>
>I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
>anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
>adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.
>
>*I operate at 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Gary]

Jerry,

The microphone I mentioned was I guess an inside joke with Wayne, way back when 
the dark ages got some light, a customer ordered an early k3.

Guess who didn't notice you need to order one?

The look on my face was priceless, for all the rest there's Mastercard right?

Gary 

-Original Message-
From: "Jerry Moore" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 9:44 AM
To: "Gary" ; "j...@audiosystemsgroup.com" 
; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key? 
:p

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, S.N. 010324



On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
Aah Jim,Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx 
station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get swamped.We 
got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO 
as standard, unlike a microphone, right Wayne?Soon as I stop chuckling I can 
drink my coffee.Gary -Original Message-From: "Jim Brown" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AMTo: 
"elecraft@mailman.qth.net" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 
Digital Voice Mode - our future?On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote: Is 
bandwidth really our biggest problem?It is during contests. Or when you're 
trying to fit in between the many ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" 
nets. And don't try to make a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd 
has claimed, even though they are dead when you call.73, Jim K9YCElecraft 
mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list 
hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to vk1zzgary@gmail.comElecraft 
mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list 
hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to je...@carolinaheli.com
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Phil Wheeler]

Yes. Key is mounted on the side of the hand grip 
and labeled PTT :-)


Phil W7OX

On 9/18/15 4:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:

What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
:p

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, S.N. 010324


On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:

Aah Jim,

Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx
station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get
swamped.

We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.

So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right
Wayne?

Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.

Gary


-Original Message-
From: "Jim Brown" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?

It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many

ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make

a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
though they are dead when you call.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> FreeDV’s emission designator is 1K20J2E.

That is the *claimed* designator.

> “J3E” is “single sideband suppressed carrier”, “single channel
> containing analog information”, and “telephony”.

It is not J3E ... it is *J2E*.

"J" is single sideband suppressed carrier,
"2" is single channel containing quantized or digital information with
the use of a modulating sub-carrier
"E" is telephony.

FreeDV uses quantized/digital (digitally sampled and encoded) voice
which is modulated onto a series of sub-carriers which are in turn
modulated into a single sideband transmitter.

1K20J2E meets the requirements of 97.3c(5) as a "phone" mode *if* one
ignores the incidental *"text" data"*.  There is a valid question
whether the "ID/text" bits ("data frame" in the FreeDV specification)
represents a second "data" channel which would make the FreeDV emission
designator 1K20J7W (SSB, two or more channels containing quantized or
digital information, combination of telephony and data transmission)
which *does not* comply with 97.3c(5) because the third character is
no longer "E".

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/18/2015 7:10 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

FreeDV’s emission designator is 1K20J2E.

The “1K20” prefix is the bandwidth. “J3E” is “single sideband suppressed 
carrier”, “single channel containing analog information”, and “telephony”. 
Totally legal.

http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php?page=FreeDV+Specification

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Sep 18, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:


Yes, digital voice is classified as Phone as long as the emission
designator has: "A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2, 3 or X as the second 
symbol; E as the third symbol." or "B or F as the first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the 
second symbol [and] E as the third
symbol."  - From §97.3c(5)

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


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[Elecraft] Button malfunction on K3 panel

[ayoshida]

I especially notice annoying malfunction on buttons, Band/Up/Down/VOX/QSK, 
Mode/Up/Down/ALT/TEST
and SUB button. These are controled by external software commend with no 
problem. For me multiple
function button seems crazy, not easy to use.

I have K2 where same kind of buttons (simple TAP and HOLD) are used. I have not 
noticed this malfunction.
I hope “easy to use” buttons are used in the next Radio.

73 de aki
ja1nlx
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Wes (N7WS)]

I tested my amp (http://sadxa.org/n7ws.html#amp) with 150' of RG8 into a 
Cantenna (almost) submerged in a bucket of water.  Wasn't CCS but okay for my 
purposes.  Using the loss in coax for an attenuator isn't unheard of.


When I was still in the work force I once had to test some cables with 100 Watts 
applied at elevated temperature (+85C) and VSWR = 3:1 @10GHz.  For a load I used 
about four feet of 0.085" semi-rigid coax (3 dB loss) shorted at the end (6 dB 
return loss) coiled up in a can of water for a load.  An amazing tribute to the 
Hughes TWTA (and its circulator) that ran for over a hundred hours during this test.


Wes  N7WS

On 9/18/2015 11:00 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:
BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF output so pretty hard to find a dummy 
load to take that.


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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[mfsj]

I can tell you this there is a world of difference between 800w and 2.5k or 
even 1.5k for that matter. I am in 0 land and very hard to break the coasts on 
a good day at times so a little extra helps break those pile ups.
Fred  N0AZZ


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S6 edge+, an AT 4G LTE smartphone 
Original message From: ae...@carolinaheli.com Date: 09/18/2015  1:16 PM 
 (GMT-06:00) To: 'Edward R Cole' , 
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W 
Dummy Load 
Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question. 

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
most for the ATU to Antenna link. 



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses. 

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly... 


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8 
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  Fortunately the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.

*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter accuracy
to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[mcduffie]

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 14:16:43 -0500, Grant Youngman wrote:

> The difference better 800W and 500W is about 2 dB. Barely noticeable. 

Two db is quite noticeable when you are in the noise.

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

There is no need, in fact it is considered objectionable, to adjust a 
tuner at full power.  It is also very hard on the components. As to an 
amp, the only way I know to adjust one is working it up to full power 
and than reducing drive to the power value you desire to operate.


For manual tuners and amps, a written "tuning chart" really comes in handy.

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 1:16 PM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question.

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
most for the ATU to Antenna link.



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses.

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly...


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  Fortunately the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.

*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter accuracy
to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
  "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
  dubus...@gmail.com

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[Elecraft] K3S schematics

[Ian]

Will the K3S schematics be posted soon?

73, Ian N8IK

K3S s/n 10111

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Tim]

Hi All,
My Cantenna has sat in a bucket since I built it many many years ago.  
No seen it as yet from our house move last month, but have not seem any 
oil stains as yet.  I am sure the boss would have told me!

73
Tim
gm4lm
On 18/09/2015 19:00, Edward R Cole wrote:

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral 
oil on the floor, threw can away!


I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and 
sometimes to mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 
500w Sierra with power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good 
to 1000-MHz).  Have a couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can 
handled double their rating for short duration.


The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new 
unit where I'm keyed up longer than I should.


But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load 
saves one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an 
antenna that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8 
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the 
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output 
transformers (no adjustment).


I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one 
tunes amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP 
filters to keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable 
of 2000w* RF output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  
Fortunately the amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever 
needed (of course I am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz 
wide).  Of course the answer is to tune antenna at lower power and 
hope the High Power amp will always be looking at 50-ohms.


I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so 
only the anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading 
has not be adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain 
and radiates well.


*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter 
accuracy to stay legal.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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[Elecraft] Bad crystal filter ?

[James C. Hall, MD]

Working with my newly constructed K3S today, I noticed that receiving through 
the FL4 crystal filter (400 hz, 8-pole) was noticeably suppressed. Through the 
FL3 (1.8 kHz) filter, an RTTY signal would be nice and strong with good S-meter 
indications. Going to 400 Hz the signal would nearly be lost and I could not 
decode it. Going to FL5 (250 Hz), the S-meter would pick up again with strong 
signals.

There's not much to check on the Config menu except the FL4 GN and it's at max 
(8 db) - not much change. 

Is there something else I should do to deal with this ?

73, Jamie
WB4YDL 

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Wes (N7WS)]

Actually, it you are talking about tube amps---typically the ones that need 
tuning---then although it may seem objectionable, tuning into the actual load, 
at the power level you are going to run is the appropriate thing to do.



On 9/18/2015 12:57 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
There is no need, in fact it is considered objectionable, to adjust a tuner at 
full power.  It is also very hard on the components. As to an amp, the only 
way I know to adjust one is working it up to full power and than reducing 
drive to the power value you desire to operate.


For manual tuners and amps, a written "tuning chart" really comes in handy.

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163


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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Edward R Cole]

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral 
oil on the floor, threw can away!


I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and 
sometimes to mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 
500w Sierra with power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably 
good to 1000-MHz).  Have a couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most 
can handled double their rating for short duration.


The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new 
unit where I'm keyed up longer than I should.


But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load 
saves one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to 
an antenna that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8 
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the 
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output 
transformers (no adjustment).


I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one 
tunes amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP 
filters to keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable 
of 2000w* RF output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take 
that.  Fortunately the amp does not change much so very little tuning 
is ever needed (of course I am on a small segment of one band about 
200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer is to tune antenna at lower 
power and hope the High Power amp will always be looking at 50-ohms.


I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so 
only the anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading 
has not be adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain 
and radiates well.


*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter 
accuracy to stay legal.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Wes (N7WS)]

The power limit for most hams and ham bands is 1.5 KW PEP output. The rules 
don't state where the output is measured.  I assume it's at the antenna since 
the transmission line is part of my transmitter's matching system.  With lossy 
lines, 2.5 KW at the line input doesn't seem unreasonable.


On 9/18/2015 1:10 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:

Who runs 2.5K ?   Uh, isn't that just a wee bit over the legal limit?

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 1:54 PM, mfsj wrote:
I can tell you this there is a world of difference between 800w and 2.5k or 
even 1.5k for that matter. I am in 0 land and very hard to break the coasts 
on a good day at times so a little extra helps break those pile ups.

Fred  N0AZZ


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S6 edge+, an AT 4G LTE smartphone 
Original message From: ae...@carolinaheli.com Date: 09/18/2015  1:16 
PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Edward R Cole' , 
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W 
Dummy Load

Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question.

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
most for the ATU to Antenna link.



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses.

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly...


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that. Fortunately the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.

*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter accuracy
to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
  "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
  dubus...@gmail.com



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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Grant Youngman]

The difference better 800W and 500W is about 2 dB. Barely noticeable. 

The difference between 2500W and 800W is about 5dB. About an S-unit. 

Grant NQ5T

Sent from my iPhone

> 
> Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
> and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Who runs 2.5K ?   Uh, isn't that just a wee bit over the legal limit?

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 1:54 PM, mfsj wrote:

I can tell you this there is a world of difference between 800w and 2.5k or 
even 1.5k for that matter. I am in 0 land and very hard to break the coasts on 
a good day at times so a little extra helps break those pile ups.
Fred  N0AZZ


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S6 edge+, an AT 4G LTE smartphone Original 
message From: ae...@carolinaheli.com Date: 09/18/2015  1:16 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
'Edward R Cole' , Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: 
[Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load
Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question.

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
most for the ATU to Antenna link.



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses.

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly...


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  Fortunately the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.

*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter accuracy
to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
  "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
  dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] (no subject)

[Wes (N7WS)]

My experience (admittedly ancient) is that good quality and Mirage said in the 
same sentence is an oxymoron, or in other words, a mirage.


RF Concepts amps were fine.


On 9/17/2015 10:30 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,9/17/2015 8:40 PM, jmlow...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
The only problem is, an amplifier to bring the 2m power output of the 2m 
option for the K3(S) up to 120w or so is around $650 (looking at Mirage) and 
120w is not all that much power, absent an antenna with very high gain. 


Remember I said yesterday that I found four vintage (meaning good quality, 
NorCal) Mirage or RF Concepts brick amps just by asking on local club 
reflectors? The most I paid was $100. All four were in good working condition. 
They put out about 150W.


73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] K3s USB built in sound card

[Howard Sherer]

Can anyone share their experience in using the K3s built in sound card with
various digital mode software including JT65.

Howard AE3T
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s USB built in sound card

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Works just fine.   No issues with WSJT-X and JT 9 or JT65.  Also works 
well with FLGIGI and HRD/DM780.   I'm running these under the Windows 10 
environment.  I use the DATA A mode on the K3S.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 8:46 PM, Howard Sherer wrote:

Can anyone share their experience in using the K3s built in sound card with
various digital mode software including JT65.

Howard AE3T
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Walter Underwood]

When CW is a digital voice mode, let me know. That is the topic of this 
discussion.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> I view that an acceptable digital mode for ham radio has been around since 
> day one!   It's called CW.And at one time, it was required of all hams to 
> learn to send and receive via the mode.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> K3S s/n 10,163
> 
> On 9/18/2015 6:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
>> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
>> :p
>> 
>> Jerry Moore
>> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>> 
>> 
>> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>>> Aah Jim,
>>> 
>>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx
>>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get
>>> swamped.
>>> 
>>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>> 
>>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right
>>> Wayne?
>>> 
>>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>> 
>>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
 Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many
>>> 
>>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make
>>> 
>>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
>>> though they are dead when you call.
>>> 
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> __
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> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Bad crystal filter ?

[James C. Hall, MD]

In response to W4TV Joe's question:

The frequency offset for the 8-pole crystal filter is 0.00 Hz.

The Pitch is 650 Hz on the K3S. And the Mark for RTTY is the standard 2125 Hz.

I've got a new 400 Hz filter on its way so I'll see what the problem is. I just 
hope it's not an RF board. I took ESD precautions very seriously while building 
it so, fingers crossed.

73, Jamie
WB4YDL

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 2:30 PM, James C. Hall, MD  wrote:
> 
> Working with my newly constructed K3S today, I noticed that receiving through 
> the FL4 crystal filter (400 hz, 8-pole) was noticeably suppressed. Through 
> the FL3 (1.8 kHz) filter, an RTTY signal would be nice and strong with good 
> S-meter indications. Going to 400 Hz the signal would nearly be lost and I 
> could not decode it. Going to FL5 (250 Hz), the S-meter would pick up again 
> with strong signals.
> 
> There's not much to check on the Config menu except the FL4 GN and it's at 
> max (8 db) - not much change. 
> 
> Is there something else I should do to deal with this ?
> 
> 73, Jamie
> WB4YDL 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Richard W. Solomon]

It means ..."send with your left foot"... 

HI HI

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 6:22 PM
To: 'Phil Wheeler'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Ah..when I do that folks send QLF...what the heck is that ??? LOL.. :D Jer



Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil 
Wheeler
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 7:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Yes. Key is mounted on the side of the hand grip and labeled PTT :-)

Phil W7OX

On 9/18/15 4:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
> :p
>
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>
>
> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>> Aah Jim,
>>
>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx 
>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get 
>> swamped.
>>
>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>
>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, 
>> right Wayne?
>>
>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>
>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the 
>> many
>>
>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to 
>> make
>>
>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
>> though they are dead when you call.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3s USB built in sound card

[Gene Gabry]

Works great! I'm only doing RTTY and PSK31 here. MMTTY through N1MM+ when in
contest mode, "AFSK A" digital mode K3S. When not in N1MM+ contest for rag
chew MMTTY straight through K3S "AFSK A". PSK31, running DATA A mode in K3S
with older version of Digipan. Plug and play, love it!

73 Gene N9TF

K3S  10057

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Howard
Sherer
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 8:46 PM
To: elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3s USB built in sound card

Can anyone share their experience in using the K3s built in sound card with
various digital mode software including JT65.

Howard AE3T
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[ae4pb]

I was trying to be funny with the mic as a key comment. I'm almost on the air 
:) hopefully tomorrow if the mail made it this far :)

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard 
W. Solomon
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:44 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

It means ..."send with your left foot"... 

HI HI

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 6:22 PM
To: 'Phil Wheeler'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Ah..when I do that folks send QLF...what the heck is that ??? LOL.. :D Jer



Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil 
Wheeler
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 7:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Yes. Key is mounted on the side of the hand grip and labeled PTT :-)

Phil W7OX

On 9/18/15 4:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key?
> :p
>
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, S.N. 010324
>
>
> On September 18, 2015 7:09:56 PM EDT, Gary  wrote:
>> Aah Jim,
>>
>> Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx 
>> station calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get 
>> swamped.
>>
>> We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.
>>
>> So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, 
>> right Wayne?
>>
>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Jim Brown" 
>> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>>
>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the 
>> many
>>
>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to 
>> make
>>
>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
>> though they are dead when you call.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

End of thread. We've well surpassed the list posting limit per hr on this one..

73,

Eric
Modulator
elecraft.com
_..._

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SP3 External Speaker details

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi William,

The enclosure was designed as an integral part of the acoustic system to 
generate a desired SP3 response. Placing additional items inside the case will 
distort this response. 

Also, The case is totally filled with speaker 'filler' material to properly 
acoustic load the driver. This will negatively impact P.S. cooling. Also there 
is no venting in the box for heat removal.

73,

Eric
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 9:39 AM, William Lagerberg PE1BSB  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I like the Speaker its looks far better then the SP8 from Yaesu i am using 
> now….., it’s for what it is a little bit expensive including tax and 
> transport to get it to holland, it will be i think around 260 dollars, but i 
> assume the quality wil make that right. And when the USB interface for the K3 
> is available it’s two for one freight costs.
> 
> But my comments:
> 
> First I would have liked a 3,5 mm headphone plug at the front. Some body 
> mentioned it and it is really a good idea.  
> 
> Next i have seen on question about room in the case for a power supply, i do 
> really like to investigate if it is possible to put a 25 / 30A power supply 
> into that empty housing. Perhaps even the one that Elecraft comments and 
> sells on it’s site SS30DV.
> 
> Is it possible somebody send a picture of the unit open.. perhaps the guys at 
> Elecraft…
> -
> Pe1bsb
> William lagerberg
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Al Lorona]

That's not so much of a bandwidth problem as a courtesy problem.

Al  W6LX
_


And don't try to make a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV
crowd has claimed, eventhough they are dead when you call.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks let's close this thread. Clearly people are not self moderating when 
posts exceed ten plus in a short period on a topic.

Please, take discussions off list when there are an excessive number of 
postings in a short period as this one. It is not necessary to wait for me to 
shut down a thread.

There also was an excessive amount of copied text on many of these posts, 
clogging the list for others. Please delete most of the copied prior postings, 
and the footers, when replying.

Also, it is not necessary to try to be the person with the last word..

73,

Eric
Moderator
elecraft.com
_..._

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Re: [Elecraft] K3s USB built in sound card

[Wes (N7WS)]

So far not good.  See: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Mic-VOX-interaction-tt7606353.html#none


After a follow up query to HQ, I got this response from Wayne:

"Our DSP engineer identified this issue himself a couple of weeks ago while I 
was on vacation, and it's now on my list. I'll bump it up in priority."


Still waiting.

On 9/18/2015 6:46 PM, Howard Sherer wrote:

Can anyone share their experience in using the K3s built in sound card with
various digital mode software including JT65.

Howard AE3T



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Digital-Voice-Mode-our-future-tp7607903p7608026.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Well ...it seems pretty clear.

Part 97.3 states: "(6) PEP (peak envelope power). The average power 
supplied to the antenna transmission line by a transmitter during one RF 
cycle at the crest of the modulation envelope taken under normal 
operating conditions."


Part 97. 313 states "(b) No station may transmit with a transmitter 
power exceeding 1.5 kW PEP" There are specific lower power limits as 
applied to certain bands, i.e. 30M and 60M etc.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 3:36 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:
The power limit for most hams and ham bands is 1.5 KW PEP output. The 
rules don't state where the output is measured.  I assume it's at the 
antenna since the transmission line is part of my transmitter's 
matching system.  With lossy lines, 2.5 KW at the line input doesn't 
seem unreasonable.


On 9/18/2015 1:10 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:

Who runs 2.5K ?   Uh, isn't that just a wee bit over the legal limit?

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/18/2015 1:54 PM, mfsj wrote:
I can tell you this there is a world of difference between 800w and 
2.5k or even 1.5k for that matter. I am in 0 land and very hard to 
break the coasts on a good day at times so a little extra helps 
break those pile ups.

Fred  N0AZZ


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S6 edge+, an AT 4G LTE 
smartphone Original message From: 
ae...@carolinaheli.com Date: 09/18/2015  1:16 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
'Edward R Cole' , Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question.

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same 
thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few 
MW at

most for the ATU to Antenna link.



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a 
TS-850

into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my 
antennas

where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for 
each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one 
the air

because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was 
all set

and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses.

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 
500w

and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly...


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf 
Of Edward

R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral 
oil on

the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and 
sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra 
with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  
Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their 
rating

for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new 
unit

where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load 
saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an 
antenna

that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output 
transformers

(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one 
tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP 
filters to

keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that. Fortunately 
the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of 
course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course 
the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will 
always be

looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so 
only the

anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and 
radiates well.


*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter 
accuracy

to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
  "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
  dubus...@gmail.com

Re: [Elecraft] (no subject)

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/18/2015 1:46 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:
My experience (admittedly ancient) is that good quality and Mirage 
said in the same sentence is an oxymoron, or in other words, a mirage.


Wes,

Do you include the original ('70s vintage from NorCal) in that assessment?

73, Jim
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[Elecraft] FS K2 with options

[W0WFH Bill via Elecraft]

For Sale:
LoadedElecraft K2/100 with KAT 100 Auto Antenna TunerOptions: 100 watt 
amplifier and RS 232 IO KSB2SSB ADAPTER K60XV-MAND TRANSVERTER ADAPTER 
KNB2NOISE BLANKER KAF2AUDIO FILTER AND REAL TIME CLOCK K160RX160 METER MODULE 
WITH RX ANTENNA  SWITCH. MH2HAND MIC TOPCOVER WITH BATTERY FOR QRP (CONDITION 
OF BATTERY UNKNOWN) ALLMANUALS
 $1295.00PLUS SHIPPING

XV50 6 METER TRANSVERTER $295.00XV144 2 METER TRANSVERTER $295.00PLUSSHIPPINGI 
am selling off my K2 equipment to upgrade my main station K3.  When yourretired 
just can't afford to keep everthing. :(

BillHudson W0WFH1706Hwy CCLinn,Missouri 65051w0wfh@yahoo.com573-291-5625
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Gary]

Aah Jim,

Yes, "Emergency Nets" and SSTV, it is stunning how you here a dx station 
calling, you answer and by being so cheeky, you suddenly get swamped.

We got'em over here too, you folks are not alone.

So glad Elecraft supplied a VFO as standard, unlike a microphone, right Wayne?

Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee.

Gary 


-Original Message-
From: "Jim Brown" 
Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
> Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?

It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many 
ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make 
a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
though they are dead when you call.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K144XV Frequency Error

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

A wild guess - did you have an offset turned on in the menu before you 
installed the K3EXREF?
I assume you have both the K3EXREF option along with the K144RFLK 
options for best stability of the K144XV.

Check the XVn OFS menu parameter.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/18/2015 6:51 PM, Bill Schwantes wrote:

Hi Folks,

I need help.  I have an early K3 equipped with the K3EXREF Frequency Lock
Option, K144XV Two Meter Module and K144XV Reference Oscillator Phase Lock
Option.

Some time after installing the KSYN3A synthesizers I noticed that the 144
Mhz band has a 5.6 KHz frequency error.  Signals occurring on the 144.200
calling frequency appear at 144.1944.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?


It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many 
ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make 
a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even 
though they are dead when you call.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency reference for the K3 directly off a GPS

[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

I have done some more experimenting now with my poor man's 10 MHz reference.
The ublox Neo-7 GPS is a lousy frequency reference in most respects, except
that it is accurate in keeping exactly 10 million periods per second. My
experience is that the K3 has enough internal averaging to deal with that.

Using a ublox Neo-7 (USD 12 on Ebay) and a 74HC04 as a driver to feed the 10
MHz to the 50 ohm input of the K3EXREF the K3 accepts the input and I see
the star in REF*CAL blinking. 

The reference frequency now starts at 49,379,680 and stabilizes to
49,279,650 after some 15-20 minutes. My initial setting for the reference
was 49,379,640 which I determined manually when the K3 was new in 2009 or
so.

I am going to write this up on my blog with schematics eventually.



Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) wrote
> Some recent GPS modules (ublox Neo 7) have a programmable output that in
> addition to the 1 pps output can be programmed even to output 10 MHz. This
> output has a lot of jitter as it seems to be derived from a 48 MHz clock
> which is divided down in such a way as to generate a mix of short and long
> cycles but so that the average frequency is maintained accurately at 10
> MHz.
> 
> A description can be found here 
> https://sites.google.com/site/g4zfqradio/u-blox_neo-6-7 and performance is
> partly described here:
> https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2014-August/086257.html
> 
> My question is regarding the K3 external reference input. Is this source
> good enough to drive the K3 reference? Can the K3 clean up the jitter
> internally, or does the K3 require a source with much less phase noise?





-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Frequency-reference-for-the-K3-directly-off-a-GPS-tp7606275p7607984.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] FW: KAT500 - Utility not working

[Bill Wiehe via Elecraft]

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Re: [Elecraft] Bad crystal filter ?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Jamie,

What is the offset (FL# FRQ)?

What is the PITCH in the K3S vs. MARK in your RTTY software?

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/18/2015 3:30 PM, James C. Hall, MD wrote:

Working with my newly constructed K3S today, I noticed that receiving through 
the FL4 crystal filter (400 hz, 8-pole) was noticeably suppressed. Through the 
FL3 (1.8 kHz) filter, an RTTY signal would be nice and strong with good S-meter 
indications. Going to 400 Hz the signal would nearly be lost and I could not 
decode it. Going to FL5 (250 Hz), the S-meter would pick up again with strong 
signals.

There's not much to check on the Config menu except the FL4 GN and it's at max 
(8 db) - not much change.

Is there something else I should do to deal with this ?

73, Jamie
WB4YDL

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Fred Jensen]

Would HF digital voice be classified as Voice/Image because it started 
out as analog voice [and thus be confined to the Voice/Image sub-bands], 
or as RTTY/Data because the actual transmitted signal is digital [and 
thus confined to the RTTY/Data sub-bands]?  Different emission standards 
apply to each of the sub-bands.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 9/18/2015 2:19 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?


It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many
ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make
a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
though they are dead when you call.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Walter Underwood]

FreeDV’s emission designator is 1K20J2E.

The “1K20” prefix is the bandwidth. “J3E” is “single sideband suppressed 
carrier”, “single channel containing analog information”, and “telephony”. 
Totally legal.

http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php?page=FreeDV+Specification

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, digital voice is classified as Phone as long as the emission
> designator has: "A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2, 3 or X 
> as the second symbol; E as the third symbol." or "B or F as the first symbol; 
> 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol [and] E as the third
> symbol."  - From §97.3c(5)
> 
> 73,
> 
>  ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
> On 9/18/2015 6:23 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> Would HF digital voice be classified as Voice/Image because it started
>> out as analog voice [and thus be confined to the Voice/Image sub-bands],
>> or as RTTY/Data because the actual transmitted signal is digital [and
>> thus confined to the RTTY/Data sub-bands]?  Different emission standards
>> apply to each of the sub-bands.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Fred K6DGW
>> - Northern California Contest Club
>> - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
>> - www.cqp.org
>> 
>> On 9/18/2015 2:19 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
 Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?
>>> 
>>> It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many
>>> ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make
>>> a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
>>> though they are dead when you call.
>>> 
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Bad crystal filter ?

[Don Wilhelm]

Jamie,

Is there any chance that you have installed the 400Hz filter backwards.  
Several have reported similar results from that problem.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/18/2015 3:30 PM, James C. Hall, MD wrote:

Working with my newly constructed K3S today, I noticed that receiving through 
the FL4 crystal filter (400 hz, 8-pole) was noticeably suppressed. Through the 
FL3 (1.8 kHz) filter, an RTTY signal would be nice and strong with good S-meter 
indications. Going to 400 Hz the signal would nearly be lost and I could not 
decode it. Going to FL5 (250 Hz), the S-meter would pick up again with strong 
signals.




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[Elecraft] XV220

[W0WFH Bill via Elecraft]

Hello all;
I would like to trade a XV50 or XV144 for a XV220 transverter.
I am getting ready to sell off my K2 station an alloptions. More information 
too follow. 

So I can up grade my K3 which I love.  

73, Bill Hudson, W0WFH1706 Hwy CCLinn, Mo. 65051573-291-5625w0...@yahoo.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Yes, digital voice is classified as Phone as long as the emission
designator has: "A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2, 3 
or X as the second symbol; E as the third symbol." or "B or F as the 
first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol [and] E as the third

symbol."  - From §97.3c(5)

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/18/2015 6:23 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

Would HF digital voice be classified as Voice/Image because it started
out as analog voice [and thus be confined to the Voice/Image sub-bands],
or as RTTY/Data because the actual transmitted signal is digital [and
thus confined to the RTTY/Data sub-bands]?  Different emission standards
apply to each of the sub-bands.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 9/18/2015 2:19 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?


It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many
ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make
a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, even
though they are dead when you call.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Bad crystal filter ?

[Jerry Moore]

There's a process in the owners manual for adjusting dB loss compensation for 
the roofing filters. You can see it with the k3 utility

On September 18, 2015 4:57:39 PM EDT, "Joe Subich, W4TV"  
wrote:
>
>Jamie,
>
>What is the offset (FL# FRQ)?
>
>What is the PITCH in the K3S vs. MARK in your RTTY software?
>
>73,
>
>... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>On 9/18/2015 3:30 PM, James C. Hall, MD wrote:
>> Working with my newly constructed K3S today, I noticed that receiving
>through the FL4 crystal filter (400 hz, 8-pole) was noticeably
>suppressed. Through the FL3 (1.8 kHz) filter, an RTTY signal would be
>nice and strong with good S-meter indications. Going to 400 Hz the
>signal would nearly be lost and I could not decode it. Going to FL5
>(250 Hz), the S-meter would pick up again with strong signals.
>>
>> There's not much to check on the Config menu except the FL4 GN and
>it's at max (8 db) - not much change.
>>
>> Is there something else I should do to deal with this ?
>>
>> 73, Jamie
>> WB4YDL
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> __
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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[Elecraft] KXFL3 won't engage on 6 meters

[Robin Bayer]

Just noticed that I am unable to engage the installed  KXFL3 on 6 meters.

Works on all the other bands.

Menu selection Rx xFIL is set to nor.

Dual watch isn't on.

Any suggestions?

Rob
KA5QQA

K2, KX3
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:17 AM, Richard W. Solomon wrote:

Give me the Nice sound of a well engineered WB FM audio any day.


The problem is that, like AM, especially wide AM, it's a real spectrum 
hog. Which is why NBFM is used.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/18/2015 1:42 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:
Actually, it you are talking about tube amps---typically the ones that 
need tuning---then although it may seem objectionable, tuning into the 
actual load, at the power level you are going to run is the 
appropriate thing to do. 


Absolutely. The dynamic impedance of the tube varies with power level. 
Tube amps should ALWAYS be tuned at full power AND with the actual load 
attached. K6XX has observed that the distortion rises when the load is 
not matched to the amplifier. To do that without overstressing the tube, 
I always tune with dits.


I never tune with a dummy load except when testing a radio or amp. 
Instead, I have created a "cheat sheet" of amplifier tuning settings for 
every band and every antenna, so that when I start tuning, I'm close. I 
always find a clear frequency, send my dits, and get out of the way 
fast. :)


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency reference for the K3 directly off a GPS

[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

I've got some questions about the type of GPS module I'm using. It is a ublox
NEO-7M. The nice feature of this unit is that it has a programmable output
which nominally excites an LED at 1 pulse per second, but which also can be
programmed to 10 MHz. That output is not connected, so one needs to make a
connection to it oneself.



Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) wrote
> I have done some more experimenting now with my poor man's 10 MHz
> reference. The ublox Neo-7 GPS is a lousy frequency reference in most
> respects, except that it is accurate in keeping exactly 10 million periods
> per second. My experience is that the K3 has enough internal averaging to
> deal with that.





-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Frequency-reference-for-the-K3-directly-off-a-GPS-tp7606275p7607989.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K144XV Frequency Error

[Bill Schwantes]

Hi Folks,

I need help.  I have an early K3 equipped with the K3EXREF Frequency Lock
Option, K144XV Two Meter Module and K144XV Reference Oscillator Phase Lock
Option.

Some time after installing the KSYN3A synthesizers I noticed that the 144
Mhz band has a 5.6 KHz frequency error.  Signals occurring on the 144.200
calling frequency appear at 144.1944.

Other bands do not display this frequency error.

These observations have been verified by a very precise RF signal
generator.

I verified that the 10 Mhz GPS reference is present and meets the Elecraft
amplitude requirements. The tech mode menu "ref cal" asterisk is present
and blinking, indicating that the radio is phase locked to the 10 Mhz
reference.

I went back through the installation manuals for the options mentioned and
did not find any error.  I'm concluding that I may have made an assembly
error when installing the KSYN3a.

Can some member of the Elecraft "brain trust" help me find and resolve this
problem please?

Thanks, Bill
W7QQ
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

[Edward R Cole]

Jerry,

Certainly its appropriate to tune your antenna tuner at low power.  I 
have an "ancient" Drake MN-2000 which is rated for 2000w PEP but I 
can tune it with 10w from my K3/10 with my linear off.  Then I turn 
on my station control panel which enables PTT to the amp.  Lately 
been using my AN-762 140w amp from CCI which I drive to about 120w with 5.6w.

http://www.communication-concepts.com/140-watt/

I set the tuner on the 200w range to measure fwd and ref 
power.  Sometimes I will touch up the tuner with the amp online as 
the amp and K3 are separated by 8-foot of coax and that appears to 
affect tuning (a little).  But that only takes a couple seconds.


Marking down cap settings for favorite frequencies is a good idea.

But tuning a high-power tube amp at greatly lowered output does not 
work.  Because the internal impedance of the tube shifts as anode 
current rises.  My 8877 is about 5500-ohms at 1400w so you need to 
adjust it at working voltage and current.  Input impedance changes 
radically from 100w to 1300w.


So, unless you run high-power tube amps, you probably can get away 
with tuning the antenna on low power.


Situation changes if you are using a sspa instead of tubes.

73, Ed - KL7UW

At 10:16 AM 9/18/2015, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

Forgive me in advance if this is a stupid question.

Is there any reason you have to tune at full power? It seems to me that
tuning can be accomplished easily with much lower power. The same thing goes
for the ATU to the antenna. I don't see why we need more than a few MW at
most for the ATU to Antenna link.



Rightly or wrongly when I was in the hobby the first time I ran a TS-850
into an SB-220 to an MFJ roller tuner connected to an antenna switch
feeding: 80m inverted V, 30m/40m rotatable dipoles, and a triband beam.
Whenever I tuned on the inverted V or outer band limits of where my antennas
where tuned I ended up putting labels on the ATU on cap position and a
number/clock combo that represented a roller inductor position for each band
area I cared about. It ended up I rarely had to tune up anything one the air
because I knew where the antenna tuning was using just the Rig and ATU;
tuned the APM into a paintcan MFJ load then switch it inline. I was all set
and never had issues when I needed to kick in the horses.

Now my debate is 500w vs 800w... there's a larger difference between 500w
and 800w than between 800w and 2.5kw signal wise if I understand
correctly...


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Suggestion - 500W Dummy Load

Don't have much to say:

Had a Cantenna from Heath in the 60's - knocked over; spilt mineral oil on
the floor, threw can away!

I have acquired "dry" loads over the years rated into UHF and sometimes to
mw at flea markets and swaps.  My highest power load is 500w Sierra with
power meter and switch for 150 or 500w (probably good to 1000-MHz).  Have a
couple Bird terminations rated 50w.  Most can handled double their rating
for short duration.

The hardest duty on my loads is when optimizing the output of a new unit
where I'm keyed up longer than I should.

But I do have a question on how adjusting a tuner into a 50-ohm load saves
one from transmitting a signal once the tuner is connected to an antenna
that may not be 50-ohms.  On 600m my inverted-L is Z = 0.8
+j680.  Tuning into a 50-ohm load does nothing to help match the
antenna.  The amplifier is solid state with input and output transformers
(no adjustment).

I think, unless you use a high power tetrode or triode, that no one tunes
amplifiers anymore.  Solid state amps are broadband and need LP filters to
keep from amplifying harmonics.  BTW my 2m-8877 is capable of 2000w* RF
output so pretty hard to find a dummy load to take that.  Fortunately the
amp does not change much so very little tuning is ever needed (of course I
am on a small segment of one band about 200-KHz wide).  Of course the answer
is to tune antenna at lower power and hope the High Power amp will always be
looking at 50-ohms.

I do not have a QRO 2m antenna tuner but the antenna SWR < 1.25 so only the
anode tuning needs a light adjustment occasionally (loading has not be
adjusted for 8 years).  My "dummy load" has 19.2 dBd gain and radiates well.

*I operate at 1365w CW which allows for about 9% variance in meter accuracy
to stay legal.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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delivered to 

[Elecraft] KAT500 - Utility not working

[Bill Wiehe via Elecraft]

I discover a problem with my KAT500 in that the Utility shows that no Software 
is loaded. It still received signals from the computer as I can control it from 
HRD but I cannot make changes via the Utility. The cable Interface Cable shows 
only "flashing red" light. To this point I have confirmed the computer com 
ports are functioning properly. The cables are all attached. I have changed the 
cable input point to confirm it is not the computer port that is the problem. I 
even tried to reload  my previously saved configuration to no avail. The 
Utility screen continues to say that no software is loaded. And yes I reloaded 
the Utility program on the computer. Any help or insight would be appreciated 
as I have never had a problem to this point. Thank you in advance.Bill - W0BBI
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Stephen Shearer]

from some reading I have done recently, D-star is an open source from 
Japan ham community.


I agree, if it's not open, it's not ham radio.

We use FM on 10, 6, and 2 - modes included in the KX3/K3s, maybe the 
future should include d-star.


73, steve WB3LGC

On 17-Sep-15 9:28 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.
Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk to
everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only talk
to those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as you have
selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to shut out
those who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.

I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my
not so humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:

Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF
and UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[ae4pb]

Let me re-phrase the question:

How hard would it be to implement a new mode on the K3S? 

I am having a blast learning all of the menus and how to do things.. I never
actually realized how many functions and settings there are (even after
reading the manuals). There's a lot that doesn't seem to be in the book
(most are intuitive) and some that takes a bit of digging. 
Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Sverre
Holm (LA3ZA)
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:33 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

The country you may be referring to is Norway, where it has been decided to
switch off all the biggest broadcasters from FM (88-108 MHz) in 2017 as the
first country in the world, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32380222

It has been a controversial decision, I for one have critized the audio
coding used for sacrificing audio quality in an Audio Engineering Society
presentation in 2007 "Audio Quality on the Air in DAB Digital Radio in
Norway" http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~sverre/papers/07_AES-DAB-Corrected.pdf

But I cannot quite see the relevance for VHF FM for hams.


ae4pb wrote
> I'm wondering since Digital voice is replacing FM around the world how 
> hard it would be to add another mode to the K3S? I'm not even sure 
> what the standards are but one country just set the date to get rid of 
> FM permanently and switch to DV.
> 
> Jerry Moore
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 10324





-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications:
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Digital-Voice-Mode-our-future-tp7607
903p7607943.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[ae4pb]

My understanding is that we as a community "self-police". If we find an OM out 
of band or transmitting an out of spec signal we do the neighborly thing and 
help them fix it. I don't believe anyone (there are lids..other than them) 
intentionally transmits a poor signal. My view is that much of the younger 
generation are more into the operational than the "here's out it works and 
why". If you approach them with kindness and a helpful attitude you'll find 
that you can get it all done while making a new friend ;).

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:18 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Comparisons with single signal stations seems irrelevant.

Is anybody addressing the issue of QRM from other stations?   I suspect 
digital will fold -- especially when one is trying to detect one out of many or 
a station immersed in splatter from one or more stations.

The ability of the mind to pull out an individual station in the analog QRMed 
world would seem to be lost.  This is best illustrated by people being able to 
decode one voice of many at a party.

Here the switch to digital TV has been frustrating.  Stations which had 
previously been received acceptably are spotty.   The digital cliff 
effects are a killer.   The one station we really like to watch (PBS 55 
miles away, two edge diffraction reception) is greatly effected by day/night, 
the seasons and weather conditions. Admittedly some of degradation is due to 
the move from VHF to UHF. However I suspect that an analog transmission on the 
same frequencies would still be 
watchable.   Part of the problem at UHF is enhancement of multipath 
effects.  (Also DTV apparently is transmitting with 6db less power which is 
supposed to be made up by the digital decoding at the reception end. 
)  One sees this with a highly directional high gain antenna.   A 
station will drop out and if you bump the antenna a few degrees, it will return 
and then drop out.  It is a dance between the rotor to try to 
keep a station locked.If these multipath effects are so significant 
for digital, single signal one might expect the problem to exist in spades on 
HF.  Anybody who has looked at WWV carrier transmissions on a high resolution 
FFT display can see several distinct signals due to 
multipath shifted by up to 2 Hz at times.   The strongest of the bunch 
moves from FFT bin to bin.  As a side note, those HDTV stations who stayed on 
low VHF channels have had no end of problems.

Apples and oranges perhaps.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 9/18/2015 2:16 AM, Gary wrote:
> Don,
>
> Absolutely spot on sir.
>
> Gary
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Don Wilhelm" 
> Sent: ‎18/‎09/‎2015 11:30 AM
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?
>
> You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.
> Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
> That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk 
> to everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only 
> talk to those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as 
> you have selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to 
> shut out those who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.
>
> I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my 
> not so humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
>> Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF and 
>> UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.
>>
>>
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> vk1zzg...@gmail.com 
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> als...@nc.rr.com
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4419/10658 - Release Date: 
> 09/17/15

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[brian]

Comparisons with single signal stations seems irrelevant.

Is anybody addressing the issue of QRM from other stations?   I suspect 
digital will fold -- especially when one is trying to detect one out of 
many or a station immersed in splatter from one or more stations.


The ability of the mind to pull out an individual station in the analog 
QRMed world would seem to be lost.  This is best illustrated by people 
being able to decode one voice of many at a party.


Here the switch to digital TV has been frustrating.  Stations which had 
previously been received acceptably are spotty.   The digital cliff 
effects are a killer.   The one station we really like to watch (PBS 55 
miles away, two edge diffraction reception) is greatly effected by 
day/night, the seasons and weather conditions. Admittedly some of 
degradation is due to the move from VHF to UHF. However I suspect that 
an analog transmission on the same frequencies would still be 
watchable.   Part of the problem at UHF is enhancement of multipath 
effects.  (Also DTV apparently is transmitting with 6db less power which 
is supposed to be made up by the digital decoding at the reception end. 
)  One sees this with a highly directional high gain antenna.   A 
station will drop out and if you bump the antenna a few degrees, it will 
return and then drop out.  It is a dance between the rotor to try to 
keep a station locked.If these multipath effects are so significant 
for digital, single signal one might expect the problem to exist in 
spades on HF.  Anybody who has looked at WWV carrier transmissions on a 
high resolution FFT display can see several distinct signals due to 
multipath shifted by up to 2 Hz at times.   The strongest of the bunch 
moves from FFT bin to bin.  As a side note, those HDTV stations who 
stayed on low VHF channels have had no end of problems.


Apples and oranges perhaps.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 9/18/2015 2:16 AM, Gary wrote:

Don,

Absolutely spot on sir.

Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Don Wilhelm" 
Sent: ‎18/‎09/‎2015 11:30 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.
Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk to
everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only talk
to those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as you have
selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to shut out
those who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.

I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my
not so humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:

Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF and UHF 
bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.



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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4419/10658 - Release Date: 09/17/15


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Robert Nobis]

Don,

To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary 
technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many of the 
products and technologies we use today started out as “proprietary” 
technologies. Also, much of the history of ham radio is based on experimenting 
and trying new technologies and techniques. 

At least one of these digital technologies, DMR, is no longer really 
proprietary. There are at least 20 manufacturers of DMR radios, worldwide.  
True, DMR was not originally developed for use by hams, but it clearly is a 
product technology that many hams are now using on the VHF and UHF bands, even 
though I doubt we will ever see DMR on the HF bands. 

73,


Bob Nobis - N7RJN
n7...@nobis.net


> On Sep 17, 2015, at 18:28, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.  
> Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
> That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk to 
> everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only talk to 
> those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as you have 
> selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to shut out those 
> who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.
> 
> I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my not so 
> humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
>> Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF and 
>> UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> maybe the future should include d-star.

The baud rate of D-Star is too high for the current HF regulations.  In
addition, it is 6K00F7W ... F7W is only authorized above 51 MHz.

Finally, I'm not sure anyone would appreciate 6 kHz wide digital voice
signals in the already crowded HF bands.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/18/2015 7:49 AM, Stephen Shearer wrote:

from some reading I have done recently, D-star is an open source from
Japan ham community.

I agree, if it's not open, it's not ham radio.

We use FM on 10, 6, and 2 - modes included in the KX3/K3s, maybe the
future should include d-star.

73, steve WB3LGC

On 17-Sep-15 9:28 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.
Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk to
everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only talk
to those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as you have
selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to shut out
those who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.

I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my
not so humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:

Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF
and UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.



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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 - Utility not working

[Gary]

Bill,
Check baud rate. Could be you are not connected to the kat500 hence no fw 
upload to your PC.
Gary 

-Original Message-
From: "Bill Wiehe via Elecraft" 
Sent: ‎18/‎09/‎2015 9:53 PM
To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 - Utility not working

I discover a problem with my KAT500 in that the Utility shows that no Software 
is loaded. It still received signals from the computer as I can control it from 
HRD but I cannot make changes via the Utility. The cable Interface Cable shows 
only "flashing red" light. To this point I have confirmed the computer com 
ports are functioning properly. The cables are all attached. I have changed the 
cable input point to confirm it is not the computer port that is the problem. I 
even tried to reload  my previously saved configuration to no avail. The 
Utility screen continues to say that no software is loaded. And yes I reloaded 
the Utility program on the computer. Any help or insight would be appreciated 
as I have never had a problem to this point. Thank you in advance.Bill - W0BBI
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Jerry Moore]

I'll never knowingly support a proprietary protocol in Amateur Radio.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Greg 
Troxel
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 12:29 PM
To: Robert Nobis
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

(trying to be brief and return to being on-topic :-)

Robert Nobis  writes:

> To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary 
> technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many 
> of the products and technologies we use today started out as 
> “proprietary” technologies. Also, much of the history of ham radio is 
> based on experimenting and trying new technologies and techniques.

There's a big difference between an implementation that has a patent and a 
protocol that has an essential patent such that you may not legally implement 
the protocol without a patent license.  The problem with all digital voice 
modes except FreeDV is the patented and undocumented AMBE codec.

> At least one of these digital technologies, DMR, is no longer really 
> proprietary. There are at least 20 manufacturers of DMR radios, 
> worldwide.  True, DMR was not originally developed for use by hams, 
> but it clearly is a product technology that many hams are now using on 
> the VHF and UHF bands, even though I doubt we will ever see DMR on the 
> HF bands.

DMR uses AMBE, so it's proprietary, because you (apparently; law is
hard) can't build and sell a DMR radio without a patent license.  An individual 
ham may not legally homebrew and use a DMR radio without a patent license.  One 
can't distribute Free Software that implements DMR on software radio.  There 
are many vendors, and they seem to mostly interoperate.  DMR is much like 
D-STAR, in that the container protocol is open or mostly open, but the codec is 
not.  This leads to big manufacturers paying patent licenses and individuals 
buying pre-programmed DSP chips to run the secret code that could have been run 
in their regular computer, if not for the patent (e.g., the "DV Dongle").

If Elecraft wanted to put D-STAR or DMR into the K3/KX3, besides the work, they 
would have to get a patent license for the codec.  That seems unlikely - and it 
would make me unhappy to be indirectly paying for something that I think 
doesn't belong in ham radio (well said, Don) and should not be permitted by the 
rules.

On the other hand, I suspect that implementing D-STAR with codec2 (VHF), or 
FreeDV, would just be implementation work, with no licenses and no extra 
hardware.  It doesn't seem like there's critical mass yet for that to make 
sense, though.

73 de n1dam
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[brian]

Robust maybe but hardly speedy further out.
Here are some bit rates from HORIZON space craft:
Jupiter Flyby - 35 kbps
Pluto - 2000 bps
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Mission/Spacecraft/Data-Collection.php

The bit rate drops to hundreds of bits/second further out.

73 de Brian/K3KO


On 9/18/2015 16:17 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

Digital tends to be either perfect armchair copy, or fairly unusable.

It's going to depend a whole lot on how it's encoded, the data rate, 
and how much error detection and correction is used.


Bump up the data rate, do some forward error correction and it's 
likely to be fairly robust.  Some of the methods used by NASA to 
encode signals from deep space probes are incredibly robust.


-- Lynn

On 9/18/2015 1:18 AM, brian wrote:
Is anybody addressing the issue of QRM from other stations?   I 
suspect digital will fold -- especially when one is trying to detect 
one out of many or a station immersed in splatter from one or more 
stations. 


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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4419/10661 - Release Date: 
09/18/15





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Digital tends to be either perfect armchair copy, or fairly unusable.

It's going to depend a whole lot on how it's encoded, the data rate, and 
how much error detection and correction is used.


Bump up the data rate, do some forward error correction and it's likely 
to be fairly robust.  Some of the methods used by NASA to encode signals 
from deep space probes are incredibly robust.


-- Lynn

On 9/18/2015 1:18 AM, brian wrote:
Is anybody addressing the issue of QRM from other stations?   I 
suspect digital will fold -- especially when one is trying to detect 
one out of many or a station immersed in splatter from one or more 
stations. 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Greg Troxel]

(trying to be brief and return to being on-topic :-)

Robert Nobis  writes:

> To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary
> technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many
> of the products and technologies we use today started out as
> “proprietary” technologies. Also, much of the history of ham radio is
> based on experimenting and trying new technologies and techniques.

There's a big difference between an implementation that has a patent and
a protocol that has an essential patent such that you may not legally
implement the protocol without a patent license.  The problem with all
digital voice modes except FreeDV is the patented and undocumented AMBE
codec.

> At least one of these digital technologies, DMR, is no longer really
> proprietary. There are at least 20 manufacturers of DMR radios,
> worldwide.  True, DMR was not originally developed for use by hams,
> but it clearly is a product technology that many hams are now using on
> the VHF and UHF bands, even though I doubt we will ever see DMR on the
> HF bands.

DMR uses AMBE, so it's proprietary, because you (apparently; law is
hard) can't build and sell a DMR radio without a patent license.  An
individual ham may not legally homebrew and use a DMR radio without a
patent license.  One can't distribute Free Software that implements DMR
on software radio.  There are many vendors, and they seem to mostly
interoperate.  DMR is much like D-STAR, in that the container protocol
is open or mostly open, but the codec is not.  This leads to big
manufacturers paying patent licenses and individuals buying
pre-programmed DSP chips to run the secret code that could have been run
in their regular computer, if not for the patent (e.g., the "DV
Dongle").

If Elecraft wanted to put D-STAR or DMR into the K3/KX3, besides the
work, they would have to get a patent license for the codec.  That seems
unlikely - and it would make me unhappy to be indirectly paying for
something that I think doesn't belong in ham radio (well said, Don) and
should not be permitted by the rules.

On the other hand, I suspect that implementing D-STAR with codec2 (VHF),
or FreeDV, would just be implementation work, with no licenses and no
extra hardware.  It doesn't seem like there's critical mass yet for that
to make sense, though.

73 de n1dam
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Walter Underwood]

The D-Star protocol is published and open, but all the radios use a 
proprietary, licensed voice codec (AMBE). Also, Icom has registered the 
trademark “D-STAR”.

It would be possible to run D-Star with an open source codec (like Codec2), but 
it probably would not interoperate with other D-Star radios. Codec2 was 
developed by Dave Rowe, VK5DGR.

Some people have argued that the proprietary AMBE codec is equivalent to 
encryption, and not legal for US amateur radio us. I could buy that.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Stephen Shearer  wrote:
> 
> from some reading I have done recently, D-star is an open source from Japan 
> ham community.
> 
> I agree, if it's not open, it's not ham radio.
> 
> We use FM on 10, 6, and 2 - modes included in the KX3/K3s, maybe the future 
> should include d-star.
> 
> 73, steve WB3LGC
> 
> On 17-Sep-15 9:28 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.
>> Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
>> That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk to
>> everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only talk
>> to those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as you have
>> selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to shut out
>> those who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.
>> 
>> I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my
>> not so humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
>>> Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF
>>> and UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Richard W. Solomon]

I fail to see why folks are getting excited over DMR. To me, the audio sounds 
Terrible. Perhaps it's just the excitement of being on the bleeding edge.

Similar problems happened with FM when it was narrow-banded. Give me the 
Nice sound of a well engineered WB FM audio any day.

Also, who remembers the fiasco with the LA Fire Departments trial with 
DMR some years ago. 

Digital voice has NO place in a well engineered product such as Elecraft 
Produces.

Just one mans opinion.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Walter 
Underwood
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:02 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

The D-Star protocol is published and open, but all the radios use a 
proprietary, licensed voice codec (AMBE). Also, Icom has registered the 
trademark “D-STAR”.

It would be possible to run D-Star with an open source codec (like Codec2), but 
it probably would not interoperate with other D-Star radios. Codec2 was 
developed by Dave Rowe, VK5DGR.

Some people have argued that the proprietary AMBE codec is equivalent to 
encryption, and not legal for US amateur radio us. I could buy that.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Stephen Shearer  wrote:
> 
> from some reading I have done recently, D-star is an open source from Japan 
> ham community.
> 
> I agree, if it's not open, it's not ham radio.
> 
> We use FM on 10, 6, and 2 - modes included in the KX3/K3s, maybe the future 
> should include d-star.
> 
> 73, steve WB3LGC
> 
> On 17-Sep-15 9:28 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other.
>> Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes.
>> That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind.  Ham Radio is "everyone can talk 
>> to everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only 
>> talk to those hams who have purchased the same brand of equipment as 
>> you have selected is more like commercial circuits where you want to 
>> shut out those who do not 'speak the same language that you do'.
>> 
>> I don't think proprietary protocols belong on the ham bands - just my 
>> not so humble opinion.  Yes, I am also opposed to proprietary data modes.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 9/17/2015 9:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
>>> Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the 
>>> VHF and UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Robert Nobis]

I suspect nearly all commercially manufactured equipment for the ham radio 
market has some patents associated with the design and technology.


Bob Nobis - N7RJN
n7...@nobis.net


> On Sep 18, 2015, at 09:29, Greg Troxel  wrote:
> 
> (trying to be brief and return to being on-topic :-)
> 
> Robert Nobis  writes:
> 
>> To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary
>> technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many
>> of the products and technologies we use today started out as
>> “proprietary” technologies. Also, much of the history of ham radio is
>> based on experimenting and trying new technologies and techniques.
> 
> There's a big difference between an implementation that has a patent and
> a protocol that has an essential patent such that you may not legally
> implement the protocol without a patent license.  The problem with all
> digital voice modes except FreeDV is the patented and undocumented AMBE
> codec.
> 
>> At least one of these digital technologies, DMR, is no longer really
>> proprietary. There are at least 20 manufacturers of DMR radios,
>> worldwide.  True, DMR was not originally developed for use by hams,
>> but it clearly is a product technology that many hams are now using on
>> the VHF and UHF bands, even though I doubt we will ever see DMR on the
>> HF bands.
> 
> DMR uses AMBE, so it's proprietary, because you (apparently; law is
> hard) can't build and sell a DMR radio without a patent license.  An
> individual ham may not legally homebrew and use a DMR radio without a
> patent license.  One can't distribute Free Software that implements DMR
> on software radio.  There are many vendors, and they seem to mostly
> interoperate.  DMR is much like D-STAR, in that the container protocol
> is open or mostly open, but the codec is not.  This leads to big
> manufacturers paying patent licenses and individuals buying
> pre-programmed DSP chips to run the secret code that could have been run
> in their regular computer, if not for the patent (e.g., the "DV
> Dongle").
> 
> If Elecraft wanted to put D-STAR or DMR into the K3/KX3, besides the
> work, they would have to get a patent license for the codec.  That seems
> unlikely - and it would make me unhappy to be indirectly paying for
> something that I think doesn't belong in ham radio (well said, Don) and
> should not be permitted by the rules.
> 
> On the other hand, I suspect that implementing D-STAR with codec2 (VHF),
> or FreeDV, would just be implementation work, with no licenses and no
> extra hardware.  It doesn't seem like there's critical mass yet for that
> to make sense, though.
> 
> 73 de n1dam
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Given that most QSOs are less than interplanetary distances, and given 
that 8 kilobits will probably do for voice, I think we're okay.


73 -- Lynn

On 9/18/2015 9:57 AM, brian wrote:

Robust maybe but hardly speedy further out.
Here are some bit rates from HORIZON space craft:
Jupiter Flyby - 35 kbps
Pluto - 2000 bps
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Mission/Spacecraft/Data-Collection.php

The bit rate drops to hundreds of bits/second further out.

73 de Brian/K3KO


On 9/18/2015 16:17 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

Digital tends to be either perfect armchair copy, or fairly unusable.

It's going to depend a whole lot on how it's encoded, the data rate, 
and how much error detection and correction is used.


Bump up the data rate, do some forward error correction and it's 
likely to be fairly robust.  Some of the methods used by NASA to 
encode signals from deep space probes are incredibly robust.


-- Lynn

On 9/18/2015 1:18 AM, brian wrote:
Is anybody addressing the issue of QRM from other stations?   I 
suspect digital will fold -- especially when one is trying to detect 
one out of many or a station immersed in splatter from one or more 
stations. 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Al Lorona]

I'm sorry, I don't begrudge anybody wanting to experiment with digital voice, 
but every time I listen to audio clips of DV I am appalled by the sound 
quality. I have to prefer SSB almost every single time. 


The examples on that site of DV with a 20 dB SNR are pretty awful. Thy soun 
like litte slivrs of ound drop ut of thee sndstream and it drves e crzy.

I wasn't even aware that there was a third letter in the VK5's suffix until I 
heard the original analog audio.

Why are we so obsessed with occupied bandwidth? I just tuned the entire 20 
meter phone band and heard a total of seven stations in that 200 kHz segment. 
The same goes for 40 at night. Is bandwidth really our biggest problem?




Al W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

On 9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

I'm sorry, I don't begrudge anybody wanting to experiment with digital voice, 
but every time I listen to audio clips of DV I am appalled by the sound 
quality. I have to prefer SSB almost every single time.
SSB has been around for decades, and we're pretty good at it, but there 
was a time when people said "I don't begrudge anyone experimenting with 
SSB, but every time I listen to it, I'm appalled, I'll take AM any day."


I'm not arguing for DV just because it's digital.  We should get excited 
about DV when it becomes "better" in some way.  Just like the adoption 
of SSB.


In the meantime, we can experiment.

73 -- Lynn
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