[Elecraft] RRC set sold, Elecraft RRK0CBL cable still avlb

[Howard Sherer]

Elecraft RRK0CBL cable for the K30 to the RRC 1258 $30.

Howard AE3T
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[Elecraft] Low activity

[Szabó István]

During last week I got very few e-mails. Is it low activity or e-mails 
lost somewhere?


73, István ha4zd

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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Grant Youngman]

September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts for the (nearly) first 
half of the month.

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100


> On Sep 13, 2019, at 1:46 PM, Szabó István  wrote:
> 
> During last week I got very few e-mails. Is it low activity or e-mails lost 
> somewhere?
> 
> 73, István ha4zd
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[rv6amark via Elecraft]

Re:  "September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts..."      I can 
fix that:   What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   Sorry, just couldn't 
resist  ;-)   Mark,   KE6BB 
 Original message From: Grant Youngman  
Date: 9/13/19  10:58 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: Szabó István  Cc: 
Elecraft Refl  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity 
September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts for the (nearly) first 
half of the month.Grant NQ5TKX3 (8342)/KXPA100> On Sep 13, 2019, at 1:46 PM, 
Szabó István  wrote:> > During last week I got very few 
e-mails. Is it low activity or e-mails lost somewhere?> > 73, István ha4zd> > 
__> Elecraft 
mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: 
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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[David Gilbert]

In my case the best, or at least the most desirable, is always the one I 
don't have.


Dave   AB7E



On 9/13/2019 12:25 PM, rv6amark via Elecraft wrote:

Re:  "September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts..."      I can 
fix that:   What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   Sorry, just couldn't resist  
;-)   Mark,   KE6BB


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Wayne Burdick]

> What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   

Rhombic or Sterba curtain. Unless you're doing pedestrian mobile, in which 
case...AX1 :)


> September has been fairly quiet

Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that some 
aren't posting as often as usual.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Grant Youngman]

In the meantime, the rest of us are too busy daydreaming about being able to go 
K4ing … :-)

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100

> Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that 
> some aren't posting as often as usual.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

The one that will almost fit on your available space.

On 9/13/2019 12:25 PM, rv6amark via Elecraft wrote:

Re:  "September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts..."      I can 
fix that:   What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   Sorry, just couldn't resist;-) 
   Mark,   KE6BB

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[Elecraft] KX2 Color Scheme

[eric norris via Elecraft]

Dazzle Camo or International Orange
73 Eric WD6DBM

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[David Haines]

Well, the best antenna for me so far is the only one I have, a 51' G5RV 
Junior dipole 30' above ground fed with ladder line into my KX-3 with 
KXP100.  (I also have a Buddipole for remote operation.)


Given that you can never have enough antennas, what should I add?  My 
situation is perfect, with no houses except mine around, no power lines, 
and plenty of space.


Here's my thinking at the moment:

1.  I already have a new G5RV that I could probably string between some 
really tall trees to give me a dipole perpendicular to the one I have.  
Need a launcher, though.


2.  I love to climb, and the kid in me would put up a 250' tower on the 
hill behind the house, but my wife keeps showing me articles about 
friends dying when they fall off roofs.  And I'm not excited about 
putting a lot of metal in the air at our historic farm, anyway.  A 
mono-pole might be OK.


3. We have a barn connected to the house with peak at about 35 feet 
(that's where one end of the G5RV Jr. is attached.)  It would be easy to 
put something against it, say a mast with a hinged anchor mount on the 
ground, then attach a line up 30 on the mast and pull it up from inside 
the barn.  Would be easy to lower, I think.  Not sure what I would put 
on top yet, though, maybe start small.


Of course I'd like to buy a K4, but for now, any antenna thoughts?

david

KC1DNY



On 9/13/2019 3:28 PM, David Gilbert wrote:


In my case the best, or at least the most desirable, is always the one 
I don't have.


Dave   AB7E



On 9/13/2019 12:25 PM, rv6amark via Elecraft wrote:
Re:  "September has been fairly quiet. Only around 160 posts..."    
  I can fix that:   What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???  
 Sorry, just couldn't resist ;-)   Mark,   KE6BB


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[rich hurd WC3T]

Good job poking the sleeping bear.   ;)

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:46 PM Szabó István  wrote:

> During last week I got very few e-mails. Is it low activity or e-mails
> lost somewhere?
>
> 73, István ha4zd
>
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Jim Brown]

On 9/13/2019 1:02 PM, David Haines wrote:

but for now, any antenna thoughts?


1. Buy and study the ARRL Antenna Book.

2. Study the antenna tutorials and applications notes on my website. 
k9yc.com/publish.htm


3. Unless you're in the middle of nowhere with no neighbors to create RF 
noise, stick to resonant antennas fed with coax.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] K3S issues

[Roger]

Good evening,

1.
when I turned on the K3S tonight I noticed that the current display was
jumping between 1,4 and 2,7 Amperes on idle. Never saw the rig doing it
before. The actual current consumption didn´t change but the readout of the
K3S only. That approx. +1,3 A also was noticed on transmit. Checking the
circuit diagram I see a 0,005 ohm current sense resistor (R3). The voltage
drop goes into a current sense monitor ((U6) and finally into a
multi/demultiplexer (U6.1). 
As I already had a bad (=oscillating) op amp in the temperature readout
circuit I wonder if bad luck struck twice and I got a bad current sensor or
multi/demultiplexer?
Now as the radio ran for a while and warmed up I don´t see the jump in the
current display anymore.

2. not really an issue but maybe a software fix is possible
the Noise Gate level is very much on the edge. With the handmicrophone and
in particular with a desk microphone the mic gain level has to be set very
carefully on the conservative side. That is the mic gain has to be set just
at the point where the signal becomes a little bit weaker compared to the
asymptotic setting where a maximum is reached and no increase possible
anymore even though there is still headroom in the mic gain range (received
on a remote SDR). However even with mic gain just set under the maximum
permissible value and the Noise Gate level set to max (25) still an
occasional popping can be heard by pushing and holding the ptt but no
ambient noise. If the mic gain level is set to the permissible limit (ALC
deflection) the noise gate doesn’t work anymore and an high frequent noise
is coming along with the signal. No it is not the fan of the powersupply as
I ran the station on a convection cooled linear powersupply and everything
else in the shack muted. I even switched off the fan in the K3S which I
normally leave running on "1". The compressor setting has NO effect at all
on the point where the Noise Gate releases.
The question is whether it is possible to have the firmware changed for more
headroom in setting the Noise Gate level as the range from 0 to 15 is almost
useless.


73/Roger - DL5RBW 




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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

Put up a Rhombic favoring the direction of your most wanted DX.
It can be used as a multi-band antenna with lots of gain.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/13/2019 4:02 PM, David Haines wrote:
Well, the best antenna for me so far is the only one I have, a 51' G5RV 
Junior dipole 30' above ground fed with ladder line into my KX-3 with 
KXP100.  (I also have a Buddipole for remote operation.)


Given that you can never have enough antennas, what should I add?  My 
situation is perfect, with no houses except mine around, no power lines, 
and plenty of space.

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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Nr4c]

Are we still looking for a Nov/Dec shipping date?   

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:50 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:
> 
> In the meantime, the rest of us are too busy daydreaming about being able to 
> go K4ing … :-)
> 
> Grant NQ5T
> KX3 (8342)/KXPA100
> 
>> Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that 
>> some aren't posting as often as usual.
>> 
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

A 50 ohm dummy load.   There's never any noise, never any QRM, the 
frequency is always clear, and always a 1:1 SWR.   Of course getting a 
DXCC is much more of a challenge.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 9/13/2019 2:25 PM, rv6amark via Elecraft wrote:

Re:  "September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts..."      I can 
fix that:   What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   Sorry, just couldn't resist;-) 
   Mark,   KE6BB


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[hawley, charles j jr]

Good idea. A fellow ham I worked with once had a rhombic favoring the south 
pole many decades ago. He was a significant communications option for an 
expedition down there. It was a unique ham radio experience.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 3:42 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> Put up a Rhombic favoring the direction of your most wanted DX.
> It can be used as a multi-band antenna with lots of gain.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 9/13/2019 4:02 PM, David Haines wrote:
>> Well, the best antenna for me so far is the only one I have, a 51' G5RV 
>> Junior dipole 30' above ground fed with ladder line into my KX-3 with 
>> KXP100.  (I also have a Buddipole for remote operation.)
>> Given that you can never have enough antennas, what should I add?  My 
>> situation is perfect, with no houses except mine around, no power lines, and 
>> plenty of space.
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[Elecraft] G5RV info

[Ken G Kopp]

All ...

It might be enlightening to Google the G5RV antenna...

The design by Lou Varney, G5RV first appeared in the RSGB Bulletin
and was designed as a 20M -->ONLY<-- antenna, with a specific combination
of open wire and coax lengths.  (I have a copy of the original article.)

As I often say … There's nothing new in antennas since the '30's ... only
the names, usually for "marketing" reasons.  Even the common "J-pole" is a
"Zep", only (usually) mounted vertically.

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP
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[Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Ken G Kopp]

Rhombic antennas derive their well-known gain by "throwing away" some of
the design's gain.  Ditto for the infamous "inverted vee". Use is made of
the lobes from the four wires while disregarding others.

73 !

Ken Kopp - K0PP
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Mike Markowski]

Can you expand on this, Ken, or if easier, a reference?  I'm curious 
what tradeoffs are made.  I used a rhombic at Ft. Monmouth, NJ before 
the Army base was closed in 2011, and used to boom into Europe and 
Russia.  It was amazing.  I also got copies of WWII manuals on rhombic 
construction while there.  You know, just in case I became wealthy with 
tens of acres of land.  :-)


73,
Mike ab3ap

On 9/13/19 5:57 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

Rhombic antennas derive their well-known gain by "throwing away" some of
the design's gain.  Ditto for the infamous "inverted vee". Use is made of
the lobes from the four wires while disregarding others.

73 !

Ken Kopp - K0PP

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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Bill Johnson]

And I have ordered one with all the goodies, so, Wayne,  get on it!!  :-)  Keep 
those elves a truckin'!

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 2:46 PM
To: rv6amark 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector ; Grant Youngman 
; Szabó István 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

> What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   

Rhombic or Sterba curtain. Unless you're doing pedestrian mobile, in which 
case...AX1 :)


> September has been fairly quiet

Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that some 
aren't posting as often as usual.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Bill Johnson]

Oh, maybe I should offer my K3S with ALL the options and the P3 for advance 
ordering as well?  

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 5:33 PM
To: Wayne Burdick ; rv6amark 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

And I have ordered one with all the goodies, so, Wayne,  get on it!!  :-)  Keep 
those elves a truckin'!

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 2:46 PM
To: rv6amark 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector ; Grant Youngman 
; Szabó István 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

> What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   

Rhombic or Sterba curtain. Unless you're doing pedestrian mobile, in which 
case...AX1 :)


> September has been fairly quiet

Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that some 
aren't posting as often as usual.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[hawley, charles j jr]

The K3S is an incredibly compact and extremely capable rig. It has a handle on 
the side too. I don't quite see the rush to sell it if you buy a K4. 

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Bill Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Oh, maybe I should offer my K3S with ALL the options and the P3 for advance 
> ordering as well?  
> 
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> 
> https://wrj-tech.com/
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 5:33 PM
> To: Wayne Burdick ; rv6amark 
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity
> 
> And I have ordered one with all the goodies, so, Wayne,  get on it!!  :-)  
> Keep those elves a truckin'!
> 
> 72 & 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 
> 
> https://wrj-tech.com/
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 2:46 PM
> To: rv6amark 
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector ; Grant Youngman 
> ; Szabó István 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity
> 
>> What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   
> 
> Rhombic or Sterba curtain. Unless you're doing pedestrian mobile, in which 
> case...AX1 :)
> 
> 
>> September has been fairly quiet
> 
> Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that 
> some aren't posting as often as usual.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[donovanf]

Hi Mike, 


Rhombic antennas -- with few exceptions -- were not usually designed 
for high gain. They were usually designed as a compromise between 
gain and typically one octave of bandwidth (e.g. 14-28 MHz). 


To compound the design compromises, the r hombic termination 
resistor throws away nearly 3 dB of whatever gain it might achieve. 
Because of this, high gain transmitting rhombics have very narrow 
beamwidth, typically 20-30 degrees. 


A high gain rhombic designed for 14-28 MHz -- competitive with a pair 
of stacked large triband Yagis -- might be 300 feet wide, 700 feet long 
and supported by four 100 foot towers. In order to achieve this gain, 
the rhombic beamwidth would be only about 25 degrees, requiring at 
least a dozen huge reversable rhombics to cover most of the compass. 


I visited many rhombic antenna farms many years ago (as far as I know 
they've now all been dismantled). They were typically at least one square 
mile sites with fifty to a hundred towers with heights of 50 to more than 
200 feet. Dismantled VOA Site C in Greenville, NC is a good example, 
a 1.5 square mile site with pairs of massive rhombics -- the biggest I've 
ever seen -- for diversity reception. 


To the extent these facilities are still operating (the vast majority are not), 
the rhombics were replaced by rotatable log periodic antennas, perhaps 
with higher power transmitters to make up for the slightly reduced gain. 
That approach replaces a one square miles ( in some cases much larger) 
with a few acres or perhaps 100 acres for very large site. 


This is a good reference: 


www.w8ji.com/rhombic_antennas.htm 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Markowski"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:24:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain" 

Can you expand on this, Ken, or if easier, a reference? I'm curious 
what tradeoffs are made. I used a rhombic at Ft. Monmouth, NJ before 
the Army base was closed in 2011, and used to boom into Europe and 
Russia. It was amazing. I also got copies of WWII manuals on rhombic 
construction while there. You know, just in case I became wealthy with 
tens of acres of land. :-) 

73, 
Mike ab3ap 

On 9/13/19 5:57 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote: 
> Rhombic antennas derive their well-known gain by "throwing away" some of 
> the design's gain. Ditto for the infamous "inverted vee". Use is made of 
> the lobes from the four wires while disregarding others. 
> 
> 73 ! 
> 
> Ken Kopp - K0PP 
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[EricJ]

Maybe the termination was changed in later years. I was permanently 
assigned to K2USA from '63-'65 (not bad duty for a ham). We ran 
thousands of phone patches to/from SE Asia on that rhombic and the 20m 
monobander @ 90 feet. I used to break into QSOs between two local VKs 
chatting via ground wave with that antenna. I was the only signal they 
could hear.


You probably knew Mike Reason. When I was there, he was a local kid who 
used to hang out at the MARS station. Great guy, now SK.


Eric KE6US

ex-K1DCK, WA6YCF, WB2PVW

On 9/13/2019 3:24 PM, Mike Markowski wrote:
Can you expand on this, Ken, or if easier, a reference?  I'm curious 
what tradeoffs are made.  I used a rhombic at Ft. Monmouth, NJ before 
the Army base was closed in 2011, and used to boom into Europe and 
Russia.  It was amazing.  I also got copies of WWII manuals on rhombic 
construction while there.  You know, just in case I became wealthy 
with tens of acres of land.  :-)


73,
Mike ab3ap

On 9/13/19 5:57 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

Rhombic antennas derive their well-known gain by "throwing away" some of
the design's gain.  Ditto for the infamous "inverted vee". Use is 
made of

the lobes from the four wires while disregarding others.

73 !

Ken Kopp - K0PP

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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Fred Jensen]

Mike:  Rhombics can be operated either terminated or unterminated.  If 
unterminated, they are bi-directional with half the power in each lobe.  
If terminated, the resistor absorbs half the power in the reverse lobe.  
Either way, half your power goes the "wrong" way, either behind your 
desired direction or heats a big resistor.  They have a very low 
radiation angle and a fairly narrow beamwidth which is why they're flame 
throwers and very common in military and commercial stations, 
particularly in the days of point-to-point radio circuits.  V-beams, 
sometimes called Half-Rhombics are sort of likewise only broader azimuth 
patterns more suitable for maritime ship-shore telegraphy circuits.  For 
ham applications, Google W6AM


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/13/2019 3:24 PM, Mike Markowski wrote:
Can you expand on this, Ken, or if easier, a reference?  I'm curious 
what tradeoffs are made.  I used a rhombic at Ft. Monmouth, NJ before 
the Army base was closed in 2011, and used to boom into Europe and 
Russia.  It was amazing.  I also got copies of WWII manuals on rhombic 
construction while there.  You know, just in case I became wealthy 
with tens of acres of land.  :-)


73,
Mike ab3ap


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Bill Johnson]

Oh, but I have 2 KX3's and one PX3, a KXPA100.  Oh, did I mention a KX2 and all 
it's stuff.  I am an Elecraft junkie... because I love their stuff, and, all of 
it is so well engineered. Their customer service for us with logical issues is 
just so superior.  

The most important factor on this thread... we are improving ACTIVITY.  

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: hawley, charles j jr  
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 6:04 PM
To: Bill Johnson 
Cc: Wayne Burdick ; rv6amark ; Elecraft 
Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

The K3S is an incredibly compact and extremely capable rig. It has a handle on 
the side too. I don't quite see the rush to sell it if you buy a K4. 

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Bill Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Oh, maybe I should offer my K3S with ALL the options and the P3 for advance 
> ordering as well?  
> 
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> 
> https://wrj-tech.com/
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>  On Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 5:33 PM
> To: Wayne Burdick ; rv6amark 
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity
> 
> And I have ordered one with all the goodies, so, Wayne,  get on it!!  :-)  
> Keep those elves a truckin'!
> 
> 72 & 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 
> 
> https://wrj-tech.com/
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>  On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 2:46 PM
> To: rv6amark 
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector ; Grant Youngman 
> ; Szabó István 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity
> 
>> What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???   
> 
> Rhombic or Sterba curtain. Unless you're doing pedestrian mobile, in 
> which case...AX1 :)
> 
> 
>> September has been fairly quiet
> 
> Speaking strictly for all of us, the Elecraft Elves are so busy K4ing that 
> some aren't posting as often as usual.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

 I posted the question, "What is the BEST antenna to use with my K???" as a 
"tongue-in-cheek" question to see if it would generate some activity, and it 
was wildly successful.  I posted it at about 12:30pm PDT and it is now almost 
5pm PDT.  There are over a dozen responses, and at least two threads spawned.  
That question ALWAYS generates LOTS of activity.  I guess it is because there 
is no single answer to it.     

  
--Mark, KE6BB

  
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[David Haines]

Well, I'm not wealthy.  But we do have 270 acres of forest-land covered 
with nothing but trees.  So a rhombic or two sounds really good, which 
never occurred to me before.  Thanks, Don!


Across the field from my shack, maybe 600',  is a row of 90' pine 
trees.  More trees on either edge of the field for the vertices. And the 
feed could be right at the shack.  How important is symmetry?


I've been deciding how much Wireman #534 to buy, so it sounds like I 
should go for at least 1000'!   Still will need a lot of support line, 
though.


david, in the forests of Maine

KC1DNY

On 9/13/2019 6:24 PM, Mike Markowski wrote:
Can you expand on this, Ken, or if easier, a reference?  I'm curious 
what tradeoffs are made.  I used a rhombic at Ft. Monmouth, NJ before 
the Army base was closed in 2011, and used to boom into Europe and 
Russia.  It was amazing.  I also got copies of WWII manuals on rhombic 
construction while there.  You know, just in case I became wealthy 
with tens of acres of land.  :-)


73,
Mike ab3ap

On 9/13/19 5:57 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

Rhombic antennas derive their well-known gain by "throwing away" some of
the design's gain.  Ditto for the infamous "inverted vee". Use is 
made of

the lobes from the four wires while disregarding others.

73 !

Ken Kopp - K0PP

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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Fred Jensen]

Mike:  You will need more than "a few tens of acres" for rhombics, their 
beamwidth is so narrow that you will need an array of them.  The 
transmit site for KOK ["Los Angeles Radio" now SK and demolished] was 
probably at least a square mile, likely more.  Rhombics for the 
point-2-point services, horizontal V-beams for the maritime service.


VOA was partial to Sterba and other "curtain" designs.  Similar to 
rhombics in the gain and main lobe elevation departments, they exhibit 
wider beam widths which was good for broadcast to specific areas instead 
of specific cities.  VOA had a large station in Dixon CA with multiple 
curtains which is gone now.  The one in Delano CA was still there 
[inactive] last time we drove down CA99 to Bakersfield 5 or so years 
ago.  They do require two or more very tall towers however.


There's a trade-off equation.  Rhombics are quite simple and do not 
require massive towers.  They DO require a lot of land which must be 
factored into the total antenna cost.  That land has to be kept clear of 
major vegetation too.  Curtains take less land but are substantially 
more complex and more difficult to erect, inspect, and maintain.  It 
always comes down to money. [:-))


Don Wallace, W6AM, was a legend on the west coast in the 40's/50's.  His 
QTH was in the Palos Verde Hills [west of downtown Los Angeles] 
overlooking the Pacific with multiple rhombics.  At that time, transmit 
power was measured by plate input power and our limit was 1 KW.  W6AM 
had separate Collins KW-1 transmitters permanently tuned for each band, 
all the feedlines were open wire, and he basically talked to anyone he 
wanted to.  I got a chance to visit the station as a teenager with a 
group ... had to ask my Elmer about the looong wires about 8 ft off the 
ground ... beverage RX antennas under and around all the rhombics.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/13/2019 3:24 PM, Mike Markowski wrote:
Can you expand on this, Ken, or if easier, a reference?  I'm curious 
what tradeoffs are made.  I used a rhombic at Ft. Monmouth, NJ before 
the Army base was closed in 2011, and used to boom into Europe and 
Russia.  It was amazing.  I also got copies of WWII manuals on rhombic 
construction while there.  You know, just in case I became wealthy 
with tens of acres of land.  :-)


73,
Mike ab3ap

On 9/13/19 5:57 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

Rhombic antennas derive their well-known gain by "throwing away" some of
the design's gain.  Ditto for the infamous "inverted vee". Use is 
made of

the lobes from the four wires while disregarding others.

73 !

Ken Kopp - K0PP

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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Jim Campbell]

In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany 
that was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a 
former WWII German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of 
rhombics. I never bothered to count how many there were but I estimate 
that there were more than a dozen and they were in the order of 90' 
above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active.


I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a 
rhombic and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals 
I'm hearing at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88' 
doublet. The old days weren't the good old days.


73,

Jim - W4BQP



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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Bryan,


> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Bryan Brauer  wrote:
> 
> I received my new AXE1 yesterday, and today deployed the antenna with the
> AX1, connected directly to my KX2 a la HT.  I stretched out the
> counterpoise wire and tied the end to the branch of a bush, suspending it
> about 4 feet above ground.  The antenna is somewhat noisier than my NVIS
> dipole, but sitting on my deck at my Sea Ranch QTH I was able to check into
> the Jefferson Noon SSB Net 7204KHz  with 10 watts, getting a good signal
> report.  Much better performance than I expected!


Glad to hear you received the AXE1 and gave it a shake-down. Operation with any 
very short antenna is a challenge, of course, but sometimes it's the quickest 
way to get on the air.

Anyone else try their AXE1 extender yet?

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Alan]

Many years ago W1AW used to have a big (6 wavelengths per leg as I 
recall) rhombic for 20 meters pointed west.  It was mainly used for the 
code practice and bulletin transmissions.  When the new 90-foot tower 
with stacked monoband Yagis was installed we ran some A/B antenna tests 
on the air and asked people to send in signal reports.


We found that the rhombic was equal or better than the stacked 
monobanders right on the boresight of the antenna but it had a narrower 
radiation pattern.  The Yagis covered the west coast better overall.


On the other hand, the rhombic was not as high (mounted on telephone 
poles) and it could be used on other bands, although with lower gain.


By the way, the W1AW rhombic was unterminated as I recall.  There really 
is no need to terminate a rhombic unless you are concerned about 
interference (on receive or transmit) in the rear direction.


Alan N1AL


On 9/13/19 4:21 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Mike: Rhombics can be operated either terminated or unterminated.  If 
unterminated, they are bi-directional with half the power in each 
lobe.  If terminated, the resistor absorbs half the power in the 
reverse lobe.  Either way, half your power goes the "wrong" way, 
either behind your desired direction or heats a big resistor. They 
have a very low radiation angle and a fairly narrow beamwidth which is 
why they're flame throwers and very common in military and commercial 
stations, particularly in the days of point-to-point radio circuits.  
V-beams, sometimes called Half-Rhombics are sort of likewise only 
broader azimuth patterns more suitable for maritime ship-shore 
telegraphy circuits.  For ham applications, Google W6AM


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Jim Campbell]

We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If 
you want to see a real monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9 
Also known as a "Wullenweber" or AN/FLR-9.


Jim -  W4BQP
On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an R-390,
but I don't think we had Rhombics.  This was in the mid-60's

Lots of us in ham radio.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Jim Campbell
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany that
was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a former WWII
German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of rhombics. I never
bothered to count how many there were but I estimate that there were more
than a dozen and they were in the order of 90'
above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active.

I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a rhombic
and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals I'm hearing
at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88'
doublet. The old days weren't the good old days.

73,

Jim - W4BQP



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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Jim Brown]

On 9/13/2019 4:18 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

To compound the design compromises, the r hombic termination
resistor throws away nearly 3 dB of whatever gain it might achieve.


When our senior EE class toured Crosley's Mason, OH VOA site in 1964, 
the engineers were quite proud of their modification to the design that 
fed the termination power back into the feedpoint. All that remains of 
that spectacular station is the transmitter building. When we toured it, 
there were >25 rhombics and two Sterba Curtains. 10-15 years ago, my son 
worked as the manager for a restaurant/bar on the land where the antenna 
farm used to be.  Several years ago, I drove by the VOA station at 
Delano, CA, about 45 miles S of Visalia. At least some of the antenna 
farm was still there, but inquiry told me that the transmitters were 
"somewhere in South America." At the time, I had hopes of arranging a 
tour for Visalia DX Convention attendees.


There are still some shore stations along the Pacific coast with 
rhombics. The KPH TX and RX stations are 30-40 miles apart. There's 
another RX station along Rte 1 S of Half Moon Bay, with an associated TX 
station around Palo Alto.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1

[rich hurd WC3T]

I got my shipping notification today.  Prepping for my stint as a ham
volunteer next weekend in the Bike MS “City to the Shore” ride, so it might
be a little while before I get on the air with it. I’m looking forward to
it.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 20:27 Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Hi Bryan,
>
>
> > On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Bryan Brauer 
> wrote:
> >
> > I received my new AXE1 yesterday, and today deployed the antenna with the
> > AX1, connected directly to my KX2 a la HT.  I stretched out the
> > counterpoise wire and tied the end to the branch of a bush, suspending it
> > about 4 feet above ground.  The antenna is somewhat noisier than my NVIS
> > dipole, but sitting on my deck at my Sea Ranch QTH I was able to check
> into
> > the Jefferson Noon SSB Net 7204KHz  with 10 watts, getting a good signal
> > report.  Much better performance than I expected!
>
>
> Glad to hear you received the AXE1 and gave it a shake-down. Operation
> with any very short antenna is a challenge, of course, but sometimes it's
> the quickest way to get on the air.
>
> Anyone else try their AXE1 extender yet?
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Richard S. Leary]

Also had an array of rhombics at Bingen, plenty of SP-600's. Used primarily for 
reception. Our GRC-26 used a dipole for xmt/rcv DF work. That was 55 to 58. I'd 
have loved to have my K3 and 3 el steppIR back then. They didn't get the FLR-9 
at Chicksands until after I left in Jun 62. Got my ham license in Nov 61 while 
in G land but didn't operate until I got back stateside. Yeah, good ole days.

73, 
Rick W7LKG (ex 293x1)

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim Campbell
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:46
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If you 
want to see a real monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9
Also known as a "Wullenweber" or AN/FLR-9.

Jim -  W4BQP
On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
> Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an 
> R-390, but I don't think we had Rhombics.  This was in the mid-60's
>
> Lots of us in ham radio.
>
> 73 de Dick, K6KR
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>  On Behalf Of Jim Campbell
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"
>
> In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern 
> Germany that was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We 
> were at a former WWII German airfield and had an antenna farm 
> comprised of rhombics. I never bothered to count how many there were 
> but I estimate that there were more than a dozen and they were in the order 
> of 90'
> above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active.
>
> I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a 
> rhombic and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the 
> signals I'm hearing at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 
> 88'
> doublet. The old days weren't the good old days.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim - W4BQP
>
>
>
> __
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Michael P. Rioux]

I still get a kick out of thinking that I worked INSIDE of the antenna! (Rota’s 
FLR-9)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Mike, W1USN



> On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:45 PM, Jim Campbell  wrote:
> 
> We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If you 
> want to see a real monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9 
>  Also known as a "Wullenweber" or 
> AN/FLR-9.
> 
> Jim -  W4BQP
> On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
>> Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an R-390,
>> but I don't think we had Rhombics.  This was in the mid-60's
>> 
>> Lots of us in ham radio.
>> 
>> 73 de Dick, K6KR
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>>  > > On
>> Behalf Of Jim Campbell
>> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"
>> 
>> In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany that
>> was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a former WWII
>> German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of rhombics. I never
>> bothered to count how many there were but I estimate that there were more
>> than a dozen and they were in the order of 90'
>> above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active.
>> 
>> I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a rhombic
>> and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals I'm hearing
>> at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88'
>> doublet. The old days weren't the good old days.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Jim - W4BQP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
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>> delivered to d...@elecraft.com 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[hawley, charles j jr]

I was in the radio direction finding group at the U of IL in the early 60's 
which had a Wullenweber site just west of Champaign-Urbana IL 120 antennas in a 
circle outside a screen supported by telephone poles. The locals had colorful 
ideas of what it was all about. You could listen to WWVH, Hawaii and WWV in MD 
separately on the same frequency by rotating receive about 180 degrees. Very 
impressive.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Jim Campbell  wrote:
> 
> We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If you 
> want to see a real monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9 Also known 
> as a "Wullenweber" or AN/FLR-9.
> 
> Jim -  W4BQP
>> On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
>> Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an R-390,
>> but I don't think we had Rhombics.  This was in the mid-60's
>> 
>> Lots of us in ham radio.
>> 
>> 73 de Dick, K6KR
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
>> Behalf Of Jim Campbell
>> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"
>> 
>> In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany that
>> was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a former WWII
>> German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of rhombics. I never
>> bothered to count how many there were but I estimate that there were more
>> than a dozen and they were in the order of 90'
>> above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active.
>> 
>> I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a rhombic
>> and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals I'm hearing
>> at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88'
>> doublet. The old days weren't the good old days.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Jim - W4BQP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Fred Jensen]

Many of the VOA transmitters were 250 KW and ended up in religious SW 
broadcast stations.


There was a small group of hams who either tried, or succeeded, in 
getting permission to put one of the remaining Delano Sterba's on 160 
[and maybe 80].  I'm not sure if they were successful, I do know that 
the antenna farm you can see from the highway is significantly smaller 
than I remember from the late 50's.


I think the Half Moon Bay stn was KFS.  It's brother site was in the mud 
flats off of the Palo Alto shoreline in the Bay, all gone now.  At least 
one of the KFS transmitters is now operating at KPH.


Feed the termination power back into the antenna?  Conservation of 
energy? [:-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/13/2019 5:47 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 9/13/2019 4:18 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

To compound the design compromises, the r hombic termination
resistor throws away nearly 3 dB of whatever gain it might achieve.


When our senior EE class toured Crosley's Mason, OH VOA site in 1964, 
the engineers were quite proud of their modification to the design 
that fed the termination power back into the feedpoint. All that 
remains of that spectacular station is the transmitter building. When 
we toured it, there were >25 rhombics and two Sterba Curtains. 10-15 
years ago, my son worked as the manager for a restaurant/bar on the 
land where the antenna farm used to be. Several years ago, I drove by 
the VOA station at Delano, CA, about 45 miles S of Visalia. At least 
some of the antenna farm was still there, but inquiry told me that the 
transmitters were "somewhere in South America." At the time, I had 
hopes of arranging a tour for Visalia DX Convention attendees.


There are still some shore stations along the Pacific coast with 
rhombics. The KPH TX and RX stations are 30-40 miles apart. There's 
another RX station along Rte 1 S of Half Moon Bay, with an associated 
TX station around Palo Alto.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Fred Jensen]

Symmetry?  The whole show with rhombics is beamwidth and elevation 
angle, not really gain, which has been pointed out in much of the 
literature.  A "perfect" rhombic will have an extremely narrow beamwidth 
in the 10 to 15 deg range at HF [and if large enough, at MF as well].  
Asymmetry will distort that characteristic, and raise the amplitude of 
side lobes.  Effective rhombics for ham usage will require an "array' of 
them with different headings.  Lots of land, lots of property taxes. 
Stacked, rotatable yagi's might be a better choice if your bank account 
is sufficient.  Trees growing inside a rhombic will slowly degrade its 
performance, yet another cost.  Of course, you might be able to sell the 
lumber. [:-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/13/2019 5:01 PM, David Haines wrote:
Well, I'm not wealthy.  But we do have 270 acres of forest-land 
covered with nothing but trees.  So a rhombic or two sounds really 
good, which never occurred to me before.  Thanks, Don!


Across the field from my shack, maybe 600',  is a row of 90' pine 
trees.  More trees on either edge of the field for the vertices. And 
the feed could be right at the shack.  How important is symmetry?


I've been deciding how much Wireman #534 to buy, so it sounds like I 
should go for at least 1000'!   Still will need a lot of support line, 
though.


david, in the forests of Maine

KC1DNY



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[Elecraft] Low activity

[Dauer, Edward]

There is one additional drawback.  

Last weekend, after having been off the air for just over three months, I went 
to the shack to operate in the Nebraska QSO Party -- needing only NE on 10 to 
finish the CW 5BWAS.  Dead quiet on 10 meters.  After an hour of CQ NEQP every 
20 seconds, a familiar old-tyme burning smell filled the room.  By sniffing 
everything I found the culprit.  Somehow in my absence (or in the absence of my 
working memory) the KPA had been switched to ANT2, which is my dummy load.  
It's rated at 1500 watts but it has a time limit.  I guess I exceeded it.

But no matter.  I opened a window, aired out the room, took the fried dummy 
load out to the patio, switched the amp to ANT1 (a real antenna), and the sound 
of the band didn't change.  At all.  Nada.  All day.  What fun.

Ted, KN1CBR

--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 16:14:15 -0500
From: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Low activity
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

A 50 ohm dummy load.?? There's never any noise, never any QRM, the 
frequency is always clear, and always a 1:1 SWR.?? Of course getting a 
DXCC is much more of a challenge.

73

Bob, K4TAX




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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[W2xj]

A small correction. Delano, Dixon and further east Bethany were not VOA sites. 
They were originally private broadcaster’s sites. I can’t remember which was 
what but Bethany and Delano were CBS and NBC. Bethany was Crosley. Eventually 
VOA took these sites over  as commercial broadcasters found little value in 
shortwave. Greenville was the only true VOA site on US soil. 

The engineers who kept these sites going were heros as many of those 
transmitters became antiques and in some cases had to fabricate parts. That is 
the unfortunate legacy of US shortwave broadcast.



b

Sent from my iPad

>> On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> On 9/13/2019 4:18 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
>> To compound the design compromises, the r hombic termination
>> resistor throws away nearly 3 dB of whatever gain it might achieve.
> 
> When our senior EE class toured Crosley's Mason, OH VOA site in 1964, the 
> engineers were quite proud of their modification to the design that fed the 
> termination power back into the feedpoint. All that remains of that 
> spectacular station is the transmitter building. When we toured it, there 
> were >25 rhombics and two Sterba Curtains. 10-15 years ago, my son worked as 
> the manager for a restaurant/bar on the land where the antenna farm used to 
> be.  Several years ago, I drove by the VOA station at Delano, CA, about 45 
> miles S of Visalia. At least some of the antenna farm was still there, but 
> inquiry told me that the transmitters were "somewhere in South America." At 
> the time, I had hopes of arranging a tour for Visalia DX Convention attendees.
> 
> There are still some shore stations along the Pacific coast with rhombics. 
> The KPH TX and RX stations are 30-40 miles apart. There's another RX station 
> along Rte 1 S of Half Moon Bay, with an associated TX station around Palo 
> Alto.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[donovanf]

Hi Chuck, 


Its nearly impossible to hide those old Wullenweber arrays, even if they've 
been dismantled for nearly fifty years 


www.google.com/maps/search/bondville+rd,+scott,+il/@40.0492598,-88.3816964,440m/data=!3m1!1e3
 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "charles j jr hawley"  
To: "Jim Campbell"  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2019 1:42:53 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain" 

I was in the radio direction finding group at the U of IL in the early 60's 
which had a Wullenweber site just west of Champaign-Urbana IL 120 antennas in a 
circle outside a screen supported by telephone poles. The locals had colorful 
ideas of what it was all about. You could listen to WWVH, Hawaii and WWV in MD 
separately on the same frequency by rotating receive about 180 degrees. Very 
impressive. 

Jack BMW Motorcycles 
Chuck KE9UW 
c-haw...@illinois.edu 

Sent from my iPad 

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Jim Campbell  wrote: 
> 
> We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If you 
> want to see a real monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9 Also known 
> as a "Wullenweber" or AN/FLR-9. 
> 
> Jim - W4BQP 
>> On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote: 
>> Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an R-390, 
>> but I don't think we had Rhombics. This was in the mid-60's 
>> 
>> Lots of us in ham radio. 
>> 
>> 73 de Dick, K6KR 
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
>> Behalf Of Jim Campbell 
>> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21 
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain" 
>> 
>> In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany that 
>> was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a former WWII 
>> German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of rhombics. I never 
>> bothered to count how many there were but I estimate that there were more 
>> than a dozen and they were in the order of 90' 
>> above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active. 
>> 
>> I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a rhombic 
>> and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals I'm hearing 
>> at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88' 
>> doublet. The old days weren't the good old days. 
>> 
>> 73, 
>> 
>> Jim - W4BQP 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[donovanf]

Hi mike, 


Wasn't Rota an FRD-10, not an FLR-9? 


www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2%B039'24.0%22N+6%C2%B021'54.0%22W/@36.6567863,-6.3663994,682m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael P. Rioux"  
To: "Jim Campbell"  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2019 1:26:20 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain" 

I still get a kick out of thinking that I worked INSIDE of the antenna! (Rota’s 
FLR-9) 

Si vis pacem, para bellum 

Mike, W1USN 



> On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:45 PM, Jim Campbell  wrote: 
> 
> We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If you 
> want to see a real monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9 
>  Also known as a "Wullenweber" or 
> AN/FLR-9. 
> 
> Jim - W4BQP 
> On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote: 
>> Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an R-390, 
>> but I don't think we had Rhombics. This was in the mid-60's 
>> 
>> Lots of us in ham radio. 
>> 
>> 73 de Dick, K6KR 
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>>  > > On 
>> Behalf Of Jim Campbell 
>> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21 
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net  
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain" 
>> 
>> In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany that 
>> was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a former WWII 
>> German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of rhombics. I never 
>> bothered to count how many there were but I estimate that there were more 
>> than a dozen and they were in the order of 90' 
>> above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active. 
>> 
>> I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a rhombic 
>> and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals I'm hearing 
>> at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88' 
>> doublet. The old days weren't the good old days. 
>> 
>> 73, 
>> 
>> Jim - W4BQP 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Re: AXE1

[HB via Elecraft]

It works better than expected!  I setup the KX3 on the front deck and worked 
some stations with good signal reports earlier this week (SSB).  I was running 
all 15 watts!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com [KX3]
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 9:19 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Cc: k...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [KX3] Re: AXE1

  
Hi Bryan,

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Bryan Brauer  wrote:
> 
> I received my new AXE1 yesterday, and today deployed the antenna with the
> AX1, connected directly to my KX2 a la HT. I stretched out the
> counterpoise wire and tied the end to the branch of a bush, suspending it
> about 4 feet above ground. The antenna is somewhat noisier than my NVIS
> dipole, but sitting on my deck at my Sea Ranch QTH I was able to check into
> the Jefferson Noon SSB Net 7204KHz with 10 watts, getting a good signal
> report. Much better performance than I expected!

Glad to hear you received the AXE1 and gave it a shake-down. Operation with any 
very short antenna is a challenge, of course, but sometimes it's the quickest 
way to get on the air.

Anyone else try their AXE1 extender yet?

73,
Wayne
N6KR
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Arliss]

Or even longer:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UkbdbLQ-ofI/V4CWpqwJ9SI/E-Q/YtV82_PGUqg3j77n0OyOxp0A1LaL1-LowCLcB/s1600/crop-stonehenge-stones-set3.jpg


73, Arliss  W7XU


On 9/13/2019 10:15 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Chuck,


Its nearly impossible to hide those old Wullenweber arrays, even if they've
been dismantled for nearly fifty years


www.google.com/maps/search/bondville+rd,+scott,+il/@40.0492598,-88.3816964,440m/data=!3m1!1e3


73
Frank
W3LPL


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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Phil Kane]

On 9/13/2019 4:18 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

> I visited many rhombic antenna farms many years ago (as far as I know 
> they've now all been dismantled).

The Maritime Radio Historical Station KPH (ex-RCA) site in Bolinas, CA
may still have one  up, but I'm not certain that it is still in service
- we've lost a number of antennas to weather damage and ageing poles and
wires.  I'm still waiting for our 8 MHz RTTY transmitting  antenna to go
back up.  Unabashed commercial -  www.radiomarine.com

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Phil Kane]

On 9/13/2019 5:45 PM, Jim Campbell wrote:
> We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them.

They (we called them the "Type W") were the mainstay of the FCC's HFDF
system from the 1970s to several years after I retired in the mid-1990s.
 Their function was directivity, not gain.  We took the military's
design and one of our engineers improved on it, and we usually
outperformed theirs on tests.   AFAIK all of the FCC's and the
military's are now gone, replaced by more sophisticated DF antennas.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Phil Kane]

On 9/13/2019 5:47 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> There's another RX station along Rte 1 S of Half Moon Bay, with an
> associated TX station around Palo Alto.

KFS -- all gone now, not even buildings are left.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Phil Kane]

On 9/13/2019 6:56 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> There was a small group of hams who either tried, or succeeded, in
> getting permission to put one of the remaining Delano Sterba's on 160
> [and maybe 80].  I'm not sure if they were successful,

As I remember it, it was the Sacramento Ham Club that got permission to
use the antenna at VOA Dixon for a Field Day shortly after the VOA
decommissioned the site.  After they hooked everything up, they could
not hear anything with it because of the high gain antenna picking up
the signals from NPG - the Navy's transmitting site - two miles down the
street.  Someone forgot that  there's a reason that receiving sites are
located far, far away from such high-power transmitting sites.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Phil Kane]

On 9/13/2019 6:56 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> I think the Half Moon Bay stn was KFS.  It's brother site was in the mud
> flats off of the Palo Alto shoreline in the Bay, all gone now.  At least
> one of the KFS transmitters is now operating at KPH.

Ah yes, the PW-15, built for Press Wireless in the 1940s for continuous
RTTY press transmissions at 15 KW.  It's now running at 5 KW in CW mode
and should last as long as we can get tubes for it.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Phil Kane]

On 9/13/2019 8:15 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

> Its nearly impossible to hide those old Wullenweber arrays, even if they've 
> been dismantled for nearly fifty years 

The FCC's have all been dismantled.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Brian Hunt]

Not true. The KFS receive site building and some antennas are still there and 
being used for "something".  In fact there is a web SDR hooked to the big log 
periodic. 

73,
Brian, K0DTJ
HMB, CA

> 
> KFS -- all gone now, not even buildings are left.


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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Bob W7AVK]

Do a google on W6AM.  Don was a ham's ham with many Rhombic antennas.  
Years ago he and W1FH for several years would exchange being on the top 
of the DXCC list.


Interesting reading.

73  Bob  W7AVK


On 9/13/2019 8:22 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi mike,


Wasn't Rota an FRD-10, not an FLR-9?


www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2%B039'24.0%22N+6%C2%B021'54.0%22W/@36.6567863,-6.3663994,682m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Michael P. Rioux" 
To: "Jim Campbell" 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2019 1:26:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

I still get a kick out of thinking that I worked INSIDE of the antenna! (Rota’s 
FLR-9)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Mike, W1USN




On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:45 PM, Jim Campbell  wrote:

We also had Elephant Cages later on. Funny no one has mentioned them. If you want to see a real 
monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9  
Also known as a "Wullenweber" or AN/FLR-9.

Jim - W4BQP
On 9/13/2019 8:28 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Small world. I was in a similar line of work, for the Navy, using an R-390,
but I don't think we had Rhombics. This was in the mid-60's

Lots of us in ham radio.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  
mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>> On
Behalf Of Jim Campbell
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 17:21
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

In the late '50s I was stationed at a field station in Northern Germany that
was monitoring transmissions from the 'other side'. We were at a former WWII
German airfield and had an antenna farm comprised of rhombics. I never
bothered to count how many there were but I estimate that there were more
than a dozen and they were in the order of 90'
above ground. I was a ham at the time (DL4AQ) but not active.

I believe that my K2 and a low 88' doublet hears better than would a rhombic
and a SP-600 from those days. I almost can't believe the signals I'm hearing
at the bottom of the sunspot cycle with said K2 and low 88'
doublet. The old days weren't the good old days.

73,

Jim - W4BQP

.

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Re: [Elecraft] Rhombic antenna "gain"

[Edward R Cole]

I guess they were used a many military sites.  In 1984 I helped 
install a 250w commercial VHF link from top of Mt. Balleyhoo (above 
Dutch Harbor in the Aleutians) and there was the remains of many 90 
foot wooden poles arrayed up in a valley on the side of the mountain 
that was used by the military in WWII.  I would guess they held 
rhombic arrays as the poles were in lines with total length probably 1000-foot.


Dutch Harbor was attacked by Japan in WWII but did not fall to the 
Japanese like Attu and Kiska Islands did.  The campaigns often 
referred to as the "Forgotten War".  Only US territory occupied by 
enemy forces since the war of 1812.


There were abandoned concrete gun emplacements on the cliffs on top 
of the mountain - interesting to explore and look out of thinking how 
it was in 1942.


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Low activity

[Szabó István]

Thank you , even my mail have not got through. Looks like there is a 
"filter" somewhere.


73, István ha4zd

On 9/13/2019 7:58 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

September has been fairly quiet.  Only around 160 posts for the (nearly) first 
half of the month.

Grant NQ5T
KX3 (8342)/KXPA100



On Sep 13, 2019, at 1:46 PM, Szabó István  wrote:

During last week I got very few e-mails. Is it low activity or e-mails lost 
somewhere?

73, István ha4zd

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--
Ha nem vagy  a megoldás része te vagy a probléma.

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