Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
Your point continues to be repeated (and it’s become a tiresome and annoying whine). However it remains that the Elecraft code is proprietary, just as most radio manufacturers code, name most any brand. Ditto car engine computer code (gas, diesel, hybrid or battery), computer program operating systems, networking products and more. It’s private and protected by laws. Try walking into Tesla and demanding copies of their designs and coding. You might just hope to land on the lawn, it depends on how well they toss you. While it’s possible to come close to duplicating the hardware (illegally), perhaps even take a good stab at the code; Elecraft gear still has their name on it, they stand behind it with both name and reputation on the line. So their code won’t be released to the public risking someone makIng poor changes, potentially causing issues, that could besmirch the name and product reputation that they’ve built up. That would be ruinous to the product, the users and financial suicide for Elecraft. Ditto Kenwood. Ditto Yaesu. Ditto Icom. And they’re not even in the same league as Elecraft. If the coder is THAT good, apply to join the team. Expand that team to anyone/everyone and you end up with radio version of Windows; bloated, slow, resource hogging that demands new hardware with each update or evolution and can’t get out of its own way to operate in mediocrity. If you want to roll your own, start at the very beginning, just as they did. No one stopped them, no one will stop you. I think they’re doing an excellent job and push their designs to the limit (K3); then take the next step with newer hardware (K4) to build on their success. You’re welcome to try and match all that; starting from scratch. Let’s not (ever) bring this up monthly anymore; the answer in the foreseeable future, is no. For excellent reasons. Most of the users buy in because of the well proven quality and won’t accept substitutes. Stop asking. 73, Rick NK7I Email spiel Czech corruptions happen > On Nov 25, 2020, at 10:10 PM, Tim Neu wrote: > > The point on Moore's law is taken. > > But the options aren't just limited to Elecraft doing more work on older > radios or no updates at all (or supporting the old radios to the detriment > of the new) > > Many software development projects now are community based and although > radio firmware may be more time-consuming and more complex than OpenWRT for > example, community based development may have more umph than Elecraft might > have as far as inclination to tweak old radios. > > Just a thought. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] XG3 battery level indicator
Slow flash of the 0 dBm LED. On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:42 PM Robert G Strickland via Elecraft < elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: > What is the indication that the XG3 battery is low? > ...robert > -- > Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY > rc...@verizon.net.usa > Syracuse, New York, USA > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to jimk...@gmail.com > -- Jim K0XU j...@rhodesend.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
The point on Moore's law is taken. But the options aren't just limited to Elecraft doing more work on older radios or no updates at all (or supporting the old radios to the detriment of the new) Many software development projects now are community based and although radio firmware may be more time-consuming and more complex than OpenWRT for example, community based development may have more umph than Elecraft might have as far as inclination to tweak old radios. Just a thought. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 1:35 AM Jim Brown wrote: > Tim, > > It's important to realize the the basic K3 was designed in 2007 with > 2007 parts. It should be obvious that technology has advanced by several > orders of magnitude since then (remember Moore's Law?. That fundamental > limitation is a major reason why features that are on lots of wish lists > aren't implemented, and it's a major reason why there's a K4. > > Elecraft is a small company, so they can't afford to build new models as > often as the bigger companies, but the K3 was a very innovative product > that upped the ante for what a great radio should be. For example, it > took ten years for Flex to incorporate the keying waveshaping that the > K3 introduced in 2008, and, as far as I know, they're the only mfr to > have done so (maybe ANAN?). All the other mfrs are using very primitive > (and very clicky) simple RC time constants dating back 70 years! > Elecraft also did some very slick stuff to make their phase noise much > lower than most radios, again, back in that 2007 design. > > And they may be the only mfr to make their radios modular, so we can buy > as much radio as we need, and so that some features can be upgraded by > buying upgraded modules. If you want a new feature or performance > improvement on a JA radio, you have to buy a new radio.It took Yaesu > three generations of their then flagship FT1000-series rigs to fix their > really awful clicks, and their current flagship, the FTDX5000 debuted > with the worst clicks of any of its competitors. They didn't provide a > firmware fix to make the clicks half as bad until I embarrassed them > with my report summarizing ARRL Lab tests; by then the radio was 4-5 > years old! > > 73, Jim K9YC > > On 11/23/2020 10:13 PM, Tim Tucker wrote: > > But > > one thing that the last few years has shown is that Elecraft does not > have > > a great track record of developing new features or technologies into > their > > existing transceiver products. They release updates and patches for > > various issues, and certainly did release new features early on for the > K3, > > but a lot of the ideas the community suggested went unanswered. I > > understand why this is, and hope that it will change with the K4, but > > ultimately the K3, KX3, and KX2 are largely the same product that they > have > > been for the last several years. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to tim@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] XG3 battery level indicator
What is the indication that the XG3 battery is low? ...robert -- Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY rc...@verizon.net.usa Syracuse, New York, USA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] ARRL Handbook 2021
No solution in EU, finally ARRL HQ helped me out. Great support. Thank you for everyone for the ideas. 73, István HA4ZD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
Or turn the RF Gain down... On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 18:45 Dave Cole wrote: > One can always use the built in attenuator... > > 73, and thanks, > Dave (NK7Z) > https://www.nk7z.net > ARRL Volunteer Examiner > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources > > On 11/25/20 4:27 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > > Doug, > > > > I lived through cycle 19 of the sunspot signals, and did not find any > > problem with receiver overloading at that time. We did not have the > > Elecraft gear at that time, but what we had was not up to the > > performance/protection that is typical for Elecraft. Receivers have > > gotten much better in dynamic range and lowered MDS in general and > > Elecraft rates near the top of the heap. > > > > The AGC in the K2 and K1 (and K3/K3S) can handle the strong signals with > > no problem. It is not much different than reports of performance during > > a contest where there are strong signals and weaker signals. > > > > If we have a strong sunspot cycle, the weak signals will get stronger > > along with the more powerful stations. > > > > 73, > > Don W3FPR > > > > On 11/25/2020 6:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: > >> If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a > >> really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in > >> 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically > >> interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic > >> problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can > >> hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: "Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't." __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
They also released a whole new radio, the ‘590SG not long after the original ‘590S. The K3 didn’t have a replacement upgrade like that, meaning the K3 to theK3s, for something like 10 years, and they even gave an upgrade path to make the K3 very close in performance to the K3s. No such for the ‘590S to ‘590SG. Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: bu...@brannan.name Mobile: (814) 431-0962 > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Neil Zampella wrote: > > Of course, as mentioned previously in this thread, large companies have > funds that they can invest in personnel to do the development, so I > would expect that Kenwood would be able to assign personnel quickly to > handle such issues. > > Neil, KN3ILZ > > On 11/25/2020 10:25 AM, Andy Durbin wrote: >> "Name any other company that gives you FREE firmware updates in real time >> (not months later like Icom or never like most others) until the issues are >> resolved to the user satisfaction; or that ADD features previously >> unavailable." >> >> Kenwood! >> >> Kenwood has released firmware updates for TS-590S defects that I reported >> and made product improvements that I suggested. My experience is that >> Kenwood has fixed problems far more quickly than Elecraft. >> >> 73, >> Andy, k3wyc >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to bu...@brannan.name __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
One can always use the built in attenuator... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 11/25/20 4:27 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Doug, I lived through cycle 19 of the sunspot signals, and did not find any problem with receiver overloading at that time. We did not have the Elecraft gear at that time, but what we had was not up to the performance/protection that is typical for Elecraft. Receivers have gotten much better in dynamic range and lowered MDS in general and Elecraft rates near the top of the heap. The AGC in the K2 and K1 (and K3/K3S) can handle the strong signals with no problem. It is not much different than reports of performance during a contest where there are strong signals and weaker signals. If we have a strong sunspot cycle, the weak signals will get stronger along with the more powerful stations. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/25/2020 6:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
I've been a ham since before the solar peak of cycle 20, more than 50 years ago. I used a K1 with its simple SA612 front end during the peak activity for cycle 23 and 24. The problem that you have conjured is non-existent for practical proposes. There is nothing but joy to be had with any QRP rig in times of good solar activity. (I also used K1SWL's DSW-20, -30, -40 and MFJ Cubs for 40, 20, and 15 meters...all rigs with very simple front ends. I experienced no problems either. FWIW, cycle 21 (peak November 1979) was my favorite. Mike / KK5F -Original Message- >From: Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft >Sent: Nov 25, 2020 5:52 PM > >If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really >high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would >the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and >K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front >end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the >selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > >Doug, W0UHU. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
Doug, I lived through cycle 19 of the sunspot signals, and did not find any problem with receiver overloading at that time. We did not have the Elecraft gear at that time, but what we had was not up to the performance/protection that is typical for Elecraft. Receivers have gotten much better in dynamic range and lowered MDS in general and Elecraft rates near the top of the heap. The AGC in the K2 and K1 (and K3/K3S) can handle the strong signals with no problem. It is not much different than reports of performance during a contest where there are strong signals and weaker signals. If we have a strong sunspot cycle, the weak signals will get stronger along with the more powerful stations. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/25/2020 6:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
I think they'll work exactly the way they do now. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 11/25/2020 3:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? Doug, W0UHU. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
> Douglas Hagerman wrote: > > If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really > high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would > the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 > and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the > front end? No. > Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, > etc., be sufficient? Yes. Our radios were all designed with that magic moment in mind :) 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Sunspots!?!?
If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? Doug, W0UHU. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
And yet the TS-590 still has unfixed design flaws (overshoot being one of the worst) without sending it to an authorized shop, taking weeks. It was MONTHS before that firmware was updated (since originally reported). I find the reaction time for updates with Elecraft to be more responsive. Plus you can talk to a tech (except for COVID delays now) the same day you initiate contact. 73, Rick NK7I On 11/25/2020 8:25 AM, Andy Durbin wrote: "Name any other company that gives you FREE firmware updates in real time (not months later like Icom or never like most others) until the issues are resolved to the user satisfaction; or that ADD features previously unavailable." Kenwood! Kenwood has released firmware updates for TS-590S defects that I reported and made product improvements that I suggested. My experience is that Kenwood has fixed problems far more quickly than Elecraft. 73, Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rick.n...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] K3 FT8 Levels Sanity Check
It has been a while since the K3 has done anything but CW. Running a temporary station at my grandmother's for the week and thought I'd run some FT8 in the background. IIRC you want 4 bars of ALC with the 5th flashing. Here are my settings: Windows Sound Device Settings (KIO3B sound card) = 50% WSJT-X Power Slider = -22.5db (50%) Elecraft K3 Line in Gain = 40 That line in gain seems a little high, but it gives me the right ALC. 39 doesn't flash the fifth bar, and 41 will keep the 5th bar mostly solid. https://youtu.be/jxTkX31nEpY Thanks & 73 de Joseph M. Durnal NE3R __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
For large companies there is still the cost factor. Could that person otherwise be doing something more profitable. Remember who really runs those companies. Sent from my iPad > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Neil Zampella wrote: > > Of course, as mentioned previously in this thread, large companies have > funds that they can invest in personnel to do the development, so I > would expect that Kenwood would be able to assign personnel quickly to > handle such issues. > > Neil, KN3ILZ > >> On 11/25/2020 10:25 AM, Andy Durbin wrote: >> "Name any other company that gives you FREE firmware updates in real time >> (not months later like Icom or never like most others) until the issues are >> resolved to the user satisfaction; or that ADD features previously >> unavailable." >> >> Kenwood! >> >> Kenwood has released firmware updates for TS-590S defects that I reported >> and made product improvements that I suggested. My experience is that >> Kenwood has fixed problems far more quickly than Elecraft. >> >> 73, >> Andy, k3wyc >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w...@w2xj.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
Of course, as mentioned previously in this thread, large companies have funds that they can invest in personnel to do the development, so I would expect that Kenwood would be able to assign personnel quickly to handle such issues. Neil, KN3ILZ On 11/25/2020 10:25 AM, Andy Durbin wrote: "Name any other company that gives you FREE firmware updates in real time (not months later like Icom or never like most others) until the issues are resolved to the user satisfaction; or that ADD features previously unavailable." Kenwood! Kenwood has released firmware updates for TS-590S defects that I reported and made product improvements that I suggested. My experience is that Kenwood has fixed problems far more quickly than Elecraft. 73, Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
It would be nice to see the two remaining “not implemented” features appear in the KX3, especially S-meter absolute mode. I’m not sure there is much demand for addressing multiple transverters. https://ftp.elecraft.com/KX3/Manuals%20Downloads/E740163E%20KX3%20Owner%27s%20Manual%20Errata%20C5-3.pdf I know of some other small open requests for the KX3, but these two are features. I don’t expect to see larger new features. For example, it would be great to see synchronous AM detection, and I have no doubt that the DSP is capable of that, but I’m not holding my breath. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Nov 25, 2020, at 2:04 AM, David Wilcox via Elecraft > wrote: > > I would venture to say that most hams (especially those recently licensed) > don’t and can’t utilize all the features of even an older K3, let alone one > with all the enhancements. The K4 is so far beyond the “average” ham in its > ability that unless you are an electronics guru with an EE you won’t need, > much less understand, all the neat things it can do. > > I am not disparaging the K3, K3S, or the K4 but whatever version you might > have or want it will do the job 95% of the time. I love my upgraded K3s but > still haven’t scratched the surface of what it will do. I could spend the > rest of my life exploring all the features of my fine radio (I have all of > Fred Cady’s books) but there are other avenues of enjoyment in ham radio that > I am pursuing. This IS a hobby and it has been my go to in times of good and > bad since 1960. Cheaper than a psychiatrist and less trouble than a > mistress. > > What I have said above may not apply to the top of the list contester as that > is a field all to itself. Those guys and gals may notice the difference in > some of the enhancements to the K line in a pileup, but that’s another rabbit > hole. > > Dave K8WPE since 1960. > > David J. Wilcox’s iPad > >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 11:03 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: >> >> While I agree with Skip here, my agreement is based on practicality, not >> physical ability. The internal K3 hardware design is quite modular, and >> replacing the DSP boards for the main and sub receivers should be straight >> forward. We have seen how the K3 can be improved by replacing boards. >> Upgrading the DSP is just another kind of new board. >> >> BUT, designing, coding, and manufacture engineering these boards is a big >> project. The boards will be quite expensive. How many people are likely to >> upgrade? And, we already have the K4, built to remain competitive in the >> market. The K4 is probably a better radio than the mythical upgraded K3. The >> upgrades to the K3 are also likely to cost more than a K4. All these >> considerations make this project a non-starter. As I said, practical >> considerations. >> >> 73 Bill AE6JV >> >>> On 11/24/20 at 6:03 PM, k6...@foothill.net (Fred Jensen) wrote: >>> >>> There's an inescapable rule in electronic product development: Once you >>> commit to a physical design in year , it will be a design that uses the >>> parts of year forever. I think about 2006 or so for the K3 [mine >>> is S/N 642 and that's about when I bought it]. Yes, the firmware can be >>> upgraded over time, but only within the constraints of 2006 components >>> [like memory and CPU]. There is also the fact that eventually, you will >>> run out of bells, whistles, and horns for updates. The K3 hit that point >>> some time back. Elecraft had fixed all or nearly all of the bugs, they'd >>> supported all of the add-on accessories, and I'm fairly sure the MCU is >>> approaching it's limits. >> >> --- >> Bill Frantz| Security is like Government | Periwinkle >> (408)348-7900 | services. The market doesn't | 150 Rivermead Rd #235 >> www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| Peterborough, NH 03458 >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to djwilco...@yahoo.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Ele
[Elecraft] Firmware development
"Name any other company that gives you FREE firmware updates in real time (not months later like Icom or never like most others) until the issues are resolved to the user satisfaction; or that ADD features previously unavailable." Kenwood! Kenwood has released firmware updates for TS-590S defects that I reported and made product improvements that I suggested. My experience is that Kenwood has fixed problems far more quickly than Elecraft. 73, Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
The point of a new radio is not the full feature list but *what it does for you* in your current and desired-future operating conditions. Very few of us take full advantage of every bell and whistle, but newer radios do tend to enhance whatever experiences most amateurs seek. This applies not only to Elecraft but also to the other manufacturers. It would be commercial suicide for a company to produce separate radios for contesting, DXing, ragchewing, moonbounce, high-QRN environments, CW, SSB, RTTY, PSK, WARC bands, point-and-shoot, search-and-pounce, SO2V, diversity reception, pileup running, pileup busting, ... you name it. So almost all radios attempt to do well at most or all applications within various price constraints. Elecraft does distinguish itself with a small number of highly modular offerings and long-term support and enhancement commitments so you don't feel the urge to upgrade every three years. I enjoyed the K3 for about 14 years (and still do!), installing most but not all available upgrades, but the K4 is a new delight. There are features of K3 that I never used (e.g. external reference oscillator) and features of K4 that I may never use (e.g. multiple rx-only antennas) but others find them essential or at least highly desirable. Some will decide to buy a given radio based solely on some feature that others find extraneous. Yes, radio architectures change over time. Many are now digital, software-defined, direct conversion designs, quite different from the analog superhets that most of us grew up with. Their controls and features have changed. If their advantages don't outweigh (for you) the effort to learn a few new tricks (or concepts or practices), don't upgrade. For me, K4 represents the new generation of transceiver and I'm delighted with what it does for me. I feel like a kid in a new sandbox. YMMV. 73, /Rick N6XI On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 2:05 AM David Wilcox via Elecraft < elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: > I would venture to say that most hams (especially those recently licensed) > don’t and can’t utilize all the features of even an older K3, let alone one > with all the enhancements. The K4 is so far beyond the “average” ham in > its ability that unless you are an electronics guru with an EE you won’t > need, much less understand, all the neat things it can do. > > I am not disparaging the K3, K3S, or the K4 but whatever version you might > have or want it will do the job 95% of the time. I love my upgraded K3s > but still haven’t scratched the surface of what it will do. I could spend > the rest of my life exploring all the features of my fine radio (I have all > of Fred Cady’s books) but there are other avenues of enjoyment in ham radio > that I am pursuing. This IS a hobby and it has been my go to in times of > good and bad since 1960. Cheaper than a psychiatrist and less trouble than > a mistress. > > What I have said above may not apply to the top of the list contester as > that is a field all to itself. Those guys and gals may notice the > difference in some of the enhancements to the K line in a pileup, but > that’s another rabbit hole. > > Dave K8WPE since 1960. > > David J. Wilcox’s iPad > > > On Nov 24, 2020, at 11:03 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: > > > > While I agree with Skip here, my agreement is based on practicality, > not physical ability. The internal K3 hardware design is quite modular, and > replacing the DSP boards for the main and sub receivers should be straight > forward. We have seen how the K3 can be improved by replacing boards. > Upgrading the DSP is just another kind of new board. > > > > BUT, designing, coding, and manufacture engineering these boards is a > big project. The boards will be quite expensive. How many people are likely > to upgrade? And, we already have the K4, built to remain competitive in the > market. The K4 is probably a better radio than the mythical upgraded K3. > The upgrades to the K3 are also likely to cost more than a K4. All these > considerations make this project a non-starter. As I said, practical > considerations. > > > > 73 Bill AE6JV > > > >> On 11/24/20 at 6:03 PM, k6...@foothill.net (Fred Jensen) wrote: > >> > >> There's an inescapable rule in electronic product development: Once you > commit to a physical design in year , it will be a design that uses the > parts of year forever. I think about 2006 or so for the K3 [mine > is S/N 642 and that's about when I bought it]. Yes, the firmware can be > upgraded over time, but only within the constraints of 2006 components > [like memory and CPU]. There is also the fact that eventually, you will > run out of bells, whistles, and horns for updates. The K3 hit that point > some time back. Elecraft had fixed all or nearly all of the bugs, they'd > supported all of the add-on accessories, and I'm fairly sure the MCU is > approaching it's limits. > > > > --- > > Bill Frantz| Securi
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
Well that IS rather condescending. I would take a different view, that MOST of the hams using Elecraft use MOST of the features on a regular basis but because the features are designed well, the user doesn't NEED to fiddle about (or understand the precise ways they work). One of the benchmarks of a good UI is that most of it is set and forget. Elecraft: PASS With the support group, the manual and the Cady book; there is ample opportunity to learn some of the nuts and bolts for those who want to know. Once set to operate in the fashion that the user prefers; the radio (with all the features) is simply used. If one doesn't understand a function or wishes to learn a better use of a feature, they can read or just ask (or watch a video if that is how they best learn). No one is born with all knowledge and I won't be disparaging to new hams; some of them blow right through all the exams in one sitting going from nothing to the highest license. They may not have experience yet, but clearly they're not idiots as you imply. (Sadly, some are, even after decades of opportunity to learn better.) It is the job of every ham, to teach them how to be better, to pass knowledge along. Some people LIKE making adjustments and learning the deep secrets of any device; others adjust according to their needs and a few just leave most of the settings as stock and yet none of them are wrong. Elecraft radios are no more complex than other radios but the simpler front panel UI (based on USING the radio, not fiddling with it) hides it a lot more than many other brands. Then add that Elecraft designers actually USE the radios in all things ham radio; they understand what is needed for the 'average' ham, the DXer and the contester no matter what mode they choose. Kencomsu may, we never know and hear only crickets from them. The K4 won't be much different; simple up front with the bulk of the used (but no need to be in your face) features accessible with the menu UI. Certainly it's a better platform for future growth with refinements unavailable when the earlier models were designed; but that's splitting hairs that only an extreme user (contesting, DXing) would require. It will be a solid, dependable radio, no matter how the ham chooses to use it; with growth potential unavailable from almost any other brand. Name any other company that gives you FREE firmware updates in real time (not months later like Icom or never like most others) until the issues are resolved to the user satisfaction; or that ADD features previously unavailable. Or offer hardware updates or refinements, in part because the radios are designed to be modular and upgradeable as new devices are available. Or board level support. No, I won't disparage or belittle any of the Elecraft line; the UI makes it all available (mostly set and forget); you get to talk directly with the designers and owners of the company and they do more than any other company to make things 'right' in the eyes of the customer/user; not just give cookie cutter designs and answers then move on with no help provided. And the product line just works better, hearing ability is among the very elite and transmitters are cleaner on the air than most of the other brands. If a user is constantly fiddling about with the controls; it's because they either want to or don't understand their proper use and should ask questions. Set and forget is an asset. Once set, the complexity hidden within the UI is one of the strong points, because it doesn't require an EE and operation becomes simple allowing the user to simply use and enjoy the radio. If the user has not looked into all the settings, perhaps it's because they haven't needed to do so. That's a telltale mark of a good product (although the ham SHOULD learn more about what tool/s they're using, in my opinion). Maybe you haven't dived into the depths, because you haven't needed to or other reasons; but I wouldn't group all users in that category. Each user has an level of understanding and ability; no two are exactly the same; no two stations are precisely alike. When I first get any piece of gear, I go through every setting, making sure I understand it's use (adjust if needed); then I stop being concerned about the vast array of choices and just use the radio. I may go back for refined adjustments, but that's not very often. I suspect most hams are similar to that method. If it's been a while, the manual, Cady book and group can be used (in that order) to find the proper control. By design, Elecraft radios can be used by a wide range of hams from basic noob to EE+ education; from ragchewers to extreme use>; they've hit the mark. They allow the hams to rise to higher level of understanding, competence and ability because of the quality; with some help from the manual, user groups, Cady book and DIRECT contact. VERY few companies are at that level, ot
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware development
I would venture to say that most hams (especially those recently licensed) don’t and can’t utilize all the features of even an older K3, let alone one with all the enhancements. The K4 is so far beyond the “average” ham in its ability that unless you are an electronics guru with an EE you won’t need, much less understand, all the neat things it can do. I am not disparaging the K3, K3S, or the K4 but whatever version you might have or want it will do the job 95% of the time. I love my upgraded K3s but still haven’t scratched the surface of what it will do. I could spend the rest of my life exploring all the features of my fine radio (I have all of Fred Cady’s books) but there are other avenues of enjoyment in ham radio that I am pursuing. This IS a hobby and it has been my go to in times of good and bad since 1960. Cheaper than a psychiatrist and less trouble than a mistress. What I have said above may not apply to the top of the list contester as that is a field all to itself. Those guys and gals may notice the difference in some of the enhancements to the K line in a pileup, but that’s another rabbit hole. Dave K8WPE since 1960. David J. Wilcox’s iPad > On Nov 24, 2020, at 11:03 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: > > While I agree with Skip here, my agreement is based on practicality, not > physical ability. The internal K3 hardware design is quite modular, and > replacing the DSP boards for the main and sub receivers should be straight > forward. We have seen how the K3 can be improved by replacing boards. > Upgrading the DSP is just another kind of new board. > > BUT, designing, coding, and manufacture engineering these boards is a big > project. The boards will be quite expensive. How many people are likely to > upgrade? And, we already have the K4, built to remain competitive in the > market. The K4 is probably a better radio than the mythical upgraded K3. The > upgrades to the K3 are also likely to cost more than a K4. All these > considerations make this project a non-starter. As I said, practical > considerations. > > 73 Bill AE6JV > >> On 11/24/20 at 6:03 PM, k6...@foothill.net (Fred Jensen) wrote: >> >> There's an inescapable rule in electronic product development: Once you >> commit to a physical design in year , it will be a design that uses the >> parts of year forever. I think about 2006 or so for the K3 [mine >> is S/N 642 and that's about when I bought it]. Yes, the firmware can be >> upgraded over time, but only within the constraints of 2006 components [like >> memory and CPU]. There is also the fact that eventually, you will run out >> of bells, whistles, and horns for updates. The K3 hit that point some time >> back. Elecraft had fixed all or nearly all of the bugs, they'd supported >> all of the add-on accessories, and I'm fairly sure the MCU is approaching >> it's limits. > > --- > Bill Frantz| Security is like Government | Periwinkle > (408)348-7900 | services. The market doesn't | 150 Rivermead Rd #235 > www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| Peterborough, NH 03458 > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to djwilco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
