Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II b...@wjschmidt.com wrote: These are roofing filters, so you will only notice a difference in adjacent frequency rejection of loud signals... so if you live out in the country and don't have any loud stations near you, it’s not likely you will ever perceive a difference between 5 pole and 8 pole filters. Will beg to differ here. It certainly is not just the loud local at issue. Another is the dB between the very weak desired IN-channel signal and the very loud close-in UN-desired station that is just barely up or down from you. If I had a dollar bill for every time I was trying to copy a very weak 40m, in-the-noise EU QRP station running a noodle antenna on the floor of his basement, with a 10 kW mildly clicky Italian station up 300 Hz with a three element beam up 180 feet aimed at the US, I could buy a lot of new equipment. Of course, we were using a five element full sized quad on 40m, but the K3 showing 45 over 9 for his signal seemed high. Between DX contests I did a complete alignment and calibration. The next time I ran into that station he was only (?) 40 over 9. Or maybe that was propagation. The ambient noise was S4. That's S4 in the 350 Hz 8 pole filter (250). So I'll give the argument the benefit of the doubt here call the QRP station S4, although probably he was only S3 at best. That's a 65 dB difference (probably 70) between the wanted and unwanted. What the 5 poles do NOT have, and the 8 poles DO have, is sharply steep skirts. The problem is to drop 65-70 dB in about 170 Hz. And do it without tuning off your run frequency. Knowing those kinds of situations, the other ops would not let me put a rig with 5 pole filters on the line. The 8 pole 350 with the DSP at 350 drops 65 dB off center zero in 250 Hz. With the NB set for medium key click cancel, that takes out my 40 over 9 up frequency neighbor and most people calling him and allows me to strain to copy the noodle QRP station with nothing but ambient noise as the enemy. Do I need that in mild casual operating? Heck no. But it serves me in many more situations than just when I have another station within a quarter mile. If I took my K3 out to the contest station with 5 pole filters for CW running bandwidth, the other ops wouldn't let me put it on the line. It would be an emergency spare only. As for SSB contesting, I use the 8 pole 1.8 roofers, and it just barely uncovers some signals from interference up and down. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
Since I operate very little on HF, then why did I buy the 8-pole filters? Because: 1. I figured they had steeper skirts for extreme operating conditions where adjacent strong signals were encountered. (very rarely happens in my neighborhood though a multi- super contesting station lies 10mi north of me). But someday I may be operating portable/mobile in the lower-48 where it will be appreciated. 2. I bought the KRX3 sub-receiver; matched filters were recommended. 3. I figured it would help re-sale value, someday. I bought: 13-KHz for FM (on VHF) 2.8-KHz (K3 required either 5 or 8-pole SSB filter) 400-Hz CW 2.8-KHz for KRX3. I wrongly bought an extra 13-KHz filter for the KRX3, not thinking clearly that the KRX3 would not be used for FM - I sold it here on the reflector after realizing my error. In practise I mostly use the 2.8-KHz roofing filter and set bw with the DSP, even on CW, which is mainly used for VHF or eme. The 400-Hz filter does appear to improve the sensitivity when running 200-Hz on CW-eme. Probably knocks down the noise bw of the receiver before the A/D converters. I avoid the HF contests and only participate in the Elecraft Net. Occasional psk-31 on 14.070, and very occasional general chatting on (mostly 20m). 99% activity is eme oriented which is 90% building/fixing and 10% operating. QRV on 17-bands 600m/3cm. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
This thread is closed. Joe's earlier posting was inappropriate and violated list guidelines. Please refrain from discussing this further. Please address complaints to the list manager (me), rather than posting here. 73, Eric elecraft.com On 1/21/2015 5:58 AM, W2BLC wrote: Hoorah! I thought this is a technical forum - not an elitist venue. Can we move on? Flame if you want - it just warms the bandwidth and wastes your time. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
This technical part of the discussion is of course, OK. My prior thread closure just posted under this topic referred to the improper postings in reference to maritime nets etc. Carry on. :-) 73, Eric elecraft.com On 1/21/2015 6:42 AM, dyarnes wrote: Hi All, Maybe I misinterpreted the data, but when I selected my filters, I opted for the 8 pole 400 hz, plus the 5 pole 200 hz. I selected the latter one simply because the actual width seemed more compatible in relation to what the 400 hz filter provided. The 250 hz filter almost overlapped the 400 hz filter. Besides, the 5 pole filters are not slouches! The 8 pole filters may have somewhat steeper skirts, but not to the point that they make the 5 pole filters a bad idea, or a serious compromise. In any event, I wasn’t trying to save the slight difference in cost. However, maybe I erred in my assessment, which I often do!!! I rarely have to go to the 200 hz filter, but when I do, it seems to do the job very nicely. Dave W7AQK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS! The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ.ANCIENT AND EL CHEAPO - Reeks with Condescension. There are documented instances where the Maritime Net has come to the assistance of distressedboaters on the high sea. Copied from the previous post. Sadly, when a major contest comes around i am forced to hide on the WARC bands. If not open then i find something else to do. I have all 8 pole filters but they dont help when a rude station blasts away less tha 1kc up/down from me running crap audio, an amp getting its ring flogged and a rig with all the knobs slammed to the right. Oh, and we cop it from EU and the US.Geography is irrevelant it seems.. No point in asking either. It is what it is i guess. 73 Gary Vk1ZZ Ham Radio is not only about Contesting! 73 Milverton. From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters On Tue,1/20/2015 11:34 PM, tnny...@yahoo.com wrote: The level of Snobbery here has crested the previous water mark. Not snobbery at all. I'm simply trying to save people money by advising them not to buy stuff they don't need. Someone who wants to operate on a crowded band needs narrow filters. it sounds like you and your friends do. The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ. I take pride in a very clean and narrow signal. My K3 with power amp has a -40 dB SSB bandwidth less than 3.5 kHz. If you want to operate next to me, you need to bring a good radio to the party. And I'm not going to QSY because you don't. And If I've established a run frequency and you've decided it's time for your net, you can look for an empty frequency, just like I had to. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tnny...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
On Tue,1/20/2015 11:34 PM, tnny...@yahoo.com wrote: The level of Snobbery here has crested the previous water mark. Not snobbery at all. I'm simply trying to save people money by advising them not to buy stuff they don't need. Someone who wants to operate on a crowded band needs narrow filters. it sounds like you and your friends do. The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ. I take pride in a very clean and narrow signal. My K3 with power amp has a -40 dB SSB bandwidth less than 3.5 kHz. If you want to operate next to me, you need to bring a good radio to the party. And I'm not going to QSY because you don't. And If I've established a run frequency and you've decided it's time for your net, you can look for an empty frequency, just like I had to. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
K3 with sub RX here. Both with stock 2.7kHz and five pole 500Hz filters. Not a contester but haunt DX and DXped piles. I have a neighbour 300 metres away with a 9+60 signal from another brand transceiver that fills any band he is on with S5 noise, somewhat less on adjacent bands but still there. Inclusion of a band filter between his transceiver and linear cures the adjacent band problem. A visiting K3 at the same location being used on SSB whilst I was on CW was not known to be on the band until I saw a spot. A quick check revealed that I could get within +/- 35kHz before noise became a problem. At that point I was till copying a VE SSB mobile at S2-3 without difficulty. The nice thing about the K3 is you can tell it lies about the filter setup, both width and offset. Both my unmatched filter pairs have exactly the same offset, I told the K3 they had. As far as I am aware this information is only used in the maths used to set the syth frequencies to make sure the filters are suitably positioned with respect to the desired audio passband. A 500Hz filter passband window error of a few tens of Hz is not an issue. I believe the matched filters are only good for 10Hz, could be wrong there. Five pole works for me. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 21/01/2015 02:55, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote: Well let's be clear here... These are roofing filters, so you will only notice a difference in adjacent frequency rejection of loud signals... so if you live out in the country and don't have any loud stations near you, it’s not likely you will ever perceive a difference between 5 pole and 8 pole filters. So the decision is driven more by the degree of loud stations operating adjacent to you... than by the type of operating you do. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner – Operator Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it at: http://www.vrbo.com/487375 email: b...@wjschmidt.com -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:23 PM To: Bill Coleman; Mike Zbrozek Cc: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters Bill, If you are not into 'hot and heavy' contesting or DXing in a pileup and/or diversity receive, you will find the 5 pole filters quite adequate. The problem is that the 8 pole filters have a better slope factor and do not have an offset. The offset is only important for diversity reception, and the slope factor is only important in situations where the band conditions are such that there are strong signals on adjacent frequencies -- as might be encountered in heavy contests or DX pileups. So if you are not interested in having the optimum receive capability in DX pileups and heavy contesting situations, save your $$$ and use the 5 pole filters. Some of us are more casual operators, and the $$$ savings can be significant. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/20/2015 11:17 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Mike Zbrozek k8...@verizon.net wrote: As a cw opr that is planning on buying a K3 next month I would like to know how many cw ops use/prefer 5 or 8 pole cw filters? Does anybody use the 1000 Hz 8 pole filter for hunting cq's then switch over to a 500 or 400 Hz filter? And how many cw ops use a sharper 200 or 250 Hz filter? Tnx in Advance Mike Zbrozek, K8XF I’m going to buck the trend a little bit. I only have one 8-pole filter — the 13 kHz FM filter. I see posts from a lot of guys who have a radio full of 8-pole filters. That’s nice — if you can afford it. Those filters are expensive. During the five years I spent dreaming of owning a K3, I had thought I only wanted to have the 8-pole filters. However, my wife (the best XYL ever!) ordered a very stock K3 for me for Christmas, and it came with the 2700 Hz (5-pole) filter. Swapping out this filter after the fact for the 2800 (8-pole) filter is even more expensive than ordering it in the first place. Because of the expense, I used the stock filter for about six months before contemplating anything. I bought the 13 kHz filter because it gave me FM and AM receive and transmit capability. I got the 500 Hz (5-pole) filter because someone offered it on this list at a greatly discounted price. The key thing to remember about the K3 is that the DSP IS your filter! You don’t have to buy any of those expensive crystal filters. PERIOD. The radio works great with just the stock filter. Do the expensive crystal filters make a difference? Yes. The 500 Hz filter makes a difference. I’ve got it configured to kick in at 450 Hz. There’s a distinct difference in the audio background noise switching to 450 from 500. During the 160m CW contest, this filter knocks down a lot of adjacent channel interference. I’m glad I have a narrow roofing filter available for CW, PSK and RTTY
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
Ham Radio is not only about Contesting! Neither is ham radio about bunch of Nets that only serve as claims to frequencies in direct contravention to the license terms of those who make them. THERE ARE MARITIME DISTRESS FREQUENCIES FOR THOSE ACTIVITIES! ANYONE WHO GOES ON THE WATER WITHOUT PROPER EQUIPMENT AND EXPECTS TO USE HAM RADIO TO BAIL HIS/HER BUT OUT IS A FOOL. That the Maritime Service Net has bailed out fools who were too cheap to purchase/install proper safety equipment only proves that the nets are populated by equal numbers of fools intent on enabling dangerous and foolish behavior. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-01-21 6:56 AM, Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft wrote: I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS! The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ.ANCIENT AND EL CHEAPO - Reeks with Condescension. There are documented instances where the Maritime Net has come to the assistance of distressedboaters on the high sea. Copied from the previous post. Sadly, when a major contest comes around i am forced to hide on the WARC bands. If not open then i find something else to do.I have all 8 pole filters but they dont help when a rude station blasts away less tha 1kc up/down from me running crap audio, an amp getting its ring flogged and a rig with all the knobs slammed to the right. Oh, and we cop it from EU and the US.Geography is irrevelant it seems.. No point in asking either. It is what it is i guess. 73 Gary Vk1ZZ Ham Radio is not only about Contesting! 73 Milverton. From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters On Tue,1/20/2015 11:34 PM, tnny...@yahoo.com wrote: The level of Snobbery here has crested the previous water mark. Not snobbery at all. I'm simply trying to save people money by advising them not to buy stuff they don't need. Someone who wants to operate on a crowded band needs narrow filters. it sounds like you and your friends do. The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ. I take pride in a very clean and narrow signal. My K3 with power amp has a -40 dB SSB bandwidth less than 3.5 kHz. If you want to operate next to me, you need to bring a good radio to the party. And I'm not going to QSY because you don't. And If I've established a run frequency and you've decided it's time for your net, you can look for an empty frequency, just like I had to. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tnny...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
Hi All, Maybe I misinterpreted the data, but when I selected my filters, I opted for the 8 pole 400 hz, plus the 5 pole 200 hz. I selected the latter one simply because the actual width seemed more compatible in relation to what the 400 hz filter provided. The 250 hz filter almost overlapped the 400 hz filter. Besides, the 5 pole filters are not slouches! The 8 pole filters may have somewhat steeper skirts, but not to the point that they make the 5 pole filters a bad idea, or a serious compromise. In any event, I wasn’t trying to save the slight difference in cost. However, maybe I erred in my assessment, which I often do!!! I rarely have to go to the 200 hz filter, but when I do, it seems to do the job very nicely. Dave W7AQK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
Hoorah! I thought this is a technical forum - not an elitist venue. Can we move on? Flame if you want - it just warms the bandwidth and wastes your time. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
And If I've established a run frequency and you've decided it's time for your net, you can look for an empty frequency, just like I had to. You're right Jim... however.. a qrp op doesn't have that right he has to move... when the Other mindset op comes on... so.. I'll speak up here. We own it... We've been here at this time for the last 150 years!! ok.. fine.. But the one that gets me.. is the We can't change freq.. because no one will find us. Don't they have vfos? I'm pretty sure that most of the radios used in nets today have vfos. And.. I'm pretty sure that if the operators don't know how to use the vfo, and their own skills to find the NCS.. they need to learn how.. and now would be a good time. I'm proud of my K2(s) and I expect anyone with almost any radio to be able to operate within a few cycles of me... They do all the time now... but not for long.. I move. It's kinda funny tho.. I can move and still make Qs.. many times I tune back and find they have given up moved on, calling empty returns... on a very productive freq for me. Part of the game, I suppose. Have a great day, --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
EXPECTS TO USE HAM RADIO TO BAIL HIS/HER BUT OUT IS A FOOL. Amazing! 73 Milverton / W9MMS From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters Ham Radio is not only about Contesting! Neither is ham radio about bunch of Nets that only serve as claims to frequencies in direct contravention to the license terms of those who make them. THERE ARE MARITIME DISTRESS FREQUENCIES FOR THOSE ACTIVITIES! ANYONE WHO GOES ON THE WATER WITHOUT PROPER EQUIPMENT AND EXPECTS TO USE HAM RADIO TO BAIL HIS/HER BUT OUT IS A FOOL. That the Maritime Service Net has bailed out fools who were too cheap to purchase/install proper safety equipment only proves that the nets are populated by equal numbers of fools intent on enabling dangerous and foolish behavior. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-01-21 6:56 AM, Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft wrote: I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS! The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ.ANCIENT AND EL CHEAPO - Reeks with Condescension. There are documented instances where the Maritime Net has come to the assistance of distressedboaters on the high sea. Copied from the previous post. Sadly, when a major contest comes around i am forced to hide on the WARC bands. If not open then i find something else to do. I have all 8 pole filters but they dont help when a rude station blasts away less tha 1kc up/down from me running crap audio, an amp getting its ring flogged and a rig with all the knobs slammed to the right. Oh, and we cop it from EU and the US.Geography is irrevelant it seems.. No point in asking either. It is what it is i guess. 73 Gary Vk1ZZ Ham Radio is not only about Contesting! 73 Milverton. From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters On Tue,1/20/2015 11:34 PM, tnny...@yahoo.com wrote: The level of Snobbery here has crested the previous water mark. Not snobbery at all. I'm simply trying to save people money by advising them not to buy stuff they don't need. Someone who wants to operate on a crowded band needs narrow filters. it sounds like you and your friends do. The contesters I know are up to here with nets comprised of operators with ancient and el cheapo radios defending the frequencies they own, justifying their ownership by calling them traffic nets, or maritime nets but almost never passing traffic and never checking in anyone on a boat, and rarely doing much more than checking in. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it gives those operators no more right to the frequency they have selected than the contester who hears an empty frequency, asks QRL?, hears nothing, and calls CQ. I take pride in a very clean and narrow signal. My K3 with power amp has a -40 dB SSB bandwidth less than 3.5 kHz. If you want to operate next to me, you need to bring a good radio to the party. And I'm not going to QSY because you don't. And If I've established a run frequency and you've decided it's time for your net, you can look for an empty frequency, just like I had to. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tnny...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tnny...@yahoo.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Mike Zbrozek k8...@verizon.net wrote: As a cw opr that is planning on buying a K3 next month I would like to know how many cw ops use/prefer 5 or 8 pole cw filters? Does anybody use the 1000 Hz 8 pole filter for hunting cq's then switch over to a 500 or 400 Hz filter? And how many cw ops use a sharper 200 or 250 Hz filter? Tnx in Advance Mike Zbrozek, K8XF I’m going to buck the trend a little bit. I only have one 8-pole filter — the 13 kHz FM filter. I see posts from a lot of guys who have a radio full of 8-pole filters. That’s nice — if you can afford it. Those filters are expensive. During the five years I spent dreaming of owning a K3, I had thought I only wanted to have the 8-pole filters. However, my wife (the best XYL ever!) ordered a very stock K3 for me for Christmas, and it came with the 2700 Hz (5-pole) filter. Swapping out this filter after the fact for the 2800 (8-pole) filter is even more expensive than ordering it in the first place. Because of the expense, I used the stock filter for about six months before contemplating anything. I bought the 13 kHz filter because it gave me FM and AM receive and transmit capability. I got the 500 Hz (5-pole) filter because someone offered it on this list at a greatly discounted price. The key thing to remember about the K3 is that the DSP IS your filter! You don’t have to buy any of those expensive crystal filters. PERIOD. The radio works great with just the stock filter. Do the expensive crystal filters make a difference? Yes. The 500 Hz filter makes a difference. I’ve got it configured to kick in at 450 Hz. There’s a distinct difference in the audio background noise switching to 450 from 500. During the 160m CW contest, this filter knocks down a lot of adjacent channel interference. I’m glad I have a narrow roofing filter available for CW, PSK and RTTY work. Bottom line — can you afford to put $700 (or $1400 if you buy the KRX3 option) worth of crystal filters in your radio? Yes? Good for you. No? Then the stock 5-pole filter works great. Splurge for the 500 Hz (5-pole) roofing filter instead of upgrading to the 2.8 kHz (8-pole) filter. PS - I just bought the KRX3 option and purchased it with the stock 2.7 kHz (5-pole) filter. I did spend the extra $30 to get a filter whose offset matches the offset of the filter in the main radio (-0.79). __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
On Jan 14, 2015, at 3:21 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV k2av@gmail.com wrote: I would note that in crowded contesting conditions, you pretty much have to use a filter which matches the DSP setting. What gets by the roofing filter can engage the defensive hardware AGC which is there to keep input to the analog to digital conversion in the sweet range of the AD device. This can become a problem with very loud signals right at the edge of the DSP passband, if the roofing filter is not close in bandwidth. I disagree with this assessment. The DSP filtering is quite good. You only have a problem with a wider roofing filter causing the hardware AGC pumping for extremely strong signals that happen to be within the bounds of the roofing filter, but outside the DSP filter. Unless the roofing filter is really wide (like using the 2.7 kHz filter in a CW contest) this doesn’t happen that often. I find the stock 2.7 kHz roofing filter more than adequate for SSB contesting, and the 500 Hz roofing filter perfect for CW and RTTY contesting. The K3 is a fantastic radio even if you don’t have a bunch of really expensive crystal filters…. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: aa...@arrl.net Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com Quote: Not within a thousand years will man ever fly! -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
Bill, If you are not into 'hot and heavy' contesting or DXing in a pileup and/or diversity receive, you will find the 5 pole filters quite adequate. The problem is that the 8 pole filters have a better slope factor and do not have an offset. The offset is only important for diversity reception, and the slope factor is only important in situations where the band conditions are such that there are strong signals on adjacent frequencies -- as might be encountered in heavy contests or DX pileups. So if you are not interested in having the optimum receive capability in DX pileups and heavy contesting situations, save your $$$ and use the 5 pole filters. Some of us are more casual operators, and the $$$ savings can be significant. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/20/2015 11:17 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Mike Zbrozek k8...@verizon.net wrote: As a cw opr that is planning on buying a K3 next month I would like to know how many cw ops use/prefer 5 or 8 pole cw filters? Does anybody use the 1000 Hz 8 pole filter for hunting cq's then switch over to a 500 or 400 Hz filter? And how many cw ops use a sharper 200 or 250 Hz filter? Tnx in Advance Mike Zbrozek, K8XF I’m going to buck the trend a little bit. I only have one 8-pole filter — the 13 kHz FM filter. I see posts from a lot of guys who have a radio full of 8-pole filters. That’s nice — if you can afford it. Those filters are expensive. During the five years I spent dreaming of owning a K3, I had thought I only wanted to have the 8-pole filters. However, my wife (the best XYL ever!) ordered a very stock K3 for me for Christmas, and it came with the 2700 Hz (5-pole) filter. Swapping out this filter after the fact for the 2800 (8-pole) filter is even more expensive than ordering it in the first place. Because of the expense, I used the stock filter for about six months before contemplating anything. I bought the 13 kHz filter because it gave me FM and AM receive and transmit capability. I got the 500 Hz (5-pole) filter because someone offered it on this list at a greatly discounted price. The key thing to remember about the K3 is that the DSP IS your filter! You don’t have to buy any of those expensive crystal filters. PERIOD. The radio works great with just the stock filter. Do the expensive crystal filters make a difference? Yes. The 500 Hz filter makes a difference. I’ve got it configured to kick in at 450 Hz. There’s a distinct difference in the audio background noise switching to 450 from 500. During the 160m CW contest, this filter knocks down a lot of adjacent channel interference. I’m glad I have a narrow roofing filter available for CW, PSK and RTTY work. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
I'm a contester, so I have tight 8-pole filters. I've often advised those who are not contesters to go with no additional roofing filters and add only on the air experience has taught them that they need. Jim, I really hate to burst your bubble, you being a CONTESTER and all.However! On any given contest weekend, the Non Contester are the ones who really need theTight Filters because some inconsiderate holier than god contester will start calling CQ 1500 hz next to an existing QSO. (14.300) catches HELL during contest weekend. I'm really glad that you are a Contester, but I get the impression from your audacious statementthat if one is not among the coveted contesters then they would not know the need of such sophisticatedgadgetry. K2AV and I are both contesters (and engineers), and we have independently arrived at the same point. The level of Snobbery here has crested the previous water mark. I guess Ham Radio is only for CONTESTERS. Just my $0.02 worth. 73 Milverton / W9MMS From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters On Tue,1/20/2015 9:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: If you are not into 'hot and heavy' contesting or DXing in a pileup and/or diversity receive, you will find the 5 pole filters quite adequate. I agree completely. I'm a contester, so I have tight 8-pole filters. I've often advised those who are not contesters to go with no additional roofing filters and add only on the air experience has taught them that they need. K2AV and I are both contesters (and engineers), and we have independently arrived at the same point. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tnny...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
I use the 8 pole Xtal filter, and love it for CW... You are in for such a treat once you get your K3 going on CW... The rig is a wet dream for CW ops. -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 23:17 -0500, Bill Coleman wrote: On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Mike Zbrozek k8...@verizon.net wrote: As a cw opr that is planning on buying a K3 next month I would like to know how many cw ops use/prefer 5 or 8 pole cw filters? Does anybody use the 1000 Hz 8 pole filter for hunting cq's then switch over to a 500 or 400 Hz filter? And how many cw ops use a sharper 200 or 250 Hz filter? Tnx in Advance Mike Zbrozek, K8XF I’m going to buck the trend a little bit. I only have one 8-pole filter — the 13 kHz FM filter. I see posts from a lot of guys who have a radio full of 8-pole filters. That’s nice — if you can afford it. Those filters are expensive. During the five years I spent dreaming of owning a K3, I had thought I only wanted to have the 8-pole filters. However, my wife (the best XYL ever!) ordered a very stock K3 for me for Christmas, and it came with the 2700 Hz (5-pole) filter. Swapping out this filter after the fact for the 2800 (8-pole) filter is even more expensive than ordering it in the first place. Because of the expense, I used the stock filter for about six months before contemplating anything. I bought the 13 kHz filter because it gave me FM and AM receive and transmit capability. I got the 500 Hz (5-pole) filter because someone offered it on this list at a greatly discounted price. The key thing to remember about the K3 is that the DSP IS your filter! You don’t have to buy any of those expensive crystal filters. PERIOD. The radio works great with just the stock filter. Do the expensive crystal filters make a difference? Yes. The 500 Hz filter makes a difference. I’ve got it configured to kick in at 450 Hz. There’s a distinct difference in the audio background noise switching to 450 from 500. During the 160m CW contest, this filter knocks down a lot of adjacent channel interference. I’m glad I have a narrow roofing filter available for CW, PSK and RTTY work. Bottom line — can you afford to put $700 (or $1400 if you buy the KRX3 option) worth of crystal filters in your radio? Yes? Good for you. No? Then the stock 5-pole filter works great. Splurge for the 500 Hz (5-pole) roofing filter instead of upgrading to the 2.8 kHz (8-pole) filter. PS - I just bought the KRX3 option and purchased it with the stock 2.7 kHz (5-pole) filter. I did spend the extra $30 to get a filter whose offset matches the offset of the filter in the main radio (-0.79). __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
On Tue,1/20/2015 9:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: If you are not into 'hot and heavy' contesting or DXing in a pileup and/or diversity receive, you will find the 5 pole filters quite adequate. I agree completely. I'm a contester, so I have tight 8-pole filters. I've often advised those who are not contesters to go with no additional roofing filters and add only on the air experience has taught them that they need. K2AV and I are both contesters (and engineers), and we have independently arrived at the same point. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters
Well let's be clear here... These are roofing filters, so you will only notice a difference in adjacent frequency rejection of loud signals... so if you live out in the country and don't have any loud stations near you, it’s not likely you will ever perceive a difference between 5 pole and 8 pole filters. So the decision is driven more by the degree of loud stations operating adjacent to you... than by the type of operating you do. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner – Operator Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it at: http://www.vrbo.com/487375 email: b...@wjschmidt.com -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:23 PM To: Bill Coleman; Mike Zbrozek Cc: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Bulk] 8 or5 Pole cw filters Bill, If you are not into 'hot and heavy' contesting or DXing in a pileup and/or diversity receive, you will find the 5 pole filters quite adequate. The problem is that the 8 pole filters have a better slope factor and do not have an offset. The offset is only important for diversity reception, and the slope factor is only important in situations where the band conditions are such that there are strong signals on adjacent frequencies -- as might be encountered in heavy contests or DX pileups. So if you are not interested in having the optimum receive capability in DX pileups and heavy contesting situations, save your $$$ and use the 5 pole filters. Some of us are more casual operators, and the $$$ savings can be significant. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/20/2015 11:17 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Mike Zbrozek k8...@verizon.net wrote: As a cw opr that is planning on buying a K3 next month I would like to know how many cw ops use/prefer 5 or 8 pole cw filters? Does anybody use the 1000 Hz 8 pole filter for hunting cq's then switch over to a 500 or 400 Hz filter? And how many cw ops use a sharper 200 or 250 Hz filter? Tnx in Advance Mike Zbrozek, K8XF I’m going to buck the trend a little bit. I only have one 8-pole filter — the 13 kHz FM filter. I see posts from a lot of guys who have a radio full of 8-pole filters. That’s nice — if you can afford it. Those filters are expensive. During the five years I spent dreaming of owning a K3, I had thought I only wanted to have the 8-pole filters. However, my wife (the best XYL ever!) ordered a very stock K3 for me for Christmas, and it came with the 2700 Hz (5-pole) filter. Swapping out this filter after the fact for the 2800 (8-pole) filter is even more expensive than ordering it in the first place. Because of the expense, I used the stock filter for about six months before contemplating anything. I bought the 13 kHz filter because it gave me FM and AM receive and transmit capability. I got the 500 Hz (5-pole) filter because someone offered it on this list at a greatly discounted price. The key thing to remember about the K3 is that the DSP IS your filter! You don’t have to buy any of those expensive crystal filters. PERIOD. The radio works great with just the stock filter. Do the expensive crystal filters make a difference? Yes. The 500 Hz filter makes a difference. I’ve got it configured to kick in at 450 Hz. There’s a distinct difference in the audio background noise switching to 450 from 500. During the 160m CW contest, this filter knocks down a lot of adjacent channel interference. I’m glad I have a narrow roofing filter available for CW, PSK and RTTY work. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to b...@wjschmidt.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
