Re: [Elecraft] AMP-HR Display

[Bill Johnson]

Did you go into the battery menu?

Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Skip Kazmarek
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 5:46 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] AMP-HR Display

I finally got my KX2, which is my first-ever Elecraft! Which means I'm both 
excited and inept! (How's that for a combination?) My first stumbling block is 
this: I can't get the display to show amp-hours since the last reset. All it 
shows is .**. If I hit reset, it flashes 0.0 for a moment, and then goes 
back to *.**. All of the other display items work fine, and it cycles 
through them as expected. I'm sure there's a setting somewhere, but I can't 
seem to find it.

 

Sorry if this is obvious (or if the answer is RTFM), but thanks for any help. 
After I get menu at a new system of menu logic, maybe I can return the favor 
someday.

73 Skip K4EAK

 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

E. A. Skip Kazmarek

Atlanta, GA

 

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[Elecraft] AMP-HR Display

[Skip Kazmarek]

I finally got my KX2, which is my first-ever Elecraft! Which means I'm both
excited and inept! (How's that for a combination?) My first stumbling block
is this: I can't get the display to show amp-hours since the last reset. All
it shows is .**. If I hit reset, it flashes 0.0 for a moment, and then
goes back to *.**. All of the other display items work fine, and it
cycles through them as expected. I'm sure there's a setting somewhere, but I
can't seem to find it.

 

Sorry if this is obvious (or if the answer is RTFM), but thanks for any
help. After I get menu at a new system of menu logic, maybe I can return the
favor someday.

73 Skip K4EAK

 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

E. A. Skip Kazmarek

Atlanta, GA

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Connect K3S to Non-elecraft Amp (WU6R)

[Jim Brown]

On 10/18/2020 5:51 PM, Steve Sykes wrote:
> You should also set a TX delay of at least 10 ms in the K3S, so of 
the solid state amps require more, maybe 20 ms


That depends a LOT on the amp. I'd RTFM for the amp before setting that 
much delay, which is usually limited by antenna TR switching. TenTec 
made one (maybe the first) solid state ham amp, and all of their amps 
used vacuum relays for antenna switching. They switched in less than 8 
msec. K4XU, designer of TenTec's tube amps later worked for Alpha. The 
86 and 87A were the last he did for them. They used diode switching, 
which is very fast. And in bar conversation, he made a point of saying 
that he designed the RF section, not the control circuitry.


I operated two of his TenTec Titan 425, bought used (their first legal 
limit tube amp) in my station for about 12 years of heavy contesting, 
until my purse got heavy enough to replace them with a pair of used 
87As, and this past summer, one of the 87As became a spare for a KPA1500 
(so I could get legal limit on 6M). Elecraft amps also use diode 
switching for antennas.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Connect K3S to Non-elecraft Amp (WU6R)

[Mark Wheeler via Elecraft]

Thanks,

Mark

> On Oct 18, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> K3 key out to amp key in or PTT plus usual RF cable. No Alc. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
> 
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2020, at 7:56 PM, Mark Wheeler via Elecraft 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> How do I connect my K3S to a non-Elecraft amp?  The amp has an ALC and PTT 
>> RCA connections.  The K3S has PTT In and Key Out RCA connections. 
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> Mark WU6R
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Re: [Elecraft] Connect K3S to Non-elecraft Amp (WU6R)

[Nr4c]

K3 key out to amp key in or PTT plus usual RF cable. No Alc. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Oct 18, 2020, at 7:56 PM, Mark Wheeler via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> How do I connect my K3S to a non-Elecraft amp?  The amp has an ALC and PTT 
> RCA connections.  The K3S has PTT In and Key Out RCA connections. 
> 
> 
> 73,
> Mark WU6R
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Re: [Elecraft] Connect K3S to Non-elecraft Amp (WU6R)

[Jim Brown]

On 10/18/2020 4:54 PM, Mark Wheeler via Elecraft wrote:
How do I connect my K3S to a non-Elecraft amp?  The amp has an ALC and 
PTT RCA connections.  The K3S has PTT In and Key Out RCA connections.


Key Out to PTT on the amp. Do NOT use ALC -- it's a recipe for splatter 
and clicks. Always set amp power by adjusting power out on the transceiver.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] Connect K3S to Non-elecraft Amp (WU6R)

[Mark Wheeler via Elecraft]

How do I connect my K3S to a non-Elecraft amp?  The amp has an ALC and PTT RCA 
connections.  The K3S has PTT In and Key Out RCA connections. 


73,
Mark WU6R
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Failure, Efficiency

[Andy Durbin]

I had one off-line request for my test data so I'll share a link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uf258k1nw8o7xw3/Evaluation%20KPA500%20PA%20Dissipation%20rev%20ad4.pdf?dl=0

I have previously shared other links to reports that are based on the same raw 
data set.

Please note that the plots in this report contain no data for efficiency but 
efficiency can be derived from the plotted data.

Efficiency is the ratio of RF output to PA DC input power.   You can derive DC 
input power from the plotted data by adding RF output to PA dissipation.  In 
the raw data set I have PA voltage, PA current, and RF output.  I calculate PA 
DC input power then subtract RF output to give PA dissipation.

This is a draft report and may contain errors.  Comments on test method or 
results are welcome.  My QRZ address is valid.


Andy, k3wyc




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[Elecraft] Amp Failure, Efficiency

[Roger D Johnson]

With a switchmode power supply, it would seem to be simple
to provide one or more lower voltage outputs to keep efficiency
up at lower powers (maintain same load Z).

73, Roger

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[Elecraft] Amp Failure, Efficiency

[Andy Durbin]

"It's heat that stresses the transistors, not efficiency. The numbers show more 
dissipation with increasing power level."

Which number show that?  My test data for the KPA500 are very clear.  Peak PA 
dissipation for any given load is at about half power output.  

Andy, k3wyc

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[Elecraft] Amp Failure, Efficiency

[Wilson Lamb]

It's heat that stresses the transistors, not efficiency.
The numbers show more dissipation with increasing power level.
WL
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[Elecraft] TR7 power in regard to running an Elecraft amp

[Brian]

I spoke to a Drake tech way back when on some matters. His advice was to turn 
the ALC (or whatever it was for drive level) for the TR7 on the small internal 
pot to keep it at 100w, rather than full power or even less than the full 
possible. This was long term better for finals I think and left some cushion 
overall for the ratings. Its power, no surprise, goes down as one approaches 
using the 10 m band... a band I have rarely been on... even 12m is a bit rare 
for me, personally.
So I turned the power down...small difference between the 100w or so on 80 
versus just that much more it can in theory do in a not so practical actual 
sense, given it is an  old rig and who knows what re. replacement finals etc.

FWIW
Brien VE3VAW



Sent from Outlook
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Jim Brown]

On 7/24/2018 5:12 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

A couple things not mentioned below is that the Flex amp is
SO2R capable and has a higher list price.


Is it being shipped?

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Ignacy]

My experiences are similar to those by Igor.

I use K3 with SPE 2k. Very convenient with 6 antenna connectors with 3
antennas per band. Turns on and off with K3 and follows bands. Antenna
switch and ATU are active with teh amp off. But 2k is heavy and the PS
generates some spurs. 

I used KX3 with SPE 1.3k. Smooth integration. Light. No PS spurs. 4 antenna
connectors with two antennas per band. 

Ignacy, NO9E 



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Barry Baines via Elecraft]

Larry:

> On Jul 24, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Larry (K8UT)  wrote:
> 
> The most important difference between the Elecraft KPA1500 and the FlexRadio 
> PowerGenius XL is that you can actually buy one of the KPA1500s.
> 
> According to the FlexRadio website, the PowerGenius - announced over two 
> years ago - is still just taking reservations.

Perhaps it is a question of semantics, but Flex did start shipping the PGXL 
starting in May (the week after Hamvention). I received mine the week after 
Memorial Day.

However, on 5 JUL 18 FlexRadio Systems released an e-mail that states in part,

"Last month, as more users began exercising the 6-meter (6M) band in the 
exciting new FT8 mode, units began showing stress in a way not previously 
experienced. As a result, an issue in the post-amplifier 6M filter was 
identified. Our engineering team has already identified root cause and 
incorporated changes into the design to resolve the stress issues with the amp.

Unfortunately, this has further delayed our delivery plan, and at this time we 
expect to resume shipments in approximately 8 - 10 weeks.”


Arrangements are also being made for PGXL owners to ship their units back for 
repair at Flex’s expense and the two-year warranty will be reset to when the 
unit is returned to the owner following update.In the meantime, FRS 
suggests that owners not run their PGXL above 500 Watts on Six Meters.  I  have 
not yet been contacted by Flex to ship my unit back;  I presume they’re spacing 
returns in order to minimize turn around time.  As I don’t have a six meter 
antenna, this limitation doesn’t impact my current operation.   I also have an 
Elecraft station at the same QTH (K3-P3-KPA500-KAT500, Remote Rig for use with 
the K3/I0 located elsewhere) and obviously don’t operate six meters with it as 
well.   

So yes, a PGXL ordered today will not be immediately delivered and I have no 
idea at this point as to their order backlog, but FRS did initiate deliveries 
in May and from I’ve heard from those that have them are really excited about 
the amp.  What is more concerning to me is that the automatic tuner to 
accompany the PGXL is still under development.   Given the lack of a tuner that 
can handle the PGXL, I’m essentially limited to use of my tri-bander whereas 
the KAT500 allows me to tune up the EFHW I have for whatever band segment I 
want for use with the K3/KPA500.

Bottom line is that for remote operation (my primary means of operating HF), 
there are significant advantages in using the FRS approach to product design, 
but there are other advantages with using the Elecraft product line which is 
why I’m keeping my Elecraft setup. In my mind, the ‘perfect remote setup’ would 
be a blending of the two systems…   ;-)


FWIW,

Barry, WD4ASW
Keller, TX
(Currently in Columbia, SC)








> 
> -larry (K8UT)
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "j...@kk9a.com" 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 2018-07-24 08:12:53
> Subject: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons
> 
>> K7ERQ left EHAM reviews on both, it would be nice if he wrote a
>> comparison.  A couple things not mentioned below is that the Flex amp is
>> SO2R capable and has a higher list price.
>> 
>> John KK9A
>> 
>> 
>> K9MA wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/23/2018 21:37, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>> Any side by side with the KPA1500 and the Flex Power Genius yet?
>>> 
>> I haven't seen any yet. I did have a conversation last year with 4O3A,
>> designer of the Power Genius. From what Ranko said, the Flex amp seemed
>> to have more headroom than the KPA1500, which might result in better
>> linearity at 1.5 kW, albeit at the expense of efficiency. (The specs say
>> "capable of 2 kW.") There is some scheme to dynamically adjust the
>> supply voltage for higher efficiency at lower power, I presume for CW
>> and RTTY, where linearity isn't a big issue. I read somewhere that
>> supply voltage is NOT modulated in SSB mode, which I imagine would cause
>> lots of nonlinearity.  The Flex amp can do predistortion with their
>> radios. However, the KPA1500 also has an output sampling port, which
>> should allow it to do predistortion also with a radio capable of it,
>> probably including the Flex. (I wouldn't be surprised if Elecraft came
>> out with that feature eventually. Could that be the reason it has that
>> sampling port?)
>> 
>> The Flex amp has an external ATU, which 4O3A strongly favors, but I
>> think that's a personal preference. For most stations, with antennas
>> that aren't always below 1.5:1, a solid state amplifier without an ATU
>> is pretty useless, so I think Elecraft's decision to integrate it makes
>> sense.
>> 
>> While the Flex amp can certainly be made to work with Elecraft radi

Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Larry (K8UT)]

The most important difference between the Elecraft KPA1500 and the 
FlexRadio PowerGenius XL is that you can actually buy one of the 
KPA1500s.


According to the FlexRadio website, the PowerGenius - announced over two 
years ago - is still just taking reservations.


-larry (K8UT)

-- Original Message --
From: "j...@kk9a.com" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 2018-07-24 08:12:53
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons


K7ERQ left EHAM reviews on both, it would be nice if he wrote a
comparison.  A couple things not mentioned below is that the Flex amp 
is

SO2R capable and has a higher list price.

John KK9A


K9MA wrote:


On 7/23/2018 21:37, Gary K9GS wrote:

Any side by side with the KPA1500 and the Flex Power Genius yet?


I haven't seen any yet. I did have a conversation last year with 4O3A,
designer of the Power Genius. From what Ranko said, the Flex amp seemed
to have more headroom than the KPA1500, which might result in better
linearity at 1.5 kW, albeit at the expense of efficiency. (The specs 
say

"capable of 2 kW.") There is some scheme to dynamically adjust the
supply voltage for higher efficiency at lower power, I presume for CW
and RTTY, where linearity isn't a big issue. I read somewhere that
supply voltage is NOT modulated in SSB mode, which I imagine would 
cause

lots of nonlinearity.  The Flex amp can do predistortion with their
radios. However, the KPA1500 also has an output sampling port, which
should allow it to do predistortion also with a radio capable of it,
probably including the Flex. (I wouldn't be surprised if Elecraft came
out with that feature eventually. Could that be the reason it has that
sampling port?)

The Flex amp has an external ATU, which 4O3A strongly favors, but I
think that's a personal preference. For most stations, with antennas
that aren't always below 1.5:1, a solid state amplifier without an ATU
is pretty useless, so I think Elecraft's decision to integrate it makes
sense.

While the Flex amp can certainly be made to work with Elecraft radios,
the seamless integration with the KPA1500 is very attractive. I'm happy
with mine so far.

73,

Scott K9MA

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[Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[j...@kk9a.com]

K7ERQ left EHAM reviews on both, it would be nice if he wrote a
comparison.  A couple things not mentioned below is that the Flex amp is
SO2R capable and has a higher list price.

John KK9A


K9MA wrote:


On 7/23/2018 21:37, Gary K9GS wrote:
> Any side by side with the KPA1500 and the Flex Power Genius yet?
>
I haven't seen any yet. I did have a conversation last year with 4O3A,
designer of the Power Genius. From what Ranko said, the Flex amp seemed
to have more headroom than the KPA1500, which might result in better
linearity at 1.5 kW, albeit at the expense of efficiency. (The specs say
"capable of 2 kW.") There is some scheme to dynamically adjust the
supply voltage for higher efficiency at lower power, I presume for CW
and RTTY, where linearity isn't a big issue. I read somewhere that
supply voltage is NOT modulated in SSB mode, which I imagine would cause
lots of nonlinearity.  The Flex amp can do predistortion with their
radios. However, the KPA1500 also has an output sampling port, which
should allow it to do predistortion also with a radio capable of it,
probably including the Flex. (I wouldn't be surprised if Elecraft came
out with that feature eventually. Could that be the reason it has that
sampling port?)

The Flex amp has an external ATU, which 4O3A strongly favors, but I
think that's a personal preference. For most stations, with antennas
that aren't always below 1.5:1, a solid state amplifier without an ATU
is pretty useless, so I think Elecraft's decision to integrate it makes
sense.

While the Flex amp can certainly be made to work with Elecraft radios,
the seamless integration with the KPA1500 is very attractive. I'm happy
with mine so far.

73,

Scott K9MA

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Igor Sokolov]

I have used SPE 1K  with my K3 for almost 8 years. I am now using SPE 
1.3 with both K3 and KX3 connected for SO2R. No issues with integration 
at all (just coax and  3 wire control cable), cheaper then Elecraft, 
weight is under 10 Kg even with antenna tuner built in, SO2R with just 1 
amp, 4 antennas switchable by the amplifier itself (another level of 
integration). IMHO KX3 + SPE 1.3 is the best combo for expeditions of 
field operation. I really like Elecraft but as far as amplifier is 
concerned  SPE is better for my needs.


73, Igor UA9CDC


24.07.2018 10:24, Jim Brown пишет:

On 7/23/2018 6:36 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

BOTTOM LINE:  My next amp purchase would/will be a KPA-1500.


Mine too. Normally, there are three amps on my desk -- two 87As for 
high power, SO2R contesting, and a KPA500 for 6M and instant on). For 
about two weeks, I've been running a borrowed KPA1500, mostly on 6M 
(but used it to work 57 of the 63 WRTC stations on 20M). It's a VERY 
nice amp. I had an SPE 1K for a while and really disliked it.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Jim Brown]

On 7/23/2018 6:36 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

BOTTOM LINE:  My next amp purchase would/will be a KPA-1500.


Mine too. Normally, there are three amps on my desk -- two 87As for high 
power, SO2R contesting, and a KPA500 for 6M and instant on). For about 
two weeks, I've been running a borrowed KPA1500, mostly on 6M (but used 
it to work 57 of the 63 WRTC stations on 20M). It's a VERY nice amp. I 
had an SPE 1K for a while and really disliked it.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[K9MA]

On 7/23/2018 21:37, Gary K9GS wrote:

Any side by side with the KPA1500 and the Flex Power Genius yet?

I haven't seen any yet. I did have a conversation last year with 4O3A, 
designer of the Power Genius. From what Ranko said, the Flex amp seemed 
to have more headroom than the KPA1500, which might result in better 
linearity at 1.5 kW, albeit at the expense of efficiency. (The specs say 
"capable of 2 kW.") There is some scheme to dynamically adjust the 
supply voltage for higher efficiency at lower power, I presume for CW 
and RTTY, where linearity isn't a big issue. I read somewhere that 
supply voltage is NOT modulated in SSB mode, which I imagine would cause 
lots of nonlinearity.  The Flex amp can do predistortion with their 
radios. However, the KPA1500 also has an output sampling port, which 
should allow it to do predistortion also with a radio capable of it, 
probably including the Flex. (I wouldn't be surprised if Elecraft came 
out with that feature eventually. Could that be the reason it has that 
sampling port?)


The Flex amp has an external ATU, which 4O3A strongly favors, but I 
think that's a personal preference. For most stations, with antennas 
that aren't always below 1.5:1, a solid state amplifier without an ATU 
is pretty useless, so I think Elecraft's decision to integrate it makes 
sense.


While the Flex amp can certainly be made to work with Elecraft radios, 
the seamless integration with the KPA1500 is very attractive. I'm happy 
with mine so far.


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Charlie T]

Anybody out there interested in a swap for my QRO-3KDX that runs a pair of 
4CX800A's?
I'd be interested in any sort of deal we could work out for a KPA-500,  SPE 
amp, or ???.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Richard Thorne
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 9:51 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons


Rick,

I have a KPA-1500 and a KPA-500.  To be honest, with my decent antenna system, 
500 watts is plenty, most of the time.  I purchased the KPA-1500 as I plan to 
get serious chasing DX on the low bands.

If you already have a K3 I would stay with Elecraft and get either KPA model, 
you just need to decide on power output.

Rich - N5ZC


On 7/23/2018 8:22 PM, Rick Reynolds wrote:
> I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In consideration are kpa500, spe 1.3k, and 
> kpa1500. Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more capabilities.  Any 
> feedback from the group? I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but 
> haven't seen many.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick NJ5W
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Gary K9GS]

Any side by side with the KPA1500 and the Flex Power Genius yet?






73,
Gary K9GS
 Original message From: j...@kk9a.com Date: 7/23/18  9:19 PM  
(GMT-06:00) To: 'Elecraft Reflector'  Subject: 
[Elecraft]  Amp comparisons 
I have yet to see a pre-owned KPA1500 for sale but I do see a lot of used
KPA500's and KAT500's.  I saw this one earlier today:

 https://swap.qth.com/view_ad.php?counter=1394347

John KK9A


Rick Reynolds NJ5W wrote:

 I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but haven't seen many.

Thanks

Rick NJ5W

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

After much investigation and consideration I elected to purchase the 
KPA-500/F.   Since I have the K3S and now the KAT-500,  I've "trained" 
the KAT-500 for the antennas and frequencies on each band.  With the VFO 
tracking, I dial the frequency and everything follows.


Specifically the KPA-500 I find to be very quiet, it delivers 500 watts 
+ on every band, 160 - 6M.  Drive power is about 25 watts on every 
band.  The fan is quiet and is of no concern even at the highest 
speed.   It does step down quickly as the amp cools. Normally the fan is 
off until the temperature rises.   Using it on FT-8 at 500 watts out, it 
will increment to #2 on occasion.    The input always appears as a 1:1 
SWR to the transceiver.    The high SWR circuit does protect the amp and 
is fast.  With my station configuration I feel as though I have a 500 
watt transceiver, automatically selecting antennas and tuning as 
needed.   I touch nothing but the VFO knob or enter the frequency for 
the next band.   Everything switches silently and automatically.


I come from a line of tube amps in the 1000 to 1200 watt class. Fans run 
all the time.  Power output varies with band as well as drive 
requirements.  Most seem to be optimized for 20M.   My last tube amp was 
a AL-80B and it was one of the smoothest tuning amps I've used.  Power 
out always 1000 + watts.   But it required tuning with each frequency 
and band change.


The difference in power is 3 dB or only 1/2 S unit.    All works for 
me.  I vote for the KPA-500.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/23/2018 8:22 PM, Rick Reynolds wrote:

I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In consideration are kpa500, spe 1.3k, and 
kpa1500. Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more capabilities.  Any 
feedback from the group? I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but 
haven't seen many.

Thanks

Rick NJ5W

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[Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[john]

I have yet to see a pre-owned KPA1500 for sale but I do see a lot of used
KPA500's and KAT500's.  I saw this one earlier today:

 https://swap.qth.com/view_ad.php?counter=1394347

John KK9A


Rick Reynolds NJ5W wrote:

 I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but haven't seen many.

Thanks

Rick NJ5W

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Fred Jensen]

I ran my 1;2 KW amp at 500 watts for close to a year before springing 
for the KPA500 just to see if it made any difference.  It probably would 
have were I an avid DX'er or contester.  At my casual level, I really 
noticed no difference. With a K3 I think the algorithm is:


if(I_want_full_power) {get_KPA1500}
if(I_want_to_save_a_few_bucks) {get KPA500}

The integration of either with the K3 is absolutely seamless.  I have no 
experience with the KPA1500 but the KPA500 was bulletproof, or so it 
seemed.  I also had the KAT500 which made a very compact moderate power 
station.


This is past tense, we moved to an HOA community and 500 watts into my 
end-fed WOOF antenna [Wire On Organic Fence] didn't seem like a good idea.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


On 7/23/2018 8:22 PM, Rick Reynolds wrote:
I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In consideration are kpa500, spe 
1.3k, and kpa1500. Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more 
capabilities.  Any feedback from the group? I was expecting to see 
more kpa500's for sale but haven't seen many.


Thanks

Rick NJ5W

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Richard Thorne]

Rick,

I have a KPA-1500 and a KPA-500.  To be honest, with my decent antenna 
system, 500 watts is plenty, most of the time.  I purchased the KPA-1500 
as I plan to get serious chasing DX on the low bands.


If you already have a K3 I would stay with Elecraft and get either KPA 
model, you just need to decide on power output.


Rich - N5ZC


On 7/23/2018 8:22 PM, Rick Reynolds wrote:

I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In consideration are kpa500, spe 1.3k, and 
kpa1500. Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more capabilities.  Any 
feedback from the group? I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but 
haven't seen many.

Thanks

Rick NJ5W

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Paul Baldock]

I had a SPE 1.5K for a couple of weeks. It 
struggles to make 1.5KW on all bands and on some 
doesn't make it. At 1.5KW there is around 2dB 
compression. It's great up to 1KW.


I've had the KPA1500 for about a month now. It 
makes 1.5KW with between a .5 and 1dB on all 
bands. It's more money than the SPE, but worth 
it. And of course excellent support from 
Elecraft. Integrates well with my TS-990.


- Paul KW7Y

At 06:36 PM 7/23/2018, Clay Autery wrote:
I've used a KPA-500 enough to appreciate the 
integration with my K3S. I am using an SPE 1K-FA 
right now, and it's nice, but required me to 
construct a custom cable to use it in the most 
integrated manner.  The 1.3, 1.5, ans 2K-FA 
require the same thing OR one of the new serial 
boxes mentioned in the last couple of days. The 
KPA-1500 offers both the integration of the 
KPA-500 and more power than the 
1.3K-FAÂ  Better to look at the price comp 
between the 1.5K-FA and the KPA-1500. I like the 
separate power supply on yhe KPA-1500. BOTTOM 
LINE:Â  My next amp purchase would/will be a 
KPA-1500. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy 
smartphone  Original message 
From: Rick Reynolds 
 Date: 
7/23/18  20:22  (GMT-06:00) To: 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Amp 
comparisons I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In 
consideration are kpa500, spe 1.3k, and kpa1500. 
Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more 
capabilities.  Any feedback from the group? I 
was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but 
haven't seen many. Thanks Rick NJ5W 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Clay Autery]

I've used a KPA-500 enough to appreciate the integration with my K3S.
I am using an SPE 1K-FA right now, and it's nice, but required me to construct 
a custom cable to use it in the most integrated manner.  The 1.3, 1.5, ans 
2K-FA require the same thing OR one of the new serial boxes mentioned in the 
last couple of days.
The KPA-1500 offers both the integration of the KPA-500 and more power than the 
1.3K-FA  Better to look at the price comp between the 1.5K-FA and the 
KPA-1500.
I like the separate power supply on yhe KPA-1500.
BOTTOM LINE:  My next amp purchase would/will be a KPA-1500.


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Rick Reynolds  
Date: 7/23/18  20:22  (GMT-06:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: 
[Elecraft] Amp comparisons 
I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In consideration are kpa500, spe 1.3k, and 
kpa1500. Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more capabilities.  Any 
feedback from the group? I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but 
haven't seen many.

Thanks

Rick NJ5W
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[Elecraft] Amp comparisons

[Rick Reynolds]

I'm looking at upgrading my amp. In consideration are kpa500, spe 1.3k, and 
kpa1500. Obviously increasing In cost as we gain more capabilities.  Any 
feedback from the group? I was expecting to see more kpa500's for sale but 
haven't seen many.

Thanks

Rick NJ5W

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Who does that on HF? I was assuming we were talking about 160-10 meters. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Charlie T, K3ICH
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:35 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

In some cases a dB or so CAN make a difference.  Otherwise, why bother to
put a ½dB noise figure GaAsFET pre-amp at the antenna just to overcome 2dB
of feedline loss?

At the other extreme, if you are being received at 20dB over S-9 running a
kilowatt, you'll still be S-5 at 100 milliwatts.


73, Charlie k3ICH

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Bill Johnson]

Ron, from my Signal Corps training, we operated under the fact that 10db 
improvement was needed to experience a doubling of perceived sound.  Since our 
signals are rf radiated sound, the same would apply. 

73,
Bill
K9YEQ



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau 
Claire
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:01 PM
To: 'Richard Thorne' <rtho...@rthorne.net>; 'Elecraft Reflector' 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

2 dB might make a difference if you are only interested in having your call 
sign dug out of the noise for a contest or DXCC contact.

Way back the early books from the 1930's that I read and the OT commercial 
operators from that era I knew said that under typical conditions found on the 
air, 6 dB was about the minimum change to hear a real difference in the signal 
while exchanging messages or other extended information. Those stations would 
not try a direct contact if the signals were "in the mud"
opting instead for trying again at different time or getting a relay.

In commercial operations we did not use the Ham RST system, but rather QSA 1 
through 5. 1 was a barely detected signal in the mud. 5 was a loud signal with 
perfect copy. I confess to doing about the same with Ham signals, choosing 
between at most five levels by ear for my report without reference to an 
S-meter.  

Personally, I've never gotten very excited about anything less than a 10 dB 
improvement, but the only DX I work are those calling me - usually for a rag 
chew - and I don't contest. 

And, for me, Ken's observation is quite right. If I get the bug to drop my 
Inverted L, rub some RF grease on the wire, neaten things up in general and 
restring it, I do think I am getting out better and stations seem to come back 
more quickly. Expectations are everything!

73, Ron AC7AC





-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken K6MR
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:27 PM
To: Richard Thorne; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I'm running my two KPAs combined. Is there a difference? That's one of those 
questions that is tough to answer. I worked lots of people with 500W. I work 
lots of people with 1000+ W.  I don't chase DXCC but things seem to work better 
on 160.


I do feel louder. I think it was N6TR that said (probably mis-quoted here) "If 
you feel loud you are loud".


Ken K6MR



From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Richard Thorne 
<rtho...@rthorne.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500 watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in gain, make a 
difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160, so 
maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or not having 
a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[K9MA]

While a couple dB may be hard to detect in a single QSO, averaged over 
many QSO's I think it makes a difference.  In the course of, say a 
contest weekend, that small difference means that, on the average, you 
will get through just a little more often and quickly, and you'll get a 
few more replies to your CQ's.  It adds up, even if it's hard to measure.


73,

Scott  K9MA


--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Erik Basilier]

Being able to clearly "hear the difference" might be a good criterion if you
are focused on the individual contact. If you are in a contest, making
hundreds of contacts, 1 dB makes a meaningful difference even if you cannot
hear the difference on any of the contacts.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron
D'Eau Claire
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:01 PM
To: 'Richard Thorne' <rtho...@rthorne.net>; 'Elecraft Reflector'
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

2 dB might make a difference if you are only interested in having your call
sign dug out of the noise for a contest or DXCC contact.

Way back the early books from the 1930's that I read and the OT commercial
operators from that era I knew said that under typical conditions found on
the air, 6 dB was about the minimum change to hear a real difference in the
signal while exchanging messages or other extended information. Those
stations would not try a direct contact if the signals were "in the mud"
opting instead for trying again at different time or getting a relay.

In commercial operations we did not use the Ham RST system, but rather QSA 1
through 5. 1 was a barely detected signal in the mud. 5 was a loud signal
with perfect copy. I confess to doing about the same with Ham signals,
choosing between at most five levels by ear for my report without reference
to an S-meter.  

Personally, I've never gotten very excited about anything less than a 10 dB
improvement, but the only DX I work are those calling me - usually for a rag
chew - and I don't contest. 

And, for me, Ken's observation is quite right. If I get the bug to drop my
Inverted L, rub some RF grease on the wire, neaten things up in general and
restring it, I do think I am getting out better and stations seem to come
back more quickly. Expectations are everything!

73, Ron AC7AC




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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

In some cases a dB or so CAN make a difference.  Otherwise, why bother to
put a ½dB noise figure GaAsFET pre-amp at the antenna just to overcome 2dB
of feedline loss?

At the other extreme, if you are being received at 20dB over S-9 running a
kilowatt, you'll still be S-5 at 100 milliwatts.


73, Charlie k3ICH


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron
D'Eau Claire
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:01 PM
To: 'Richard Thorne' <rtho...@rthorne.net>; 'Elecraft Reflector'
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

2 dB might make a difference if you are only interested in having your call
sign dug out of the noise for a contest or DXCC contact.

Way back the early books from the 1930's that I read and the OT commercial
operators from that era I knew said that under typical conditions found on
the air, 6 dB was about the minimum change to hear a real difference in the
signal while exchanging messages or other extended information. Those
stations would not try a direct contact if the signals were "in the mud"
opting instead for trying again at different time or getting a relay.

In commercial operations we did not use the Ham RST system, but rather QSA 1
through 5. 1 was a barely detected signal in the mud. 5 was a loud signal
with perfect copy. I confess to doing about the same with Ham signals,
choosing between at most five levels by ear for my report without reference
to an S-meter.  

Personally, I've never gotten very excited about anything less than a 10 dB
improvement, but the only DX I work are those calling me - usually for a rag
chew - and I don't contest. 

And, for me, Ken's observation is quite right. If I get the bug to drop my
Inverted L, rub some RF grease on the wire, neaten things up in general and
restring it, I do think I am getting out better and stations seem to come
back more quickly. Expectations are everything!

73, Ron AC7AC





-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken
K6MR
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:27 PM
To: Richard Thorne; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I'm running my two KPAs combined. Is there a difference? That's one of those
questions that is tough to answer. I worked lots of people with 500W. I work
lots of people with 1000+ W.  I don't chase DXCC but things seem to work
better on 160.


I do feel louder. I think it was N6TR that said (probably mis-quoted here)
"If you feel loud you are loud".


Ken K6MR



From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Richard
Thorne <rtho...@rthorne.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in gain,
make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160, so
maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or not
having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

2 dB might make a difference if you are only interested in having your call
sign dug out of the noise for a contest or DXCC contact.

Way back the early books from the 1930's that I read and the OT commercial
operators from that era I knew said that under typical conditions found on
the air, 6 dB was about the minimum change to hear a real difference in the
signal while exchanging messages or other extended information. Those
stations would not try a direct contact if the signals were "in the mud"
opting instead for trying again at different time or getting a relay.

In commercial operations we did not use the Ham RST system, but rather QSA 1
through 5. 1 was a barely detected signal in the mud. 5 was a loud signal
with perfect copy. I confess to doing about the same with Ham signals,
choosing between at most five levels by ear for my report without reference
to an S-meter.  

Personally, I've never gotten very excited about anything less than a 10 dB
improvement, but the only DX I work are those calling me - usually for a rag
chew - and I don't contest. 

And, for me, Ken's observation is quite right. If I get the bug to drop my
Inverted L, rub some RF grease on the wire, neaten things up in general and
restring it, I do think I am getting out better and stations seem to come
back more quickly. Expectations are everything!

73, Ron AC7AC





-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken
K6MR
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:27 PM
To: Richard Thorne; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I'm running my two KPAs combined. Is there a difference? That's one of those
questions that is tough to answer. I worked lots of people with 500W. I work
lots of people with 1000+ W.  I don't chase DXCC but things seem to work
better on 160.


I do feel louder. I think it was N6TR that said (probably mis-quoted here)
"If you feel loud you are loud".


Ken K6MR



From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Richard
Thorne <rtho...@rthorne.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in gain,
make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160, so
maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or not
having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Ken K6MR]

I use W6PQLs combiner/splitter pair for the RF paths.  I use an Arduino to 
handle switching the band data from the two K3s, along with the keyline.

I switch the pair between the radios using the Tx Focus line from a u2R as 
control, which drives 4 TopTen A/B switches to switch the combo between the 
radios.

I also modified the KPAs to increase their gain a bit. NX1P has a good writeup 
about removing the pad in the amp and modifying the power sense circuit.  The 
KPAs will work without modification, but I ran out of drive on the higher 
bands. Now getting 1000+ out on all bands is easy.

So far no problems. I use my logging program and the MicroHam router program to 
insert some delay between activation and RF application. So far it's been 
pretty bullet proof.


Ken K6MR


From: Bud Semon <bse...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:32:07 PM
To: Ken K6MR
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

Hi Ken,

How do you combine the 2 amps?  I think that was KK9A's question also, so if 
you answered on the reflector, it would probably be appreciated.

Thanks and 73,

Bud  N7CW

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Ken K6MR 
<k...@outlook.com<mailto:k...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I'm running my two KPAs combined. Is there a difference? That's one of those 
questions that is tough to answer. I worked lots of people with 500W. I work 
lots of people with 1000+ W.  I don't chase DXCC but things seem to work better 
on 160.


I do feel louder. I think it was N6TR that said (probably mis-quoted here) "If 
you feel loud you are loud".


Ken K6MR



From: Elecraft 
<elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>> on 
behalf of Richard Thorne <rtho...@rthorne.net<mailto:rtho...@rthorne.net>>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in
gain,  make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but
how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160,
so maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or
not having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Ken K6MR]

I'm running my two KPAs combined. Is there a difference? That's one of those 
questions that is tough to answer. I worked lots of people with 500W. I work 
lots of people with 1000+ W.  I don't chase DXCC but things seem to work better 
on 160.


I do feel louder. I think it was N6TR that said (probably mis-quoted here) "If 
you feel loud you are loud".


Ken K6MR



From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Richard Thorne 
<rtho...@rthorne.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in
gain,  make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but
how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160,
so maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or
not having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Frankly going to the higher power is really a engineering what if and looking 
at the new higher power devices rather than doubling up the 500.  IMHO
Mel, K6KBE


  From: "j...@kk9a.com" <j...@kk9a.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:13 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?
   
There are various circumstances and 1.76dB may or may not be important.
Much depends on your interests and goals.

I am curious how you combined two KPA500's. The commercial combiners that
I have seen are extremely expensive and are not set up for the KPA500
automatic band switching. Perhaps an Elecraft KPA combiner would would be
a good option?

John KK9A


from: Richard Thorne rthorne at rthorne.net
Thu Mar 30 12:31:48 EDT 2017

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in
gain,  make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but
how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160,
so maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or
not having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Richard Thorne]

Hi John,

I don't combine my KPA-500's.  I use them in an SO2R setup.

Rich - N5ZC

On 3/30/2017 1:53 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

There are various circumstances and 1.76dB may or may not be important.
Much depends on your interests and goals.

I am curious how you combined two KPA500's. The commercial combiners that
I have seen are extremely expensive and are not set up for the KPA500
automatic band switching. Perhaps an Elecraft KPA combiner would would be
a good option?

John KK9A


from: Richard Thorne rthorne at rthorne.net
Thu Mar 30 12:31:48 EDT 2017

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in
gain,  make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but
how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160,
so maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or
not having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

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[Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[j...@kk9a.com]

There are various circumstances and 1.76dB may or may not be important.
Much depends on your interests and goals.

I am curious how you combined two KPA500's. The commercial combiners that
I have seen are extremely expensive and are not set up for the KPA500
automatic band switching. Perhaps an Elecraft KPA combiner would would be
a good option?

John KK9A


from: Richard Thorne rthorne at rthorne.net
Thu Mar 30 12:31:48 EDT 2017

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500
watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in
gain,  make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but
how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160,
so maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or
not having a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Bill Johnson]

While thinking a little longer, how about a KPA500X with a combiner added into 
it so one could add on over time to the 1KW power either with the original 
purchase of a plain 500 watt amp or the one ready for expansion?

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill 
Johnson
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:01 PM
To: Richard Thorne <rtho...@rthorne.net>; Elecraft Reflector 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

Rich,  I am for Elecraft making an effective combiner to use 2 KPA500's.I 
would then have flexibility to use either for one 1kw or 2 500watt radios.  A 
1500 watt radio will be very heavy and I just sold my ~60# THP 2.5kfx as I was 
barely able to move it on my own and I am not getting any younger :-)  As you 
point out the slight gain to 1.5 KW isn't enough to warrant one that size to 
me.  When I had the THP I rarely pushed it past 900-100 watts anyway and had 
little trouble working EU on 80.  

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard 
Thorne
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:32 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500 watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in gain,  make 
a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160, so 
maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or not having 
a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Bill Johnson]

Rich,  I am for Elecraft making an effective combiner to use 2 KPA500's.I 
would then have flexibility to use either for one 1kw or 2 500watt radios.  A 
1500 watt radio will be very heavy and I just sold my ~60# THP 2.5kfx as I was 
barely able to move it on my own and I am not getting any younger :-)  As you 
point out the slight gain to 1.5 KW isn't enough to warrant one that size to 
me.  When I had the THP I rarely pushed it past 900-100 watts anyway and had 
little trouble working EU on 80.  

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard 
Thorne
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:32 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500 watts.

500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in gain,  make 
a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but how often?

I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160, so 
maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or not having 
a qso.

What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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[Elecraft] Amp Thoughts: 1000 watts or 1500 watts?

[Richard Thorne]

I have a pair of KPA-500's for an SO2R setup.  Seamless.

I've been running the numbers on the advantage of going to 1000 or 1500 
watts.


500 watts to 1000 watts - 3.01 db gain
500 watts to 1500 watts - 4.77 db gain

Will the increase from 1000 to 1500 watts or a 1.76 db increase in 
gain,  make a difference? I'm sure it would in some circumstances, but 
how often?


I'm just starting on my quest to increase my dxcc totals on 80 and 160, 
so maybe that 1.76 db would be the difference between a having a qso or 
not having a qso.


What are the thoughts of the serious low band guys?

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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[Elecraft] Amp/tuner

[John's email]

While I tend to operate QRP most of the time, I do have a KPA 100 with my KX3.  
When out in my RV I.  When I had a K3 I also had a KPA 500. I have the 20 watt 
tuner in the KX3 for picnic table ops. I use an SGC smart tuner in my rv and at 
home I have a SteppIR antenna that is always resonant no matter where I 
operate. I'd have to go along with the optional tuner in a big amp. It would do 
me no good to have a fixed tuner in the amp.  I did not order that tuner in my 
KPA 100. 
I am sure there are many others who have no need for a tuner but others who do. 
The simple and elegant solution is an optional add on tuner 

de ke4d


John

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Amp ...

[German Duran]

Hopefully

El sáb., 18 mar. 2017 9:47 a. m., Paul Van Dyke 
escribió:

> I Am The Firm belief that both Wayne and Eric are looking at this reflector
> very seriously, plus seeing the new designs that are on the market and how
> they made me improved for the elecraft market. I have a Command 2500 full
> limit amplifier, but would love to have a full limit Elecraft to match the
> k3s and other equipment on my desk. But until that time I will stay with
> what I have. Because if you Elecraft, they always have something new up
> their sleeve like a magician.
>
> Paul KB9AVO
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[Elecraft] Elecraft Amp ...

[Paul Van Dyke]

I Am The Firm belief that both Wayne and Eric are looking at this reflector
very seriously, plus seeing the new designs that are on the market and how
they made me improved for the elecraft market. I have a Command 2500 full
limit amplifier, but would love to have a full limit Elecraft to match the
k3s and other equipment on my desk. But until that time I will stay with
what I have. Because if you Elecraft, they always have something new up
their sleeve like a magician.

Paul KB9AVO
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Re: [Elecraft] amp-hr reading from kx2

[Cady, Fred]

Hi,
The VFO B display can show a wide variety of other information in addition to 
frequency by tapping DISP and rotating the VFO B knob.  However, you cannot 
display alternate VFO B data while data or CW text decode is active.


This shows the total ampere-hours used since the value was last reset.  It can 
be used to test batteries or estimate the remaining battery charge.  Holding 
OFS/B/CLR when in the AMP HRS menu resets the amp-hours to 0.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X Elecraft books, see www.ke7x.com.


From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Richard Donner 
<richarddn...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 8:25 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] amp-hr reading from kx2

hi
anyone know how to get the amp-hr usage on the kx2 ??
thanks
Richard
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[Elecraft] amp-hr reading from kx2

[Richard Donner]

hi
anyone know how to get the amp-hr usage on the kx2 ??
thanks
Richard
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gary Smith]

No worries Jim, I found out what I needed to know before proceeding, 
thanks for the reply.

Cheers!

73,

Gary, KA1J
> My apologies, Gary -- I misinterpreted your query72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614267.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Jim Rodenkirch]

My apologies, Gary -- I misinterpreted your query72 de Jim R. K9JWV



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614267.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Nr4c]

I already suggested the manual. Ye, download it and read it. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Feb 17, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> Fellows, it was just a simple question I asked here so as to not 
> bother the techs at Elecraft with what may be an arcane question.
> 
> I have the ATU kit and the amp kit in my hands, I'm not sending them 
> back. Why I want an ATU has nothing to do with my question.
> 
> FWIW, I do have resonant antennas; all of them from 160 through 10 
> are resonant. I sometimes take the radio out where I use a random 
> wire. It's difficult to make a random wire resonant when I'm on a 
> trip.
> 
> When you buy an assembled K3S, you do not get an assembly manual with 
> it. I guess I could download the Pdf but do I want to do things in 
> the same order as if I were assembling a K3s kit or when adding two 
> separate but related modules to an assembled K3? I don't know.
> 
> All I asked was; in an already assembled K3s/10, which of the two 
> should I install first. A couple of replies have said I should 
> install the ATU first. That's what I'll do.
> 
> Thanks to all that replied.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> 
>> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
>> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
>> first. 
>> 
>> Yes?
>> 
>> Thanks & 73,
>> 
>> Gary
>> KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft]

Jim! How does your answer relates to the " Original Poster's " Question???!
73 Milverton / W9MMS



  From: James Bennett <w6...@me.com>
 To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg
   
"Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.”

Well, not everyone has the luxury of enough real estate for a bunch of resonant 
antennas. When one wants to be able to operate multiple HF bands, a multi-band 
antenna (like a doublet), with tuner, works quite well. I, for one, would love 
to have several towers with resonant yagis, quads, etc. But living on a 
standard city lot with CCR/HOA restrictions pretty much sets a limit on what 
sort of antenna(s) can be erected. I use an 88 foot long doublet (skinny wire, 
stealthily hung in the trees) fed with home brew 600 ohm ladder line. It works 
great and I can operate on 60 - 6 meters with it. Without a tuner, that would 
not be possible.

JIm / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Don Wilhelm]

Gary,

It does not really make that much difference - there are no 
inter-dependencies.  The assembly manual tells builders to build up the 
K3S with the LPA first, then do the 5 watt calibration - that has 
already been done for you in your K3S/10 Factory assembly. After that, 
install the KAT3 (if you have it), and then install the KPA3, and then 
do the 50 watt TX Gain Calibration.  That order is not really important 
because there is no direct relationship between the KAT3 and the KPA3.
You might want to check the K3S assembly manual and turn to the parts 
after the 5 watt TX Gain calibration has been done and proceed from 
there.  I say that only so you have a sensible guide to completing your 
assembly with the KPA3 and KAT3.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/17/2016 4:12 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the
100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp
first.

Yes?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gary Smith]

Fellows, it was just a simple question I asked here so as to not 
bother the techs at Elecraft with what may be an arcane question.

I have the ATU kit and the amp kit in my hands, I'm not sending them 
back. Why I want an ATU has nothing to do with my question.

FWIW, I do have resonant antennas; all of them from 160 through 10 
are resonant. I sometimes take the radio out where I use a random 
wire. It's difficult to make a random wire resonant when I'm on a 
trip.

When you buy an assembled K3S, you do not get an assembly manual with 
it. I guess I could download the Pdf but do I want to do things in 
the same order as if I were assembling a K3s kit or when adding two 
separate but related modules to an assembled K3? I don't know.

All I asked was; in an already assembled K3s/10, which of the two 
should I install first. A couple of replies have said I should 
install the ATU first. That's what I'll do.

Thanks to all that replied.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
> first. 
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Thanks & 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[James Bennett]

"Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.”

Well, not everyone has the luxury of enough real estate for a bunch of resonant 
antennas. When one wants to be able to operate multiple HF bands, a multi-band 
antenna (like a doublet), with tuner, works quite well. I, for one, would love 
to have several towers with resonant yagis, quads, etc. But living on a 
standard city lot with CCR/HOA restrictions pretty much sets a limit on what 
sort of antenna(s) can be erected. I use an 88 foot long doublet (skinny wire, 
stealthily hung in the trees) fed with home brew 600 ohm ladder line. It works 
great and I can operate on 60 - 6 meters with it. Without a tuner, that would 
not be possible.

JIm / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft]

Not even 10 post yet, and the subject has already morphed into something 
else.The OP asked which of the two should he install first.How did this become 
X length of coax, or having a Resonant antenna?OR! Being Lazy?
73 Milverton / W9MMS. 
 


  From: Michael Walker <va...@portcredit.net>
 To: "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg
   
As a wise ham told me.  What do you need a tuner for?

Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Gerald Manthey <kc6...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why is 10' to 15' of coax  what you would want if using a tuner in the
> shack? I know about loses in really long runs, but why 10 to 15 feet?
> Thanks asking to learn not criticizing.
> Gerald
>
> > On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch <rodenkirch_...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.
> >
> > If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll
> need
> > some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to
> coax:
> >
> >  - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
> > efficient spot) then save your
> >    money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place
> it
> > at the point where the open
> >    wire line transitions to coaxial feed.
> >  - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial
> run
> > short, the internal auto tuner
> >    would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.
> >
> > If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length
> longer
> > than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place
> an
> > LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
> > coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day.
> >
> > If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be
> 'da
> > way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the
> antenna
> > feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.
> >
> > 72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
> > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

They're independent. Since the KAT3 tuner is just a plug-in, I'd suggest
installing it and the KPA3 shield first (do everything in the KPA3
instructions down to "Installing the KPAIO3A Interface Module"), since the
both require more mechanical disassembly. Put everything back except for the
K3 top cover and check out the KAT3 at 10 watts (don't forget to enable the
KAT3 as described on the last page of the installation instructions!). 

Then it's a matter of replacing the blank panel on the K3 with the fans and
then plugging in the KIO3A and KPA3 100 watt amp modules and testing and
enabling them. 

73 Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:12 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 100W
amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp first. 

Yes?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Michael Walker]

As a wise ham told me.  What do you need a tuner for?

Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Gerald Manthey  wrote:

> Why is 10' to 15' of coax  what you would want if using a tuner in the
> shack? I know about loses in really long runs, but why 10 to 15 feet?
> Thanks asking to learn not criticizing.
> Gerald
>
> > On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch 
> wrote:
> >
> > Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.
> >
> > If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll
> need
> > some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to
> coax:
> >
> >   - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
> > efficient spot) then save your
> > money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place
> it
> > at the point where the open
> > wire line transitions to coaxial feed.
> >   - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial
> run
> > short, the internal auto tuner
> > would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.
> >
> > If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length
> longer
> > than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place
> an
> > LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
> > coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day.
> >
> > If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be
> 'da
> > way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the
> antenna
> > feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.
> >
> > 72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
> > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gerald Manthey]

Why is 10' to 15' of coax  what you would want if using a tuner in the shack? I 
know about loses in really long runs, but why 10 to 15 feet? 
Thanks asking to learn not criticizing. 
Gerald 

> On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch  wrote:
> 
> Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.
> 
> If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll need
> some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to coax:
> 
>   - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
> efficient spot) then save your 
> money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place it
> at the point where the open 
> wire line transitions to coaxial feed. 
>   - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial run
> short, the internal auto tuner
> would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.
> 
> If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length longer
> than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place an
> LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
> coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day. 
> 
> If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be 'da
> way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the antenna
> feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.
> 
> 72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Fred Jensen]

I don't think that's what he asked.

If the K3S is at all like the K3, the the assembly manual will tell you. 
 I remember there is some calibration stuff to do before adding either 
the ATU or PA, and it tells you which to do first.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 2/17/2016 1:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch wrote:

Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.

If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll need
some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to coax:

- if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
efficient spot) then save your
  money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place it
at the point where the open
  wire line transitions to coaxial feed.
- if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial run
short, the internal auto tuner
  would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.

If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length longer
than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place an
LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day.

If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be 'da
way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the antenna
feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.

72 de Jim R. K9JWV


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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Jim Rodenkirch]

Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.

If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll need
some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to coax:

   - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
efficient spot) then save your 
 money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place it
at the point where the open 
 wire line transitions to coaxial feed. 
   - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial run
short, the internal auto tuner
 would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.

If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length longer
than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place an
LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day. 

If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be 'da
way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the antenna
feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.

72 de Jim R. K9JWV



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Clay Autery]

KAT3A ATU first...  There are cals and such to do BEFORE the PA is
installed.  In my Assembly manual, the PA went in last before the final
button-up.

READ the Assembly Manual to confirm...  Once the PA is in, (with its
shield), the chassi gets tight around the ATU board areas where you
replace the KANT3A with the KAT3A board.

__
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(318) 518-1389

On 2/17/2016 3:12 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
> first. 
>
> Yes?
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Bill Conkling]

Check the K3S assembly manual.  If I remember correctly from my Original K3 
assembly, the manual paused to instruct you when it was time to install various 
options to allow you to install or skip steps if yu were not installing that 
option.



> On Feb 17, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
> first. 
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Thanks & 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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[Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gary Smith]

Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
first. 

Yes?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp power per $$ spreadsheet download

[Vic Rosenthal]

To really do this right, you would need to add factors for things like IMD, 
QSK, fan noise, duty cycle, ease of tuning, etc. Cost per watt is only one 
factor. Of course everyone would have their own personal concerns, so you could 
add a place in the spreadsheet where the user could weight the various factors 
appropriately. A CW operator doesn't care about IMD, a digital guy is very 
interested in duty cycle, a DXer wants instant turn-on and tuneup, etc.

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO 

 On Apr 27, 2015, at 12:34 AM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote:
 
 On Sat,4/25/2015 7:35 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
 Good job, Nick.  I didn't realize my AL-811H was so cost effective. Sure is 
 a royal PITA to use, though. I'll give it away to someone local who will use 
 it -- no way I will deal with shipping the beast.
 
 I modified the spreadsheet a bit and re-sorted it. First, since we here in 
 the US are permitted only 1,500W, I set max power for those amps with higher 
 power ratings to that value. Second, just as Nick has included his used Alpha 
 99, I added my used Ten Tec Titan 425s.
 
 k9yc.com/PwrAmpdB.png
 
 There are many features and properties of power amps that go far beyond pure 
 dB per dollar.  some examples:
 
 The ACOM 1010 is a reasonably compact competitor to the KPA500, but it 
 doesn't cover 6M. I bought one used from K6SRZ (to have another amp for CQP), 
 who bought a KPA500 just to get 6M. Also, my occupied bandwidth tests show 
 that the KPA500 is a bit cleaner than that ACOM 1010. And the 1010 is a 
 single-voltage amp. It must be rewired to change it. The KPA500 can be 
 switched by removing, rotating, and reinserting the fuse block built into the 
 power plug.
 
 The ACOM 1000 does cover 6M. Both it and the 1010 have manual antenna tuners 
 built in. Some of these amplifiers have built-in tuners, some of those tuners 
 are automatic or have memories. Some of these amps are much better built than 
 others. My Ten Tec Titans use high quality vacuum relays with logic to 
 prevent hot-switching, as do the Alphas. The Ameritron amps I've seen use 
 much cheaper open-frame relays, so their switching is much slower.
 
 My Titans are quite clean -- P3 measurements of both the KPA500 and the Titan 
 look exactly like the K3 at the drive level required for rated power. But the 
 Titans, like the lower cost ACOMs, are manual everything.
 
 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp power per $$ spreadsheet download

[Bill]

Downloaded where?


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[Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Ken Miller]

All,

Have updated the firmware and put in the keying mods on my K2.  Also had
a friend with some great test equipment verify that the new keyinh
waveform is as it should be to prevent key clicks when using an amp.

Now the dilemma. Torn between the K2/100 amp, and maybe a KAT100 in a
separate EC2 case or a KXPA100.

I'd like to hear comments from those that have used the KXP100 with or
without the tuner to amplify a K2.

Are there any special considerations that need to be taken into account
when using the KXPA100?

How easy is it to add the tuner later to the KXPA100?

Thanks in advance for any/all comments.

73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW   K2 # 455




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Re: [Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Matt VK2RQ]

I use the KXPA100+KXAT100 built in tuner with my K2, and it works great. Of 
course, the integration isn't quite as tight as it is with the KPA100+KAT100. 
For example, when I change bands, I need to hit the dit paddle to give the 
amp/tuner a squirt of RF and let it know my new QRG. But the tuner immediately 
selects the right antenna and recalls the last tuning solution for that band 
segment. I also set the power knob to 3W when doing a tuning cycle, and then 
maybe crank it up to 5W if I want a full 100W out of the amp.

In order to make the amp work the the K2, you need a key out line. The basic K2 
doesn't have this, but it is easy to add one. Here is what I did, based on an 
article from the Elecraft website:
http://www.mwrs.org.au/2014/04/20/elecraft-k2-amplifier-keying-circuit/

The benefit of using KXPA100 solution is that I can leave it at home if I want 
to take my K2+built in QRP ATU out into the field, or I can bring it along. I 
can also use the KXPA100 with my KX3, in which case it is a fully integrated 
solution. The KXPA100 is completely silent, with no fans, and relays only used 
for antenna selection/tuning/protection, whereas I understand the KPA100 has 
some noisy fans when it warms up.

Whichever way you go, the K2 is a lot of fun :-)

73,
Matt VK2RQ

 On 16 Nov 2014, at 6:33 am, Ken Miller k6...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 All,
 
 Have updated the firmware and put in the keying mods on my K2.  Also had
 a friend with some great test equipment verify that the new keyinh
 waveform is as it should be to prevent key clicks when using an amp.
 
 Now the dilemma. Torn between the K2/100 amp, and maybe a KAT100 in a
 separate EC2 case or a KXPA100.
 
 I'd like to hear comments from those that have used the KXP100 with or
 without the tuner to amplify a K2.
 
 Are there any special considerations that need to be taken into account
 when using the KXPA100?
 
 How easy is it to add the tuner later to the KXPA100?
 
 Thanks in advance for any/all comments.
 
 73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW   K2 # 455
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Matt VK2RQ]

One other thing I forgot to mention, with KPA100, you get a KIO2 RS232 CAT 
interface for free. I had to pay extra to add one into my QRP K2. Of course 
if you are swapping the top of your K2 to change between QRP and QRO modes, 
then you might want a KIO2 for the QRP lid anyway. Of course, you can run a K2 
fitted with a KPA100  in QRP mode by powering it off the coaxial power 
connected instead of the Anderson power pole input, but then you won't have a 
KAT2 ATU, and will need something external.

Anyway, you can see we are spoiled for choices :-)

73,
Matt VK2RQ

 On 16 Nov 2014, at 7:09 am, Matt VK2RQ matt.vk...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I use the KXPA100+KXAT100 built in tuner with my K2, and it works great. Of 
 course, the integration isn't quite as tight as it is with the KPA100+KAT100. 
 For example, when I change bands, I need to hit the dit paddle to give the 
 amp/tuner a squirt of RF and let it know my new QRG. But the tuner 
 immediately selects the right antenna and recalls the last tuning solution 
 for that band segment. I also set the power knob to 3W when doing a tuning 
 cycle, and then maybe crank it up to 5W if I want a full 100W out of the amp.
 
 In order to make the amp work the the K2, you need a key out line. The basic 
 K2 doesn't have this, but it is easy to add one. Here is what I did, based on 
 an article from the Elecraft website:
 http://www.mwrs.org.au/2014/04/20/elecraft-k2-amplifier-keying-circuit/
 
 The benefit of using KXPA100 solution is that I can leave it at home if I 
 want to take my K2+built in QRP ATU out into the field, or I can bring it 
 along. I can also use the KXPA100 with my KX3, in which case it is a fully 
 integrated solution. The KXPA100 is completely silent, with no fans, and 
 relays only used for antenna selection/tuning/protection, whereas I 
 understand the KPA100 has some noisy fans when it warms up.
 
 Whichever way you go, the K2 is a lot of fun :-)
 
 73,
 Matt VK2RQ
 
 On 16 Nov 2014, at 6:33 am, Ken Miller k6...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 All,
 
 Have updated the firmware and put in the keying mods on my K2.  Also had
 a friend with some great test equipment verify that the new keyinh
 waveform is as it should be to prevent key clicks when using an amp.
 
 Now the dilemma. Torn between the K2/100 amp, and maybe a KAT100 in a
 separate EC2 case or a KXPA100.
 
 I'd like to hear comments from those that have used the KXP100 with or
 without the tuner to amplify a K2.
 
 Are there any special considerations that need to be taken into account
 when using the KXPA100?
 
 How easy is it to add the tuner later to the KXPA100?
 
 Thanks in advance for any/all comments.
 
 73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW   K2 # 455
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Kevin Stover]

KPA100 wins hands down.
The KXPA100 won't integrate with the K2 nearly as well as the KPA100 
which was designed for the K2.
There's nothing the KXP100 can do for the K2 that the KPA100 can't 
dobetter.


--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Phil Wheeler]

Except the KXPA100 will work with the KX3 and other rigs, which can be a big 
plus. 

Phil - Sent from my iPad

 On Nov 15, 2014, at 15:46, Kevin Stover kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net wrote:
 
 KPA100 wins hands down.
 The KXPA100 won't integrate with the K2 nearly as well as the KPA100 which 
 was designed for the K2.
 There's nothing the KXP100 can do for the K2 that the KPA100 can't 
 dobetter.
 
 -- 
 R. Kevin Stover
 AC0H
 ARRL
 FISTS #11993
 SKCC #215
 NAQCC #3441
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Don Wilhelm]

Ken,

I have not used my KXPA100 and KXAT100 with my K2, but it can be done if 
you add a keying output circuit to your K2.


The KXPA100 (and KXAT100) take a dit or two to 'sync up' with the K2, 
but other than that it works quite nicely.


OTOH, the KPA100 and KAT100 follow the K2 band changes automatically.  
But if you are mounting the KPA100 and KAT100-2 in an external EC2 
enclosure, you will need the KIO2 (or a special cable to pipe the 
required internal signals to the EC2 enclosure if you do not wish to 
have a computer control connection).  You do not need the amp keying 
circuit with the KPA100.


So those are the requirements for either setup, take your pick.  The 
price of the KPA100, KAT100-2 and EC2 enclosure is about 3/4 the cost of 
the KXPA100 and KXAT100 kits - no soldering with the latter.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/15/2014 2:33 PM, Ken Miller wrote:

All,

Have updated the firmware and put in the keying mods on my K2.  Also had
a friend with some great test equipment verify that the new keyinh
waveform is as it should be to prevent key clicks when using an amp.

Now the dilemma. Torn between the K2/100 amp, and maybe a KAT100 in a
separate EC2 case or a KXPA100.

I'd like to hear comments from those that have used the KXP100 with or
without the tuner to amplify a K2.

Are there any special considerations that need to be taken into account
when using the KXPA100?

How easy is it to add the tuner later to the KXPA100?

Thanks in advance for any/all comments.

73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW   K2 # 455




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Re: [Elecraft] Amp for a K2

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

I have a KPA100 and KAT100 in an EC2 to go behind my K2/10 + battery when I
am using it in the shack. It is absolutely seamless.

There are some danger, danger issues with the cabling, like do not use a
normal RS232 cord from it to a PC...destructions. Only the three basic
RS232 leads are for computer. The rest of the pins are used to talk to the
KPA100 and KAT100. The DB9 connection on the back of the K2 is proprietary,
period. I have a split cable that breaks up into a regular three wire RS232
From K2 to the computer, and another cable from K2 to the KPA/KAT100.

You can build it or occasionally an already built KPA/KAT100/EC2 will show
up for sale, or a WTB posting can stir up one gone surplus. The latter is
how I got mine, third hand, originally built by one of the first to ever
make one.

I don't have anything else like my K2/10/Battery. In simply awful 160/80m
situations very close to 50 kW BC stations, where the analyzers just give
up, I can use the portable battery K2 and tune something by SWR. Can
directly test an antenna and listen to received signals. I'll be keeping
mine. The only conversion I might try is to a lithium ion battery pack with
smart charger and solar panel controller to replace the stock SLA.

So the back-end PA/tuner allows me to use the K2/10 in the station with a
very simple hookup to the EC2, and the EC2 retains all the fixed station
hookups. The K2 with the back-end is a good 2nd radio in a contest. And
plenty good enough for casual if the K3 goes on a trip.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Kevin Stover kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net
wrote:

 KPA100 wins hands down.
 The KXPA100 won't integrate with the K2 nearly as well as the KPA100 which
 was designed for the K2.
 There's nothing the KXP100 can do for the K2 that the KPA100 can't
 dobetter.

 --
 R. Kevin Stover
 AC0H
 ARRL
 FISTS #11993
 SKCC #215
 NAQCC #3441

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[Elecraft] Amp/tuner

[edward kacura]

Well I for one am disappointed about the Oct delivery dates, I was looking 
forward to getting my amp this next week. Good things come to those who wait my 
mother always told me...but please hurry Wayne and Eric !!
 
Drinking the Kool-Aide came from the deaths of almost 900 people who were 
followers of Jim Jones, he was a paranoid religious fanatic who convinced his 
follower's to drink the poisoned Kool-Aide and meet their maker at their 
compound in Guyana in the later 70's ! And they all followed him to their 
deaths !
 
I like Wayne and Eric's better thank you.
 
73 de Ed
N7EDK 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp/tuner

[George Danner]

Ed,
We all who are waiting for the KXPA100  KXAT100 might be a bit 
disappointed; but I trust that we got the best SWAG (Scientific Wild A** 
Guess) that was available at the time.
We push Elecraft for a date then complain if it is wrong! The further out 
the estimate the wronger it is going to be!
Having purchased a significant amount of VaporWare that never got delivered 
(non-Ham equipment), Elecraft is a breath of fresh air. They do eventually 
deliver, then they fix any problems found no mater how insignificant and no 
mater how few users it actually affects. Then they enhance the product with 
features not in the original design.
Not one of us has ever had to pay for the firmware updates and many of the 
hardware fixes have been supplied free or at a very low cost. I can remember 
paying thousands of dollars/year for software update subscriptions and 90% 
of those updates were to fix original bugs or bugs developed fixing original 
bugs!

Be thankful for Elecraft!

73
George
AI4VZ


-Original Message- 
From: edward kacura

Well I for one am disappointed about the Oct delivery dates, I was looking 
forward to getting my amp this next week. Good things come to those who wait 
my mother always told me...but please hurry Wayne and Eric !!

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[Elecraft] Amp

[emetcalf]

Need 500 used 500 watt amp. 
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[Elecraft] Amp

[emetcalf]

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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[Igor Sokolov]

I do not want bigger then K3 size of K4 based on the same architecture but 
K4 of the size of K3 based on SDR architecture would be very interesting.
I would strongly consider KPA 1500 if it would be capable of everything that 
Expert 2K-FA can already do plus a bit extra. That is provided the price of 
such an amp is about the same as that of Expert 2K-FA.
Alternatively I would be ready to purchase from Elecraft something like 
Expert 1K-FA (1 Kw amp) that would be similar in features and price but 
would have switching power supply and weight around 10 Kg. This would be 
ideal for DXpeditions.

73, Igor UA9CDC

- Original Message - 
From: Adrian vk4...@bigpond.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] amp


 - Original Message - 
 From: Kevin kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net

 There's no good reason for Elecraft to invest the time and money into
 manufacturing a 1-1.5K Watt amp.
 The market is very small and the competition is fierce, not only from
 other SS amp manufacturer's but from those that still sell tube type
 amps.

 You must remember you are talking about loyal Elecraft fans who will
 sacrifice whatever it takes to keep the K-Line pure.

 You can't compete on price with the likes of an Ameritron, QRO,
 Commander (whenever they decide to resurface) and even Alpha.

 That leaves features and the more features you add, like stupid proofing
 a SS amp, and the inevitable built-in match 1500W to my rain gutters
 tuner, you've lost the price war.

 If you buy an Ameritron AL-1500 with the 8877 Eimac tube, a contest
 proven amp with thousands sold and thousands of hours, you can afford to
 re-tube it twice and still not hit the magic $6K mark.

 Solid state amps have come a long way but they have a real long way to
 go before matching the reliability and price point of a tube amp.

 I'd love Elecraft to prove me wrong but think they'd be better served by
 focusing their efforts on the K4. The barbarians are at the gate
 performance wise and I'd really like to shove a stick in some FTDX-5000
 owners eyes.

 No keep the K3 updated and improved, it is a great alrounder that doesnt
 break the back or bank balance.
 All K3 owners feel they have the lastest at all times due to Elecrafts
 marvellous hardware and firmware updates available to all.

 If a 6k 1.5kw K1500 is released, there will a cue waiting as per usual 
 with
 Elecraft releases. Present k3 owners, I think would rather see a KPA1500
 for
 their k3, rather than a K4, which will have what else besides size 
 perhaps?
 The K-line is modelled on the size of the K3 so K4 looks very unlikely to
 me.

 Adrian ... vk4tux


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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[hawley, charles j jr]

They are doing pretty well power wise for a company I once thought was into 
building QRP kits.

Chuck, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Scott Manthe [scott.man...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 9:32 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] amp

Wayne and Eric have been pretty honest in the past as to why they don't
currently offer a legal-limit amp, water or air-cooled: price point. The
KPA-1500 would've had to sell for about $6K in kit form, and apparently,
the Elecraft team thought that was too much. Having spent too much time
drooling on it at Dayton, it would've been nice to see it brought to
market, but at that price point, I can understand why Wayne and Eric
decided against it.

73,
Scott, N9AA


On 4/26/12 10:11 PM, Dennis Watkins wrote:
 I wonder why Elecraft doesn't make a water cooled amp, 1500 watts worth.
 No noise..

 Dennis  W7JX
 K3 # 3901

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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Scott,

People are buying foreign made solid state legal limit amps like the Tokyo
Hy-Power HL2.5FX and SPE EXPERT 2K-FA at $6000 plus. I hope the success of
the KPA500 leads Elecraft to reconsider either a 1KW or 1.5KW amp.

73,
Mike K2MK


Scott Manthe-2 wrote
 
 Wayne and Eric have been pretty honest in the past as to why they don't 
 currently offer a legal-limit amp, water or air-cooled: price point. The 
 KPA-1500 would've had to sell for about $6K in kit form, and apparently, 
 the Elecraft team thought that was too much. Having spent too much time 
 drooling on it at Dayton, it would've been nice to see it brought to 
 market, but at that price point, I can understand why Wayne and Eric 
 decided against it.
 
 73,
 Scott, N9AA
 


--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/amp-tp7504795p7507447.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[Kevin]

Hi MIke,

There's no good reason for Elecraft to invest the time and money into 
manufacturing a 1-1.5K Watt amp.
The market is very small and the competition is fierce, not only from 
other SS amp manufacturer's but from those that still sell tube type amps.

You can't compete on price with the likes of an Ameritron, QRO, 
Commander (whenever they decide to resurface) and even Alpha.

That leaves features and the more features you add, like stupid proofing 
a SS amp, and the inevitable built-in match 1500W to my rain gutters 
tuner, you've lost the price war.

If you buy an Ameritron AL-1500 with the 8877 Eimac tube, a contest 
proven amp with thousands sold and thousands of hours, you can afford to 
re-tube it twice and still not hit the magic $6K mark.

Solid state amps have come a long way but they have a real long way to 
go before matching the reliability and price point of a tube amp.

I'd love Elecraft to prove me wrong but think they'd be better served by 
focusing their efforts on the K4. The barbarians are at the gate 
performance wise and I'd really like to shove a stick in some FTDX-5000 
owners eyes.


On 04/27/2012 04:10 PM, Mike K2MK wrote:
 Hi Scott,

 People are buying foreign made solid state legal limit amps like the Tokyo
 Hy-Power HL2.5FX and SPE EXPERT 2K-FA at $6000 plus. I hope the success of
 the KPA500 leads Elecraft to reconsider either a 1KW or 1.5KW amp.

 73,
 Mike K2MK


-- 
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H

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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[Scott Manthe]

I think that the K3+P3+KPA500= the mythical K4

Elecraft probably wouldn't have invested a bunch of money in building a 
line of gear around the K3 only to introduce something else. But, I 
could be wrong. Having acquired the K Line, I'm not much interested in 
a K4. I'm also not much interested in shoving a stick into anyone's 
eyes because of their choice of gear. The FT-5000 series are great 
radios- they're great performers, look nice and are expensive. I bought 
the K3 because for me, the entire K Line, including a well configured 
used K3, the KPA500 kit and a used P3 only cost about $200 more than a 
base FT-5000. I don't really worry about anything that FT-5000 owners 
might have to say.

73,
Scott, N9AA


On 4/27/12 7:50 PM, Kevin wrote:
 I'd love Elecraft to prove me wrong but think they'd be better served by
 focusing their efforts on the K4. The barbarians are at the gate
 performance wise and I'd really like to shove a stick in some FTDX-5000
 owners eyes.

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[Elecraft] amp

[Adrian]

 - Original Message - 
 From: Kevin kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net

 There's no good reason for Elecraft to invest the time and money into
 manufacturing a 1-1.5K Watt amp.
 The market is very small and the competition is fierce, not only from
 other SS amp manufacturer's but from those that still sell tube type 
 amps.

 You must remember you are talking about loyal Elecraft fans who will
 sacrifice whatever it takes to keep the K-Line pure.

 You can't compete on price with the likes of an Ameritron, QRO,
 Commander (whenever they decide to resurface) and even Alpha.

 That leaves features and the more features you add, like stupid proofing
 a SS amp, and the inevitable built-in match 1500W to my rain gutters
 tuner, you've lost the price war.

 If you buy an Ameritron AL-1500 with the 8877 Eimac tube, a contest
 proven amp with thousands sold and thousands of hours, you can afford to
 re-tube it twice and still not hit the magic $6K mark.

 Solid state amps have come a long way but they have a real long way to
 go before matching the reliability and price point of a tube amp.

 I'd love Elecraft to prove me wrong but think they'd be better served by
 focusing their efforts on the K4. The barbarians are at the gate
 performance wise and I'd really like to shove a stick in some FTDX-5000
 owners eyes.

 No keep the K3 updated and improved, it is a great alrounder that doesnt
break the back or bank balance.
All K3 owners feel they have the lastest at all times due to Elecrafts
 marvellous hardware and firmware updates available to all.

 If a 6k 1.5kw K1500 is released, there will a cue waiting as per usual with
 Elecraft releases. Present k3 owners, I think would rather see a KPA1500 
for
 their k3, rather than a K4, which will have what else besides size perhaps?
 The K-line is modelled on the size of the K3 so K4 looks very unlikely to
 me.

 Adrian ... vk4tux
 

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[Elecraft] amp

[Dennis Watkins]

I wonder why Elecraft doesn't make a water cooled amp, 1500 watts worth. 
No noise..

Dennis  W7JX
K3 # 3901
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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[Ken G Kopp]

Hi Dennis,

Having done the radiator work on the first ETO (pre-Alpha) water-cooled
amplifier, I can tell you there are signifigant problems involved.

'Tain't worth it. (:-)

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Dennis Watkins
dennis.watki...@gmail.com wrote:
 I wonder why Elecraft doesn't make a water cooled amp, 1500 watts worth.
 No noise..

 Dennis  W7JX
 K3 # 3901
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Re: [Elecraft] amp

[Scott Manthe]

Wayne and Eric have been pretty honest in the past as to why they don't 
currently offer a legal-limit amp, water or air-cooled: price point. The 
KPA-1500 would've had to sell for about $6K in kit form, and apparently, 
the Elecraft team thought that was too much. Having spent too much time 
drooling on it at Dayton, it would've been nice to see it brought to 
market, but at that price point, I can understand why Wayne and Eric 
decided against it.

73,
Scott, N9AA


On 4/26/12 10:11 PM, Dennis Watkins wrote:
 I wonder why Elecraft doesn't make a water cooled amp, 1500 watts worth.
 No noise..

 Dennis  W7JX
 K3 # 3901

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[Elecraft] Amp

[Martin]

I do ninety percent listing ten talking, these products Elecraft have produced 
are outstanding pieces of equipment. Well thought out,why would you want to 
mess around with perfection. Yours in the hobby N1KGP 73

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] Amp specs

[John Harper]

In looking at several HF amps, I notice that PEP and CW are usually of 
different levels for a given amp.

For example, THP's HL-1.2 is rated at 750w PEP, 600w CW. Granted, a receiving 
station would not notice any difference in a 0.9 dB increase of power on any 
mode but I'm wondering how the KPA500 compares - is the 500w rating PEP or CW?

John AE5X
Radio: http://www.ae5x.com/blog

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp specs

[Robert Friess]

The KPA500 is rated for 500W PEP or CW.

Bob, N6CM

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:50 AM, John Harper j...@ae5x.com wrote:

 In looking at several HF amps, I notice that PEP and CW are usually of
 different levels for a given amp.

 For example, THP's HL-1.2 is rated at 750w PEP, 600w CW. Granted, a
 receiving station would not notice any difference in a 0.9 dB increase of
 power on any mode but I'm wondering how the KPA500 compares - is the 500w
 rating PEP or CW?

 John AE5X
 Radio: http://www.ae5x.com/blog

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp specs

[riese-k3djc]

could it be that 750 watts PEP is the same as 600 watts key down

H

Bob K3DJC 
On Thu, 26 May 2011 06:50:48 -0500 John Harper j...@ae5x.com writes:
 In looking at several HF amps, I notice that PEP and CW are usually 
 of different levels for a given amp.
 
 For example, THP's HL-1.2 is rated at 750w PEP, 600w CW. Granted, a 
 receiving station would not notice any difference in a 0.9 dB 
 increase of power on any mode but I'm wondering how the KPA500 
 compares - is the 500w rating PEP or CW?
 
 John AE5X
 Radio: http://www.ae5x.com/blog
 
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1 ridiculously huge coupon a day. Get 50-90% off your city#39;s best!
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp specs

[w5ov]

Well, no.

THP's specs are all confusing because they are very cautious to not
recommend pushing the amplifiers to their limits. They hope that the users
will not push them to the highest level output and thereby minimize the
likelihood of over-driving etc. which if not controlled can lead to
failures. Solid state amps are much more fragile from this perspective
than tube amps.

That said, the 1.2KFX is fully capable of 750w key down output. On CW,
PEP=AVG.

73,

Bob W5OV

 could it be that 750 watts PEP is the same as 600 watts key down

 H

 Bob K3DJC
 On Thu, 26 May 2011 06:50:48 -0500 John Harper j...@ae5x.com writes:
 In looking at several HF amps, I notice that PEP and CW are usually
 of different levels for a given amp.

 For example, THP's HL-1.2 is rated at 750w PEP, 600w CW. Granted, a
 receiving station would not notice any difference in a 0.9 dB
 increase of power on any mode but I'm wondering how the KPA500
 compares - is the 500w rating PEP or CW?

 John AE5X
 Radio: http://www.ae5x.com/blog

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp specs

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

  could it be that 750 watts PEP is the same as 600 watts key down

After spending a lot of time looking at solid state amplifier
design the most likely reason for a 750 W PEP/600 W CW specification
is either cooling or power supply limitations.

In practice, if the power supply and cooling can support it, the
CW rating could actually be 1 dB or so higher than the PEP rating
simply since increased IMD is not a concern for CW/RTTY (single
tone applications).  One would normally set the PEP rating below
the 1 dB compression point for maximum linearity (e.g. AB1 in tube
parlance) while setting the CW rating somewhat higher (e.g., class
B or even class C in the tube world).

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 5/26/2011 11:07 AM, riese-k3...@juno.com wrote:
 could it be that 750 watts PEP is the same as 600 watts key down

 H

 Bob K3DJC
 On Thu, 26 May 2011 06:50:48 -0500 John Harperj...@ae5x.com  writes:
 In looking at several HF amps, I notice that PEP and CW are usually
 of different levels for a given amp.

 For example, THP's HL-1.2 is rated at 750w PEP, 600w CW. Granted, a
 receiving station would not notice any difference in a 0.9 dB
 increase of power on any mode but I'm wondering how the KPA500
 compares - is the 500w rating PEP or CW?

 John AE5X
 Radio: http://www.ae5x.com/blog

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp specs

[Grant Youngman]

While it may be capable of hitting 750 watts key down ( and more)  isn't it 
likely that CW is derated due to duty cycle issues?  Probably power supply.   
Even if THP is conservative in ratings, there's probably a rational reason 
behind the spec as stated. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2011, at 10:22 AM, w...@w5ov.com wrote:

 Well, no.
 
 THP's specs are all confusing because they are very cautious to not
 .
 
 That said, the 1.2KFX is fully capable of 750w key down output. On CW,
 PEP=AVG.
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp specs

[n5ge]

In addition, according to the user's manual, the key down time in CW at max
power is ten minutes.  I wouldn't want to do that to any of my VHF or UHF
bricks, so it seems to me it's a pretty rugged amp.

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE


On Thu, 26 May 2011 08:09:25 -0700, Robert Friess rfri...@usa.net wrote:

The KPA500 is rated for 500W PEP or CW.

Bob, N6CM

[snip]

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Re: [Elecraft] Amp connection - K3 and ACOM 1000

[Richard Squire - HB9ANM]

Jens, you are right: K3 + ACOM 1000 = excellent combination.

However, I highly recommend to anyone using a tetrode amp with a swamped
(i.e. untuned) input inserting of a lowpass filter BETWEEN the TX and the
amp. See for instance:

www.kk5dr.com/swampednetworks.htm

(inspite of the title of the article, problems can even occur with a very
well designed amp like the ACOM 1000)

or google swamped input+filter for further info.

VHF oscillations in the PA may damage the TX - ask a friend of mine who had
to repair his FT1000!

Better to be on the safe side...

73



-
Richard - HB9ANM
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp connection - K3 and ACOM 1000

[Mike]

What happens to 6M then?

73, Mike NF4L

Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote:
 Jens, you are right: K3 + ACOM 1000 = excellent combination.

 However, I highly recommend to anyone using a tetrode amp with a swamped
 (i.e. untuned) input inserting of a lowpass filter BETWEEN the TX and the
 amp. See for instance:

 www.kk5dr.com/swampednetworks.htm

 (inspite of the title of the article, problems can even occur with a very
 well designed amp like the ACOM 1000)

 or google swamped input+filter for further info.

 VHF oscillations in the PA may damage the TX - ask a friend of mine who had
 to repair his FT1000!

 Better to be on the safe side...

 73



 -
 Richard - HB9ANM
   


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Re: [Elecraft] Amp connection - K3 and ACOM 1000

[Richard Squire - HB9ANM]

Mike, I am using a old Drake filter which works up to 52 MHz...
Unnecessary here since we are only allowed to use 100 W on 6 m anyway!
But if you can find one for that range, even - like mine - with reduced
ratings on 50 MHz, it will certainly fit your needs since you won't drive
your amp at more than some 60 Watts.

-
Richard - HB9ANM
-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp connection - K3 and ACOM 1000

[Richard Squire - HB9ANM]

Sorry, didn't mean sending this to the reflector - here's my answer:

MI am using a old Drake filter which works up to 52 MHz...
Unnecessary here since we are only allowed to use 100 W on 6 m anyway!
But if you can find one for that range, even - like mine - with reduced 
ratings on 50 MHz, it will certainly fit your needs since you won't 
drive your amp at more than some 60 Watts.


Mike-14 [via Elecraft] schrieb:
 What happens to 6M then?

 73, Mike NF4L

 Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote:

  Jens, you are right: K3 + ACOM 1000 = excellent combination.
 
  However, I highly recommend to anyone using a tetrode amp with a 
 swamped
  (i.e. untuned) input inserting of a lowpass filter BETWEEN the TX 
 and the
  amp. See for instance:
 
  www.kk5dr.com/swampednetworks.htm
 
  (inspite of the title of the article, problems can even occur with a 
 very
  well designed amp like the ACOM 1000)
 
  or google swamped input+filter for further info.
 
  VHF oscillations in the PA may damage the TX - ask a friend of mine 
 who had
  to repair his FT1000!
 
  Better to be on the safe side...
 
  73
 
 
 
  -
  Richard - HB9ANM
   


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Re: [Elecraft] Amp connection - K3 and ACOM 1000

[Tom W8JI]

The theory in that link is pretty far-fetched. The screen is an excellent 
shield for RF between the anode and grid. If the screen wasn't a nearly 
perfect RF shield, we would never be able to use the tetrode in a grid 
driven amp.

It's silly to think the screen shield the control grid for months or years, 
and RF feedback through the screen to the control grid is so low the amp is 
stable, and then all of a sudden some mysterious oscillation makes the 
screen's shielding properties vanish for 2 seconds and allow dozens of watts 
back into a radio!

The most common fault that wipes things like radios out, and I have seen 
this dozens of times, are gassy tubes. If a tube arcs internally the grids 
take the brunt of the fault currents. This is a repeatable common problem 
that can be measured and diagnosed, and requires no magical screen 
shielding loss.

What actually happens is the tube gasses, peak anode voltage exceeds the 
breakdown, and the gas ionizes and causes the anode to fault to the screen 
and control grids. This is incredibly common in tetrodes.

In grounded grid amps, when something in the tube outgases or overheats and 
releases vapors, the arc is from the anode to the grounded grid. The cathode 
normally gets very little of the fault current, so the exciter is safe.

In a tetrode, especially a minimal parts design that uses and untuned 
resistor loaded grid, the fault current that would normally be shunted to 
ground blows right back through to the exciter.

I designed some plasma generators that used 4CX1500B's in the 70's or 80's 
that had this problem when the load went high SWR before plasma ignition. 
The peak anode voltage would go to 10 kV or more, and if the tube was not 
exceptionally healthy it would arc internally. The screen would take most of 
the fault, but it would pull up (watched it on a scope) to 3-4 kV. The 
control grid would pull up to 1-2 kV, and it would blow the transistors in 
the IPA stage.

Anything you throw in line between the PA and the exciter will help divert 
some of the pulse energy when the tube faults, but I sure would not bet my 
K3 on a low pass filter rated at high power for reliably stopping a dc 
pulse.

My suggestion for people not wanting to rely on snake oil and myths, and to 
actually protect the exciter, would be to use a monoband filter for each 
band that has low voltage caps, spark gaps, or voltage limiting gas tubes 
shunting the RF lines. The low pass should have a good dc path the chassis. 
A minimal inductance shunt coil with a resonating capacitor across it would 
be the best protection, and get inside the Acom and be sure it has an anode 
fault current limiting resistor of proper size (about 20-30 ohms) and design 
(high voltage type resistor) and be sure the screen has a solid high-current 
fault clamping circuit.

This is not a new problem with grid driven tetrodes, it is really pretty 
common. I'd guess I've seen this happen about 100-200 times in the past 30 
years, including the fits I had with the 4CX1500B plasma generator I 
designed.

The liability of blowing up radios from common anode-to-grid faults is one 
of the reasons I never built a grid driven amp with an external driver 
stage. By the time the grid and screen are done right to protect the radio, 
the amp would cost more than a grounded grid amp.

73 Tom

 Jens, you are right: K3 + ACOM 1000 = excellent combination.

 However, I highly recommend to anyone using a tetrode amp with a swamped
 (i.e. untuned) input inserting of a lowpass filter BETWEEN the TX and the
 amp. See for instance:
 www.kk5dr.com/swampednetworks.htm

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[Elecraft] Amp connection

[Mike]

My new Acom 1000 is due in today. Is there anything I need to do special 
to hook it up to the K3?

73, Mike NF4L

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