Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
J F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Lately, I've noticed a lot of folks who send quite slow and I speculate these are first time contesters. I figure they want to learn the game, but may get frustrated if blown out of the water. The last few big contests I picked up some nice multipliers from guys who were sending slow with pileups on them, not because I was the loudest, but because I sent at a rate they could copy... Hi Julius, Perhaps some of the people who keep the speed down could work at 40wpm, but are experienced in the effects of propagation on paths where multipliers might be lurking. A good example of this can be found on the 40m short path (0500 Z ish) from here to the West Coast. During the WPX there were many CA stations heard at good strength, those running at high speed were difficult if not impossible to copy because of the usual echo and auroral zone flutter which runs characters together, but those running at slow speed allowed for good copy. As you know I am not a Contester but enjoy dabbling :-) 73, Geoff GM4ESD ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
I think a heads-up contester could pick up more points by slowing down during those times when the QSO rate has dropped. Better to call one time at 12 wpm and work a station than to call 10 times at 30 wpm and work nobody. I've not heard this during a contest however. Seems most are only interested in collecting high-speed points and would prefer to continue calling CQ TEST at 30 wpm with no answer. Yea, I know speed changes are not always easy to do, but if it helps the final score, I bet folks would find a way. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Hi Julius, Perhaps some of the people who keep the speed down could work at 40wpm, but are experienced in the effects of propagation on paths where multipliers might be lurking. A good example of this can be found on the 40m short path (0500 Z ish) from here to the West Coast. During the WPX there were many CA stations heard at good strength, those running at high speed were difficult if not impossible to copy because of the usual echo and auroral zone flutter which runs characters together, but those running at slow speed allowed for good copy. The longer one plays in CW contests, particularly the majors, the easier it is to copy high speed code. Your observation is another example of a good reason to be flexible when it comes to speed. I just find it humorous when I'm doing SP to listen to some guys cranking HSC and repeating the exchange 5 or 6 times before either the QSO is made, or one or the other gives up in frustration. It's a judgment call fer sure. I guess winning to me includes not discouraging newbies or scaring away folks who may not be so anti-contest if someone takes a little more time with them. Maybe I can afford to do this as a LP or QRP operator, certainly contesting is stratified, and folks have different perspectives and objectives... I'm getting way too long winded on this Geoff! ;o) Cheers, Julius n2wn ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 That's exactly it. I worked one field day with a bunch of guys out in the Black Hills. Each one of them capable and comfortable at 40+ wpm. They always ran at 17-22wpm with the logic being there are a lot more guys/gals out there that can work that speed range copying a contest exchange than there are guys/gals who can do 40+. They finish top 10 in the country EVERY YEAR! I'd think the same logic would work in real contests as well. Unless the speed merchants actually like sending their exchanges 10 times to get one Q in the log. Darwin, Keith wrote: I think a heads-up contester could pick up more points by slowing down during those times when the QSO rate has dropped. Better to call one time at 12 wpm and work a station than to call 10 times at 30 wpm and work nobody. I've not heard this during a contest however. Seems most are only interested in collecting high-speed points and would prefer to continue calling CQ TEST at 30 wpm with no answer. Yea, I know speed changes are not always easy to do, but if it helps the final score, I bet folks would find a way. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - - -- R. Kevin Stover, ACØH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGXtGk11jxjloa2wsRAmtFAJ4sp3yigKY7nua5+QFpZJZWmUSZ1QCeOeKM uir69MR3U62a0XymPQxCrj0= =5A63 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Serious, skilled contesters play to win by maximizing rate when CQing. If they have so many responses that it becomes difficult to pick out calls, they QRQ to work them as quickly as possible. If they have too few responses, they QRS to attract more callers. Faster, louder callers get through sooner. If conditions like fading or echo make copy difficult at high speed, skilled ops slow down. If they are loud and fast, they win. There may be a few bulls in the china shop who persist at high speed despite indications that it's hurting their score. They lose. It's that simple. On the calling side, if you are weak and/or slow, you won't get through as quickly as those who are loud and fast. Be patient. Copy repetitive exchange items while you wait. Anticipate subsequent serial numbers. These techniques increase your ability to complete a QSO when you do get through, even at a higher speed than you can use for rag-chewing. If you aren't getting through, come back when the fast operator's rate declines. Most will QRS when they work a slow caller, at least after a repeat request. Winning ops want to work everyone they can. They just do it in the most rational sequence to maximize their own score. Did you know that a good radio makes it easier to copy at high speed? Ringing filters, mushy audio and invasive DSP reduce your effective code speed. That's why I love my K2 and why I look forward to the K3. /Rick N6XI On 5/31/07, R. Kevin Stover [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 That's exactly it. I worked one field day with a bunch of guys out in the Black Hills. Each one of them capable and comfortable at 40+ wpm. They always ran at 17-22wpm with the logic being there are a lot more guys/gals out there that can work that speed range copying a contest exchange than there are guys/gals who can do 40+. They finish top 10 in the country EVERY YEAR! I'd think the same logic would work in real contests as well. Unless the speed merchants actually like sending their exchanges 10 times to get one Q in the log. Darwin, Keith wrote: I think a heads-up contester could pick up more points by slowing down during those times when the QSO rate has dropped. Better to call one time at 12 wpm and work a station than to call 10 times at 30 wpm and work nobody. I've not heard this during a contest however. Seems most are only interested in collecting high-speed points and would prefer to continue calling CQ TEST at 30 wpm with no answer. Yea, I know speed changes are not always easy to do, but if it helps the final score, I bet folks would find a way. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - - -- R. Kevin Stover, ACØH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGXtGk11jxjloa2wsRAmtFAJ4sp3yigKY7nua5+QFpZJZWmUSZ1QCeOeKM uir69MR3U62a0XymPQxCrj0= =5A63 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- In days of old, when ops were bold, and sidebands not invented, The word would pass, by pounding brass, and all were well contented. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Doug, 1. QSK. This is user skill level dependent. If you do 20 wpm or less, the K2 QSK may be fine for you. During contesting, I am going at least 32-34 wpm, and not uncommonly at 40wpm. At these speeds and during a contest, I NEED to hear everything immediately (that is what top-end contesting is about). So not hearing between dits at slow contest speeds of 32 wpm is an issue for me. NOTE that I still used the K2 despite that deficit because OVERALL, it is a great radio. But for someone used to real QSK, this is not real QSK. Ask other serious contesters and they will say the same. For most K2 users, who are clearly not serious contesters, this is not an issue at all. Since the K3 says very much better QSK than the K2, I would easily assume that the deficit is real and acknowledged. *** I would argue that this is not skill level dependent, but user preference. Considering the number of Yaesu rigs used by the top ops, QSK isn't an end all issue. If 32 WPM is slow, I've been in the wrong contests. I listen to some of the folks cranking at over 35WPM and don't see any advantage when you look at the repeat rates. Maybe time is saved with non relevant items or repeatable items like CQ TEST or 5NN, but unless conditions or you have a killer signal, high speed means high repeat rates. 2. Stable power output. *** I've not seen this problem in QRP mode with my K2's either as standalone or with the KPA installed. I have had some issues on 160, but attribute this more to my antennas than the radio. SO IN CONCLUSION The K2 is an awesome value and for all, including serious contesters. At US$600 base, nobody expects it to be 100% perfect for all market niches. This is clearly the ABSOLUTE BEST VALUE going in ham radio. *** There are more than a few serious contesters here. Like you, I read the various contest reflectors and I doubt there is a single rig that would define the ultimate contesting radio. This is very subjective. It is also dependent on the category you play in, how you operate, what you have for antennas. What one might want for a major HP M/M operation is not the same that a SOSB op would want. Yes, there are basics that everyone wants... a bulletproof receiver comes to mind ;o) Some of us would like to see the HP stations have better Tx performance (better keying shape, stop overdriving their amps). The K2 has exceeded it's design purpose as I see it. As a CW contest rig, I can't think of anything I'd rather have... well except the K3 ;o) Thanks for the Q in WPX! Julius n2wn ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Fw: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Subject: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections For most K2 users, who are clearly not serious contesters ... Hmmm ... I expect the guys who make up Team Vertical who have set 3 QRP world records and 4 NA records in the CQWWCW, along with other firsts ... using K2's ... would be considered clearly seriouscontesters ... See (friend) KB7Q's photo on Pg 98 of the June QST ... 4th place S/O LP 2006 ARRL 160 Contest ... another clearly not serious contester ... with a K2 2. Stable power output. I've not seen any evidence of this with my K2 S/N 5665 The K2 has exceeded it's design purpose as I see it. As a CW contest rig, I can't think of anything I'd rather have... well except the K3 ;o) Ditto (:-)) 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
J F wrote: Doug, 1. QSK. This is user skill level dependent. If you do 20 wpm or less, the K2 QSK may be fine for you. During contesting, I am going at least 32-34 wpm, and not uncommonly at 40wpm. At these speeds and during a contest, I NEED to hear everything immediately (that is what top-end contesting is about). So not hearing between dits at slow contest speeds of 32 wpm is an issue for me. snip *** I would argue that this is not skill level dependent, but user preference. snip I listen to some of the folks cranking at over 35WPM and don't see any advantage when you look at the repeat rates. Maybe time is saved with non relevant items or repeatable items like CQ TEST or 5NN, but unless conditions or you have a killer signal, high speed means high repeat rates. perhaps stretching the topic a bit, but here's my, low speed, 2nd class commoner's 2 cents on the top-end contesting game. My cw qso speed is a comfy 13-15wpm. I can sorta copy (75%) at about 20-22wpm. When I participate in the (other than qrp) contests, like the wpx, it's strictly to see if/where I can be heard and to hand out a few points. I can cope with the 25wpm and under guys just fine. I figure it only enhances my learning. Above that I have to listen to the guy as many times as it takes, sometime 10 or more, just to get his call and the exchange info, so when/if I answer him he won't have to deal with my requests for repeats. If he isn't rare dx that I want to see if I can be heard by. (Not for certificates, but just for my own satisfaction that I was heard) I don't even bother with him. Is that a fun way to contest? no. Do I get fed up with the 40wpm (sic) big contesters? often. Do I usually just blow them off and they don't get my contact for points? You better believe it. Just another view of how the fast ones often fail to serve themselves well by going so bloody fast. More power to them that they are capable of doing so. I just wonder how many q's they miss out on in doing so? -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Sam Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (05/30/2007 22:33) My cw qso speed is a comfy 13-15wpm. I can sorta copy (75%) at about 20-22wpm. When I participate in the (other than qrp) contests, like the wpx, it's strictly to see if/where I can be heard and to hand out a few points. I can cope with the 25wpm and under guys just fine. I figure it only enhances my learning. Above that I have to listen to the guy as many times as it takes, sometime 10 or more, just to get his call and the exchange info, so when/if I answer him he won't have to deal with my requests for repeats. If he isn't rare dx that I want to see if I can be heard by. (Not for certificates, but just for my own satisfaction that I was heard) I don't even bother with him. Is that a fun way to contest? no. Do I get fed up with the 40wpm (sic) big contesters? often. Do I usually just blow them off and they don't get my contact for points? You better believe it. Just another view of how the fast ones often fail to serve themselves well by going so bloody fast. More power to them that they are capable of doing so. I just wonder how many q's they miss out on in doing so? -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan Not that many. There are plenty of contesters running at 30-40 wpm. Dissing contesters because you do not have the skill they have is rather like the Sunday Buick driver complaining he is not allowed to drive his Buick in the Indy 500. John - W2AGN ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Sam, I think there are more than a few who feel the way you do. Generally, if some one comes back to me slow when I'm running, I'll drop my speed some, probably above what they were sending at, but slow enough where I think they can get the exchange right the first time. Lately, I've noticed a lot of folks who send quite slow and I speculate these are first time contesters. I figure they want to learn the game, but may get frustrated if blown out of the water. In my mind it's better to slow down, make a solid contact and let the other guy feel good about it as well. The last few big contests I picked up some nice multipliers from guys who were sending slow with pileups on them, not because I was the loudest, but because I sent at a rate they could copy... My cw qso speed is a comfy 13-15wpm. I can sorta copy (75%) at about 20-22wpm. Above that I have to listen to the guy as many times as it takes, sometime 10 or more, just to get his call and the exchange info, so when/if I answer him he won't have to deal with my requests for repeats. This is a good way to pick up your speed. Much easier if the signal is solid, generally one of the superstations. I'd say the vast majority of contesters run in the mid 20 WPM to the low 30s... Some of the Eastern and Southern EU will crank 40+. Some exchanges are a lot easier to recognize than others at those rates. Is that a fun way to contest? no. If it's not fun, pass 'em by... Of course, not everything in a contest is fun. How you want to play makes it fun. It's a rush to get a run going and working smoothly, it's a lot of fun to find a rare one all by his lonesome. The vast majority of the folks who play great. Like everything else in life, there are those who you wish weren't involved. I just wonder how many q's they miss out on in doing so? It's an interesting question and would make for an interesting study. Assuming you could get unbiased reporting from both sides, it might change the perspective of some. Hope to catch you in one of the contests. Don't be afraid to send QRS if ya need to. Julius n2wn ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
Not that many. There are plenty of contesters running at 30-40 wpm. I think the best ones know when to drop their speed, or the QSO in some cases, else they gum up their runs. If someone has plenty of folks coming back to them at high speeds, they won't break cadence for someone slow, unless that signal is overpowering. Dissing contesters because you do not have the skill they have is rather like the Sunday Buick driver complaining he is not allowed to drive his Buick in the Indy 500. John - W2AGN That's why they have dirt tracks, drag strips, NASCAR, demolition derbies, La Mans... you have to drive in 'em all, but they all have different skill sets (and equipment). Some can master them all, some don't want to... Cheers, Julius n2wn ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Contest Reflections
To some degree there is a bit of speed snobbery out there. I too am comfortable as 13-15 wpm. Too often, someone will return on my cq at about 20. I do my best but it just isn't fun. I can't copy in my head and I have arthritis in my hands and can't write faster than about 15. The best solution is to join FISTS and work lots of FISTS stations. These guys and girls are a real pleasure and helped me make cw an enjoyable mode to operate. 73 - Doug --K0DXV Sam Morgan wrote: J F wrote: Doug, 1. QSK. This is user skill level dependent. If you do 20 wpm or less, the K2 QSK may be fine for you. During contesting, I am going at least 32-34 wpm, and not uncommonly at 40wpm. At these speeds and during a contest, I NEED to hear everything immediately (that is what top-end contesting is about). So not hearing between dits at slow contest speeds of 32 wpm is an issue for me. snip *** I would argue that this is not skill level dependent, but user preference. snip I listen to some of the folks cranking at over 35WPM and don't see any advantage when you look at the repeat rates. Maybe time is saved with non relevant items or repeatable items like CQ TEST or 5NN, but unless conditions or you have a killer signal, high speed means high repeat rates. perhaps stretching the topic a bit, but here's my, low speed, 2nd class commoner's 2 cents on the top-end contesting game. My cw qso speed is a comfy 13-15wpm. I can sorta copy (75%) at about 20-22wpm. When I participate in the (other than qrp) contests, like the wpx, it's strictly to see if/where I can be heard and to hand out a few points. I can cope with the 25wpm and under guys just fine. I figure it only enhances my learning. Above that I have to listen to the guy as many times as it takes, sometime 10 or more, just to get his call and the exchange info, so when/if I answer him he won't have to deal with my requests for repeats. If he isn't rare dx that I want to see if I can be heard by. (Not for certificates, but just for my own satisfaction that I was heard) I don't even bother with him. Is that a fun way to contest? no. Do I get fed up with the 40wpm (sic) big contesters? often. Do I usually just blow them off and they don't get my contact for points? You better believe it. Just another view of how the fast ones often fail to serve themselves well by going so bloody fast. More power to them that they are capable of doing so. I just wonder how many q's they miss out on in doing so? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] contest reflections on K2 - addendum
Hi all: I was going to post this privately, but since I've received several private (direct) comments in addition to the public postings, most recently by Dave, G3YMC, I'm making it public, using up some bandwidth, as I think this might benefit others. 1. QSK. This is user skill level dependent. If you do 20 wpm or less, the K2 QSK may be fine for you. During contesting, I am going at least 32-34 wpm, and not uncommonly at 40wpm. At these speeds and during a contest, I NEED to hear everything immediately (that is what top-end contesting is about). So not hearing between dits at slow contest speeds of 32 wpm is an issue for me. NOTE that I still used the K2 despite that deficit because OVERALL, it is a great radio. But for someone used to real QSK, this is not real QSK. Ask other serious contesters and they will say the same. For most K2 users, who are clearly not serious contesters, this is not an issue at all. Since the K3 says very much better QSK than the K2, I would easily assume that the deficit is real and acknowledged. 2. Stable power output. I use multiple antennas PER BAND. All are resonant (monoband yagi's, Optibeam tribanders, and quads). EXAMPLE: During the WPX contest that took place this weekend I may have been working Europe on my yagi pointed to EU (about 45 degree from NJ). If I hear a potential qso in South America (170 degrees), I simply turn the antenna switch to my QUAD which is already pointed south. When I do that, the power output indicated on the K2 DRAMATICALLY changes. It might go from 5 watts to 2 watts or to 15 watts! I am not sure why, but some of the technical guys explained it to me long ago (something about how the power output is set [calculated] on the K2). I cannot justify entering the qrp category of a contest if the radio is running 15 out when qrp is defined as 5 out. So whenever I change antennas (which I do a million times during a contest), I have to hit TUNE to make sure the power stays at qrp (goldie locks syndrome). NOTE: I do not have the internal antenna tuner. I don't know that would make a difference or not. IF THIS IS NOT HOW THE RADIO SHOULD WORK, PLEASE TELL ME! W3FPR tells me that this IS how it works. 3. AGC. Using the K2 S meter, signals here range from zero S units on the meter (even though atmospheric noise is supposed to be S1) to 40 or even 60 over 9 (all LEDs lit up). A 40 over 9 signal is VERY LOUD in the phones while S1 is not. This has to be real because the K3 provides tools to address this. I assume (know) that this is how the radio was designed. Many contesters have commented (here) that they like this aspect because it is easier to pick out the LOUD signals in a big pileup. Different strokes AND FINALLY I have been reminded that the K2 was not designed as contest radio...that it simply ended up being so good in other aspects, that it ended up being that way. Agreed. My comments were posted in response to a recent number of reflector posts suggesting improvements for the K2. I doubt that any of these will be addressed because the K2 is a fine radio the way it is and being a serious contester puts me out of the main target market for the K2, esp now with the K3 on the near horizon (which I have ordered). But if Lyle, Eric, Wayne, et all ever catch their breath, and if K2 users want improvements, I thought I'd add my contester-centric dime. SO IN CONCLUSION The K2 is an awesome value and for all, including serious contesters. At US$600 base, nobody expects it to be 100% perfect for all market niches. This is clearly the ABSOLUTE BEST VALUE going in ham radio. de Doug KR2Q ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] contest reflections on K2 - addendum
Doug: You might find my measurements useful in understanding your K2's audio output with changes in RF input levels. http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/receiver_agc_curves.htm Some receivers have an AGC curve that holds the audio output constant for 80 dB or more variation in input level, such as the Racal RA6790/GM. The K2's AGC does not have this flat-top characteristic. Rather, the audio output increases with RF input, but obviously not at a 1 dB : 1 dB rate. Depending on whether you have the pre-amp on or off, the K2's audio changes as much as 40 dB over an input range from -120 dBm to -20 dBm. Under those operating conditions, the AGC works at about a 2.5 dB : 1 dB, RF to audio change. As you say, some folks like the AGC to hold the audio constant and others a K2-type action. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] contest reflections on K2 - addendum
I said: Depending on whether you have the pre-amp on or off, the K2's audio changes as much as 40 dB over an input range from -120 dBm to -20 dBm. Under those operating conditions, the AGC works at about a 2.5 dB : 1 dB, RF to audio change. I did not mean that statement to imply that the audio output to RF input transfer ratio remains constant throughout the 100 dB input range. It's definitely non-linear, as the curves at http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/receiver_agc_curves.htm demonstrate. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] contest reflections on K2 - addendum
KR2Q: 1. QSK. This is user skill level dependent. If you do 20 wpm or less, the K2 QSK may be fine for you. During contesting, I am going at least 32-34 wpm, and not uncommonly at 40wpm. Hmmm...guess I should return the stack of plaques I've won over the years since I have NEVER used QSK. This includes all 6 current USA records for CQ WW, ARRL DX and CQ WPX on 10m, both CW and SSB. I also normally compare favorably with the top USA multi-multi stations: http://users.vnet.net/btippett/new_page_6.htm 2. Stable power output. I use multiple antennas PER BAND. So whenever I change antennas, I have to hit TUNE. You need a peak-responding meter like a Mirage MP1. No need to hit TUNE since it responds quite well to fast CW. 3. AGC. Using the K2 S meter, signals here range from zero S units on the meter (even though atmospheric noise is supposed to be S1) to 40 or even 60 over 9 (all LEDs lit up). A 40 over 9 signal is VERY LOUD in the phones while S1 is not. Orion's flat AGC response was a major dislike by operators at W8JI in multiop 160 contests. Yaesu and Ten-Tec have both now added Sloped AGC options to their flat responses. See K8ZOA's interesting results below: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-May/067727.html As you said above...different strokes. 73, Bill W4ZV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] contest reflections on K2 - addendum
Hi All, Regarding the K2 qsk; in comparison to my TT Corsair II it sounds almost like semi break in to me. However, I bought the K2 for portable operation, and it beats anything I have used in the past. Tim gm4lmh ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
