[Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
I'm a return veteran contester with lots of wins using the old pencil log with a dupe sheet. I've tried various new programs attempting to gain a level of comfort so I might consider a serious entry into some contesting again. You should appreciate that I'd hate to feel the pain of getting part way into the contest and be delayed or loose my logs due to a computer freeze, lock out or reboot. For the past year I've been soliciting contest guru opinions and come away with conclusions based on inputs of the long term contersters from my past more active years. My conclusion has nothing to do with the suitability of the wonderful K3 as a radio for CW or SSB contesting. I'd use a basic mission critical PC with a 386/486 processor, DOS and CT to run the logging process without connection to the Internet during the contest. CT runs with the K3. The more recent contesting software might be ok but Windows is buggy and may crash during the event. Lets hope System 7 can be configured to offer mission critical reliability in the new PC platforms. Lastly, I find this to be mostly an off Elecraft topic. Happy New Year 73, John, W1QS K3 s/n 2274, K2 s/n 4204 mission critical = power supply with extra wattage, two hard drives with less than 10,000 hrs, shadow write utility and clean fan/filter __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
I beg to differ with whatever input you've received John. A modern, powerful windows pc is a great investment for ~$1K. It's not going to crash during a contest, running any of the top Windows contest loggers and will give you loads of enjoyment the other 95% of the time. 73, Barry N1EU JOHN LAWRENCE wrote: I'm a return veteran contester with lots of wins using the old pencil log with a dupe sheet. I've tried various new programs attempting to gain a level of comfort so I might consider a serious entry into some contesting again. You should appreciate that I'd hate to feel the pain of getting part way into the contest and be delayed or loose my logs due to a computer freeze, lock out or reboot. For the past year I've been soliciting contest guru opinions and come away with conclusions based on inputs of the long term contersters from my past more active years. My conclusion has nothing to do with the suitability of the wonderful K3 as a radio for CW or SSB contesting. I'd use a basic mission critical PC with a 386/486 processor, DOS and CT to run the logging process without connection to the Internet during the contest. CT runs with the K3. The more recent contesting software might be ok but Windows is buggy and may crash during the event. Lets hope System 7 can be configured to offer mission critical reliability in the new PC platforms. Lastly, I find this to be mostly an off Elecraft topic. Happy New Year 73, John, W1QS -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Contesting-with-logging-software-on-a-PC-not-MAC-tp4262951p4263502.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
At 01:08 PM 06/01/10, John, W1QS wrote: I'd use a basic mission critical PC with a 386/486 processor, DOS and CT to run the logging process without connection to the Internet during the contest. CT runs with the K3. The more recent contesting software might be ok but Windows is buggy and may crash during the event. Hi John, I've been using NA with an old celeron (sp). I've used it single radio and SO2R, rigs being K2/K2 and K3/K2. I built the switch box for SO2R, featured in the NA manual (all Radio Shack parts) Never a problem. No reboots or crashes. the beauty of the old machines is adding ports, serial and LPT with expansion cards. The SO2R box is a hands off operation, controlled by a few key strokes, Any questions, email me. Computers radio, older is better (for me anyway). John, k7up K3, K2's, K1 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
John, I have to agree with Barry, but I will lower that $1k price by a lot. I have found that Windows 2000 and Windows XP are quite stable. No glitches and certainly no Blue Screen of Death on any computer worth it salt. Yes, Win95, Win 98, and Windows ME did have unstable quirks. Right now, one can obtain a very good computer in the 2.6 to 3.2 GB CPU speed range as an off-lease machine for $100 to $250 from TigerDirect (and possibly other dealers). I have bought several of the IBM off-lease computers from them in the last 2 years and have been very satisfied - most are loaded with Windows XP Pro, although some have XP Home and others come with no OS loaded (a real bargain for those interested in Linux Mint or Ubuntu). So I have to say to those hams who are clinging to their old 266 MHz computers running DOS or Windows 95 (98), that there is a limit to the misery that those old computers will create - for myself, I prefer to move up to at least Windows 2000. On my home network, I have 2 machines running Win2K, 3 running Win XP pro and 2 running Win XP Home, and have not had problems with any of them except for occasional hardware failures (power supplies, hard drives, and memory failures do happen on occasion), but the OS has been quite stable since Win 2K (OK, skip Vista which has its own problems with compatibility). I also provide support for our church network running 13 machines on a Peer to Peer network and the experience there has been similar - Win XP is stable (as is Win2k). Windows 7 may prove to be good, time will tell. Do go to Windows Update and keep the OS updated to the latest level (turn on Automatic Updates if you are on a broadband connection).. If you are slaved to some DOS applications, I highly recommend you stick with Windows 2000, it runs most DOS applications just fine - or do a dual boot with DOS 6.22 loaded. 73, Don W3FPR Barry N1EU wrote: I beg to differ with whatever input you've received John. A modern, powerful windows pc is a great investment for ~$1K. It's not going to crash during a contest, running any of the top Windows contest loggers and will give you loads of enjoyment the other 95% of the time. 73, Barry N1EU JOHN LAWRENCE wrote: I'm a return veteran contester with lots of wins using the old pencil log with a dupe sheet. I've tried various new programs attempting to gain a level of comfort so I might consider a serious entry into some contesting again. You should appreciate that I'd hate to feel the pain of getting part way into the contest and be delayed or loose my logs due to a computer freeze, lock out or reboot. For the past year I've been soliciting contest guru opinions and come away with conclusions based on inputs of the long term contersters from my past more active years. My conclusion has nothing to do with the suitability of the wonderful K3 as a radio for CW or SSB contesting. I'd use a basic mission critical PC with a 386/486 processor, DOS and CT to run the logging process without connection to the Internet during the contest. CT runs with the K3. The more recent contesting software might be ok but Windows is buggy and may crash during the event. Lets hope System 7 can be configured to offer mission critical reliability in the new PC platforms. Lastly, I find this to be mostly an off Elecraft topic. Happy New Year 73, John, W1QS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
Hi John, Welcome back to contesting :) I have run a fair amount of 24-44 hour tests in the past few years running a 5 year old XP box, N1MM and a pair of K3's in SO2R without incident. The XP box that I use is not used very much and my daily workstation is a Mac. Actually the PC is tiny Dell dual core that I picked up from ebay for $200. One thing I would recommend is to run your log/db on a USB flash based device, this way if your PC decides to act up or even worse the drive dies then your log will be safe. This also allows you to quickly move the file to a backup machine. Remember the box only needs to handle a few tasks during a short 48 hour period, yes murphy can strike and sometimes its PC's and not Radio's :) There are also a few other technologies other then the flash drive approach, you can get a free 2GB account from http://www.dropbox.com and point your log to your dropbox folder and it will backup into the ether in real-time and you can even have the same dropbox folder on a backup PC ready to go. All kinds of options today for a relatively trouble free windoze contesting experience ;) Hope this helps and good luck! Lee WW2DX.com On Jan 6, 2010, at 3:08 PM, John Lawrence wrote: I'm a return veteran contester with lots of wins using the old pencil log with a dupe sheet. I've tried various new programs attempting to gain a level of comfort so I might consider a serious entry into some contesting again. You should appreciate that I'd hate to feel the pain of getting part way into the contest and be delayed or loose my logs due to a computer freeze, lock out or reboot. For the past year I've been soliciting contest guru opinions and come away with conclusions based on inputs of the long term contersters from my past more active years. My conclusion has nothing to do with the suitability of the wonderful K3 as a radio for CW or SSB contesting. I'd use a basic mission critical PC with a 386/486 processor, DOS and CT to run the logging process without connection to the Internet during the contest. CT runs with the K3. The more recent contesting software might be ok but Windows is buggy and may crash during the event. Lets hope System 7 can be configured to offer mission critical reliability in the new PC platforms. Lastly, I find this to be mostly an off Elecraft topic. Happy New Year 73, John, W1QS K3 s/n 2274, K2 s/n 4204 mission critical = power supply with extra wattage, two hard drives with less than 10,000 hrs, shadow write utility and clean fan/filter __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
One thing I would recommend is to run your log/db on a USB flash based device, this way if your PC decides to act up or even worse the drive dies then your log will be safe. Errr, not if the flash drive dies, unless you meant to use the flash as a backup. With no moving parts, flash drives are probably more reliable than conventional hard drives but they are not immortal and are only rated for so many read/write operations. Also *all* your local drives of whatever type may go up in flames if the PC or shack catches fire, or someone may steal the lot There are also a few other technologies other then the flash drive approach, you can get a free 2GB account from http://www.dropbox.com and point your log to your dropbox folder and it will backup into the ether in real-time and you can even have the same dropbox folder on a backup PC ready to go. That's the better option - an offsite backup - if used as a backup, in other words again not the only copy. The online file systems are fine if you have a sufficiently fast and reliable Internet connection, but again I would advise sending backups off-site and retaining one or more local copies of your log as well, just in case the organization running the offsite system has a technical fault, or deletes the files, or whatever (trust me: it happens). You can also take occasional offline log backups onto CD-ROM, or yet another flash drive, that you physically remove from the machine and place elsewhere in safe storage, far enough away from the shack not to be caught in the same fire/burglary/whatever. If that's all too much effort, at least consider uploading your log regularly to Logbook of the World. LoTW is a 'last resort' backup since it only stores the minimal amount of info on each QSO, but at least it is possible to retrieve the basic QSO data if you have no other choice. This has a useful side effect of increasing usage of LoTW! 73 Gary ZL2iFB PS This applies equally to Macs and PCs. And PDAs. Even paper logbooks are both valuable and flammable! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
On Jan 6, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Gary Hinson wrote: One thing I would recommend is to run your log/db on a USB flash based device, this way if your PC decides to act up or even worse the drive dies then your log will be safe. Errr, not if the flash drive dies, unless you meant to use the flash as a backup. With no moving parts, flash drives are probably more reliable than conventional hard drives but they are not immortal and are only rated for so many read/write operations. Also *all* your local drives of whatever type may go up in flames if the PC or shack catches fire, or someone may steal the lot Hi Gary, No actually I meant use the flash for the actual live log. Flash based drives are far more reliable then traditional platters. Flash has a life expectancy for ~10K read/writes far less then what would be used in a 24hr contest :) I have had many platter drives fail in my career and as of to date never had a flash device fail (knocking on wood). There are also a few other technologies other then the flash drive approach, you can get a free 2GB account from http://www.dropbox.com and point your log to your dropbox folder and it will backup into the ether in real-time and you can even have the same dropbox folder on a backup PC ready to go. That's the better option - an offsite backup - if used as a backup, in other words again not the only copy. The online file systems are fine if you have a sufficiently fast and reliable Internet connection, but again I would advise sending backups off-site and retaining one or more local copies of your log as well, just in case the organization running the offsite system has a technical fault, or deletes the files, or whatever (trust me: it happens). I am also a huge believer in off-site backups as well, we are seeing newer technologies like dropbox where it acts more like a local drive then a backup device. I use that service to create corporate wide shared folders across large geographical locations and its been very reliable. You can also take occasional offline log backups onto CD-ROM, or yet another flash drive, that you physically remove from the machine and place elsewhere in safe storage, far enough away from the shack not to be caught in the same fire/burglary/whatever. If that's all too much effort, at least consider uploading your log regularly to Logbook of the World. LoTW is a 'last resort' backup since it only stores the minimal amount of info on each QSO, but at least it is possible to retrieve the basic QSO data if you have no other choice. This has a useful side effect of increasing usage of LoTW! I don't want to wander off topic here, but John was specific about contesting scenarios and I think we have him covered :) Also, does LOTW allow for restoring your log? I thought they once frowned upon that at one time. 73 Lee WW2DX 73 Gary ZL2iFB PS This applies equally to Macs and PCs. And PDAs. Even paper logbooks are both valuable and flammable! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Contesting with logging software on a PC (not MAC)
No actually I meant use the flash for the actual live log. Flash based drives are far more reliable then traditional platters. True, probably. Flash has a life expectancy for ~10K read/writes far less then what would be used in a 24hr contest :) Is that so? I have had many platter drives fail in my career and as of to date never had a flash device fail (knocking on wood). Me too, Lee, but the key point remains: if you only have a single copy of your log on one device, you're putting a lot of faith in that one device. Mechanical reliability of the device is not the only concern. I am also a huge believer in off-site backups as well, we are seeing newer technologies like dropbox where it acts more like a local drive then a backup device. I use that service to create corporate wide shared folders across large geographical locations and its been very reliable. Agreed! I don't want to wander off topic here, but John was specific about contesting scenarios and I think we have him covered :) Yes but other forumites might have interepreted it in a more general sense. If between us we help someone avoid losing their entire log, I think we've done a good deed! Also, does LOTW allow for restoring your log? I thought they once frowned upon that at one time. I don't know about them but yes you can retrieve your whole log, or rather the data they have retained from the log you submitted to LoTW. There are hints on how to do this in at least 5 different ways on my website, if anyone needs it: http://www.g4ifb.com/html/lotw.html#UsingLoTW 73 Gary ZL2iFB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
