Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Here are the macros I use to flip between voice and digital. I have assigned them to PF1 and PF2 on the KX3. I only have the two macros and don't need to toggle to other macros on the same key press. *PF1 - Digital:* GT002;MG013;AG007;ML007;MD6;DT0;RG250;PA0;PC005;MN096;MP000;MN128;MP000;MN135;MP000;MN255;BW;SWH29; *PF2 - Voice:* SWH29;MD2;BW0300;GT004;MG045;AG010;ML000;PC010;MN096;MP002;MN128;MP001;MN129;MP000;MN135;MP016;MN255; KX3 VOX Toggle: SWH29 K3 VOX Toggle: SWH09 Not sure if all the menu items are the same. For example, MN128 on the KX3 is AGC MD (mode) MN128 on the K3 is not defined. Couldn't find an equivalent quickly. MN129 on the KX3 is AGC Speed MN129 is not defined on the K3. Although, you could use MG037 (AGC-Slow) or MG061 (AGC-Fast). Your preference. MN135 is MIC Bias on the KX3. MN135 is not defined on the K3. Not sure what the equivalent would be. The line-in on the KX3 is the Mic jack. I don't expect it would be for the K3. regards, Brian VE3IBW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
No, Brian. I have done none of the software mode settings. I’ll take another look though and more testing. Thanks and 73, Terry, W0FM From: Brian Waterworth [mailto:brian.waterwo...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 4:17 PM To: Terry Schieler Cc: Elecraft List Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Hi Terry, I have actually disabled all those settings in WSJT-X. I don't let WSJT-X put the rig into data mode (from the Radio tab - MODE = NONE). I don't remember the power settings by band on the Audio tab within the settings dialogue. I setup my KX3 ahead of time for digital modes (using a macro) and leave it that way for all data modes (FLdigi, WSJT-X, etc.). Do you have any of these options selected? Have you tried disabling them, setup your sound card, etc. as per Don's et al. instructions and then changed bands back and forth? regards, Brian VE3IBW On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: There is a feature in WSJT-X that saves power setting and tune power per band. So, to correct your concern, select the option and then set the value per band. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Terry Schieler wrote: > > I have been watching this thread carefully since it began, and, combined with > my experiences over this past weekend, am now more confused than ever. Don, > W3FPR recently (again) gave very succinct instructions for getting a good > starting audio point for the ALC readings. I had previously not been able to > get the "four bars solid, fifth bar flickering" on my K3S for JT65 for weeks > now, no matter what I did. Bought all the books and read all the articles > (Yes, they reference rigs that work differently than my K3S. Understood. I > get it) Yesterday I decided to follow Don's instructions (as bolstered by > those from Bob, K4TAX). Thanks to both fine gents. > > I set: > K3S Mode to Data A > Band: 20 Meters (14.076) > Windows 7 Audio level OUT from computer to about 50% of scale (USB CODEC) > Line-IN level on the K3S to 30 > PWR slider in the WSJT-X software to about mid-range > Set the K3S power out to 30 with rig's PO control > > During a TEST transmit (using the TUNE button in the software), I adjusted > the WSJT PWR slider (downward) on the software to finally achieve the four > bars solid and fifth bar flickering. I then switched to normal TX, the ALC > reading held fast (four solid fifth flicker) and I made a couple of QSOs. > Life was good. Power was still at 30, COMP 0 as set. Seemed that Don and > Bob's comments were spot on. I thought my K3S was good to go for all K3S > digital modes, so I touched nothing. Then I changed bands with the K3S band > switch to 15 meters. Did a test TX on 15 with the Mode (Data A), Power Out > (30) and Comp (0), Software PWR slider settings still untouched. But upon > *normal* TX on 15 M the ALC had jumped to 6 solid bars. Nothing I tried > would get it back to the desired "4 solid+5th flicker" on 15M. > > Then I went back to 20M. But, the ALC there had also changed and was now 6 > solid bars. It had changed somehow. Power out still 30, Comp 0, etc. Also, > now the WSJT PWR slider had moved back up above its previous mid-scale > settings as well. I had carefully touched nothing but the BAND and TX TEST > switchs on the K3S. > > Aren't the DATA A settings saved per band after doing these adjustments for > digital modes? Why would a simple band change alter the rig's ALC setting as > well as the PWR slider in the software? Did the new Freq somehow change the > Window's Line Out and the software's PWR slider? Should I expect to have to > reset the settings every time I use one of the JT and FT digital modes? > > I think I'll try bouncing signals off commercial tow boats on the Mississippi > River instead. Must be easier. "CQ the Rhonda May...Calling the Rhonda > May, Over". ;o) > > 73, Terry W0FM > > > -Original Message- > From: Brian Hunt [mailto:huntin...@coastside.net] > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 3:02 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior > > Here are some spectrum photos from the tune signals of both FLDIGI and WSJT-X > 1.8. All three are essentially identical showing some low level sideband > noise +/- 30 kHz and down > 60dBc. There's no apparent difference in the > spectra between pumping and non-pumping ALC, as Wes reported. > > http://www.pbase.com/brhunt/spectrum_photos > > Enjoy! > > 73, > Brian, K0DTJ > > > > __ > Elecr
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Hi Terry, I have actually disabled all those settings in WSJT-X. I don't let WSJT-X put the rig into data mode (from the Radio tab - MODE = NONE). I don't remember the power settings by band on the Audio tab within the settings dialogue. I setup my KX3 ahead of time for digital modes (using a macro) and leave it that way for all data modes (FLdigi, WSJT-X, etc.). Do you have any of these options selected? Have you tried disabling them, setup your sound card, etc. as per Don's et al. instructions and then changed bands back and forth? regards, Brian VE3IBW On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > There is a feature in WSJT-X that saves power setting and tune power per > band. So, to correct your concern, select the option and then set the > value per band. > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Terry Schieler wrote: > > > > I have been watching this thread carefully since it began, and, combined > with my experiences over this past weekend, am now more confused than > ever. Don, W3FPR recently (again) gave very succinct instructions for > getting a good starting audio point for the ALC readings. I had previously > not been able to get the "four bars solid, fifth bar flickering" on my K3S > for JT65 for weeks now, no matter what I did. Bought all the books and > read all the articles (Yes, they reference rigs that work differently than > my K3S. Understood. I get it) Yesterday I decided to follow Don's > instructions (as bolstered by those from Bob, K4TAX). Thanks to both fine > gents. > > > > I set: > > K3S Mode to Data A > > Band: 20 Meters (14.076) > > Windows 7 Audio level OUT from computer to about 50% of scale (USB CODEC) > > Line-IN level on the K3S to 30 > > PWR slider in the WSJT-X software to about mid-range > > Set the K3S power out to 30 with rig's PO control > > > > During a TEST transmit (using the TUNE button in the software), I > adjusted the WSJT PWR slider (downward) on the software to finally achieve > the four bars solid and fifth bar flickering. I then switched to normal > TX, the ALC reading held fast (four solid fifth flicker) and I made a > couple of QSOs. Life was good. Power was still at 30, COMP 0 as set. > Seemed that Don and Bob's comments were spot on. I thought my K3S was good > to go for all K3S digital modes, so I touched nothing. Then I changed > bands with the K3S band switch to 15 meters. Did a test TX on 15 with the > Mode (Data A), Power Out (30) and Comp (0), Software PWR slider settings > still untouched. But upon *normal* TX on 15 M the ALC had jumped to 6 > solid bars. Nothing I tried would get it back to the desired "4 solid+5th > flicker" on 15M. > > > > Then I went back to 20M. But, the ALC there had also changed and was > now 6 solid bars. It had changed somehow. Power out still 30, Comp 0, > etc. Also, now the WSJT PWR slider had moved back up above its previous > mid-scale settings as well. I had carefully touched nothing but the BAND > and TX TEST switchs on the K3S. > > > > Aren't the DATA A settings saved per band after doing these adjustments > for digital modes? Why would a simple band change alter the rig's ALC > setting as well as the PWR slider in the software? Did the new Freq > somehow change the Window's Line Out and the software's PWR slider? Should > I expect to have to reset the settings every time I use one of the JT and > FT digital modes? > > > > I think I'll try bouncing signals off commercial tow boats on the > Mississippi River instead. Must be easier. "CQ the Rhonda > May...Calling the Rhonda May, Over". ;o) > > > > 73, Terry W0FM > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Brian Hunt [mailto:huntin...@coastside.net] > > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 3:02 PM > > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior > > > > Here are some spectrum photos from the tune signals of both FLDIGI and > WSJT-X 1.8. All three are essentially identical showing some low level > sideband noise +/- 30 kHz and down > 60dBc. There's no apparent difference > in the spectra between pumping and non-pumping ALC, as Wes reported. > > > > http://www.pbase.com/brhunt/spectrum_photos > > > > Enjoy! > > > > 73, > > Brian, K0DTJ > > > > > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Ele
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
There is a feature in WSJT-X that saves power setting and tune power per band. So, to correct your concern, select the option and then set the value per band. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Terry Schieler wrote: > > I have been watching this thread carefully since it began, and, combined with > my experiences over this past weekend, am now more confused than ever. Don, > W3FPR recently (again) gave very succinct instructions for getting a good > starting audio point for the ALC readings. I had previously not been able to > get the "four bars solid, fifth bar flickering" on my K3S for JT65 for weeks > now, no matter what I did. Bought all the books and read all the articles > (Yes, they reference rigs that work differently than my K3S. Understood. I > get it) Yesterday I decided to follow Don's instructions (as bolstered by > those from Bob, K4TAX). Thanks to both fine gents. > > I set: > K3S Mode to Data A > Band: 20 Meters (14.076) > Windows 7 Audio level OUT from computer to about 50% of scale (USB CODEC) > Line-IN level on the K3S to 30 > PWR slider in the WSJT-X software to about mid-range > Set the K3S power out to 30 with rig's PO control > > During a TEST transmit (using the TUNE button in the software), I adjusted > the WSJT PWR slider (downward) on the software to finally achieve the four > bars solid and fifth bar flickering. I then switched to normal TX, the ALC > reading held fast (four solid fifth flicker) and I made a couple of QSOs. > Life was good. Power was still at 30, COMP 0 as set. Seemed that Don and > Bob's comments were spot on. I thought my K3S was good to go for all K3S > digital modes, so I touched nothing. Then I changed bands with the K3S band > switch to 15 meters. Did a test TX on 15 with the Mode (Data A), Power Out > (30) and Comp (0), Software PWR slider settings still untouched. But upon > *normal* TX on 15 M the ALC had jumped to 6 solid bars. Nothing I tried > would get it back to the desired "4 solid+5th flicker" on 15M. > > Then I went back to 20M. But, the ALC there had also changed and was now 6 > solid bars. It had changed somehow. Power out still 30, Comp 0, etc. Also, > now the WSJT PWR slider had moved back up above its previous mid-scale > settings as well. I had carefully touched nothing but the BAND and TX TEST > switchs on the K3S. > > Aren't the DATA A settings saved per band after doing these adjustments for > digital modes? Why would a simple band change alter the rig's ALC setting as > well as the PWR slider in the software? Did the new Freq somehow change the > Window's Line Out and the software's PWR slider? Should I expect to have to > reset the settings every time I use one of the JT and FT digital modes? > > I think I'll try bouncing signals off commercial tow boats on the Mississippi > River instead. Must be easier. "CQ the Rhonda May...Calling the Rhonda > May, Over". ;o) > > 73, Terry W0FM > > > -Original Message- > From: Brian Hunt [mailto:huntin...@coastside.net] > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 3:02 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior > > Here are some spectrum photos from the tune signals of both FLDIGI and WSJT-X > 1.8. All three are essentially identical showing some low level sideband > noise +/- 30 kHz and down > 60dBc. There's no apparent difference in the > spectra between pumping and non-pumping ALC, as Wes reported. > > http://www.pbase.com/brhunt/spectrum_photos > > Enjoy! > > 73, > Brian, K0DTJ > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
I have been watching this thread carefully since it began, and, combined with my experiences over this past weekend, am now more confused than ever. Don, W3FPR recently (again) gave very succinct instructions for getting a good starting audio point for the ALC readings. I had previously not been able to get the "four bars solid, fifth bar flickering" on my K3S for JT65 for weeks now, no matter what I did. Bought all the books and read all the articles (Yes, they reference rigs that work differently than my K3S. Understood. I get it) Yesterday I decided to follow Don's instructions (as bolstered by those from Bob, K4TAX). Thanks to both fine gents. I set: K3S Mode to Data A Band: 20 Meters (14.076) Windows 7 Audio level OUT from computer to about 50% of scale (USB CODEC) Line-IN level on the K3S to 30 PWR slider in the WSJT-X software to about mid-range Set the K3S power out to 30 with rig's PO control During a TEST transmit (using the TUNE button in the software), I adjusted the WSJT PWR slider (downward) on the software to finally achieve the four bars solid and fifth bar flickering. I then switched to normal TX, the ALC reading held fast (four solid fifth flicker) and I made a couple of QSOs. Life was good. Power was still at 30, COMP 0 as set. Seemed that Don and Bob's comments were spot on. I thought my K3S was good to go for all K3S digital modes, so I touched nothing. Then I changed bands with the K3S band switch to 15 meters. Did a test TX on 15 with the Mode (Data A), Power Out (30) and Comp (0), Software PWR slider settings still untouched. But upon *normal* TX on 15 M the ALC had jumped to 6 solid bars. Nothing I tried would get it back to the desired "4 solid+5th flicker" on 15M. Then I went back to 20M. But, the ALC there had also changed and was now 6 solid bars. It had changed somehow. Power out still 30, Comp 0, etc. Also, now the WSJT PWR slider had moved back up above its previous mid-scale settings as well. I had carefully touched nothing but the BAND and TX TEST switchs on the K3S. Aren't the DATA A settings saved per band after doing these adjustments for digital modes? Why would a simple band change alter the rig's ALC setting as well as the PWR slider in the software? Did the new Freq somehow change the Window's Line Out and the software's PWR slider? Should I expect to have to reset the settings every time I use one of the JT and FT digital modes? I think I'll try bouncing signals off commercial tow boats on the Mississippi River instead. Must be easier. "CQ the Rhonda May...Calling the Rhonda May, Over". ;o) 73, Terry W0FM -Original Message- From: Brian Hunt [mailto:huntin...@coastside.net] Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 3:02 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Here are some spectrum photos from the tune signals of both FLDIGI and WSJT-X 1.8. All three are essentially identical showing some low level sideband noise +/- 30 kHz and down > 60dBc. There's no apparent difference in the spectra between pumping and non-pumping ALC, as Wes reported. http://www.pbase.com/brhunt/spectrum_photos Enjoy! 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
I was thinking that as the "ALC" meter isn't really showing ALC, but audio level when below I believe 5 bars? - that the ALC isn't being modulated, rather what we may be seeing is an artefact caused by the way the peak level of the audio is detected by sampling the audio at a particular sampling rate. Because it isn't just a simple hardware analog peak detector that is used, the audio meter reading displayed will beat between the sampling rate of the audio detector and the actual frequency of the tone, even an absolutely pure tone with no harmonics. I have seen similar odd things happen with another make of radio with their power meter (which again is sampled) and AM modulation on the transmission. Putting a true analog power meter on the output showed no variation in power output, it was all an illusion. It's just one of those annoying things that happen when we aren't dealing with purely analog methods of detection of frequencies. You see similar aliases when using modern Digital Sampling Oscilloscopes. As you have pointed out the solution can only involve moving the software's tune frequency to a frequency that does not beat at such a visibly slow rate with the audio detector sampling rate. 73 from David GM4JJJ > On 5 Aug 2017, at 00:45, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s > modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard > pitch may be an acceptable workaround. > > Wayne > N6KR > > >> On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: >> >> Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. >> >> This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us >> have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? >> >> Wes, N7WS >> >> >>> On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: >>> Here's some followup: >>> FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, >>> and 2000 Hz. >>> WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and >>> 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). >>> >>> The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output >>> and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter >>> center frequency has no effect on the above. >>> >>> 73, >>> Brian, K0DTJ >>> On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ >>> >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org >>> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to gm4...@yahoo.co.uk __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message de
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
I said earlier: "If I set the tone to 1500 Hz, the FT8 mid-band target, I'm presented with the cyclic ALC and some ~193 Hz, -50 dBc sidebands. " Ten KHz/div is too coarse to see these. Try again. Wes N7WS On 8/5/2017 1:01 PM, Brian Hunt wrote: Here are some spectrum photos from the tune signals of both FLDIGI and WSJT-X 1.8. All three are essentially identical showing some low level sideband noise +/- 30 kHz and down > 60dBc. There's no apparent difference in the spectra between pumping and non-pumping ALC, as Wes reported. http://www.pbase.com/brhunt/spectrum_photos Enjoy! 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Here are some spectrum photos from the tune signals of both FLDIGI and WSJT-X 1.8. All three are essentially identical showing some low level sideband noise +/- 30 kHz and down > 60dBc. There's no apparent difference in the spectra between pumping and non-pumping ALC, as Wes reported. http://www.pbase.com/brhunt/spectrum_photos Enjoy! 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Nope, I was responding to Joe. I top posted right above his commentary per Elecraft list guidelines. On 8/5/2017 12:47 PM, M. George wrote: Wes, I understand that... assuming you are responding to me... I was asking Joe what .inf file to modify and then reinstall the USB CODEC generic driver to disable the irritating microphone boost which makes it too sensitive. I'm taking about the KIO3B USB CODEC here... Max NG7M On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Except when the sound card is in the computer instead of the radio, "Line In" is receiving signal from the program via the sound card 'speaker' output, not the microphone. Moving the card into the radio doesn't change this. The only thing changed is it's too darned sensitive. Regards, Wes N7WS On 8/5/2017 9:39 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. Actually, you need to adjust the options in the Windows *.inf file used for the PCM-series CODEC (or use the codec that identifies as line level). Windows is turning on a 20 dB preamp in the CODEC. I suspect if one sets the Windows Sound Options (Control Panel) to display dB rather than percentage, the minimum level will be some- thing like 16 to 20 dB! That indicated the fixed 20 dB "mic preamp" is engaged. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Wes, I understand that... assuming you are responding to me... I was asking Joe what .inf file to modify and then reinstall the USB CODEC generic driver to disable the irritating microphone boost which makes it too sensitive. I'm taking about the KIO3B USB CODEC here... Max NG7M On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: > Except when the sound card is in the computer instead of the radio, "Line > In" is receiving signal from the program via the sound card 'speaker' > output, not the microphone. Moving the card into the radio doesn't change > this. The only thing changed is it's too darned sensitive. > > Regards, > > Wes N7WS > > > On 8/5/2017 9:39 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > >> >> On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: >> >>> But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the >>> internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows >>> gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. >>> >> >> Actually, you need to adjust the options in the Windows *.inf file >> used for the PCM-series CODEC (or use the codec that identifies as >> line level). Windows is turning on a 20 dB preamp in the CODEC. >> >> I suspect if one sets the Windows Sound Options (Control Panel) to >> display dB rather than percentage, the minimum level will be some- >> thing like 16 to 20 dB! That indicated the fixed 20 dB "mic preamp" >> is engaged. >> >> 73, >> >>... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: >> >>> Wayne, >>> >>> There are no beat notes. These frequencies, at least from the FT8 >>> program in Tune mode are single frequency. Based upon output RF spectrum >>> measurements*, with for example 1010 Hz input and 4-5 bars of ALC, I see >>> spurious or intermodulation sidebands, down -65 dBc. If I change nothing >>> else but adjust the tone frequency to 1000 Hz the spectrum is the same but >>> the ALC bars are cyclic, going from none to 4-5, at about the 2 HZ rate >>> Brian reported earlier. (Slow ALC in action?) That's the good news. >>> >>> If I set the tone to 1500 Hz, the FT8 mid-band target, I'm presented >>> with the cyclic ALC and some ~193 Hz, -50 dBc sidebands. >>> >>> I have tried this with both the K3S internal sound card and via Line >>> In/Out into my laptop sound card. The results are more-or-less the same. >>> But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal >>> sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at >>> less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. >>> >>> I would suggest that you do some measurements with a low-distortion sine >>> wave audio source run into the radio to eliminate the possibility that this >>> junk is a result of all of the digitally generated tones. >>> >>> If this (what I will call a) problem continues to exist then I think a >>> fix is in order. Expecting users to select particular frequencies to use >>> to set gain levels isn't an acceptable workaround. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Wes N7WS >>> >>> >>> * My "spectrum analyzer" is my SDR-IQ which I have used to measure TX >>> IMD on both my K3 and K3S. Your IMD >>> measurements on my K3S concurred with mine within 1 dB or less. >>> >>> On 8/4/2017 4:45 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: >>> Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard pitch may be an acceptable workaround. Wayne N6KR On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: > > Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. > > This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some > of us have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking > about? > > Wes, N7WS > > > On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: > >> Here's some followup: >> FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, >> 1500, and 2000 Hz. >> WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, >> 1500 and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). >> >> The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the >> output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 >> filter center frequency has no effect on the above. >> >> 73, >> Brian, K0DTJ >> >> On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: >> >>> I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope >>> today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB >>> soundcard >>> output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode >>> was >>> rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated >>> in >>> time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). >>> At >>> the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a >>> selected 10 watts. >>> >>> Then I changed the c
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Except when the sound card is in the computer instead of the radio, "Line In" is receiving signal from the program via the sound card 'speaker' output, not the microphone. Moving the card into the radio doesn't change this. The only thing changed is it's too darned sensitive. Regards, Wes N7WS On 8/5/2017 9:39 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. Actually, you need to adjust the options in the Windows *.inf file used for the PCM-series CODEC (or use the codec that identifies as line level). Windows is turning on a 20 dB preamp in the CODEC. I suspect if one sets the Windows Sound Options (Control Panel) to display dB rather than percentage, the minimum level will be some- thing like 16 to 20 dB! That indicated the fixed 20 dB "mic preamp" is engaged. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, There are no beat notes. These frequencies, at least from the FT8 program in Tune mode are single frequency. Based upon output RF spectrum measurements*, with for example 1010 Hz input and 4-5 bars of ALC, I see spurious or intermodulation sidebands, down -65 dBc. If I change nothing else but adjust the tone frequency to 1000 Hz the spectrum is the same but the ALC bars are cyclic, going from none to 4-5, at about the 2 HZ rate Brian reported earlier. (Slow ALC in action?) That's the good news. If I set the tone to 1500 Hz, the FT8 mid-band target, I'm presented with the cyclic ALC and some ~193 Hz, -50 dBc sidebands. I have tried this with both the K3S internal sound card and via Line In/Out into my laptop sound card. The results are more-or-less the same. But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. I would suggest that you do some measurements with a low-distortion sine wave audio source run into the radio to eliminate the possibility that this junk is a result of all of the digitally generated tones. If this (what I will call a) problem continues to exist then I think a fix is in order. Expecting users to select particular frequencies to use to set gain levels isn't an acceptable workaround. Regards, Wes N7WS * My "spectrum analyzer" is my SDR-IQ which I have used to measure TX IMD on both my K3 and K3S. Your IMD measurements on my K3S concurred with mine within 1 dB or less. On 8/4/2017 4:45 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard pitch may be an acceptable workaround. Wayne N6KR On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? Wes, N7WS On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: Here's some followup: FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 Hz. WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter center frequency has no effect on the above. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message del
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Joe, are you talking about the wdma_usb.inf file to disable the 20 dB mic boost? I have been searching around for details on making the inf change in Windows 10. I may be missing something in the search, but if you have modified the inf file for Windows 10, I would be really helpful if you have more details. I looked carefully through wdma_usb.inf and I can't see anything obvious. From windows 10 in my case. Max NG7M On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: > >> But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal >> sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at >> less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. >> > > Actually, you need to adjust the options in the Windows *.inf file > used for the PCM-series CODEC (or use the codec that identifies as > line level). Windows is turning on a 20 dB preamp in the CODEC. > > I suspect if one sets the Windows Sound Options (Control Panel) to > display dB rather than percentage, the minimum level will be some- > thing like 16 to 20 dB! That indicated the fixed 20 dB "mic preamp" > is engaged. > > 73, > >... Joe, W4TV > > > On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: > >> Wayne, >> >> There are no beat notes. These frequencies, at least from the FT8 program >> in Tune mode are single frequency. Based upon output RF spectrum >> measurements*, with for example 1010 Hz input and 4-5 bars of ALC, I see >> spurious or intermodulation sidebands, down -65 dBc. If I change nothing >> else but adjust the tone frequency to 1000 Hz the spectrum is the same but >> the ALC bars are cyclic, going from none to 4-5, at about the 2 HZ rate >> Brian reported earlier. (Slow ALC in action?) That's the good news. >> >> If I set the tone to 1500 Hz, the FT8 mid-band target, I'm presented with >> the cyclic ALC and some ~193 Hz, -50 dBc sidebands. >> >> I have tried this with both the K3S internal sound card and via Line >> In/Out into my laptop sound card. The results are more-or-less the same. >> But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal >> sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at >> less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. >> >> I would suggest that you do some measurements with a low-distortion sine >> wave audio source run into the radio to eliminate the possibility that this >> junk is a result of all of the digitally generated tones. >> >> If this (what I will call a) problem continues to exist then I think a >> fix is in order. Expecting users to select particular frequencies to use >> to set gain levels isn't an acceptable workaround. >> >> Regards, >> >> Wes N7WS >> >> >> * My "spectrum analyzer" is my SDR-IQ which I have used to measure TX IMD >> on both my K3 and K3S. Your IMD >> measurements on my K3S concurred with mine within 1 dB or less. >> >> On 8/4/2017 4:45 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: >> >>> Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is >>> what’s modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the >>> standard pitch may be an acceptable workaround. >>> >>> Wayne >>> N6KR >>> >>> >>> On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? Wes, N7WS On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: > Here's some followup: > FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, > 1500, and 2000 Hz. > WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 > and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). > > The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the > output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 > filter center frequency has no effect on the above. > > 73, > Brian, K0DTJ > > On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: > >> I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope >> today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard >> output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was >> rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated >> in >> time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). >> At >> the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a >> selected 10 watts. >> >> Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz >> and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to >> the >> desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) >> that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the >> filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved t
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. Actually, you need to adjust the options in the Windows *.inf file used for the PCM-series CODEC (or use the codec that identifies as line level). Windows is turning on a 20 dB preamp in the CODEC. I suspect if one sets the Windows Sound Options (Control Panel) to display dB rather than percentage, the minimum level will be some- thing like 16 to 20 dB! That indicated the fixed 20 dB "mic preamp" is engaged. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 8/5/2017 11:14 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: Wayne, There are no beat notes. These frequencies, at least from the FT8 program in Tune mode are single frequency. Based upon output RF spectrum measurements*, with for example 1010 Hz input and 4-5 bars of ALC, I see spurious or intermodulation sidebands, down -65 dBc. If I change nothing else but adjust the tone frequency to 1000 Hz the spectrum is the same but the ALC bars are cyclic, going from none to 4-5, at about the 2 HZ rate Brian reported earlier. (Slow ALC in action?) That's the good news. If I set the tone to 1500 Hz, the FT8 mid-band target, I'm presented with the cyclic ALC and some ~193 Hz, -50 dBc sidebands. I have tried this with both the K3S internal sound card and via Line In/Out into my laptop sound card. The results are more-or-less the same. But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. I would suggest that you do some measurements with a low-distortion sine wave audio source run into the radio to eliminate the possibility that this junk is a result of all of the digitally generated tones. If this (what I will call a) problem continues to exist then I think a fix is in order. Expecting users to select particular frequencies to use to set gain levels isn't an acceptable workaround. Regards, Wes N7WS * My "spectrum analyzer" is my SDR-IQ which I have used to measure TX IMD on both my K3 and K3S. Your IMD measurements on my K3S concurred with mine within 1 dB or less. On 8/4/2017 4:45 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard pitch may be an acceptable workaround. Wayne N6KR On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? Wes, N7WS On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: Here's some followup: FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 Hz. WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter center frequency has no effect on the above. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
I agree with Wes on his below statement. Same here exactly. Gene N9TF > > On August 5, 2017 at 10:14 AM Wes Stewart wrote: > > > I have tried this with both the K3S internal sound card and via Line > In/Out into > my laptop sound card. The results are more-or-less the same. But IMHO, you > need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; > it is > way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and > Line > In at 10 or less. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Wayne, There are no beat notes. These frequencies, at least from the FT8 program in Tune mode are single frequency. Based upon output RF spectrum measurements*, with for example 1010 Hz input and 4-5 bars of ALC, I see spurious or intermodulation sidebands, down -65 dBc. If I change nothing else but adjust the tone frequency to 1000 Hz the spectrum is the same but the ALC bars are cyclic, going from none to 4-5, at about the 2 HZ rate Brian reported earlier. (Slow ALC in action?) That's the good news. If I set the tone to 1500 Hz, the FT8 mid-band target, I'm presented with the cyclic ALC and some ~193 Hz, -50 dBc sidebands. I have tried this with both the K3S internal sound card and via Line In/Out into my laptop sound card. The results are more-or-less the same. But IMHO, you need to put a 30 dB attenuator on the input of the internal sound card; it is way too sensitive. I'm having to run the Windows gain at less than 5% and Line In at 10 or less. I would suggest that you do some measurements with a low-distortion sine wave audio source run into the radio to eliminate the possibility that this junk is a result of all of the digitally generated tones. If this (what I will call a) problem continues to exist then I think a fix is in order. Expecting users to select particular frequencies to use to set gain levels isn't an acceptable workaround. Regards, Wes N7WS * My "spectrum analyzer" is my SDR-IQ which I have used to measure TX IMD on both my K3 and K3S. Your IMD measurements on my K3S concurred with mine within 1 dB or less. On 8/4/2017 4:45 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard pitch may be an acceptable workaround. Wayne N6KR On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? Wes, N7WS On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: Here's some followup: FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 Hz. WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter center frequency has no effect on the above. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
The "TUNE" tones from both applications (FLDIGI & WSJT-X) looks like a single frequency and is a pretty decent sine wave on the scope, although "pretty decent" is hard to quantify. It's more like the 500 Hz and its harmonics are beating with some process within the K3. The "pulsing " isn't apparent in the RF output power, at least as far as I can measure, so it may just be an audio artifact. Moving off those frequencies is certainly a work around for setting the audio drive level. 73, Brian, K0DTJ > On Aug 4, 2017, at 16:45, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s > modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard > pitch may be an acceptable workaround. > > Wayne > N6KR >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Is it possible that a beat note between tones (and their harmonics) is what’s modulating the ALC reading? If so, moving the tone slightly off the standard pitch may be an acceptable workaround. Wayne N6KR > On Aug 4, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: > > Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. > > This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us > have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? > > Wes, N7WS > > > On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: >> Here's some followup: >> FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, and >> 2000 Hz. >> WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and >> 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). >> >> The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output >> and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter center >> frequency has no effect on the above. >> >> 73, >> Brian, K0DTJ >> >> On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: >>> I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I >>> had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to >>> the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. >>> Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with >>> the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same >>> time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 >>> watts. >>> >>> Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the >>> "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired >>> 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the >>> default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter >>> center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but >>> couldn't reproduce the "pumping". >>> >>> I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out >>> to the group. >>> >>> 73, >>> Brian, K0DTJ >>> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Good find Brian!!! I see it too in FT8. This probably explains the great variability in results reported. Some of us have a problem, others say, Huh, what the heck are you talking about? Wes, N7WS On 8/4/2017 11:33 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: Here's some followup: FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 Hz. WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter center frequency has no effect on the above. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
A blast from the past, it's been 17 years since I was involved with this stuff. In E1 PCM multi channel voice transmission systems the standard test tone was 1024Hz so as not to interact with the 8kHz sampling rate. This is not a fault but a fact of life. Maybe the designers would care to mention the DSP sampling rate for the TX audio. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 04/08/2017 15:46, Richard Lamont wrote: > On 04/08/17 19:33, Brian Hunt wrote: >> Here's some followup: >> FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, >> and 2000 Hz. >> WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 >> and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). >> >> The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the >> output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 >> filter center frequency has no effect on the above. > > This looks like a beat between the modulating frequency and some > sampling process associated with the ALC meter. > > 73, > Richard G4DYA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
On 04/08/17 19:33, Brian Hunt wrote: > Here's some followup: > FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, > and 2000 Hz. > WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 > and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). > > The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the > output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 > filter center frequency has no effect on the above. This looks like a beat between the modulating frequency and some sampling process associated with the ALC meter. 73, Richard G4DYA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Here's some followup: FLDIGI shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 Hz. WSJT-X 1.8 shows the "pumping" affect with carrier tones of 1000, 1500 and 2000 Hz (couldn't select 500 Hz). The affect is very narrow with frequency. 10 Hz either way and the output and ALC display and MON output is rock solid. Changing the K3 filter center frequency has no effect on the above. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/4/2017 10:58, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
I did a spot sweep in 100 Hz steps from 1000 Hz to 2000 Hz using TUNE function on WSJT-X. I observed, depending on frequency of the tone, the value of ALC indicated does change. This to me indicates the uniformity of the filter does show some ripple across the top. This is normal in my thinking. So when setting levels, select a mid range tone and let the others fall where they may. In any event, you won't be far from the ideal level. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 8/4/2017 1:16 PM, Dave Cole wrote: Please post resultd from WSJT-X, as that is what I am using. I have noted that tune, vs. actual outputs act differently... THANK YOU! 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Please post resultd from WSJT-X, as that is what I am using. I have noted that tune, vs. actual outputs act differently... THANK YOU! 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 08/04/2017 10:58 AM, Brian Hunt wrote: I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/3/2017 13:25, Dave Cole wrote: Hi, I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh ALC returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time span. The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run it to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be some sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 through 5 above. In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
I spent some quality time with my K3, FLDIGI and an oscilloscope today. I had the same problem as described. Looking at my USB soundcard output to the K3, the amplitude of the audio from FLDIGI in TUNE mode was rock solid. Looking at the MON output from the K3, the level oscillated in time with the ALC "pumping" at about 2.4 Hz (timed with a stop watch). At the same time the K3 power output into a dummy load was rock solid at a selected 10 watts. Then I changed the carrier frequency in FLDIGI slightly off 1500 Hz and the "pumping" went away! At 1515 Hz I could easily set the ALC to the desired 4 bars solid, 5th flickering. Then I remembered (and verified) that the default filter center in DATA A mode is 1500 Hz. I changed the filter center frequency to 1450 Hz and moved the FLDIGI frequency around but couldn't reproduce the "pumping". I plan to repeat the same tests with WSJT-X 1.8 but wanted to get this out to the group. 73, Brian, K0DTJ On 8/3/2017 13:25, Dave Cole wrote: Hi, I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh ALC returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time span. The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run it to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be some sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 through 5 above. In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Glenn, That method will give you a bad indication of the power output. Elecraft transceivers use a closed loop power control system - as found in some commercial transceivers, but as far as I know, not in other amateur transceivers. The result is that an Elecraft transceiver (K3, K3S, KX3, KX2 and yes even the K2) will endeavor to provide the power level that was set with the power knob. That can cause some of the transmit gain stages to go to their maximum output limit - which will increase distortion. Set the audio level first as described by Elecraft, and after that, set the power level desired with the power knob. Leave the audio level alone after setting it. Ignore the common internet advice, it does not work well with Elecraft gear. 73, Don W3FPR On 8/4/2017 12:18 PM, Glenn Anderson wrote: OK...so here's how I do it... 1. Press the "tune" button on the K3. 2. Set output power for a convenient reading on your wattmeter (50 watts). Exit "tune" mode. 3. Activate the "tune" function on WSJL or send a test tone from your favorite digital program. 4. Adjust whatever the series of audio controls that you have to make the output power match the value in step 2. 5. Exit test mode. 6. Operate I don't pay any attention to the ALC meter after this point. For the record, mine seems to flash between one and four bars. YMMV Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: Dave Cole [mailto:d...@nk7z.net] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 7:54 AM To: Glenn Anderson ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Hi Glenn, Respectfully, the issue, as already stated a few times, in several messages, is not that no one knows what to adjust, and we are all over thinking how to fix this, but that it is not possible to get the desired results, no matter what one adjusts. I have adjusted all possible combinations of level controls-- LINE IN on the K3, the sound card out on the computer, and the Power Out on WSJT-X, to get to the desired results, and have failed. Given that I am a pretty creative fellow, and spend decades in the Electronics industry, I suspect I am doing this correctly, so no, I am pretty sure this is not a case of over thinking, but of something not visible happening. I just read Ken's post of July 16th, and yes Ken's problem sounds like the same issue I have-- as one approaches the correct settings, the K3 jumps to instantly to 5 bars, skipping 4 bars, or as you lower any input to the K3, the ALC actions simply stops at 5 bars... Then te ALC levels start to pump, while power out stays the same... I have heard this described as Power Hunting before, but in my case, it seems totally disconnected from any power settings I run. I have tried everything from 1 watt to 100 watts, and the behavior never changes. Alas, I fear I will just continue running with a bit of ALC, which I don't want to do... I would like to set it up as per Elecraft recommendations, but that seems impossible. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 08/04/2017 05:11 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: You guys are over-thinking this "issue". Just set whatever combination of level controls it takes to get four solid bars and a flashing fifth on the ALC and get on with it.that works for me. See Y'all on FT8! Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try and answer all here... I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have tried them again today. Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. The power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact if I am in TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... I doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes away if I turn up LINE IN on the K3... I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am prett
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
This is right for most ham transmitters, but wrong for Elecraft. Elecraft transmitters have a closed-loop power control that will try to keep the power at the set level (50 W) regardless of the audio input. 1. Set output power to 0 W and/or use a dummy load. 2. Set WSJT-X to “Tune”, where it will put out a constant tone. 3. Adjust all audio levels, starting at a middle position, until you have 4 bars solid and the 5th flickering. It might not flicker for this solid tone. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Aug 4, 2017, at 9:18 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: > > OK...so here's how I do it... > > 1. Press the "tune" button on the K3. > 2. Set output power for a convenient reading on your wattmeter (50 watts). > Exit "tune" mode. > 3. Activate the "tune" function on WSJL or send a test tone from your > favorite digital program. > 4. Adjust whatever the series of audio controls that you have to make the > output power match the value in step 2. > 5. Exit test mode. > 6. Operate > > I don't pay any attention to the ALC meter after this point. For the record, > mine seems to flash between one and four bars. > > YMMV > > Glenn WB5TUF > > -Original Message- > From: Dave Cole [mailto:d...@nk7z.net] > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 7:54 AM > To: Glenn Anderson ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior > > Hi Glenn, > > Respectfully, the issue, as already stated a few times, in several messages, > is not that no one knows what to adjust, and we are all over thinking how to > fix this, but that it is not possible to get the desired results, no matter > what one adjusts. > > I have adjusted all possible combinations of level controls-- LINE IN on the > K3, the sound card out on the computer, and the Power Out on WSJT-X, to get > to the desired results, and have failed. > > Given that I am a pretty creative fellow, and spend decades in the > Electronics industry, I suspect I am doing this correctly, so no, I am pretty > sure this is not a case of over thinking, but of something not visible > happening. > > I just read Ken's post of July 16th, and yes Ken's problem sounds like the > same issue I have-- as one approaches the correct settings, the K3 jumps to > instantly to 5 bars, skipping 4 bars, or as you lower any input to the K3, > the ALC actions simply stops at 5 bars... Then te ALC levels start to pump, > while power out stays the same... > > I have heard this described as Power Hunting before, but in my case, it seems > totally disconnected from any power settings I run. I have tried everything > from 1 watt to 100 watts, and the behavior never changes. > > Alas, I fear I will just continue running with a bit of ALC, which I don't > want to do... I would like to set it up as per Elecraft recommendations, but > that seems impossible. > > > 73s and thanks, > Dave > NK7Z > http://www.nk7z.net > > On 08/04/2017 05:11 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: >> You guys are over-thinking this "issue". Just set whatever combination >> of level controls it takes to get four solid bars and a flashing fifth >> on the ALC and get on with it.that works for me. >> >> See Y'all on FT8! >> >> Glenn WB5TUF >> >> -Original Message- >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net >> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole >> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:52 PM >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior >> >> Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather >> than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try >> and answer all here... >> >> I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have >> tried them again today. >> >> Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting >> at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. >> >> I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the >> same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going >> between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. >> >> If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and >> acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. >> sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... >> >> No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. >> >> I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and a
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Hi Glen, Thank you for the info, that is essentially what I am doing. I am concerned because it is not as Elecraft recommends for cleanest signal. I will probably go back to operating with number 5 solid, and number 6 flickering... I have been able to not find a solution for this. Many thanks to all who responded to my request. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 08/04/2017 09:18 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: OK...so here's how I do it... 1. Press the "tune" button on the K3. 2. Set output power for a convenient reading on your wattmeter (50 watts). Exit "tune" mode. 3. Activate the "tune" function on WSJL or send a test tone from your favorite digital program. 4. Adjust whatever the series of audio controls that you have to make the output power match the value in step 2. 5. Exit test mode. 6. Operate I don't pay any attention to the ALC meter after this point. For the record, mine seems to flash between one and four bars. YMMV Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: Dave Cole [mailto:d...@nk7z.net] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 7:54 AM To: Glenn Anderson ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Hi Glenn, Respectfully, the issue, as already stated a few times, in several messages, is not that no one knows what to adjust, and we are all over thinking how to fix this, but that it is not possible to get the desired results, no matter what one adjusts. I have adjusted all possible combinations of level controls-- LINE IN on the K3, the sound card out on the computer, and the Power Out on WSJT-X, to get to the desired results, and have failed. Given that I am a pretty creative fellow, and spend decades in the Electronics industry, I suspect I am doing this correctly, so no, I am pretty sure this is not a case of over thinking, but of something not visible happening. I just read Ken's post of July 16th, and yes Ken's problem sounds like the same issue I have-- as one approaches the correct settings, the K3 jumps to instantly to 5 bars, skipping 4 bars, or as you lower any input to the K3, the ALC actions simply stops at 5 bars... Then te ALC levels start to pump, while power out stays the same... I have heard this described as Power Hunting before, but in my case, it seems totally disconnected from any power settings I run. I have tried everything from 1 watt to 100 watts, and the behavior never changes. Alas, I fear I will just continue running with a bit of ALC, which I don't want to do... I would like to set it up as per Elecraft recommendations, but that seems impossible. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 08/04/2017 05:11 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: You guys are over-thinking this "issue". Just set whatever combination of level controls it takes to get four solid bars and a flashing fifth on the ALC and get on with it.that works for me. See Y'all on FT8! Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try and answer all here... I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have tried them again today. Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. The power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact if I am in TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... I doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes away if I turn up LINE IN on the K3... I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am pretty sure it is an artifact of something happening in the K3, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This l
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
OK...so here's how I do it... 1. Press the "tune" button on the K3. 2. Set output power for a convenient reading on your wattmeter (50 watts). Exit "tune" mode. 3. Activate the "tune" function on WSJL or send a test tone from your favorite digital program. 4. Adjust whatever the series of audio controls that you have to make the output power match the value in step 2. 5. Exit test mode. 6. Operate I don't pay any attention to the ALC meter after this point. For the record, mine seems to flash between one and four bars. YMMV Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: Dave Cole [mailto:d...@nk7z.net] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 7:54 AM To: Glenn Anderson ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Hi Glenn, Respectfully, the issue, as already stated a few times, in several messages, is not that no one knows what to adjust, and we are all over thinking how to fix this, but that it is not possible to get the desired results, no matter what one adjusts. I have adjusted all possible combinations of level controls-- LINE IN on the K3, the sound card out on the computer, and the Power Out on WSJT-X, to get to the desired results, and have failed. Given that I am a pretty creative fellow, and spend decades in the Electronics industry, I suspect I am doing this correctly, so no, I am pretty sure this is not a case of over thinking, but of something not visible happening. I just read Ken's post of July 16th, and yes Ken's problem sounds like the same issue I have-- as one approaches the correct settings, the K3 jumps to instantly to 5 bars, skipping 4 bars, or as you lower any input to the K3, the ALC actions simply stops at 5 bars... Then te ALC levels start to pump, while power out stays the same... I have heard this described as Power Hunting before, but in my case, it seems totally disconnected from any power settings I run. I have tried everything from 1 watt to 100 watts, and the behavior never changes. Alas, I fear I will just continue running with a bit of ALC, which I don't want to do... I would like to set it up as per Elecraft recommendations, but that seems impossible. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 08/04/2017 05:11 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: > You guys are over-thinking this "issue". Just set whatever combination > of level controls it takes to get four solid bars and a flashing fifth > on the ALC and get on with it.that works for me. > > See Y'all on FT8! > > Glenn WB5TUF > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:52 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior > > Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather > than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try > and answer all here... > > I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have > tried them again today. > > Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting > at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. > > I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the > same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going > between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. > > If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and > acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. > sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... > > No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. > > I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. >The power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact > if I am in TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... > > Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... > > I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... >I doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes > away if I turn up LINE IN on the K3... > > I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am pretty > sure it is an artifact of something happening in the K3, but for the > life of me I can't figure it out. > > 73s and thanks, > Dave > NK7Z > http://www.nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to &
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Hi Glenn, Respectfully, the issue, as already stated a few times, in several messages, is not that no one knows what to adjust, and we are all over thinking how to fix this, but that it is not possible to get the desired results, no matter what one adjusts. I have adjusted all possible combinations of level controls-- LINE IN on the K3, the sound card out on the computer, and the Power Out on WSJT-X, to get to the desired results, and have failed. Given that I am a pretty creative fellow, and spend decades in the Electronics industry, I suspect I am doing this correctly, so no, I am pretty sure this is not a case of over thinking, but of something not visible happening. I just read Ken's post of July 16th, and yes Ken's problem sounds like the same issue I have-- as one approaches the correct settings, the K3 jumps to instantly to 5 bars, skipping 4 bars, or as you lower any input to the K3, the ALC actions simply stops at 5 bars... Then te ALC levels start to pump, while power out stays the same... I have heard this described as Power Hunting before, but in my case, it seems totally disconnected from any power settings I run. I have tried everything from 1 watt to 100 watts, and the behavior never changes. Alas, I fear I will just continue running with a bit of ALC, which I don't want to do... I would like to set it up as per Elecraft recommendations, but that seems impossible. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 08/04/2017 05:11 AM, Glenn Anderson wrote: You guys are over-thinking this "issue". Just set whatever combination of level controls it takes to get four solid bars and a flashing fifth on the ALC and get on with it.that works for me. See Y'all on FT8! Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try and answer all here... I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have tried them again today. Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. The power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact if I am in TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... I doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes away if I turn up LINE IN on the K3... I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am pretty sure it is an artifact of something happening in the K3, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wb5...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
You guys are over-thinking this "issue". Just set whatever combination of level controls it takes to get four solid bars and a flashing fifth on the ALC and get on with it.that works for me. See Y'all on FT8! Glenn WB5TUF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Cole Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try and answer all here... I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have tried them again today. Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. The power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact if I am in TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... I doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes away if I turn up LINE IN on the K3... I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am pretty sure it is an artifact of something happening in the K3, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wb5...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Don't drop this thread Wayne! Theirs something we can all learn about here!! Ken.. G0ORH Sent from my iPad > On 4 Aug 2017, at 05:52, Dave Cole wrote: > > Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather than > answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try and answer all > here... > > I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have tried > them again today. > > Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting at 27, > and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. > > I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the same > behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going between those > conditions about once or twice a second randomly. > > If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and acts > just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. sits at 5 bars, > and the 6th flashes... > > No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. > > I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. The > power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact if I am in > TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... > > Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... > > I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... I > doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes away if I > turn up LINE IN on the K3... > > I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am pretty sure it > is an artifact of something happening in the K3, but for the life of me I > can't figure it out. > > 73s and thanks, > Dave > NK7Z > http://www.nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to g0...@sky.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Thanks to all for the sheer number and breadth of answers... Rather than answer each one, and create a huge number of posts, I will try and answer all here... I have done all the steps outlined i the posts here before, and have tried them again today. Output from the computer is sitting dead center, line in was sitting at 27, and the power slider on WSJT-X is sitting at 4/5th full. I took a different sound card program, (MixW in RTTY), and I got the same behavior at 5 bars, the meter shows 5 bars, or no bars going between those conditions about once or twice a second randomly. If I increase ANY of the audio controls it drops out of that mode, and acts just as Elecraft say to set things, just one bar higher, i.e. sits at 5 bars, and the 6th flashes... No combination I can create of the input, or output controls will stop this. I also tried adjusting the power controls set a 1 watt, and at 50 watts. The power control makes zero difference in how it behaves. In fact if I am in TEST TRANSMIT mode the problem shows... Listening to the computer output via MON-- sounds perfect... I may next get the scope out again, and start looking at things again... I doubt it is the sound card changing levels because the issue goes away if I turn up LINE IN on the K3... I am still at a loss as to what is causing this issue. I am pretty sure it is an artifact of something happening in the K3, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Hi, I’ve seen the same behavior when running digital modes on my KX3. It seems like maybe it does that (dropping to zero) when overdriven? Just a guess. — Regards, Devin / K6DRS > On Aug 3, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > > Hi, > > I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of > ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. > > I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn > things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC > starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... > > That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh ALC > returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time span. > > The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run it > to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be some > sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... > > I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: > > 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. > 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. > 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. > 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. > 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. > 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 through > 5 above. > > In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does > not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take > the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? > > A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 > ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable > from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... > > -- > 73s and thanks, > Dave > NK7Z > http://www.nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to devin.butterfi...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Better yet, just turn on the MON function on the radio and listen to the tones. They must be perfectly clear and clean.And yes, I've found that over driving the sound card will do really funny things to the ALC and its display.Start low and work your way up. Remember there are 3 places that likely need adjusting, not just one. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 8/3/2017 6:03 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote: Hi Dave, I was about to write about overdriving your Elecraft transceiver via the computer sound card output and what that can do to the ALC readout (for me on my kx3: cause the ALC meter to display nothing), but it sounds like you are already aware of this fact and have tried to adjust so that you achieve 4-5 bars. Not sure what OS you are running, but it doesn't matter really I guess. Do you know if any of the sounds the OS makes are directed through the same sound card as you send your JT65 transmissions? A long shot to be sure as I think you are able to recreate this situation whenever and you have some regularity to the issue you are seeing. Have you tried to hook-up a small speaker to the sound card output and listen to what is transmitted to see if the tones are a constant volume or do you hear drop-outs interspersed throughout the transmit period? regards, Brian VE3IBW _ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
In RTTY are you using FSK or AFSK? I'm surprised that you find the SPEAKER level at 100% as necessary. Of course different sound card in computers behave differently. Also the Line In at 4 sounds awfully low. I'd think more toward mid way is better with better resolution in regard to level changes.Perhaps down with the SPEAKER level and up with the Line In level on the K3. All of this is not just setting a matter of levels.it is a balancing act where they all must be in the correct range to finesse performance. 73 Bob, On 8/3/2017 6:00 PM, Steve Lund wrote: Dave, I have exactly the same problem. For me it does not occur with RTTY. That seems to be solid. JT65 and FT8 really show the problem. When the problem occurs I can often make a RTTY transmission and suddenly the ALC shows for FT8/JT65. I have multiple soundcards in my computer and in theory the windows 'sounds' are going to another soundcard. But, it has always seemed like the problem occurs after I've gone on the internet and a website has sound on it. I'm going to try K4TAX's solution. When 'working' my K3 Line In is 4 or so; WSJT-X is 70% and Speaker is 100%. Let us know if you get a stable solution. Steve, K6UM On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Dave Cole wrote: __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Steve, Those settings are too extreme - they need to be more mid-range. Set the K3 LINE IN gain to something mid-range (about 30), then reduce the soundcard and WSJT-X settings to about 50% and give it a try. Adjust the computer soundcard and WSJT-X settings to produce 4 bars on the ALC meter, then fine-tune the adjustment with the K3 LINE IN gain. If you use other digital modes in addition to WSJT-X, pick one without the application slider to adjust the soundcard only for the 4 bars with the 5th flickering. If you do that, then go back to WSJT-X and adjust its slider to give you the 4 bars with the 5th bar flickering. Remember the soundcard and WSJT-X settings for the next time. The problem is that WSJT-X tries to make it "easy" for most transceivers which will use the audio level to control the power output. That does not work well with Elecraft transceivers which will try continuously to adjust the drive level to produce the power output set by the POWER knob. The result with insufficient audio is "Power hunting". With Elecraft gear, set the audio level correctly - leave it there - and adjust the desired power with the POWER knob. In other words, ignore the internet and often the application software instructions which typically say to set the power to the maximum and adjust the power with the audio level. That just does not work with Elecraft gear which uses a different (and better) power control system. That applies to all soundcard data modes, and is not unique to WSJT-X. 73, Don W3FPR On 8/3/2017 7:00 PM, Steve Lund wrote: Dave, I have exactly the same problem. For me it does not occur with RTTY. That seems to be solid. JT65 and FT8 really show the problem. When the problem occurs I can often make a RTTY transmission and suddenly the ALC shows for FT8/JT65. I have multiple soundcards in my computer and in theory the windows 'sounds' are going to another soundcard. But, it has always seemed like the problem occurs after I've gone on the internet and a website has sound on it. I'm going to try K4TAX's solution. When 'working' my K3 Line In is 4 or so; WSJT-X is 70% and Speaker is 100%. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Hi Dave, I was about to write about overdriving your Elecraft transceiver via the computer sound card output and what that can do to the ALC readout (for me on my kx3: cause the ALC meter to display nothing), but it sounds like you are already aware of this fact and have tried to adjust so that you achieve 4-5 bars. Not sure what OS you are running, but it doesn't matter really I guess. Do you know if any of the sounds the OS makes are directed through the same sound card as you send your JT65 transmissions? A long shot to be sure as I think you are able to recreate this situation whenever and you have some regularity to the issue you are seeing. Have you tried to hook-up a small speaker to the sound card output and listen to what is transmitted to see if the tones are a constant volume or do you hear drop-outs interspersed throughout the transmit period? regards, Brian VE3IBW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Dave, I have exactly the same problem. For me it does not occur with RTTY. That seems to be solid. JT65 and FT8 really show the problem. When the problem occurs I can often make a RTTY transmission and suddenly the ALC shows for FT8/JT65. I have multiple soundcards in my computer and in theory the windows 'sounds' are going to another soundcard. But, it has always seemed like the problem occurs after I've gone on the internet and a website has sound on it. I'm going to try K4TAX's solution. When 'working' my K3 Line In is 4 or so; WSJT-X is 70% and Speaker is 100%. Let us know if you get a stable solution. Steve, K6UM On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > Hi, > > I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar > of ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. > > I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn > things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the > ALC starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... > > That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh > ALC returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time > span. > > The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run > it to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be > some sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... > > I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: > > 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. > 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. > 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. > 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. > 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. > 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 > through 5 above. > > In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does > not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take > the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? > > A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 > ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable > from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... > > -- > 73s and thanks, > Dave > NK7Z > http://www.nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to k6um.el...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
There's actually 3 places in the system where the audio level for
transmit must be adjusted correctly.
(a) SPEAKER - Just left click on the speaker ICON and set the level
for about 35%. Or right click on the speaker ICON, then select
Playback devices. Click on the one being used, normally Speakers USB
Audio CODEC, select this and then select Properties and then Levels.
You can adjust the level from here. Again about -18 dB although your
level may vary.
(b) The PWR slider on WSJT-X -- I find this to run about 50% to 75%
however {see C below}
(c) The Line Gain in the K3S. I use a value of 30.
All three of the above will affect the ALC number of bars. If any of
the values are at either the extreme minimum or extreme maximum values,
you'll likely have somewhat a challenge in getting the levels correct
and stable.
Also be advised if you should use the computer of other reasons which
require support of the audio system, you may find that the levels have
changed. No fault of the radio, no fault of the WSJT-X application but
just the way Windows works. Just remember the approximate values and
where to change and set them.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 8/3/2017 4:14 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
Welcome to the club. I don't know what it is, but it is.
See my post "Soundcard levels" from July 16.
Maybe with your complaint there will be a response.
BTW, TX Test doesn't guarantee zero output. I have another thread
about that.
Crickets.
Wes N7WS
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Lower the drive level from windows. This will give you more control of the LinIn level on the K3(S). Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Aug 3, 2017, at 4:25 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > > Hi, > > I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of > ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. > > I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn > things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC > starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... > > That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh ALC > returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time span. > > The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run it > to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be some > sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... > > I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: > > 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. > 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. > 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. > 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. > 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. > 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 through > 5 above. > > In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does > not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take > the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? > > A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 > ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable > from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... > > -- > 73s and thanks, > Dave > NK7Z > http://www.nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n...@widomaker.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Dave, Set the K3 LINE IN gain for a midrange value. It has more resolution there than at either a high or a low setting. Then adjust the soundcard to obtain about 4 bars on the ALC meter and "fine tune" that level with the LINE IN gain to get the 5th bar to flicker. Note that this is the NO ALC point for the K3 - ALC action does not start until the 5th bar. The first 4 bars are there to help you adjust the audio. Too much audio from the sondcard can cause at least part of what you are describing. Are you using the 'speaker' output instead of LINE OUT on the soundcard. If speaker is your only choice see if you can set it for headphones or amplified speakers. I had a similar problem at Field Day this year - we were going to use the logging computer for digital modes, but could not get the soundcard in that computer to work - we pressed my laptop into service, but it has no line in, and I did not bring an external soundcard along - had to use one that another person had. The output on that soundcard was so high, I had trouble adjusting levels. We finally put an attenuator in the soundcard output to tame things. It was still too much audio, but we managed with 4 bars of ALC, but if we tried to get the 5th bar to flicker, it would light all the way and sometimes the 6th bar would also light up. 73, Don W3FPR On 8/3/2017 4:25 PM, Dave Cole wrote: Hi, I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Welcome to the club. I don't know what it is, but it is. See my post "Soundcard levels" from July 16. Maybe with your complaint there will be a response. BTW, TX Test doesn't guarantee zero output. I have another thread about that. Crickets. Wes N7WS On 8/3/2017 1:25 PM, Dave Cole wrote: Hi, I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh ALC returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time span. The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run it to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be some sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 through 5 above. In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] K3: Odd ALC behavior
Hi, I have an issue in regards to obtaining 4 bars, and getting the 5th bar of ALC to fluctuate while transmitting JT65. I have plenty of audio, and can drive the ALC to 6 or more bars if I turn things up. However, as I get to 4 bars with the 5th flashing a bit, the ALC starts to fluctuate between nothing and 4 or 5 bars... That is to say, the ALC just goes to zero, no visible ALC, and then teh ALC returns to 4 or 5 bars. This happens across a one or two second time span. The ALC is at zero more than it is above zero most of the time. If I run it to five bars, with the fifth fluctuating, all is well, there seems to be some sort of threshold at the 5th bar of ALC... I have tried a number of things to try and triage this... For instance: 1. Running in "Transmit Test" mode to eliminate RF feedback. 2. Upping the audio level feeding the K3. 3. Reducing the audio level feeding the K3. 4. Upping the line in on the K3 setup. 5. Reducing the Line in on the K3 setup. 6. Adjustment of the WSJT-X output level control, under conditions 2 through 5 above. In all cases the above described behavior of the ALC dropping to zero does not change in any way if I am at 5 or less bars. That is to say, if I take the ALC level to 4 bars, it starts dropping to zero more than not... Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be? A a bit of history-- the computer and sound card were used on an Icom 756 ProIII, and there was never an issue like this... The ALC was adjustable from zero to too much on the Icom, with no dropouts... -- 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
