Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Barry w...@comcast.net wrote: I really don't think this topic should be K3 CW Issues. It seems to me that it has become a discussion of personal preferences and old war stories about keyer types and other nostalgia, so I'll join the fray... I don't remember when I started using a keyer, but I'm pretty sure it was around 1981 and that it was an MFJ keyer. I remember that at that time I had a friend, N5SW (no longer a ham) who had a keyer named the TO Keyer. I had a lot of fun with him calling it the Too Old keyer. Maybe some of you have seen one of those keyers. I'll bet they're quite a collector's item these days. At about the same time I bought my black Bencher paddles that I still use when mobile. The shack has the newer chrome plated one now. ;o) I'have always used the B type iambic keying. Try it you'll like it once you have mastered it, but as others have said, it takes a little practice. BT 73 ES GUD LUK DE N5GE, QCWA LIFE MEMBER 35102, LICENSED SINCE 1976 AR SK n...@n5ge.com http://www.n5ge.com Thank you for the intro Doug :.) I'll give Mode B a try in the K3. If it isn't to my liking, I'll just hook up one of my many external keyers. Speaking of the HST and Ultimatic (from K2AV's post) I used Ultimatic in the competition in the numbers-only run. I was much less prone to errors than true Iambic. The only other person I know who uses Ultimatic routinely is W5ZL, who also participated in the HST in LZ last year. Barry W2UP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
My K2 internal keyer can not achieve a correct weight (50% duty cycle of dots). The minimum setting of 90 is still too heavy, except for at low speeds, where its acceptable. Anyone else having observed this, or is this just my K2? I am using external keyers (CMOS Super keyer and Winkeyer) for my K2 and K3 anyway, so really don't bother. Just being curious. 73, OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af Fred Jensen Sendt: 21. september 2010 01:09 Til: Elecraft Reflector Emne: Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues On 9/20/2010 3:24 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: I agree with the comment about Iambic A vs B option. I really couldn't stand the keyer (at first) until I swapped from A to B (or was it from B to A?). Now, smooth as silk and nothing is every missed. Of course, that was years ago now (one of my K3s is first run). I have always run Mode A from the time that Iambic came along, I can't manage the extra dit that Mode B inserts. Nor have I ever mastered the fine art of squeezing gently. Too old I guess. I get perfect keying from my K3 using the HexKey, and so far as I know, it has never burped, belched, or stuttered. I have ... but not the radio. In contests when running N1MM with a USB WinKey, I use the K3 internal keyer for fills and requests and I've never experienced a problem there either even though N1MM is polling the radio. My K2 exhibits a very tiny, just noticeable occasional irregularity but it is very rare and not a problem. Incidentally, the HexKey is markedly smoother and better than either of my two vanilla Benchers with the spring. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - Celebrating our 40th year on the air - Look for stations signing /40 - Info at www.nccc.cc/40th __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
Heck, keyers went way back into the late 40's, if I recall correctly.. I played around with a two 12au7 HB tube keyer in 1960. The tubes worked fine but the output keying relay was a real problem. One had to adjust contact spacing and spring tension on the relay to get it to work. It really didn't work very well above 25 wpm. Paddle was a bug with a rubber band on the dit arm and rewired dash contacts. The W9TO keyer came along in the same era. The relay problem was solved by using a sealed mercury whetted relay. It could do 65 WPM. It had an awful sounding sawtooth monitor.. Later I sprung for a single lever ELKEY paddle Kept it about 25 years until the Curtis single IC keyer came along. I built that into my TS-520 and published an article in CQ about the mod. To my knowledge it was the first within rig keyer. Then came a multi IC HB keyboard keyer. That was wonderful. It had a few memories. Then came computers and computer keyboard keying with HB coding and logging on a Radio Shack computer. I finally ended up abandoning keyboard keying in favor of a pico keyer mounted right on the 40 year old single lever paddle.. Pico keyer for ragchewing and fills, computer keying for contests. Never made the change to a two lever paddle. Doubt I'll ever do it. BTW Iambic A on a single lever keyer also has the extra dit problem. I must use iambic B. It has been interesting. 73 de Brian/K3KO. The key paddle was a bug with the dit arm constrained by a rubber band and the dash paddle rewired to have an independent connection. On 9/21/2010 2:13 AM, Radio Amateur N5GE wrote: On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Barryw...@comcast.net wrote: I really don't think this topic should be K3 CW Issues. It seems to me that it has become a discussion of personal preferences and old war stories about keyer types and other nostalgia, so I'll join the fray... I don't remember when I started using a keyer, but I'm pretty sure it was around 1981 and that it was an MFJ keyer. I remember that at that time I had a friend, N5SW (no longer a ham) who had a keyer named the TO Keyer. I had a lot of fun with him calling it the Too Old keyer. Maybe some of you have seen one of those keyers. I'll bet they're quite a collector's item these days. At about the same time I bought my black Bencher paddles that I still use when mobile. The shack has the newer chrome plated one now. ;o) I'have always used the B type iambic keying. Try it you'll like it once you have mastered it, but as others have said, it takes a little practice. BT 73 ES GUD LUK DE N5GE, QCWA LIFE MEMBER 35102, LICENSED SINCE 1976 AR SK n...@n5ge.com http://www.n5ge.com Thank you for the intro Doug :.) I'll give Mode B a try in the K3. If it isn't to my liking, I'll just hook up one of my many external keyers. Speaking of the HST and Ultimatic (from K2AV's post) I used Ultimatic in the competition in the numbers-only run. I was much less prone to errors than true Iambic. The only other person I know who uses Ultimatic routinely is W5ZL, who also participated in the HST in LZ last year. Barry W2UP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3148 - Release Date: 09/20/10 13:04:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
True, but this wasn't about those keyers. It was about the variations in the logic used in modern iambic keyers with dot and dash memories. And even those variations didn't become an issue until keyers were built into rigs. Fortunately, virtually all keyers today use one of two basic logic modes, so it's pretty easy to figure out which one works, once the operator realizes there *is* a difference. This wasn't the first time someone thought a keyer was defective because they stumbled across one using the mode they hadn't used in the past. It was a good question to raise. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Heck, keyers went way back into the late 40's, if I recall correctly... 73 de Brian/K3KO. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
But even the Curtis-like keyers using the SAME mode (a or b) have slight timing differences. Believe me, I'm always trying to simplify my station, but I am keeping my Logikey. On 9/21/2010 8:35 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: True, but this wasn't about those keyers. It was about the variations in the logic used in modern iambic keyers with dot and dash memories. And even those variations didn't become an issue until keyers were built into rigs. Fortunately, virtually all keyers today use one of two basic logic modes, so it's pretty easy to figure out which one works, once the operator realizes there *is* a difference. This wasn't the first time someone thought a keyer was defective because they stumbled across one using the mode they hadn't used in the past. It was a good question to raise. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Heck, keyers went way back into the late 40's, if I recall correctly... 73 de Brian/K3KO. -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
Hmmm ... I'm a 99% CW operator and I find the K3's built-in keyer to be excellent, free of misfires and glitches for the most part. I'd use one of my fine external keyers if there was a need, but there's not. Over the years I've used the Accu-Keyer, the AEA Contester, and the Super CMOS II, all fine keyers, and I find the K3's keyer to have a very similar feel. I will say that I have had the K3's keyer misfire or hesitate while the K3 was being bombarded with serial interchanges from HRD and/or N1MM. This surprised me because I thought the keyer would have a very high priority. But it hasn't happened in many months and may have been a glitch since eliminated in either the K3 or the external software I was using. 73- Nick, WA5BDU On 9/20/2010 10:01 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: Nevertheless, with my TS-870 and its built-in Accukeyer I send nearly flawless CW. With the K3---well if I haven't programmed the message with the utility, I don't send it. --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Barryw...@comcast.net wrote: For many years, I've used the Island keyer II (in CMOS Superkeyer III emulation mode), the CMOS Superkeyer III, and prior to that the VVF Accu-keyer. I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits, __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
I agree with the comment about Iambic A vs B option. I really couldn't stand the keyer (at first) until I swapped from A to B (or was it from B to A?). Now, smooth as silk and nothing is every missed. Of course, that was years ago now (one of my K3s is first run). For those of you who don't know, Barry is one of the HST guys who does a bazillion wpm in his sleep. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
On 9/20/2010 3:24 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: I agree with the comment about Iambic A vs B option. I really couldn't stand the keyer (at first) until I swapped from A to B (or was it from B to A?). Now, smooth as silk and nothing is every missed. Of course, that was years ago now (one of my K3s is first run). I have always run Mode A from the time that Iambic came along, I can't manage the extra dit that Mode B inserts. Nor have I ever mastered the fine art of squeezing gently. Too old I guess. I get perfect keying from my K3 using the HexKey, and so far as I know, it has never burped, belched, or stuttered. I have ... but not the radio. In contests when running N1MM with a USB WinKey, I use the K3 internal keyer for fills and requests and I've never experienced a problem there either even though N1MM is polling the radio. My K2 exhibits a very tiny, just noticeable occasional irregularity but it is very rare and not a problem. Incidentally, the HexKey is markedly smoother and better than either of my two vanilla Benchers with the spring. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - Celebrating our 40th year on the air - Look for stations signing /40 - Info at www.nccc.cc/40th __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: I agree with the comment about Iambic A vs B option. I really couldn't stand the keyer (at first) until I swapped from A to B (or was it from B to A?). Now, smooth as silk and nothing is every missed. Of course, that was years ago now (one of my K3s is first run). For those of you who don't know, Barry is one of the HST guys who does a bazillion wpm in his sleep. de Doug KR2Q Thank you for the intro Doug :.) I'll give Mode B a try in the K3. If it isn't to my liking, I'll just hook up one of my many external keyers. Speaking of the HST and Ultimatic (from K2AV's post) I used Ultimatic in the competition in the numbers-only run. I was much less prone to errors than true Iambic. The only other person I know who uses Ultimatic routinely is W5ZL, who also participated in the HST in LZ last year. Barry W2UP -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-CW-keyer-issues-tp5552553p5552891.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
That's certainly the thing to do, Barry, but most operators have found the Elecraft keyers work FB once they figure out which mode they already know ;-) I built an Accukeyer back in the 70's and used it until I got the K2 and had to go through the same process. But the K2 and K3 keyers work FB for me in Mode A . Just for fun I tried Mode B and found myself stumbling all over the place, Hi! It would be worth a comment here if you find neither mode works for you. Wayne and Eric are *always* interested in customer feedback. Ron AC7AC I'll give Mode B a try in the K3. If it isn't to my liking, I'll just hook up one of my many external keyers. Speaking of the HST and Ultimatic (from K2AV's post) I used Ultimatic in the competition in the numbers-only run. I was much less prone to errors than true Iambic. The only other person I know who uses Ultimatic routinely is W5ZL, who also participated in the HST in LZ last year. Barry W2UP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
OK, made a QSO after switching to mode B and it's perfect. Tnx all. Still working my way through the manual and have a long way to go. Of course I had to try the radio before reading it :.) 73, Barry W2UP On 9/20/2010 8:05 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: That's certainly the thing to do, Barry, but most operators have found the Elecraft keyers work FB once they figure out which mode they already know ;-) I built an Accukeyer back in the 70's and used it until I got the K2 and had to go through the same process. But the K2 and K3 keyers work FB for me in Mode A . Just for fun I tried Mode B and found myself stumbling all over the place, Hi! It would be worth a comment here if you find neither mode works for you. Wayne and Eric are *always* interested in customer feedback. Ron AC7AC I'll give Mode B a try in the K3. If it isn't to my liking, I'll just hook up one of my many external keyers. Speaking of the HST and Ultimatic (from K2AV's post) I used Ultimatic in the competition in the numbers-only run. I was much less prone to errors than true Iambic. The only other person I know who uses Ultimatic routinely is W5ZL, who also participated in the HST in LZ last year. Barry W2UP -- Barry Kutner, W2UP Lakewood, CO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
Hi all. I started to learn on a PicoKeyer and now that I got the K1 I am finishing my learning on that. I am hoping that the keyer in the K3 is some what the same as the K1 so when I get the K3 there won't be all that much of a difference. Does anyone know if they are similar? I am hoping it would be a smooth transition :-) Is the K2 keyer similar too? Thanks. 73 de W2EEC Eric __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 CW keyer issues
Eric, I always used PicoKeyers in the past . I have no problem with the keyer in my K1 or K2. No need to worry. George/W2BPI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 CW keyer
Iambic keying is a relic of tube keyers where flip flops were used to generate alternating dots/dashes. Ultimatic keying where the last paddle closed takes command is much more user friendly. Looks like I shall have to drive the K3 with my external keyer pity. John G3JAG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer
Forgive my ignorance, but how many other commercial rigs have ultimatic keying? JACrux wrote: Iambic keying is a relic of tube keyers where flip flops were used to generate alternating dots/dashes. Ultimatic keying where the last paddle closed takes command is much more user friendly. Looks like I shall have to drive the K3 with my external keyer pity. John G3JAG -- Blog: http://thek3ngreport.blogspot.com/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW keyer
The Ultimatic keyer dates back to at least 1953, and was done with a 12AU7 according to a bibliography of QST articles. Jackson Harbor offers it in their keyer chips, and K1EL's K12 keyer chip does as well, so any rig that uses either of thses (OHR for example) offers it as an option. Leigh/WA5ZNU On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 8:39 am, Goody K3NG wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but how many other commercial rigs have ultimatic keying? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
