Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

If I can make good enough progress with my current SSTV / HamDRM work then 
I'll put this together late March 2008. This is the only approach that will 
work properly, initially it will be for CAT support only, that is it will 
not be designed for DTR / RTS toggling etc. which we don't need with the K3 
anyway. It will work with W2K / XP / VISTA, the limitation being N8VB's 
serial cable code which does work on W2K I think (I know it works on XP and 
VISTA).


I'll think about making source code available - I use 3rd-party programming 
libraries which I cannot ship (www.codejock.com) but were anyone to obtain 
these they could recompile.


Also I'll think about having read-only access - some programs like to watch 
all data being read from the radio, for example (I think) StepIR and some 
amplifiers such as that one from Italy - Expert-something-1K.


Speaking of amplifiers...

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--
From: "Barry N1EU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


We need a solution like N8LP and HB9DRV have been talking about lately.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Jerry Flanders]

At 04:35 AM 2/15/2008, Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:
Actually I gave some thought to this project this morning, 
specifically allowing many programs simultaneous and transparent 
access to a K3 where the programs talk K3 CAT.


My conclusion is that it's easy, the hard part having been written 
already by Phil N8VB, specifically his virtual serial cables. I have 
all the code I need for this, once running programs such as DXLab, 
the CW Skimmer program etc. would just connect to a virtual serial 
port such as COM22. I see no show-stoppers, performance would be / 
could be excellent.


A few weeks ago I needed to have one serial output feed several 
serial inputs and assumed that N8VB's VCOM could be set up as a 
virtual Y" cable to allow this, but was not able to get it to work - 
it would allow only one output per input. If there is a way, I would 
like to know how - I still need this functionality.


Jerry W4UK 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Barry N1EU]

I doubt that any of the popular contest logging programs (e.g. N1MM Logger,
Writelog) are going to work with Omni-Rig.  Omni-Rig does not expose a
transparent serial port interface that would make all of a rig's CAT
commands accessible to multiple (unmodified) programs.  Omni-Rig requires
using a COM/OLE programming interface to send the rig most CAT commands.

We need a solution like N8LP and HB9DRV have been talking about lately.


73,
Barry N1EU



Tom AK2B wrote:
> 
> "Software that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to
> learn to play with each other.  Developers have to stop writing code
> assuming there isn't a need for other software to also simultaneously
> interface with the rig.  Standards have to be developed and quickly
> adopted that will facilitate exposing the rig's entire CAT functionality
> to any number of programs while still preserving CAT responsiveness during
> fast paced contesting. 
> 
> 73,
> Barry N1EU"
> 
> When you set up the CAT section of CW Skimmer you are using a program
> called Omni-Rig. Omni-Rig is Alex’s (VE3NEA) attempt at providing a
> universal control for several programs to use the same COM (Component
> Object Module) interface and the same serial port. Each radio is
> represented by an .INI file that can be created by the user if one doesn’t
> already exist. It is a fairly simple interface that works well with the
> K3, CW Skimmer and MixW (the only ones I’ve used). There are several
> software companies that already support Omni-Rig.
> http://www.dxatlas.com/OmniRig/  You can download client software to test
> commands for the K3 and get further information.
> 
> Tom, AK2B
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Tom AK2B]

"Software that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn
to play with each other.  Developers have to stop writing code assuming
there isn't a need for other software to also simultaneously interface with
the rig.  Standards have to be developed and quickly adopted that will
facilitate exposing the rig's entire CAT functionality to any number of
programs while still preserving CAT responsiveness during fast paced
contesting. 

73,
Barry N1EU"

When you set up the CAT section of CW Skimmer you are using a program called
Omni-Rig. Omni-Rig is Alex’s (VE3NEA) attempt at providing a universal
control for several programs to use the same COM (Component Object Module)
interface and the same serial port. Each radio is represented by an .INI
file that can be created by the user if one doesn’t already exist. It is a
fairly simple interface that works well with the K3, CW Skimmer and MixW
(the only ones I’ve used). There are several software companies that already
support Omni-Rig. http://www.dxatlas.com/OmniRig/  You can download client
software to test commands for the K3 and get further information.

Tom, AK2B




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[Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Barry McWilliams]

Speaking of the K3's computer interface - I've noticed that no K3 
responses are generated for the following K3 front panel buttons: RIT, 
XIT, AGC OFF, DUAL PB, NB, NR and NTCH.  Also, the response for XFIL is 
always "FW".  I am using the most recent firmware.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

Actually I gave some thought to this project this morning, specifically 
allowing many programs simultaneous and transparent access to a K3 where the 
programs talk K3 CAT.


My conclusion is that it's easy, the hard part having been written already 
by Phil N8VB, specifically his virtual serial cables. I have all the code I 
need for this, once running programs such as DXLab, the CW Skimmer program 
etc. would just connect to a virtual serial port such as COM22. I see no 
show-stoppers, performance would be / could be excellent.


It is very tempting to write this, maybe after the SSTV / HamDRM and WSJT 
code is sorted out in one of my projects. I see that it would be of great 
benefit to the K3 community, especially the users who are able to run two or 
more programs at once. Of course I'm talking about a Windows MFC C++ 
solution.


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--
From: "Dr. Werner Furlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I have read something about a software project that should allow several
programs connect to a server and thus remote control different rigs. If I
remember right, the project worked in a way that the commands to the
server were in a unique language, and the server passed on the transceiver
specific code. (something like ADIF in log programs if such a comparison 
is

allowed)




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Dr. Werner Furlan]

hi Simon, 

On 14 Feb 2008 at 11:30, Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:

> Taking things a step further - it would not be at all difficult to
> allow other programs to send K3 commands to / from the K3 through
> another program.
> 
> This program (server) controls the serial comms and supports an
> unlimited number of clients. The clients speak to the radio using the
> radio's native protocol through the server.

I have read something about a software project that should allow several 
programs connect to a server and thus remote control different rigs. If I 
remember right, the project worked in a way that the commands to the 
server were in a unique language, and the server passed on the transceiver 
specific code. (something like ADIF in log programs if such a comparison is 
allowed)

I have to look if I can find a more specific reference to this project, but as 
you are more into this you'll probably know about it. 

73! de Werner
OE9FWV

--  
I'm afraid to be too open minded lets my brain fall out.



PGP-Key: 
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Fax +43 820 555 85 2621
Mobile  +43 664 6340014


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[VR2BrettGraham]

W4TV further continued:


> CI-V does have collision detection, as every device can
> see the serial bus as it sends.  That also makes a
> checksum unnecessary.

CI-V can only see the data it is sending.  Depending on the
hardware, it is entirely possible for two devices to be
sending on the bus at the same time with the local data
masking the remote data.


There are no hardware differences involved - a serial bus
with one device trying to pull the bus low & another device
trying to pull the bus high will result in at least one device
not seeing what it was expecting to see on the bus.

What you describe could happen if the serial bus has been
changed, but then that deviates from how the manufacturer
intended the product to be used.

73 & HLNY, VR2BrettGraham.


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VR2BrettGraham
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 PM
> To: 'Elecraft Reflector'
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence
>
>
> W4TV continued:
>
> > > CI-V also allows for multiple controllers, though I
> > > have yet to see any other application that appears
> > > to properly implement its CSMA/CD protocol.
> >
> >There is no carrier switching or collision detection in the
> >CI-V protocol.  The data packets do not carry any checksum
> >or sequence number both of which are required for CSMA/CD.
> >CI-V is a pure aloha protocol - if the packet gets lost or
> >damaged the originator must resend if it does not get
> >the expected reply.
>
> CI-V does have collision detection, as every device can
> see the serial bus as it sends.  That also makes a
> checksum unnecessary.  It is intended that a controller
> resend a command if a collision is detected, so there is
> no need for sequence numbers, either.
>
> "Carrier sense multiple access with collision detection"
> does not mean any more than that - but what I was
> responding to was the assertion that "there is not a single
> radio that is capable- in either hardware  or software - of
> reliably servicing two different radio control applications".
> Maybe there isn't, especially if one insists on not working
> with the radio as the manufacturer intended.
>
> 73 & HLNY, VR2BrettGraham.


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[VR2BrettGraham]

W4TV continued:


> CI-V also allows for multiple controllers, though I
> have yet to see any other application that appears
> to properly implement its CSMA/CD protocol.

There is no carrier switching or collision detection in the
CI-V protocol.  The data packets do not carry any checksum
or sequence number both of which are required for CSMA/CD.
CI-V is a pure aloha protocol - if the packet gets lost or
damaged the originator must resend if it does not get
the expected reply.


CI-V does have collision detection, as every device can
see the serial bus as it sends.  That also makes a
checksum unnecessary.  It is intended that a controller
resend a command if a collision is detected, so there is
no need for sequence numbers, either.

"Carrier sense multiple access with collision detection"
does not mean any more than that - but what I was
responding to was the assertion that "there is not a single
radio that is capable- in either hardware  or software - of
reliably servicing two different radio control applications".
Maybe there isn't, especially if one insists on not working
with the radio as the manufacturer intended.

73 & HLNY, VR2BrettGraham.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Barry N1EU]

Yes, Simon is describing what I had in mind - a software solution that can be
implemented in the near future.  Lacking such an RS-232 server program,
we're left only able to run one CAT-capable program at a time.  Unless your
contest logging program implements its own version of cw skimmer or
clickable panadapter etc, we won't have these capabilities unless software
that will arbitrate access to the serial port from multiple programs is
available.

73,
Barry N1EU


Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:
> 
> Taking things a step further - it would not be at all difficult to allow
> other programs to send K3 commands to / from the K3 through another
> program.
> 
> This program (server) controls the serial comms and supports an unlimited
> number of clients. The clients speak to the radio using the radio's native
> protocol through the server.
> 
> It's a simple concept, the programming is not too difficult except when
> talking with some of the older Yaesu radios. Supporting the K3 / Kenwood /
> ICOM like this would be simple.
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

Taking things a step further - it would not be at all difficult to allow
other programs to send K3 commands to / from the K3 through another program.

This program (server) controls the serial comms and supports an unlimited
number of clients. The clients speak to the radio using the radio's native
protocol through the server.

It's a simple concept, the programming is not too difficult except when
talking with some of the older Yaesu radios. Supporting the K3 / Kenwood /
ICOM like this would be simple.

As for things like split mode - as far as I can remember no ICOM radio
supports this via CAT commands, not even the $10k+ IC-7800 :-(

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


No, every program needs to know the radio status at all times.
If one program changes a setting that a second program relies
on without notification, nasty things can happen.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Bill W5WVO]

Augie Hansen wrote:


The crux of the matter is RS-232 specifies a point-to-point protocol.
It was never intended to support "bus" configurations. If you want, as
suggested by several corespondents, support for a bus configuration
with master and slave entities that play well together, a more robust
hardware/software solution is called for.


Yup. And let us not forget that somebody has already done this on an amateur 
transceiver. The Ten-Tec OMNI-VII comes equipped with a fully functional 
implementation of TCP/IP over a built-in Ethernet port. This is where the 
transceiver industry should be going. I would hope to see a TCP/IP Ethernet 
port on the K3 at some point in the foreseeable future. The capability to 
support the port in firmware is certainly there.


Bill W5WVO

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> CI-V also allows for multiple controllers, though I
> have yet to see any other application that appears
> to properly implement its CSMA/CD protocol.

There is no carrier switching or collision detection in the 
CI-V protocol.  The data packets do not carry any checksum 
or sequence number both of which are required for CSMA/CD. 
CI-V is a pure aloha protocol - if the packet gets lost or 
damaged the originator must resend if it does not get 
the expected reply. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VR2BrettGraham
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:41 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence
> 
> 
> W4TV suggested to N1EU:
> 
> > > I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software
> > > that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn
> > > to play with each other.
> >
> >That is not an application software matter - it is something the
> >radio manufacturers will need to fix in their CAT implementations.
> >There is not a single radio that is capable- in either hardware
> >or software - of reliably servicing two different radio control
> >applications.
> 
> Yes there is - any radio with CI-V.  Just about all
> of us providing the HF packet mail link from NA into
> Asia-Pacific were using ICOMs so that we could
> auto-QSY multiple rigs without using up precious
> serial ports (this was about 20 years ago).
> 
> CI-V also allows for multiple controllers, though I
> have yet to see any other application that appears
> to properly implement its CSMA/CD protocol.
> 
> 73 & HLNY, ex-VS6UP.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[VR2BrettGraham]

W4TV suggested to N1EU:


> I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software
> that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn
> to play with each other.

That is not an application software matter - it is something the
radio manufacturers will need to fix in their CAT implementations.
There is not a single radio that is capable- in either hardware
or software - of reliably servicing two different radio control
applications.


Yes there is - any radio with CI-V.  Just about all
of us providing the HF packet mail link from NA into
Asia-Pacific were using ICOMs so that we could
auto-QSY multiple rigs without using up precious
serial ports (this was about 20 years ago).

CI-V also allows for multiple controllers, though I
have yet to see any other application that appears
to properly implement its CSMA/CD protocol.

73 & HLNY, ex-VS6UP.

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> The way to do this is to allow one program to talk to the K3 
> and support other programs via virtual serial ports. 

No, every program needs to know the radio status at all times. 
If one program changes a setting that a second program relies 
on without notification, nasty things can happen.  

> I do this with Ham Radio Deluxe, other programs talk to HRD 
> via DDE, serial comms and soon via TCP/IP.
> 
> HRD talks Kenwood via the virtual serial port.

Unfortunately, Kenwood is far from "universal" in its support. 
HRD/Kenwood does not support split mode from other software 
like DXLab Suite.  The Kenwood protocol does not provide a 
dedicated "Digital" (PSK/AFSK) mode with access to digital 
specific filtering like Yaesu's Packet or Digital mode or the 
USB_D/LSB_D of the current Icom radios.  There are also major 
limitations in compatibility between the various manufacturer's 
DSP implementations (audio filtering, etc.) that leave the 
user unable to access features when a non-Kenwood radio is 
put behind the Kenwood emulation. 

Is the "server" function available without the HRD GUI and 
logbook? 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  


> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Brown (HB9DRV) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:36 PM
> To: Joe Subich, W4TV; 'Barry N1EU'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence
> 
> 
> The way to do this is to allow one program to talk to the K3 
> and support 
> other programs via virtual serial ports. I do this with Ham 
> Radio Deluxe, 
> other programs talk to HRD via DDE, serial comms and soon via TCP/IP.
> 
> HRD talks Kenwood via the virtual serial port.
> 
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
> 
> --
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >> I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software
> >> that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn
> >> to play with each other.
> >
> > That is not an application software matter - it is something the
> > radio manufacturers will need to fix in their CAT implementations.
> > 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Augie Hansen]

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

...
That is not an application software matter - it is something the 
radio manufacturers will need to fix in their CAT implementations. 
There is not a single radio that is capable- in either hardware 
or software - of reliably servicing two different radio control 
applications.  To do so, several changes are needed in the current 
radio firmware and interface: 
  

...

The crux of the matter is RS-232 specifies a point-to-point protocol. It 
was never intended to support "bus" configurations. If you want, as 
suggested by several corespondents, support for a bus configuration with 
master and slave entities that play well together, a more robust 
hardware/software solution is called for.


Gus Hansen
KB0YH

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

The way to do this is to allow one program to talk to the K3 and support 
other programs via virtual serial ports. I do this with Ham Radio Deluxe, 
other programs talk to HRD via DDE, serial comms and soon via TCP/IP.


HRD talks Kenwood via the virtual serial port.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software
that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn
to play with each other.


That is not an application software matter - it is something the
radio manufacturers will need to fix in their CAT implementations.


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Barry, 

> I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software 
> that interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn 
> to play with each other. 

That is not an application software matter - it is something the 
radio manufacturers will need to fix in their CAT implementations. 
There is not a single radio that is capable- in either hardware 
or software - of reliably servicing two different radio control 
applications.  To do so, several changes are needed in the current 
radio firmware and interface: 

1) commands/responses must be unambiguous - each response must 
   identify not only the nature of the response but what command 
   from which application the data is responding to. 
2) the radio must become the "master" of all communications 
   on the control bus.  The radio must contain a system under 
   which (a) each controlling device is assigned a "time slot," 
   (b) the radio polls each controlling device, or (c) control 
   is implemented on a shared BIDIRECTIONAL bus WITH COLLISION 
   CONTROL.  
3) each controlling program must be able to hear commands from 
   very other controlling program and must respond to the data 
   from the radio (update the program's internal status) as if 
   it had issued the commands.  

I suspect you will find most application software authors happy
to support a properly designed interface protocol.  I would not 
expect any software writer (or group of writers) to create full 
full function "virtual radio servers" for every new (and old) 
radio to come along. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry N1EU
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:02 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence
> 
> 
> 
> I heartily agree with Bill.  The K3 is uniquely positioned to 
> ride this new
> wave wherever it does or doesn't go.
> 
> I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software that
> interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn 
> to play with
> each other.  Developers have to stop writing code assuming 
> there isn't a
> need for other software to also simultaneously interface with 
> the rig. 
> Standards have to be developed and quickly adopted that will 
> facilitate
> exposing the rig's entire CAT functionality to any number of 
> programs while
> still preserving CAT responsiveness during fast paced contesting. 
> 
> 73,
> Barry N1EU
> 
> 
> 
> Bill W4ZV wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Michael E. Dobson wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Interesting note on the PVRC contest club reflector 
> regarding the K3 
> >> with the wideband IF output.  Coupling it with the LP-PAN 
> from N8LP 
> >> and CW Skimmer, they expect it to be THE standard for serious SO2R 
> >> contesting.  The comment is that everyone should order two of them 
> >> now.  At roughly $3K for the radio, LP-PAN and CW Skimmer, 
> there is 
> >> nothing at any price that can beat it.  
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > Hmmm...I wrote that note on the PVRC reflector and the above is not 
> > an accurate version of what I posted.  For the record, 
> here's what I 
> > actually wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  I'm not sure everyone comprehends the significance
> > of several developments around the K3. Together they will
> > allow parallel SDR-5000 class bandscope performance without
> > sacrificing the highest performance front-end on the market.
> > 
> > 
> > 1. The availability of the K3's wideband buffered IF output opens
> > up some very interesting possibilities.  Remember it's wideband,
> > post-BPF and pre-roofing filter, so it can "see" the entire CW
> > band when paired with an appropriate sound card (i.e. up to
> > 192 kHz of bandwidth).  This requires the $100 KXV3 option.
> > 
> > 
> > 2. N8LP's LP-PAN for the K3 (my guess is <$500 assembled, 
> $300 kitted?):
> > 
> > http://telepostinc.com/K3pan.html
> > 
> > This interfaces the K3's IF output to the computer sound card
> > and SDR software (e.g. even PowerSDR which the SDR-5000
> > uses).  You get a quality bandscope that far exceeds even the
> > IC-7800 in capability. See specs above.
> > 
> > 
> > 3. VE3NEA's CW Skimmer software ($75):
> > 
> > http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/
> > 
> > This will revolutionize serious contesting when unassisted 
> single ops
> > have the ability to internally generate Packet spots without outsi

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Barry N1EU]

I heartily agree with Bill.  The K3 is uniquely positioned to ride this new
wave wherever it does or doesn't go.

I'd add one more development that I feel is necessary.  Software that
interfaces to rigs over the single RS-232 port need to learn to play with
each other.  Developers have to stop writing code assuming there isn't a
need for other software to also simultaneously interface with the rig. 
Standards have to be developed and quickly adopted that will facilitate
exposing the rig's entire CAT functionality to any number of programs while
still preserving CAT responsiveness during fast paced contesting. 

73,
Barry N1EU



Bill W4ZV wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Michael E. Dobson wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Interesting note on the PVRC contest club reflector regarding the K3 
>> with the wideband IF output.  Coupling it with the LP-PAN from N8LP 
>> and CW Skimmer, they expect it to be THE standard for serious SO2R 
>> contesting.  The comment is that everyone should order two of them 
>> now.  At roughly $3K for the radio, LP-PAN and CW Skimmer, there is 
>> nothing at any price that can beat it.  
>> 
>> 
> 
> Hmmm...I wrote that note on the PVRC reflector and the above is not 
> an accurate version of what I posted.  For the record, here's what I 
> actually wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  I'm not sure everyone comprehends the significance
> of several developments around the K3. Together they will
> allow parallel SDR-5000 class bandscope performance without
> sacrificing the highest performance front-end on the market.
> 
> 
> 1. The availability of the K3's wideband buffered IF output opens
> up some very interesting possibilities.  Remember it's wideband,
> post-BPF and pre-roofing filter, so it can "see" the entire CW
> band when paired with an appropriate sound card (i.e. up to
> 192 kHz of bandwidth).  This requires the $100 KXV3 option.
> 
> 
> 2. N8LP's LP-PAN for the K3 (my guess is <$500 assembled, $300 kitted?):
> 
> http://telepostinc.com/K3pan.html
> 
> This interfaces the K3's IF output to the computer sound card
> and SDR software (e.g. even PowerSDR which the SDR-5000
> uses).  You get a quality bandscope that far exceeds even the
> IC-7800 in capability. See specs above.
> 
> 
> 3. VE3NEA's CW Skimmer software ($75):
> 
> http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/
> 
> This will revolutionize serious contesting when unassisted single ops
> have the ability to internally generate Packet spots without outside
> assistance. SO2R using a K3/LP-PAN/CW Skimmer can feed spots
> directly to the bandmap of current contest logging software, which
> can sort needed mults/calls and present them in a point-and-click
> display (just like assisted or multi-multi ops use now).  This would
> probably not work on the same band without some other tricks but
> should work fine for other bands just as SO2R rigs do today.
> 
>  The convergence of these 3 products may set a new standard for
> serious contesters (and probably DXers). Add up the above prices, add
> $1000 for a computer/monitor and you have unbelievable performance for
> the money (<$5k total including the K3 configured for contesting).
> 
>  73, Bill W4ZV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Michael E. Dobson]

I was typing fast from memory Bill so got the $$ amount wrong but you 
included the computer as part of the total price I believe, I did 
not.  Did you estimate kit or factory built prices for the contest 
configured K3?  I think a kit version of a full contest K3 can be had 
for just under $3k without the 2nd receiver (would that be used in 
SO2R?).  The comment that everyone should order two was the next 
message after yours in the digest I was reading.


I guess I am just too excited about having mine and all the good 
press it seems to be getting and wanted to share.


73,
Mike WA3KYY

At 05:56 PM 2/12/2008, you wrote:




Michael E. Dobson wrote:
>
>
> Interesting note on the PVRC contest club reflector regarding the K3
> with the wideband IF output.  Coupling it with the LP-PAN from N8LP
> and CW Skimmer, they expect it to be THE standard for serious SO2R
> contesting.  The comment is that everyone should order two of them
> now.  At roughly $3K for the radio, LP-PAN and CW Skimmer, there is
> nothing at any price that can beat it.
>
>

Hmmm...I wrote that note on the PVRC reflector and the above is not
an accurate version of what I posted.  For the record, here's what I
actually wrote:



 I'm not sure everyone comprehends the significance
of several developments around the K3. Together they will
allow parallel SDR-5000 class bandscope performance without
sacrificing the highest performance front-end on the market.


1. The availability of the K3's wideband buffered IF output opens
up some very interesting possibilities.  Remember it's wideband,
post-BPF and pre-roofing filter, so it can "see" the entire CW
band when paired with an appropriate sound card (i.e. up to
192 kHz of bandwidth).  This requires the $100 KXV3 option.


2. N8LP's LP-PAN for the K3 (my guess is <$500 assembled, $300 kitted?):

http://telepostinc.com/K3pan.html

This interfaces the K3's IF output to the computer sound card
and SDR software (e.g. even PowerSDR which the SDR-5000
uses).  You get a quality bandscope that far exceeds even the
IC-7800 in capability. See specs above.


3. VE3NEA's CW Skimmer software ($75):

http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/

This will revolutionize serious contesting when unassisted single ops
have the ability to internally generate Packet spots without outside
assistance. SO2R using a K3/LP-PAN/CW Skimmer can feed spots
directly to the bandmap of current contest logging software, which
can sort needed mults/calls and present them in a point-and-click
display (just like assisted or multi-multi ops use now).  This would
probably not work on the same band without some other tricks but
should work fine for other bands just as SO2R rigs do today.

 The convergence of these 3 products may set a new standard for
serious contesters (and probably DXers). Add up the above prices, add
$1000 for a computer/monitor and you have unbelievable performance for
the money (<$5k total including the K3 configured for contesting).

 73, Bill W4ZV




--
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[Elecraft] K3 Convergence

[Bill W4ZV]

Michael E. Dobson wrote:
> 
> 
> Interesting note on the PVRC contest club reflector regarding the K3 
> with the wideband IF output.  Coupling it with the LP-PAN from N8LP 
> and CW Skimmer, they expect it to be THE standard for serious SO2R 
> contesting.  The comment is that everyone should order two of them 
> now.  At roughly $3K for the radio, LP-PAN and CW Skimmer, there is 
> nothing at any price that can beat it.  
> 
> 

Hmmm...I wrote that note on the PVRC reflector and the above is not 
an accurate version of what I posted.  For the record, here's what I 
actually wrote:



 I'm not sure everyone comprehends the significance
of several developments around the K3. Together they will
allow parallel SDR-5000 class bandscope performance without
sacrificing the highest performance front-end on the market.


1. The availability of the K3's wideband buffered IF output opens
up some very interesting possibilities.  Remember it's wideband,
post-BPF and pre-roofing filter, so it can "see" the entire CW
band when paired with an appropriate sound card (i.e. up to
192 kHz of bandwidth).  This requires the $100 KXV3 option.


2. N8LP's LP-PAN for the K3 (my guess is <$500 assembled, $300 kitted?):

http://telepostinc.com/K3pan.html

This interfaces the K3's IF output to the computer sound card
and SDR software (e.g. even PowerSDR which the SDR-5000
uses).  You get a quality bandscope that far exceeds even the
IC-7800 in capability. See specs above.


3. VE3NEA's CW Skimmer software ($75):

http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/

This will revolutionize serious contesting when unassisted single ops
have the ability to internally generate Packet spots without outside
assistance. SO2R using a K3/LP-PAN/CW Skimmer can feed spots
directly to the bandmap of current contest logging software, which
can sort needed mults/calls and present them in a point-and-click
display (just like assisted or multi-multi ops use now).  This would
probably not work on the same band without some other tricks but
should work fine for other bands just as SO2R rigs do today.

 The convergence of these 3 products may set a new standard for
serious contesters (and probably DXers). Add up the above prices, add
$1000 for a computer/monitor and you have unbelievable performance for
the money (<$5k total including the K3 configured for contesting).

 73, Bill W4ZV




-- 
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