Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-16 Thread Jim Brown
On 9/16/2012 12:20 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> "mountains around DC" ??? 

As a WV native, with family in the panhandles of MD and WV, I am 
thinking of the mountains to the W and SW of DC.  When I was growing up 
(in the 50s), metro DC was a lot smaller than it is now, consisting 
mostly of close-in suburbs like Fairfax, Arlington, Bethesda, etc.  Now, 
DC bedroom communities extend well into MD, PA, VA and WV, where there 
are, indeed, mountains. Most contesters in that area are members of 
either the Potomac Valley Radio Club or the Frankfort Radio Club, and 
last I heard, many DO head for the mountains for VHF contests.  I 
remember doing so when I was growing up in the Ohio Valley.

73, Jim K9YC
Official Hillbilly :)
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-16 Thread Geoffrey Downs
It's possible that I was among the first, if not the first, to report the 
K144XV self-oscillation problem in March 2010 not long after it started 
shipping. It took six months to solve, including 3 replacements units, a 
replacement KXV3A and a lot of emails, tests and effort on both sides of the 
Atlantic. David G4DMP whose K144XV showed the same problem eventually 
isolated it. As he has said in an earlier posting, the solution, discovered 
in September 2010, was simple in the end. It is implemented in K144XVs 
shipped since then and referred to in an Errata Sheet for the K144XV 
Installation Manual dated September 30th 2010.  It applies to pages 15 and 
16 of the Manual and involves the omission of one of the screws holding the 
top cover. I believe the metal standoff beneath the hole may also be omitted 
now but is still shown in the photograph on page 14 of the Manual, the date 
of which precedes the solution. In the unlikely event of anyone out there 
still having the problem, the above details may help.

As will be apparent the support from Elecraft was unstinting and the K144XV 
may now be bought with full confidence. I would agree, however, that the 
K144RFLK is essential, for CW and SSB operation operation at least. I have 
never had problems with strong local signals but here the 2m band is so 
rarely awash with them that it's not surprising.

73 to all

Geoff
G3UCK


-Original Message- 
From: Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:02 AM

It's my understanding that the oscillation problem was solved long ago by
(IIRC) a change in the K144XV pc board ground scheme. 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-16 Thread Don Wilhelm
Jim,

"mountains around DC" ???
I used to live in Barnsville, MD overlooking Sugarloaf Mountain, and 
that is about as close to "mountains around DC"  as it gets.  I cannot 
recall the height of Sugarloaf Mountain, but it was not that great, and 
it was private property when I was there in the 1980s - but the owners 
provided a path to the summit for visitors.

It was often referred to as a "bump out of place".  One must go quite a 
ways Northwestward from DC to encounter mountains.   Western Maryland 
yes, Southern Pennsylvania, yes, but much of Maryland is the eastern 
coastal. plains was flat and without "bumps"- yes those Eastern coastal 
plains do turn quickly into mountains, so your choice of position is a 
big factor in your assessment of vertical altitude.

If one wants mountains when in Maryland, it is advised to head for 
Western Virginia and the Shenandoah Mountain range.  Southwest of 
Maryland is the great Shenandoah National Park where My family 
vacationed for many years.  My children grew up on the instructions from 
the park rangers at Big Meadows.

73,
Don W3FPR

  9/16/2012 2:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/15/2012 10:43 PM, Vic Goncharsky wrote:
>> What I am personally looking for is information about on the air performance 
>> of 144 and 432 Elecraft transverters in strong signal environments like 
>> VHF/UHF contests in dense areas with multi-kilowatt  folks occupying 
>> mountain tops all around.
> I recall such a review in QST something like 4-5 years ago. Obviously it
> applies to the outboard unit, and I think I recall it being the 2M
> version.  Check the ARRL product review archives. Members can download
> the pdf.  I do remember that it was tested in a contesting environment
> (east coast, maybe New England or the mountains around DC) with a lot of
> strong signals, and that it was a very positive review.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread K7MDL
I used mine at home and more often on mountain tops during VHF+ contests as a
rover.  I am often in line of sight to other high power rovers and the KW
stations in the valleys below.  I used a K2 with my transverters.  After a
number of previous rover setups that did not do well, I found this combo
worked well.  I had no more adjacent bleed issues, and stability was quite
acceptable.  I have since swapped the K2 for the K3 "just because" :-) . 

I have not had the K3 combo out on a mountain top yet.  I have done
extensive A/B swapping at the home station between the XV144 and K144XV and
show no discernable difference in performance except some noise/spur pickup
and lower output power in the K144XV (no surprise).  That is offset by
having the 4Mhz band coverage making FM possible.  I like that since I an
pickup Simplex QSOs and do some occasional repeater or satellite work and
use the same antennas, no extra switching or rotators required.





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread Jim Brown
On 9/15/2012 10:43 PM, Vic Goncharsky wrote:
> What I am personally looking for is information about on the air performance 
> of 144 and 432 Elecraft transverters in strong signal environments like 
> VHF/UHF contests in dense areas with multi-kilowatt  folks occupying mountain 
> tops all around.

I recall such a review in QST something like 4-5 years ago. Obviously it 
applies to the outboard unit, and I think I recall it being the 2M 
version.  Check the ARRL product review archives. Members can download 
the pdf.  I do remember that it was tested in a contesting environment 
(east coast, maybe New England or the mountains around DC) with a lot of 
strong signals, and that it was a very positive review.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread Vic Goncharsky
What I am personally looking for is information about on the air performance of 
144 and 432 Elecraft transverters in strong signal environments like VHF/UHF 
contests in dense areas with multi-kilowatt  folks occupying mountain tops all 
around.

I planned to make K144XV test during the last IARU R1 VHF championship but due 
to the lack of upgraded KXV3A board this did not happen (my fault). On the 
other hand Kuhne "TR 144 H+40" and Elecraft K3 pair allowed to "forget" about 
front-end overload. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUCECQmgrj0&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JL9GF1rBVo&feature=relmfu
VHF contesters opinions are welcomed.

73 Vic US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests) KN29AU
UARL VHF committee
Chairman, UARL Lvov Branch "LKK"
Moderator, UARL VHF portal http://www.vhfdx.at.ua
DXCC card checker in Ukraine



 From: Ron D'Eau Claire 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters
 
 ... My K144XV is perfectly well behaved... 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire
It's my understanding that the oscillation problem was solved long ago by
(IIRC) a change in the K144XV pc board ground scheme. My K144XV is perfectly
well behaved and I've not seen any queries to the support reflector about
oscillation in many months. John, it might be worth a follow up with
Elecraft support if you still want to use the internal transverter. Their
philosophy is that it's not right until it is right, Hi!

Three points to consider when deciding which transverter to use: 

1) The internal transverter is limited to 10 watts, while the outboard
transverters will handle 20 watts PEP/CW.

2) The frequency stability of the external transverter is that of the xtal
oscillator in the unit (a TCXO is available as an option) while the
frequency stability of the internal transverter can be slaved to the K3's
master reference oscillator with the K144RFLK option. For even greater
stability, the K3's master reference oscillator can be slaved to an external
10 MHz frequency standard such as a GPS clock signal using the K3EXREF
option.

3) The internal transverter is 2 meters only. He'll still want a separate
box for 70 cm. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-

1. The inboard transverter for 2 meters could never be made to
function...the unit oscillated with great abandon, despite the best advices
of Elecraft. If you look back through the archives, you will find several
reports, including one from VK, reportiong this behavior. 
The K3 works flawlessly with the external units, which I built from kits.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

==

On 9/15/2012 10:05 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> *Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any 
> comments plus or minus as to performance.
>
> I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be 
> adding these transverters.
>
> His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M.
>
> I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to 
> lack of experience in the higher bands.
>
> Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with
> QRM.:-)
>
> 73
> *

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread John Ragle



On 9/15/2012 6:05 PM, Sebastian, W4AS wrote (regarding drift problems 
with XV144 and XV432 transverters):
>  To minimize frequency drift, the manual suggests to always have the 
> local oscillator powered, easily accomplished by changing a jumper inside; 
> note that requires 12 volts to always be present. 

Since the local oscillator oven draws only minimal current, and since 
the units draw very little total current in receive mode, it seems 
logical to do as the manuals suggest and leave the units powered during 
periods of potential use. Under these circumstances I have had no 
problem with drift. I should mention that my XV144 is stacked on my 
XV432 with 1" aluminum bar stock used for spacing, and there is no 
cooling fan.

John Ragle -- W1ZI
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread K7MDL
For daisy chaining I use BNC to SMA adapters with SMA Tee connectors mounted. 
Then I made up custom cables with quality coax (RG316) cut to the perfect
sizes to stack the transverters.  I have also used 2 pieces of aluminum
angle stock as mounting ears to mount my XV stack into a box "rack".  Using
RG316 everywhere and custom lengths, it comes out very tidy and well
sheilded.   

I use a 12VDC Sp4T SMA coax switch controlled by a slightly modified KRC2 to
route my K3/K144XV 2M RF/IF and PTT to antenna or the 902/1296 transverters. 
I have an extensive article written up with pictures and schematics on
request.   My website no longer exists.

- Mike, K7MDL



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread Sebastian, W4AS
With a K3 I use the XV144, XV222 and XV432 external transverters.

At first I was very disappointed with their frequency drift.  It was difficult 
to stay on frequency from a cold start, and it would continue to drift the more 
I transmitted.

Installing the $100 TCXOs helped but didn't really solve the issue.  To 
minimize frequency drift, the manual suggests to always have the local 
oscillator powered, easily accomplished by changing a jumper inside; note that 
requires 12 volts to always be present.

I checked the voltage on the 25 amp power supply I was using (a bit overkill on 
the current, yet it was what I had that wasn't being used) and made sure that 
it didn't deviate over time or while transmitting.

Frequency stability is very important to me as I often run meteor scatter 
contacts which are quite dependent on accurate frequency control, and demands a 
key down time of 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off.

I thought that perhaps by placing one transverter on top of each other as I had 
done, wasn't helping the cooling, so I made a little cabinet which offers 
approximately 3 inches of separation on all sides from the trio.  Again, that 
didn't help very much.

Frankly I was ready to go back to a TS-2000 for VHF/UHF as I hadn't been able 
to solve the drift issue, and it was embarrassing to talk to the locals on 2 
meter SSB when I was drifting for the first few minutes.

Finally, the problem was solved rather easily.  After reading through similar 
stories from other hams, I found an old cooling fan for a 486 CPU processor 
which has almost the same dimensions as the small cooling holes on top of each 
transverter.  I applied double-sided tape to each corner of the fan, and placed 
it on top of the cooling holes.  As long as the little fan is on, the 
transverters will drift only a small amount, which is acceptable for the modes 
I use.

Note that my XV144 is the one I use the most often, and is setup to output only 
about 4 watts, which is enough to generate 50 watts from one amp (Mirage B108 
capable of 80 watts), which is enough to fully drive my 300 watt amp (Mirage 
B5030G).  These amps and the XV144 are keyed using an external sequencer.  I'm 
not sure if the little fan would help if you were to use the full 25 watts 
output of the transverters.  I should also note that the K3 is driving them 
with very little power (I forget exactly how many milliwatts).

Don't use a large computer power supply fan, as the fan motor will be similar 
in size to the cooling holes, which means you would actually be covering them 
up and making the problem worse.

Finally, I haven't come up with a neat way of daisy chaining them.  Typically 
you would use BNC T connectors, but having three transverters close to each 
other, with six coaxial cables connected with six BNC T connectors creates 
quite a mess; in addition to the control cables, but that's just a minor issue.

73 de Sebastian, W4AS



On Sep 15, 2012, at 6:05 AM, Gary Gregory  wrote:

> *Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments
> plus or minus as to performance.
> 
> I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be
> adding these transverters.
> 
> His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M.
> 
> I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of
> experience in the higher bands.
> 
> Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with
> QRM.:-)
> 
> 73
> *
> -- 
> *Gary*

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread David G4DMP
In a recent message, John Ragle  writes
>1. The inboard transverter for 2 meters could never be made to
>function...the unit oscillated with great abandon, despite the best
>advices of Elecraft.

There was instability on the early K144XV units, but there is a very
simple mod that cures it. It is a simple matter of removing a screw. It
is the central screw on the top cover. I replace the existing metal
pillar and screw with nylon ones and the instability disappeared like
magic. I thought there was a mod sheet about that. Wayne/Eric - is
there?

73 de David G4DMP

-- 
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
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 | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread David G4DMP
I would say go for it, Gary. The Elecraft transverters all have a high
gain, low noise front end using the ATF-34143 Pseudomorphic High
Electron Mobility Transistor (HEMT). I presume your VK friend will be
using the internal (K144XV) 2M xverter and the external (XV432) 70cm
xverter. If he is going to get the K144XV I would recommend he also gets
the K144RFLK to ensure best stability when using CW/SSB/Data.

I do not have the 70cm XV432, but have the internal 2m xverter and an
external XV70 4m and they work fine.

73 de David G4DMP

In a recent message, Gary Gregory  writes
>*Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments
>plus or minus as to performance.
>
>I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be
>adding these transverters.
>
>His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M.
>
>I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of
>experience in the higher bands.
>
>Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with
>QRM.:-)

There's no QRM on the reflector, just Phase Noise!

-- 
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
 | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds.   |
 | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread Fred Smith
Gary

The K3 with the internal 2m module works excellent and it doesn't have to
hang off the back of the transceiver. As for the 70cm the only choice for it
is the transverter as far 6m if is already in the K3 to begin with.

I use a smaller amp to drive my large 2m amp and it works out quite well
that way. I do have a friend who has both the Elecraft transverters for
2/6/432m for his K2 and like them.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary Gregory
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:06 AM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

*Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments plus
or minus as to performance.

I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be
adding these transverters.

His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M.

I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of
experience in the higher bands.

Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with
QRM.:-)

73
*
--
*Gary*
*Start the day off slow, then taper off.*
K3 #679
KPA500FT #18
KAT500FT 007
P3 #1629
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread John Ragle
I have a K3 with the XV transverters for 2 and 3/4 meters. (NOTE: these 
are the outboard transverters!) They drive 2 and 3/4 meter TE Systems 
brick amps to about 300 watts and 75 W respectively.

Two comments:

1. The inboard transverter for 2 meters could never be made to 
function...the unit oscillated with great abandon, despite the best 
advices of Elecraft. If you look back through the archives, you will 
find several reports, including one from VK, reportiong this behavior. 
The K3 works flawlessly with the external units, which I built from kits.

2. For anything but local use, the most important part of the chain is 
the antenna; its location, height, gain, etc. In particular, at 3/4 
meters the bound -water dielectric loss from water in vegetation is very 
significant, and the antenna must be well above (i.e. must "look" over) 
nearby trees, Koala Bears, etc. I use a 10 element beam on 2 and an 11 
element beam on 3/4 meters, and these are barely adequate for DX use 
from my location. A good antenna installation (high-gain array, proper 
feed lines) will overcome any slight deficiencies in the transverter 
front end...if one can hear antenna noise, one is fine.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

==

On 9/15/2012 10:05 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> *Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments
> plus or minus as to performance.
>
> I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be
> adding these transverters.
>
> His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M.
>
> I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of
> experience in the higher bands.
>
> Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with
> QRM.:-)
>
> 73
> *

-- 
Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420

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[Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2012-09-15 Thread Gary Gregory
*Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments
plus or minus as to performance.

I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be
adding these transverters.

His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M.

I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of
experience in the higher bands.

Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with
QRM.:-)

73
*
-- 
*Gary*
*Start the day off slow, then taper off.*
K3 #679
KPA500FT #18
KAT500FT 007
P3 #1629
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Transverters

2008-09-10 Thread Don Wilhelm

Ian,

You should be able to use the KEYOUT-LP signal line.  It is an open 
drain circuit in the K3, so depending on your transverter design, you 
may or may not have to add a pullup resistor.  The pullup can go to the 
+12 volt line or anything lower in your transverter.  I would suggest 
that a pullup resistor value of 2.2k to 10k ohms should work.  Use a 
higher value with higher voltages.  The current when the KEYOUT-LP line 
is low should be limited to 10 ma. or less.


73,
Don W3FPR

Ian Maude wrote:

Hi all,
I have just finished building and aligning a 4m transverter from 
Spectrum Communications which I intend to connect ot the K3 (and 
indeed have had working) as well as my XV144.  The 4m transverter 
needs 0 volts to key the PTT.  Can I use pin 10 off the accessory jack?
Are there any other things I need to know about using an Elecraft 
transverter and a non-Elecraft one in a chain?  I am using the 
transverter interface at 1mW.



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[Elecraft] K3 and Transverters

2008-09-10 Thread Ian Maude

Hi all,
I have just finished building and aligning a 4m transverter from 
Spectrum Communications which I intend to connect ot the K3 (and indeed 
have had working) as well as my XV144.  The 4m transverter needs 0 volts 
to key the PTT.  Can I use pin 10 off the accessory jack?
Are there any other things I need to know about using an Elecraft 
transverter and a non-Elecraft one in a chain?  I am using the 
transverter interface at 1mW.


Thanks

Ian

--

Ian J Maude, G0VGS
SysOp GB7MBC DX Cluster
Member RSGB, GQRP
K2 #4044 |K3 #455 


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[Elecraft] K3 and transverters

2008-07-08 Thread Terry Schieler
M0CDL wrote:

  

When I ordered my K3 a year ago I sent an email to Elecraft regarding this
same issue.  I suggested that they consider having black housings available
for the KXV transverter line.  I received a very favorable response to the
suggestion.  I doubt that it is really bright on their radar screen today,
but the idea IS before them.

73,

Terry, W0FM
K2 3416
K3 474


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Transverters

2008-07-08 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF
Wayne did say last year there would be black enclosures, but not  
specifically that they would do black panel XVs.

The size is different too. - I bought an XV144

There was something on here some months ago about converting XV50 to  
XV70 and its in the mail archives and attached what I saved here:



73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--  
Math Anxiety: an intense lifelong fear of two trains approaching each  
other at speeds of 60 and 80 MPH. -Rick Bayan


On 8 Jul 2008, at 14:33, John wrote:







Subject: K3 and Transverters



Hi I wonder if the powers that be have thought about doing a few  
elecraft
transverters in K3 Black to match K3's? Also how easy/hard would it  
be to
change the 50 MHz transverter over to 70 MHz? the 4 meter band is  
quite
popular over here in Europe, there seems to be a few more countries  
that

have been granted experimenters licenses, John M0CDL.

K2 2908

K3 268


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[Elecraft] K3 and Transverters

2008-07-08 Thread John
 

 


Subject: K3 and Transverters

 

Hi I wonder if the powers that be have thought about doing a few elecraft
transverters in K3 Black to match K3's? Also how easy/hard would it be to
change the 50 MHz transverter over to 70 MHz? the 4 meter band is quite
popular over here in Europe, there seems to be a few more countries that
have been granted experimenters licenses, John M0CDL.

K2 2908

K3 268

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