[Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
Hi, Al I have a long list of things that will clip dits, and only one of them involved the K3, and that went away nicely with the new synthesizers. El Numero Uno contest QSK problem, with nothing in second place, is QSK dealing with amplifiers that will not do T/R turn-around (including the relay points *settling*) in less time than the space between dits :>) The manufacturers do not want to deal with it because it's either expensive and tricky with relays, or it's pin diodes that get whacked at full QRO from transmitting into an open, static on the antenna, lightning induced pulses, etc. Some hams do fine with the pin diodes and others have nothing but trouble with them, depends on a lot of things. Some transceiver manufacturers simply clip the keyed input if the delay is too long, a defensive solution resulting in short dits but *not* burning amp relays or carbon-arcing amplifier bandswitches. Myself, I have given up on contest QSK, and let my microHam u2R handle providing PTT to the amp and delay to the u2R generated code. Since the u2R (not the K3) converts both ascii data via a serial cable from the PC and my paddle input to keyed line, and it uses the WinKey chip to do most of that, it is also in a position to slightly delay the onset of morse output just a little behind a PTT output. That delay can be set to match the most atrocious T/R relay, including an old unmodified AL1200, with never a clipped dit. That is separate from the ancient problem of a computer not quite having enough processing power to handle the operating system AND generate pristine on/off morse code key output. Again some do OK generating code this way and others have awful problems with it. The reasons why or why not are often not clear at all. These issues have gigabytes of postings on the subject in the various ham archives, rehashed ad nauseum as the subject comes up over and over again over the last two decades. It certainly is anything but an recently emergent problem. With my settings, the Alpha drops at the end of each letter, which is good enough to hear if someone already started sending under me and I can stop paddling or hit escape. I gave up on contest QSK not because of the K3, but because of the general issues that touch everything, and I am tired of replacing relays in amplifiers and finding out I have clicks when the contacts go bad. When there is a transistor full QRO amp using battleship grade pin diodes, where the entire amp is as reliable as the KPA500 or my tube Alpha, **and that does not exceed the rest of my station in purchase price**, I'll switch. But I *continue* to hear stories about pin diodes and transistor amps blowing finals, even if some insist that theirs have always been fine (God bless them, I envy their good luck). Last night in the ARRL 160 contest there was a K0 station that could not send "IA" for his section. Before dit-dropping occurred to me, he was sending "EA" for section and I was asking for a fill. 73, Guy K2AV On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Al Lorona> wrote: > Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it > after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue > has come up on its own I wish to make an observation. > > During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded > pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd > have done something about it. > > Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some > of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my > own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through > DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay. > > So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but > what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work > well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op. > > Al W6LX > > -- Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
I also use the WinKey USB with my K3 and it works flawlessly! Ronnie W5SUM -Original Message- From: Scott via Elecraft Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 8:27 PM To: kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue I did the same thing after having the same problem and have to agree the WInkey USB is (so far) flawless. But I really would like to know how Tom avoids the issue directly keying the radio, especially for portable ops. Operating under W8.1 with direct keying I had about everything that could be shutdown, shutdown, and still hit the 30 WPM wall without the WInkeyer. Scott ka9p In a message dated 12/4/2015 7:01:22 P.M. Central Standard Time, kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net writes: I've used a Winkey USB for about four years now. Perfect code. I don't have to worry about the PC getting busy and screwing up the CW sent with serial lines. On 12/4/2015 11:44 AM, Al Lorona wrote: Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue has come up on its own I wish to make an observation. During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd have done something about it. Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay. So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op. Al W6LX -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ARRL FISTS #11993 SKCC #215 NAQCC #3441 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@aol.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w5...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
Hi all, I noticed a problem with N1MM + in CW. When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between points and lines changes and, at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible. Any suggestions? 73, Fausto IK4NMF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
If you have a K3 with the old synthesizer, then you will have this problem with a paddle or with N1MM, or indeed with any source of CW. One solution is to activate QRQ mode (CONFIG CW QRQ = ON). There are some limitations, such as not being able to use it with SPLIT or RIT/XIT. The better solution is to buy the new synthesizer and replace it. In that case, if you have the second receiver, you need two synthesizers, which unfortunately will be expensive (especially in Europe). The K3S comes with the new synthesizer. I suggest you try sending with a paddle at the speed you want to use to determine if this is the cause. There is also a problem with any computer-generated CW that it can be affected by other processes in the computer, especially if you are accessing the Internet for spots at the same time. The best solution for this is to get a Winkey device which will interface with N1MM+ and generate the CW. Both of these issues could contribute to the problem. 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 4 Dec 2015 10:14, Fausto Coletti wrote: Hi all, I noticed a problem with N1MM + in CW. When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between points and lines changes and, at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible. Any suggestions? 73, Fausto IK4NMF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
I think the dits that N1MM makes are too short, at least to my ear. I set the CW weighting in N1MM 10-20% heavier and that seems to help. I never get much above 32 won but it seems fine there. The CW weight setting in the K3 menu only affects paddle input. 73, Brian, K0DTJ > When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between points and > lines changes and, > at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
What you both neglect to mention is how you are keying with NL+? It makes a difference. For keying my K3, I use the DTR line. I have tested sending CW, with the default weight setting, up to about 115 wpm and from 20 wpm up to the max of my K3, in my opinion, the NL+ weight maintains perfect weight/spacing up to that speed. So what do you use for keying NL+ and what rig are you using? 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brian Hunt Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 10:34 AM To: Fausto Coletti Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue I think the dits that N1MM makes are too short, at least to my ear. I set the CW weighting in N1MM 10-20% heavier and that seems to help. I never get much above 32 won but it seems fine there. The CW weight setting in the K3 menu only affects paddle input. 73, Brian, K0DTJ > When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between > points and lines changes and, at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to alderm...@windstream.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue has come up on its own I wish to make an observation. During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd have done something about it. Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay. So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op. Al W6LX >>>For keying my K3, I use the DTR line. I have tested sending CW, with the >>>default weight setting, up to about 115 wpm and from 20 wpm up to the max of >>>my K3, in my opinion, the NL+ weight maintains perfect weight/spacing up to >>>that speed. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
I've used a Winkey USB for about four years now. Perfect code. I don't have to worry about the PC getting busy and screwing up the CW sent with serial lines. On 12/4/2015 11:44 AM, Al Lorona wrote: Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue has come up on its own I wish to make an observation. During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd have done something about it. Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay. So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op. Al W6LX -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ARRL FISTS #11993 SKCC #215 NAQCC #3441 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue
I did the same thing after having the same problem and have to agree the WInkey USB is (so far) flawless. But I really would like to know how Tom avoids the issue directly keying the radio, especially for portable ops. Operating under W8.1 with direct keying I had about everything that could be shutdown, shutdown, and still hit the 30 WPM wall without the WInkeyer. Scott ka9p In a message dated 12/4/2015 7:01:22 P.M. Central Standard Time, kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net writes: I've used a Winkey USB for about four years now. Perfect code. I don't have to worry about the PC getting busy and screwing up the CW sent with serial lines. On 12/4/2015 11:44 AM, Al Lorona wrote: > Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue has come up on its own I wish to make an observation. > > During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd have done something about it. > > Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay. > > So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op. > > > Al W6LX > -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ARRL FISTS #11993 SKCC #215 NAQCC #3441 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@aol.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com