Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes [END of Thread]
Looks like Jim got the info he needed. Lets end this thread for now. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft Moderator, and Dayton surviver. Jim Miller KG0KP wrote: > Thanks everybody on the Tek 475 info. I use Google for a lot of things - > why don't I think of it in a case such as this ??? Old age gets the blame > again. > > Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Depends on your definition significant. I had both in a shop and both preformed well for almost all applications. At DC, audio or video they were virtually identical. At high speed data in the 10 to 150 mbs range the 475 was preferred. RF over 50 MHz the 475 was better. The 475 has slightly better specs for the time base and a wider bandwidth. It was better in measuring time at below microsecond range and had time base lower jitter. Is there a significant difference between the 465 and the 475? K4GM- George __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Is there a significant difference between the 465 and the 475? K4GM- George __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Thanks everybody on the Tek 475 info. I use Google for a lot of things - why don't I think of it in a case such as this ??? Old age gets the blame again. Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP - Original Message - From: "Tom Hammond" To: "Jim Miller KG0KP" ; Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes Jim: Just GOOGLE for 'tektronix 475' and then select one or more of the links. I quick search shows that the Tek 475 is a 200 MHz o'scope. 73, Tom N0SS At 10:06 05/21/2009, you wrote: >How do you know what the frequency rating of a scope is? >What is the rating of my Techtronics 475? >We used them at work for required adjustments to tolerances of 2/10 >nanoseconds. > >Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP > >- Original Message - >From: "Don Wilhelm" >To: "Jon Kåre Hellan" >Cc: "'Elecraft List'" >Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes > > >Jon, > >For use on the HF bands, go for a 'scope rated at 100 MHz or higher, and >be certain to use probes that are also rated for 100 MHz or more. >The frequency rating of a 'scope is the point where the vertical >response is down 3 dB, so you will not be able to do valid voltage >measurements at frequencies beyond about 1/3 of the frequency rating of >the 'scope. The 50 mHz 'scope will give valid voltage measurements up >to about 16 MHz while the 100 MHz 'scope will be good up through 30 MHz. > >If good measurement of voltages is not important to you, then the 50 MHz >'scope may be OK, even though the voltage (signal amplitude) may be >attenuated, it will still show a proper waveform up to its rated >frequency and often beyond - unless the input waveform is a pulse or a >square wave where the rise time is one of the important parameters - for >most amateur radio purposes, that is not important. > >Analog vs. Digital - no comment, but I prefer the real time analog >'scope, no potential digital artifacts to deal with. > >73, >Don W3FPR > >Jon Kåre Hellan wrote: > > Hi > > > > I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend > > getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 > > MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot > > cheaper, though. > > > > Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? > > > > 73 > > Jon LA4RT > > > > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Jim: Just GOOGLE for 'tektronix 475' and then select one or more of the links. I quick search shows that the Tek 475 is a 200 MHz o'scope. 73, Tom N0SS At 10:06 05/21/2009, you wrote: >How do you know what the frequency rating of a scope is? >What is the rating of my Techtronics 475? >We used them at work for required adjustments to tolerances of 2/10 >nanoseconds. > >Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP > >- Original Message - >From: "Don Wilhelm" >To: "Jon Kåre Hellan" >Cc: "'Elecraft List'" >Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes > > >Jon, > >For use on the HF bands, go for a 'scope rated at 100 MHz or higher, and >be certain to use probes that are also rated for 100 MHz or more. >The frequency rating of a 'scope is the point where the vertical >response is down 3 dB, so you will not be able to do valid voltage >measurements at frequencies beyond about 1/3 of the frequency rating of >the 'scope. The 50 mHz 'scope will give valid voltage measurements up >to about 16 MHz while the 100 MHz 'scope will be good up through 30 MHz. > >If good measurement of voltages is not important to you, then the 50 MHz >'scope may be OK, even though the voltage (signal amplitude) may be >attenuated, it will still show a proper waveform up to its rated >frequency and often beyond - unless the input waveform is a pulse or a >square wave where the rise time is one of the important parameters - for >most amateur radio purposes, that is not important. > >Analog vs. Digital - no comment, but I prefer the real time analog >'scope, no potential digital artifacts to deal with. > >73, >Don W3FPR > >Jon Kåre Hellan wrote: > > Hi > > > > I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend > > getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 > > MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot > > cheaper, though. > > > > Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? > > > > 73 > > Jon LA4RT > > > > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
> > What is the rating of my Techtronics 475? > We used them at work for required adjustments to tolerances > of 2/10 nanoseconds. > > Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP For any common model you can easily find info on the web if you aren't sure. Bandwidth for scopes is like horsepower for a performance car. It'll be the first spec that's mentioned. A handy rule of thumb for the 10% to 90% rise time is ln(9)/(2*pi*bandwidth) = 0.35/bandwidth. So a 200 MHz scope has an inherent rise time of a bit less than 2 ns. The 485 comes in at an even 1.0 ns and I always suspected that's why they targeted 350 MHz for its bandwidth spec. Exercise for the reader: derive this formula assuming a single pole filter response. 73 and thanks for listening Carl WS7L K3 #486 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 11:31 -0500, Matt Palmer wrote: > ... Since I grew up with a > infiinium, i've never had a problem seeing and removing aliasing > errors and others, but you have to have a decent sense for what to > expect to see, and know which way to turn what knobs to make it look > right. (like adjusting sample rate etc.) One nice thing about the HP54600A is that, although the sample rate is only 20 MHz, they dither the sample phase on successive sweeps, which achieves a much higher effective sample rate. You can view signals well over 100 MHz without distortion. That only works on repetitive signals. For single-shot events you are limited to the 20 MHz sample rate, which means signals over the 10 MHz Nyquist frequency are aliased. Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
I would stay away from early hp digitals, they are nothing but trouble, just take my word on this one, you are better off with a 2430 (might have dyslexic on the number) The new digital lunchboxes are nice too, and if you know what you are doing you have no problems, I attribute the 'old timers' being wary of them to not knowing how to properly use them. Since I grew up with a infiinium, i've never had a problem seeing and removing aliasing errors and others, but you have to have a decent sense for what to expect to see, and know which way to turn what knobs to make it look right. (like adjusting sample rate etc.) Matt W8ESE Former KD8DAO http://blog.MattIsKichigai.com On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: > On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 08:13 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > >> I agree with Don, I like analog scopes. Any time a signal is taken to bits >> (literally!) and then reassembled there are display artifacts and some >> accuracy of the waveform is lost but, you're quite right, analog scopes are >> *big* and heavy. > > I also dislike most digital oscilloscopes. On most of them, it is > obvious that the user interface was designed by a software person, hot a > hardware engineer. I hate having to search through multiple layers of > menus to access some simple function. > > However, the HP54600-series oscilloscopes are different. They combine > the advantages of digital with the look and feel of an analog scope. > There are separate knobs for all the most-used functions. The design > team was lead by Bob Witte K0NR who knows a thing or two about what a > hardware engineer wants in an oscilloscope. > > HP/Agilent no longer sells the 546XX, but you can occasionally find one > on the used market. Scanning down the list on Ebay I see an HP54620A > (version with built-in logic analyzer) with a starting bid of $200, two > 54610B's (500 MHz, dual channel) starting at $700 and $725, HP54600A > with optional GPIB module $500, etc. > >> Again, good digital scopes are the more expensive scopes. > > Generally true. I bought mine brand new (with employee discount) some > years ago and have never regretted it. For once in my life, it's nice > to have a no-compromise, reliable piece of test equipment. > > By the way, if you do decide on analog, the HP1740 100 MHz scope is a > very good choice. (Much better than most of the analog scopes HP came > out with over the years.) They often show up on Ebay. > > Al N1AL > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 08:13 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > I agree with Don, I like analog scopes. Any time a signal is taken to bits > (literally!) and then reassembled there are display artifacts and some > accuracy of the waveform is lost but, you're quite right, analog scopes are > *big* and heavy. I also dislike most digital oscilloscopes. On most of them, it is obvious that the user interface was designed by a software person, hot a hardware engineer. I hate having to search through multiple layers of menus to access some simple function. However, the HP54600-series oscilloscopes are different. They combine the advantages of digital with the look and feel of an analog scope. There are separate knobs for all the most-used functions. The design team was lead by Bob Witte K0NR who knows a thing or two about what a hardware engineer wants in an oscilloscope. HP/Agilent no longer sells the 546XX, but you can occasionally find one on the used market. Scanning down the list on Ebay I see an HP54620A (version with built-in logic analyzer) with a starting bid of $200, two 54610B's (500 MHz, dual channel) starting at $700 and $725, HP54600A with optional GPIB module $500, etc. > Again, good digital scopes are the more expensive scopes. Generally true. I bought mine brand new (with employee discount) some years ago and have never regretted it. For once in my life, it's nice to have a no-compromise, reliable piece of test equipment. By the way, if you do decide on analog, the HP1740 100 MHz scope is a very good choice. (Much better than most of the analog scopes HP came out with over the years.) They often show up on Ebay. Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 10:20 +0200, Jon Kåre Hellan wrote: > Hi > > I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend > getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 > MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot > cheaper, though. > > Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? > > 73 > Jon LA4RT Of course, it depends on what you plan to use the scope for. For troubleshooting high-speed digital circuits you want the widest bandwidth possible. Overshoot and ringing on a bus line might be hard to see with a 100 MHz scope and impossible with a 50 MHz scope. On the other hand, the frequency response doesn't drop off a cliff right at the specified bandwidth. For example, my 100 MHz scope works just fine for looking at narrow-band signals in the two meter band. The response is down a couple dB but for narrow-band signals that's not a problem. It's an HP54600A digital scope, but I doubt an analog scope would be much different in this respect. A graph of the frequency response (measured with an HP8656B signal generator) is posted here: http://www.cds1.net/~n1al/ham/54600.GIF As you can see, this "100 MHz" scope is usable up through at least the 220 MHz band (at -7 dB). Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Jim, You have to know the 'scope specs. The Tek 475 scope is a 200 MHz 'scope, the 465 is 150 MHz. The frequency rating of the probes will also provide an upper limit. The resolution on the time axis is quite a different consideration than the frequency rating for the amplitude (and rise time) response of the vertical amplifier. Normally, the 'scope's frequency is stated as the response for the vertical amplifier. 73, Don W3FPR Jim Miller KG0KP wrote: > How do you know what the frequency rating of a scope is? > What is the rating of my Techtronics 475? > We used them at work for required adjustments to tolerances of 2/10 > nanoseconds. > > Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Don covered it nicely. Unless you know you'll never use the scope for anything but routine linearity checking and other simple measurements in the HF range, get as much bandwidth as the budget allows in both the oscilloscope itself and the probes. The point is that if you put a 50 MHz square wave into a 50 MHz scope, it'll look a lot more like a sine wave than a square wave because the 'scope simply won't be able to see the fast rise and fall of the square wave and will display it with the leading and trailing edges rounded off. For accurate rendition of a waveform - especially a 'square wave' - I want a scope with a bandwidth of 10 times the waveform frequency. Lower bandwidth scopes will also fail to disclose VHF oscillations that easily occur in circuits, even HF circuits or voltage regulator circuits with inadequate bypassing. The 'scope simply won't see such a signal well above its bandwidth limit or, at best, minimize it by showing it at a much lower amplitude that it really has. So a low bandwidth scope may show you a nice, clean signal instead of what is really there. I agree with Don, I like analog scopes. Any time a signal is taken to bits (literally!) and then reassembled there are display artifacts and some accuracy of the waveform is lost but, you're quite right, analog scopes are *big* and heavy. Again, good digital scopes are the more expensive scopes. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Hi I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot cheaper, though. Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? 73 Jon LA4RT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
How do you know what the frequency rating of a scope is? What is the rating of my Techtronics 475? We used them at work for required adjustments to tolerances of 2/10 nanoseconds. Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP - Original Message - From: "Don Wilhelm" To: "Jon Kåre Hellan" Cc: "'Elecraft List'" Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes Jon, For use on the HF bands, go for a 'scope rated at 100 MHz or higher, and be certain to use probes that are also rated for 100 MHz or more. The frequency rating of a 'scope is the point where the vertical response is down 3 dB, so you will not be able to do valid voltage measurements at frequencies beyond about 1/3 of the frequency rating of the 'scope. The 50 mHz 'scope will give valid voltage measurements up to about 16 MHz while the 100 MHz 'scope will be good up through 30 MHz. If good measurement of voltages is not important to you, then the 50 MHz 'scope may be OK, even though the voltage (signal amplitude) may be attenuated, it will still show a proper waveform up to its rated frequency and often beyond - unless the input waveform is a pulse or a square wave where the rise time is one of the important parameters - for most amateur radio purposes, that is not important. Analog vs. Digital - no comment, but I prefer the real time analog 'scope, no potential digital artifacts to deal with. 73, Don W3FPR Jon Kåre Hellan wrote: > Hi > > I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend > getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 > MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot > cheaper, though. > > Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? > > 73 > Jon LA4RT > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Jon, For use on the HF bands, go for a 'scope rated at 100 MHz or higher, and be certain to use probes that are also rated for 100 MHz or more. The frequency rating of a 'scope is the point where the vertical response is down 3 dB, so you will not be able to do valid voltage measurements at frequencies beyond about 1/3 of the frequency rating of the 'scope. The 50 mHz 'scope will give valid voltage measurements up to about 16 MHz while the 100 MHz 'scope will be good up through 30 MHz. If good measurement of voltages is not important to you, then the 50 MHz 'scope may be OK, even though the voltage (signal amplitude) may be attenuated, it will still show a proper waveform up to its rated frequency and often beyond - unless the input waveform is a pulse or a square wave where the rise time is one of the important parameters - for most amateur radio purposes, that is not important. Analog vs. Digital - no comment, but I prefer the real time analog 'scope, no potential digital artifacts to deal with. 73, Don W3FPR Jon Kåre Hellan wrote: > Hi > > I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend > getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 > MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot > cheaper, though. > > Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? > > 73 > Jon LA4RT > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Hi I'm thinking about buying a scope. I've seen many people recommend getting an old analog scope, but they're big! I borrowed a compact 100 MHz digital scope from work, and it was nice. 50 MHz scopes are a lot cheaper, though. Will I regret getting a 50 MHz scope instead of a 100 MHz one? 73 Jon LA4RT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Oscilloscopes?
I'm considering getting an oscilloscope and could use suggestions for an inexpensive used scope. Has anyone used the Pico Tech software scopes? The entry level USB scope runs about $250. Rich NU6T ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
By the way, one more comment on Tek scopes .. I loved the 475, REALLY loved the 2465, but I can barely tolerate Tek's DSOs... Maybe I'm just to dumb to use them, but I think the menu structures in most of the Tektronix digital scopes are non-intuitive and obtuse. If you want a really neat digital scope, look for a LeCroy. When I bought DSOs for my last company, I had HP, Tektronix, Philips, and LeCroy bring scopes in for me to play with. I refused to look at any of the user manuals. If I needed the manual to get basic use out of the scope, I didn't want the scope. The LeCroy won hands down for ease of use. I'd REALLY like to get a 350MHz or so LeCroy for home use! jim ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Poor John asked if he could use spectrogram as an oscilloscope, and that's morphed into recommendations to buy a 400 MHz scope! In my last job I was the video amplifier design guy, and in that role I designed video amplifiers to drive CRTs in high-resolution industrial computer displays. Over the years, resolution requirements constantly increased so the last generations of products had CRT cathode drive requirements on the order of 60Vp-p with <3nSec rise and fall times. As I recall, the last video amp I did was around 2.7nSec at 60 Volts drive. (now you know why CRT monitors can cause serious RFI ... shielding was one of the biggest challenges). My point is, I am familiar with and appreciate the need for fast oscilloscopes when the application requires it . My favorite was the 475 until we got 2465's, and I really liked the 2465. But I always felt the 2465 was more fragile than the old 465 - 475 series stuff, and the things that broke in the 2465's were always expens ive and proprietary. If you were going to buy one for home use, it might be easier to keep the older stuff going because they're tougher and fewer of the parts are made of unobtainium. But .. my REAL point here ... for home use for the average hobby user, we almost never really NEED a 400 MHz or even 250 MHz scope. My home scope for years was a Tek 455 with 50MHz bandwidth. I did design development work at home and fixed a zillion things with that scope and rarely found the 50 Mhz bandwidth a problem. For the less demanding hobbiest, it might NEVER be a problem. Of course you have to apply judgement and realize the limitations of the instrument, but that's ALWAYS the case with any measurement. People tend to think they have to always have the highest performance and anything less is inadequate (hence the internet surfers with 3.2GHz Pentium IV computers and a Gig of Ram to send e-mail) but if you hold off buying a scope because you can't afford the 250 MHz or 400 Mhz scope that you THINK you need ... be aware you can do 99% of your oscilloscope work with a decent 50Mhz scope. If you're designing fast logic or think you need to look at the carrier of a VHF transmitter, you need speed, but for fixin' radios, it's rare. Because of the "gotta have the fastest" mentality, the old 455's and such are real bargains, and will serve the average hobbiest well. Any scope is better than no scope. I can't imagine life without an oscilloscope in my basement. I have four ... including a 922 (15MHz??) that's my favorite for pick it up and go to help a friend fix something ... Just my humble opinion based on some years of experience ... Jim AB4CZ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
The 475 I have is working well, so far. Have not noticed any problems. When I brought it home I turned it on and let it run for 3 days straight. I wanted to see if it was going to have any power supply problems right up front. I keep the trace just bright enough to see well, when I am using it. It has an orange colored backlight for the scale that really helps bring that out, as well. The ones I have seen for sale, are asking a whole lot more than FREE, Don. If you know of any for free, let me know where and I'll go pick 'em up. Stan Rife W5EWA Houston, TX K2 S/N 4216 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Brown Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:36 PM To: Ron D'Eau Claire; Alexandra Carter Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram) Hi Be careful buying older Tek scopes. Many of the repair parts are not available any more. You may get lucky and never need to repair one of these scopes but many of the parts were proprietary made custom for Tek or in the case of some of the IC's and CRT's were made only by Tek in there own fab. I worked for Tektronix for many years as a field maintenance instructor in the test and measurement division. My specialty was the 7000 series and the portable scopes among others. The reason the 7000 series is so cheap on Ebay is the problem of getting repair parts. The most common problem is with the cam switches and attenuators in both the 7000 and the 465 and 475 scopes. The 485 is even a generation earlier than the 465 or 475 so I would not ever consider one these scopes unless it had a good CRT, is in excellent condition and was virtually free. It also takes a real expert and some special equipment to properly tweak a 485 so it will meet specs. The 7000 series may be OK if you can buy two for a few hundred dollars. The second one for parts. I have a friend with a cal lab that has a warehouse full of broken 7000's that he uses for parts to keep the stuff he has under contract. Tek has a policy that they do not guarantee parts support seven years after a product is discontinued. The 465, 475 and most of the 7000 has exceeded that by two and the 485 by three However I personally own a 2465 and can highly recommend it. It is 400 Mhz four channel with both 1 meg ohm and 50 ohm inputs with dual timebase. This was the last of the really great analog scopes Tek made. This scope sold for over $5000 in the mid 80's and was worth every penny. I have seen them on Ebay for well under $1000 (I paid $800 for mine a couple of years ago) I know that is a lot of money to spend on a scope used for hobby work but a new scope with much less capability will cost as much or more. Ron Is correct on the bandwidth specification. Scopes are rated at 3 db down at the rated bandwidth. This means a 100 MHz scope can measure a one volt pk to pk 100 MHz sine wave at .707 volts and still be in spec. Also the probes are rated at a max bandwidth as well. If you use a 100 MHz probe on a 200 MHz scope then you will only have a 100 Mhz bandwidth at best Don Brown KD5NDB - Original Message - From: "Alexandra Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram) > Tektronix 475, baby! The 465 is OK, and the 485 a real 400MHz work of > analog scope art I hope to own someday. Then if you're really serious > you have a 7000-series mainframe and a lot of plugins hehe. > > A really good tutorial on scopes is Tektronix's The XYZ's Of Using A > Scope which they used to give out, now you can download it from the net > and the recent versions have a bunch of stupid stuff about their > digital scopes - they tell such beautiful lies, stick to analog. > > 73 de Alex NS6Y. > > On Jan 23, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > > > Jim, AB4CZ gave you an excellent summary. > > > > If you think you'd like to use the 'scope for general bench work to > > look at > > waveforms, etc., on HF gear, then look for one with at least a 200 MHz > > bandwidth. ...If you try to observe signals on a narrower > > bandwidth oscilloscope, the > > higher-frequency information is simply lost. > > At today's Hamfest prices, the price difference between a basic > > waveform > > monitor and a good general purpose scope is often small, > > Ron AC7AC > > ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mai
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Yes, but in actuality, you can very often pick up a good 465 or 475 for $100 or so, take it home, clean it up, and it will work for you for years. That's hard to beat. 73 de Alex NS6Y. On Jan 23, 2006, at 8:36 PM, Don Brown wrote: Hi Be careful buying older Tek scopes. Many of the repair parts are not available any more. You may get lucky and never need to repair one of these scopes but many of the parts were proprietary made custom for Tek or in the case of some of the IC's and CRT's were made only by Tek in there own fab. I worked for Tektronix for many years as a field maintenance instructor in the test and measurement division. My specialty was the 7000 series and the portable scopes among others. The reason the 7000 series is so cheap on Ebay is the problem of getting repair parts. The most common problem is with the cam switches and attenuators in both the 7000 and the 465 and 475 scopes. The 485 is even a generation earlier than the 465 or 475 so I would not ever consider one these scopes unless it had a good CRT, is in excellent condition and was virtually free. It also takes a real expert and some special equipment to properly tweak a 485 so it will meet specs. The 7000 series may be OK if you can buy two for a few hundred dollars. The second one for parts. I have a friend with a cal lab that has a warehouse full of broken 7000's that he uses for parts to keep the stuff he has under contract. Tek has a policy that they do not guarantee parts support seven years after a product is discontinued. The 465, 475 and most of the 7000 has exceeded that by two and the 485 by three However I personally own a 2465 and can highly recommend it. It is 400 Mhz four channel with both 1 meg ohm and 50 ohm inputs with dual timebase. This was the last of the really great analog scopes Tek made. This scope sold for over $5000 in the mid 80's and was worth every penny. I have seen them on Ebay for well under $1000 (I paid $800 for mine a couple of years ago) I know that is a lot of money to spend on a scope used for hobby work but a new scope with much less capability will cost as much or more. Ron Is correct on the bandwidth specification. Scopes are rated at 3 db down at the rated bandwidth. This means a 100 MHz scope can measure a one volt pk to pk 100 MHz sine wave at .707 volts and still be in spec. Also the probes are rated at a max bandwidth as well. If you use a 100 MHz probe on a 200 MHz scope then you will only have a 100 Mhz bandwidth at best Don Brown KD5NDB - Original Message - From: "Alexandra Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram) Tektronix 475, baby! The 465 is OK, and the 485 a real 400MHz work of analog scope art I hope to own someday. Then if you're really serious you have a 7000-series mainframe and a lot of plugins hehe. A really good tutorial on scopes is Tektronix's The XYZ's Of Using A Scope which they used to give out, now you can download it from the net and the recent versions have a bunch of stupid stuff about their digital scopes - they tell such beautiful lies, stick to analog. 73 de Alex NS6Y. On Jan 23, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Jim, AB4CZ gave you an excellent summary. If you think you'd like to use the 'scope for general bench work to look at waveforms, etc., on HF gear, then look for one with at least a 200 MHz bandwidth. ...If you try to observe signals on a narrower bandwidth oscilloscope, the higher-frequency information is simply lost. At today's Hamfest prices, the price difference between a basic waveform monitor and a good general purpose scope is often small, Ron AC7AC ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Hi In interesting piece of trivia. The DM44 sensor in the temperature probe is a 2n transistor. The circuit is similar to the temperature measuring circuit in the KPA100 used to monitor the heat sink temperature. Don Brown KD5NDB - Original Message - From: "Stan Rife" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram) > I have a 475 with the DM44 option, and a scad of different probes. > It is on "semi-permanent" loan from my company (they have no need for it > any longer). I have never used the DM44, but what looks interesting is > that it will measure temperature in degrees C. I have the temperature > probe and will get around to trying that out one of these days. I have > never used an oscilloscope before about a couple of months ago, but I am > trying to learn. The tutorial that Tek has on their website is pretty > informative. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Hi Be careful buying older Tek scopes. Many of the repair parts are not available any more. You may get lucky and never need to repair one of these scopes but many of the parts were proprietary made custom for Tek or in the case of some of the IC's and CRT's were made only by Tek in there own fab. I worked for Tektronix for many years as a field maintenance instructor in the test and measurement division. My specialty was the 7000 series and the portable scopes among others. The reason the 7000 series is so cheap on Ebay is the problem of getting repair parts. The most common problem is with the cam switches and attenuators in both the 7000 and the 465 and 475 scopes. The 485 is even a generation earlier than the 465 or 475 so I would not ever consider one these scopes unless it had a good CRT, is in excellent condition and was virtually free. It also takes a real expert and some special equipment to properly tweak a 485 so it will meet specs. The 7000 series may be OK if you can buy two for a few hundred dollars. The second one for parts. I have a friend with a cal lab that has a warehouse full of broken 7000's that he uses for parts to keep the stuff he has under contract. Tek has a policy that they do not guarantee parts support seven years after a product is discontinued. The 465, 475 and most of the 7000 has exceeded that by two and the 485 by three However I personally own a 2465 and can highly recommend it. It is 400 Mhz four channel with both 1 meg ohm and 50 ohm inputs with dual timebase. This was the last of the really great analog scopes Tek made. This scope sold for over $5000 in the mid 80's and was worth every penny. I have seen them on Ebay for well under $1000 (I paid $800 for mine a couple of years ago) I know that is a lot of money to spend on a scope used for hobby work but a new scope with much less capability will cost as much or more. Ron Is correct on the bandwidth specification. Scopes are rated at 3 db down at the rated bandwidth. This means a 100 MHz scope can measure a one volt pk to pk 100 MHz sine wave at .707 volts and still be in spec. Also the probes are rated at a max bandwidth as well. If you use a 100 MHz probe on a 200 MHz scope then you will only have a 100 Mhz bandwidth at best Don Brown KD5NDB - Original Message - From: "Alexandra Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram) > Tektronix 475, baby! The 465 is OK, and the 485 a real 400MHz work of > analog scope art I hope to own someday. Then if you're really serious > you have a 7000-series mainframe and a lot of plugins hehe. > > A really good tutorial on scopes is Tektronix's The XYZ's Of Using A > Scope which they used to give out, now you can download it from the net > and the recent versions have a bunch of stupid stuff about their > digital scopes - they tell such beautiful lies, stick to analog. > > 73 de Alex NS6Y. > > On Jan 23, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > > > Jim, AB4CZ gave you an excellent summary. > > > > If you think you'd like to use the 'scope for general bench work to > > look at > > waveforms, etc., on HF gear, then look for one with at least a 200 MHz > > bandwidth. ...If you try to observe signals on a narrower > > bandwidth oscilloscope, the > > higher-frequency information is simply lost. > > At today's Hamfest prices, the price difference between a basic > > waveform > > monitor and a good general purpose scope is often small, > > Ron AC7AC > > ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
I have a 475 with the DM44 option, and a scad of different probes. It is on "semi-permanent" loan from my company (they have no need for it any longer). I have never used the DM44, but what looks interesting is that it will measure temperature in degrees C. I have the temperature probe and will get around to trying that out one of these days. I have never used an oscilloscope before about a couple of months ago, but I am trying to learn. The tutorial that Tek has on their website is pretty informative. Stan Rife W5EWA Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Alex NS6Y wrote: Tektronix 475, baby! The 465 is OK, and the 485 a real 400MHz work of analog scope art I hope to own someday... -- Yep, Tek scopes are the most popular and they are very good. In the 1970's when I was running a television production studio we had to smuggle in our Tek waveform monitors because the facility was owned by Hewlett-Packard! Hewlett-Packard scopes are also EXCELLENT instruments though - at least their general-purpose lab scopes, which is what I was talking about here. When I was working in various labs I liked Tek scopes primarily because of their extreme flexibility, thanks to all of those expensive plug-ins , and because they carefully kept the control layout much the same from model to model. Grab that big knob over there and it was always the time base control, no matter which Tek scope you were using. HP wasn't so consistent with their panel layouts and they don't have all the swappable plug-ins that Tek used. However, HP made its name as a lab instrument company for almost 40 years before they touched the computer business in the 1970's with world-class lab gear. One advantage of their 'scopes for the Ham today is that they are often a lot cheaper than the Tek scopes, feature for feature and per megacycle of bandwidth simple because the Tek scopes are so popular. I have an HP1740 sitting on my bench that was built in the 1970's. It's an analog scope, which I prefer, and it's still tickin' like the day it was built, almost 40 years later! Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Alex NS6Y wrote: Tektronix 475, baby! The 465 is OK, and the 485 a real 400MHz work of analog scope art I hope to own someday... -- Yep, Tek scopes are the most popular and they are very good. In the 1970's when I was running a television production studio we had to smuggle in our Tek waveform monitors because the facility was owned by Hewlett-Packard! Hewlett-Packard scopes are also EXCELLENT instruments though - at least their general-purpose lab scopes, which is what I was talking about here. When I was working in various labs I liked Tek scopes primarily because of their extreme flexibility, thanks to all of those expensive plug-ins , and because they carefully kept the control layout much the same from model to model. Grab that big knob over there and it was always the time base control, no matter which Tek scope you were using. HP wasn't so consistent with their panel layouts and they don't have all the swappable plug-ins that Tek used. However, HP made its name as a lab instrument company for almost 40 years before they touched the computer business in the 1970's with world-class lab gear. One advantage of their 'scopes for the Ham today is that they are often a lot cheaper than the Tek scopes, feature for feature and per megacycle of bandwidth simple because the Tek scopes are so popular. I have an HP1740 sitting on my bench that was built in the 1970's. It's an analog scope, which I prefer, and it's still tickin' like the day it was built, almost 40 years later! Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Tektronix 475, baby! The 465 is OK, and the 485 a real 400MHz work of analog scope art I hope to own someday. Then if you're really serious you have a 7000-series mainframe and a lot of plugins hehe. A really good tutorial on scopes is Tektronix's The XYZ's Of Using A Scope which they used to give out, now you can download it from the net and the recent versions have a bunch of stupid stuff about their digital scopes - they tell such beautiful lies, stick to analog. 73 de Alex NS6Y. On Jan 23, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Jim, AB4CZ gave you an excellent summary. If you think you'd like to use the 'scope for general bench work to look at waveforms, etc., on HF gear, then look for one with at least a 200 MHz bandwidth. ...If you try to observe signals on a narrower bandwidth oscilloscope, the higher-frequency information is simply lost. At today's Hamfest prices, the price difference between a basic waveform monitor and a good general purpose scope is often small, Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Oscilloscopes (WAS: spectrogram)
Jim, AB4CZ gave you an excellent summary. If you think you'd like to use the 'scope for general bench work to look at waveforms, etc., on HF gear, then look for one with at least a 200 MHz bandwidth. Smaller bandwidth scopes are fine for a simple check on your transmitter waveform, but one of the greatest advantages to a scope is being able to see things you can't see otherwise - parasitics, the transition waveforms when keying, edges of clock signals, etc. While the fundamental frequency of the waveform may only be a few MHz, the frequency of the squiggles and other artifacts on the signal is much, much higher. For those applications a general 'rule of thumb' is to use a 'scope with at least 10 times the highest frequency you'll be interested in, the higher the better. If you try to observe signals on a narrower bandwidth oscilloscope, the higher-frequency information is simply lost. The displayed waveform will look much cleaner that it really is! For example, if you try to observe a 50 MHz square wave on a 50 MHz oscilloscope it'll show you a nice, clean sine wave, not a square wave. All of the higher-frequency information that makes the edges of the square wave sharp will be lost. To get a decent representation of the actual waveform you'd need at least a 500 MHz oscilloscope. At today's Hamfest prices, the price difference between a basic waveform monitor and a good general purpose scope is often small, and with the latter you have an instrument that will prove itself quite valuable over time if you enjoy tinkering with circuits on the bench. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
The real key to using an oscilloscope for debug is that bit of knowledge that comes from study of the circuit that you are trying to troubleshoot. If one does not know what the signal should look like in the first place, the only thing an oscilloscope will show is a bunch of 'pretty pictures'. A complete service manual with typical displays shown would go a long way, but even that needs to be coupled with some generalized study so the user will have a good grasp of the tolerances to be expected and the specific settings on the K2 which will produce those typical displays. That kind of information becomes second nature to the experienced technician/engineer, but I know from experience that it can befuddle the newcomer (example - the number of questions on this reflector wondering about not finding exactly the voltage reading stated in the K2 manual) who does not have a grasp of the permissible tolerances. One way to gain some of that experience is by building something for your study: Build up some oscillator circuits (see the theory section of the ARRL Handbook - every ham should have one), and probe around with both the 'scope and a DVM while asking yourself "Do I understand what I am observing and why?". After a bit of that and similar learning experiences, you will find yourself an 'old hand' at doing troubleshooting on most any equipment. 73, Don W3FPR Life is what happens when you are making other plans ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft You must subscribe to post. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, Unsub etc): http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Oscilloscopes
Hi all, When I first researched buying an oscilloscope, I tried EBAY. I found a nice 50-MHz Tektronix's and bought it. Unfortunately, it must have fallen off the truck because it was pretty much beat-up too badly to work. My next stop was the local instrument rental shop. They had o-scopes of every make and model. I bought a Tektronix 2335, 100Mhz scope that looks like it just came out of the box for $200. It works like a charm. A trip to the local electronics shop and I had a couple Probemaster 1x/10x probes for $37 each. Is it the best product? I doubt it but it does beat using a DMM alone. Try your local instrument rental shop...you might be pleasantly surprised. They regularly sell off gear as they get newer gear in. The o-scope allowed me to troubleshoot my not-yet completed K2 and find a miss-wired toroidal transformer by allowing me to "see" problems with my waveform. Each day I learn a little more about the scope...mostly from reading messages on the Elecraft Reflector...Better than going back to school. 73's de Terry Southern - KC0QZX In a message dated 6/23/2004 2:10:23 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks Ron for your clear answer. I understand, I think this is will be fine for me for now. You know higher they can take, higher will be the price also. This scope is actually around 500$ CDN That the maximum I can affort for a scope for now... But maybe in the futur, I could get a hand on a better scope (maybe a used one) for a good price. Anyway, for now, I think it will be very handy, at least for my understanding of a scope and for basic readings I need. Another good message I will keep in my files !!! Thanks again. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft You must subscribe to post. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, Unsub etc): http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft page: http://www.elecraft.com
