Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
This is GREAT NEWS for those of us who use noisy amplifiers! This development will greatly simplify my own process of trying to integrate my K3 into the station here, since I can leave the current microphone and noise gate setup for the IC746 largely intact, and just use the new K2 Pro-Set directly into the K3 :-) I look forward to trying out a noise gate function in a future firmware release! VY 73, Lance Lyle Johnson wrote: Hello Bob! I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already :-) 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:03:56 +, LANCE COLLISTER wrote: This is GREAT NEWS for those of us who use noisy amplifiers! There are other solutions. First, don't turn the mic gain up so high, or use so much processing(compression). 10 dB of processing is enough -- more tends to sound bad. Second, roll off the low end octaves that contribute nothing to communications. In the K3, the 50 Hz and 100 Hz filters should be all the way down. Third, use sound absorbing materials in your shack to reduce the liveness that amplifies the noise (and makes it difficult to copy on your speaker). Some absorption on the surfaces around the noisy fans should have a high priority. Fourth, a directional mic will reject a lot of noise. The Appendix on Audio For Ham Radio that is part of my RFI Tutorial lists a bunch of good directional mics. http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf Downward expansion can be a problem solver if done well, but don't hold out a lot of hope for downward expansion in DSP to solve your problem. It is notoriously difficult to get DSP to sound good with dynamics processing. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
You learn something new all the time on this reflector. I previously thought a downward expander was a recession fighting scheme employed by the Federal Reserve. I guess not Bruce - W8FU -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Wiley Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:16 PM To: Lyle Johnson Cc: 'Elecraft Group' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540 I give up. What is a downward expander? It that the same as a compressor? Or is it something that has a crossover point that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already _ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
Hello Bob! I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already :-) 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
I give up. What is a downward expander? It that the same as a compressor? Or is it something that has a crossover point that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already _ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already :-) Further to this, I find using VOX with a short timeout (0.3 sec) provides an almost gate, and allows fast voice break in. It also does not generate any distortion of the low-amplitude portions of the transmit audio that a downward expander inherently creates. With the fast attack action of the K3 VOX, such short hold times are practical. Enjoy! Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
google is a wonderful tool... http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/temas/dynamics-processors-noisegates_en.shtml Downward expander. This type of unit works like the opposite of a compressor, and provides a ratio control or attenuation slope. That way the signal is attenuated more highly the lower the signal level is. In fact, if the threshold is set high enough, we could expand the dynamics of the signal, increasing its dynamic range, though this is not normally done. The attenuation ratio works in an equivalent way to that of the compressor, defining the amount of a attenuation (compression) that is applied to the signal. These ratios are expressed in dB, so that, for example, 1:6, means a signal that is 1 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 6 dB below it, while a signal 3 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 18 dB below it. Likewise, a 1:3 (one to three) means a signal 1 dB below the threshold will be attenuated 2 dB (as the level will go from -1 dB to -3 dB; we use a negative sign as these levels are below the threshold, which is the 0 dB reference in this case). With a ratio of 1:10 and higher, the expander is considered to work as a pure noise gate, though an ideal gate would have a theoretical ratio of 1:infinity (any level below the threshold would be totally muted). ~Iain Jim Wiley wrote on 09/ 1/08 11:16 AM: I give up. What is a downward expander? It that the same as a compressor? Or is it something that has a crossover point that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already _ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
OK, I understand now. The Gates company (of long ago broadcast equipment fame) made a device they called the Level Devil - which worked this way. I had one, and it worked wonders in improving false vox trips. The Level Devil served as a downward expander for signals less than the crossover point, and as a compressor for signals above the threshold. Marvelous gadget - I wish I still had one. - Jim, KL7CC Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM wrote: google is a wonderful tool... http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/temas/dynamics-processors-noisegates_en.shtml Downward expander. This type of unit works like the opposite of a compressor, and provides a ratio control or attenuation slope. That way the signal is attenuated more highly the lower the signal level is. In fact, if the threshold is set high enough, we could expand the dynamics of the signal, increasing its dynamic range, though this is not normally done. The attenuation ratio works in an equivalent way to that of the compressor, defining the amount of a attenuation (compression) that is applied to the signal. These ratios are expressed in dB, so that, for example, 1:6, means a signal that is 1 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 6 dB below it, while a signal 3 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 18 dB below it. Likewise, a 1:3 (one to three) means a signal 1 dB below the threshold will be attenuated 2 dB (as the level will go from -1 dB to -3 dB; we use a negative sign as these levels are below the threshold, which is the 0 dB reference in this case). With a ratio of 1:10 and higher, the expander is considered to work as a pure noise gate, though an ideal gate would have a theoretical ratio of 1:infinity (any level below the threshold would be totally muted). ~Iain Jim Wiley wrote on 09/ 1/08 11:16 AM: I give up. What is a downward expander? It that the same as a compressor? Or is it something that has a crossover point that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already _ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
Jim, see also the paragraph about Noise Gating at the end of the page : http://www.dxatlas.com/VShaper/ 73 to all Geoff G3UCK - Original Message - From: Jim Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lyle Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Elecraft Group' elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540 I give up. What is a downward expander? It that the same as a compressor? Or is it something that has a crossover point that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already _ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
KEEP THE W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate! DO NOT SELL IT ON EBAY!!! I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool to knock down in-shack background noise (like amps, fans, other ops, etc.). The Audio Equalizer built into the W2IHY unit is less important now that the K3 has one, but it still gives you added flexibility in adjusting levels beyond what the K3's built in equalizer gives you. I use my W2IHY Noise Gate and Equalizer with my K3 and it certainly makes a cleaner signal than one without a noise gate. If your shack is perfectly quite, you never turn on the COMP or you never breathe while in a QSO, you don't need a noise gate and eBay is a good place for it. My two cents from Texas, Bob K5WA will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate in front of the K3? Why would you want to? Sell it on EBay! The K3 includes an EXCELLENT audio equalizer that does everything you need and is quite easy to adjust. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
