Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10?
If the idea of needing to use CW to make QRP contacts seems off-putting, you can always use PSK31. It's very popular now, and just as effective as CW at low power levels. In that respect, the K3 with its built in PSK31 support (and built-in CW decoder too) might be the better choice. -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com On 9/25/07, Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another way to look at it is that 10 watts is 10 dB (about 1.5 S-units) below 100 watts. That's enough to make a difference, but not a huge difference in who you can work and when, especially on CW. SSB is perhaps a little more of a challenge, but that might be because I'm a CW op too and only get on SSB on rare occasions. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10?
Just to throw a little theory in here, the ability to extract information from a signal in a noisy environment is a function of both the signal level and the information rate of the signal. CW has a much lower information rate than does SSB (as does PSK, for example), and thus an SSB signal has to have a much higher signal level relative to the noise than does a CW signal to be understood. The 10dB difference in power that 100 watts provides over 10 watts doesn't quite make up the difference in information rate between a CW signal and an SSB signal, but it goes a long way to equalize the difference. Scaling this up, a 100 watt CW signal should be more or less as good a KW SSB signal in terms of understandability in a noisy environment. Bob W1SRB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:13 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10? Another way to look at it is that 10 watts is 10 dB (about 1.5 S-units) below 100 watts. That's enough to make a difference, but not a huge difference in who you can work and when, especially on CW. SSB is perhaps a little more of a challenge, but that might be because I'm a CW op too and only get on SSB on rare occasions. Were I faced with that choice, I'd go for the 10 watt rig with more potential for expansion and performance than the 100 watt rig. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- So, assuming it is one or the other, which do you think would be a better choice for a CW operator who is mostly an east-coast rag chewer with occasional DX chasing and light duty contesting? I'm leaning toward the K3/10 since it can eventually be upgraded to 100 watts, but I wonder if 10 watts (3 dB more than QRP) is enough to keep me happy for a year or so. - Keith N1AS - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10?
Quite so! One can think of it in terms of bandwidth too, since the bandwidth varies in proportion to the data rate. Wider bandwidth signals, such as SSB, can be thought of as spreading the same RF power over a wider frequency expanse of noise, so the S/N suffers. Elecraft designed the K2 with a minimum bandwidth SSB filter to maintain the best possible punch (S/N ratio) while maintaining good intelligibility. It's also important to realize that one can literally work the world regularly running 1 watt or less on CW, so 10 watts of SSB ought to do quite well and, from all reports, it does. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Just to throw a little theory in here, the ability to extract information from a signal in a noisy environment is a function of both the signal level and the information rate of the signal. CW has a much lower information rate than does SSB (as does PSK, for example), and thus an SSB signal has to have a much higher signal level relative to the noise than does a CW signal to be understood. The 10dB difference in power that 100 watts provides over 10 watts doesn't quite make up the difference in information rate between a CW signal and an SSB signal, but it goes a long way to equalize the difference. Scaling this up, a 100 watt CW signal should be more or less as good a KW SSB signal in terms of understandability in a noisy environment. Bob W1SRB ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10?
Keith My favourite rig since 2001 is my ten Watt K2. There's plenty of DX to be worked on 10 Watts of CW, even with my simple wire antennas I've worked dozens of countries out as far as ZL. SSB would be another issue, ten Watts of SSB is hard work compared to ten Watts of CW. Given the improved design of the K3, I would opt for a K3/10 and then upgrade it by adding the QRO PA when you can manage it. If you went the K2/100 route you would always wish you had a K3. Dave, G4AON K1 #1154, K2/10 #1892 and hopefully K3 #200 soon. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10?
Hey Keith, I'm a new ham, so take this for what its worth. I have K2/100 #5099 and it is my first transceiver. I did the split of the KPA100 into the EC2 with the KAT100. This summer I operated almost exclusively outside in my yard with my basic K2 and a small wire doublet up in a tree. I ran 5 watts all summer long and made some really nice contacts and several lengthy rag chews (sometimes condx kept the QSO's short). Most of the time I received Wow as a reply to my power report of 5 watts. My furthest contact was with W7DAX out in Liberty, Utah (I'm near Detroit) with many in the 500 - 700 mile range on mostly 40m during the afternoons. Although I have my K3 in the second order group, my guess is that for casual CW rag chewing and contesting the K2 would suffice (I only say this because I have no experience with other radios). But I am really looking forward to using some of the really nice features (not to mention the better Rx specs) of the K3 I saw demonstrated in Dayton and thoroughly discussed here. If I could only have the basic K3, based on this summer's activity, I would have no problem running it QRP for more than a year. So if QRP might not be your bag, then the K2/100 seems like the best bang for your buck. But if you can deal with QRP for a year, then the K3 looks pretty nice. If solar condx improve starting this year... Obviously, if price is an issue, the K2 fits the bill. I'm sure, as you know, being a previous K2 owner you can't go wrong either way. 73, Dave W8FGU ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10?
Another way to look at it is that 10 watts is 10 dB (about 1.5 S-units) below 100 watts. That's enough to make a difference, but not a huge difference in who you can work and when, especially on CW. SSB is perhaps a little more of a challenge, but that might be because I'm a CW op too and only get on SSB on rare occasions. Were I faced with that choice, I'd go for the 10 watt rig with more potential for expansion and performance than the 100 watt rig. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- So, assuming it is one or the other, which do you think would be a better choice for a CW operator who is mostly an east-coast rag chewer with occasional DX chasing and light duty contesting? I'm leaning toward the K3/10 since it can eventually be upgraded to 100 watts, but I wonder if 10 watts (3 dB more than QRP) is enough to keep me happy for a year or so. - Keith N1AS - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 or K3/10
I would get the K3 for the same reason that Dave gave. If you get the K2 it won't be long before you are wondering about the K3 and you'll probably end up with both. If you get the K3 you can save some money. When everyone starts getting their K3's, you'll be reading about them and that will make it worse. I'm sure we will see comparisons between the K2 and K3. If it's a matter of money, I would get the best that you can afford. If that means waiting a while, then do it. I think that most of us have learned that with any hobby or interest, it pays buy the best you can. This is just my experience and opinion. Gary, N7HTS On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:35:19 -0400 DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith: Not having a K3 in hand, I am just making a best guess, but I would say, based on your self-description as a cw ragchewer, casual DXer, and contester-light, I'd say go for the K2/100. This recommendation takes into account that you want 100 watts. But if you're happy with the K3/10 power level, then you'd be just as happy with the K2/10 power level and then for your style of operation, it should be a no-brainer (get the K2, if cost is a factor). I have a K2 (qrp only) and it is a GREAT cw rig. It is not the BEST rig, but waaay better than the vast majority. For cw ragchewing, I don't think you NEED the neat stuff on the K3, which appeals especially (but not exclusively) to low band DXers and HF contesters. At around $600 for the base K2, it is VERY hard to go wrong and probably completely impossible to have better bang for the buck. IMO + YMMV. de Doug KR2Q ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
